Conference trucks::football;1

>> AC MILAN
>> AJAX AMSTERDAM
>> Austria Salzburg/Maccabi Haifa
>> AEK Athen/Glasgow Rangers

	Sounds strange to me.. Ajax and AC werent supposed to end up in the
    same group, since they are seeds #1 and #2.
    
    	Of course, the good news (for me ) would be Ajax, Milan, Barcelona and
    Manchester outside Paris SG's group...
    
    	Anybody with the whole story ???
    
    	Eric

Well, the other two groups are:

Bayern Munich
Spartak Moscow
Silkeborg or Dynamo Kiev
Paris SG or Izoo Vac (Hungary)

and

Steau Bucarest or Servette
Legia Varsovie or Hadjuk Split
Lisbon
Anderlecht

Yesterday's results

Maccabi Haifa - Austria Salzburg  1:2 (0:0)
10.000, 
Goals: 1:0  (48.,Revivo / Penalty), 1:1 (83.,Huetter), 1:2 (90.Mladenovic / Pen)

Salzburg had the luck, they did not have in last year's UEFA Cup final.
Both penalties have been gifts of the referee. The 1:1 of Adi Huetter was
wonderful.

AEK Athen - Glasgow Rangers    2:0 (1:0)
35.000
Goals: Dimitris Saravakos (45.,70.)
He had the chances to make two goals more.


Will this be the group of the A's ?

AC Milan
Ajax
Austria Salzburg
AEK Athen


Heribert

    >>Will this be the group of the A's ?
    
    
    Well, we know about AC Milan, Ajax and AEK Athens.  Did Austria
    Salzburg make it ?
    
    Dave

I have been in holidays the last three weeks.

Austria Salzburg - AEK Athen  3:1 (3:0)

general: 5:2

Tomorrow firts game in Vienna:    Austria Salzburg - AEK Athen

I'll visit it and tell You.

Heribert

Sorry, this should be my wish for tomorrow:

correct:

Austria Salzburg - Maccabi Haifa  3:1 (3:0)

Heribert

Austria Salzburg  -  AEK Athen   0:0

What does this team (AEK) in the Champions League ? How is it possible to
win with this team against Glasgow?

AEK Athen's team has played the most destructive football I have ever seen.
90 minutes 11 players are standing in their half, around theyr own goal.

Austria Salzburg made the mistake , to shoot no goal, they played such good as
last year.

They had chances for a goal in the 16. (Aigner), 50. (Mladenovic),
57.(Mladenovic),62. (Jurcevic), 70. (Jurcevic), 71. (Stadler) and in the 81.
minute.
In the 81th minute Jurcevic' shoot has gone to the left bar and than to the 
goalkeeper (much luck for AEK).

Statistics: Corners:      9:0 for Salzburg
            Goal-shots:  14:1 for Salzburg

I am sorry for all teams as Maccabi Haiffa, Royal Antwerpen aso. They were
better than this harmless team AEK Athen and would have more rights to play
in this League.

I think , it will be more easy for Salzburg to win in Athen than at home.
I dont believe that Athen will play such unattractive at home.

It will not be easy for Milan and Ajax to break this defending team.



AJAX AMSTERDAM - AC MILAN       2:0 (0:0) 

Goals : de Boer (50.), Litmanen (77.)


Heribert

AC Milan  - Austria Salzburg   3:0 (1:0)

discussion note 447.

AEK Athen - Ajax Amsterdam     1:2 (1:1)

It will be not probably , that there will be a repeat of the game
AC Milan against Austria Salzburg.

The UEFA will  decide Thursday,6.10.94 all problems of the European games,
without the game Milan - Salzburg.

The decision of the result will not be before 14.10. Insider believes, the
power of Italian politics has won - the date of the decision will be too late
for a new game - there will be only a fine for Milan.

Heribert 

    Hardly a surprising outcome given that Milan were one of the prime
    movers in the Champions League. Call me an old cynic if you like but
    something about money talks springs immediately to mind...
    
    Stuart

30 minutes ago the "judge" of football had made the decision:
The bottle-hit was seen , it had been proved, but now the judgement will follow:

Milan - Austria Salzburg:

- no new match will be
- no 3:0 for Salzburg will be

The curious decision:

AC Milan - Austria Salzburg   3:0

AC Milan will get no points, but 3:0 goals are guilty.
Austria Salzburg has been in right, but 0 points, 0:3

.....


Now the table looks more than curious:

1.	AJAX AMSTERDAM		2 2 0 0  4:1	6
2.	AEK ATHEN		2 0 1 1  1:2    1
3.	AUSTRIA SALZBURG	2 0 1 1  0:3	1
4.	AC MILAN		2 1 0 1  3:2    0


Heribert

    Whaaat...so BOTH teams get 0 points?? This sounds like the most
    revolutionary decision of all time!
    
    Dom

New information:

Next two home matches of MILAN not in their stadium.

Sorry to table: AJAX 4 points (2 for win)

Heribert

    That's incredible decision.
    
    Judges demonstrates they haven't 'attributes' to take a decision.
    
    I'm sure this decision is not what teams were waiting for.
    
    What does it mean Milan wins 3-0 and takes no points?
    
    Pino (Milan fan)

>    That's incredible decision.
	I totally agree, I just don't get it...

