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Conference rusure::math

Title:Mathematics at DEC
Moderator:RUSURE::EDP
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2083
Total number of notes:14613

1916.0. "Weak Axiom of Choice (WAC)" by EVTSG8::ESANU (Au temps pour moi) Mon Dec 12 1994 14:01

Everyone knows the  Axiom of Choice  (AC)  and the discussions about the
legitimacy of using it:


(AC) A direct product of non-empty sets is non-empty.


The difficulty is to name (build) an element of the direct product in this
case.

What about the following weak form (called  Weak Axiom of Choice )?


(WAC) Consider a non-empty set. Then we can choose an element of this set.


Should we feel free to use it? (We actually do).

Evident difficulties in naming (building) an element arise in measure-based
sets (e.g. of the "almost everywhere" type). Can you think about other
examples?

And, as a matter of fact, is this extreme skepticism justified?

Mihai.
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1916.1Function Spaces?EVMS::HALLYBFish have no concept of fireMon Dec 12 1994 16:416
> Evident difficulties in naming (building) an element arise in measure-based
> sets (e.g. of the "almost everywhere" type). Can you think about other
> examples?
    
    Say "the set of all everywhere-continuous, nowhere-differentiable 
    	functions from R onto R".
1916.2AC=>my C program correct?MOVIES::HANCOCKMon Dec 12 1994 20:0326
  (AC) A direct product of non-empty sets is non-empty.

More exactly, the direct product of a `small' family of non-empty sets
(indexed by a set) is non-empty. 

  (WAC) Consider a non-empty set. Then we can choose an element of this set.

I looked in "Sets: an introduction" by Michael Potter, and where the axiom
of choice is defined to say that every set has a choice function: a function
f defined on its non-empty elements whose value at such an argument is
an element of the argument.  He proves this equivalent to the axiom above.
The only other plausible interpretation of WAC is what Potter calls the
axiom of global choice, which asserts that there's one choice function
which does for all sets, which isn't weak!

   Should we feel free to use it? (We actually do).   

We should.  Arguments which make *essential* use of it are found only 
in the most abstract parts of mathematics.  

Hank

PS: Potter's book is by Oxford Science Publications, 1990.  It's good.
(Great historical bits.)  All 10 zillion equivalents of AC in various
branches of mathematics are mentioned.
1916.3CSC32::D_DERAMODan D'Eramo, Customer Support CenterTue Dec 13 1994 00:2128
        re .0,
        
>(AC) A direct product of non-empty sets is non-empty.
>
>(WAC) Consider a non-empty set. Then we can choose an element of this set.
        
        The second "falls out" of the first order logic in which set
        theory is usually embedded.  There are many "equivalent"
        formulations of first order logic.  One may have a symbol
        upside-down E for "there exists" and another may have only the
        upside-down A for "for all" and use (Ex)(F(x)) as an
        abbreviation for ~((Ax)(~F(x))).  One may have the "constant
        introduction rule" that if in a proof you have derived
        (Ex)(F(x)), then you can introduce a constant symbol b not yet
        used in the proof and add F(b) to your proof.  In other
        formulations this rule is just a convenience, and "unofficial
        proofs" which use it and be mechanically transformed into
        "official proofs" which don't.  In either case, if a is shown
        to be a non-empty set then you can show (Ex)(x \in a) where \in
        represents the Greek letter epsilong used to denote "is an
        element of".  Then "constant introduction" lets you formally
        or informally invent a new constant symbol b such that b \in a
        and you can use b in your proof.  If your end result doesn't
        mention b, then even in the informal case, you can still
        transform the unofficial proof using b to an official proof of
        your end result.
        
        Dan
1916.4EVTSG8::ESANUAu temps pour moiThu Dec 15 1994 09:1426
1916.5WRKSYS::ROTHGeometry is the real life!Thu Dec 15 1994 20:0322