Conference trucks::football;1

    Another goal for Bayern in the 90th minute !!! How unusual 8-)

    >Same c*** different season ! 
    
    
    	No way Pagey, this is an excellent start. German cup results from
    Saturday, well the main one anyway  :-)
    
    
    
    Bayern 2 FC Homburg 4 (after extra time).
    
    Homburg are 2nd division south.
    
    
    As for Rostock? Makes a bit of a nonsense only letting 2 of the East
    German league into the Bundesliga 1. Still I suppose there's plenty of
    time yet...... One of the Bayern management said after Rostocks win,
    that they won't drop any more points at home this season, (or something
    along those lines), can't wait to hear what they have to say after the
    NEXT home game. This will be Heynkiss last year at B.M. I reckon.
    
    
    		Steve

    
    Apparently Steve, Heynkes is out if they don't beat Schalke tomorrow
    and get at least a draw against Dresden..Hoeness's face was a sight
    after the game.....I think the shiney happy people in Munich these days
    are wearing blue and white !!!!!
    
    Dezzz.

    Lets not get hysterical gents. Bayern have shown a radical improvement
    in their cup form this season. Just remember who put them out last
    year !!

Re. last two,   

I can quite believe Heynkes will go after the mid-week game...I dont think I 
have ever seen a professional team play so badly as Bayern on Saturday...They
gave away possesion continuosly, were incapable of taking chances (with the
exception of Menzinho (sp?)), but worst of all, just like end of last season,
they showed NO determination to win....

Tony,  who_hopes_cork_stuff_them_in_europe! 

    What makes Saturday so exceptional then Tony ? Everything they have
    won over the past 4 seasons has been a complete fluke !!

    Sky TV is now broadcasting a German game live on Friday night, the
    first one was Rostock - Karlsruher, both from the old east I think.
    There were plenty of long range shots, the winner from Karlsuher was
    excellent, 10 yards outside the box !
    
    jb.

    Can someone explain the reasoning behind the way the results are
    presented on television. It's not alphabetic or by league position.
    I can only assume it may be Toto related. Is this correct ??
    
    P.S. Karlsruhe are not from the former DDR, the city lies a bit further
    West than Stuttgart...

    I think they show points for and points against: For example
    
    
                    P    W   D   L   Pts
    
    Bayern Munchen  10   0   0   10  0:20

    Yes, I understand that, what confuses me is the order in which they
    show the results on a given day....

    
    What if there simply were no order ??
    
    

    >What if there simply were no order ??
    
    In Germany ? You must be joking......
    
    	- Robin

    In what way does the presentation of results differ from that in
    England then ?
    
    Dave (confused ex-Bayern fan)

    In Britain the results are alphabetically by home team, eg. Arsenal
    before Crystal Palace etc...
    
    There can't be 'no' order as it seems consistent between different TV
    stations, newspapers etc....

    Well maybe the away team is placed first, as is the case in American
    football.

    Sorry...tried that too :^)...
    

    
    
    
    	I believe it is the LOTTO format.

    It's getting pretty tight at the top of the Bundersliga is'nt it? 
    There seems to be only one point seperating about 4 or 5 teams and
    yet another draw for Koln. That's at least seven draws now, surely?
    
    Barry.  

Regarding the team order on scores, in Germany the league games are played
Friday night, Saturday afternoon, Saturday night and Sunday (not the same teams
;-> so the scores in the paper and on telly come out in alphabetical and date
order (I think - come on Malcolm, you've been here years!).

Also the German cup scores are sorted on Bundesliga versus Bundesliga,
Bundesliga 2 versus Bundesliga 2, 1 versus 2, 1 versus Amateur (ie. second
team), Amateur versus Amateur etc. so its a bloody nightmare finding out
anything. Ganz normal, nicht wahr?

Bob

    Hmmm...could be...I'll look out for that this weekend.
    
    Yes...I've been here years, but I'm just getting my brain into
    Oktoberfest mode...starts Saturday...Whoopee....
    
    Hello Bob :^)..

  Could not resist the urge to see one more game at the Olympic 
  stadium...and for the second time this season, a good game.

  6 goals between them, 1-0, 1-1, 1-2, 2-2, 3-2, 3-3 , with both
  teams having many chances to score more...the last 10 minutes 
  Bayern hit the underside of the bar and Frankfurt had the just
  the keeper to beat on two occasions.

  Get the feeling that Frankfurt will now go on and win the 
  championship this season.

  Bayern, out of the cup, no championship, and Cork will win 2-1

    ...And 1FC Koln surprise us all yet again. :^)
    
    Barry.

    can you list players ?

    
      Why do the Germans Boo Stefen Effenberg every time he gets the ball ?
    
    Overall it wasnt a bad game,and being completly biased....Chris Waddle
    was the best player on the pitch for the World 11.
    
    
    Dave...

    
I've just read those interesting statistics on most goals etc.

Germany: (played 14)

Most Goals:	    Avr
Frankfurt   34	    2.42    1.Div
Freiburg    29	    2.07    2.Div S
Dortmund    28	    2.00    1.Div
Oldenburg   27	    1.93    2.Div N
Stuttgart   26	    1.87    1.Div

Most Intersting
	     F	 A   Avr
Dortmund    28	27  3.93    1.Div
Erfurt	    12	39  3.64    2.Div S
Frankfurt   34	16  3.57    1.Div
Oldenburg   27	22  3.50    2.Div N
Brandenburg 21	25  3.28    2.Div N

Heiko_

    >Karl-Heinz Rumenigge 
    
    	This could mean relegation!
    
    	After 20 mins against Copenhagen score was 0-0, any updates?

    Wow!!! What a shocker. What's with Bayern these days? I just got back
    to the office and while searching topic 7 for results I tought the
    6:2 score in Europe was somebody' idea of a joke. Forget coaching help
    from Beckenbauer and Rumminege (sp? on both). Give them jerseys and
    boots and insert them into the line-up, immediately. What a shame it
    would be if they were to be relegated. The Bundesliga wouldn't be the
    same without them.
    
    JC

    JC .. I said this -20 notes back... The Bayern players have zero
    commitment. If they do go out, lets hope TSV1860 make it!!!  

    I saw the Duisburg-Eintracht game live on Sky on Fri night - a great
    game !
    
    jb.

    
    
    More bad luck for Bayern??? I read in todays paper that Soren Lerby
    is in trouble with Amsterdam's tax authorities for tax evasion during 
    his time with Ajax. They are suggesting that he be locked up for 10
    months.

    Last nights live game was especially picked for all in insomniacs in
    Germany to enable them to get a good nights sleep. Hamburg 0 Bremen 1.
    Yawn!
    
    Kaiserslautern played superbly again, and look a good bet to retain the
    championship. Frankfurt scrambled a late equaliser against KSC, and
    Bayern? They were 2 up at half-time and cruising, but gave up in the
    2nd half and Leverkusen got a point. 
    
    		Steve

A big shock for German Football !!!

Yesterday morning 24-year old striker of 1.FC Cologne, Maurice Banach, 
was killed in a car accident on the Cologne - Wuppertal Autobahn on his
way to training.

He leaves behind his wife and 2 sons, aged 3 years and 5 months.

According to the police a front tyre burst and the car crashed into the
pier of a bridge, where it burnt out completely. Banach was immediately
dead after the impact.

Maurice Banach was a very talented striker, scoring 10 goals this season.
In his current form he would have been on his way to get nominated for
the national team.

A minute of silence is said to be held at the EC qualification match between
Belgium and Germany on Wednesday.

My condolences to his wife and children.

Eduard :-( :-( :-(

    Does anybody know anything about a bid from Bayern Munchen
    on Dutch international Jan Wouters???
    
    Rob

Rob,
	I read in todays paper that he has gone to Bayern Munchen rather than
Arsenal for 1 million. He's 31 years old, so perhaps its wasn't a bad thing
that he didnt come to us.



	Mick

    Exactly, a 31 year old Donkey. Sounds like a typical Bayern signing.

               <<< Note 19.65 by CURRNT::PAGED "Terry Waited" >>>

>>    Exactly, a 31 year old Donkey. Sounds like a typical Bayern signing.

Loads a bullshit you are talking man! Bayern made a good deal by buying him,
being 31 doesn't mean you are over the hill, he still is a Dutch international
and one of the leader in the national team!

T_

    
    	So there. Nur.
    
    	That told him, Ton 8-)

    Is it just me or are we having an extraordinary day in Football notes?
    Cunno on the offensive (literally), battle of the Scousers on the
    Liverpool note, the Arsenal note is turning into an beer convention,
    and now this. Loving every minute. 
    
    Barry.

    Reply: 19.65 "Old Donky"
    
    On what facts is critisism on Jan Wouters based. Have you seen him
    play recently??? By my knowledge Jan is still one of the best Dutch
    football players. In fact I think he even improved the last few years,
    he can really lead a team and younger players can learn a lot from him.

    I am not disputing the fact that Wouters is a bad player. He was one
    of the best. But at 31 he must be over the hill and ready for
    retirement. Ergo, a waste of money if Bayern are trying to strengthen
    a team that they have already spent millions of marks creating... Hee haw !!

    I haven't seen Bayern Munich in a complete game this season, maybe Sky
    will show a Friday Night Bundesliga game featuring them. Bayern Munich
    are not my favourite German club, as they cheated Leeds United out of
    the European Cup in 1975. Seeing them in the predicament they are in at
    the moment gives a better feeling than them at the top.
    
    They're a bit like Liverpool - in decline.
    
    jb.

    Having spent the past 4 seasons watching Bayern at close quarters
    (I lived there) I can quite catagorically state:
    
    That they are shite. 