>    What does it mean Milan wins 3-0 and takes no points?
	This looks like a small fine (or non benefit) since every point in
	the mini league implies whatever amount of money (~2 million FFRS
	comes to mind), that much UEFA will be able to keep to themselves...

								.Andre.

    I know that people are disgusted by the decision but can anyone
    honestly say that they are surprised. Lets face it Berlusconni (sp)
    before he became Italian PM/President, whatever he is, was aprime mover
    in the Champions League. Milan are champions of Europe, the biggest
    draw in the competition (Man U fans - Don't delude yourselves, you are
    not the biggest draw by any means) and holders of the competition. Lets
    face it boys and girls - Money talks at UEFA even louder than it does
    at national FA headquarters around the world. There was absolutely no
    way that Milan were going to have points deducted when they have
    already lost to Ajax. If EUFA had deducted points it would have made it
    less of a certainty that Milan would get to the Semi - Finals and then
    the cash made for the clubs and EUFA would have been less. In a
    perverse kind of way, the decision makes perfect business sense but is
    an insult to natural justice.
    
    Stuart
    
    

    re: last few
    
    With all this talk of Milan having so much clout and money that they
    are above the law, and with my memory being what it is, can anyone
    confirm for me that Milan were kicked out of Euro competition for a
    year not so long ago for some fracas (floodlights spring to mind) ?
    
    Brian.

    Stuart,
    
    Milan *have* had their three points deducted for the win over Salzburg
    but the goal difference still stands. That's my understanding of it
    anyway.
    
    Paul.
    

    
    Re .19
    
>    There was absolutely no way that Milan were going to have points deducted 
>    when they have already lost to Ajax.
    
    Sorry I don't follow you. Do you mean that Milan should have been
    stripped off of points they haven't got, or are you just in write-only
    mode :-)

    >Milan *have* had their three points deducted for the win over Salzburg
    >but the goal difference still stands. That's my understanding of it
    >anyway.
    
    Yep, me too. Weird decision, all the same. It *really* does look as
    though UEFA want to avoid awarding points to either team so as to keep
    the dosh!
    
    Dom
    

    OK
    
    I stand corrected on the major points (I've been down the pub at lunchtime
    so that excuses me for not reading the note properly) but my diatribe 
    stands aside from the fact that it's fundamentally flawed. A point that 
    springs to mind is that if it had been, say, Man U or someone else then 
    their ground would have been closed for three or four games and
    an English side would probably have been barred from Europe for a long
    time indeed!
    
    

    
>    Milan *have* had their three points deducted for the win over Salzburg
                            ^^^^^
>    but the goal difference still stands. That's my understanding of it
>    anyway.
    
    Ah, but as has been pointed out before a win in the Champions League as
    opposed to virtually all other competitions nowadays will still only
    give you two points.
    
    Maybe the seeded teams get three points for a win. That would make
    some business sense.
    
         cheers,
    
    		Stefan

    Presumably UEFA haven't awarded the points to Salzburg because that
    would make Milan's chances of getting to the latter stages even more
    difficult. As someone said before Milan are the biggest draw and if
    they didn't get to the semi's UEFA would think that the competition
    would be devalued. So this way they keep the dosh and Milan can get to
    the final earning them even more.
    
    Bit of a cop-out really but expected.
    
    Paul
    

    Sorry Stefan, I get so used to thinking in terms of three points now -
    or should I say dreaming about them. How's Roland Nilsson doing back in
    Sweden?
    
    Paul.
    

    Paul
    
    So I was right but got the answer from all the wrong reasons 8-)
    
    Stuart
    

    
>    Sorry Stefan, I get so used to thinking in terms of three points now -
>    or should I say dreaming about them. How's Roland Nilsson doing back in
>    Sweden?
    
    Still outstanding for Sweden in internationals. Apparently equally so
    for his club Helsingborg. Hopefully he'll continue at least over
    England -96 
    
    cheers,
    
    	Stefan

    
    Hey, folks, amongst your replys, there is 1 point I understand, and 
    another one to be explained.
    
    1. Milan has been punished. OK, normal. It could have been even harder.
    
    2. Some noters are surprised to see that Salzburg was not awarded 2
       points. Why ? They were outclassed anyway, and did not deserved the
       points. With or without the hit, Milan would have won. 
    
       I think that the match should have been replayed in a neutral
       stadium. 
    
       PYV  

to 30 : 
...   2.Some noters are surprised to see that Salzburg was not awarded 2
        points. Why ? They were outclassed anyway, and did not deserved the
        points. With or without the hit, Milan would have won. ....

CONTRA: 1:0 for Milan was o.k., till this point both teams played equal.
        2:0 against an injured Goalkeeper
        3:0 against the 2nd keeper
        Salzburg have been shocked after this event

        Therefore a 0:3 in goals in table not ok., a 1:1 without this event
        could be possibly.

	THE UEFA have not to pay 1 million SFR (DM) for any victory in this     
	match.
	

PRO:    Salzburg will not win a new match in Milan - o.k.
        Salzburg's aim is to get the 2nd place (Ajax 1. is sure)
        Now Salzburg's contrahent Milan has 0 points. Salzburg has 1 point
        (but 0:3 is like -1 point).


