Conference vicki::boats

    Hi Carl,
               I have a VHF ICOM handheld as a backup for my planes
    radio, I would also like a backup for my boats radio.  Too bad
    the LORAN and radio folks don't consider portable units for both
    applications.    From Sunny California.
    
    Dave DeSmit

      
    RE: .1
    
    There IS a portable LORAN unit available.  The latest Overton's 
    catalog lists one on page 16.  It's made by SportNav, and they
    want 349.95 for it.  There are probably other companies with
    a similar product, but Overton's only lists one.
         
    Rick

    re .1
    
    I think they have a simple strategy - If you can afford to be into
    both boats and planes, you can afford both radios.  
    
    If I had to pick one for backup emergency, it would be the aviation
    one.
    
    Don 

    Can someone tell me where I can get a SMR Sea Lab 1000 for $99.95? it
    sounds like something to lok onto. I've wanted to get a hand held unit
    for a long time.
    
    Bob

>    Hi Carl,
>               I have a VHF ICOM handheld as a backup for my planes
>    radio, I would also like a backup for my boats radio.  Too bad
>    the LORAN and radio folks don't consider portable units for both
>    applications.    From Sunny California.
>    
>    Dave DeSmit


Dave,

Its good to hear from you. 

I have been away, even out of touch from NOTES during February.  I am 
almost hooked up with a remote now.  I will be gone March and April as 
well.  The only terminal I can access is an Apple Mac.  i have gotten the 
software etc. Should be up next week.

Sorry it took so long to respond to your note. I see that someone else has 
pointed out that a portable Loran exists.  Actually there are a couple on 
the market.  Someone told me that the portables are not all that reliable 
due to lack of grounding, but then how do they work on aircraft (long 
ground cord?) Ha Ha.

Take care...if you come east this summer we can go out fishing...let me 
know.

Carl Redfield

>    Can someone tell me where I can get a SMR Sea Lab 1000 for $99.95? it
>    sounds like something to lok onto. I've wanted to get a hand held unit
>    for a long time.
>    
I saw it advertised in the Spring '90 catalog of Neptune Trading Corp.

	800-637-0660

they are in Mamaronek, NY

The Sea Lab 1000 is 99.00.  The SMR SL-9000GD with Dual watch/4.5 watts/78 
channels is $159.00.  Both come with battery,charger, belt clip,etc

Sorry for the slow response...I have been away from a terminal for 4 weeks.

Carl

PS I might be interested as well...see if they offer a volume discount.

    re: 6
    Thanks for the info. I'll contact them and see what we can do with a
    volume discount. I have a few friends who are also interested.
    
    Will contact you when I  receive info.
    
    Bob

    Carl, the volume discount on the VHF Sea Lab 1000 Hand Held radio is
    $5.00 more off if you buy six or more.
    
    I guess that makes it $94.95!!!
    
    Bob

    re: .0
    
    What are the disadvantages of a handheld?     Is the low transmit
    power a problem if you're stuck off the coast somewhere?

    I would be interested in one of the hand helds that you are looking
    into . 
    
    

    What is the license requirement for a handheld VHF?
    Can you use your ship's station license? If so, what do you call
    if you are using the handheld in your dinghy and want to call back
    to your main ship? Do you both use the same call signs? Does anybody
    know?
    

As to the call sign....it is the same, but you would add the words "portable
one" to the end of your call sign, e.g.  "this is WTP 8036, portable one on 
channel 16, OVER"

You can have more than one portable and each just becomes the next available
number. Remember that this complies with FCC rules only when the portable is
communicating with the licensed station....except in an emergency.

Hope that helps,
Jerry

    Moved by moderator...
    
================================================================================
Note 904.0                  Looking for VHF Handheld                  No replies
LEVERS::J_HILL                                       12 lines   4-SEP-1991 16:12
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         I have a friend who is looking for a portable HT marine band
    radio.  I've read note 294 with its 128 replies, so I have a start.
    I know about the license details.
    
         Can anyone recommend a radio?  One person suggested Radio Shack,
    but I have no experience with that one.  Does anyone have any idea
    how much a radio might cost, besides what R-S offers?
    
         Even though its handheld its intended purpose is to be a primary
    radio on a sailboat, so a small 1 watt radio might be inadequate.
    
                                                Jonathan

I don't think that R/S sells a VHF handheld, does it? In any case even if it
does there are many better name radios to buy. Look for names like Standard,
and ICOM. You'll find ICOMS to be expensive, but are well rated. I think that
I have a test somewhere of handhelds, I'll see if I can dig it up.

john

    You don't have to go expensive to be well rated. I have been using a
    SeaRanger M780 (3 watt) for 3-4 years and had no problem. I paid $169
    for mine at Bliss. They also have higher powered models.
    
    Some of the low$ brands have had problems. I believe it was
    Proactical Sailor that rated them a few years ago. Some brands went
    off frequency whent they got hot.
    
