Conference trucks::football;1

This is the way it looks for us in the US...

if we win Group E we will play runners up Group D, probably Bulgaria. We'd be
the favourites for that match....

If we are the runners-up in E we will play the winner of F, probably
Holland....bad news

If we qualify as one of the 4 best 3rd place teams we get to play either the
winners of group A or D, probably Colombia and Argentina....I'd fancy our
chances against any South American side at the moment, so not too bad....

Conclusions....we must not come 2nd in our group....I'm predicting 5 points
which, (goal difference permitting), might be good enough to win the group, but
will probably only be good enough for 2nd.... therefore it looks like we'll  be
playing the Dutch in Orlando on the 4th July....

just my opinion....
Ray....

official squad announced yesterday ......


1.  Packie Bonner    (Glasgow Celtic)
2.  Denis Irwin      (Manchester United)
3.  Terry Phelan     (Manchester City)
4.  Kevin Moran      (Blackburn Rovers)
5.  Paul McGrath     (Aston Villa)
6.  Roy Keane        (Manchester United)
7.  Andy Townsend    (Aston Villa)
8.  Ray Houghton     (Aston Villa)
9.  John Aldridge    (Tranmere Rovers)
10. John Sheridan    (Sheffield Wednesday)
11. Steve Staunton   (Aston Villa)
12. Gary Kelly       (Leeds United)
13. Alan Kernaghan   (Manchester City)
14. Phil Babb        (Coventry City)
15. Tommy Coyne      (Motherwell)
16. Tony Cascarino   (Chelsea)
17. Eddie McGoldrick (Arsenal)
18. Ronnie Whelan    (Liverpool)
19. Alan McLoughlin  (Portsmouth)
20. David Kelly      (Wolves)
21. Jason McAteer    (Bolton Wndrs)
22. Alan Kelly       (Sheffield United)

    Italian team
    
    Goalkeeper:      
    Pagliuca (Sampdoria)
    Marchegiani (Lazio)
    Bucci (Parma)
    
    Defender line:
    Tassotti, Baresi, Maldini, Costacurta (Milan)
    Benarrivo, Minotti, Apolloni (Parma)
    
    Midfield:
    Dino Baggio, Conte (Juventus)
    Albertini, Donadoni (Milan)
    Evani (Sampdoria)
    
    Forward:
    Roberto Baggio (Juventus)
    Casiraghi, Signori (Lazio)
    Zola (Parma)
    Massaro (Milan)
    Berti (Inter)
    
    
Pino

Extract from today's Irish Times containing some quotes from Jorge Campos, the
Mexican goalkeeper ....

"The Irish are kidding themselves if they think they can compete with us on
equal terms in Orlando.  They'll die of exhaustion under the mid-day sun",
Campos is quoted as saying in a Spanish paper, and he predicts an equally trying
afternoon for the Irish supporters.  "They will be outnumbered by about 10 to
one".
Maintaining his theme, Campos says: "Just because they got two lucky results
against Holland and Germany they think they're world-beaters.  We can't wait to
sink our teeth into them and shut them up once and for all".


so now for ya !

Are you shaking in your boots ? My pants are brown already. Ohhh those Mexicans
are a scary bunch aren't they.

Peter.

    
    Let the anti-Mehecan rabble begin..... :-) 
    
    

    
    If Mr. Campos tries to sink his teeth into Tony Cascarino he may get
    more than he bargained for !  On the other hand if he tries it with
    Ronnie Whelan, Ronnie probably won't even notice with all the added
    protection he carries around his waistline !
    
    
    Jerry.

    
    I think that hot will be the chief factor of this world championship.
    Therefore "muscular" teams shouldn't be the favourites. South American
    teams will take advantage of this situation.
    The only positive factor for north european teams might be the playing
    fields that are announced not very good, and the "technical" teams
    would have some problems doing their usual kind of play. It seems that
    this world cup will not have the best US stadiums. Americans don't
    seem to be really interested about soccer. It's like a baseball world
    cup would be played in Europe.
    However I also think that in a such short competition like a soccer world
    cup (only one month), lucky is a very important key.
    About Italy, the last friendly matches didn't show a team
    having a lot of chances. Against Switzerland the level of play was
    poor, although we won 1-0. But in the championships things would be
    quite different.
    
    bye bye
    Giuseppe
                                                     
     
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
    What's the expected starting line-up for Italy then?
    
    Tony
    
     

    Tony,
    
    I think they're planning to start out with Eleven men. Obviously, it
    will be a bonus if they finish with 11 on the pitch ;-)
    
    Jerry.

    Today "La Gazzetta dello Sport" show the more probable team that
    Sacchi will choose.
    
    
    1st supposition:
    ---------------
                                                              
                             Pagliuca
    
    Tassotti        Costacurta        Baresi        Maldini
    
    
    D. Baggio              Albertini               Evani
    
    
    Massaro                  R.Baggio              Signori
    
    
    
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    2nd supposition:
    ---------------
                              Pagliuca
    
    Tassotti      Costacurta           Baresi      Maldini
    
    
    Donadoni                  Albertini             Evani
    
    
    Berti                     R.Baggio             Signori
    
    
    
    But you've got to know that it's really hard to understand what Sacchi is
    going to do...
    
    Lele

    
    Will Sacchi play the Parma winger Zola...I know he was ineffective
    against Arsenal but he might have a field day against any of the
    opposing full-backs in the Group matches.
    
    Dezzz.

    Dezzz,
    
    How dare you talk about Denis Irwin, Gary Kelly and Terry Phelan like
    that. Well, OK, I do have some reservations about Phelan. Hopefully,
    Jack will see sense and put Denis back on the left where he belongs,
    leaving the right wing free for Gary Kelly to show his pace.
    
    Jerry. 

    Re .11
    
    It will be more of a surprise if Ireland complete the game with 11 men,
    considering the refereing guideance given for the World Cup around
    tackles from behind.
    
    Re.13
    
    Zola is the main man in the Parma team and his position is in the
    middle of the park, the reason you believe him to be a winger is the
    free role he is allowed with them. This will be seen in the fact that
    it is unlikely Zola and Baggio play in the same team as they are the
    same type of player, taking the same positions, both looking to dictate
    the pattern of play for the Azzurri.
    
    Antony
    

    can anyone tell me why Big Jack was so upset by the press
    yesterday?...he did not look like a happy man....there were rumours of
    a bust-up between Keane and Setters but that's all that I know at this
    stage....
    
    Ray....

    
    I see Jackie did a very good impression of a spoilt brat yesterday,
    It's great seeing him squirm for a change. As for his number 2 what the
    F***k was he doing, was he going to hit the reporter with his hand bag.
    I bet they were trembling in there boots with the threat of that dwarf
    hitting there knee-caps.
    
    I think the press have got it all wrong, it's not the players who are
    drinking heavliy it's the management team.... Roy Keane looked totally
    embarrased by his managers outburst....He should just calm down, wear a
    hat. The sun is beginning to burn up whats left of his brain....Jackie
    has obviously been to the same school as Grahame Taylor on how to
    handle the press...Get a life Charlton you are pathetic....
    
    Neil...
    
    Neil...   

    
    
    
    Neil,
    I don't think you really understand what's going on here do you.....
    
    Charlton was basically furious at the 'BRITISH" press for various
    untruths. Now what interest the British press have in how well or how
    badly Ireland do is beyond me. Up until a few years ago they wouldn't
    even publish an Irish match report (sometimes failing even to publish
    a result). So now they want to add their 'valued opinion' to the
    occasion beacause they've got nothing to say about any of 'home'
    nations.
    
    There is a word in German 'Schadenfreude' of which the BRITISH press 
    and I'm afraid you Mr Cosseyn are guilty of; waiting on every little
    slip-up that somebody makes just to have a good old gloat over.
    
    PATHETIC - that's the only word I can describe the last note.
    
    Can't you just for once look on things in a positive manner.
    
    Dezzz. 
         

    re. -17
    
    >I bet they were trembling in there boots with the threat of that dwarf
    >hitting there knee-caps.
    
      Since when has Jack Charlton been a dwarf???  If he's counted as
    small then I'm off to join the league of munchkins.
    
    Cheers then
    
    Jim

    
    The trouble is Charlton has had a reletive easy time from the press.
    And since they are the nearest country to England taking part and
    nearly all his squad play in the British league and none of the british
    sides are in the tournement, he must have expected a certain ammount of
    press coverage. And with the press coverage comes all the bullshit we've
    had to put up with it for years... Let's face it, he blew his gasket
    over a article over some of his players drinking too much. What will he
    be like when they really start to stir it, and lets face it yesterdays 
    pathetic outburst won't help him one little bit.....I have always
    wondered how he would react when he was put under a little bit of media
    pressure, I'm beginning to find out..... 
    
    
    Neil...
    
    
    

    
    Re .18
    
    Dezzz,
    
    	please don't generalise. I think you really mean that the English
    press are guilty of Schadenfreude, not the British press as a whole. As
    far as the South Wales Echo not publishing Irish football results, its
    news to me that they've started publishing ANY football results! It'll
    never catch on in Wales! 8-)
    
    JBG

    Jim,
    
    I think Neil was trying to imply that Maurice Setters is a dwarf,
    although it is often difficult to translate his notes into gramatically
    correct English. (Being Irish and living in Switzerland, at least I
    have an excuse ;-).
    
    Re: The rest of Neil's note:
    
    I don't know about the rest of the Irish and associate Irish in here,
    but it sort of makes me feel good to see people like Mr. Cossey
    embittered and with nothing better to do than compare the Irish manager
    who has taken his team to the WC Finals with the ex-English manager who
    didn't.
    
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start up the Anglo-Celt war
    party, I'm referring to one individual who has consistently spouted
    s**t in any note where Ireland has been involved. I know plenty of
    English (and British) people who always support Ireland when they play
    against other "non-local" teams. Friendly rivalry is what sport is all
    about, but the "Anyone but them" brigade don't contribute very much, in
    my opinion.
    
    Neil, tempted though I may be to tar all your countrymen with the same
    brush as you have so effectively used on yourself, I will resist. In
    fact I look forward to the day when Terry gets England on the road
    again (same goes for Wales, N.I. and Scotland) so that everyone has 
    someone to shout for (and against).
    
    Finally, I think Jack is right on the money in telling the Press where
    to get off. He made the point that the Irish entourage have always been
    open and accomodating to the Press, allowing them access to players and
    staff where practicable (i.e. off the pitch). I don't think it was
    entirely unreasonable for him to be upset when "inside stories" of
    "excessive alcohol consumption" etc. etc. start to appear in an attempt
    to liven up the stories for the non-committed reader. If Jack adopted
    the same "Stay Away" approach as other teams, with security preventing
    Pressmen access to the hotel and players, then the "Inside stories"
    wouldn't appear. Well, I suppose they would probably appear in certain
    papers anyway !
    
    
    Keep taking the tablets,
    
    Jerry.
                   

    
    JBG,
    	Yes you're spot on...when I refer to the British Press I mean the
    'nationals'...and I guess I really mean the 'gutter' press like the
    SUN, Mirror , Mail, Express....
    
    Goodness knows what they'll say if their great English cricket team
    should lose a test to New Zealand.....
    
    Dezzz.
    

    
    I believe welshman Dave Page (alias Hector P. Rants), ex-noter in this very 
    conference and Sheffield United fan is working as a journo for the South 
    Wales Echo!! - so there may be some hope of Football results being
    published in that rag at some time in the future.
    
    As for Big Jacks outburst, I thought he was brilliant! - good man.
    
    Al.

    
    Lets face it chaps, if the press wanted to be sensationalist about the
    Irish squad we'd see headlines like:
                                       
    		"Jackie's Sober Squad" 
    
    or 		"Roy Keane : No Guinness for 6 weeks"
    
	....but this stuff about the Irish squad labouriously sticking to
    their staple diet in preparation for the WC is pretty boring really!!!
    
    JBG

    
    Re:27
    
    Is he...Well knock me down with a feather....
    
    Neil...

.22 
>>> Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to start up the Anglo-Celt war
>>> party,
    
    
    Jerry, I think you're too late, it's already started....how about we
    call a cease-fire?...
    
    
    let's get this thread started again....here's my prediction for the
    starting 11 this Saturday night...
    
    				Bonner
    
    	Phelan		Babb		Ooh-Ahh		Irwin
    
    Staunton	Sheridan	Townsend	Keane		Houghton
    
    				Aldo
    
    
    
    
    
    

    >>Is he...Well knock me down with a feather....

I will but only if there's an Emperor Penguin attached to it !

How can you compare Jack to Taylor. Jack handled the Press how they should be
handled. With contempt. If they don't play by his rules then they don't get
access to the team and press conferences etc...