The judgement is not so bad for Salzburg as we have seen it in the first moment,
but is not intelligible for what has happened. Is a 3:0 o.k., without having
won correctly ?
A new game would be more fair than any 3:0.

Heribert

Heribert

Austria Salzburg and AC Milan have made a protest against the judgement.
The new date to negotiate the result will be 26th of October.

The UEFA has announced, a new match is not possible, because all games must
be played till middle of December.



Today: Austria Salzburg - AJAX Amsterdam

       AEK Athen        - AC Milan


Heribert

    So basically we can forget the match and let the directors negotiate
    the result. Interesting implications when taken to extremes. I can
    just picture it - it's the 3rd round of the FA Cup and Arsenal have
    been drawn away to Wrexham but no sweat we've got the money and paid
    them off, so Graham "Laughing Boy" Kelly announces the result is
    Arsenal win and Wrexham get rich quick. Man U would probably win the
    league every year and football is taken over by the moneymen.
    
    Stuart

    Read some explanation about the decision.
    
    That rule was introduced 2 years ago by Italians (!) after a famous
    problem between Milan and Napoli when Alemao (Napoli) was hit by a coin
    at Sampdoria. Napoli was awarded a 3:0 victory and took the Scudetto.
    
    They introduced the new rule about losing the game but not the goals to
    have a balance.
    
    I believe it is a fair decision. Milan was vastly superior but they
    must be punished because of their fans's behaviour. Done!
    
    /JF

AUSTRIA SALZBURG   -   AJAX AMSTERDAM   0:0

Oh, what a "Dream Team". It was wonderful, to see the technical team
of Ajax, great young players, controlled Rijkard and a fair team.

Of the other side a fighting Salzburg, which had played their best match
this year, good in defense and some dangerous conters. And last, but not 
least the goalie Otto Konrad - Ajax coach van Gaal :" Konrad is a world
class-goalkeeper".
No, this Otto Konrad would not get 3 goals against Milan !!

Fair match, only one yellow card: Blind (Ajax)



AEK ATHEN         -   AC MILAN          0:0

AEK Athen has been the better team .


Who will be the 2nd in this group ? Alle 3 teams have equal chances.
Salzburg could win against Milan in Vienna, to get one point in Athen,
Ajax will win the home-match against Salzburg.


NEWS FROM PROTEST:

Interesting, Milan has protested against the 2 home match 300 KM near Milan,
not the result.
Salzburg's protest is against the goals of 3:0, not the 0 points.
And many people agrees, the event with Konrad has changed the situation,
Konrad is to good to getting 3 goals against Milan of this year.


TABLE


1.	AJAX AMSTERDAM		3 2 1 0 4:1 5
2.	AEK ATHEN		3 0 2 1 1:2 2
3.	AUSTRIA SALZBURG	3 0 2 1 0:3 2
4.	AC MILAN		3 1 1 1 3:2 1


Heribert

    >> No, this Otto Konrad would not get 3 goals against Milan !!
    
    Football is my favourite sport, no doubt, but I hate players (a lot of 
    them are italians, I admit it) which simulate, also because I'm a 
    referee.

    I'm sure tha the bottle hit Konrad, but I'm also sure that he has 
    enlarged the consequences. 
    I do not always like UK football (hit the ball and run) but I have a big 
    respect for those players which are "hard" but not "incorrect".
    Think about rugby players, they are million times better. 

    
    So,in my opinion, Konrad is a good goalkeeper, and a very good actor,
    like your team doctor. UEFA should disqualify them.
    
    Without grudge, we'll take in Salzburg what UEFA stole us.
    

    Pino
    

    Austro-Italian relationships take a turn for the worst. Just sit back
    and enjoy the fireworks.
    
    Paul.

Pino,

Sorry, I don't believe You have nothing learned from events as Heysel-Stadium
and bottle-hits such this one.Hiting a goalkeeper and than calling him
actor ????

Not our team-doctor has made the examines, the doctor of
AC Milan has made it - and the confirmed hurts have been bad enough.

UEFA has not stolen tow points, they have give MILAN a gift of a goal difference
of 3:0. 
Everytime I demanded a new game (the winner will get two points and
the goals he has made correctly).

It is possible ,that Milan will win in Vienna, but it should be on the lawn.

Heribert

    Where will Milan play their remaining home matches in this group ??
    Is Genoa more than 300km from Milan (I don't think so) ??  Therefore
    is it the Fiorentina or Roma ground then ???
    
    Ray

    Team doktor says goalkeep no hurt?  Radio said she fine. (Local)  Be
    out and playing in field tout de suite.
    Our team would have will miss his hands on experienced in gaol.
    
    UEFA did it right this time, but wrong next?
    
    Ant.

    re 38
    
    Heribert,
    
    Heysel was a 'bit' more heavy, I think. Anyway that's only my opinion,
    nothing more.
    
    I apologize If I've offended you. Take into account that
    we are talking about football, like friends in a pub.
    
    I'll offer you a drink if you come to Rome.
    
    re 39
    
    Milan will play next game in Trieste (north-east of Italy)
    
    Pino

Pino,

The only thing, which has been negative in these event: Some people 
have accused Konrad of simulating. But in Austria there exists no known
footballplayer who would be more correct in life and match as Otto Konrad and he
had to pause the next two matches.
 

