Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

  By introduction, my name is Kenn.  I am a divorcee who has since remarried.  
I have been divorced from my ex for 9 years and have been happily re-married 
for 7 years.  I have 3 wonderful daughters, two whom are by my first marriage 
and one by my present wife.   My two oldest daughters live with their mother
in Illinois and I currently reside in Colorado.  They range from 14, 11, and
3.

Unfortunately, I have had several dealings with the judicial system regarding
my rights as a father which I feel are totally unfair.  The laws reagrding
non-custodial parents are getting worse every year and it's about time
we stood up and be counted.  Non-custodial parents include BOTH men and 
women, even though the courts lean more toward the maternal side.

I have written letters to senators, congressmen, state and local 
representatives but they don't listen until they go though a divorce
involving children, then THEY want to jump on the band wagon.  I'm know 
for a fact there are hundreds of us within Digital faced with being a
non-custodial parent so let's vent some frustration and start noting!!!

Kenn

    My name is Tom.  I've been divorced for 2 years now and have 2
    children, a 10 year old son who lives with his mother and a 3 year old
    daughter who lives with me.  I do have full custody of my daughter but
    still have to pay child support to my ex for our son.  I also feel it
    is unfair that I have to pay to send my daughter to New york 3 times a
    year to visit her mother.  I feel that since my ex was the one who
    decided to move to New York that she should have to foot the travel
    expenses.  Unfortunately the judge didn't see it that way.  He totally
    didregarded the fact that my ex left us and gave her everything she
    wanted, child support, travel expenses, visitation rights...
    
    Our justice system still looks out for the mother no matter what kind
    of person she is and with total disregard to the effects on the
    children who are forced to live in a strange house with a person, my
    ex, who is a stranger.  My daughter's child psychologist told the judge
    that taking my daughter away from me for more than 2 weeks could be
    very harmful.  It can be as tramatic as a death.  I have been her sole
    parent for 2 years now and to send her away, and even make me pay for
    it is very unfair.
    
    Where is the justice in my situation?  When a judge disregards the law
    and the well being of the children I think its time to revise our
    justice system.
    
    Tom Parmelee
    Co-moderator

    
    I'm Bob McQueeney, another Co-moderator of this conference.  Seperated
    for over a year now, divorce pending but currently in limbo.  The
    ex- has custody of our two small children since the seperation started.
    Being in such a position, I too have noticed that the laws are far
    more in favour of the mother for numerous reasons, and I wanted
    to get on the aforementioned "bandwagon" by stating that I feel
    this is totally unfair to the father, who (at least in my case)
    should have as much right to custody.  I am looking forward to some
    rousing discussions here regarding these topics.
    
    	McQ
    

    My name is Pat Pederson. My husband has a daughter from
    a previous marriage.I can sure sympathize with the replies
    entered here...we have had some major problems with visitation
    rights. We just moved to AZ from NH last year.
    
    **And after 5 years, we finally got to see her during Xmas vaca!!**
    
    She had run away from her mother and stayed w/ her maternal grandmother
    and DEMANDED that she be able to see her father. The last time
    we saw her she was 10, she's now 15 (a lot of growing up between
    10 and 15 :-)  ). We now talk regularly on the phone.
    
    Glad to have others here for support!!
    
    pat :-)
    
    
    p.s. Moderators, is it ok to discuss the actual situations, the
    frustrations in dealing with the custodial parent?

    Hi Pat,
    
      Yes, you can talk about the actual situation just exclude names or
    change them.  That would include names of lawyers, judges, etc.
    
    Go ahead and vent your frustration.
    
    Tom

  Pat,

   Welcome to the conference.  It's great having "the second wife" involved.
My wife feels the same way.  We have had some very frustrating experiences
with my oldest daughter who cares more for her step mother (my wife) than
her own mother.  

Thanks for joining us and spread the word!!!

    My name is John.  I've been divorced for less than a year, but non-the-
    less, I count my blessings.  I guess my case is a lot different than
    most.  I have six great children (yes, that's right 6!) and my
    relationship with them is far better than I ever imagined it would be.
    
    My ex left me about a year ago, moved to another state (a 6 hour
    drive), filed for divorce, had the pre-trial (what a joke!), the trial,
    the courts garnish my wages to give to her (by Ohio law... no choice!)
    and she re-marries.  All within 4 months!  WHAM! 
    
    I thought my life had come to an end.  After a while, I decided I could
    either get bitter about something I couldn't change or I could make the
    best of it and move forward.  It hasn't been easy, but I'm a much
    different person now.  In general, I am happier now than I have been in
    a long time. 
    
    I don't have much (the vast majority of my pay goes to child support,
    taxes, marital debt and medical responsibilities), but I guess I had to
    learn and realize that money isn't everything; and it's not.  What I do
    have is a much more balanced life, a good relationship with my kids,
    many new friends and a job that is an absolute turn-on (VAX performance
    for a bunch of 8700 class machines). I just started dating again and
    with that, my friends have seen to it to have me fixed up left and
    right.  How long will it last? Who cares?  I'm having some fun for the
    first time in a long time. 
    
    I just finished reading the stuff in note 7 on taxes and absolutely
    cringe!  She will sign the papers for the agreed to exemptions,
    but I won't really rest until I have them in my hands.
    
    Justice?  There isn't much. I have to agree with what I've read so far,
    the justice system stinks up a rope.  I really dislike the fact that
    because of a few men who don't pay child support, Ohio law mandates a
    garnishment and then charges me a fee on top of that to send her the
    check! 
    
    I won't be able to respond to this conference very much (due to time),
    but I'm glad that a few people decided it was worthwhile.  I look
    forward to reading more of this in the future.  It's come along
    at a good time.
    
    			   John Eerenberg

    I am sure I will be in the minority in the conference but I am reading
    the replies and topics with great interest since I am both a product
    of a divorce and have been divorced myself.
    
    I am Sue Nordell and lived with my mother in the dark ages when
    fathers were not even considered in the custody court.  My bitter
    mother kept my father away from us (I have one sister) so after
    trying many times, he gave up and I don't have any contact or know
    his wereabouts.  Because of this experience, I take special care
    to make sure my daughter knows and loves her father as much as
    possible.  When we divorced, he lived about 15 minutes away and
    she saw him two nights a week and every other weekend, but he was
    offered a promotion and move to Canada, which he agonized over for
    months (he is remarried and his new wife was anxious to move away)
    because of his relationship with our daughter.  He has been in Canada
    for three years now and sees her whenever he has a business trip
    to this area, long holidays from school and all summer and calls
    several times a week.
    
    I think the child benefits from having both parents involved in
    her life and since we divorced each other and not her there is no
    reason she should not be primary in whatever decisions are made.
    I am determined that she will know and love her father (just as
    he is determined to be involved in her life) because of my childhood
    experiences.
    
    So, for what it's worth, I'm on both sides.  If I were the
    non-custodial parent I would have a really tough time.  There isn't
    anything either one of us would do for our daughter and keeping
    this thought uppermost in our minds has made the split easier on
    her.
    

Sue,

  I think you have one of the best attitudes I've seen regarding 
children and both sides.  I wish more individuals like yourself 
would see it from both sides because in reality, the parents may
lose in monetary value, but it's actually the children who suffer
the most.  I, like yourself come from a very bitter family breakup.

Thanks and welcome...

Kenn

    Robin Wiley, male, 38, parent, divorced about 9 years ago, remarried
    about 7 years ago.
    
    My 13 year old son lives with his mother, her new husband of 10 years,
    and his new half-brothers.  I see him 1 or 2 nights a week for Karate
    training, and on alternate weekends.
    
    My wife has three sons, aged 18, 12 and 10 from her previous marriage. 
    Her ex-husband has re-married, and now has a step-son and a
    step-daughter.  He sees his boys (my stepsons) about once a week, and
    on alternate weekends.
    
    My wife is a  Child Psychologist, and her ex-husband is a matrimonial
    lawyer who specialises in separate representation for children. 
    Needless to say, we have a wealth of information and experience in
    these areas!
    
    The downside to this is that my input to this conference is not going
    to be very relevant, as I live and work @ADO, Adelaide, South
    Australia.  However, I will watch this conference with interest and
    contribute what I can.
    
    - Robin.

    Hi,
    
    My name is Kim Renda, and I am a custodial step-parent.  I also
    belong to the Stepparents Conference and am really excited to
    have this conference for advise also.
    
    My husbands 15 year old son lives with us and has for 3 years and
    as the previous notes represent a certain unfairness in the courts
    so does our situation.  My huband and his ex-wife make the same
    amount of money and when she had custody he had to pay $100. per
    week child support and now that we have custody she does not have
    to pay us!!!!
    
    Here's hoping that all this awareness will bring about some positive
    steps toward a more fair and equitable probate system!!!
    