Jack's quip about the players loosing Alcohol in the Orlando heat was seen over
here as being humorous because as everybody knows , the lads probably do consume
an odd Pint, but in Engerland , the Tabloids ,well they're so used to the inane
management style of Robson and  Taylor they presume that players should be
treated like monks and that the manager will bow and scrape in the fear that
they will print somthing about him. 
For Christ's sake in an interview on Sunday Grandstand which was filmed in Jacks
bedroom a Guinness tap could be clearly seen in the backround and the bar was
pointed out by Jack as being a feature of the room.

I don't know why I'm even wasting my time...

Good luck,

Peter.

  Dezz, Jerry, Peter and the rest... Don't let Neil get to you.. just ignore
the comments and laugh at the fact that Neil will be wanting teams to lose in
the States because he has no one to support... like nothing will change that....
nothing....

   Iam sorry for the rest of the "genuine" British fans that their teams didn't
make it.. but Iam sure they will still enjoy the WC.... Neils biggest enjoyment
will be when Ireland lose.....  It must be comforting to the real fans of 
England to have an Ambassador like Mr Cossey....

                                                      yours in sport.....

                                                             -dave-

    
    Yeah....
    
    Mmmm....
    
    Righto Dave...I reckon Jeff Astle was offside ...oder...????
    
    

    Dave,
    
    Re:
    
>   Neils biggest enjoyment will be when Ireland lose.....  
    
    
    What the hell are you talking about man ?  Haven't you read my
    predictions :
    
    
>    CHAMPIONSHIP
>           
>    Date   Match	Location	Match-up		SCORE
>    M/DD   NO.							FINAL
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
>    7/17   52		Pasadena   	Ireland v Sweden	2-1
>    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    As you can see, Neil has nothing to look forward to in this WC ;-)
    
    Roll on 1996,
    
    Jerry.

    
    
    
    Dave, nice note...
    
    Don't worry lads I've got plenty to look forward too during the next
    month. 
    
    Lets hope Jackie enjoys it and doesn't let those naughty boys from the
    press wind him up to much...
    
     
    Neil...
     

    
    Here here .40
    

    
Well chaps ....here it is....straight from the horses mouth.....
    
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    Little things please little minds......
    
    Andy..B
                                     

    re: 9
    
    
    Wait till you see the pitch at all the stadiums before you spout off
    your conventional wisdom about the condition of the grass.
    
    the grass will be soft enough for your team to land on their bottoms
    without hurting themselves--lets just hope your team doesn't bore the
    American fans with their play acting and defensive tactics
    
    good luck
    
    rick 

    
    Well, I don't belive it, I've only gone and drawn Ireland in our 
    departments sweepstake.....Gutted....
    
    Neil...

re: -1

You're gutted .I got England ;-)

    
    Thats Irish sweepstakes for you..... I'd stick to the tabloid newspapers
    if I was you, at least they get the right teams competing....  
    
    
    Neil...

    neil,
    
    I though you'd be quite happy with Ireland.....
    
    after all most of the players are English anyway.
    
    worse even than that, they now have a Kilmarnock player in nets.
    
    bad to worse ;-)
    
    Kev....
    

    
    Kev,
          Strange isn't it, there was certainly a few smiles going around when
    I pulled that one out of the hat....I even offered to swap it for the
    likes of Boliva, Moroccco, Saudi Arabia, South Korea and even the good
    ole US of A and I still didn't have any takers. Popular lot Jacks mob... 
    Looks like I'll have to keep it and hope I don't collect the pot... 
    
    Neil..
    

    re -1 
    
    Get a life !!

Tanks for the offer Sean but I think I have a better chance with what I've got
;-)

Peter.

   I am very excited about the start of the world cup at the moment, more
excited than for any previous competition. I have the feeling that it may be
a very good world cup with star players emerging.

It's now a couple of days to the Italian game and with Roy Keane's problems
at the moment, Ronnie could get his chance and he is going really well in 
training at the moment. 

I think Jack's team will be:

                         Bonner

Irwin              McGrath           Babb            Phelan

Houghton        Sheridan    Keane    Townsend        Staunton

                        Coyne


My team would be as follows:

                           Bonner

Irwin           McGrath            Babb               Phelan

                        Whelan

Houghton        Keane           Townsend             Staunton

                          Aldo

It will be a very close game against the Italians. I'll stick my neck out and
go for a 1-0 win to the Irish with Aldo getting the goal after coming on at half
time for Coyne.


C U N N O

    
    re:54
    
    The only worry I have is the lack of creative midfielders. In the type
    of heat they will be playing in I can't see them playing there normal
    game of legging it around for 90 mins. So, what they need is someone to 
    put there foot on the ball and slow the pace down a bit...Whose capable
    of doing that ?....
    
    Neil..

    Gentlemen,
    
    yesterday I saw a report on German TV, that officials are expecting
    riots when Ireland plays Italy. The reasons which were given in this
    article were Houligans from both sides and also a large gay festival in
    New York. Even American supporters seem to change their peaceful
    behaviour. The pictures, which showed the situation in Vancouver after
    the Stanley Cup final on tuesday reminded me a lot on Europe a few
    years ago. 
    
    Frank

>>    yesterday I saw a report on German TV, that officials are expecting
>>    riots when Ireland plays Italy. The reasons which were given in this
>>    article were Houligans from both sides and also a large gay festival in
>>    New York. Even American supporters seem to change their peaceful
>>    behaviour. The pictures, which showed the situation in Vancouver after
>>    the Stanley Cup final on tuesday reminded me a lot on Europe a few
>>    years ago. 

	I reckon that German TV is doing a bit of a Klinsman, trying 
	to get people in trouble where no offence has been committed.

	The truth is that the Irish supporters NEVER cause trouble. 
	NEVER have and hopefully NEVER will.

	I have never heard of reports of Italian international team fans 
	causing trouble either.

	And, just because Irish supporters would crawl past 10 naked 
	women to get to a pint, doesn't suggest they're gay!!

	Michael.

    Neil,
    
    >game of legging it around for 90 mins. So, what they need is someone to 
    >put there foot on the ball and slow the pace down a bit...Whose capable
    >of doing that ?....
    
    John Sheridan. I think Jack introduced Sheridan for the reasons you
    mention (as much as it was caused by the reshuffle needed when Nial
    Quinn got injured).
    
    Paul.
     

    
    Sheridan, are you serious...
    
    Neil...

    Neil,
    
    Yes, he's so lazy he'll never run around all day. Seriously, I don't
    think Charlton has brought him in to chase around after the ball. The
    five man midfield will give them extra options in this area and
    Sheridan can pass the ball accurately. Hopefully, this will mean giving
    away possession less which in turn leads to the entire team being less
    knackered. 
    
    If he's told to slow it down then he can take the ball from deep
    although I don't think he's particularly good at this. 
    
    Paul.
     

  Frank is german TV trying to take the focus off their own fans????? like we
all know what happened in Austria a few weeks back... and Ireland has an
excellent reputation regarding their fans.... 

   By the way when i mentioned how German fans celebrate I was refering to what
happened in this town and a lot of others after they won the WC 90. I live in
a country town with only 50,000 inhabitants.. That's why I hope the Germans
don't win......


                                                                   -dave-

    Dave,
    
    don't try to cheat our co-noters, in Austria 50 Germans + AUSTRIANS had
    a fight, during which one German was seriously injured. There were not
    thousands of houligans destroying the whole centre of Vienna. Regarding
    WC 90 I don't know what was going on in Kaufbeuren, but here in Cologne
    - a city of 1 mio inhabitants - we had a big party. Not as big as the
    one after the 1/2 final against England, but we showed how to
    celebrate.
    
    Frank 

    Due to a lost bet, I have to spend the evening of 28th June, in an
    Irish club in Harrow, wearing the full Ireland kit, cheering for the
    boys in Green. To make this even slightly bearable, I'm going to have
    to have a big bet on Ireland to win.
    
    Is anyone offering better than 33/1 about Ireland and does anyone know
    the nearest bookies to DECpark?
    
    Dave.

    
    .44
    
    Why .44 has not yet set hidden ?
    
    If you are already so angry, what it will happen if another Maradona
    will score against your team with a HAND ?
    
    bye for now
    Giuseppe
    
    

>    I didn't spot any "IFs" in the paragraph. ;-)
    
    Isn't the 28th June your last group match? Even I don't reckon you'll
    get knocked out without playing all three 1st round matches.
    
    Dave.

    
    Ireland are 75-1 in the States ''according to Danny Sheridan''....
    
    Dezzz.

  Dezz... ARD had a program on last night concerning the WC.. and one part of
the program was showing the odds in Las Vegas.... The four favourites were

Brazil, Germany, Argentina, and Columbia in that order.... It showed all the 
odds... Ireland were at 25-1, and the States were at 30-1....

  It wasn't a bad program though the more I hear Matthaus talking the less I
like the guy... He runs the team not Vogts.... Well if the Germans haven't
success at football maybe it'll work out with music!!!!! They must have three
or four songs out for the WC.. last night a new one with The Scorpions... I
would love to see them on stage with Nina Hagen!!!!!!


                                                           -dave-

    I'm off for the weekend. I've just one more thing to say
    
    COME ON IRELAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    
    The bookies are offering odds of 5-1 for an Irish win tomorrow night.
    I'll have some of that. If there's any Irish in Ayr who are looking for
    somewhere to look at the match, a gang of us will be in the rugby club
    in Ayr, just past the cottage. 
    
    I suppose I'll need a new personal name as well....I also got Bolivia
    in the office sweep today....COME ON BOLIVIA....
    
    
    
    ITA 0 - 2 RoI

    
    	Well I suppose I'd better say it...
    
    	Good luck to the Paddies this weekend. Italy are my tip for the 
    	trophy but you can nick a point I guess ;-)
    
    	Just beat Norway forchristsake!
    
    	I'll even drink a Guiness tomorrow night while I'm in t'pub.
         
    	Andy.

    hi everybody
    
       I'm from MEXICO, you usually are talking about ireland only
       what is you guess on this GROUP "the DEAD GROUP"
       I really hope that Mexico go to the next round, but if I'm
       honest I don't think so.
       We usually have a good players but as a team...
       You may not that we were 2nd play on the AMERICAN CUP (Argentina
       is the champiom), we play versus BOLIVIA, COLOMBIA...BRASIL
       was there, so the MEXICAN people like me want to see the team
       playing as they did on this cup.
    
       My guess
                  Italy vs Ireland    1 1
                  Italy vs Mex        2 1
                  Italy vs Noruega    2 1
                  Irela vs Noruega    1 1
                  Mex   vs Noruega    1 1
                  Irlan vs Mex        0 0

    		IRELAND 1 	ITALY 0
    
    Great game
    Great goal
    Great win!
    
    The only downside of the match (apart from getting up at 5:30am) was
    listening to Martin Tyler commentating. I lost count of the number of
    times he told us that most of the team were born in England and only
    had Irish ancestors. He also mentioned the English manager a few times!
    
    I think Tyler might be better off going home and watching BBC re-runs
    of the 1966 world cup final, his jealousy was showing through.
    
    Tony.

    
    Solid performance and a great result. I hope Charlton can keep
    everyones feet on the ground but it will be tough. Expectations must
    now be higher than ever.....has any other side beaten Germany, Holland
    and Italy in a row ?  I doubt it.
    
    congratulations...
    
    Del.
    
    ps.  re.last
    
    During the opening match Barry Davies mentioned England on 7 different
    occasions during the 90 mins. Sad really.........

    
    Great result for England reserves last night.    ;>)
    It was proved last night that if you snuff out Baggio.(R) and Baresi,
    then the Italians are an ordinary team.Scotland proved it at Ibrox in the
    qualifiers,and they're p!$$ poor.                     
    I think the Norwegians may cause them some problems to.
    The Italian defence looked as sound as the Columbian one at times.
    Perhaps Saatchi should consider playing Tassoti and Maldini in the
    centre of defence with Massaro and Savicevic (sp),up front. ;>)
    
    Very surprised to see Coyne being booked for cheating.....
    
    NOT!

    Good result.
    
    I don't like all the passing back to the goalie. Really slows the game
    down, still I guess that's what Charlton wanted.

    
    After the Saturday's match, Italy is in a stir. People still don't
    believe to have lost the match. A poll made just before the match,
    showed that more than 70 percent of Italians believed in a win for 2-0
    or more. Now, after the match the same amount of people think that the
    team will be certainly defeated. Sacchi, that was considered a great
    trainer, now is believed a stupid. This is typical italian.
    
    Congratulations to the Irish.
    
    Giuseppe
    
    

    I think a lot of Irish will also be a little amazed also. I guess most
    will have to big a hangover to remember though :).

    oh my head....____well, as that great South American commentator once said..
    