               <<< Note 19.70 by CURRNT::PAGED "Terry Waited" >>>
                            -< Passing the Dutchy >-

>>    I am not disputing the fact that Wouters is a bad player. He was one
>>    of the best. But at 31 he must be over the hill and ready for
>>    retirement. Ergo, a waste of money if Bayern are trying to strengthen
>>    a team that they have already spent millions of marks creating... Hee haw !!

I still think you talk crap! The reason is simply I've seen Jan Wouters
playing for years from his time at FC Utrecht till his Ajax and international
time. He is not over the hill and still can drag a team into winning a match.
Bayern did well by buying him, he will lead the young players to the right
way and that up!!!!

T_

    This man Wouters will have to have the power of the Wizard of OZ
    to make any changes at Bayern this year. My bet is that he will
    quickly lose his mythical ability to lead when he's forced to
    play the way Bayern do.

    Does anybody know the results of the German league??? Did 
    Jan Wouters already play for Bayern Munchen???

  <<< Note 19.75 by BONNET::ZIJL "I think I can, I think I can,.....,I did" >>>

>>    Does anybody know the results of the German league??? Did 
>>    Jan Wouters already play for Bayern Munchen???

He played and Munich won lucky, 1-0. 

T_

    There is no more live Bundesliga football on Sky Sports on a Friday
    night, the niggardly and spiteful Irish FA have complained it clashes
    with an Irish League match between Ballybunion Athletic and Bog of
    Allen Rovers, watched by 400 fans, 2 sheep and Paddy McGinty's goat.
    
    (I think it's sour grapes to get back at England)
    
    Ne-ne-der-ner-ner.
    
    jb.

    Any results from the German League this week?
    
    Rob

    I usually come in at 9:00 !
    
    

    Sorry just curious

    When does the Bundersliga "hibernate" for the winter then?
    
    Barry.

    
    One more round is to be played next weekend, then they'll start again
    in February (I think).
    
    Heiko
    

    How's Jan Wouters doing at Bayern???
    
    Rob

                       <<< Note 19.89 by ULYSSE::LORD >>>
                              -< Jan Wouters??? >-

>>    How's Jan Wouters doing at Bayern???
    
>>    Rob

Rob,

I think he is doing ok, as he scored this weekend!!!

T_

    Indeed he did and I was there to witness it. The best goal of a game
    that was, at best, lousy. A typical Bayern performance. They are the
    Luton Town of the Bundesliga !

    Nice to know I'm not the only one at DIGITAL's whose heart belongs to
    FC St.Pauli (though I live at Cologne for some years).
    
    Does anybody know yet the timetable of the promo round for the
    2.Bundesliga Nord (especially the dates of the matches against
    Uerdingen and Hannover - Meppen doesn't bother me too much) ?
    
    It would be tragic if the most boring team of the whole league
    would succeed over my favourite - at Uerdingen you can't even take
    a can of beer into the stadium without being picked by the police 
    (I know what I'm talking about).
    
    Tor - Tor - MILLERNTOR!!
    
    Rainer

    Hi Gerd,
    
    great to know that so many St.Pauli-supporters are tuned to this
    conference. As I mentioned before (->10.113) we'll grow to football
    team size on our own soon (just wait until autumn  when we're back in
    1st division)!
    
    See you in the "Bunker Curve" of Millerntor Stadium,
    Rainer

    Are the German football players in their wintersleep
    
    Rob

    yes, they stat up again on 8 Feb (no doubt whwn the snow is deep and
    crisp and even !). Bayern Munich are playing Leeds United on Wednersday
    in a friendly game.
    
    jb.

    Hope it's friendlier than the last one, crowd wise ;^). Were'nt Leeds on 
    the wrong end of some dubious refereeing decisions that fateful Paris 
    night?
    
    Barry.

    Leeds had a perfectly good goal disallowed, and Bayern got away with
    lots of fouls and cheating. The referee never took charge of an
    important match again.'We wuz robbed'.
    
    There were (inexcusable) riots - but there was a near riot at every game
    in the Football League at the time.
    
    jb.

    How did the German league come out of it's wintersleep, and if they
    did, how did Jan Wouters (Bayern) play???
    
    Thanks,
    
    Rob
    

    I saw Bochum - Frankfurt on Friday night (Sky) - not too bad, but not a
    lot of goal action.
    
    Who plays on a Friday night, could anyone post a Friday Night fixture
    list in here for the rest of the season ?
    
    jb.

                     <<< Note 19.111 by RTOIC::GGAUGLER >>>
                             -< Auf Wiedersehen! >-


Gunter,

all the best for you in the future and maybe we'll meet when
Germany plays Holland (Dutch win ofcourse :-) :-))


T_

    Cheerio Gunter. Looks like I'll have to find another source of 
    fixtures for the Westfalen (sp?) region this summer. :^)
    
    Good luck,
    
    Barry.  

    
    good luck, Gunther!
    Ian.
    

    Good luck outside Digital, Gunther.
    
    jb.

    Good Luck Gunter (cant make the two little dots on the U!). I'm off
    too end of next week (but it happens to me every few months so its
    no big deal). Worse part is the 'notes withdrawal', apparently you
    can now get a patch from your doctor to stick on your arm, it slowly
    releases measured amounts of "Essence of Cunno" which, when absorbed
    through the skin induce a state of euphoria, almost Aldo-like.
    
    Tono

    Good luck Gunter, are you a victim of the announcements over the last
    few days or is it voluntary ?
    
    	- Robin

We'll miss Ya.


	Mick

    
    Cheers Gunther....are you staying in Munich or will you have to
    find an 1860 substititute???
    
    Regards,
    
    Dezzz.

    Gunter,  We will miss the German results....best of luck outside the
    realms of Digital..heres to 1860...and have a Weiss bier on me!...Tony

Hi Gunther,

I wish you all the best in the future and thanks for all the input,but if you 
permits,I would like to ask you some more questions.
What happened with Teddy De Beer,the goalkeeper of Dortmund and why German 
supporters are always start whistling whenever Steffenberg is touchong the ball?

Regards

Patrick

re last

I've never heard of him, but I assume he must be pretty good - probably better 
than the guys playing his position on the US team. This would be especially true, 
since to crack the Kaiserslautern lineup he would have to beat out some good 
players. I take it he's the son of a US serviceman stationed in Germany, and 
grew up and learned to play there. I may be wrong, but I was under the 
impression that he would already be a US citizen. If his mother is German, I 
guess he could hold dual citizenship. Does this mean he is considered a German 
for football purposes, like UK citizens who play for Scotland?

Whatever the case, the US will benefit from the more players it has playing in
European leagues. Even though many countries are moving more towards a home-based
side, the US doesn't have a good pro league at home. Players like Sheffield
Wednesday's John Harkes, Hugo Perez and Bruce Murray (Spanish 2nd Division 
clubs) Paul Caliguri (ex-Hasna Rostock, now Hamburger SV?) are benefitting 
tremendously from their experiences. Even if the whole US team plays in Europe
and they set up a makeshift camp there to prepare for games, it's better than
havig players play at home in a semi-pro league.

Tom

    Soren Lerby has been sacked by Bayern Muenchen.

    Did anyone see Illgners (Germanys keeper) complete cock-up on Saturday?
    It was a bit of an Alex Stepney. He punched a fairly soft cross into his 
    own net, with hardly an attacker in sight!!
    
    It's a good job for the rest of Europe that Germany don't really have
    an international class keeper. 
    
    
    			Steve

So neither Cup Finalist 'won' their semi-final? Yet another competition 
decided on penalties.

grahame

    
    What an absolutely superb game between 2 of the front-runners on
    Saturday. With Bayern out of the picture for most of the season it
    seemed that the other teams felt a weight off their shoulders. Well
    that's the way it was in England this season....there are still 4
    games to go.....who'll buckle first ?? I don't care who wins it as
    at the end one can say that ANY of the 3 teams involved played
    attacking, open and entertaining football. For Dortmund's fans I'd
    like to see them win it as for the past 5 years since I've been here
    they've certainly been the most loyal (ironically an exception this
    year with Schalke 04 having the highest average).
    
    Dezzz.

    
    Werder Bremen	1 - 1	Hamburger SV
    Kohn			Eck
    

    
    Klinsmann -- Madrid :
    
    Not yet confirmed - I just read in in the paper this morning ...
    	Tranfer fee	DM 10,000,000
    	K'mann's salary DM  1,500,000 p.a.
    
    Heiko

  He'll be earning approx 130,000 dm more than what he earned in Milan. Not bad
money for a striker who only scores an average of 4 or 5 goals pro season. I
also believe he won't be a starter in Euro 92. Riedle, Voller, and Thom are all
better players..

                                                        -dave-

    
    
    Congratulations to Hannover 96 and their coach Michael Lorkowski.
    
    They deserved to win. 
    
    Gerd
    

    Anyone got the results of the new Bundersliga campaign? I'd
    imagine it would have started by now and that the lower 
    divisions have been playing for a few weeks already.
    
    barry.
                                                       

    No, they haven't started yet.
    First day is Aug, 28th I think.
    
    Heiko
    

   From what I've read the German league also starts on saturday 15th, but there
are also three or four games scheduled for friday night.....

   I  also notice that Bayern Munich pre-season form is similar to that of last
years league form..ie crap... They played a couple of games against Bavarian
league teams, Ulm, and Augsburg and managed only a draw in both games, and were
very lucky not to lose by at least two goals. Klaus Augenthaler had his farewell
game on sat night in Munich against Juventus, at one stage Juventus were leading
by 4-1, and during the 10mins I watched, Juve were in complete control... 