    Kim 
   

    OK, I'll be the first - the only? - non-custodial mother to sign in. 
    I'm sure the detail of my story will come out in appropriate strings.
    
    My name is Karen Godin.  I've been divorced for nine years.   My two 
    children, both teenagers now, have lived with their father since the 
    separation.  I see them frequently (at least weekly, until my daughter 
    left for college this fall), but not as frequently as I did when I 
    lived onnly four blocksfrom their home.
    
    Their father and I have joint custody, a legal term for which I've
    never understood what it grants when one parent has physical custody,
    yet the other is a "joint custodian."  I certainly don't see much
    difference in my situation in comparison to others who have no custody
    but do have visitation - and child support payment - rights.
    
    Both my ex and I have remarried, so step-parents and families enter
    into the ultimate equation.
    
    I'm very aware of my somewhat unique status as a non-custodial mother,
    and as such tend to get a bit defensive when people automatically
    assume the father is the only one who could possibly be paying child
    support.  I promise to berate each and ever one of you who leaves that
    possibility out of your entries in this file.  My purpose for adding
    this to my notebook is to (1) learn and (2) share experiences and
    recommendations for bringing reason and fairness to the child custody
    scene, regardless of whether mother or father has physical custody.
    
    Regards,
    Karen
                                              

	Welcome Kim and Karen!!!  We'll be looking forward to your
	participation.

	As both of you have stated, there is unfairness out in the
	real world and it will take alot of pressure to get things
	going, but if everyone starts pitching in, then ALL of us
	will be heard!!

	I'm a member of F.A.I.R. (Fathers Advocacy and Information
	Referral) a national fathers organization.  1 out of every
	5 members are women who are non-custodial parents or women 
	who want to see fairness in the Judicial systems.  We also
	have grandparents who are members also, so this subject covers
	a wide range of people.

	Once again, thanks for joining us and WELCOME!!!!

	Kenn

    Hi Y'all....
    
    My name is Tony Bean.  I now live in Concord, Mass. with my new wife
    (of just 7 months) and her youngest daughter, age 19.  
    
    My divorce took place in 1988, in Texas, where I'd lived since 1968. 
    My ex has custody of all our minor children: Dana (19), Kami (14), and
    Nicholas (11).  Patrick (21) also lives there.
    
    Our divorce was a LONG time comeing.  In fact, we were divorced once
    before and remarried.  My ex is an extremely vindictive and bitter
    woman, and while we, too, have "joint custodianshop", and I am supposed
    to have "equal" access, I have been unable to see my kids in nearly a
    year.  The reason for that is the distance I now live from them.  But,
    I call every week and write often...trying to stay in their lives.
    
    I have learned (not surprized) that my ex is surely turning the kids
    against me.  There seems no defense against it.   I'll be visiting them
    later this month, and hope I can rectify some of the damage.
    
    I have a lot of questions that I hope can be answered in this
    conference.  I am especially appreciative of Kenn and others in setting
    it up and providing us this forum to exchange ideas and support one
    another.
    
    I am 49 and work in Bedford.
    
    see ya!
    
    tony

    
    Hi, I'm Allison Szklarz, and I'm a non-custodial Aunt.  Yes I am not
    a parent, but my life has been greatly affected by my brothers divorce.
    
    When married, my brother, his wife and son, lived in the same town and 
    I spent a minimum of 2 weeknights and one weekend day caring for my
    nephew.  The reason being both parents were working and I had the time.
    Needless to say I have a very stong realationship with my nephew.  
    
    But when my brothers wife left, she moved to VT. and now I get very
    little time to see my nephew, especally since my brother only has him
    every other weekend, and I don;t like to interfere with his time.  
    My ex-sister-in-law has been nasty to brother, and sicky sweet to
    me in person, but not otherwise.   She has not let speak with my nephew
    on several occasions when I called, and I know of at least 2 instances
    where she did not give him the mail we sent.  And there's so much
    more... but enough of the saga.
    
    I'm here to learn, to gain advice and knowledge that I can share with
    my brother (a non-DECie).  Since I'm not a parent, I won't have a lot
    to contribute, but I know that I will have plenty to learn.
    
    

    And the next one...
    
    I'm Dave Nash, based in England.
    
    I was married in 1979, divorced in 1986 , remarried in 1989. There
    are 2 children from the first marriage, Chris and Vicki born in
    1982 and 1984 respectively. 
    I now have an 18 year old step-daughter. My wifes ex is probably
    my best friend right now. How's that for a mature attitude, on his
    part!
    
    I'm not proud of what happened when my ex and I split, but I could
    not live with her anymore. In reparation, I can't see my children
    without agreeing to bizarre conditions.
    
    I can empathise with an awful lot of comments so far.
    There'll be more from me as time goes by. What I'm hoping to gain
    from this conference can only be obtained from people with similar
    experiences. There's no way you can tell someone what's it's like.
    
    Dave

    Hi-ya all,
    
      My name is Ron Boyan, age 37, and I am (so what's new) also the
    Non-Custodial Father of two boys; Nathan aged 8 and Rory, aged 6.
    
      My divorce occured three years ago today. My story is little different
    from any other here, so I'll not go into it. I'm sure it will come out
    over time in other topics.
    
      As several here know, I am attempting to "do something" about the 
    problems which brought us all together in this conference.

    Hi all. I'm the noncustodial parent of a 15 yr old girl and a 13 yr old
    boy. My name is Phil Connell and I work at NQO in Nashua. I expect to
    be mostly a read only noter in here for a while. My situation is
    different from most of you. I think I have it fairly easy. My support
    payments are low $75.00/wk for the two of them. No alimony. My work
    covers most of the insurance expenses. The biggest single expense I
    have had yet is to pay for half of my daughter's class trip to Europe
    next month. My visitation rights are extremely liberal. Anytime I feel
    like dropping by, I can. I just call and they can come over, holidays
    are not a problem either. We just work it out together. 
    
    My biggest problem is that now that my kids are getting older they
    don't want to come over as much. Of course, they want to be with their
    friends and if daddy can't spend a lot of money on them they would
    rather stay home. If that is my only problem then I feel immensly
    lucky. 
    
    I'll close now and if I see something or at least offer moral support
    to others in here then I'll write something.
    
                             Phil

    Hi,
    
    My name is Fred Haddock.  I work with Ken at CX03 in Colorado Springs.
    I am a divorced father of 4.  Two of which live in Minnesota with
    my ex and the oldest two, boy 16 and girl 15, now live with my
    current wife of 5 years and me.  The son was sent to me because
    my ex could no longer control him.  The daugher last summer chose
    to stand up to her mother and stay with us.  I have fairly regular
    contact and visitation with the other two only because I have
    stood up and fought for it.  Last summer my ex was held in contempt
    of court for violation of visitation and had to serve one day in
    jail with 29 days 'defered' (she will have to serve those days 
    if there are any further violations plus any furhter penalties).
    
    The divorce itself took place about 7 years ago and was long and 
    extremely bitter.  I've fought judges and camaigned to get them
    thrown from office, I've fought judges in dicimplinary commissions,
    and I've fought lawyers in diciplinary commissions.  I've picketed
    court houses with father's rights groups and helped with political
    campaigns.
    
    I consider this also a CHILDREN'S RIGHTS issue, the right to see
    and know their non-custodial parent, as well as a parent's rights
    issue.
    
    I am not a lawyer.  Nothing that I enter in this notes file is to
    be considered legal council.  Only my own openion and experience.
    
    still standing,
    fred();

       Hi,

            My name is Richard Gray.  I'm 43 years old and in the
       process of ending a 15 1/2 year marriage.  I have a 13 year old
       son from this marriage and a 20 year old daughter from a previous
       marriage.  I have my son every Thursday night/Friday morning and
       every other weekend from Friday to Monday morning.

            I filed for divorce in October of 1988 and my final
       hearing is scheduled for next week. All the time in the middle
       has been spent fighting over everything under the sun including
       custody.  I originally requested physical custody.  The guardian
       ad litem recommended that my soon_to_be_ex have physical custody
       (what's new in NH) and we share joint legal custody.  My
       soon_to_be_ex is fighting for sole legal and physical custody
       with my son as her weapon of choice.

            I will be reading and occasionally commenting, trying to
       find effective ways to (1) keep my son from feeling like a pawn,
       (2) help him get back onto the honor roll at school (3) figure
       out what to do with dinner and my anger when she calls up at
       6:00 PM to tell me, she isn't done skiing and she won't have him
       back for my visitation until tomorrow.


       Richard

    
    Gene Salois
    Non-custodial father...
    

    
    Hi,
    
    Paul Cutting. Divorced oh, about three years now. Non-custodial
    father of two girls ages 8 and 10.  Recently remarried to a non-
    custodial mother of a three yr old boy. 
    
