Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    1. She has to let you know where she is moving and give addresss and
    telephone number.
    2. She (cp) can move out of state, but if your divorce decree says that
    the children cannot move more than.....say 50 miles from the present
    address, you can limit the travel of the CP.
    3. The ex can drag you into court, under a Urisa (sp), but not to the
    state where she is to move. The divorce happens in (example) NH and
    in order to change this she has to pention the NH courts to move all
    to the residing state. Its a tuff sled to drag and a costly one. 
    Child support is a differnt issue, she can walking the local district
    court and file from there that your not paying child support.
    4.You and the ex have to work out the travel plans and the crappie
    with who pays the airfare.
    
    Mine preformed a slick move called 'Parental Kidnapping'. She move into
    another state, threaten me with the old one of if you want to see
    the kid again, you better not stop me.
    
    I found her and my daughter three weeks later. And I had, like many 
    other NCP's planned to move to the state where the children were
    living to be close to them.

    
    My (second-hand) understanding is that if the CP moves, then he/she
    must pay the travel costs for the visitations to the NCP.
    
    
    On the other questions, I don't know at all. 

    .3 
    
    Several things can be done with all of the above. But you have to
    understand there is some back fire if you try any of the above.
    
    1. You can write a motion to the courts to find out what is her sources
    of income. And if she doesnt write down the boarders on the premis,
    then she has pergered herself. And if you can find that out, chances
    are that she isnt filing it with the IRS. And I am certain they would
    love to know about fraud.:)
    2. Find out if the health board codes are exceded by the amount of
    adults are in the unit. 
    3. Find out if there is any criminal back grounds of any of the other
    adults. 
    
    You might be able to get a change of custody on a couple of these.;]
    Esp if one of the guest is a registered child molester or has a back
    ground in this habbit.;}
    

    
    re .0

>    Has anyone had any experience with the custodial parent moving out
>    of the state with the children.  The CP and NCP have joint 'legal'
>    custody of the children and she (C) has physical custody.  The 
>    only thing really spelled out in the divorce decree is that the 
>    CP shall provide the NCP with the address and telephone number 
>    at all times.  

    If there is nothing in the decree, then she can probably do it.
    You may be able to stop her if she is not moving to get a job or
    go to school, or improve her/their life in some way.  Otherwise
    it will be very difficult to stop her.

>    Would the new state laws have an effect on child support payments?

    Not right away,  however, she can petition to have jurisdiction moved
    to that state since she and the children now live there and it would
    be more "convenient" to have jurisdiction near where they live.  Then
    the laws of that state will apply if she wins the change of
    jurisdiction.

>   Could she take us (NCP) to court in the new state?

    She may be able to for non-support, but unless she gets jurisdiction
    changed, she can't ask for any changes of support of visitation in
    her new state.

>    What if we moved to another state - could she withhold visitation?
>    (every other sunday is a bit hard across the country)

    She will be in contempt of court if she does, but the state will
    not extradite her for contempt.  So as long as she stays out of the
    state, she can get away with it.  You would have to take the contempt
    papers to her state and ask a judge there to honor the contempt 
    citation.

>    Would having the kids with the NCP throughout the school year and
>    with us (C) during summer vacation and some school vacations 
>    be considered reasonable visitation and could she argue that it 
>    wasn't?

    That one will be up to the Judge.  Maybe, maybe not.

>    If she moves, do we have to pay the kids' airfare to come see us?

    Again that may be up to the judge.  Could be one, could be the other,
    or could be half and half.  If she doesn't have any job, then you're
    probably going to get stuck if you wan to see them.

    .4
    
    I can tell you from first hand experience that the CP is not
    responsible for paying travel fairs.

This situation happened with me recently. My ex-wife and son moved to Florida.
She was unemployed and wanted to move to the town where her parents live.
My lawyer advised me that given this situation, the Mass. court system
would let her go (note: in Massachusetts you have to apply to the court
to move out of state). They did. I also got socked for another $90 a week in
child support. In addition I pay all travel costs and most long distance phone
costs.