   I hope Bayern keep up this form, because I don't like them.... I hope 
Frankfurt or Dortmund produce the goods this year......

                                                               -dave-                                                               

    
    Yup, you're right. They start this Friday.
    
    (I somehow mixed it up with the league I play in)
    
    Heiko

     Re last...

Yea the deal looks on. The Bayern president is down in Milan today with 
Karl-Heinz Ruemenigge (Vice-president) to talk terms with the Inter folks.. It
looks like he will cost between 4 and 6 million dm. To me that's a lot of
money for a player heading for 32, and who's just recovering from an injury that
would finish a lot of players careers. I'll fill ye in on the details whenever
they are settled. By the way the great Franz Beckenbaur has a lot to do with
this deal, he wants Matthaeus back in Munich at practically any cost.

                                                       -dave-

 
   Lothar Mattaeus signed for Byern Munich last night.. the transfer fee is
approx 6 million dm, this is just one million less than what Bayern got for him
back in 88 when he went to Inter.. He's still injured, but should be back to
full fitnes by October..

                                                             -dave-

    Another blinding start to the season by Koln I see.  8^)
    
    barry.

    According to USA Today, Eric Wynalda (who has made several appearances
    with the US national team), scored his first 2 goals in the Bundesliga
    on Saturday.  Can anyone provide more information?  Which team is he
    playing for?
    
    Steve

    I don't remember if it was him, but there was another USA international
    who was with Hasna Rostock the year they won the East German
    championship. Thomas Dooley is a defender for the USA team, but he's
    really German. I think he plays for Kaiserslautern. Paul Caliguiri, a
    midfielder was with SV Hamburger last year, but I think he's moved on.
    
    Tom

    
    Paul Caliguri played for Hamburg about 4 years ago.
    He then moved to SV Meppen, who are playing 2.Bundesliga.
    
    I've never heard of Peter Woodring playing for Hamburg's first team.
    He must be in their amateur squad.
    
    Heiko
    

    As far as I can remember, the two goals of Eric Wynalda were brilliant,
    especially the first one; the second one was scored with a bit of luck.
    
    Eduard

    re a few back
    
    Thomas Dooley is a dual citizen of Germany and the USA, so he is not
    considered a "foreigner" in the Bundesliga. His father is an American
    serviceman and his mother is German. He grew up in Germany and decided
    to play for the USA becsue he probably would not be able to crack the
    line up of the German national team.
    
    Tom

Hi,

Call me stupid, but I do not understand your league table as presented in this
note.
What does 
6. Karlsruher SC                  11: 9    5:5
mean?

Many thanks,

Mike

  Re last... Heiko I'll save you typing....

Mike   11:9  and 5:5  are in order, goals for, goals against. and points
standing.....

    so Karlsruhe are sixth in the table, scored 11 goals, conceded 9 goals, and
have 5 points out of a possible 10....

                                                      alles klar....

                                                             -dave-

Thanks very much.
Mike

    I'd be ever so grateful if someone in here could post the
    full address of Borussia Dortmund. 
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    barry.

    Can anyone tell me if Leeds v Stuggart} are live on RTL on Wednesday ?
                          Celticv Colonge }
    
    thanks
    Denis

    Saw a brief report in the International Herald Tribune that Cobi Jones,
    a member of the US Olympic team, had been signed by FC Cologne.  Anyone
    have any further info?  
    
    Steve

    Well, he scored a nice goal against the Ivory Coast in the "Inter-
    Continental Championships" at King Fahd Stadium in Saudi Arabia. The
    game was on Telemundo yesterday. The US won, 5-2. I think Cobi Jones 
    played for UCLA before joining the US Olympic team this summer.
    
    It's kind of hard to take this tournament seriously if it didn't
    include the European Champion. Apparenly Denmark had enough
    internationals already scheduled in their WC qualifying group.
    Argentina won it (big surprise there!), Saudi Arabia was 2nd, USA 3rd
    and Ivory Coast 4th.
    
    Tom   

When Mattheus signed for Bayern he was injured. Has he recovered yet?

If so, how is he doing?

Is he back in the national side again?

If I remember correctly, Bayern weren't particularly devastating last season, so
has the return of Mattheus made the difference?

Other questions:

Who is leading the second division this year?
How are Osnabruck doing?

Is Andy Brehme playing in Germany again now?

Just curious...

Thanks for any info.

Mike

   Mike Mattheus has played about 8-10 games in a row now for Bayern since
recovering from his injury. He has scored two goals for them one ten days ago
and one on saturday... They are two of the best goals I have seen been scored
this season in any league, and Iam by no way a fan of Mattheus or Bayern... He 
is also back in the National team, and Iam sure he will become the most capped
player for Germany, at the moment he has approx 95 caps.... Kaiser Franz
Beckenbauer holds the record at 103 (Heiko correct me if Iam wrong)

   Bayern have bought some other class players who have fit perfectly into the
team, so its only got a little to do with Mattheus... The young players look to
him , Jorginho, and Woulters for advice...

   Freiburg are leading the second division table by five points, Iam not sure
where Osnabruck are, but I think their mid table.....

   Andy Brehme plays with Real Zaragosa in Spain... They got beat 10 days ago
6-1 at home to the mighty Barcelona.....

                                         hope this helps.....

                                                    -dave-

Dave,

Thanks very much.

Mike

    
    I saw the high lights of the Bundersliga last night on the tv
    and Matthaus was quite superb.
    
    JN.

   Heiko both teams played excellent football ie Chemnitz and Hertha amateurs
could and should have won by a bigger margin.... Bremen had two players sent off
in their game, but again Chemnitz were the better team. I hope Hertha go all the
way, they have at least a good chance of geting to the final.....

                                                                -dave-

p.s Big game on tonight on RTL....

Hi Heiko,

Any chance of finding out what is going on in the 2.bundesliga?

I'm mainly interested in Osnabruck, and how they are doing.

Thanks very much,

Mike

Heiko,

Thanks very much. Not too good for Osnabruck, eh?

What are their chances of staying up?

Mike

Heiko,

Thanks very much. A good result for Osnabruck.

Maybe we can avoid the drop yet. 8-)

Mike

Heiko,

Thanks for getting the 2. info for us - I'm going to have tio have a bet with 
Mike that Darmstadt will finish above Osnabruck (now there's a competition to 
set everyone talking)

g

Graham,

Well, after both Osnabruck and Darmstadt garnered a mighty zero points from
the weekend, it looks like both teams are in a bit of trouble. Osnabruck will
finish above you though. 8-)

The question is: will it matter because both are likely to plummet into
footballing obscurity next season anyway. 8-(

Doncaster Rovers, Osnabruck; I can't half pick 'em!

Mike

Re .-2

	do Frankfurt not WANT to win the title?!!

g

    German Cup 1st semifinal
    
    Eintracht Frankfurt	- Bayer 04 Leverkusen
    		0	-	3
    
    				Thom 6'
    				Kirsten ~75'
    				Thom ~80'
    
    Right after the match Dragoslav Stepanovic, coach of Eintracht
    Frankfurt, announced he would step down, although Frankfurt's
    management had previously stated they didn't see any reason to consider
    changing or suspending to coach.
    
    Stepanovic is probably the most interesting and courageous coach
    Germany has seen in the last decade. He came from lowly Eintracht Trier
    (3rd Div) and managed to field new, unknown, but very skillful players
    about every month. Okocha, Schmitt, Ancic. As the (good) TV
    Commentatory (sp) put it, "The magician has finally run out of tricks".
    
    This evening it is 
    	Chemnitzer FC  - Hertha BSC Amateurs
       (2.Liga)		 (Oberliga)
    
    If the Amateurs manage to win, it would be the first time ever, that a 
    non professional team reaches the cup final, which is btw always held
    in Berlin.
    
    So that would perfectly match the rule that amateur teams, when
    playing against professionals, will automatically have the advantage 
    of being the home team.
    
    Heiko
    

    
    German Cup Semifinal
    
    Hertha BSC Amateurs		- Chemnizter FC
    (Oberliga Ost-Mitte)	  (2.Bundesliga)
    
    
    
    			    4' Ramelow
    
    			1	-	0
    
    			   22' Meyer
    
    			2	-	0
    
    			   36' Heidrich
    
    			2	-	1
    
    			   Halftime
    
    			   Final Whistle
    56,000 fans celebrate the first amateur team to reach the DFB Cup
    final. Probably one of the greatest successes for a team from Berlin as
    well. 
    
    Looking forward to an interesting Cup-Final
    
    		Hertha BSC (A)	-   Bayer 04 Leverkusen
    
    Heiko
    

are the Hertha team real amateurs, or are they semi-professional non-league ? 
I saw most of the game on tv, and they didn't appear to be outclassed in any way
- in fact Chemnitzer looked more disorganised, especially the marking of their
defenders for the two goals.

How far below professional league level is the league that Hertha play in, and
how are they doing ? Is there any promotion/relegation to and from non-league
football (the way there is in England for teams winning the Conference) ?

     Ray

ps when's the final ?

    
    A quick overview:
    
    	1.Bundesliga	18 teams	well paid, bonuses
                
    		(2 or 3 up and down)
    
    	2.Bundesliga    24 teams	fully paid, bonuses
                        to be reduced to 20 teams
    
     		(7 going down)
    
       Amateuroberliga			players usually follow a profession
    					but are being paid for playing.
    					Depends on the generosity of the
    					sponsor, mainly.
    
    The are ~10 Oberligas. The top teams, 1st and 2nd for those leagues
    that cover a wide region, otherwise 1st only, form 3 promotion groups
    of 4 teams each. The play a round robin and the three winners of the 
    promotion groups will be promoted to 2.Bundesliga.
    