    I'll save the 'events' of the last three years for other topics.
    There are enough of them.......
    

      Typical profile, divorced march of 1988, father of two - a son (12)
    and a daughter (5). Can't believe what a insult to non-custodial
    parents our judicial systems have become. So I read with both frustra-
    tion and interest. I'll give my opinion and advice when I feel
    qualified but essentially I'm learning a lot from these notes. Thanks
    for creating this conference.
    
                                      Julius
    
      
    
    

   Hi, I'm a non-custodial mom.  Yeah, I've got stories to tell.  The legal
   system stands for nobody but the legal system.


   							Terza

		Hi, Dennis is my name. This is my first entry into a notes
	file. When I started to read the notes and replies from all of you
	I couldn't help but feel all the pain come back to the surface. I
	am 44 and have 2 children a boy 9 and a girl how will be 15 next month.
	I have been divorced for a couple of years this Jan past. I have 
	joint custodial with the ex having physical custody of the children.

		The ex up and moved to Florida this past August and I became
	very bitter because I felt my rights too see the children were severly
 	changed. All my efforts to stop the move was friutless. Its as though 
	I had rights then there was none. Or was there really any to begin with?
 
		Gratefully, even though they have moved my ex hasn't stopped the
	communications with the children. And we even talk about how they are
	really doing like growing stuff, school,plans for college, etc. Well
	that's all for now and I look forward to sharing in the notes. 

    
    	 Well I think its time I back track and make an entry here.
    	I already have a few notes in here and it probably about time
    	for an introduction. My name is Jim, and I'm 32 and a non-custodial
    	father of 3. A daughter 13, and two sons 12 and 9. I get to
    	see them every other weekend. This has seemed to work out better
    	for me because I get to spend more time with them then before.
    	I use to have them ever Sunday from 9am-6pm but we spent most
    	of the time on the road because they live in Loudon N.H. and
    	I live in Massachusetts. I have also resently remarried and
    	this has also worked out very well with the kids. The really
    	like my wife and get along great with her. Guess I'm pretty
    	lucky in that respect. Well thats all for now I want so save
    	something for the other notes in the file.
    
    
    	Jim
    

    
    Charlie, Cal, Calcagni, separated, divorced in 78 after 13 years, married 
    to my present wife 10 years. 

    I have 4 children, a 20 year old girl and a 16 yr old boy who live with
    my first wife, a 14 yr old boy who I adopted that was from my present
    wifes first marriage, and a 7 year old..  A yours, mine and ours
    situation.
    
    My ex wife is a extreemly bitter person who after all these years still
    cannot stand to see my happy.
    
    She is very well off, partly due to me.  She still insists on taking me
    to court every other year to get more support.
    
    I have several issues pending and hope I can get some info from this
    file..
    
    Cal.
    

Hi,

I completed round 1 of the divorce last Oct. (Temorary Orders for divorce) 
and I'm sure the rest of this will not be anymore pleasant than the first.
From round 1 I now pay $250/week to my 1/2 ex who is living in supposedly
"our" mortgage free home and 9.8 acres of land in central Mass. Round 1
also cost me $500 to hire my now fired lawyer (only to find out that
Mass. has set guidelines that they will vary little from.

The most confusing part of this whole devasting affair is I had no idea it
was coming. There were no fights, no cheating, no money problems, no
sex problems. I thought I had the perfect life--a loving wife, two
children (18-Boy, 12-girl. I did notice that my 1/2 ex had become a 
little harder in her heart towards things when she became a full time
police officer about 18 months ago, but I shrugged it off and
continued to support her in her every move. The part that it happened
so quick without me knowing is just one of the hurts that I am going
through.

I am still trying to reconcile--it's like a roller coaster--one good date
one bad.(Sounds funny "dating" after 19 years of marriage.

I am still not dealing well with all of the emotional stuff. Notesfiles
like these are great for the moral support I so desparately need.

Thanks,
Tim

    Hi,
    
    I'm Polly Strife.  Let me say up front that I'm NOT a non-custodial
    parent.  I was the custodial parent of my daughter (now almost 21)
    since the divorce when she was three.  However, since I practiced
    Family Law parttime for the alst few years, one of your participants
    suggested that I might be interested in this conference.   

    Hello, my name is Lincoln and I have been divorced for two years
    and it has been a long and expensive journey.  I was married for
    19 years and the divorce was instigasted by me when the marriage
    finally broke down into a charade.  I will not go into detail about
    the divorce but needless to say I had a real eye opening experience
    when the final negotiations was settled.
    
    You see I was left with only the following
    360 a week in child support payments
    33 percent of the proceeds of the sale of our home
    None of the furniture
    all of the bills incurred during the marriage 
    Joint custodial care, my ex got physical custodial care
    One car
    and a chance to move out of a ten room house to an appartment.
    I also got to claim two of the  three children at tax time.
    
    I have had only one runn in with visitation and my lawyer and her
    lawyer dealt with it with out going to court.  Since that time we
    have only had breakdowns related to extra expenses that the children
    incur.  I have had to stop sharing in any extra care expenses as
    she could not possibly spend 120 dollars per week on each child
     and is just using the children to try to impoverish me. My gripe
    is  related to the bitterness that has been leveled at me by my
    ex. and the lack of appreciation that I get for the 19 years of
    support and the last three of following the intent and letter of
    the decree. She seems to feel that I owe her something else . and
    will use the children to get it.
    
    By the way my ex makes in excess of 850 per week and feels that
    she should not spend any of it on the children.	
    

    Hello, I'm Beth Holland. Custodial single mom of a 2 yr. old girl.
    Never married to her dad. I'm interested in this file to get some
    perspective on the non-custodial parent.
    
    So far there have been no battles with my child's dad. No legal
    arrangements -we've agreed on child support to cover her daycare
    and slightly more.  From what I've heard, here in MA I could get
    about double this based on his high income.  But I am interested
    in fairness and keeping him interested in the one evening a week
    plus one day every other weekend he sees her.
    
    I'm mainly concerned with consistency, love, and security in my
    child's life.
    
    Beth

    
    hi  my name is Frank and i'm a contractor with dec.
    divorced for 12 years with a 13 year old son who lives with his mother
    

    
    Hi, Steve MacDonald.  I moved out in September 1985 and finally filed
    for divorce in November, 1988.  It was final (finally!) on January 29
    of this year.  It has been long and painful.  I identify with lots of
    what I have read here.
    
    

   My name is Gary Wilson. I am 28 years old and the non-custodial parent
of my 2 year old daughter, Jennifer.  I did fight for custody but did not win.
The divorce has not yet been approved by the NH court but a final dis-agreement
has been reached.  Although the agreement calls for liberal visitation with the
days and times spelled out clearly, I currently see my daughter at her
mothers convenience which works out to every week day for a couple of hours
and for extended periods on the weekends.  I grab whatever extra time I can.
Her mother is generally good about me visiting my daughter, but occasionally
gives me a hard time for no apparent good reason.  I find myself extremely
bitter at both my ex and the court system, but I keep my daughter out of it
and am working on venting this bitterness positively.  Thirty-two percent
of my income goes toward support.  I will most likely be active in this
conference.

    
    Hi,
    
    My name is Debby and I am single-custodian parent of a 4 year old
    girl.  I am very interested in this file to learn about the laws
    concerning custodial & non-custodial parents.  I must say that the
    majority of these bitter custodial ex's should be damn lucky that
    they have a former spouse/lover who shows interest in his/her
    child(ren).  My daughters father has never shown much interest in
    my daughter and he just recently started paying me child support,
    which he complains about since he feels it is not his responsiblity
    because I am the one who left, but that is a topic for another note.
    
    I feel the same as the person in reply #8.  When I was little my
    parents went through a bitter divorce & my mother told me alot of
    things about my father (some true, some not) which has made me very
    distant from my father.  I am determined not to do that to my daughter.
    I never talk about her father in a negative way when she is around.
    She puts him on a pedestal, and that is where I want her to keep
    him, but unfortunately he could care less.  I have a constant battle
    going by trying to get the child support my daughter deserves and
    trying to get her father to see her and be a father to her.
    
    That's all for now . . . .
    
    Debby
    

    Hi,
    
    My name is Bernard and I'm a non-custodial father of 3 children who
    live with their mother in Ireland.  I'm currently living in
    Massachusetts.  This makes for interesting logistics in terms of
    visitation and even getting payments to Ireland.  Also makes my
    phone bills VERY high (~$250/month).

    Interesting reading so many people here with similar difficulties,
    frustrations, etc.  It's sad reading but it is nice to know that
    other people are dealing with similar situations and how they are
    doing it.

    Currently my divorce is not legalized but we have been separated for
    over 14 months now.  I'm trying to figure out a way (subject to ex's
    approval) that doesn't require going through the Mass. court system
    especially as this would leave her receiving as much (in Irish
    spending terms) as if she were head of a major company !!
    