It is possible, that I will be in Rome next year. I will contact You,
to drink together a beer or Frascati. The same is guilty, if You will visit
Vienna.

Heribert

RE : .40

Is that supposed to be funny ? 

    yes. funny no?

    re:.43
    
    Utd play in Gothenburg in Round 5 NOT Round 6.
    
    Predictions:
    
    Barca V Utd	- Barca
    Gala  V IFK - Gala
    
    IFK   V Utd - Draw
    Gala  V Barca - Draw
    
    Utd   V Gala - Utd
    Barca V IFK  - Barca
    
    Table :
    
    Barca	8 pts
    Utd		7 pts
    IFK		5 pts
    Gala	4 pts
    
    Dave

    
>   Utd play in Gothenburg in Round 5 NOT Round 6.
    
    I stand corrected. Thanks.

    re:-1
    
    No problem.  It seems that Gothenburg have sorted out their defence
    judging by the last 2 Euro games.  At Old Trafford they were very
    threatening going forward but pretty awful in defence.  Is that a fair
    observation or were they made to look ordinary by the superb flowing
    incisive play of the Utd forwards ;-)
    
    Dave

    
    United certainly made the Barcelona defence look pretty ordinary last
    night. Unforunately they did two really good impressions of a crap
    defence themselves (in the 35th and 48th minutes !).
    
    Jerry.

    re .35 Heribert
    
    No,
    
    as a real Ajax-fan I do not agree with 'fighting' team. I was really
    frustrated after last wednesday ; is this football ? Having a home
    match and posting ten players on the 16 metre-line ? And not to mention
    the 12th man of Salzburg, mr Rothlisberger...what an ..@&# ! How is it
    possible that this man may be the referee in the Champions League !
    Hasn't he done enough harm during Ajax-Auxerre two years ago and just
    recently the famous belgian penalty against Germany ?  Giving Blind a
    yellow card because a captain asks for some consideration ? And letting
    all the bad fouls go unpunished ???? I mean it was a terrible game to
    watch, only one team playing. And if there finally came some speed in
    the game Rothi had to blow the whistle.........
    No, I was not impressed by Salzburg, it was after Athens and Milan the
    worst team....in my humble opinion, ofcourse......
    
    John 

John,

I understand You as a fan of this wonderful dream team - AJAX. But I am an
Austrian, Austria Salzburg has been playing as a good fighting team for
my Austrian opinion.

To Your: ...I was really frustrated after last wednesday ; is this football ..

it is lovely, see my entry .8:

...What does this team (AEK) in the Champions League ? ...
...Athen's team has played the most destructive football...

I think, the model of the Champion's league has destroyed good football,
money for each point should not be the best. A return to the old K.O. system
would be better, than a 0:0 in a home match is nothing.

Only "no" to Your entry: I don't agree there have been bad fouls .


Heribert

    Re:
    
>>  I think, the model of the Champion's league has destroyed good football,
    
    
    I presume you didn't see Manchester United .vs. Barcelona then ?
    
    
    Jerry.

    re Heribert
    
    Yes, you are an austrian and if you get a point against a dream team
    you're happy. But I look at the way it happened. i enjoy Ajax because
    they play nice football to watch. And many times they are confronted
    with teams who 'dig' themselves in. Against minor teams like for
    example FC Utrecht ( Ton, this is a joke !) in the dutch league I can
    understand. But if you play in the Champions League....I expect some
    more ! Especially when you play home ! Look at AEK. They played very
    strong against Ajax at home, and Ajax had luck many teams. But it was a
    game nice to watch ! Last wednesday was very bad for the audience. Not
    worth Ajax and I hope the same for Salzburg !
    Ajax isn't the dream team yet. We have a good team but this team hasn't
    got any European fame yet. We have a good chance now, but the average
    age of this team is still very young ; 22 years. They are a dream team
    after one or two years when they received some prices ! For example
    last year they playedf long time very well but got an enormous dip that
    lasted for a month. Unfortunately they played against Parma then....
    Yes, I agree with you that there were not to many fouls. But there were
    made some though, unpunished while Blind got a card for making a remark
    as a captain.....That makes me angry ( the referee was hopeless
    anyway....)
    
    And to come back to your remark about hte Champion's league ; I have to
    agree with Jerry ; there are many interesting games to watch !
    
    John
    

    If I well remember, today UEFA has to judge again for the
    Milan-Salzburg's querelle.
    
    Any news?
    
    Pino

    
    I believe they stuck to their original decision.
    
    JBG

The UEFA has confirmed the first judge.

The speaker of the UEFA (Suisse) had spoken of a "Italian theater" after this
2nd round.
Austria Salzburg delegation has left the round after two hours.

The Italian delegation with 3 star-advocats (one from Berlusconi) have
negotiated till 17:00. (Begin has been 9:00) 

Now, let's play football on the green grass and don't give to much emotion
to the match Salzburg - Milan in Vienna. (both sides)

Heribert

    
    This has got to be one of the most obviously mercinary decisions made
    by UEFA. Let us consider what they were faced with....
    	1. Milan being eliminated at the opening hurdle.
    	2. Immediate loss of revenue for UEFA (read- Berlusconi- note Milan's 
    	games are not on RAI terrestrial TV but on Berlusconi's owned channel)
    	3. Appearing sympathetic to the other small little team from
    	Austria.
    