    	Verbandsliga			see Oberliga. 
    
    	one for each the 
    	federal states
    
    Promotion to Oberliga Nord: Top 1 & 2 of Verbandliga Bremen, Hamburg,
    Niedersachsen and Schleswig-Holstein play in 2 groups.
    
    
    Hertha BSC Pros are playing in 2.Bundesliga, currently 6th and on a 
    winning run (21:3 pts).
    
    Hertha BSC are midfield of Oberliga Ost-Mitte, I think. 
    
    HTH,
    	Heiko
    

   I hope they go all the way now...... I believe the average age of the team
is 20, and I know the keeper is only 16. Btw on sunday 220 people turned up to
see them play a league game....... Who said fairytales don't come true......

                                                           -dave-

    Hello,
    
         I will be in Munich on the weekend of the 24th April, do 
    Bayern have a game at home this weekend that I could go to ???????
    
    Also what is the likely cost of the ticket?
    
    Thanks for any info .... Sandy

    
    	Probably not, I think they are playing Bremen away live on the box 2
    days later.
    
    
    		Steve

    Werder Bremen Vs. Munchen, live on telly tonight.........

which channel ?

what time ?

         ray

    SAT-1 @ 19:55, so I reckon the game starts at 20:00/20:15.
    
    	- Robin

    
    	Nice report Heiko. I would second nearly all of what you said.
    Great game, played at tremendous pace, really end-to-end stuff (bit
    like an English game in this respect). 
    
    	Excellent skill from Scholl in the first half. Only Erich Riebec
    (sp?) knows why he hasn't been playing all year. Although I think that
    Bremen were better in the 1st half than many people give them credit
    for. They came close to scoring on several occasions, but Bayern were
    the more dangerous.
    
    	The penalties? Hmmm, sorry to say this Heiko but I think that these
    sort of incidents happen far to often in the Bundesliga, the first was
    50/50, the second was a blatant dive! And I was supporting Bremen!
    Having said that Herzog was excellent again.
    
    			Steve

    
    	Looks like Bochum are going to do it again!

    
    Heiko,
    
    you didn't mention Yeboah making 4(!) goals at the
    5 - 2 away-win of Frankfurt in Uerdingen. As this game is being
    cancelled an d now taken as a 2 - 0 for Uerdingen, how will
    Yeboahs goals be marked in th etop-scoring list ?
    
    	Gerd_

    re .-2 (Bundesliga 32nd day)
    
    Did I mention that Yeboah scored 4 of Franfurts 5 goals ?
    
    According to my paper, he will be credidet these goals in the scorers
    table, although these goals will not appear in the league table.
    (cf .-2, Scorers Table)
    
    Kirsten/Yeboah -> 18 each
    
    Heiko

    
    When was the last time Bayern Munich won the Bundesliga ,
    
    Also what's the roll of honour...who has won the most Bundesliga etc..
    
    jm

The Dutch press today announced that Ruud Gullit has signed a contract
for Bayern Munich and will join Jan Wouters.

I haven't seen anything yet about prices etc but there were huge pictures
on Gullit in Holland and Germany talking to der Kaiser.

T_

    Gullit signed a 2 year contract. I'm not 100% sure, but I think he
    cost Bayern 4-6 Mio. DM. Definitately not more than DM 8 Mio. because
    that's all Bayern had to spend (according to newspapers).
    
    I'm sure Gullit will attract a few more spectators next season, but
    I believe Bayern would have been better off buying a good striker instead.
    They were interested in Karl-Heinz Riedle from Lazio, but couldn't
    afford him (or weren't willing to pay what Lazio asked for: app. 14Mio.
    DM).
    
    Eduard
    

    re-1
    
    It's not yet 100% sure. Gullit has asked some time to think things
    over. Before friday he will give his decision. And I don't think it is
    such a bad decision from Bayern. Gullit is, in shape, a far more
    complete player as Riedle ! If he can throw away his sorrows (?) Bayern
    could have a lot of pleasure ! I wished he had signed for Ajax......
    
    John 

    Re -1
    
    Thanks for the info. I only quoted what I read in the newspaper.
    
    Surely it is difficult to compare Gullit to Riedle (or viceversa).
    Riedle is a pure striker, whereas Gullit is more versatile regarding
    the position he is playing.
    He definately would be an enrichment for the Bayern team and I wish 
    he signs, so I would have the opportunity to see him playing live :-).
    
    Btw, what kind of sorrows are you talking about? Do you mean his
    injuries or something else?
    
    Eduard

Just heard yesterday that the deal is off 'cause Gullit's girlfriend doesn't
want to life in Munich.


T_

    re-1 and those where the sorrows I forget to mention........
    
    John
    

As to counting the championships:

The was a German championship before the Bundesliga was
started. Regional leagues' champions played a cup to
determine who was German champion. 1.FC Nuernberg's
10 championships mostly come from that time.

Heiko

    
    
    	From the highlights I saw on Sat.1 (every Saturday at 5:00pm GMT),I
    reckon that Bor. M'Gladbach must be a good outside bet,considering
    their recent run of good form towards the end of the season.So my 
    predictions (based on TV highlights) would be as follows:-
    
    	Champions : Borussia M'Gladbach
    
    	EUFA   : Bor. Dortmund,Bayern Munich,Werder Bremen and Eintracht
    	         Frankfurt.
    
    
    Apart for Karl Hienz Reidle (sp?) signing for Dortmund,can you tell me
    any other major signings that have taken place in the BL during the
    summer ?
    
    
    
    
    
    Andy.

	Champions	Dortmund
	Runners up	Bayern

	UEFA		Frankfurt
			Werder
			Leverkusen

	Cup Winner	Hamburg

	Relegation	Wattenscheid, Leipzig, Duisburg


	2.Bundesliga 
	Promotion	St.Pauli, Bochum, Fortuna Koeln

Heiko

Other signings:
	Hamburg:	Ivanauskas from Vienna
			Kostner    from Saarbruecken
	Frankfurt:	Furtok	   from Hamburg

    Champions 	Dortmund
    Relegated   Schalke :^) 
    
    Cup Wiiners Rott Weiss Luedenscheid
    
    
    barry.

    
    Now this is what I would like some knowledgeable German chap to tell
    me. How does this Deutches Pokal work. Muenchen 1860 are also not in
    the competition. 
    
    It looks to me that the first round, having consisted of 12 games, was
    a reducing round to bring down from 76 clubs to 64 and therefore a 
    number that is manageable for knockout purposes.
    
    Question is ...What does this number consist of and how can an analogy
    be drawn against for example the English FA Cup.
    
    Example:	F,Sf,Qf,5th,4th,3rd ...3rd round consists of 64 clubs
    of which 46 are 1st and 2nd division. 
    	2nd round should therefore consist of (64-46)*2 clubs = 36
    	1st round should consist of 72 clubs of which 3rd and 4th division
    	clubs enter (48 clubs) leaving 24 NON-League clubs who go into the
    	hat for the first round draw....Anybody else care to go further on
    this one is most welcome !!!.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Dezzz.

    
    
    re. -1
    
        This round of the German Cup was only a qualifying round for teams
        from 3'rd league and lower.
    
        These teams have qualified first in local matches then getting up
        in regional matches to qualify round by round.
        At least the teams which qualified got now more atractive
    opponents.
        You can compare that system with the English FA Cup I think.
    
        Remark: Hope this info helps you on and maybe Heiko will add more
                information about the cup.
                
    
    christian_BVB_Support_Munich
                             

    As far as I remember, 1860 played and was beaten by Bayern Amateure on
    one of the first rounds.
    
    Regards,
    Margit
    

    
    Can't be. There has only one round so far and 1860 didn't participate
    in that one. According to my local paper, of course.
    
    Heiko
    

    Hmmh. My memory is pretty good and I can remember that there was a lost
    game against Bayern Amateure which created the newspaper headlines:
    1860 missed the chance on the cup.
    
    Could it be that there are qualification games for the amateurs? I'll
    try and find out.
    
    Have a good day,
    Margit
    

     >Now this is what I would like some knowledgeable German chap to tell
     >me. How does this Deutches Pokal work. Muenchen 1860 are also not in
     >the competition.
    
    Sorry Margit, I didn't realise you read the conference....I really
    meant chap or chapess !
    
    Anyway intersting comments...I'll buy the fact that all teams of the
    previous Bundesliga I and II would qualify making 18+24 = 42. All
    regional Pokal winners would qualify ( I would presume 10) accumulating
    to 52 leaving a figure of 24 'wildcards or other'. Amazing that even
    the Annual Kicker Almanak doesn't cover this. But there lies the
    different emphasis on Cup Vs League from different countries. In
    Germany or Italy buy the sports pages on Monday/Tuesday and a full
    country wide coverage of league is covered down to the smallest of
    them as against England where its not that intensive. The Cup on the
    other hand is a convenient stab at a European place rather than the
    revered league title winners. 
    The English FA Cup is a 'little' different though !!!   
     
    Dezzz.
    
    

 Margit are you knew to this conference or have you just been a reader in the
past?????? No matter its good to see another female in here. 

   Back to the German cup, Iam really confused... I thought it was similiar to
the FA cup in that every team had a chance to qualify. I was really looking
forward to seeing Hertha's Amateurs play again, they impressed everybody last
season except Ulf Kirstin.

                                                                  -dave-

    This is probably not the right topic for this, but yes I am fairly new
    to the conference. I am just reading, I am a fan (of 1860) and I am
    trying to pick up the English football vocabulary.
    
    I am pretty sure that I can tell you more about the German cup on
    monday. I see a  r e a l  expert tonight!
    