    That's all for now.

    Hi,
    I am Doug Dalrymple and I am a non-custodial father of two boys who are
    Doug - 7 , and Nicholas - 4. They live with their mother. (presently).
    I say presently because I have filed for custody and am awaiting the
    court date right now. I live in Mass with the wonderful court system
    we have and am going with NO attorney.
    
    I have formed a group and have extensive research completed on the
    annotated laws of Mass. I have taken my bitterness and put to work
    on CHANGING THE SYSTEM. I have copies of the laws and with my extesive
    researc stand ( I know what you're thinking ) a chance, I feel.
    
    Like all/most of you, I too got socked. I have never missed a
    visitation unless she denies, and she has. I have my sons EVERY tuesday
    and thursday and every other weekend from friday nite to sunday nite.
    
    If anyone wants to learn more about the " SYSTEM " or wants to no more
    about my group please contact me.
    
    
    doug
    

I am Kristen Cox, and am a non-custodial STEPmother.  My husband was divorced
(after a 15 month battle) in 1988, and has three children from his previous
marriage (Chris 11, Jeremy 9, Andrew 7).  We have a daughter who is 14 months
old, and one on the way.

David (my husband) sees his kids every chance he gets, without any problems
from the ex.  Every other weekend, 1/2 of the summer and holidays, etc...  They
live 150 miles away, which makes for long trips to get/deliver them.  He would
like to have full custody (they have joint) but it is not the time for me and
our family - nor do I think he would succeed in getting it.  The boys mother
seems to be a good mother, and provides for them.  She tries her hardest to
make sure the kids hate "the devil woman" (me) but other than that, she's pretty
decent as far as mothers go.

I am also a co-moderator of the BLENDED_FAMILIES conference (DLOACT::) and
feel that this will give some different viewpoints.  I am frustrated with "the
system" and would love to help change it.  I have some ideas too, which will
probably come out later.

Look forward to sharing....

    I, like Kristen (-1) am also a non-custodial STEPmother.  My
    husband and I are both divorced - I had no children with my
    first husband, and he had one son with his first wife.  His
    son (Craig) will be nine in a few weeks and he's a great kid.
    He spends every other weekend with us, and he and my husband
    have "guys night out" on Wednesdays til 7:00.  (pretty standard
    visitation, I guess).  We have a reasonably good relationship
    with Craig's mom...  she and I can actually get quite chatty
    together on the phone sometimes and I'm really glad about this.
    Craig seems to have blossomed since his father and I got married
    and I became friendly with his mom.  Recently (6.5 months ago)
    I had my first child - a little girl named Allyson and Craig
    thinks she's just the cat's meow.  Ally lights up too when Craig
    walks in the room.  Of course we have our ups and downs, but generally
    we can solve any problems that crop up if we communicate.  This
    includes problems with my husband's ex.
    
    I'm quite interested in this conference and have already learned
    a lot.  Thank-you, Kenn and everyone else.  I may not agree with
    some of what's said, but it definately helps to hear others' views.
    
    - Kathryn
    

    Hi everyone. My name is Theo Langton. 32, american living in
    Switzerland, 3 year old son, currently going through a divorce with
    my swiss wife, who left me soon after we returned to live in
    Switzerland at her request.
    
    Swiss law nearly always gives everything to the mother, so my only
    possibility of being more with my son is mediating an agreement
    with her, rather than "fighting it out" in court. 
    
    I am faced with a decision about when to return to the US and how
    to maintain my relationship with my son. It's not easy. But I want
    the best thing for him.
    
    I'll be looking for pointers on how best to arrange a decision when
    the parents live far apart, on how to mediate with the child's interest
    in mind. And I'll be giving perspective on how things happen over
    here in the legal system.
    
    Glad to have found this notesfile and happy to "meet" you!
    Theo
    

    
    Hi, my name is Bart Blom, I am a non-custodial step parent, i.e.
    I care for (and love) my 15 year old step daughter, but I have
    absolutely no legal rigths (for over 10 years !).
    I am also the father of a 3 year old and a one month old (live can
    be great too !)
    
    A lot of the info in this file triggers strong reactions in me,
    since I have also been in the front seat in this on-going and very
    frustrating conflict with regards to my step daugther.  The funny
    thing in our situation is that we started out real well, got along
    just fine, I even signed for student loans so my wife's ex could
    go to medical school.
    However, over the years the situation has gone from bad to worse,
    with unfortunately my step daughter often caught in the middle.
    
    Anyway, enough for now.  I heard there is also a step parents
    conference.  Can anybody give me the location ?
    
    Bart Blom @TRO
      

    Hi, all...
    
    I'm Rick Staggs, divorced now for 9+ years, and happily remarried for
    nearly 8.  We have "his, hers, & ours".  I have 2 boys, age 14 & 12,
    from my previous marriage, a 12 year-old step-daughter (my wife has 
    custody), and we have a 7 year-old daughter together.
    
    During the first five years after my divorce, I had custody of my sons. 
    After working them for that period with unrelenting emotional pressure,
    my sons decided they wanted to live with "Mom", in Minot ND.  
    
    I can relate to the problems of custodial parents, non-custodial,
    step-parents, you name it.....
    
    From what I've read so far, this looks like a relevant conference in
    which I and all other contributors can learn, share, and perhaps make
    the trials of our situations a little easier to endure.  Looking
    forward to it.......
    
    rick

    Hi, Im John Papa, Divorced about 5 tears and custodial parent of two
    boys age 10 and 13. I also have a 23 year old daughter from my first
    marrage who has been with me since she was 10. I have had no problems 
    with the legal system to speak of. My ex and I went in with an
    agreement we made up before we saw a laywer and the judge rubber
    stamped it. 

    My name is George Rauh. I am about to turn 40 in Oct. I am in the heat
    of the divorce kitchen. My soon to be X met a lowlifeform in Maine one
    year ago Laborday weekend. Has taken off to his mobile home in Maine. I
    live in Nashua N.H. I was driving a 400+ mile weekend. I have filed for
    devorvce last december. I wish to have custody of my 2 year old
    daughter for I am still in the house, paying ALL the bills. Eva, my
    daughter has her own room and I do know how to raise and care for
    children for I am the oldest of 4. I just found this file, thank you
    for that info. It is very hard for me at the moment. I need this
    support network very very bad! GodBless you who ever you are who put
    this in the Human Relations files. 
    
    	It has been like a real bad joke on life and me. The wildest parts 
    were that IF I tryed to stop the SO from taking Eva she threated to go
    underground. I did not know of this man till the deed was done. The
    funny part is that like a bad Rodney Dangerfield joke,"Ha! I get no
    respect, my marriage is on the rocks. My wife broke up with her
    boyfriend". AND SHE DID!! She now resides with some bonehead in Ma.
    that she met over this past saint patrics day/weekend. 
    
    	It is now a year since she did the walkout/kidnapping. I am in
    court, I am doing the most of the paperwork, bill paying and the crud
    level goes on. I know that I am going to learn alot from all of you and
    get some very badly need support that I have been praying for that
    doesn't cost, both Dec and self big $$$$$$$! It is a very sensitve
    subject, and it hurts like hell. I can only say if we hold a civil
    toung to this madness we will only get what we deserve. More hurt for
    all and our children. And they are our future wealth of tomorrow. 
    
    God Bless you all!
    George
    

    Hi, I am another unhappy camper who can't seem to find any justice in
    the justice system.  I started my divorce proceedings in 1987 and a
    little over a year later and 9 times to the courthouse (we only went
    before the judge 3 times) my divorce was granted.  Then there was the 
    next 9 months and 4 times to the courthouse for the contempt sitation
    I filed to try to enforce what visitation rights I did get.  
    
    To say that my ex was, and still is, VERY bitter is a major
    understatement.  It has only been the last year or so that things have
    calmed down.  For awhile I thought I was living a soap opera.  As I
    indicated in my first sentence, I have found that there is no justice
    in our legal system.  My ex, who is a registered nurse, told my parents 
    that she shouldn't have to work, I should support her.  Well with the
    courts help, it has just about gone that way.  I have resigned myself
    to the way things are and am going on with the rest of my life.  It
    will be interesting to compare "notes" in this notes file.
    
    Bob Laslocky
    

    welcome Bob, and dont let it get you down.  Some folks in here will
    attest that there IS justice (sometimes)......
    