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    
    

    I think he actually said 

    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgol
    golgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgolgoal
                                                                              ^

    Hey Cunno and the Irish based lads,
    How's about a few headlines from the Irish papers for us ex-pats????
    Has Amoan Grumpy been stirring it again????
    
    Ray..(missing the atmos back home but I'll be there this Friday)..
     

    All good news from the Irish papers.
    Award for the most obvious headline goes to 'News of the World'.
    "PIZZA CAKE - Ireland beat the Pasta Masters"
    Crap or what ?
            Conor.

                      P  W  D  L  GF  GA Pts
    Ireland           1  1  0  0   1   0   3
    Norway            1  1  0  0   1   0   3
    Italy             1  0  0  1   0   1   0
    Mexico            1  0  0  1   0   1   0
    
    
    18th June '94
    East Rutherford     Italy          0-1      Ireland
    
    19th June '94
    Washington          Norway         1-0      Mexico
    
    23rd June '94
    East Rutherford     Italy           v       Norway
    
    24th June '94
    Orlando             Ireland         v       Mexico
    
    28th June '94
    Washington          Italy           v       Mexico
    East Rutherford     Ireland         v       Norway

Good game , Great tactics , Great performances , Great Goal.
Overall the World Cup isn't bad so far.

Peter.

    I've just read some of the game reviews in some of the British papers.
    They're almost wetting themselves over McGrath's performance. Where's
    our man in Italia, Dom Turner, for the Italian angle?
    
    The news about Coyne is bad. FIFA must relent on the `no water on the
    pitch' rule or someone will be seriosly damaged. Coyne collapsed on the
    flight back to Orlando. Apparently the situation was worsened because
    Coyne had to provide the pi....(ahem), urine sample and there was
    nothing left in the tank, so he drank loads of water and he re-hydrated
    himself too quickly. Charlton will make an official complaint today.
    
    I've also just collected the 60 quid that I won on the match. Don't you
    just love Mondays....
    
    Ray....

    re .84                                                
    
    Peter,
    
    I think I'd go along with your analysis, and certainly I enjoyed
    watching the match (Kevin Moran was shown about 4 times :-), great
    stuff!)
    
    The only black mark for Ireland was picking up 3 unnecessary bookings. 
    
    The fouls by Irwin and Phelan were recklessly stupid and both justified
    a card IMO. I suppose Coyne was a bit unlucky in that he'd been
    smacked on the head and didn't seem to understand what was going on. 
    
    Personally I think this get-up or get-off policy is working well so far. 
    
    Cheers,
    
    Andy
    
    p.s. If I was driving the golf cart I suspect the temptation to roll
    over the leg of a performing Klinsmann would be too good to miss ;-) 

I'd agree that the two of the bookings were justified. Irwin maybe just lost his
footing trying to stop himself from going in on the player but it did look bad. 
Coyne's booking wasn't at all fair and really there should be some form of
appeal available to players after the game. I suppose there is consolation in
the fact that yellow cards don't carry to the second round.

I'd imagine that Cascarino will line out (if fit) against the Mexican's , they
were brutal in the air last night and as for their keeper , well, 'nuf said.

Norway will be a tough game and I think that we do need to beat Mexico to be
assured of qualification to the second phase.

Roll on Friday,

Peter.

I heard that for this World Cup they ARE allowing an appeal against yellow/red
cards - by use of video... I'm not sure what the criteria is for appealing -
ie. whether you have to wait until the player receives two yellow cards, and
then appeal against the first one; I dare say it will become clearer later
in the tournament.

Norman

Is there some sort of an "accumulation rule" on yellow cards I am not aware of?

FIFA rules= 1 yellow has no effect on the next game; you can draw 1 yellow in 
              every game you play with no effect on subsequent games?

            2 yellows in a game draws a red and you sit out the next game.
            
World Cup rules= Different?

Clark

>>FIFA rules= 1 yellow has no effect on the next game; you can draw 1 yellow in 
>>              every game you play with no effect on subsequent games?


In the W.C 1st round if you get a yellow card in any two games you are suspended
for 1 game. If you receive a red card in any game you are suspended for 2 games.

From the 2nd round on, red merits a two match suspension and 2 yellows in adn
two games means a one game suspension.

Clear as mud,

Peter.

I wonder what that smug Italian who was sitting beside me in the 
Olympic stadium in ROme feels now.   Just like I did 4 years ago!


Roll on Orlando.
Shane

If you draw your second yellow card of the round in a game other than the 
one in which you received your first yellow, does your team play with 10 
players on the field for the remaider of the second game?

That would seem to give an unfair advantage to your second opponent over a 
completely innocent team, such as the one you received your first yellow 
against. 

Clark

    
    	Great win, well deserved on their performance. I was a bit worried
    that they'd struck a bit early and would be struggling to keep Italy
    out for the next 80 odd minutes. As it turned out, Ireland controlled
    the game from then on & the Italians only looked threatening for the
    first 15 minutes of the second half. Ireland stayed cool & McGrath &
    Babb played out of their skins. I felt Italy made the mistake of not
    putting Bonner under pressure with all the back-passes. Thats what the
    new(ish) ruling was for, & Bonner never looked comfortable. Still, I'm
    glad really as Ireland gave everything. I'd take commitment over skill
    any day, not that Ireland are lacking in skill, just that with all
    their stars, they were expected to win. They lost because they won no
    loose ball, were always closed down, and gave Ireland too much time on
    the break.
    
    JBG

>>If you draw your second yellow card of the round in a game other than the 
>>one in which you received your first yellow, does your team play with 10 
>>players on the field for the remaider of the second game?

No. you carry on as normal but the player is suspended for the following game.
What the situation is if you get a second yellow in the last game of group 1 is
one that I'm unsure of. If yellow cards don't carry into the second round will
you be suspended or is the slate wiped clean ?


Peter.

    From an Italian point of view..... McGrath was the MOTM. Great game!
    
    Can someone confirm... There was a yellow given at every game so far
    and I believe ITALY is the only team without a card issued! Hummm! (:^))
    
    Nick

    My hands have steadied themselves enough now to let them near a
    keyboard. By mid-afternoon yesterday I could almost talk again ! 
    I'm still not sure that my head is back to normal (shut up, JBG !) 
    but it was all in a good cause. 
    
    I think everything has already been said about the game. I'ld like to
    take this opportunity to thank the ref for allowing us four extra
    minutes to enjoy our dominance over the Italians (Doesn't he know that
    my Da has a heart condition ;-) !).  Also, perhaps we should spare a 
    thought for our old friend Schilachi (sp?). My thought is "REVENGE" ;-)
    
    I wonder who we'll meet in the final ;-)
    
    Jerry. 

	No-one has mentioned the possible foul by Babb that could have given 
the Italians a pen. Very touch and go, and many referees would have given it, 
including myself if I was the man in cerise or mustard yellow (uughh).

	However, it would have been unjust as the best team won. (and that's 
from an Englishman).

    F**k off, he got the ball !
    
    Jerry.
    
    
    ;-))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    
    At least it looked like that to me, but then I was looking through the
    end of an emerald-tinted beer glass !

Chart the likely path to the final for Ireland if we come either first or second
or third in our group.
Naturally not every angle could be covered but here are some anyway.

Not that I seriously think that we can get there in light of the fact that we
would probably have to face...

				Ireland 1st
				     |
				     |
				Argentina or
				Nigeria		2nd from D
				     |
				     |
				Germany         
			             |
				     |
				Spain		or
				Columbia	or
				Argentina	or
				Nigeria
				     |
				     |
				Brazil		or
				Italy




				Ireland 2nd
				     |
				     |
				Holland 	or
				Belgium
				     |
				     |
				Brazil
				     |
				     |
				Romania		or
				Holland
				     |
				     |
				Italy		or
				Germany


				

				Ireland 3rd ( 1st scenario )
					|
					|
				Argentina	or
				Nigeria
					|
					|
				Spain		or
				Colombia
					|
					|
				Germany		or
				Italy	
					|
					|
				Brazil



				Ireland 3rd (Second scenarion )
					|
					|
				Romania
					|
					|
				Belgium		or
				Holland
					|
					|
				Italy		or
				Brazil
					|
					|
				Germany		or
				Nigeria


I made these possible scenarios up very quickly so please don't give me the crap
that it's impossible etc...just let me know what you think. 

Of course there are plenty more possible paths depending on winners of certain
games but I feel that these are the most likely. Granted , the third place ones
are unlikely but maybe we'd be better off finishing in third place when you look
at these.

Finishing first. I thought the big names shouldn't meet until the semi's ? Looks
like the hardest rout to me.

Second looks best and would suit me fine,

Peter.

    
    Jack Charlton is getting right on my tits complaining about this water
    issue, his constant wingeing reminds me so much of that other idiot
    Graham Taylor...
    
    Good result Saturday...
    
    Neil.. 

    The first scenario is the more favorable one eventhough Germany would
    be a quarter finalist. All the games through to the final would be in
    New York...Now eventhough its tough there.. by the time a hopeful 1/4
    final came along the Germans would be playing 'away' in the
    Meadowlands.....
    
    Absolutely delighted with the result by the way...Townsend and Keane
    were to me the difference...Townsend winning in the air whilst Keane did a
    job on the Italian midfield similar to the one he did in Hannover ;
    McGrath...well what can you say....
    
	Dezzz.

    
    
    
      Considering the state that Tommy Coyne was in after Saturday's game,
    Charlton is quite right to complain about the water issue. Players
    could be made quite ill if they are not properly re-hydrated during
    matches. A couple of 30 second times-outs during each half seems to 
    be a pretty sensible idea to me, ie when someone is being
    "power-strechered" off the park, refill the boys then.
    
      Danny.
    
    
   ps How are you enjoying the world cup without the glorious England team
      Neil? Mind you, the number of times that Engerland are mentioned by
      the commentators, I'm quite sure they'll suddenly appear and make
      a dramatic appearance in USA.

    
    I agree it is dangerous for the players not to have water, but, every
    report ?. It's obvious what Charlton is trying to do....
    
    I'm Enjoying the Championships so far with the Romania, Columbia and
    Brazil being the outstanding teams, So Far!. Their are no really weak
    sides, though plenty of average ones. It's a shame England arn't there as
    I'm sure under Terry Venables England would have done well. Also, don't you
    think this is what the championships are lacking at the moment. Lets
    face it, every world competition needs England.. 
    
    Neil..  

    
    Take care Sean.....all the best....
    
    Dezzz.

Always entertaining and informative. Can safely say that I've never 
"Next Unseened" over one of your notes, unlike some others I could mention     
( Hi Neil & Andy ) ;-)

Good luck in the future,


Peter(An Impartial Celt)

    Just heard on the radio that a compromise has been 
    reached on the drinking-water-during-the-game problem.
    FIFA are to allow teams to throw bags of water to their
    players during the game.... Jack seems to be happy with
    that, 
    
    
    Jim.
    

    
    Jack's happy with that, oh good, what will Jack find to moan about now ?.
    
    Neil..
    
    

        
    This throwing water bags sounds like great fun, but what are the rules?. 
    
    Does the play have to stop ?
    Is there a maximum range ?
    How many throwers are allowed ?
    Can the crowd join in ? 
    Must it be water ?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Andy

Well if we showed him some of your notes Neil I'm sure he could find somthing ;-)

Peter.

    
    Now surely this isn't the first time that the Finals have been held in
    a 'hot' weather country ?? What happened in Italy,Mexico and Spain ???
    
    I seem to remember players having bags of water on the field ???
    
    Dezzz.

    Re: .114
    
    	You're spot on, Dezzz. I remember small bags of water begin tossed to
    players in the '82 WC in Spain. If memory serves me right, that was the
    first world cup where the loss of body fluids was recognised. I think I
    even remember the english players biting of packets of water or ice and
    sucking on it. 
    	I was wondering why this wasn't done in this WC. Instead we've been
    seeing the plastic containers. At least they've figured it out now. 
    
    Kumar    

    
    Re:last
    
    The water bags definitely happened in Mexico,not sure about Spain.
    I too, am wondering why this hasn't been allowed from the start of
    these championships. 

Well, I guess apologies for absence are due! I dearly wanted to give you guys
the Italian side of the buildup to Saturday's big match, but it just happens
that I've been sunning myself in Minorca for the last fortnight...and very nice
it was too! So you'll have to make do with this post-match (or should I say
"post mortem", given that it's the Italian angle...) analysis.

First of all, Ireland were magnificent. During the last few weeks, I've lost 
count of the number of "experts" here who have said that the Irish would
collapse in the New Jersey heat, and that their style of play was suicidal,
etc. So what a laugh to see McAteer (great prospect for the future) skipping
past Maldini and Albertini as he took the ball into the penalty area, leaving
them dead in their tracks, tongues hanging out. Indeed, of all the teams I've
seen so far, Italy are the team that appear to have been most at odds with the
heat and humidity. I think they *can* raise their game (I should bloody hope
so too!), but it has to be a worry for Sacchi that they're looking sodrained at
such an early stage.