    Have a nice weekend,
    Margit
    

    
    >>Can't be. There has only one round so far and 1860 didn't participate
        in that one. According to my local paper, of course.
    
    Yes there was only one (main) first round but as I mentioned before
    the teams from the "Amateur" leagues start qualifying just one year
    before this round.
    I can't remember by which team 1860 was beaten off but it's definitly
    true.
    
    christian
    

    Ok, here we go with the German "Pokal" It's exactly the way as pointed
    out in note 285 and 289. Bundesliga I and II are in it by default. The
    amateurs qualify in a knock out system. These games already take place
    during the old season.
    
    Margit
    (who is extremely happy about 1860's victory in Stuttgart)
    
    
    

    That's an unusually low draw count for the first day of
    Bundersliga I and again Koln get off to their usual, 
    impressive start. 
    
    barry. 
    

    ROMPY????
    

       <<< Note 19.294 by ROMPY::OHAGANB "Better to reign in hell..." >>>
                           -< Calling Mr Panes..... >-

>    ROMPY????
    


Yo Bazza,

Its the name of the system.

Hope this helps,

Stuart.....and back to the football

The situation is as follows:

	The reason Stuttgart protested was because the free kick wasn't
	taken where the foul had occured but app. 7 - 10m to the left.
	It may be noted that the ball wasn't moving.
	What seemed to have irritated the Stuttgart defense was that
	the ref ran to the point where the foul had taken place pointing
	in the direction of the Stuttgart goal. I guess the players
	were waiting for him to have the ball placed where he was standing,
	but when Herzog took the shot, he just looked over to where the
	shot had been taken and gave the goal.
  	As simple as that :-)

                                                               go Bremen !! ;-)


  --+-------------------+--*******--+---------------------+------------+
    |                   |           |	                  |            |
    |                   +-----------+                     |            |
    |                                                     |            |
    |                                                     |            |
    |                                                     |            |
    +-----------------------------------------------------+            |
                                                                       |
                                                                       |
                                              1            2           |

     1 - point where ball was lying and goal scored from

     2 - point where foul occured and ref was standing


   Eduard 

    
    Can someone please list the results from last Saturday.I saw Bayern
    Munich losing away to Leverkusen,and saw some of Frankfurt - Bremen
    game which was 2-2 near to the end.How did it finish ?.The Frankfurt
    keeper made a complete blunder for the first goal !!
    
                                     
    Andy.

    Well, my bet Luedenscheid have gone but at least the marvellously
    named Raspo Elmshorn are in with a, erm, fighting chance. 
    
    barry.

    
    Raspo ( i.e. Rasensport) Elmshorn are out as well. Loast 3:1 to
    Eintracht Haiger.
    
    That's indeedy very sad, as Elmshorn qualified as Hamburg Cup winner
    and Elmshorn is my girlfriends' birthplace, too. 
    (And Michael Stich's hometown)
    
    Heiko

    Anyone know the latest scores ?

Heiko I'll see if I remember them correctly


       Gladbach       3-2  Schalke

       Kaiserslautern 3-1  Nuernberg

       Bremen         1-5  Duisburg

       Frankfurt      3-1  Karlsruhe

 Yep that's right... Highlights of the evening were Duisburgs away win to
champions Bremen. Bremen let in more goals at home in this one game than the
whole of last season.... second highlight was Johnny Okotos (sp) third goal for
Frankfurt, where he twisted and turned about 10 times before he put the ball in
the net. This will be goal of the season watch out... The ZDF reporter said it
was one of the most exciting goals he has seen in 30 years of reporting. Iam
sure SAT1 will show it again tonight Heiko..... Frankfurt look good, the other
two goals were scored by Bein. Nuernberg look like makor relegation material..
Bremen will recover, they play Munich next thursday in Bremen....


                                                      regards.....

                                                          -dave- 

Can any German football fans tell me about Uwe Hartenburger ?
He has just signed for Reading in Div.2 from Uerdingen (sp?).

Do you know of him ?

Thanks
Andy

    Germany played a team made up of non-German nationals who play their
    league football in Germany the other night. 2-0 to the Auslanders both
    scored by Chapuisat.

    What about the Karlsruhe? I saw on the television that the match has
    been postponed (or suspended?). Is this true?
    When it will be played?
    
    Pino
     

    Yes, I forgot to mention.
    
    It has been postponed to Nov. 9/10.
    
    Heiko

  Ed that looks like a ballet dancer!!!! How many beers did ya have yesterday
evening????!!!!

                                                            -dave-

    
    Here's hoping they do...this guy Pacult was on the scoresheet again.
    Shame he's only on loan...
    
    

    
    Bremen doesn't look very good just before their firt Champion's
    league match against Porto. They just keep on loosing points.
                              

    1860 has the option to buy Pacult after the season - for 70.000 Marks,
    if I remember right. So that's what they'll probably do.
    
    Margit
    

    
    70.000 DM !!!!  Hardly enough for a new Mercedes....
    
    

    Peter Pacult is from Austria, played for the national Austrian team.
    Age: still 33. So far he scored 10 goals this season. But I think his
    most important feature is his experience and the confidence he brought
    into the team. He turned out to be one of their most valuable (if not
    the most valuable) players. I think, 1860 was more than lucky to get
    him for so little money.
    
    Margit
    

    Almost forgot, he played for Stahl Linz before he came to Munich.
    
    Margit
    

  Margit I hope they can maintain their form, but at the moment their looking
good with a 5-6 point cushion to 4th place. It would be great to see them play
and beat that other team in Munich. 

  Did anybody see "Talk in Turm" a few weeks back with Uli Hoeness, the trainer
from Freiburg, and a few other chaps from DFB etc???? Hoeness is a real jerk,
he told the Freiburg trainer that they wouldn't survive, and that their stadium
isn't big enough for First Division footie... I like Ribbeck he has a very honest
personality but Hoeness is just one bad ass... Just ask Lothar Maetthaus.. He
attacked his wife verbally a few months ago...
                                                                    -dave-

    
    I would say most of Germany are hoping the Loewen get promoted. In fact
    it would be quite nice for Bayern to get stuffed at the Grunwalder
    Stadium and Hoeness to comment on their Stadium...That club Bayern is
    just toooooo arrogant.
    
    Dezzz.

    
    I was looking at the table in the Kicker there yesterday, and the team
    that really surprises me was Fortuna Koeln. Their away record is second
    to none but have only picked up 4 out of 16 home points. A good home
    run coupled with their outstanding away form could put them in
    contention...after all we're not even halfway through this league
    yet...
    
    Dezzz.

  Does anybody know if Tony Woodcock has still any involvement in the club?? He
used to play for them, and I also believe he was trainer for a while....

   Well Iam sure Hoeness feels a bit like a Jackass after Bayern got stuffed by
the team he was telling everybody wouldn't survive in the league, Freiburg. Only
3 weeks ago he was attacking their trainer in a talk show stating that their
stadium was too small and they wouldn't and couldn't survive in the top league.
I wish Frankfurt would stop screwing around and get back on wining ways, its 
hard to believe they lost their last three games with the same scoreline 0-3 and
their still at the top. Ah well the same will happen Man Utd.....;)


                                                              -dave-

    I think Frankfurt is off and will not come back.
    So there are some teams which can make it.
    Dortmund ? Bremen ? Bayern ? Hamburg ? Leverkusen ? or
    Moenchengladbach ? 
    I don`t know but from the players power i hope it`ll be
    Borussia Dortmund ...
    
    christian_BVB_support_Munich
    

I lost faith in Dortmund. Compared to last year they are 
lacking - what should I call it - "team spirit". Maybe they 
shouldn't have sold Rummenigge after all. Leverkusen looks 
pretty good to me (ask Stepi!). Let's see what happens next 
weekend.

Margit

    .363
    >>Maybe they shouldn't have sold Rummenigge after all
    
    Yes that's right I think they're missing a brilliant midfield
    player. Now somebody could say that there is Sammer, but
    Sammer in my opinion is brilliant in more defensive lines but
    isn't a man like 'Bein' or 'Schuster' ...
    
    >>Leverkusen looks pretty good to me
    
    Yes maybe at the moment ...
    But this team has no face and in the end they will become a position
    between 4-6.
    
    Don't loose your faith in Dortmund !!!!
    Next year after the winterpause they will go for the champion.
    And remember we have the best fans in the world (ole hier kommt 
    der BVB ...)
    
    christian_BVB_Support_Munich
     

    
    Does anyone know what has happened to Anthony Yeboah of Frankfurt ??? I
    haven't been watching the highlights on Sat 1 recently,but following
    the updates in this note,it looks like he hasn't scored since August or
    September.I would assume he is injured,does anyone know ?
         I also see that Borussia M'gladbach have started their late run in
    the league a few months earlier this season.What are the fixtures for
    this weekend ?
    
    Andy.
    
    
    

    Anthony Yeboah tore the ligaments of his knee and won't be back
    until beginning of next year (well, soon ;-)). He has already
    started training. Frankfurt surely will be happy when he's back again.
    They have been doing quite bad since his injury.
    
    Eduard (also looking forward for his comeback because he's a brilliant
    striker)

    >365 "the best fans"
    
    At least they are the most musical ones. Their singing is incredibly.
    I think that's why Brondby lost in the end.
    
    Margit
    

    
    I noticed in the Man Utd note the references of one player making the
    team tick...Yeboah must rank as THE one for Frankfurt...since his
    injury they've done almost nothing apart from get into the Quarter
    finals of the UEFA cup.
    
    VERY tight in the Bundesliga...
    