    Bill
    

My reading of the general consensus is that the ICOM M11 is top of the 
heap, but also on the expensive end - expect to pay about $350 with some 
discounting.  

From personal experience, I can say that ICOMs can take one h*ll of a
beating and still work as they should.  We used several ICOM models in 
open boats at Outward Bound, out on expedition for up to weeks at a time,
and they got dropped, wet, run down, overcharged and dirty.  And used 
regularly, with almost no problems or failures.  

The other aspect of their design which is worth considering is that they
are engineered to transmit at close to full power (6 watts in the case of
a handheld at top XMIT) even when battery voltage starts to drop.  If you
plotted output wattage against battery voltage (as others have), as the
latter goes down, so does the former.  What you want is a radio that will
still put out close to max output till the battery can't handle any more
(<10 v, I believe).  The drop-off curve for ICOM is much flatter than
other brands, which may lose up to half their output power when the
batteries get down below 11.5v. 

Some other brands may offer as good or better price/performance, but if a 
radio can save your life, or someone else's, economy may not be the main 
motivator.

J.

    I have an ICOM M11 that I consider to be the top performer among
    hand-helds. As stated, it is well made, and it puts out close to 6
    watts even with a low battery. If the hand-held is your only radio, I
    would opt for the best. On my 31' boat, in addition to the M11, I have
    an ICOM M100(wheelhouse) and an ICOM M56(bridge). I would recommend
    ICOM highly to all buyers. You won't be disappointed.
    
    Fred Smith
    

    
    I think your friend is making a BIG mistake. A handheld imo is a
    good back up, but should not be a primary radio. DISTANCE is the
    drawback in this case. In a sailboat, a mast mounted antenna
    would be ideal...
    
    JIm.
    

    I have a hand-held VHF that I really keep for emergencey purposes
    in a 21' boat on Lake Champlain. My folks have a scanner in their
    cottage on shore and I occassionally use the VHF to send them a one-way
    message. I read in the recent BOAT/US newsletter about new FCC fines
    for anything which broadcasts which does not have a license. I was not
    aware that this even needed a license but BOAT/US sent me the form ($35
    for 5 years). My question is: do all of you have valid FCC licenses for
    your hand-helds? Do I need to fork over ANOTHER fee for this thing?
    
    Thanks,
    Larry

    
    	Simply put YES if the FCC catches you it is an almost automatic
    $8000 fine.  Also if the Coast Guard finds you with a marine VHF and no
    license you will be fined.  Somewhere in here or the sailing notes
    conference there is a rather lenghty discussion on VHF licenses.
    
    
    Forrest

Yes, you do need a license for any transmitter -- VHF, EPIRB, radar, 
SSB, etc. One license can cover all transmitters -- you just check the 
appropriate boxes on the application form. 

    Absolutely. The fact that it is only a handheld has no significance.
    It still transmits on the marine band. There is no question that a
    license is required, and as a previous noter mentioned, the fines are
    more than steep.
    
    Do other's here license handhelds - yes. I had only a handheld before
    I got my 25watt intalled radio for Christmas, but I had my handheld
    licnesed before I ever plugged it in.
    
    We're talking about 2 federal agencies here USGC and FCC. The FCC is
    probably the less lenient of the two. Last I knew, the maximum fine
    was up to $10,000 for operating an unlicensed radio transmitter - and
    that was many years ago. The $35 is regrettable but necessary.
    
    Bill
    

    
    	One more thing you should check the appropriate regulations but
    even with the license I believe what you are doing is illegal.  One way
    communications in most cases are not allowed....  What you are doing is
    considered one way communication.
    
    
    Forrest

    You catch on real quick that what is what the gov. does it finds ways
    to zap everytime especialy when your a boater.

   Is it the radio that is licensed (station license), the operator licensed,
or both?

thanks,

Al

    The station (the boat) is licensed - for whatever class of radios are
    on the boat. In some situations (commercial etc.) the operator must
    also be licensed but not for a pleasure boat with "ordinary" radio
    equipment.
    
    Bill
    

    Even though it's called a "SHIP STATION LICENSE", it is the
    emitter/transmitter that's being licensed.
    
    You may want to check to see if both can be put on the same license.  I
    have a fixed VHF and a radar on the same one, but a second license for
    my handheld. (don't know if combining all is possible - didn't try)
    
    John

    Doesn't make a difference if its a hand held or mounted rig.  Your
    license will cover BOTH rigs however, (assuming they are transmitting
    on the same band, say marine).
    
    Jeff

    If one wants to look at a fine level of detail: It is actually the
    collection of transmitters that is being licensed under a single
    license which is assigned to the common entity (the boat) which has
    a single entity (the owner/captain/licensee) responsible for its
    proper and lawful operation. I suspect it is very similar to  the
    way they license us in the fire service. There is one one license
    reqiured for the/each "base" station - i.e. fixed transmitter location.
    Large city fire depts that have multiple locations (fire stations)
    have sepatate licenses (and call letters) for each base station.
    Those of us in small towns (1 fire station) have one license that
    covers dozens of transmitters.
     