But what about Ireland? Great team performance, but if I've got to name names,
then I can look no further than McGrath and Townsend. McGrath hobbles along as
though he's in need of a double knee operation, but when he actually starts to
run, there are still few quicker players over 20 yards. I was reminded of the
young McGrath I saw play in midfield for Man Utd. against Juventus 10 years
back, when he held Boniek stride-for-stride over 50 yards...and Boniek's
possibly the fastest player I've ever seen. Townsend must have iron lungs; his
interception and break in the last minute (admittedly, he made for the corner
flag rather than the penalty area!) must have been the most demoralising moment
of the lot for Italy.

I watched the game in a Minorcan bar along with my wife (Italian) and 3 year
old daughter (more interested in persuading me to teach her how to play
pinball!), and another Italian couple. The Italian contingent took defeat
pretty well, thugh they had few kind words for their own team. The wife took
the baby off to bed early in the second half; her parting shot was: "You'll see
- we'll score now!", and at that moment, Signori very nearly did, with Italy's
only decent shot of the game! The Spaniards in the bar seemed to be supporting
Italy (Latin solidarity!), but there were a fair number of English tourists too
(I think the inhabitants of Yorkshire/Lancashire regard Minorca as a second
home!) a    nd they were well behind Irel Good atmosphere - nothing too
serious.

Gotta hurry - here are a few fragments from the Italian camp:

- Most hilarious quote of the night? Beppe Signori, the Lazio forward: "Well, I
  wouldn't like to be in Ireland's shoes. If they play like that, they won't go
  far in this tournament". Nice one, Beppe!

- The general consensus here is that Italy got little right. The main targets
  for derision were Pagliuca (I thought he was at fault with the goal, but kept
  Italy in the game in the 2nd half), Albertini (was he playing?) and Tassotti
  (leaden-footed). The press reckon that Casiraghi, Massaro, Berti and
  Bennarivo will now come into the side, in place of Evani, Donadoni, Tassotti
  and A.N. Other.

- Most people here, including Pagliuca, thought that Houghton mishit his shot
  and shot without even looking. Possibly, but you can't begrudge Ireland the
  victory.

  Dom  

Can anyone out there settle an argument (Dom ?).

During the Ireland/Italy match George Hamilton, RTE's commentator, kept 
referring to the two Baggio's as brothers. This was news to me and most of 
us watching. Is it true or is it as accurate as Georges description of the 
'electric' stretchers.

Thanks,

Fintan
    

    .118
    
    as far as I know, they aren't even related
    
    
    Ray....

    Confirmed. Roberto is from Vicenza; Dino is from...er, somewhere else
    (near Turin, I think).
    
    Dom=

    Incidentally, was anyone else struck by the similarities between the
    Italy vs. Ireland match and the England vs. Ireland match during EC88?
    
    Same scoreline, same scorer, goal scored in the first 15 minutes, etc.
    Although I think it's fair to say that England did trouble Bonner a
    little more than Italy did after they went behind ;-)
    
    Dom

    I've been busy all week so far but better late than never.
    
    Well done Big Jack and the team. I hope the old farts at Lancaster Gate
    were watching.
    
    Paul.
    

    
    Rene,
         There are two reasons why it's a hooligan free World Cup.
    
        1. A slap, and a kick up the arse to the folks in the states is 
           regarded as pretty tame compared to what they are used to.
           I mean, would they stop all there programmes and go over live
           to watch a few supporters cuffing each other, I don't think so. 
    
           
        2. The lager is also pi** poor...
    
    
    Neil..

   Common Neil your up to win a fortune if Ireland win!!!!    Well I won a few
marks on Sat night in the Irish pub down here in Germany.. I tipped the right
result.... There were 4 or 5 Italians fans present and we had a lot of fun...

   Very good game, and a deserved win as well..... Fridays story will be
different in Orlando.... 35-40 degree heat and 75-95% humidty aren't perfect
conditions for playing footie!!!!!!   

   Are Phelan, Irwin, and Coyne out for fridays game because they got booked????

 Well the best games take place in the early hours and the worst games so far
have been the two games by the Germans....


                                                         all the best......


                                                               -davie-

    was there any trouble after the Italy/Ireland game. I heard reports
    that the police were really worried.
    

    Dave,
    
    Re:
    
>   Are Phelan, Irwin, & Coyne out for fridays game because they got booked?
    
    
    Thankfully not !  Two Yellows results in a one-match ban, so they'll be
    OK on Friday. They'll have to behave themselves though !
    
    
    Jerry.
    

    re .126
    
    There was absolutely no trouble after the game on Saturday. A few fans
    who tried to get on the pitch after the win were led away by the cops
    and let out a side entrance. The  Irish fans have never caused any
    trouble! This was scare-mongering by the media. Any of the cops I saw
    interviewed said that the media were making mountains out of
    mole-hills.
    
    Joe.

    
    I see FIFA have had enough of that Geordie big mouth and have told him
    to "shut it" .. "No other coach or team has seen fit to make
    any criticism. But Mr Charlton is attacking FIFA almost daily". Said
    Secretary Blatter.. 
    
    Neil... 

    Neil
    
    I'm tempted to say `it takes one to know one', but I won't....
    
    Ray....

I wonder Neil how many other managers will be chucking bags of water onto the
Pitch now that ol' "Big mouth" has got that concession out of FIFA.
Obviously if they didn't need it they won't use it.
Maybe it's like a lot of things where only people with guts and balls will stand
up against the "System" instead of cowering in corner and waiting for somebody
else to do the dirty work.
You can bet that they were all complaining behind FIFA's back but they were also
afraid of upsetting Mr. Bladder & Havealunch.
How many complained openly over the blatent way in which Pele was not included
in any of the opening ceremonies because of Havealunchs' whim.
To me Hypocrites stink. If you have something to say and complain about well
then do it but you can't expect things to change while sitting on your arse.

Jack got on with getting what he wanted for the well being and health of his
players( not to gain an unfair advantage or to create turmoil ) and if you can't
respect a motive like that well you must really be one sad person.



Peter.

re:-1

I agree totally. Jack had the bottle to stand up for his players against the
ridiculous FIFA regs. Compared to the whining at linesmen that England's last
manager got up to Jack comes out light years ahead.

Mike

    re: last few
    
    PHAYDEN is 100% right about Charlton. All teams will benefit from
    Jack's efforts. FIFA are a bunch of self-serving incompetents.
    Charlton is definitely a Geordie but foul mouthed? I don't think so.
    He's also not a yob but he could find some in this conference if he
    wanted to.
    
    Now he may be annoying, especially if you're (a) a FIFA freeloader or
    (b) English but these are subjective cases and not representative of
    informed opinion.
    
    Paul

    
    Re: last few..
    
    Your sad....You really are.....
    
    Neil.. 

    
    Charlton has build a great team. And like he's team fight for him on
    the pitch, he fights for them off the pitch. I think he does his team a
    great service. 

    Quite frankly I would rather have one of lifes irritants as a manager
    then one of lifes losers.

    
    Big Jack is my bloody hero!
    He says what he believes is right, and usually, what he believes *is*
    right.
    
    Crack on.
    Al.

    So Jack Charlton is getting a ticking off for trying to stop his and
    other teams players from getting seriously dehydrated. I would have
    thought that after what had happend to Tommy Coyne F.I.F.A. would have
    relented,but it seems like the same kind of people run F.I.F.A. as those
    in the F.A. 
    
    
    
    
    As a sideline, some smart ass Americans have decided that the World Cup
    cannot be called the World Cup as you cannot drink from the trophy.
    Haven't some people got better things to do ?
    
    
    Rich.

    
    I can't belive you lot really like him, he annoy's me no end. His voice,
    attitude everyting about him grates on my nerves...You all say you like
    him but in the next breathe have a dig at Graham Taylor, the thing is,
    they are clones of each other....Both have the tendency to wind folk
    up before opening there gob...The only differance is one turned a bunch
    of average players into a team, the other turned a great team into a bunch
    of average players..          
    
    Neil.. 

I have to agree with Peter and Paul (no pun intended) that Jack was the
only person with a bit of backbone to stand up to the sheer incompetence of
FIFA.  What does FIFA want - a person to fall over on the playing pitch
from dehydration or even more tragic to die from it before they will change
the insane rule they have concocted to increase the viewability of football
in certain parts of the world.  

Now wouldn't that go down a dream with the American audience - all the
careful marketing done by FIFA of the game in the States would be down the
drain instantly if something like the above happened?  These idiots can
only see $$$ signs and care not a whit about the fans, players or managers. 

You only have to look as far as the attitude they took to the complaint by
Jack.  If these people had been reasonable, Jack would have only had to
make one complaint and the situation would have been altered for the better
immediately.  

Fair play Jackie!  It's but another reason why his/our players are
literally willing to work their hearts out for manager/nation, unlike other
countries players close at hand who aren't in the world cup finals as we
speak.  Just another reason why the Irish are one of the more successful
international side in the world at the moment...

Live by your principles and they will stand to you forever.  

                             James.

    
    The problem is, it's Irelands huff and puff game. All apart from Norway
    (who didn't seem to have any problems) teams have players who can pass
    and slow the game down, you don't want to leg it around like demented 
    chickens for 90 mins. Not in that heat and thats the majority of Irelands
    game apart from passing it back to Bonner in goal and let him have ago
    at hoofing it up the middle...If they really want water they can get
    it, just as they did in the game against Italy. Makes you wonder
    wheather Coyne actually collapsed on that plane. Personally, I think
    it's another one of Jacks little ploys, it got FIFA to climb down, and
    in turn has taken the pressure off his players by all the media hype 
    surrounding it...  
    
    Neil..  

    
    Neil, you're a lost soul really aren't you.....
    
    FACT: You don't like Jack Charlton...no matter what he did.
    
    FACT: Most other noters think he is OK ...from taking a balanced view on
    	  the facts as they are presented.
    
    FACT: You've a bigotted viewpoint...NOT ONCE did you praise anything
    	  that the Irish team has done eventhough the Germans AND Italians
    	  recognise their achievements.
    
    FACT: You don't even have a sense of humour...if you did you would have
          recognised the irony of getting the Irish team in your
    	  sweepstake.
    
    FACT: You've more place in the pussy-cats conference....then maybe you
    	  will get the opportunity to scratch somebody's eyes out.
    
    
    FACT to be established: I think most other noters would agree with the
    	 facts as they are presented above.
    
    PROPOSAL: Let others enjoy the World CUP without having to read your
    literary sub-standard and adolescent points of view.
    
    
    Kind Regards,
    
    Dezzz.
    

    I agree with the facts ... this time :)
    
    

    
    Re:143
    
    (-:
    
    I really do like Jack, he's done a great job with the bunch of
    Irishmen, great result against Germany, super result against Holland,
    brilliant result against Italy....And blow me how funny I've picked 
    Ireland in the sweepstake. Ha ha ha . I must go home and have a saucer
    of milk..
     

    
    That's the spirit Neil....now it's not that difficult to be a
    reasonable sort of chap is it now .
    
    Dezzz. 

    >FACT: You've a bigotted viewpoint...NOT ONCE did you praise anything
    >	  that the Irish team has done eventhough the Germans AND Italians
    >	  recognise their achievements.
    
    Dezz,
    
    I'd say it was more to the point (given Neil's nationality) that 99.99%
    of the English in this conference have also recognised Ireland's
    achievements - perhaps more so than people from any other country.
    
    FACT: This invariably gets ignored and we then have to put up with the same
          old crap about whingeing - hardly true in view of the evidence.
    
    Dom                                           
    

    
    No your right Dzzzzzz it's not that difficult. Now you try and walk
    around with a smile on your face and people won't keep thinking your a
    boring twat....
    
    Neil....

    
    Dom, I was referring to the Germans and Italians as far as Vogts and
    his players and Sacchi and his players...But I do however get your
    point...stereotyping/gereralisation is a danger....I did say however
    that the majority of noters do have a balanced and fair opinion which
    would mutually imply a good cross-section of nationalities.
    
    Neil, charming as ever....
    
    Dezzz.

    		Norway 0   Italy 1

    By far the worst game of the tournament so far.  Norway looked as 
    though all they had come to do was play for a draw.  Italy's 
    goalkeeper sent off early in the first half for handling outside 
    of the box, and Baggio (this was Eur player of the year???) was 
    subbed for a new goalie.