    Dezzz.

    re .364
    
    Yes Dortmund played very poor and mediocre
    this season, but I think all teams in the
    german BL played mediocre this BL-season !!
    Exception is Fankfurt which played some
    brilliant matches in the first BL-rounds.
    Or did you see an excellent match from
    Munich, Bremen, Stuttgart ...
    or by Leverkusen ??
    We have mostly a balanced season ...
    
    christian
                                      

    
    Uwe Fuchs (Kaiserslautern) is on loan to Dynamo Dresden.
    
    Drago Pancev (Milan?) is on loan to VfB Leipzig. REALLY! 
    
    Heiko

    Stange kicked of.
    
    As a result of innumerable defeats in recent games 
    coach Stange from Leipzig had to sign of.
    New coach will become J.Sundermann, former coach
    of VFB Stuttgart.
    
    christian

    German Cup Semifinals
    
    Rot Weiss Essen	- Tennis Borussia Berlin	2:0
    Dynamo Dresden	- SV Werder Bremen		0:2
    
    Heiko

    
    Heiko,
    
    I was switching between RTL and the England game last night...what was
    all the commotion with about 10 minutes to go..it had visions of when
    Red-Star were playing Dresden a few years back and the match got called
    off...
    
    Regards,
    
    Dezzz. 

    
    I have no idea, Dezzz.  I've got the score from ARD Videotext.
    
    Heiko

    I think I read somewhere else in here that Werder Bremen cruised
    through this game winning it by 11 - 1.
    
    
    Or was it 0-5 in favour of Porto (that would explain all the Portuguese
    exclamations in here today)  ;-)
    
    Jerry.

    
    WARNING!
    
    Next note is on another topic.
    
    Heiko
    

    
    re .-1
    
    It's about time, too
    

    
    Yahoo....Freiburg stay up!!

    
    Eh Hieko.....I notice that you have 4 (FOUR) promotion slots from
    the 2. Bundesliga ...Do you know something I don't ????
    
    Dezzz.

    
    Trnansfer rumours from the german press:
    
    - Andy Moeller and Julio Caesar from Juve will
      sign in Dortmund ??
    
    - Juergen Kohler also from Juve will sign in Munich
    
    
    cK

>    - Juergen Kohler also from Juve will sign in Munich
    
Good news - TSV will need to strengthen their squad to do well in the 
Bundesliga!!

But more to the point - what is Bayern's team going to look like next year? 
I've lost track of all of their signings. And where's the money coming from?

grahame

    >   I've lost track of all of their signings. 
        And where's the money coming from?
    
    Looks like a strong team for the next round. 
    
    New players are Papin (french striker from Milan), 
    Oliver Kahn (goalie from Karlsruhe),
    Juergen Kohler (defense from Juve but that's only rumour) 
    and eventual Andy Herzog (austrian midfield player from Bremen).
    
    And new coach is Giuseppe Trapatoni (Juve)
    
    I think there is only one reason for these transfers, 
    Munich wants to win the 'Champions League'.
    
    Don't know where the money comes from but they have a good
    management which can use funds from former times. Also they
    have a strong sponsor (Opel) which supports them with money.
    
    We can expect high tension for the next BL-season.
    Don't disregard Dortmund !!!!
    
    That's all I know
    
    cK
    
    

>            <<< Note 19.414 by UNTADH::KRUEGER "I lost (my mind)" >>>
>                               -< Bayern Munich >-

>    Don't disregard Dortmund !!!!

Ho ho, I think I remember that line from a year ago! But Bayern are certainly 
trying this year - it'll be interesting.

g

>    Zweite Bundesliga, 36th day

>	Essen		- TB Berlin	4:6

So that's why they're called Tennis Borussia?!!

g

    
    Schupp   Sutter   Scholl(Sternkopf)   Ziege
    
    
    christian

    transfer news from Dortmund...
    
    The transfer of Moeller and Caesar is perfect.
    
    They come for 11.4 Mio DM.
    
    And we've still lots of money ...
    
    christian_BVB_support_munich

    
    Wait till the mighty Motherwell get you in the UEFA Cup 

    
             BVB - Motherwell    2 - 1
    
      Motherwell - BVB           0 - 3
    
    cK

    There is a rumor, that Ewald Lienen, the coach of MSV Duisburg has 
    been replaced by Bongartz. Could somebody from Germany confirm this?
    
    Frank

    True! The change took place last tuesday.
    
    Margit
    

    Trappatoni to leave Bayern Munich (or already has done) and become the 
    new Italian National manager.

Yesterday Trappatoni has been confirmed till next summer . Conference
of Bayern manager Rummenige.

Heribert

Dortmund - La Coruna    3:1  (0:0,1:0,1:1)
(first match 0:1)

Today I wish Salzburg a litte bit of luck, Dortmund had yesterday.
After 90 minutes Dortmund - La Coruna  1:0 (goal: Zorc)
Two bar shots of La Coruna in this 90 minutes.

1:1 Alfredo  
2:1 Riedle   (La Coruna in next round)
3:1 Ricken   (119.min)

Heribert

    
    
    Can anyone tell me what the latest news is on the guys that got put up
    for transfer by Eintracht Franfurt,and what actually happened in the
    training incident for this to happen ?
    	Gaudino has been signed up by Manchester City until the end of the
    season,but what about Yeboah and Okacha (sp?).I can't believe that
    Frankfurt would want to sell Yeboah !
    
    Andy.

    
    As I recall it:
    
    Jupp Heynckes, coach of Eintracht (ex Bilbao), is a man who sees
    discipline as a footballer's most important virtue. Gaudino,
    Okocha and Yeboah apparently disagreed and put intuition above all.
    For some reason or another, the three of them (or maybe the entire
    team) had to do an extra training. G,O and Y didn't actually decline to 
    take part but took a day off due to 'illness'. As a consequence to this
    behaviour, Heynckes removed them from the team, which eventually beat
    Hamburg 2-0 nonetheless. A week later or so, they were put on the 
    transfer list.
    Another week later Gaudino was taken to custody right after leaving
    the well-known Gottschalk Late-Night talkshow. He was released the
    day after, officials would not issue a dementi when asked if he had
    confessed. Something with stolen cars and (maybe) insurances.
    
    Heiko

    
    Huh...he didn't seem to be a great disciplinarian whilst at Bayern
    Munich...!!!
    
    Dezzz.

    
    
    	Any info. on Uwe Fochs of Kaiserslautern . 
    	He is currently on loan to the English 1st Division leaders
    	Middlesbrough .
    
    
    	ta ,
    
    	Bill

    
    
    	Wasn't he just on loan to Fortuna Koln ?
    
    	Bill

Hello Bill,

You are right about Uwe Fuchs. Presently he belongs to 1. FC 
Kaiserslautern and is on loan with Fortuna Koeln. I looked 
into the records for you. Uwe Fuchs (age 29) has been around 
quite a bit. During his career he played for 11 clubs 
amongst them VfB Stuttgart, 1 FC Kaiserslautern (2x), 
Fortuna Koeln (2x), 1 FC Koeln, Fortuna Duesseldorf. In 65 
Bundesliga matches he has made 14 goals.

Regards
Margit

    
    
    As everybody knew for months becomes now truth.
    Trappatoni is leaving and Rehagel from Werder will come
    for the next saison.
    But what's their aim ? I saw them last saturday in a friendly
    against Mannheim and they played not as a team that will neither
    stop Dortmund or reach the next round in the Champions League !!!
    
    chris
    

It's interesting, the Austrian players in Germany Anton Polster (Koeln,
3rd in scorerlist) and Andreas Herzog (Werder Bremen, next year Bayern Munich)
are in the Top Team of Franz Beckenbauer.

Austria Salzburg has defeated the German teams E.Francfurt and Karlruher SC
last year in the European cup. Austria Wien has defeated Bayer Leverkusen
last week 3:0 and 3:1 - but in Europe there is only one national-team
behind Austria !!

Heribert

Interesting game:

1860 Muenchen - Karlsruher SC   1:0

3 Red cards for Karlsuhe !!! (all fouls)

    
    
    	Balakov , international bulgarian player , now playing at Sporting
    (Portugal) is said to be a Stuttgart player for the next 3 years.
    	Can anyone confirm this ?
    
    	Luis.

    re. -1
    
    It's not sure, but he can be one player, who come to Stuttgart to
    replace Dunga (he will play next season in Japan).
    
    markusFCB_if_it's_perfect_I_will_write_it_in_this_topic

    
    
    Balakov will be a Stuttgart player for the next 2 years.The deal was
    done yesterday.
    
    Luis.

    Is that Oojanicka Balakov, the famous well-endowed Ballet dancer ?
    
    
    Ian.

    
    Result from Tuesday ...
    
    1860 Muenchen 1-1 Bayer Uerdigen....
    
    Looks like the long hard struggle has begun for the Loewen...
    
    	Dezzz.

Because of that the FCB supporters are very quiet this week, some informations
from German league (24th) with Austrian touch.

The games with Austrians:

FC Koeln - Bayern Munich   3:1
Toni Polster (2 goals, 1 prepared)
Hamburg - Bremen 	   0:0
1860 Muenchen - Dreseden   3:1  ( I hope the Lions will be next year in the
                                  Bundesliga again)


other games:

Dortmund - Uerdingen       3:1
Gladbach - Freiburg	   1:2
Frankfurt - Schalke 04     0:3
(The end of coach Jupp Heynckes)	 
Stuttgart - Leverkusen	   4:2
Duisburg - Bochum	   3:1
Kaiserslautern-Karlsruhe   0:0


1. Dortmund		24/ 36 pts
2. Bremen       	24/ 35 pts
3. Kaiserslautern	24/ 33
.
6. Bayern Muenchen		24/ 30
.
10.Koeln		24/ 23
.
15.1860 Muenchen	24/ 16	

Heribert	

Another good weekend for the Austrian playsers in Germany.

