Conference unifix::sailing

Racing or cruising? 

If you are not planning on serious racing, I'd suggest all rope 
halyards. Some of the dacron braids (eg, New England Ropes Sta-Set) 
are quite low stretch. Rope halyards have, for me, several advantages: 

1. I can splice them myself.

2. They can be turned end for end to prolong life.

3. They don't wear sheaves.

4. They don't have meathooks.

Our halyards are six years old and have no noticeable wear. They are not 
the lowest stretch halyards available and do need some tightening along 
about time to reef.

Reeving a new halyard is easy (assuming rope halyards) if the old
halyard is still in place. Get out your sailmaker's palm, a needle, and
the whipping twine. Whip the ends of the new halyard. Butt the one end
of the new halyard to the end of the old halyard that exits from the
side of the mast. Sew together. If you can stand the expense, leave the
shackle on the old halyard. Now you'll have a spare. Pull the new
halyard through the mast with the old halyard. Splice a new shackle on
the end of the new halyard. 

One more suggestion: Buy your halyards about 10 feet too long. Chafe
will most likely occur at the masthead a foot or two from the end of the
halyard. If it does, cut off the end of the halyard when the chafe
becomes serious and splice the shackle on again. 

    One thing that you may want to check is the type of exit sheave
    you have up on the masthead or tangs.  If your boat is set up for
    internal wire halyards, you'll probably have to stay with wire unless
    you want to replace the exit sheave boxes.
    
    I've used the pre-made mail order wire-to-rope halyards and have
    found them to be completely satisfactory.  They're actually better
    than the custom ones the local Marblehead builder normally supplies
    with my one-design boat.  The going rate for a custom slice at one
    Marblehead sailmaker is $45/splice and you supply the rope and wire.
    My cost for a 90' (45' 1/8' wire + 45' 3/8" tail) halyard was less than
    $50.  I think the going rate for 1/8" 7x19 is in excess of $1.00/ft.
    
    If you hven't already done so, you can save a lot of running around
    by purchasing your own nicopress tool.  You'll need this to finish
    the ends of the halyards.  Again, professional riggers are real
    expensive and if anything is mis-measured, it's always the customer's
    fault.  You don't need the big thing that looks like a bolt cutter.
    The small wrench operated one will do.  Also, get a good cable cutter.
    
    Alan's absolutely right about the convenience of rope halyards.
    Your hands and sails will be forever grateful if your setup allows
    their use.  I replaced an external wire halyard on my sailing dinghy
    with all rope and the stretch isn't as bad as I had been lead to
    believe.  For a larger boat, the sails themselves will stretch in
    a breeze so you'll have to tighten the strings anyway.
    
    If you're stuck with wire, I've found the following to be generally
    useful practices:
    
    	To avoid meathooks, don't let the wire touch anything.  Avoid
    	letting it twirl around the forestay and don't put tension on
    	the jib halyard if there is any resistance when you haul it
    	up.  You'll end up with a slinky toy otherwise.
    
    	Before attaching a halyard to the sail, hold it out and sight
    	up the wire to the sheave.  Work out any twists you see or feel
    	before attaching the shackle.  If the shackle twists against
    	the head cringle while yor're raising the sail, lower the sail,
    	disconnect the shackle, untwist once more and start over.
    
    	In the Spring, make sure your sheave bushings haven't seized
    	and oil them often during the season.
    
    	Raise your halyards by hand straight out of the lower sheave
    	without any turns around the winch until the weight becomes
    	too great.  You'll feel any twisting much more readily and you'll
    	allow any twists that are present to work themselves out.
    
    	To minimize deterioration of the splice itself, do not cleat
    	the halyard with the splice resting on the sheave, the winch
    	drum, and especially not the cleat.  On my own boat I leave
    	splice between the sheave and the drum but I only have a blade
    	jib and the masthead halyard lock takes the weight of my main.
    	If you have big sails and if the wire must go on the winch,
    	put the splice between the drum and the cleat and have the max
    	distance on either side of the splice.
    
    	At anchor run the jib halyards out to the bow pulpit.  Besides
    	being quieter, there are fewer things to rub against there.
     	
    Please excuse my didacticism.  I've been paranoid as hell about
    wire since my main halyard jumped its sheave with my new racing
    mainsail stuck in the up position.  With a fractional rig there
    was no easy way to get up to free it.  I'll do anything to avoid
    ever going up there again (sans bonsun's chair or harness).
    
    	

    Just an addendum on reaving (reeving?) wire halyards.  You'll need
    some thin messenger line about the same diameter as the wire.  To
    remove the old, cut off the necopress fitting at the shackle and
    wrap the line loosely around the wire, about 6 turns or so spaced
    over 3 inches. This will vary depending on the diameter of the line
    and wire.  The idea is for a thin "splice".  Make sure you have
    enough messenger line.  Then tape over the string and wire.  Pull
    on it to test the joint.  It'll be stronger than it sounds.  Pull
    the old halyard out the lower sheave. Reverse the procedure to install
    the new halyard.  In case of disaster, an electrician's fish tape
    can be used but you'll probably have to pull both sheaves.