    Even then Norway still refused to attack except with a few badly
    directed long balls that went nowhere.  Italy gradually realized
    they had no opposition and started to attack themselves.
    Eventually they got the important goal following a free kick from
    out on the left.  The goalie who had had a good game, albeit
    fairly quiet, stood on his line as a header went through his hands
    into the roof of the net from the other Baggio. Now with 20 mins
    to go Norway actually got into the Italian half and had a few
    chances but they looked very devoid of ideas as to how to get the 
    ball under control and into the penalty area. They did actually 
    get the ball into the net but it was another 'hand of God' that 
    the archangel with the whistle spotted!

    I hope neither of these teams ends up in Foxboro in the next 
    round!  I've got tickets. A 1-0 win to Mexico tomorrow and this 
    group can start again.

    Gerry

    
    I'd have to say an excellent result for the Italians, who tried to
    play despite being down to nine men and then playing the last few
    minutes with only 7 fit men on the pitch. 
    
    All I'll say about Norway is the quicker they get on the plane home the 
    better. 
    
    Does anyone know what happens if Mexico were to beat Ireland 1-0 today,
    and the remaining two games end up as draws..?
    
    Dave... 

    I wanted to say what .-1 and .-2 said but I thought ... na I can't be
    that hard on Norway .... but they were a load of crap, I feel sorry for
    Italy having to play them. Norway are VERY hard in their game, they showed
    no flair what so ever.

    Italy are a talented team, and may still do great things this year.

    Why was baggio subbed ?

    Baggio got subbed because the Italian keeper got sent off.
    They had to bring on another goalie and you can't really take off
    a defender when you're down to 10 men. The keeper got sent off
    for handling the ball outside the area after diving at the feet
    of an attacker.

    
    Ive just heard that Italy made three outfield substitutions, I must
    admit when Baresi went off I thought they were down to nine men, but
    apparently they subbed Baresi, casaraghi and Baggio.
    
    They could be in trouble now.
    
    Dave...

    But Baggio was subbed for a keeper, and the FIFA rules apparently state
    that the keeper can be a third sub under ANY circumstances.
    
    As for the game, I don't agree it was the worst, it was half the worst,
    the half played by the Norwegians. Well, to say they played half is a
    complement. They were dire. Over physical, over defensive, lets hope
    they go out as unlucky thirds. Italy did a superb job and never gave
    up, they had loads more spirit than I would have expected on past
    performances.
    
    FIFA award for stupidity:
    
    Casiraghi goes down stunned after an elbow in the head. Ball kicked
    out, trainer and stretcher on. After some water and smelling salts,
    Casiraghi gets up to play on only to be threatened with a card by the
    ref cos he hasn't gone off. Everybody realises that he has already been
    booked so another card and he's off. Jumps on stretcher, carried to
    side of pitch, runs back on. What a farce.
    
    FIFA award for mean spiritedness:
    
    The referee for forcing the obviously seriously injured Maldini to run
    back to the half way line to return to the pitch rather than come on
    where he was treated.
    
    Paul

    re .-1 
    
    That was my understanding also, my question was regarding the choice of
    baggio.
    

    At the end of the match Italy were effectively down to 8 men, with
    Maldini and Dino Baggio both walking wounded. Glad I didn't watch the
    first half - it sounded as though most of the action (apart from the
    sending off) came in the last half-hour or so. Good goal - whipped
    cross, well met by Baggio.
    
    Did anyone stop up till 2 or 3 to (European time) to watch Bolivia
    v Korea ? I thought about it for about a pico-second.
    
    Paul.
    

    
    Delighted with the result ....The Italians played against the
    Norwegians who didn't...The referee was awful....
    
    This Dino lad has scored some important goals......
    
    Dezzz. 

    Yes I watched it and it made the Italy Norway match look like a
    classic. 0-0 with little skill and over 103 minutes playing time
    allowed by Les Mottram , Scotland's FIFA ref. Bolivia had another
    player sent off for a double-booking (Christadalos or something)
    and Korea almost scored with the last kick but were denied by a 
    good save. All in all it was kak.
    
    Kev...

    >> But baggio was subbed for the keeper
    >> Keeper may be a third sub ...etc
    
    The keeper was sent-off, he wasn't subbed. The substitution was made
    becuase Italy then hadn't got a keeper.
                       
    The third sub rule is for when you've already made two subs and you
    have an injured keeper.

    
    re.158
    
    > Glad I didn't watch the first half - it sounded as though most of the
    > action (apart from the sending off) came in the last half-hour or so. 
    
    not at all, the Italians came out like men possessed and besieged
    Norways goal (a la Brazil v russia) until their keeper got sent off as
    Norway were on a counter attack. 
    
    I missed the second half, what happened to Maldini and the other bloke?
    why were they injured?
    
    Ian.

    >I missed the second half, what happened to Maldini and the other bloke?
    >why were they injured?
    
    Maldini was in a bad way... he twisted his ankle in a challenge
    at the end-line, and the physio strapped up his boot with 
    support tape, so he hobbled around for the last ten minutes.
    It was ridiculous to see the ref ordering him up to the 
    half way line before he'd let him on... I don't know
    where FIFA get some of their ideas from.
    
    I thought the Italians showed great spirit (especially Signori)
    and I reckon they could go on to win the trophy (unless they
    meet Ireland on the way!)
    
    Jim.

    I was really pleased with the result - and apalled with the Norwegians.
    What lack of ambition considering they had a one player advantage.
    Totally agree with our Gary (Lineker) who didn't exactly pull his
    punches ("Norway were pathetic" "Appalling" and words to the extent
    that it would be good for Norway to go home asap.)
    
    After the goal the Italians really were inspired until injuries hit
    them. I didn't notice the third substitution - but heard the
    commentators talking about the possibility. I couldn't work out how it
    would be allowed. But if it happened then the referee must have allowed
    it - so I would have thought it was down to him.
    
    /phil

    
    I thought the Italians played with great spirit and determination. They
    deserved their win, but (having drawn them in the department
    sweepstake) I'm worried about the extent of their injuries. Does anyone
    know? Baresi and Maldini seemed in a pretty bad way.
    
    DaveT

    
    	What does all this say about England's inability to qualify? Ever
    	since that fateful day in Oslo we've been hearing these experts
    	predicting how difficult the Norwegians will be in USA and they'd
    	come up with some surprises for the more fancied teams etc etc.
    	Most of this was prompted by the fact that half the team play in 
    	the Premier League, widely reported on TV as the hardest league
    	in the solar system....
    
    	All this just because they took three points out of England in
    	the qualifying phase. What a load of crap. We were dismal in 
    	Norway against what is being shown as an ordinary team. Well
    	done Italy, and lets hope the paddies go on to whack them next
    	week to put them on the big silver bird back to the land of the
    	vikings.
    
    	Andy.
                               

    Baggio pulled up as though he'd got cramp but the commentators thought
    that by the way he was running it could be a calf muscle strain. I
    think he was more badly injured after the final whistle when one of the
    Italian entourage jumped on him to congratulate him on the goal and
    nutted him in the face - he didn't look too impressed.
    
    Paul.
    

    Dino B. seemed to hurt his foot when he took a shot from quite a long
    way out. He limped from then on. It was was hilarious when that little
    chap jumped up and nutted him while trying to kiss him!
    
    DaveT

    
    I don't think England should worry too much about losing
    three points to Norway in the qualifiers. That's all in
    the past, and as John Giles said on TV last night,
    England were a shambles in Oslo that night. (It just goes
    to show what difference a manager can make to a team).
    
    On their day, I'd say England are a match for most teams...
    
    I wonder why they never gave the Manager's job
    to one of the winning players in 66 ? 
    
    Jim.                     
    

    
    re: -1 
    
    Other not-qualified good teams have the same thing in mind.
    
    After having seen Bulgaria, I am sure that France would have been far
    better. The Danes might also have the same feeling (not vis-a-vis
    Ireland or Spain, but Greece or Norway).
    
    But we are NOT qualified. And we have to accept it.
    
    Pierre-Yves (French and disappointed) 

Somebody asked a few back why did Saachi take off Roberto Baggio.

Perhaps Saachi figured that they should play for the draw with 10
men and save Baggio for the final match against Mexico in the hope
that Italy would get a win against Mexico. As it turned out the
10 on the pitch played their hearts out against a Norway side
playing for the draw. Italy got the result they deserved.

Forza Italia.

/Kev

    Interesting contrast on Irish TV last night about Baggio.
    
    The two panelists were shocked, (Joe Kinnear and Johnny 
    Giles). The said that in such a difficult situation
    you need the man most likely to provide inspriation
    to stay on the pitch.
    
    Then there was an interview with Jack Charlton, and he
    said the first player he would have taken off was 
    Baggio. He said that the team needed to keeps its midfield
    and that Signori was playing too well to be taken off.
    He also thought that Italy would win (even with 10 men).
    
    Jim.
    

    The withdrawal of Baggio really is provoking some debate!
    
    Sacchi was quoted as saying that he really needed 10 men who could run
    like demons in the heat. Baggio is not famed for his workrate. Add to
    that the fact that he's had problems with sore tendons recently (and
    probably would have needed to be replaced in the last half hour
    regardless), and Sacchi's decision becomes that much more
    comprehensible.
    
    Well-deserved win for Italy - they really did dig deep into their
    reserves. Norway deserved nowt...and got it!
    
    Dom

As Big Jack is keeping with the same team - one or two of his players are
deviously attempting to get picked for the starting 11, by using devious means.
Now everyone accepts (I think) that Roy Keane has a silly beard... but then 
Jack always selects him... well now Tony Cascarino and John Aldridge have grown
Keano beards. I think their plan is that - Jack being pretty useless at 
remembering names will say "Maurice, I want the guy with the silly beard in the
team" leaving Maurice Setters with a big dilemma.

Seriously, good luck to the Irish tonight... it is at times like this that I 
remember that my mum is from Limerick, and I forget my dad is English ;-).

I bet they can't wait to play Norway.. they were dreadful and I cheered when
Dino Baggio scored.

Norman

    >I wonder why they never gave the Manager's job
    >to one of the winning players in 66 ? 
    
    Jim,
    
    Jack Charlton perhaps?
    

    
    I know Jack applied back in 84 or someyear like that, and
    he never got a reply. Then again, not many of the England
    team of 66 went into management. All the same, I reckon 
    that a World Cup winner will always have the confidence
    to repeat the success as a manager.... 
    
    anyway.... here's hoping for a good Irish performance,
    I think we've the team to get a result.... although Mexico
    will be hard to beat, they won 3-0 against Northern Ireland
    a few weeks ago.
    
    Jim.            
    
    

    As a further comment on workrate of the Italian players.
    
    Did anyone notice Berti.... For the last 30 minutes he really did'nt
    want to know.He simply picked the ball up went a little way with ball
    and passed it on,he appeared to have no intention of picking up a
    return pass.I was very disapointed with his workrate.
    
    And Casirahgi,well...... he did'nt come off soon enough,no wonder he
    fails to get a game for Lazio.
    
    My tuppence worth.
    
    
    Steve.

    >I don't think England should worry too much about losing
    >three points to Norway in the qualifiers. That's all in
    >the past, and as John Giles said on TV last night,
    >England were a shambles in Oslo that night. (It just goes
    >to show what difference a manager can make to a team).
    >
    >On their day, I'd say England are a match for most teams...
    
    Very gracious of you, Jim! (Duggan *is* an Irish name , isn't it?).
    
    To be fair to Norway, the dominant feature of international football
    thses days seems to be inconsistency. Are Germany the team that lost
    0-2 to Ireland, or the team that beat Italy 2-1 (should have been
    5-1). Are Italy the team that dominated Norway last night, or the team
    that failed miserably against Ireland? As for Colombia beating
    Argentina 5-0 and then screwing up against the U.S., no comment.
    
    I was astonished by Norway last night. True, they looked very mediocre
    at Wembley last year and clinched a 1-1 with their only shot of the
    game. But at least they looked *gritty*. Last night's was the worst
    performance I've ever see from a team with a one man advantage. I
    really thought that Norway had a good chance of reaching the
    quarter-finals; they seeme(ed) to have made the transition from being
    11 big, hard running athletes to being a tactically aware team with a
    very astute manager. Nothing of the sort (at least on yesterday's
    performance)! The again, Norway in Oslo did look a different cup ,of
    tea entirely and deservedly won 2-0 on the night. Will the real Norway
    plese stand up? 
    
    So many international teams seem to have trouble putting 2 or 3 good
    results together (Rumania are another example). Still, I hope they
    don't return to their winning ways against Ireland ;-)
    
    As for the reference to England, my own feeling (when I see England
    beat Denmark and thrash Greece 5-0 at Wembley) is that EC96 still
    seems a long way off. Especially for players the wrong side of 30, like
    Peter Beardsley.
    