Toni Polster shot the 3:1 for FC Koeln. Now Polster is 1st in the scorer
table equal with 3 others.

Andreas Herzog shot the 2:0 for Bremen. Bremen is 2nd with same points
as Dortmund.

This could be a dream-finish of the two Austrians : One Champion, the other
top scorer.

Heribert

Heiko,

Our team is class D, I think. The reasons are, that the players don't 
show good performance (Herzog has played in the last years 1-2 good games
in the Austrian team, and more bad one) - why ?

After the death of the great coach Ernst Happel, Austrian people and players
had the wish , Didi Constantini should be the new coach. Constantini
has learned as co-coach of Happel. The alternative has been Otto Baric
(A.Salzburg).

But the Austrian industry (football president Mauhart is president of the 
Austrian tobacco) has decided for Herbert Prohaska (coach of Austria Memphis
/Memphis= an Austrian sort of tobacco).

Austrian spectators did not visit the games, the players did not like to play
in this team. For the players of Salzburg the EC has been more important than
any game of the team. I believe this situation should not be possible in Germany.

So the team playes in the last 3 years only bad games and not as an unit.

Their is a great difference between the players of Vienna and "the West"
(Salzburg and Innsbruck) nad following troubles in the team.

I think the individual players are better than our team, I hope for a new
team coach after the probably defeat in Ireland.

Heribert   

    
    Well good luck then. 
    
    Unless we meet again in the World Cup quarterfinals !!! :-)
    
    Heiko

Thanks,

" Unless we meet again in the World Cup quarterfinals !!! :-)"
Not each WC is Cordoba. ("lang,lang ist's her")

Heribert

Cup semi-final:

FC Koeln - Wolfsburg (2.Liga) 	0:1 (0:1)
goal: 20.min Reich

It has been the first time I have seen in TV a complete game of the FC Koeln.
I have been curious of the dream duo Labbadia with our Austrian Polster.
But I have seen nothing of Polster/Labbadia !

Congratulation to Wolfsburg, they have reached the final with good 
performance.

The second in final should be the winner Moenchengladbach - Kaiserslautern,
I think.

Heribert 

Eintracht Frankfurt  -  FC Bayern Munich   2:5 (2:1)

By God, I am no FCB supporter , but the football rules in Germany are silly !!!

Because of manpower problems (no healthy 11 players) Bayern had to play
with 3 young players from their amateur team. In the 72th minute Hamann,
the 4th player from the amateur team , was changed in (other reserve players
have been Sutter, aso).

After the game their has been a protest, only 3 amateurs are allowed to play
in the same team in Germany's Bundesliga. 

Probably result :  2:0 for Frankfurt

This would be not a correct result for football (my opinion).

Heribert

    
    Yes, on the surface it does seem a stupid rule....alongside teams not
    being allowed to field players under a certain age more than x times a
    season.
    
    	I don't know whether it is to protect the actual amatuer players
    themselves or the fact that here are Bayern Muenchen, one of the most
    professional football clubs in the world and they're dishing up 4
    amatuers....who get nothing for playing ??
    
    Anybody out there care to explain the background to 'why' these rules
    exist ??                                  
    
    Dezzz. 

    According to Abendzeitung: To prevent dumping prices in transfers
    (whatever this means).
    
    Margit
    

    
    Heiko, 
    	Didn't get the Kicker this morning...did Bielefeld drop a
    point..???
    
    Dezzz.

    
    See ARD/ZDF videotext pages 260-263 :-)
    
    It's all from memory.
    (apart from Regionalliga Nord, that's on my Hamburger Morgenpost).
    I can also provide Oberliga Hamburg/Schleswig-Holstein and Verbandsliga
    Hamburg, but thats all)
    
    Heiko

    
    Not to worry Heiko...I must have a coffee break anyway.....
    
    'you looking forward to visiting the 60'er in the Bundesliga next
    season???
    
    Dezzz. 

Hit of the 29th round

Werder Bremen - Borr. Dortmund	  3:1  (0:0)

In the first halftime Dortmund has been the better team, but had only 2 chances
for a goal. Bremen played with one forward.

The second half: the show of our Austrian Herzog and "Super Mario" Basler.
54. minute Herzog gets the ball from the middle line, sprint to the goal of 
Dortmund, 17 meters before, a dream shot -  1:0
59. min: Herzog's tackling from the cornerline , pass to the middle, 
volley goal of Basler 2:0
85.: A shot of Basler 30 meters away with the help of Dortmund's Sammer 3:0
89. 3:1 penalty Moeller

A hard game (2 red and six yellow cards), fair comments of both coaches after
the game (Hitzfeld and Rehagel are both much sympathical)

Now Werder Bremen is leader in Germany , one point in front of Dortmund.

Heribert

    
    > -< Green/White leader in Germany and Austria >-
    
    	Ah, if only it was the same in Scotland too ....
    

    
>A hard game (2 red and six yellow cards), fair comments of both coaches after
>the game (Hitzfeld and Rehagel are both much sympathical)
    
    	sympathical ??? do you mean likable 
    
    Dezzz.

sympathical ??? do you mean likable 
- I think this is the correct word .

Heribert

    I believe Bremen won 6-0 at the weekend and Dortmund got a draw? Do
    these sides meet on the run in? 
    
    barry.

Bremen-Uerdingen 6:1

Freiburg-Dortmund 1:1

Bremen 2 points in front of Dortmund.

Heribert

Ah, sorry.  wrong conf.

    
    There was some paper talk (Sunday Mail) at the weekend about
    Bodo Illgner moving to Rangers. Has there been any similar 
    stories in Germany ???
    

						(last match: (A)way, (H)ome)
> 1. SV Werder Bremen		69:36	48:18	A: Bayern
> 2. BVB Borussia Dortmund	65:33	47:19	H: Hamburg
 

    So, correct me if I'm wrong, Dortmund pick up the title if they:
    
    a. Defeat Hamburg and Bremen lose at Bayern
    
    or 
     
    b. Defeat Hamburg by two clear goals and Bremen draw, on the assumption 
    that if points and goal difference are the same the title is awarded to
    the side that scores more goals. That's the way it works in England
    (remember Liverpool v Arsenal in '89?). Is it the same in Germany?
    
    Are there any plans to show either of those matches live, if so on 
    what station? If I remember rightly you tend only to get recorded 
    highlights on terrestrial German stations unless things have changed 
    in the last few years?
    
    Come on you Dortmund!
    
    barry.

    
    Thse two matches will be shown live on Premiere (I'd say the Bayern v
    Bremen since this is probably the match with most riding on it).
    
    Unfortunately you would need a card/key to unscramble the signal. If
    you know anyone with a 1.20 m dish then you have a good chance with the
    following 'directions'.
    	Point at Kopernikus 23.5,25.5 or 28.5 and the possibility is there
        though the transmission is usually 'wobbled' slightly and is
        uncomfortable to watch.
    	Point at Intelsat 1.0 W and pick up the Swedish channel which shows
        German football. Unfortuantely this is soft-scrambled in DMAC (not
    	D2 MAC) so you'll need a Eurocrypt-S (not M) decoder (no card
        necessary). TVN in clear PAL on this Sat 'might' just show it.
    
    Where are you based....YUPPY is in London ?? There might be a German
    bar in London licensed to show the game via Premiere (KO 14:30 BST).
    
    Hope this helps a little.
    
    Cheers,
    
    	Dezzz. 
                               
    
     

    
    Dezzzz,
    
    	am I right in saying that Bayern have to win (& someone else lose)
    for them to get into Europe at all next year or have they qualified via
    a cup competition? ......and FC Freiburg are already in a UEFA Cup
    place? Didn't the Bayern manager have something unpleasant to say about
    Freiburg when they got promoted a couple of years back?
    
    JBG

Bayern need Moenchengladbach to win the Cup, otherwise they're not in the UEFA 
Cup - it makes no difference if they win or not. Freiburg and Kaiserslautern 
have the other 2 spots.

grahame

    
    Mmmm, yes of course ...I'd forgotten the huge goal-difference between
    Bayern and Gladbach.
    
    Well, wouldn't it be ironic if Gladbach lose the Cup and Tottenham
    (after being almost forced to compete in the Inter-Toto) manage to
    carve out a UEFA Cup place....which reminds me....
    
    Wasn't today the day when the DFB decides who enters the Inter-ToTo ???
    (Bayern I suppose themselves could make it inside the back-door).
    
    Dezzz.
    

There is the possibility to start in the UEFA Cup after winning the
Intertoto-Cup in summer.

Which German teams are starting in the Intertoto ?

Heribert

    
    Ok, I've just had a look on the Internet ( Rec.Sport.Soccer Statistics
    Foundation.) and I notice that a provisional placing is set for
    Gladbach or Wolfsburg. Doesn't make sense to me I must admit.
    
    Dezzz,

>There is the possibility to start in the UEFA Cup after winning the
>Intertoto-Cup in summer.

No-one wins the Intertoto Cup! The last 4 teams are entered into the UEFA Cup 
preliminary round . . . I wonder why they called it a Cup?

g 

>>No-one wins the Intertoto Cup! The last 4 teams are entered into the UEFA Cup 
>>preliminary round . . . I wonder why they called it a Cup?

Anybody know how many teams are entered for the Intertoto?

Even better, does anybody have the draw?

Michael. 

Cologne/Frankfurt in with Spurs, Swiss team, Osters (Sweden) & Ruders Velenje
(Slovakia).

Karlsruhr in with Sheff Wed, Gornik Zabrze (Poland), Silkeborg (Denmark),
& a Swiss team.