    A possibly hopeful note -
    
    If you have wire-and-rope halliards, you probably have multipurpose
    sheaves at the masthead. This a sheave sized for rope with a wire
    groove as well; it works equally well for both rope and wire. If
    this is true, you can probably substitute all-rope halliards without
    any changes at the masthead. If you have a wire-sized exit box for
    internal halliards, these can be easily replaced.
    
    I, too, dislike wire halliards for cruising. As a long-time charterer,
    I've too often had boats with meathooks (also known as cat's claws).
    
    Question: what's the story on ultra-low stretch kevlar-cored
    halliards?? I have no experience, and am curious.
    
    Ross Faneuf
    

What are meathooks?????

>> What are meathooks?????

Ah, you've never met one. A meathook is a broken strand of wire that has 
curled into a very sharp hook. They tend to happen where the wire is 
flexed most -- around a winch or sheave. Meathooks can cause quite nasty 
injury and are one of the reasons we have all rope halyards.

    Thanks for the info, everyone.  I'm going to check my sheaves to
    see if they'll handle rope.  (I'm a cruiser, not a racer.)  If I
    stay with wire, I'll make the new wire a little longer than it is
    on my old main halyard, to get the splice away from the winch.

    My boat has Kevlar halyards, and after 3 seasons, so far so good.
     Kevlar does have the lowest stretch of cordage materials and is
    amazingly strong.  The Sta-Set X mentioned in .n is an excellent
    low stretch rope (I am impressed by most of New England Ropes'
    products).
    
    The drawbacks to Kevlar are cost, a relatively short fatigue life,
    and the need for special sheaves, different from wire or other rope
    sheaves.
    
    Another good halyard choice is Marlow Lionbraid, but it is tricky
    to splice.
                                                           

    I am getting ready to replace my wire/rope halyard with an all rope
    one. I am debating between the Sta-set X (West Marine) and Yale 
    low stretch (Boat US). The Sta-set is like 1.5% stretch, but the Yale
    has no marking on the spool or in any of my catalogs. Anyone know what
    Yale is?
    
    Anyone favor one against the other?
    
      Thanks
    
       john

1.5% stretch??
	
Over a 30 foot mast thats almost 6 inches - that sounds like the 
difference between the boom swinging across and missing my head at the 
beginning of the day, but hitting my head at the end of the day....

    If you race, you won't like the results.  The Main will never be "just
    right". I'd suffer the wire on the main. Go to rope on the jib's if you
    must, then the technora, spectra/kevlar or similar route. Stretch must
    be less then 1%, preferably less than .5%.  Rope solutions = >1.80/ft,
    a tough choice. Weight aloft or a flexible flyer.
    
    BTW on Assassin, 1.5% stretch would be multiplied by the run from the
    winch and double stoppers to the mast, and the 46ft up the spar over the 
    top and 10" (call it a foot) to the headboard. Say 55ft in all or 10" of
    stretch. With wire I get 2".
    
    
    

	I like StaSet, but it's tough for a klutz like me to put an eye in. 
	For the price it's hard to beat. Now, if you have wire sheaves already
	installed or you want to install, that's the way to go. I'd guess you're
	replacing or upgrading? Also, if you go Kevlar, you should have sheaves
	that are a little flattened out.

	NOW for Fantasy Island: my Soverel/DB2/Frers33 would have Kevlar with
	the cover stripped. 

	Back to my steel-keel pig: I need new runners. Anybody had experience
	with technora or spectra or any new snazzy stuff and how it *really*
	holds up in the sunlight?

	Waaah I want to go sailing......

	Scott

    The spectra stuff has a stretch of .8% to it. Right in there with wire,
    but $0.40 vs $1.50 a foot. Wow! my budget is already in shabbles this
    year ;>( I was figuring on readjusting the halyard as conditions
    warranted. An ugly luff is an easily spotted eyesore!  I also have to
    check at what percentage of load they are talking about for those
    numbers. The sheets are probably the strongest link (2200 lbs). I think
    the  blocks would blow up or the sail would rip before the line let go.
    I am working at a load of 1100 lbs at 30kts on the main.
    
    
    re -.1
    
    For runners, you could use spectra and use the yale-light poly cover.
    You get great abrasion resistance, no weight from water, and spectra.
    
    But from what I read, the spinaker lines should not be super low stretch,
    else the sail and rigging takes all the shock every time the sail
    fills.

    The stretch can be minimized by using thicker line.  5/16" or 3/8", if
    it can made to fit the sheaves, shouldn't stretch much at typical
    loads.
    
    I don't think main halyard stetch is such a big deal.  You can only
    haul it up so far before the the headboard meets the sheave.  Just haul
    it up tight and adjust luff tension at the gooseneck.
    
    Low stretch spinnaker sheets make flying the chute easier.  Otherwise a
    lot of line has to be pulled in before there is any effect on the
    chute.
    
    - gene

The stretch of a line is not linear with load. It tends to be less at 
light loads (relative to ultimate strength) and more at heavy loads. The 
percent stretch seems to be given at the recommended maximum working 
load, which is usually 20% of ultimate strength. Thus you could expect 
stretch to be less than the percentage given. Gene's suggestion of using a 
larger diameter halyard makes good sense. I think West Marine will send 
you gratis a brochure showing the stretch characteristics of NE Ropes 
ropes. 