    Dom
    
    P.S. I think it's imperative that Jack Charlton gives people like Kelly
    and McAteer a run out tonight, at least for half an hour (result
    permitting). Refreshments or not, Coyne will collapse sooner or later.
    
    Ireland aren't the only tame playing the 4-5-1 formation in this WC.
    But they're the only team who require their front man to run up and
    down the line, harassing defenders and pulling them out of position.
    Personally, I'd put more money on Dennis Irwin scoring in this World
    Cup than Coyne; his role just doesn't allow him to get into scoring
    positions (to the benefit of people like Keane, Sheridan and,
    especially, Townsend).

    .166
    Dead on. 
    
    
    It certainly looks like the right descision was made, bringing Baggio
    off. If Italy had lost, you can imagine whose head the Italian press
    would have been calling for! - brave descision indeed.
    Italy out-played Norway by a long way, and deserved the victory. I hope
    they get through to the next round (though not at the expense of
    Ireland).
    EVERYBODY I've spoken to who saw the match couldn't believe how Norway
    played - obviously playing for the draw. I've nothing against 'hard'
    play, but the way the Norwegians were playing was both hard and
    offensive. Not nice to watch - I hope they're not in the next round.
    
    Al.

    Dom,
    
    Right first time, Duggan is an Irish name!
    
    I work in Galway and sit not-too-far-away from a celt
    of renounded impartiality.
    
    I'd agree that there seem to be a lot of apparent
    inconsistencies in results of late. Maybe we're writing off
    Norway too soon, but I think they are a bit limited in
    their play and they remind me of Ireland in 1990 (very
    direct football). Romania are a mystery and I never would
    have predicted their collapse against Switzerland. 
    
    As for Ireland, I think it's our best ever team. We're far
    more subtle that Italia 90 in that we have more  constructive
    players. For example, compare our back-four from 90. Then
    it was Morris, McCarthy, Moran, Staunton. None of these
    were really comfortable on the ball, and now we have
    Irwin, Babb, McGrath and Phelan which is possibly the best
    defence in the World Cup. 
    
    Ole ole,
    Jim. 

  Sacchi showed big coconuts in taking of Roberto Baggio last night.. and fair
dew in payed off...  

  Re .166 Andy Iam sure we all appreciate your comments in note .166 and its
great to hear ya pulling for us "paddies".....

  Someone mentioned what happens if Mexico beat us tonight 1-0 and the last two
games are indentical draws??? Well I'll tell ya what I'll do.. open a bottle of
Bushmills (malt) drink a few a scoulps and then hope the luck of the Irish comes
out!!! All four teams will pull straws to see who finishes 1st to 4th. the 3rd
will probably get through as well.....

   Well I for one would be happy with a draw tonight, I reckon the heat and
humidty at Orlando will be of no help to us... does anyone know whose playing
in green tonight???? as both teams normally play in green....  

                                                      all the best.....

                                                           -dave-

    Had my ears boxed by the wife yesterday (and in particular by our next
    door neighbours for not jumping up and down like a nutter a)when Italy
    scored and b)when the match finished. They were all out on the balcony
    with their flags and klaxons; I was putting the kettle on for a cup of
    tea. The next door neighbour even leered to me: "So where's England?".
    But I had the answer ready:"Just to the east of Ireland - I'm sure you
    know where that is!"
    
    The football-lover in me says that Italy thoroughly deserved their win
    (perhaps 2-0 would have been fairer), and Norway should be sent back
    home on the next plane. But it's hard being a foreigner here when you
    hear commentators saying that Norway and Ireland are two very average
    teams and an on-form Italy would take them both to the cleaners. Flags
    and banners everywhere...we are the greatest...who's next for the
    slaughter, etc.
    
    Before the match, we were treated to all the Italian goals from the
    last 30 World Cups - to a backing track of "We Are The World"! I kid
    you not.
    
    Dom

    re 181:
    
    Mexico are in green. 
    
    That straws scenario looks like a heartstopper!
    
    Jim.
    
    PS You should try and pick up Gabriel Egan on Astra with Jim Beglin,
       they do a great commentary.

    Dom,
    I feel for you, I really do! - Imagine what it was like here, as an
    English supporter in Germany when they beat us in the semi's in Italy.
    The worst day of my life (that I'm prepared to share with you lot).
    
    Chin up, at least you have the sure knowledge that Ireland are better
    than they are (remember the golden rule - you're only as good as your
    last game).
    
    Al.

    
    All the best to Ireland tonight. If you have half the luck Jerry has
    when we're playing pool you won't have any troubles. If you play the
    same way you did against Italy you won't need any luck. My Guinness
    is waiting in the fridge & an Irish wins would nicely round off my
    birthday. 8-)
    
    JBG

    Here's an interesting fact which I just found out.
    
    Did you know that the word 'OLE', which we all have taken great liking
    to singing during matches, actually means 'Smell'.
    
    So lads, when we're down the pub tonight singing "Ole,Ole,Ole,Ole..."
    we will actually be singing about a smell. 
    
    All the same, it might distract the Mexicans !!!
    
    Ole, Ole Ole Ole, Ole, Ole........
    
    Michael 

    
    Oh, I nearly forgot, congrats to you Italians. A great backs-to-the-wall
    effort produced a well deserved win. I still fancy Italy to make it at
    least to the semis.
    
    JBG

    any news on the Irish team ?

    re: .184
    >Dom,
    >I feel for you, I really do! - Imagine what it was like here, as an
    >English supporter in Germany when they beat us in the semi's in Italy.
    >The worst day of my life (that I'm prepared to share with you lot).
    
    Thanks for the solidarity, Al! I guess you've got to go through it to
    appreciate it ;-)
    
    Dom

   
    Bobby Moore also had an unsuccessful go at management (with Southend I 
    think?)
    
    Ray Wilson was a more successful manager - unfortunately it was of an
    undertaker's business, not a footy team!!!
    
    Dave C.
    
    

    RE.185
    Happy birthday!
    
    RE. a whole lot back
    About the three Italian substitutes.
    It says in the WC rules that a team can only substitute 2 players and 1
    goal keeper, *unless* the keeper is sent of, in which case a player can
    be substituted for a keeper.
    
    Well, if that wasn't the case, you could always put a player in the
    goal, and then, at the first interuption, replace the keeper for
    another keeper, right?
    
    Marcel.

	Alan Ball played in WC66, and is now managing Southampton.

	I leave it as an exercise to the reader to decide whether he should
	be running the England team.

	Tony

    Final score:  Mexico 2, Ireland 1.  Garcia scores both goals for
    Mexico, one late in the first helf and the other early in the second. 
    Mexico carries most of the play until the final 10 minutes, when they
    decide to get too cute with the ball, and Aldridge eventually scored on
    a header seven minutes from time.
    
    NAZZ

    		Mexico 2   Ireland 1

    A very good game that the weather eventually won (110 degrees F on
    the field and very high humidity as well).  Two excellently taken
    goals by Mexico after some sloppy marking at the back.  The Irish
    defence did not play as well today as the previous game - McGrath
    was nothing like as commanding.  The game looked as though it was
    slipping away from Ireland until as excellent header from Aldridge
    put Ireland back in it with 6 mins left.  Heavy pressure but with
    players almost out on their feet they could not find the
    equalizer. 

    The Irish seemed to be conserving energy in the first half with
    the result that they were nothing like as quick in passing or
    moving the ball as the previous game, allowing Mexico to catch
    them in possession too often. 

    Ref - fairly good game though a couple of the cards seemed to be 
    for offences that were no worse than every other - cumulative 
    effect I suspect.

    What was that FIFA official doing trying to prevent Aldridge from
    coming on?  He had NO business getting involved in the game - that
    is SOLELY the job of the ref and linesmen.  I hope to hear he has
    been severely reprimanded. If the players and coaches have to
    start worrying about guys in blue jackets as well as yellow and 
    maroon and silver shirts, they'll go nuts.  It very nearly led to 
    an almighty punch-up - only the heat prevented it.

    This group is really interesting now - wide open.

    Gerry

    Yup, Ireland suffered in the heat bigtime. The temp on the pitch was
    110 degress (45 Celsius!) 
    This is the lowest workrate I've seen Ireland turn in since possibly Egypt
    in 1990. Aldridge had a great row with the FIFA official as he tried to 
    come on after the second goal. It was plain on US TV (ESPN) that he called 
    the official "a f***ing dickhead". Then Big Jack had a go at the guy. I'll 
    bet there's trouble over that!
    
    The two Mexican goals were well taken, but were basically due to the
    defense having big holes in it due to players not covering back. The
    Irish goal was  a classic "Aldo"!!
    
    Ah well, Norway next week in a mere 90 degrees.  
    
    Joe.

    Well done Mexico... Garcia took his goals well. I think
    Ireland sat back too much in the first half but at least
    showed some spirit with Aldridge's goal (nice move too!)
    
    A lot of ifs I suppose... if Coyne had scored, if Sheridan
    had equalised, if someone had tracked down Garcia...
    but then again Mexico had about four other scoring chances.
    
    This group could fall any way, it will be tough against 
    Norway, and Italy will find it hard against Mexico.
    
    Jim.
                                               

    
    Jack got charged #10,000 and must sit in the stadium for the rest
    of the matches, Aldridge got a fine of #1,200.
    
    Barry.

    
    Well, the Mexican goalkeeper wea right...'they'll die in the heat'
    
    The Irish threw away an early chance from Coyne and allowed the
    Mexicans to dominate for most of the game apart from maybe the last 10
    minutes.  A fully deserved victory by a team who were much more used to
    playing in 'how shall we say' sunnier climes and adopted their strategy
    likewise. The Irish workrate was as high as could be expected though
    Houghton was sadly lacking...
    
    Hindsight is 20-20 vision though maybe Jack could have injected some
    youth in the middle after the break.
    
    The FIFA incident was unfortunate though Jack and the players will have
    to learn to be at least 50-50 with these autocrats. 
    
    Should be an interesting last round of matches with Italy being able to
    pip the bouncing Mexicans and Ireland trying for the victory in the
    releatively 'cooler' New York.
     
    Dezzz.
    
      

    
    I'M not one to gloat...But Jack's ploy of winding up FIFA has back
    fired, he was fined 10.000 pounds for constant bad behaviour, banned
    from the dug-out for one game (Norway). Aldridge was fined 1500 pounds
    for his absurd outburst at a FIFA official and quite frankly got off 
    lightly, I was shocked that a professional footballer could act in such
    crazed manner, he was lucky not to be sent off before he even got on..
    As for the game, Mexico thoughly deserved the victory and the Irish goal
    could prove to be very very important...But a gritty performance was once
    again overshadowed by Jack " I'm bigger than FIFA" Charlton...And also
    the Irish FA was fined 10.000...Disgusting behaviour...I think the Fair 
    play award is out of the question....
    
    Come on Jack you obviously can't handle the pressure retire NOW before
    the ole ticker goes...
                                         
    Neil...
    

    re last
    
    You forgot the smileys Neil.....
     

    
    I never noticied this at the time as I was to concerned with the match
    but apparently Ireland where playing with 10 men and for some odd ball
    reason Aldridge was not let on. Considering the way the game was going
    and we needed to get back into it fast I think that FIFA rep should
    have been strung up, it is impossible to be anything but completely
    pissed off
     
    Barry.

    
    re > I'M not one to gloat...But Jack's ploy of winding up FIFA has back
    
    snigger ....
               ....

My main surprise for the Ireland v Mexico game is that Jack kept the same
team as for the Italy match.... Everyone keeps going on about the heat and each
game is a 13 (sometomes 14 ;-)) man game.... and if this is true wouldn't it
have been a better idea to use more of the squad players, to give Townsend, 
Coyne etc. time to recover for the Norway game? Other members of the squad 
may not be considered to be as good?... but you can't close a team as 
good as Mexico down with tired players.

Norman

    re .200
    
    Really Neil, you're so predictable.
    
    Cheers then
    
    Jim

    First of all:
    Too bad Ireland lost. But, well played by the Mexicans.
    
    What was that Irish attacker (Coine or something) doing?
    He should have scored twice in the first half. 5th minute and 40th
    minute. Why did he dive on top of the ball instead of hitting it in
    with his head?  :)
    
    Marcel
    
    Could be exciting: How about Ireland - Norway 1 - 1 and Italy - Mexico
    0 - 0, table:
    Ireland  4 (3-3)
    Norway   4 (2-2)
    Mexico   4 (2-2)
    Italy    4 (1-1)  ---> Italy going home with 4 points. That would be
    surprising, to say the least...

    
    The always-controversial journalist and ex-Millwall player
    Eamon Dunphy had an interesting article in one of sunday's
    papers. He said that Jack had "reverted to type" for the 
    Mexican game and had abandoned Ireland's recent tactics
    for the long-ball game. He reckons Charlton underestimates
    the skill of the team, and that his limited ambition means
    that Ireland might not go as far as they could in the 
    tournament. 
    