    So make a decision based on this criterea...
    
    	Salzburg were beaten 3-0 therefore they don't deserve any
    	points and Milan DID score 3 goals...but take a WHOLE 2 points from
    	Milan...now that's being 'nice' to Salzburg.
    
    The decision should have been....IMHO
    	1. Take all revenue from Milan in the league section and plough it 
    into a newly set up fund for the 'needy' football nations in Europe...
    after all Johannson (UEFA) did say after only getting 2 extra World Cup 
    places that the 'rich should give to the poor'
    	..charity begins at home i.e. in UEFA.
    	2. The match is void and should be re-played as a double-header
    	in Vienna when the return match is due (Tuesday-Thursday).
    
    Dezzz.
    
     

Dezz,

Your proposal is very good, for Salzburg , too.

Today AJAX Amsterdam - Austria Salzburg
      AC Milan       - AEK Athen 

I will make no prognoses after Austria's yesterday results in EC .

Heribert

AJAX AMSTERDAM  -  AUSTRIA SALZBURG	1:1 (0:0)

0:1 (63.) Kocijan , 1:1 (85.) Litmanen (85.)

Not the dream team AJAX such as in Vienna 14 days ago, not such as destructive
team SALZBURG as in Vienna.
Salzburg had some chances in the 1st half, Ajax has been a little bit better 
in this time.
In the 2nd halftime Salzburg played very well and in the 63th minute a wonderful
goal of Kocijan has followed.
Now AJAX played very confus, with many wrong passes.
In the 85th minute Salzburg's libero made the only mistake in this game 
- 1:1 .
Because of a bar shot of Rijkard (71.) I think the result would be correct.

0 (!) yellow cards 

Interview with the coach of Ajax: "Salzburg had played much better than
AC Milan in Amsterdam"


AC MILAN      - AEK ATHEN		2:1 (0:1)

0:1 (16.) Savevsky, 1:1,2:1 (68./74.) Panucci


1.	AJAX AMSTERDAM	  4 2 2 0 5:2 6
2.	AC MILAN	  4 2 1 1 5:3 3
3.	AUSTRIA SALZBURG  4 0 3 1 1:4 3
4.	AEK ATHEN	  4 0 2 2 2:4 2

Which team will now come to the quarter final ?

AJAX should be fix qualified.

Now to play:

AC MILAN -       AJAX AMSTERDAM		1 or 2 points for Milan
AEK ATHEN -      AUSTRIA SALZBURG	1 point for Salzburg possible
AJAX AMSTERDAM - AEK ATHEN		2 points for Ajax.if Ajax will play full

Than this would be the final for this group (and this match would have
enormous emotions):

AUSTRIA SALZBURG - AC MILAN in Vienna (7.12.94)

(I hope, the decision will be on the green grass of the Ernst_Happel-Stadium)

Heribert

    re-1
    I told you, Heribert, Ajax is not the dream team (yet). Yesterday was a
    day to despair. You felt from the beginning that they were not at their
    best........
    The missing of Blind was felt, the defense was chaotic by the time. The
    forwards of Salzburg were however never really dangerious except one
    man ; Jurcevic. He and Konrad pulled Salzburg through.
    Ajax was not creative and not eager at all. Everything through the
    middle were Salzburg had posted 6 (!) men......
    The referee was hopeless.....always whistling for the defensing
    side..it wouldn't be strange if he at least had given one penalty (
    twice hands, one case of strong pulling).....
    So we had a game of one team who was not awake, one team that didn't
    dare and a ref who wasn't there.......
    Then the clear goal, I was sitting exactly on the line and saw that the
    header in the fifth minute was behind the line. Konrad smartly pushed
    the ball for the line when Litmanen pushed it back again. And then the
    @$# blows for free kick........
    One great action from Jurcevic in the second half was enough for 0-1 !
    That was the reward for the bad defending of Ajax, during that time.
    After that Ajax finally started to play and suddenly more chances
    appeared. Konrad saved several sure goals untill Jari Litmanen
    equalized.......It could have been more but the time was to short.
    I think Austria deserved this point more as two weeks ago. Ajax was not
    in the right fashion and didn't deserve more.......
    
    John

John

to .61:

A fair and good comment.

Heribert

    
    Did you see the stats for this game?
    
    Gala 17 corners (ish) to Goth (1)...
    
    

>    It's true that Ferguson's suicidal tactics in Barcelona opened up a
>    possibility for IFK to go through on goal diff, but I think that's
>    unlikely. Following a draw in Gothenburg, Utd will have to beat Gala
>    (who have only "pride" to play for) by 2 clear goals (.8 prob) while
>    Barca (who have everything to play for even if they beat Gala) have to
>    beat IFK by one goal (.95 prob) for Utd to sneak 2nd place on goal diff.
	I think you got some of your reasoning (and hence scenarios) wrong.
	In case of 2 teams ending with equal number of points, it will be
	the goal-average from their 2 games that breaks the tie, not the
	overall goal-average. In the case of IFK and United, it's like +2
	to United at the moment.
	If IFK win their next game, all is well for them, otherwise they
	look like being in a much less favorable position, all this assuming
	they get nothing out of Barcelona... and Manu scoring 3 or 4 points
	from their last 2 games...