Wimbledon in wirh RSC Charleroi (Belgium), Bursaspor (Turkey), Beitar Jerusalem
& Kosice or ASK Bratislava (Slovakia)

Partick Thistle in with Metz, Linzer (Austria), Keflavik (Iceland) & Zagreb 
(Croatia).

60 teams in all in the 'competition'.

    
    Kostadinov ( Bayern Munchen ) is said to have signed for Bayern for one
    more year. This player belongs to F.C.Porto ( my team ) and he was
    borrowed to Corunha ( Spain) last season. Corunha borrowed him to
    Bayern... Confused ?
    Can anyone confirm this ?
    
    Luis.

German newspapers have said, Kostadinov will not play in the team of Bayern
next year - but newsappers ?

Heribert

    Hello Heribert,
    
    this is not necessarily the end of Peter Pacult's career. Apparently,
    he is negotiating a new contract with some Austrian clubs. And since
    1860 doesn't ask for any transfer money, it should be easy for him. By
    the way, he had a very emotional good-bye in Munich in a sold-out
    stadium before the match 1860 : Kaiserslautern. When he made his way
    around the field, the crowds cheered and called his name. They all knew
    how much they owed him. An outstanding personality who made a lot of
    friends here in Munich.
    
    Margit
    

    Hmm... looks like Totteringham are going to be in for an interesting
    year... I wonder if they will finally get relegated after just missing
    out last year with the arrival of Klinnsman...
    
    	Cheers,
    
    		Rick.

    Is this Spurs' youth side that played, or is this a bad omen for the
    upcomming season?

Interesting friendship game:

La Coruna - Bayern Muenchen	7:0

    
    Good start to the season for Monchengladbach,but can anyone tell me
    if Heiko Herrlich is still with the club,or did he get transfered ?
    What were the significant signings in the pre-season ?
    
    Andy.

I think Herrlich went to Dortmund, and scored in their first game. Everyone 
else went to Bayern.

g

    
    What's the forward line at Dortmund this year,as I understand they also
    signed Sosa from Inter Milan ? 
    
    Andy.

Yesterday I have seen in German TV:

German Cup - 2nd round
 
Fortuna Duesseldorf - Bayern Munich     3:1 (1:0)
 
50.000; Pancev (20.), Cyron (79.),
Seeliger (90.); Helmer (74.)

Heribert

    ....meanwhile 1860 thrashed Frankfurt 5-1.....
    
    Who would have guessed that Bayern would be the odd one out of the
    advancing teams from Bavaria (Nurnberg and Unterhaching also won).
    
    The funny thing was that Klinnsman was on Five Live (recorded
    previously) talking about the 'international' team that Beckenbauer had
    put together....
    
    Dezzz.

I saw the highlights of the Lions' game last night - great stuff. I loved the 
4th (?) goal where instead of trying to conjour a way through the defence he 
just chipped the keeper from 25 yards.

2 wins in a row at the OlympiaStadion - they'll be wondering why they didn't 
move there earlier!

g

    
    German football results on the Web (NOS Dutch teletext) :
    
    Results : http://www.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/tt/nos/page/680-1
    Table   : http://www.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/tt/nos/page/680-2

1/4 final German Cup:

Bor. Dortmund - Karlsruhe SC 	1:3 (0:1)

1/2 final:

Kaiserslautern - B.Leverkusen
Karlsruhe SC - Duesseldorf

Awesome performance by the Dortmund "defence" last night. They treated every 
high ball as if it was a bomb coming in. They'll need a new defence (and 
goalkeeper) for the Rangers game.

But Karlsruhe played well too - a well-deserved win.

g

Hi Neil,

12-13 March - plenty of time to save up the plane fare.

g

So what is going on at Bayern?

Joint top of the League and on the weekend before the UEFA Cup Final, they sack 
the trainer. Beckenbauer appoints himself as Trainer for the rest of the 
season - no wonder he needed a police escort to training yesterday!

grahame

My point of view of this event last Saturday:

Bayern lost at home against Hansa Rostock. The "Bayern - mafia" * never has
given the coach Otto Rehagel (a half year ago he has been announced the best
German coach of the last years) any chance.

* Beckenbauer,Hoeness,Rumenigge

An example: There has been a problem with the player Mehmet Scholl in the autumn
season,Rehagel wished to fire this player -> result: the president of Bayern
Munich - Franz Beckenbauer - has given Scholl a 4 years contract !!

Beckenbauer and Hoeness fired Rehagel last weekend, informing him ten minutes
before the press conference .(The chairmans have not been fair the last half
year, why should they be in the last moment).
The decision has been made together with three players of Bayern .

Bayern's Austrian player Andreas Herzog has been the only one, who
had courage, saying the firing of Rehagel is a dirty trick.

Bayern's new coach next year will be Trappatoni (6th in Germany with Bayern 
two years ago).

Franz Beckenbauer , named "Kaiser Franz" has been one of the best football 
players, but humanly it seems, he is not one of the best.

If Bayern will be winner of the UEFA Cup and/or Champion of Germany, than 
Beckenbauer is the great hero.
If Bayern has no success, this will be cause of Rehagels's bad work -
an easy way of "Kaiser Franz" , same has happened with Bayern coach Ribbeck.

The crowd of Austria's people wishes Bordeaux the best for winning the UEFA Cup
and Borr.Dortmund for German's Championshipment.

Heribert

    Borussia Dortmund beat Bayern Munich 3-2 last night, to go 3 points clear 
    with 2 games to go. All that after Bayern were 2-0 ahead, ho-ho :-)
    
    I'll bet Otto was delighted with that win :-) and a
    lot of Germans happy after the disgraceful way he was treated.
    
    1860 drew 1-1 to maintain 8th position.
    
    - Robin

Beckenbauer - after the match: " We will not be champion this year
We have not lost the championshipment in this game, reason are the last
four games (with Otto Rehagel).

Easy, to be successful ?

Heribert

>    Borussia Dortmund beat Bayern Munich 3-2 last night, to go 3 points clear 
>    with 2 games to go. All that after Bayern were 2-0 ahead, ho-ho :-)
    
Not exactly! Bayern lost 3-2 at Werder Bremen (Rehhagel's old club!), Dortmund 
beat Leverkusen (I think) 2-0.

Personally, I can't stand either side - Bayern don't deserve to win anything 
(though Klinsmann probably deserves the UEFA Cup himself), and Dortmund are a 
bunch of whining primadonnas. What a pity 1860 and Karlsruhe left their good 
runs to the second half of the season!

>    1860 drew 1-1 to maintain 8th position.
    
Yes, they tried very hard to let Kaiserslautern win this - how many open goals 
did they miss? Kaiserslautern look doomed, along with Eintracht now.

g

    
    
    News this morning stated that Everton are prepared to pay him 50k a
    week!!!!, although Cosmopolitan Chelsea are favourites at the moment.
    
    Danny.

    >News this morning stated that Everton are prepared to pay him 50k a
    >week!!!!
    
    	Plus a helicopter if he wants to live in London & only travel to
    Liverpool when he wants to train etc.
    
    Cheers,
    
    	Rick.
    	

    
    Rangers turned him down due to his past criminal record....doesn't have
    one !  hahahahahahahhahahha
    
    TeePee

    
    Cup: semi-finals
    
    yesterday: Energie Cottbus 3:0 Karlsruher SC
               (3rd league)
    
    tonight: Stuttgart - Hamburger SV
    
    Final: 14th June in Berlin      
    
    markusFCB_  

German Cup - 2nd semifinal


 VfB STUTTGART - Hamburger SV  2:1 (1:1)
 50.000; Balakow (15.), Schneider (59.);
 Hartmann (19.)
 Red Card: Schneider (89.);Iwanauskas (86.)


 Interesting Austrian point of view, wich Austrian player would reach the
 final - Franz Wohlfahrt (goalkeeper of Stuttgart) or Schopp (HSV).
 Good game, both teams had enough chances to win.

 The referee was 85 minutes a very,very well acting man, no errors and
 problems. But in the 86th minute he has shown HSV's Ivanauskas yellow/red
 for nothing and in the 89th minute Stuttgart's Schneider for his first
 foul (the word foul is to heavy for this little touching).

Heribert

    
    Who is likely to win the cup??? Is there chance that 1860 will make a UEFA
    cup spot
    
    

    
    If Stuttgart win the cup then the team which on the 6th place will
    qualified for the UEFA cup. In this case it will be 1860.
    
    markusFCB_

    
    Anyone know if mr Koch is a good goalkeeper?
    
    from the rangers list
    
    German goalkeeper Georg Koch could be the next foreign star to
    commit his future to Rangers.
    The Scottish champions have been linked with the 25-year-old Fortuna
    Dusseldorf goalkeeper.
    And Koch was quoted today as saying that he may choose a move to Ibrox
    despite interest from Italian giants Milan.
    
    Liam.

    
    Liam....when you say "good"....do you mean he is good "technically" or
    good in the sense that, unlike Goram, he doesn't drink gallons, shag
    everything that moves, gamble himself into serious debt, drive when
    drunk, have a rap-sheet as long as my arm....and play CRICKET ! ????
    (thats the worst offence by the way !)
    
    Just curious
    Twev

    
    Hi Trevor..
    
    If he is anywhere near as good as Goram with the debauchery <sp> then
    he'll be one helluva keeper without it then :-)
    
    I do agree with the cricket sentiment though, thats just going to far,
    even Gazza does'nt do that. :-)
    
    Liam.

     
    Koch is a real good keeper but to 90% he will stay in germany and sign
    a new contract at cologne.
    
    markusFCB_