    AL

    Hi my name is Carole and I was a custodial parent. My daughter is now
    22 and I have 2 grand children. No support at all from her father
    while she was growing up but when the chips were down at age 15 
    she wanted to see him and I let her go. Probably the best thing I
    ever did. She lived with him for a couple of years and got to know him.
    Now I am a non custodial custodial step parent. My daughter 
    introduced me to my present husband who was an old friend of 
    mine that I used to date years ago. At the time she didn't know
    that. That got to talking they worked at the same place off and on
    she summer vacations for 2 summers any ways they found out who ech
    other was. She was 3 when we dated. Any how she fixed us up and 
    2 years later we got married. one week later his 13 year old moved in
    with us. He has 2 others at home. He pays his ex the full support
    payment agreement that was in the original decree. I work 2 jobs 
    he gives half his pay check. 
    The ex has the original home until the youngest is 18 6 years.
    The ex works part time 30 hours a week feels the kids need her
    home. the are 12 and 15 and have said numerously that they don;t
    feel as though they are trusted. The middle one voiced it so much
    she threw him out and that is why he is with us. She told hm
    to leave. course she has since regretted it but he refuses to go
    back. You could say that I think the system is so unfair that
    it doesn't even exist it is just a joke by some lazy part time
    judges who don't even want to be there and have become so 
    jaded that they don't even care if they listen at all.
    Now you can say coming from and having been on all  sides of
    this fence I have ddefinetly been there. 
    Thank God for you guys and I hope that I can help with some
    of my experiences as well as learn and possibly help others.
    Incidently the middle guy rob who is still with us by the way
    is trying to see his mom when ever he cans but alwys comes back
    upset. 
    He knows that there is another way.....Due to the fact that we
    needed a place in a hurry adn it just so happened that my ex
    throug coincidence had the perfect house, but he was moving
    and we over to see him one evening took Rob along. We ended up
    with the house a few months later thanks to my ex. But Rob
    got an enlightening experience the next day he asked who 
    the man was and I told him. He just looked at me shocked and
    said and you guys talk....He saw it for himself this was soon
    after we had been married and he hadd moved in..Gave him something
    to think about. sorry to be so lengthy,  but all seems so important
    I just don't want to leve anything ot. As I was reading everyone
    else's replies I wnated to cry I felt so much for you all.
    Oh by the way I have the kids Have never given me a hug or a kiss
    good night not even Rob. But just a few months ago he started
    and his brother caught him and wnated one too. That means
    so much....Oh another thing on my first wedding aniversary
    to his dad Rob gave me a rose. I feel so much and every other 
    experience I have had with other people never prepared me
    for the bitterness I have encountered by this ex of his who
    by the way calls me the devil person also she will do anything
    to destroy us and the kids and everyone else that stands
    in her way and doesn ot want her ex my husband happy in any
    way shape or form.
    Thanks,
    Carole
    

Hi,
    
    My name is Bruce, and I work in MRO1.  I am in the pre-divorce stage,
    have been married just under ten years, and have a daughter Jennifer,
    who is 9 years old, and a son Steven who is 2.
    
    I've been readding quite abit in this conference as i am new to
    this {!}.  I've related to alot of grief that I have seen.  I have
    been out of my house for about 3 months. {been accused of molesting
    my son}.  I've since then been paying all of the bills and giving
    my wife food,etc money.  I'd be living in my car if it wasn't for
    a co-worker taking me into his apartment.  Well, so begins a journey
    that has been long overdue, i'm afraid.  I've probabally been divorced
    in my heart for about 6 years.  I'm grateful for my friends, who
    by the way were on a shelf because of my relationship, and i'm grateful
    for my values and self that have held me together, although i've
    made some grave compromises that I have to understand so that they
    do not re-occur.  I'm feeling the feelings also.  Am seeing a great
    therapist in hopes that i can learn to understand, accept, and change
    what i can.  I meet my Lawyer monday, who promises to protect me,
    as I need protection, and honestly am not up to the battle at this
    point.
    
    Bruce

    
    Hi, I'm Jasper 'jd' Davis, a third shift computer operator at LKG.
    I've been mostly a reader to this point. Believe me this note file
    has been a big help to me. It helped me to know that I wasn't alone
    in what I'm going through. Presently, I'm in the very early stages of
    getting a divorce and the process is moving very slowly, and I realize
    that I have not been pushing the issues for a quicker agreement. My
    wife has sent me a separation agreement, and I've had my lawyer look 
    it over and he advised me to have certain conditions stated more clearly 
    or specifically which I did, and now I'm at a point of a stalemate-
    negotiating. 
    
    I have some question that I would like ask later on and to get an idea
    of what I can expect.
    
    Peace,
    jd

    Hi, I'm Jim Campbell.  I am new to DEC (2 mos).  I have already started
    posting in blended families so some of you have heard from me already.
    
    The basics are:  married (#1) 1972, Melody (17) born 1973, Jennipher
    (15) born 1975, divorced 1983, married Adrian (2) 1984, Jenni thrown
    out by her mom earlier this month and coming to live with me and my
    very reluctant wife tomorrow.
    
    The divorce was easy, she left me on a bluff and I called it.  She
    tried to go underground but ran out of money.  The children's mother
    (I try not to refer to her by name or as "my" anything, it helps keep
    me less emotional about her BS) has grown more hostile and vicious
    toward me and the children over time (I don't think she can stand to
    see anybody else have a decent life).  Mel graduates from High School
    in June of 91 and is planning to go to any college over 200 miles from
    her mom.  
    
    Among the fights of the past few years are the one to get a telephone #
    so that I could call the girls.  Forcing her to put the girls on a
    plane (I buy the tickets) so that I do not have to travel over 300 mi
    (one-way) for the visitations.  There is a lot more but enough for now
    here.
    
    The main thing is that I have had to work really hard to maintain a
    relationship with my daughters but it is paying off.  They still love
    and respect me and I am still in thier lives.  
    
    I'm am no happier than anyone else to be here, but I sure am glad to
    find y'all.
    
    thanks
    jimc

    Now that I'll be taking over as the conference host and also as one of
    the moderators, I better introduce myself.
    
    My name is Serge Dingelhoff.  I'm a software engineer, I work in the
    Mill in Maynard, Mass.  I've been divorced since September of last
    year.  I have 2 wonderful children, a 8 year old daughter and a 5 year
    old son.  My ex currently has custody of the children
    
    My relationship with my ex is pretty decent right now, but that has
    taken a lot of work on both our parts.  I feeling is that in the
    interests of the children, it is important to have a good relationship
    with the ex.  I know this is not always possible, but I've been
    fortunate that this is the case for me.
    
    I think the judicial system regarding my rights as a non-custodial
    parent stinks, and is unfair.  But I also realize that there are two
    sides to any story and that there have been cases of custodial parents
    being treated unfairly as well.
    
    I look forward to hosting this conference and occasionally
    participating when time allows.  I'll be in read-only mode most of the
    time, but I welcome any comments or feedback about how the conference
    is run.
    
    I don't plan on changing anything on how this conference is run, Kenn
    has done an excellent job for this conference to date.
    
     - Serge

    Hi, I'm Larry Schuldt, a support engineer at ACI outside Chicago.  I've
    been divorced somewhat over a year, and am the non-custodial parent of
    two daughters, ages 15 and 17 next month.
    	My ex has sole custody (my lawyer said that joint custody was a
    joke, so let her have sole custody) and visitation is described in the
    divorce decree as "reasonable".  Basically, I can see the kids and have
    them whenever it's agreeable to me and the kids.  In our case, it's
    worked out well.  I have been able to have the kids on the major
    holidays to go visit my parents, and I can see them regulary.  We talk
    frequently on the phone, with no limits on time.  Last month, my ex and
    her SO went to Wisconsin for a weekend, and she *asked* me to take the
    younger daughter while she was gone :^)  We're civil to each other and
    discuss the kids welfare regularly...  I don't pay alimony, and child
    support is reasonable ($156/week).  I have the younger daughter as a
    tax deduction and we split medical bills that insurance doesn't cover.
    	The only problem I'm having is that the older daughter is old
    enough to work weekends, and both kids have reached the point in their
    lives where they'd rather be with their friends that with Dad... sigh.

    Hello, I'm Karen.  I have been reading all of the notes in this
    conference for the past 4 weeks.  I admire all of you in this file and
    how you are dealing with your individual situations.  You have give me
    strength and alot to think about.
    
    I am entering this conference with a great deal of hesitation.  My
    story is alot different than what I have read in here.   I won't share
    all of it, but just the highlights.
    
    I have legal custody of my 15 year old son. His father currently has
    physical custody.  I live in Washington, they live in North Carolina.
     
    His father and I separated when he was a month old.  My divorce was
    final 8 months later.  My ex dropped out of site for the next 12 years. 
    I did not know where he was nor did he pay me any child support.  When
    my son was 11 I put him through drug/alcohol treatment.  He has *ALOT*
    of abandonment issues.  At that time his father came back into his
    life.  My son met him for the first time just before I put him in
    treatment.  After my son got out of treatment things were ok for
    awhile.  But then his behavior got completely out of control and there 
    were those of us who felt that my physical well-being was in jeopardy.  
    I ended up sending him to live with his father 2 1/2 years ago.  
    