    I hope they don't try and play for a draw on Tuesday, they
    should really aim for a win and try top the group to stay
    in New York (and keep away from Orlando).
    
    Jim.                  
    
    
    
    

    Disappointing result for Ireland, though Mexico deserved their win.
    Still, Aldridge's goal could prove to be one of the most important he's
    ever scored. It catapulted Ireland from bottom place in the table to
    equal top (with Mexico), but more important, it prevents Italy and
    Norway from looking for anything other than a win in their final
    matches (if my calculations are correct).
    
    I have to question the logic of Ireland having only used 13 players so
    far. There were some pretty tired men on the field in the last half
    hour (40 degrees heat is no joke). Surely, either Kelly or McGlaughlin
    could have started the game and allowed Staunton or Keane a well-earned
    rest. Keane  had a very good game, but he looked exhausted at the end.
    I remember Babb having to wait 20-30 seconds for him to jog up to
    Mexico's penalty area for that last minute free kick! And, is it my
    imagination, or does he look like he's carrying some extra poundage? No
    comparison with Ronnie Whelan, but he looks like he's done too much
    weight training. He reminds me of Gabriela Sabatini (well, up to a
    point ;-)), who's gradually built up her power/strength to the
    detriment of her agility. 
    
    Not wishing to detract anything from the Mexicans (who were well worth
    their win), but I think Ireland would always be hard pushed to beat
    Mexico in a hot climate in the month of June. Surely there's a case for
    switching occasional World Cup competitions (say, every other edition)
    to the mid-season period when may countries in Northern/Eastern Europe
    are forced to suspend their national championships? The current system
    clearly benefits countries with hotter climates.
    
    DOm

    
    I cant see Norway looking for a win, they don't know how to (unless they
    are playing at home against England). 
    
    This has to be a draw, both teams are awfull anyway, with Ireland the 
    better of the two, but as far as entertaining the nuetrels... the only
    thing we can look foward to in this game is another outburst from Jack
    or one of his players, that was great....(-:
    
    Dave...
    
    
    
    

    The latest reports in England are that Baresi is out for the finals, 
    Maldini is also injured and will miss the Mexico game, Pagliuca
    is suspended until (if they reach this far) the qtr finals.   
    
    This means options at the back are limited. 
    
    For me the worse loss is Maldini. I think he is the successor to Baresi
    in the sweeper role, his loss means that the back four is :
    
    Tassotti or Bennarrivo
    Costacurta
    Apolloni
    Minotti or Evani
    
    I do not think they have played together too many times before. The
    Mexican strikers look quick and so the off-side tactic for this team is
    very dangerous. I would play Bennarrivo and Evani at full back as the
    Mexicans are very quick so the Azzurri need pace at the back.
    
    I think that Sacchi will play the midfield and forwards the same as
    Norway.
    
    So  :
    
    Berti
    D Baggio
    R Baggio
    Albertini
    Casiraghi
    Signori
    
    I would be tempted to play Massaro from the start as he is faster than
    Casiraghi and more mobile. Anway, just over 24 hrs away and we will
    know.                         
    
    I am interested to see whether it is best to win the group or
    come second. Winners play the second in group d (Nigeria or Bulgaria) in 
    New York and the second place go to Orlando to play the top in group F - 
    probably Belgium. 
                  
    Antony
    

    Antony,
    
    I don't think Baresi is a big loss, he looked far too 
    hesitant in both games and never once made one of 
    his renouned forward breaks. I think he's too old and
    that Maldini can do a far better job at libero (if he
    recovers in time).
    
    Jim.

    Look out below!

NORWEGIAN CHUCKS TV FROM THIRD FLOOR AFTER ITALY MATCH

OSLO, June 24 (Reuter) - An angry Norwegian threw his television set into the
street from the window of his third floor flat after Italy beat Norway 1-0 in
Thursday's World Cup soccer match, police said.

"A woman called to say that her neighbour had thrown out his TV after last
night's match," a police officer in Trondheim said.

No-one was injured by the falling television and police decided not to
investigate the case, he said.

Maldini's fit and takes over the captaincy tonight. Should be a great game - 
pity we won't be allowed to see it in Engalnd.

g

   Personally I hope we beat Norway and that we win the group and stay in "a
little cooler New York" where we would probably meet Nigeria... But as long as
we make it to the next round that's more important.....

   Dave you state in .209 that "both teams are awfull anyway" God you must be
hurtin not seeing Gazza running around heh?????? 

                                                                  -dave-

    
    re.214
    
    Dave,
    
    Not at all, anyway has'nt he got a broken leg..?, anyway I'm delighted
    we didnt qualify, having seen most of the games, the England side under
    Graham Taylor would have lost to almost everyone anyway.
    
    Dave...

    
    Personally, I hope Norway win. But most of all I hope football is the
    winner no more disgraceful scenes like we saw against the Mexicans, these
    pictures were shown all over the world and couldn't do much for the Irish
    credibillity. Because of the negative attitude of both sides this has
    got a draw written all over it, and for the life of me I don't no WHY
    the BBC are showing it. The other game in this group is a far better
    prospect, with both sides out to entertain the public.
    
    
    Neil.... 

I hope that we (Ireland) can do it tonight but it will be oh so difficult
against what will be a very resolute Norwegian team.  I go for a draw - 1-1
or 0-0 - with the other game giving a positive result either way.  This
will land us in 2nd place in the group and whatever it brings. 

Whichever way we end up in the group, the eighth-final match will be a
corker (Nigeria, Belgium or Argentina)!

I don't know which team I'd prefer to see Ireland play as all three teams
will pose dire threats to our progress in the World Cup.  I suppose I'll
have to wait and see like everyone else.

                           James.

Reuter report

NORWAY PREPARED FOR "LITTLE WAR" WITH IRISH

EAST RUTHERFORD, New Jersey, June 27 (Reuter) - Norwegian coach Egil Olsen
said on Monday his team was prepared for a "little war" with Ireland as the
two long ball exponents battle for a place in the second round on Tuesday.

The teams the critics love to hate clash with at least one place in the last
16 up for grabs from the deadlocked group E.

Ireland, Norway, Mexico and Italy all have three points from two games but
the Mexicans and the Irish enjoy the advantage of having scored a goal more
than their rivals.

So it all comes down to the final matches in which Italy play Mexico in
Washington while Ireland meet Norway here just outside of New York at the
same lunchtime hour.

A draw should put the Irish through and could condemn Norway to an early exit
in their first World Cup since 1938.

Coach Olsen clearly knows what to expect.

"It will be a tough game. Maybe like a little war. We are prepared to
participate in that war," he said. "There will be a lot of physical contact
and a lot of running."

Norwegian goalkeeper Erik Thorstvedt said the game should appeal to Americans
brought up on the brand of football the Giants Stadium normally hosts.

"Norway games are always entertaining," the Tottenham Hotspur goalkeeper
said. "I think Americans like the physical side of things -- they like to see
big guys crashing together in mid-air," he added.

Ireland, like Norway, are committed to going for all three points even though
a draw should be enough for them.

"I don't like playing for a draw against anyone," said Ireland coach Jack
Charlton.

The abrasive Charlton has been banned from the touchline for this vital game
after arguing with officials during his team's 2-1 defeat by Mexico on
Friday.

Assistant coach Maurice Setters will take charge down by the pitch while
Charlton is banished to the stand, from where he will communicate with the
bench via two-way radio.

Neither coach would announce his team on Monday.

Charlton is forced to change his two full-backs as both Denis Irwin and Terry
Phelan are suspended.

Gary Kelly, 19, is set to replace Irwin on the right while Steve Staunton
will drop back from midfield to fill the gap left by Phelan. Jason McAteer,
who has come on as substitute in the last two games, is expected to start in
midfield.

Norwegian defender Alf Inge Haaland is out of the game through supension and
his place could go to Gunnar Halle of Oldham Athletic, one of several
English-based players in the two squads.

Probable teams:

Ireland: 1-Pat Bonner; 12-Gary Kelly, 14-Phil Babb, 5-Paul McGrath, 11-Steve
Staunton; 6-Roy Keane, 7-Andy Townsend, 8-Ray Houghton, 10-John Sheridan,
21-Jason McAteer; 15-Tommy Coyne.

Norway: 1-Erik Thorstvedt; 2-Gunnar Halle, 20-Henning Berg, 4-Rune Bratseth,
5-Stig Inge Bjoernebye; 7-Erik Mykland, 8-Oevind Leonhardsen, 22-Lars
Bohinen, 11-Jahn Ivar Jakobsen, 6-Jostein Flo; 9-Jan Aage Fjoertoft.

Referee: Jose Joaquin Torres Cadena (Colombia)

Kickoff 1635 GMT.

    
    The Graham Taylor video was shown again last night, it got me thinking:
    
    If, and I am noting purely hypothetically, somebody were to be
    monitoring short wave radio somewhere near a stadium this evening, 
    and they happened to record about 90 minutes worth of pleasantries
    exchanged between a couple of men who didn't sound like Americans, 
    I wonder how entertaining this tape would be ?
    
    But then I guess this is illegal, right ?

Re.              <<< Note 382.219 by WOTVAX::GREENJA "Andy Green" >>>
                    -< Hey Maurice, where's my seat then ? >-


Ireland's 2FM breakfast show had a brilliant piece on this this morning.
It featured Jack and Maurice being interupted by Eamonn Dunphy on a on
another phone, with Eamonn berating Jack for not playing more through
midfield and Jack demanding to know who was interrupting him while he
was trying to run the game... Maurice was just confused.

The voices were brilliant!!!

Kevin.

    
    1635GMT - thats 17.35 UK time and 18.35 European time ?
    
    I take it that both games are being played at the same time ?  It's
    just that someone else in this conference implied they weren't.
    
    N.

    RE -1
    
    Both games are kicking off at 1735 Irish Time, which is
    1835 European time. 
    
    On TV last night there weemed to be an injury doubt about
    Paul McGrath and I think Jack has Alan Kernaghan on standby.
    
    McAteer will most likely start too, and maybe Aldridge will
    be given the striking role,
    
    should be a close game,
    Jim.

Ireland need to win tonight and hopefully win the group as this would mean that
they play their next match in New York, if they finish second then they go to
Orlando and from what we saw on Friday they were affected by the heat.

My prediction


Ireland 1 Norway 0


GS in Dublin

Still no team news from Ireland or Norway - McGrath has a late fitness test.

Apolloni replaces Baresi, and possibility of Hugo Sanchez playing.

g

is as expected - and Aldo replaces Coyne.

g

    Well,
    	Mexico did it. It is the first place of group E.
        So, I feel Mexico has done and will do more than it 
        was expected. Football is as exciting as surprising.
    	And in the same way the Mexican couch said:"We are
    	not worried about what the statistics can say". Football
    	is not as predictable as tought and any team can beat to
    	any team. For the Mexicans, statistics are growing up but
    	this time the things are getting different.
    
    	I will be looking at all next comments you may have
    
    	Anyway, enjoy this exciting event.
    
    	I 

    Just want to wish good luck to our team (MEXICO),
    My prediction is that we'll see a couple of very
    good games in a few minutes.
    I'll save my comments for later....
    
    Regards
    Fausto 

    Can anyone post the scores from today's matches?  I can surmise that
    Mexico defeated Italy - which means Italy doesn't advance - but what
    about the Ireland - Norway match?
    
    Steve  (Foxboro Stadium, Sec 225, Seat 12)

    Mexico  - Italy  1-1
    Ireland - Norway 0-0

    So does anyone know how this leaves the final Group E table?  Mexico is
    first, Norway last on goal differential, how about 2nd and 3rd? 
    Ireland and Italy are level on differential as well as goals for and
    against.  Does Ireland get the nod for 2nd since they beat Italy in
    head-to-head?
    
    Steve

    
    Who do Ireland play next..?? reports are either Brazil or Belgium.
    

    Eire finished 2nd due to the fact that they beat Italy.This means
    that they will have to go back to Orlando according to the match
    commentators.
    Ferry Jambo.

    Ireland as runners up in group E have to play the winners of group
    F in Orlando on July 4th. That group hasn't finished yet. It could 
    any one of three teams, Belgium, Saudi Arabia, or Holland.  Since 
    Belgium already are 3 points ahead of the others and have a plus 2 
    goal differential, they are favorites, but...!!!

    Gerry

    Together with group this is the lousiest. Fast food for the future
    opponents.

    ... together with group c ...

    
    yeah, I believe the match is in Orlando agains't Holland or Beligium
    most probably Beligium I think either is ok and have the same problems
    with heat. Well done Ireland.
    