	Now with what the Manu central defense has shown recently, one never
	knows, you could even give them a second (consecutive) European
	trashing :-)

								.Andre.

    
>	I think you got some of your reasoning (and hence scenarios) wrong.
>	In case of 2 teams ending with equal number of points, it will be
>	the goal-average from their 2 games that breaks the tie, not the
>	overall goal-average. In the case of IFK and United, it's like +2
>	to United at the moment.
    
    Andre,
    
    Are you sure? I thought over-all goal diff came first. Anyway, if what
    you're saying is true it emphasises what I was trying to say. IFK need
    to win over Utd.
    
>	Now with what the Manu central defense has shown recently, one never
>	knows, you could even give them a second (consecutive) European
>	trashing :-)
    
    We'll see.
    
    	cheers,
    
    		Stefan

Last Friday the UEFA decided, to give Milan the premium for the "victory"
against Salzburg.
Now Milan has a 3:0* without a point and the premium - typical decision of 
the UEFA !

* By same points of two teams in the table, do not decide the complete 
goal difference, the goals in the directly confrontation of the
two teams will decide. 

If Salzburg and Milan have the same points in finish, Salzburg is out -
they cannot win 4:0 against Milan.

Heribert 

Tomorrow:

AEK ATHEN  _  AUSTRIA SALZBURG

Salzburg has many problems with injured players: best forward Jurcevic,
Feiersinger, a.s.o.
Therefore they will play for the next 0:0 in this year, it will be no
match for a spectator.
But I think, it will be a hard match, Athen plays in a good form.

Extraordinary premium for Salzburg: If they will come to the quarter
final of the Champions League ,Salzburg will buy Toni Polster , the best
Austrian forward. (now FC Koeln, but with problems with the new contract).

Heribert 

The possible way for Salzburg to the quarter final.


AC MILAN     AEK ATHEN		 SALZBURG v MILAN
    v.           v.				
AJAX	     AUST.SALZBURG		
 
2		2			X	Salzburg in 1/4 final
X		2			X
2		X			X
-----------------------------------------------
X		X		Salzburg has to win
1		X		        "
X		1			"
1		2			"
2		1			"
------------------------------------------------
1		1		 Salzburg  out before the match ag. Milan

Heribert

    Heribert - it is too late in the evening for me to even guess what
    your table means.   However I do admire your dedication to Salzburg.
    
    Allez Ajax is all I can say ..
    
    Ray

    This evening we'll play our match of the year, so I say
    
    	F O R Z A  M I L A N
    
    Pino

Ray,

the table means (such as TOTO)

1 win for home team
2 win for guests
X "remis"


Example:

AC MILAN     AEK ATHEN		 SALZBURG v MILAN
    v.           v.				
AJAX	     AUST.SALZBURG		
 
2		2			X	Salzburg in 1/4 final

If Ajax will win ag.Milan, Salzburg will win in Athen, 
for Salzburg a 0:0,1:1,2:2,aso. will be enough against Milan to play in the 
1/4 final.

In all these prognosis:
1. Ajax

Heribert 

    Good

    Milan 0  Aiax 2  Litmanen,Baresi(a)
    
    What can I say? Aiax deserved to win. 
    
    All will be decided in Vienna.
    
    Let's go Milan
    
    Pino

    
    So Heribert, finally a result to really cheer about!
    
    AEK Athens  1 : 3  Austria Salzburg
    
    JBG

    Ajax did it !
    What a game, what an excitement. You even didn't get the time to turn
    on the TV when Litmanen scored ! It made me fear the worst....Ajax lets
    Milan come and looses in the end.....But no, thet got better and better
    and stayed the strongest team ! A pity for Baresi that he had to be the
    one who finally sentenced Milan....he who was working so hard.
    Ajax could have easily made 3 or 4 goals but this was enough. And how
    great was the end were Ajax and Milan supporters shouted hand in hand
    for Rijkaard !
    What a night ! I hope they are still motivated to play Athens next time
    and then Hajduk Split. I hope they are in the same shape, then....
    
    John

AEK ATHEN   -   AUSTRIA  SALZBURG  1:3 (1:2)

What a match of Salzburg. The known deffensive team had to play without their
best forward Jurcevic and in the middle without Aigner.
In the first 10 minutes Salzburg had 5 goalshots and two goals.

0:1 Wonderful goal of Pfeiffenberger (7. min)
0:2       -"-                        (9. min), both with head
1:2 The first great mistake of Otto Konrad in the Champions League(40.min)

In the second halftime many attacks of Salzburg. Terrible referee, a correct
goal of Hasenhuettl (Salzburg,50.) not given. A foul of Salzburg's player
against AEK - this penalty (no discussion) not given.

At this time (Milan - Ajax 0:2) for Salzburg was not important to win or to play
remis, because the situation for the last games had been the same.

1:3 Hasenhuettl (80.)

No second yellow card for any player of Salzburg. 
Salzburg will come to the quarter final, if they don'l loose last match.


1. AJAX AMSTERDAM	5 3 2 0 7:2 8
2. AUSTRIA SALZBURG	5 1 3 1 4:5 5		
3. AC MILAN	  	5 2 1 2 5:5 3
4. AEK ATHEN	   	5 0 2 3 3:7 2

 
Salzburg is in the quarter final, if they will not loose the match against
Milan in Vienna.
The traditional 0:0 of Salzburg would be enough.
The great chance of Salzburg to come to the next round.