    Because his father didn't pay me child support, it was agreed verbally
    by us that I wouldn't pay him child support.  PLEASE!  I know how some
    of you feel about the NCP paying support, I don't want to get bashed
    for this.  We also have not drawn up any legal papers transferring
    custody.  This arrangement has worked well.  My son's behavior has
    calmed down and living with his father has been a benefit for him.  He
    desperately needed to know his father.
    
    The only negative that has happened since my son went to live with his
    father was his father first getting layed off from his job and then
    having a car accident which prevented him working.  He ended up on
    welfare (my ex-husband is *NOT* the cream of the crop, he is currently
    working as a laborer for $5.00 an hour).  Well, welfare came after me
    for child support.  Yes, I was furious.  But, I have to pay it.  The
    amount I owe is minimal.  And I'm lucky.  I only have to pay it back at
    $10.00 per week.  
    
    My experience in collecting my own support has been very unsuccessful. 
    When I first tried, I was told that CSEA would not help me because I
    didn't have my ex's social security number.  And even if I did the
    going would be very slow because I wasn't on welfare.  Then, when the
    new ruling about garnishing the income tax refunds came out I was
    told I didn't qualify because I wasn't on welfare.  The laws have
    changed since then.  Now, I have checked into going after him for my
    back support.  I would have to hire a lawyer, at megabucks, get an
    order from Superior Court and then take the order to CSEA.  I am not
    sure I want to do that.  If I could limit it to his income tax refunds
    I would.  Since he only makes $5.00 an hour it would hurt my son to
    take a monthly garnishment.  And I am not real sure I want my son to
    come back and live with me.  He seems happy at his fathers, and has
    calmed down.  
    
    I apologize about the length of this.  I have been holding this in for
    a long time and it feels good to finally write about it.  As I said, I
    had alot of fear to enter this note, my situation is so different.  I
    will probably be read only, but may pop in time to time with a question
    or 2 or a reply or 2.  I strongly support the NCP rights, and I think
    the schedules for child support are completely unfair.  There is a
    group here in Washington, the name escapes me, that is lobbying for a
    fairer system of child support.  I support them 100%.  There really is
    very little justice in the courts, especially for the men.  
    
    Thanks for listening.
    
    Karen

    Karen,
    
    	There is no need to apologize. What happens, happens and how you 
    work things between your ex and your son is your business. But I am
    very very happy that you have opened up to us all. The lawyers in their
    infernal wisdom could be the real vilians here. And the only way to
    find out whats what is to re-read what paperwork was drafted up.
    
    George

re: .57,

Karen,

Glad to have you come on board, as a fairly new noter on this group my self,
there are a lot of good ideas and issues here. The note's file also makes a good
sounding board when for some reason or another you are not sure which way to
turn. The decision you make is ultimately yours in the end since your the one
who must live with the outcome.

Having to pay $10.00 a week is not bad, but then again it depends on your own
situation. Your situation is different in some ways, but you came to the right
place. I am sure the more seasoned noters may have some good advice.

John

    Think of a guy living on $11.00 a week! I saw one. Not a pretty sight.
    The rest of it was garnished by our inteligent court systems. He
    finally could not handle it any longer. After eating crakers and water
    for a couple of weeks living in a small car in the woods of New
    Hampshire. 

    I need to clarify something.  The $10.00 per week is *NOT* going to my
    ex-husband.  It is going to pay back the state of North Carolina for
    the time he was on welfare.
    
    Karen

    As in he will have a very very large bill that you will owe to the 
    state of North Carolina?

    As of today no.  He is now working and is not on welfare any longer. 
    The amount I owe is minimal.  Does this answer your question?

Since I'm entering a note here, I guess I'll enter an intro.  My name is Rita
Tillson Vasak.  I'm currently a sr. software engineer managing clusters and
systems in Tewksbury, MA.  I'm in the process of transferring as a software
spec IV to Digital Services in Houston, TX.  My SO is a noncustodial parent of
a four-year old son.  My SO will be coming with me to Houston, and we will be
married on 15-Oct, making me a noncustodial stepparent.  

I've been reading in this file for several months now, and it has been very
helpful to me in understanding his/our issues.  Thanks.


						/Rita

    I can't believe in all my time of noting, I have only very recently
    looked into this conference.  Timing, as they say, is everything. 
    Since I have only recently felt some stability in regards to matters
    addressed here, I guess it's the **right** time.
    
    I am an OIS Consultant in Washington, D.C., live in Maryland (lawyers
    here are just as expensive).  I have two children, Adriana, 10, and
    Nicholas, 8.  Though not yet divorced, we signed a custody agreement
    almost a year ago (joint physical & legal, alternating 2 weeks in each
    home - more in another note).  Sooooo, I'm not quite a NCP, nor a CP,
    or at least the situation has elements of both living arrangements.  I
    pay him child support (who said DEC pay isn't up to snuff!&^*).  
    
    It ain't over 'til it's over,
    
    Pat

Greetings,

I am a contractor at DEC and have been here for about six months.  I just found
this notes files.  This notes file is bad for ones blood pressure!

I am in the process of healing from my two previous marriages that went south.
I have one son 11 that after a nasty court battle I got custodity my son,
from my first marriage.  With my second wife I adopted her son and we had one.
I still don't have the mental wear-with-all to fight with her for visitation
or custodity (maybe some day).  My wife is also in Texas and I live in NH.
Child support isn't a big issue with me, because I found a loop hole in the
law that allows me to set child support to what I think is fair.  BTW I pay
about $600.00,  so I don't feel like I am screwing her and she doesn't get
to screw me.

-Darryl

    Because I've entered a note, thought I'd introduce myself.
    
    I'm a non-custodial mother.  I live in Massachusetts.  My ex, his
    wife and our daughter live in Vermont.  I  pay child support.

    
    Hi,
    
    I'm Kirk Dowsey, I work in Springfield, Mass. I've been with DEC
    for 15 years. 
    
    I was an NCP and a CP, it's a long story that i'll go into some other
    time.
    
    At this point my kids are grown and on their own. Now my son is an
    NCP. (Does that make me a non-custodial grandpa?)  8^)
    
    

    Well, I guess its about time I signed in! ;-)
    
    Joyce, fiancee to NCP trying to become custodial parent.  Our story
    is in note #179.   Karen Kennedy pointed me to this file and I thank my
    lucky stars (and her!) that she did.  I truely appreciate all the
    support and information I've gotten from the folks in this file.
    
    *hugs*
    
    joyce

    Hi,
    
    John Worcester here, custodian parent of 2 lovely daughters, Meghan
    age 10, and Laura age 8.  Home in Stowe, Vermont. 
    
    2 weeks ago, a repeated event took place, a few days after my
    Sweetheart left for a cruise vacation in Greece, and after my
    attorney filed motion to withdraw from the custody case.  
    
    Both girls received 2 phone calls from their mother over the Labor Day
    weekend.  She planted thoughts and ideas in their heads to have me 
    me put in jail.   She's expecting a baby.  The girls want to be with
    her when she has the baby.
    
    She has Multiple Personality Disorder, of 12 personalities.  Is
    unemployed, unstabled, and is living under Social Security checks for
    both hers and the girls. 
    
    On Tuesday, 8 September, both girls filed child abuse against me. 
    Meghan was so convincing, according to the STowe Police officer, that
    she was believable.  SRS immediately took them after school and gave
    them over to my ex, 40 miles away.  
    
    2 Detention Hearings took place.  I missed the 1st one because I was
    unawared of SRS's move.  I attended the 2nd one with my brother and
    denied all charges alleged against me.  I requested visitation with
    the children.  SRS agreed, but only if the girls want to see me.
    
    SRS took them out of Stowe Elem School and enrolled them into Hinesburg
    Elem School 40 miles away, without prior arrangement with the court.
    A Hearing will be held next Thursday, 24 September to discuss the 
    allegations to determine if it warrants any merits, and also to discuss
    visitation with the girls.
    
    I filled out an application with the court to get a public defender.
    I'm still waiting word from the court as to whether my request is 
    granted or not.
    
    This is a horrible, horrible time for me to go through... I have
    support from my friends and relatives.... but, I basically need a
    lawyer to represent me.  I have never harmed either of my children in 
    any way.  I'm hurting deeply... Am trying to keep my chin up...
    
    I guess some of you can relate to my story... I have not had a chance
    to read very many notes of this conference.  For all I know, a non-
    custodian parent would do anything to get custody of the children.
    Thus, as the case occurring at this moment.  The children have been
    prgrammed by her to make up such unbelieably false allegations...
    It's scary...
    
    They need to be placed in a foster home... and not with her, and also
    they need psychoanalysis so they can be de-programmed. 
    