    Under one license, all mobile and portable (handheld) transmitters
    are covered. In the case of the marine servie, the "fixed" transmitter
    location is "fixed" to a particular vessel.
    
    I believe there is something on the license that indicated that 
    this license pertains to a ship or to an aircraft - so apparently they 
    use the same form and a similar scheme for both.
    
    Bill
    

    If I understand the laws correctly one is NOT allowed to take the
    handheld off the vessel and stand on a beach and transmit.  Is that
    correct?  If the license is for the xmitter ON the boat then the
    xmitter has to BE on the boat to legally transmit.
    
    Jeff

    you must have a station lic. for the handheld and a radiotelephone
    permit for yourself

re .30:

You cannot use any marine VHF ashore without a shore license. As long as
you are afloat (eg, in your dinghy), you can use your handheld. 

re .31:

I believe that the requirement for an operator's permit was dropped some 
years ago. 

    Not only are you not required to have an operator's permit for yourself
    for a pleasure boat - they wouldn't even send me an application for
    one.
    
    According to the FCC, only the boat gets licensed.
    
    Bill
    

In summary:

In the US, if you have a VHF radio, radar, SSB radio, or EPIRB on the vessel,
you must have (and display in a conspicuous location) a valid FCC station
license for that vessel (i.e., you can't move licenses from vessel to vessel).

If, in addition, you have one or more (not sure the limit on the number) of
portable VHF radios (ie.., handhelds), you may use them on the vessel's
tender. The call sign for these remote units is something like the call
sign for the primary vessel, suffixed with "remote unit A" (anyone remember
the exact callsign nomenclature you're supposed to use?).

For operation in US waters, a US registered [recreation, less than n meters in
length, not sure what 'n' is] vessel, does not need the operator to have a
operator's license, nor does the vessel have to maintain a radio log. However,
the radio must monitor channel 16 when it's on and not in active use.

In foreign waters (e.g., Canada), an operator's license may be required (it
is in Canada, or was last time I checked).

You may *never* use a VHF (handheld or fixed) radio from shore or a dock,
unless you have a shore station license. (Step in your tender, and call from
there!)

CB radio is no longer regulated in the US (it *is* in Canada, or was last time
I checked...you need a operator license for it in Canada, but not in the US). 
If you want to talk to your vessel from shore, you may use CB, not VHF. (I say
'no longer regulated', but there are still rules that apply, but there got to
be so many units out there that the FCC threw up their hands in disgust and
dropped the station license).

All shortwave radios (i.e., ham radio) still requires both a station and an
operator's license.

That's what I remember about the rules and regs.

Jeff

    
    	add to .34
    
    	FCC allows boats in the First District to monitor CH 9
    	instead of CH 16 .  Ch 9 is currently a Northeast hailing freq, 
    	which is suppossed to decrease the traffic on CH 16 which is to be 
    	used for hailing and distress.  Notice to Mariners is broadcast
    	on 9 and 16 to switch and listen on 22A.  I sorta think 16 is
    	going to become distress only (I don't think it is now).  
    
    	also - you can designate a VHF as "portable" to receive it's
    	own license for use on any vessel.  FCC form asks for a reason 
    	to define it as portable and I simply said something like
    	"to be used as voluntary safety gear aboard multiple vessels"
    	(so now I have a vessel registered VHF and also a portable
    	 to help decrease the deficit ;-)   )
    
    	FCC is suppossed to "now" be reissuing the Restricted
    	Radiotelephone Operators License ... $35.00 .  I saw that in
    	Boat/US or Offshore or MB&S (or a dream).  
    	
    				- Ed
    

    re: license for VHF operation,
    
    I once had to get a Restricted Radiotelephone Operator License
    (application, exam, fee) for VHF use while I was using my USCG license
    to carry passengers for hire (even 1 or 2).  The radio station vessel
    size and other particulars mattered not at all--the CG required it.  
    
    No recreational boater would ever bother to go through the hassle of 
    getting one voluntarily; the certificate looks terribly plain and 
    unofficial anyway, hardly worth displaying unless required.
    
    J.  
    

    RE: .34 to .36
    
    According to the US Coast Guard's Local Notice to Mariners #30, only
    powered vessels larger than 65.5 feet (20 meters) are required to have
    a licensed operator. Otherwise, only the FCC marine-band station
    license is required to be on board the vessel when underway.

    This note has been dormant for quite a while.  I'd like to buy a
    handheld VHF.  Any recommendations?  The local (Bellevue, WA) Boaters
    World has a Uniden on sale for $119.  Then there is a whole raft of radios
    from $250 and up.  The Uniden is physically bigger.  I'm not really sure how
    to evaluate.   Does anyone know of a recent evaluation of handhelds by
    a boating publication??
    
    Thanks...Kevin