My personal classifiction of Salzburg's matches:

1. AEK ATHEN - SALZBURG   1:3	best match in offensive
2. AJAX - SALZBURG	  1:1	clever match

3. SALZBURG - AJAX	  0:0	brave, but no good match of Salzburg
4. SALZBURG - ATHEN	  0:0	terrible match of both sides

5. MILAN - SALZBURG	  3:0 	*till the events of the 40t minute brave, 
				later no classification.

At home:   2 matches, 2 points  0:0
not at h.; 3 matches. 3 points  4:5 (with Milan's 0:3)

That means, Salzburg is a good team in conter , with problems to make theyr
own game.

Now I hope of a good result in the lat match SALZBURG - MILAN

Heribert

	 
  

Tomorrow the decision:

Austria Salzburg - AC Milan

I am a a little bit nervous, because Milan has lost often. A team such as
Milan has the class to come back to their known strength - but I hope, this
would not be in this match.

Latest news: 

MILAN: Costa curta has to pause (WC final)

SALZBURG: The forwards Jurcevic and Pfeiffenberger are now fit.


My dream:  all other results as to loose.

Most of the Austrian people will watch this match on TV, it is not daily
for Austria to have the chance to eleminate AC Milan.

Heribert

    AC MILAN:
    
        		ROSSI
    
    PANUCCI	GALLI		BARESI		MALDINI
    
    MASSARO	DESAILLY	ALBERTINI	DONADONI
    
    		SAVICEVIC 	SIMONE
    
    I'm optimist.
    
    Heribert, see you next monday (holiday + vacation)
    
    Pino

The Milan team looks a bit lop-sided to me. Isn't Panucci really a left-back?
And Massaro at right-midfield?  Seems the Capello likes playing forwards
in this position :-).

Never liked Massaro as a player except when upfront he will score goals.  Is
this a case of Simone having one of those bizarre contracts which means he
always starts European matches?

    
    Since I could only find notes for Groups I and II of the Champions
    league, I decided to just put all of last nights results and the final
    tables together in here.
    
    Jerry.
    
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    
European Cup, Champion's League:
    
                                Group A
                   Manchester U. 4     Galatasaray 0 
                   Barcelona 1         IFK Gothenburg 1

      IFK Gothenburg         6  4  1  1 10  7    9
      Barcelona              6  2  2  2 11  8    6
      Manchester U.          6  2  2  2 11 11    6
      Galatasaray            6  1  1  4  3  9    3        
        

                                Group B
                   Dynamo Kiev 1 Bayern Munich 4
                   Paris St Germain 4  Spartak Moscow 1
                   
                             P  W  D  L  F  A  Pts
      Paris St. Germain      6  6  0  0 12  3   12
      Bayern Munich          6  2  2  2  8  7    6
      Spartak Moscow         6  1  2  3  8 12    4
      Dynamo Kiev            6  1  0  5  5 11    2
      

                                Group C
                   Anderlecht 1        Benfica 1
                   Hadjuk Split 1      Steaua Bucharest 4
                   
                             P  W  D  L  F  A  Pts
      Benfica                6  3  3  0  9  4    9
      Hajduk Split           6  2  2  2  4  7    6
      Steaua Bucharest       6  1  3  2  6  5    5
      Anderlecht             6  0  4  2  4  7    4
      

                                Group D
                   Casino Salzburg 0   AC Milan 1
                   Ajax Amsterdam 2    Aek Athens 0

                             P  W  D  L  F  A  Pts
      Ajax Amsterdam         6  4  2  0  9  2   10          
      AC Milan*              6  3  1  2  3  5    5          
      Austria Salzburg       6  1  3  2  4  6    5
      AEK Athens             6  0  2  4  3  9    2          

      * Milan have two pts deducted by order of UEFA,
        although 3-0 win over Salzburg remains unaltered.


Quater Final Draw - to be played on March 1 and March 15:
    
                   Bayern Munich   v   IFK Gothenburg 
                   Hadjuk Split    v   Ajax Amsterdam 
                   AC Milan        v   Benfica 
                   Barcelona       v   Paris St Germain 

    BTW,
    
    Bad luck last night Heribert. From what I saw you were unlucky not to
    get a least a draw. We (ManU) will meet you in the final next year ;-) 
    
    
    Jerry.

    Does anyone know if ITV or SKY are showing the some of the remaining
    matches up to the final? Or does their interest stop once the British
    clubs are out?
    
    Barca v PSG  looks like one to watch.
    
    Paul.
    

    Paul
    
    ITV had the contract for the Champions League. Whether that extends to
    the remainder of the Competition is debatable. If it does, expect to
    see highlights of the matches with only the final being live if it is
    between Barca/Goteborg and someone else. After all, they have to make
    reference to the conquerors of Englands champions. Don't they?
    
    Stuart
    

    Ajax _ AEK Athene  2-0 !
    