    I've been cited to appear in court on 16 November for the alleged abuse
    charges.
    
    John

    Best thing to do is to do what it takes to make yourself look as
    pure as driven snow on Jan 1. I would opt lie detertest, op physc
    testing, and I would get motions for the opposing camp, and children
    as well. I would also start documenting all conversations, phone calls,
    and etc. that take place between you and oposing camps. I would also
    remember that your dealing with the high pinical of goverment
    inteligence:) These people give reason to why lizards and other
    reptiles eat their young. 
    
    And last but not least, pray, and pray, and pray and pray. I always
    do. 
    
    Geo

    Mod--Probably should start a new note with this and last couple.

    re .71 John
    I am not a lawyer, so nothing here is to be taken as _legal_
    advice.

    Probably won't be able to do anything until you get into court. Judges
    usually will not take a chance in areas of accusation of abuse
    (especially of abuse by the father), and will nearly always remove the
    children from the house until there can be a hearing. However, Judges
    have been through enough of these "abuse" cases  that they _are_
    somewhat skeptical when the case comes to court.

    Your problem is that you have to prove that something _didn't_ happen. 
    Not easy, but not impossible.

    DOCUMENT _EVERYTHING_.  Start a journal write down _everything_. Log
    everything you do.  Log _every_ contact that you have  (who, what,
    when, where, what was said, and what happened) with _anyone_ that is
    connected with this case.  Keep and catalog any pieces of paper that
    will verify dates, places, and what happened. Personal journals are
    usually admissible evidence and can be used to back  you up in court. 
    Show that you've been waging all out war to  prove your innocence.

    Go to Radio Shack and get a device to connect your phone to a tape
    recorder (check the law for your state, but usually it _is_ legal to
    record conversations so long as one party to the conversation knows
    that they're  being recorded).  Record any and all conversations with
    your ex, your children, or their attorney.

    If the court doesn't appoint an attorney, call the Bar Association, or
    a Lawyer Referral Service (usually yellow pages).  Start making phone
    calls to lawyers and banging on doors.  Start with lawyers that do not
    charge a fee for the first consultation.  See if they can help find
    someone that will represent you on at least a reduced fee.  Is there
    anything you have that is more important that your children?

    Has your ex been officially diagnosed with multiple personality
    disorder.  If so subpoena the records and the doctor/psychologist
    if at all possible.  

    Check with the chilren's teachers and/or school counselor.  See the if
    children have said  anything to them about "abuse", or if the children
    have been demonstrating any behavior common to abused children.  Subpoena
    them into court if you have to.  This is not a time to play nice guy.

    Check with the family doctor to see if there was ever any indication
    of "abuse" when the children went to see him.  Subpoena him if 
    necessary.

    If there were any friends that were around a lot that can back
    you up, call in any markers you can.  Check with anyone else
    you can think of (parents of the chilren's friends?) that may
    be able to back you up.

    Again this is no time to play nice guy, your children are at stake.

    fred();

    I hear ya, Fred!!... I called the court... My application for a public
    defender was approved by the judge... ONE STEP Forward!!... 
    
    I've been documenting stuff for over 2 years!.... And here we go again.
    I've been thinking of getting a device to stick top my handset to
    record conversation between the children and my ex.... I kick myself
    for not having done this to begin with.
    
    It's documented in the Final Order of the Divorce Decree  A N D  a
    recent Master's Report, that my ex has been diagnosed with MPD and
    Bi-Polar Disorder.  She's ALSO off her medication becuase she's
    pregnant, which can cause her to become unstabled.  Which is why I 
    believe was the reason why she was admitted to the hospital before
    Labor Day weekend.
    
    The Stowe Elem School staff would not talk to me.  The secretary was 
    advised to tell me to call SRS.   WHen I called SRS, the secretary
    always has an excuse for not connecting me with the caseworker.
    
    I agree with you, Fred that it's not easy, but it's NOT impossible
    either... I've been through the impoosible and it's been incredibly
    expensive and crazy... I think we need to move this into a new note.
    
    I'm heading out to my brother's house now... I think he spoke with my
    public defender.  I hope he has good news... You're so right...This is
    NO TIME TO BE NICE GUY... My girlfriend has BEEN TRYING TO TELL ME THE
    SAME THING for 2 YEARS!... She helped me fight like H*LL!!!!!.........
    
    I'll let you know later, what happens... I'm NOT GIVING UP!!...
    Thanks,
    John

    Re .74
    
    >It's documented in the Final Order of the Divorce Decree  A N D  a
    >recent Master's Report, that my ex has been diagnosed with MPD and
    >Bi-Polar Disorder.  She's ALSO off her medication because she's
    >pregnant, which can cause her to become unstabled.  Which is why I 
    >believe was the reason why she was admitted to the hospital before
    >Labor Day weekend.

    Have your lawyer take that documentation to the judge and ask for
    *emergency orders* to have the kids placed in foster care on the
    basis that they may be in eminent danger (which is the truth).
    Take the documentation to the police and to SRS.  Don't be surprised
    if they don't look at it, but if nothing else establish the fact
    that you tried and they ignored you.  If they won't talk to you
    or look at the documentation, mail it to them with certified mail
    and get a return receipt showing that you mailed them copies of
    the documentation.  

    >The Stowe Elem School staff would not talk to me.  The secretary was 
    >advised to tell me to call SRS.   When I called SRS, the secretary
    >always has an excuse for not connecting me with the caseworker.
    
    Keep trying.  Establish as much evidence as you can that you tried
    to talk to all parties involved and they are ignoring you.

    >NO TIME TO BE NICE GUY... My girlfriend has BEEN TRYING TO TELL ME THE
    >SAME THING for 2 YEARS!... She helped me fight like H*LL!!!!!.........

    Good woman.  Hang on to her. :^)

    fred();

        Carla Carboni
        SDE Rome - Italy
        7 years with DEC

        CURARO::CARBONI
        ROMCSA::CARBONI

    What does he want? Want to see the child? Want peace? What? 
    If you want to stop her from horrassing you, get a TRO against her.
    She breaks this she is in deep do-do. :)
    
    You want to see the kid? Then get a good attorney for it sounds very
    tricky for you to work out on your own in a Pro-se enviorment. 
    Either way the two of you are in for the time of your lives. 
    
    I would suggest getting a ticket to Turkey, get busted for drugs,
    and excape. You have a better chance of that then finding peace with
    this other woman. 
    
    Best is if you want to see the child, get a court to order a DNA 
    test. This can be done with a good attorney. 
    
    Wow? For a moment I was saying good things about an attorny? 
    Musta been flash backs? Yep, the 60's! Last thing I remember 
    was that Sha-Nha-Na was on stage in Woodstock!:) Wooow! Great colors!
    
    Geo

    Sheila Merson here from Ayr, Scotland.  I've been with Digital almost
    six and a half years.  Married to Jack.  Both were married before and
    Jack has a 13 year old son, Craig,  who has been living with us since 
    he was 10 years old.  Before that, he spent every other weekend and 
    some holidays with us.  I built up a good relationship with Craig
    during the time before we were married and before he came to stay.  His
    mother emigrated to Australia to live with her boyfriend and he chose
    to come and live with us.  Although we got on great before, Craig's
    behaviour since he came to stay has caused us a fair bit of stress.  I
    am very interested in this note as I can identify with some of the
    situations described here.  Also, reading some of the notes helps me to
    put some of my problems with my stepson into perspective.  
    
    We don't have much to do with Jack's ex wife due to some pretty rotten
    behaviour on her part in the past.  Although, it has to be said that 
    she has been quite supportive of our efforts to pull Craig into line 
    recently.  She has legal custody of Craig (she insisted on that before
    he came to stay with us and Jack agreed to it because, as he saw it, if
    Craig decided he wanted to go and live with his mother at a later date,
    he would probably let him and it would save more legalities). 
    
    Until I found this conference, I was just about tearing my hair out due
    to some behaviour problems we were having with Craig.  Now I don't feel
    as bad knowing that I'm not alone. 
    
    Thanks

    Best to do is to open this in the writeable area.
    
    1. If your having trouble, get councle.
    
    Sometimes kids are in need of attention. Sounds like thats what the
    child is looking for. And possibly isn't getting much from his mum.

    Try also MOIRA::PARENTING.
    fred();

    Also seek out a 'Tuff Love' group. Check out your local church, etc for
    info.