We've used NE Ropes Sta-Set halyards quite happily for years -- cruising 
of course, not racing. Occasional retensioning is needed, but nothing 
bothersome (ie, nothing that would cause me to drop my lunchtime 
sandwich and leap to a winch). Easily spliced, chafe resistant, kind 
to hands and winch drums, not too expensive, various nice colors, and
long lived. What more could a practical cruising sailor ask for? 

Alan

Oh yes, one more point. It is not so much the percent stretch at a given 
load that you need to consider. Rather, it is how much the length of the 
halyard changes with changing load on the halyard -- d(length)/d(load) 
or some such in mathematical parlance. This is where the shape of the 
stretch/load curve becomes of interest.

    Now the runners I also have my eye upon.  Sort of down the list a bit
    as the 1x19 wire workes ok and does not seem to abraid the sail that
    bad.  But the weight......ai yi yi... Two each from the Harken running
    blocks to the upper attachment points (opposite the headstay) and two
    more to mid mast (the checkstays)  Got to be about 15 lbs.  Never
    weighed it but seems about right.  5/32 1x19 is probably way overkill. This
    15/16th fractional rig is not quite stock.  Most Soverel 33's only have
    the check stay and you fiddle backstray and checkstay to get headstay
    tension. It is a nightmare design as those points are a good fifteen
    feet apart and the spar is sorta bendy.
    
    North said "Junk that, do it this way!" The factory complied.
    
     

I just purchased my first sail boat.
So I have some novice questions.

Please excuse me not using the correct
nautical terms.

The top of the mast has two pulleys on it.
But they are end to end - not side by side.
A side view of the top of the mast would look
like a pair of binoculars.  A forward view
would look like one pulley but there is actually
one other just behind it.  This is mounted inside
an aluminum 19' mast.  So don't I have to somehow
route the main and jib halyards up and over the 
top of the mast and secure them to the cleats
on the bottom side of the mast?

I don't think the lines are suppose to go thru
the center of the mast as I didn't see any
holes near the bottom to bring them back out.

I won't have the boat home till Tomorrow so this
confusion is based on a quick look last night.
Maybe I missed something obvious.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
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Mixed metaphors are wonderful.

The aft pully is for the mainsail halyard.  The fore pully (ok block) is for the 
jib halyard.  Halyards are chunks of ropes used to raise sails.  Gravity, or
a light messenger line attached to the top of the sail bringit down.  My cousin
rigged a messenger trom the top of his jib, thorough its hanks to the bow of the
boat, then aft to a cleat.  Not only does it lower the jib from the cockpit, but
it also gathers it up godd and tight.

Loop the halyards somethinglike this:


				___________
				|	   |
				|--\   /-- |
				/ O | | O  \
			       /   /   \    \
			      /   /     \    \
    			     /   /       \    \
  			    /   /	  \    \
			   /   /|	   \	\
	This end to sail  /   /	|	  | \    \  This end to sail
			 /   /	|  Mast   |  \
		
		This end to cleat		This end to cleat

This should solve your problem.

Doug dtn 592-4787

    
    	The last response is correct if both the main and jib halyard go to
    the top of the mast.  If not then you run the main halyard over the
    tops of both blocks.  I have a JY 15 with this kind of fitting at the
    top of the mast and that us how you rig it.
    
    
    forrest

re .19

Welcome to sailing and to the sailing notes file!

I think .21 is probably the right answer. It depends on where the forestay
connects to the mast.

Some terms:
	block = pulley
	sheave = the rotating part of a block or pulley
	halyard = rope used to pull a sail up
	sheet = rope used to adjust the sails angle to the wind.
	mainsail = the sail toward the back of the boat
	jib = the sail toward the front of the boat
	stay = wire rope used to hold the mast in place

Case 1

    main halyard block ---->|\<-----jib halyard block
                            | \
                            |  \<----forestay
                   mast---->|   \
                            |    \
                            |     \
                 mainsail   | jib  \
                          
Case 2

    main halyard block ---->|
                            |
                            |
                            |
                            |\<-----------jib halyard block
                            | \
                            |  \<----forestay
                   mast---->|   \
                            |    \
                            |     \
                  mainsail  | jib  \
                          
The block for the jib halyard is always just below the point where the
forestay meets the mast. The block for the main halyard is always at the
top of the mast.

Frequently, a main halyard block is set across the entire top of the mast,
either as one big sheave, or as two separate sheaves. It sounds as if this is
the arrangement used on your boat. The same arrangement of two sheaves is
often used on larger boats to route both the main halyard and the jib
halyard inside the mast, but you correctly eliminated this possibility by
observing the lack of mast exit blocks.

--RS

Thanks for the help.
I rigged it in my backyard this weekend.
It became obvious as I started putting things together.

Unfortunately I left out one key bit of info.

There was another small block hanging from a strap that also was the for stay.
This was for the Jib Halyard and the main Halyard went over both blocks
that were inside the top of the mast.

Bye          --+--
Kay R. Fisher  |
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