    From the beginning was Ajax the stronger side. A lot of chances, only
    two goals of Oulida. You could see that Ajax was not top-motivated, had
    only the sense to win.
    We all got a Ajax-flag before the game as compensation for the extra
    security. Ajax had been warned by the UEFA, because last game against
    Salzburg firework almost hit the hopeless linesman......
    Oulida made the two goals, what an entrance for this youngster, mostly
    playing for the second team.
    Next game will be against Hajduk. I hope they don't miss the chances as
    yesterday..... But if Ajax can keep up this form, we have a good chance
    to reach the semi-finals. Problem is that the program of Ajax is
    heavier then any other club in Holland. To keep up the national
    competition we have to play a lot of games during
    winterstop...ridiculous......See what happens !
    
    John

>>>But if Ajax can keep up this form, we have a good chance
>>>to reach the semi-finals.

This is a remarkably tame ambition for what looks like the best team in the comp
by a street.

Mike

    re -1
    
    I think Paris St Germain may wish to dispute the claim for being best
    team 
    
    Stuart

to 83.

Jerry, thank You for  Your consoling words (unlucky)

Yesterday an English newspaper made AC Milan the "team of the year".( I would
say the first half of this year till the Barcelona - match - o.k.)

I am not so sad of at Salzburg's loosing than at the fact, that the great
clubs with a lot of money are not to defeat .

Let me declare, what I mean with this.

1. The two "little" clubs AEK Athen and Austria Salzburg were given in a 
group with the Nr.1 MILAN  and (!) the Nr.2 AJAX .
Ajax Amsterdam played great matches and have been the best team (Congratulation
to Ajax)

2. Now Austria Salzburg surprised the men of the UEFA. Than the scandalous
bottle-hit in Milan : the decision, 0 points, 0:3 for Salzburg as victim !!

The great and famous clubs should come to quarter final. I have seen the
match of Bayern - after the 1:0 of Kiew the ref. has given Bayern a lot of time
without reason (48. min: 1:1 - that has been the decision)

3. After the results of Salzburg 1:1,0:0 ag. Ajax
                                 3:1,0:0 ag. Athen
4. The 3:0 of the first Milan match should be insignificant,because
Salzburg - and not Milan was standing before the quarter final.

Now teh UEFA nominated ref. Craciunescu - to give Milan one gift after the
other. Only the linesman of the right side has not playing the same , he
showed two clear offside goals of Milan.

The freekick before the 1:0 for Milan has been a forward-foul. 
In the second halftime only one team has been playing football (Salzburg), 
all attacks should be offside (in 4 cases not any offsides have been seen), 

Brutal fouls , such as that of Savicevic in the 50th minute (in normal case:
red- he had one yellow, but the referee had seen nothing, the only one), aso.


Why has Salzburg lost the match :

1. Goalkeeper Otto Konrad made his 2nmd mistake this year - a gift for Milan
(1:0)

2. 50 seconds after beginning ,Jurcevic "must" make the 1:0 (all has been 
decided), but luck and a great Rossi have prevented this.

3. The team of Salzburg had enormous problems with nerves after the 0:1.

4. Craciunescu 

5. Salzburg's forwards cannot make a goal at home (0:0 Ajax, 0:0 Athen, 
0:1 Milan) - therfore all had hoped of a new match in Italy adter the bottle hit
(1:1 in AMsterdam, 3:1 in Athen)
 

I am proud of Salzburg, a team with 1,8 millions Dollar budget (!!) in the
year has been playing in UEFA cup final this year, and has demanded the
team of the year.

Pino, You can be proud of Milan a lot of time this year, I admired Milan 
in the final against Barcelona and I have been a fan of Gullit, Van Basten
and Baresi.
But in the Champions League they had more than luck, but I will not lament
- this is football.

Heribert

 

    Milan AC 2 - 0 PSG
    AFC Ajax 5 - 2 Bayern Munich
    
    Paris were outclassed really and were given no space at all to play in.
    The Milan midfield closed everything down, chased every ball, marked
    really tightly and controlled the match. Their Russian striker, I've
    forgotten his name, score twice.
    
    The other match ! What a game. Goals everywhere and the Dutch children
    put Amsterdam in their first European cup final in 22 years. And 22 is 
    the average age of the team. You must watch them play. Total football
    is back.
    
    The final should be great. The exuberance of youth against experience.
    

    anyone know where and when the final is ?
    
    thanks
    D

EC Final is in Vienna on 24th May.
Cup-Winner's Cup is in Paris on the 10th May.

MIlan scorer was Savijevic (sp) but I don't think he'd like to be called
'Russian'.  I think he's actually Croatian.  Croatia/Portugal are my tips
for winning Euro'96.

Now we see the final AJAX - MILAN in Vienna. The group with Salzburg
has been the strongest group.

People of Austria have seen both teams for two times in Vienna.

We have seen the most sympatical team AJAX in Vienna and AC Milan - this team
has acted against Salzburg with dirty methods (supporters,trainer and chairman -
NOT the players) to eliminate Salzburg.
Salzburgs games ag. AJAX:  0:0 in Vienna, 1:1 in Amsterdam.

Therefore I think the 7000 Austrian spectators (who have gotten tickets)
will support the team of AJAX with fair methods (applause).

Goodie for Milan: The team played much better in the 1/4 and 1/2 final than
in qualifying group.


Heribert 

>MIlan scorer was Savijevic (sp) but I don't think he'd like to be called
>'Russian'.  I think he's actually Croatian.  Croatia/Portugal are my tips
>for winning Euro'96.

 He's from Montenegro so he doen't play for Croatia