    Steve D'Andrea.....just found this conference.  Married in 1972
    divorced in 1990.  Two daughters 16 and 18, I'm NCP.  I've learned what
    it's like to be a parent who's children have grown up and gone away,
    only they have'nt grown up yet.  I get to see them about 2 to 4 times a
    year with absolutely ZERO help or cooperation from my ex-wife.  She
    lives in SC and I'm 450 miles away in VA.  I do ALL the driving.  My
    relationship with my girls is great considering, my relationship with
    my ex-wife is incredibly awful.  I am re-married to a wonderful woman
    who cares deeply for my daughters and has been a lifesaving support
    partner for me.....she has an ex-husband, so I enjoy reciprocating the
    supprort.  I'ts amazing how much clearer I can analyze her situations
    from my point of view and vise versa....a non-emotionally biased
    opinion is very helpful.......
    
    anyway......hello!
    
    steve
    
    8*)  

    Dan Dingeldein... If you don't know me by now, you just need to read my
    entries in this conference. 
    Married 1972, divorced 1973, my son's a product of my marriage, or
    should I say my marriage is a product of my son! (one of those "oops!
    now what do we do!). Short term relationship in 1984 produced my 9 year
    old daughter. One of those "Gee, I know we agreed not to have
    kids...but...guess what! I could care less what you think!" So now I,m
    an "ex parte" father fighting for his financial life and his daughters
    mental health! It shouldn't hurt to be a kid and it shouldn't hurt to
    be a parent... but being an NCP nowadays is the most painful experience 
    I've ever dealt with (except losing some loved ones). Anyway, howdy
    ya'all! You've been absolutely great to date. I've learned so much and
    have also gotten a lot of support here and I'm very grateful.
    					thanks again,
    						Dan D  

    Hi Dan , nice to hear from you! 
    Sylvain
    

    I figured since I was spilling my guts and exposing all my dirty
    laundry I might as well give ya'all a little better idea about where
    I'm comin from. WE (NCP's) have got one of the toughest rows to hough
    in this world and we gotta stick together (somewhat) because being an
    NCP today and being truly understood is like trying to communicate with
    a foreigner, if you don't know the language or the enviroment it's very
    difficult to relate... so I'm plastering myself all over these
    conferences and don't care what people think, as long as they think! 
    Anyway... thanks Sylvain... I'll keep it up until our problems are
    fixed or I'm in jail!
    					Love, Peace, and all that,
    							Dan D

        Hi Dan,

    From another long time tilter-of-windmills.  Although I have received
    custody after an 9 1/2 year battle, I have continued to speak out
    for ncp and children's rights.  First off, because it _is_ children's
    rights as well as ncp rights.  Also because I _can_ speak out without
    being dismissed as some disgruntled wacko with an ax to grind.  It
    always throws a kink in the anti-ncp group when they find out that
    I am the cp and I cannot be dismissed out of hand as some wacko.

    I also have a personal debt to pay to pass on my experience, strength,
    and hope to those traveling the rocky road.  The ncp has few places
    to turn for any kind of hope and advice.  I hope we can make this file 
    one of those places.

    fred()

    Dan,
    
    Its not just an issue of the NCP. Its men in general. In order to gain
    custody or even get proper visitations. You have to be in line for
    saint-dom. And she is an ax wheeling, pill popping psyco, shop
    lifter... And the courts will not over look your short fallings....
    
    

    You guys goota get into WMNNOTEs, their slamming the custody reversal
    in MI. It's amazing how "myopic" some people can be...
    revealing!(haHa) 
    Both you guys (Fred and George is it?) have been there for me and I've
    tried my best to reciprocate. We just gotta keep it up and hopefully
    more and more NCP's will start taking a more vocal stance to their
    situation. I too am a CP and an NCP, all at the same time...what a
    trip!
    						thanks again,
    							Dan

	  Let's not discuss other conferences here, please.

	  And if we're going to discuss, let's do it elsewhere than in the
     introduction topic, shall we?

	  Thanks.  ;-)

				     Brian

    
    I'm new to this notes file, and am hoping to gain some insight.  I have
    2 boys (6 and 9) and another boy (1 yr), from a different father.  I
    was married (though we're technically not yet divorced, we've been
    separated for 3+ years) for the first 2, and only lived with the father
    of the baby for a while, before he took off.
    
    With the older children we share them, pretty much equally.  He has
    them Wed. night to Sat night/Sunday morning, and I have them Sat
    night/Sunday morning till Wed morning.  This has worked out the best
    for all of us.
    
    With the baby, the father only sees him if I insist on it, or bug him
    about it.  He SAYS he wants to be involved in the baby's life, but he
    doesn't ACT that way .... (obviously) I have custody of the baby, and
    there's never been anything legal at all (except that the dad's name is
    on the birth certificate).  I'm hoping I can get a better understanding
    on where he really is with this child, and decide whether or not the
    baby really is benefitting by this somewhat "forced" relationship with
    his father.
    
    ...and find out if I'm the only one who thinks we should string him up
    cuz he Doesn't want to be involved (-;
    
    Patty Weier

    Real life, the father does not have an obligation in the legal sence of
    it to visit his child. His legal obligation, weather you want to
    understand it or not, it only to pay his child support. 
    
    Many of us will concure with you that it takes two adults to raise a
    child. And it is to his misfortune that he is not.
    
    There are other issues around the child visitation and it might be a
    wee more personal for him. That is, there might be too much pain for
    him to see the child, the lost love of you. And now trying to deal with
    it and the child. There is a hurt sometimes that goes beyond face. I
    cannot speak for him, I can speak for myself, and maybe a few other men
    who had lost custody, lost contact. 
    
    You cannot make him go to family councle, but if you can, that can be a
    good start. If he doesn't want to. Then there is nothing more you can
    do. Execpt follow thru of what must be done in the best interest of
    yourself and the child. 
    
    I am a custodial daddy. I make sure that the ex has ample visitation,
    and encourage it as often as possible. A good line that I have said
    time and time again."Children are not exclusively moms nor dads. They
    are on loan to us from God Almighty for 18 years. Then they belong to
    themselves, or someone else." 
    
    Peace
    

	Well , I have been reading this conference for
	a while now and have decided to give an overview
	of my situation heading into divorce.

	- married 17 years

	- 42 years old

	- 3 kids
	   son        13 - will live with me
	   daughter   11 - will live with mother
	   daughter    6 - will live with mother

	- Own a 4 bedroom home with about 1 year salary in equity 

	- 401k savings equivalent to 1 year salary

	- DEC Pension equivalent to .5 year salary

	- .4 year salary in other debt besides the mortgage.

	- we have two older cars

	- We will attempt to all live in the same town we
	  are in. Lots of visitation planned. I hope
	  to be able to buy a small cape for my son and I.

	- My wife does not have a job right now. Will
	  be looking for part time work.

	- We had an initial session with a mediator .
	  I do have a lawyer to advise me during the
	  mediation process.

	- I plan on starting from the point of splitting
	  assets and debt 50/50 . Not really sure what
	  the difference between equable distribution and
	  equal distribution would be.

	- My wife is throwing out ideas like :

	  Since she and the two girls represent 60% of the
	  family , she should get 60% of the assets.

	  She will investigate if she should get alimony.

	  She should get the Massachusetts full child support for 
	  the two girls and not consider the fact I will have
	  our son.

	  I to be "fair" , but I am not sure what "fair" is.
	  I feel the  support and alimony negotiation will be 
	  the hardest to work out. I am always looking for
	  opinions on how to get through this process.
	  

Brian

    re Brian
    
    Good luck.  Document, Document, Document.
    fred();

    And remember when you feel like your spinning your wheels, pull out and
    go for your attorney. Sometimes mediations don't work, and sometimes
    they do. It depends on how far off center line both parties are. 

    Brian,
    
    	Don't get hung up on trying to be fair because it's obvious
    your wife is trying to screw you. Part time work, 60/40 asset 
    split, alimony and full child support ! Incredible ! I won't
    comment on any of this because it would not be flattering to 
    your wife and I don't wish to offend you.
    
    Mike

    Re. .-1
    
    Incredible? You're kidding, right? My ex-wife was at home and didn't
    work prior to the divorce (ever since the kids were born). We ended up
    with roughly a 50/50 split (really more like 60/40 in her favor when
    all was said and done). We have joint custody, but she has primary
    physical custody while I have visitation (pretty much as much as I
    want). I pay full child support for the two kids plus alimony. She's
    now working part-time (30 hours/week). So in addition to what I already
    pay her, we're splitting the daycare costs this summer while the kids
    are not in school 50/50. Of course, I also have the kids fairly often
    and spend plenty of money on them when I have them for food and
    entertainment. I have spent the last couple of days trying to work
    myself back out of debt, and I'm almost there. My standard of living is
    not what it once was. Nor would I expect it to be. Brian, if you're
    expecting this whole process to go smoothly and where you'll end up
    being able to live at the same standard of living as before, you're
    going to be disappointed. My ex and I continue to get along pretty well
    and did for most of the divorce proceedings...but there were a number
    of very ugly moments...and we still have them from time to time.

    	And that should have said that I've spent the last couple of YEARS
    trying to work myself back out of debt...Must've been a little wishful
    thinking that it had only been a few days!