    Barry.

    
    No suprises here a VERY negative Norway drew with a not much better
    Ireland side, worst game I've seen so far.....Thank god this group is
    over and done with...As for Norway they are on there way home they were
    a disgrace they contributed nothing to a World Cup that is becoming one
    of the best I can remember...
    
    Neil..

    
    Does anyone know anything about Italy are they going through or what
    its not the same without them I presumed they would go through on third
    place but do you have to wait until all matches are over.
    
    Barry.

    Italy still have to sweat it a bit. 
    
    Depends what happens in Groups D and F.
    
    Romania v 3C/3D/3E     Los Angeles
    
    Argentina  v 3B/3E/3F  Boston
    
    Great display by Ireland last night, if Sheridans chip had
    of gone in it would have been one of the goals of the tournament.
    
    Looks like Belgium in Orlando,
    
    Jim.
    
      
    

By, that Ronnie Whelan's fast isn't he? He looked like the Six Million Dollar
Man when he steamed after that through ball in the second half. 8-)

Whay hasn't he started all Ireland's games?

Mike

    I think Ronnie should start against Belgium, he gives us 
    more attacking options from midfield (i.e. Keane, Towsend
    and Sheridan can attack more knowing that Ronnie is covering
    the space in midfield).
    
    Also, he can put his foot on the ball, which will be handy
    in Orlando,
    
    Jim.

    
    	Italy do qualify, but have to wait to see if they play Romania
    	or Argentina. The latter is most likely.
    
    	Andy.

    I have to agree that the Ireland-Norway game was the most boring game
    so far in this WC. Two defense-oriented teams without fantasy and
    variation. If you want to play good football, you have to
    enjoy playing football, but the two teams didn't seem to enjoy playing
    football at all. 
    
    /Mats

Well done, Mexico - they played well against Ireland and deserved to finish 
top. They've also got the only guy in the group who knows how to score - Luis 
Garcia. Norway were a great disappointment after playing so well in the 
qualifying (!). Don't know what to say about Italy - so much talent, so little 
achieved.

Ireland have done well to get so far, but they are going to need a bit more 
intelligence in the final third to go any further, I think.

grahame

RE .239

If the chip had gone in it would have been a goal????????
:>}

Steve.

    
    Boring ??...and Sweden - Brazil...Germany - Spain....Bolivia - Korea
    
    Still matter of opinion....I quite enjoyed it actually...
    
    Great to see Italy qualified though....
    
    Dezzz.

	I reckon Ireland played quite well yesterday. They attacked from the
	outset. They were up against a stern defense, so I suppose a 0-0
	draw is not going to entertain the neutral.

	I reckon that Ireland are suffering from their reputation for the
	long ball. However, they didn't play the long ball game in any of
	their group matches so far. They have played the ball to feet, except
	for crosses from the end line. 

	Having said that, I reckon that there's no harm playing the long
	ball game, if it gets results. I must be one of the few who feels
	sorry for Norway. I know they blew it by trying to settle for a
	draw against Italy, but I for one wouldn;t blame them. Success for
	Norway would have been to qualify from the group, just like it was
	for Ireland in the last WC.

	I'm all for entertaining football, but don't tell me that one sided
	games with plenty of goals for one team are more exciting than
	close 1-0 games.

	So, poor Norway go out with 4 points, and Russia may well go through
	with 3. I will be glad to see Russia go through, given their 6 goals
	yesterday, but, I think people are just a little hard on Norway.

	Michael.

 Well at least we know its hot in Orlando, and the lads have about 5 days to
recover.... heh Rainer I suppose your a great soccer player as well???? Mr
know-all from the ice-hockey world.......

                                                                  -dave-

    Why did Ireland keep on putting crosses in for TGA, when it was obvious
    they weren't going to win a header in the Norwegian penalty area if
    they played till next Christmas??
    Sheridan had the right idea, and it nearly paid off - I wish it had,
    it would have been a cracker.
    Norway were terrible in the first have, very negative. Ireland needed 
    more ideas in front of goal. In the 2nd, I thought it was pretty even,
    and Norway looked more like scoring. 
    
    I spent ages last night trying to figure out how Ireland had qualified
    above Italy - nobody mentioned the reason on German TV, or Eurosport,
    as if they thought it was patently obvious!
    
    Al.

    Mr. know-nothing, people are just not created equally ... 8-)

and thank god for that..........

    did ireland qualify because they beat italy ?

>    did ireland qualify because they beat italy ?
	Yes, everything else being equal (goal difference, goals scored), the
	next criteria is result of the game between the two, and since Ireland
	won that one, they get ranked 2nd and Italy third...
	
	On the other hand, all those rules seem very confused in most peoples
	minds. I thought I understood that the yellow cards/red cards counters
	were supposed to be reinitialized for whoever enters the next round
	(8th final) but some comments from the french commentators seemed to
	imply the contrary, I'm lost... and eventually I don't care anyway :-)
	
								.Andre.

    RE.-1
    About the yellow cards: Every player will lose a yellow card when going
    to the second round, except when you've got two, then you *do* get a
    suspension.
    
    Marcel

Reuter Report

POLICE FIRE RUBBER BULLETS, TEARGAS, AT MEXICAN FANS

LOS ANGELES, June 28 (Reuter) - Police fired rubber bullets and teargas at
rock and bottle throwing Mexican soccer fans as celebrations of their team's
progress to the second round of the World Cup turned violent, a police
spokesman said Tuesday.

Huntington Park police Lieutenant Michael Gwaltney said some officers were
injured, as well as a three-year-old girl hit in the head by a bottle, and
about 12 people were arrested.

Half of the small city's 12 police cars were extensively damaged from the
hail of rocks and bottles, Gwaltney said, and several store windows were
broken and there was minor looting.

It was the second time that police in the Huntington Park suburb of Los
Angeles had to deal with fans throwing bottles and rocks in celebration of
Mexico's progress through the world's largest sporting event.

Gwaltney said the crowd of rowdy fans, estimated at 3,000 to 4,000 large, got
out of hand at just before noon when Mexico drew 1-1 with Italy.

About two hours later the situation was out of control and police used
"pepper spray, rubber bullets and sting balls" to combat the unruly
celebrators, Gwaltney said.

The so-called sting balls were thrown toward the mob by officers and exploded
in the air, releasing small rubber projectiles about the size of the top of a
man's little finger.

"They are non-lethal projectiles that get your attention. They sting when
they hit," said Gwaltney.

He described Huntington Park as 96 percent Hispanic and said some local
Spanish language radio stations, "encouraged people to go out and celebrate
and block the streets. They created this but we still look like the bad guys
for spoiling the fun.

"We would like them to get the idea that we don't want to have to do this. We
would like them to go home. We would like to be able to go home," he said.

On Friday night, police were pelted with rocks and bottles by more than 3,000
Mexican fans after Mexico had defeated Ireland 2-1.

    Re .239
    
    >Italy still have to sweat it a bit.  
    >Depends what happens in Groups D and F.
    >Romania v 3C/3D/3E     Los Angeles
    >Argentina  v 3B/3E/3F  Boston
    
    	Same question I asked before about group A.  What determines which 
    team would Italy play since we know Argentina or Romania could play
    against 3rd place from group E  ????
    
    Thanks.
    
    A_Colombian_who_was_let_down_by_a_team_that_all_of_us_know_plays_10_times_
    better_than_they_did_in_their_first_two_games.  :(   :(
    
    /PZ
    

    
    >	Same question I asked before about group A.  What determines which 
    >team would Italy play since we know Argentina or Romania could play
    >against 3rd place from group E  ????
    
    I think they just go through the list in sequence and work 
    them out from there. So, in Italy's case, they'll calculate
    
           Romania v 3C/3D/3E     Los Angeles
    
    If Italy are the best 3rd team of those, then they'll play
    in LA. If not, they'll compete for the place in Boston.
    
            Argentina  v 3B/3E/3F  Boston
        
    
    Jim.

    It is dependant on which mix of countries qualify for the 2nd round as
    the 4 best placed teams. 
    
    If the four teams that qualify are from groups  
    
    ABDE     	then A3 v B1, B3 V C1, E3 V D1, D3 V A1 
    ABEF 	then E3 V A1, A3 V B1, B3 V C1, F3 V D1
    ADEF 	then D3 V A1, A3 V B1, F3 V C1, E3 V D1
    
    to get the full picture look at the elimination table on the world cup
    prediction notes file. Above are the only three possible combinations 
    of best third placed teams. 
    
    See, as clear as mud.
    
    Antony
    

    
    	Sorry, Antony, but I don't understand. Could you explain that
    	again for me please? 8-)

    Well a pretty boring game for a neutral to watch, although I imagine
    the Irish/Norwegian fans were engrossed due to the high stakes 
    involved. 
    
    The Irish definately had the better of the game with some good passing
    movements, but seemed to lack the killer punch in the last third of the
    field. Saying that, Sheridan was unlucky with his chipped attempt, and 
    if Wheelin' had more pace than an Elephant Seal he might have been in 
    with a chance.
    
    Anyway now some good comments from last nights Intelligent BBC
    commentry team John Motson and Liam " Crap Manager " Bradey.
    
    
    John Motson : near half time.
    
    " Well Bonner's had nothing to do apart from picking up the 
      Pass Backs !!!!! "  <--- What a donkey Motson is! 

    John Motson : In the first half
    
    " Once the players are on the pitch, theres not much the manager can
    tell them. "
    
    John Motson : Second half
    
    " Norway are attacking more now, You think Big Jack (management) 
      would give the players ( now on the pitch ) more instructions. "
    
    How long does Motsons memory (if he has one) last.
    
    
    
    Liam Brady : Inthe second half, after Gary Kelly had brought a
    Norwegian down.
    
    " It was a cynical foul, but a GOOD foul!!!!! Norway were on the break
      then, he did well to bring him DOWN !!!!!!!!! "
    
    Can you believe it ???????????? Anyway it was funny at the time :-)
    
    .Sandy
     

    It looks like Ireland -v- Holland in Orlando....
    
    Ray....(just back from 5 days in Dublin, does anyone have a spare
    stomach pump?...)

    
    Well done Mexico, good riddance Norway.
    
    Ireland qualify and will beat Holland imo, although they should try and
    make the keeper make atleast one save in the game, which is more than
    they did against Norway, but atleast they tried to win the game.
    
    ..still trying to figure out how Paul McGrath gets MOM when he only had
    to defend for 25 minutes and it was clear that Jason McAteer was the
    best player on the pitch. 
    
    Italy, not to sure about them, can't see them really troubling any of
    the better sides in the competition.
    
    Dave...

    
    
    Ireland 2 Holland 0
    I think we can do it and we will then face brazil in tge 1/4 final
    presumming off course Brazil beat USA. I am living in Hollland so I
    will be out in Amsterdam wearing my Ireland top in the local Irish
    pub for the match should be intresting, but we done it once and I
    think we are looking better now and holland no better.
    
    Barry.

   Holland 2 Rep of Ireland 0
   Berkhamp
   Vonk

   Aldo is a great player but even he can't score from the sideline. He should
have been in the team instead of Coyne was was crap. 


C U N N O

    Spot on Martin,
    
    Also, what the hell were Kelly, Babb and McAteer doing on the pitch.
    Ronnie could easily have replaced all three leaving Jack with the
    option of playing Aldo, Tommy Coyne and Tony Cascarino up front.
    
    Jerry.
    
    ;;;;-----))))))}     
    
    (Just in case anyone other than Martin thought I was being serious !)

For once I agree with the great one.

TGA should have been brought on during the Holland game instead of Tony (and I
thought Whelan was slow!!) Cascarino, god what a donkey he looked. And I think
Houghton should have gone off. He got into the scoring positions well enough,
but wasn't going to score until he'd grown at least another 4 inches.

Al

    
    Re:last.
    	   
    In height....
    
    or length ?

   At the beginning of the week, I was over the moon about our qualification
for the second phase but after the Holland game, I was as sick as a parrot. The
boys never got into their stride and Holland set their stall out right from the
start by throwing everything at us. We never got to the pitch of the ball and
once we lost thew two goals we were chasing the game. We had a mountain to
climb and we had to dig deep but at the end of the day, it wasn't enough.


C U N N O 

    
       I thought we showed alot of spirit though in the second half, a pity
    we did not play that way in the first. Why Mc Ateer was not on from the
    start and Aldrdige brought on, I think Aldridge would'nt have missed
    Houghtons chances although he gets himself in the positions. I can't
    help feeling Cascarino was brought on to give him a kick about in the
    world cup. The Dutch papers wrote about how rare it was for one manager
    to hug the other after a match as this, they say thats how it should
    be.
    
    Barry.

    re.268
    
    Surely it was a game of two halfs
    
    Greavesie