My ex-wife refuses to work full time, and her potential earning power
is not much above minimum wage, so when I see my son (every 2-3 months)
I pay travel costs. You have to do what you have to do...

The positive side to my situation is that in a little over a year my
son will be 18.

So to answer your questions... in Massachusetts she will need to explain
why she will better herself (and therefore the children) by making the
move. Depending on how much you are paying for child support, don't rule out
that the amount might be adjusted downward somewhat to account for air travel.
Will this latter possibility stop this person from considering the move??

    This is a very difficult issue to deal with as a NC parent.
    If anyone wonders why some non-custodial dads are so bitter read
    about custodial moms that skip town with our children!!!
    My erstwhile wife is planning her third move in six years with my two 
    boys. First was 40 miles, second was 220 miles and the third ????
    I am always the last to find out; enough about my problems!
    Perhaps you could get a restraining order to stop the move and then
    file a motion with the court to place distance limits on her and 
    the children. I would try that route.  Maybe you will have some
    success. I believe you can get a restraining order just by walking 
    into the local court and seeing a judge.  To file a motion with the
    court will require a lawyer unless you are very knowledgable about
    court procedures.            
                                        Good luck!!
                                         Bill

    Most lawyers will tell you that writing a motion to forbid the
    mother/cp person not to move is against her constutional rights. To
    limit the travel of the children from the Marrital home will have a
    better chance of sticking. Again it will also fall into what is the
    STATE of mindless of the local state laws that exist.

    Hi,
    
    My ex and I were divored 3 yrs ago and we have a decree that clearly
    states that our kids are allowed to be out of Mass within 30 days.
    They must return to Mass after that or else. Now, here is the scoop!!
    She told me often that she wanted to move out of state of Mass to
    either Indiana or Md. I told her that she is not allowed to do so. She
    is a Coordinator of the school and living in a house that I used to
    live in. She complains that living in Mass is too expensive. She will
    need my permission to allow her to move out, right? I will NEVER allow
    that as I love my kids and I raise them.
    
    Any response would be much appreciated!
    
    Dave
    

    She her civil rights will allow her  to move. Unless it is spelt out in
    the final decree that the children are not to move say more that 100
    miles of the marrital home, your outta luck.
    
    In the state of mass, she will be allow to do what ever she wants. And
    if she is living in the marrital home, mortgaged and all. Be prepaired
    to take up the cost of the mortgage, be ready to move in, or be ready
    to file bankruptcy.
    
    

    
    If she goes back into court, she may be able to get the final decree
    modified.   However, I would doubt that the judge would allow 
    modification unless there was some clear improvement in the children's
    benefit.  Just because she doesn't like the cost of living in Mass.
    would not (imho) justify modification and moving the children away
    from their other parent.  If she has a change at a better job that 
    would significantly improve the living standards of the children, then 
    she would probably get the modification.

    fred();

    If she secures a new job, and it is an increase in money. Certin she
    would be granted the blessings of the court. 

    I'll fight my tail off to death to make sure that kids will not leave.
    I
    can't believe that she would do this to me. I have been very good
    fathering to the kids as they told me so. Matter of facts, they clearly
    told me that they do not want to depart from me. I'll keep you in
    posted.
    
    Thanks for the quick replies,
    
    Dave
    

    Dave,
    
    God Bless! And good Luck. But as told to me by one of many attornies in
    my case, is that: 'seperation of father and child is a ever increasing
    delema and problem of the late 20th century....' Of course it was a 
    very hard pill to swallow, and I felt the same thing as you. Anger,
    cheated, most of all alienated from children that I to have help'ed
    into this world. I too got up in the middle of the night and fed,
    changed shorts, and etc. Now your facing the daily growth of them as
    they develope. And even though your paying your support faithfully it
    still is the short stick of life. Socially accepted by the courts,
    unaccepted by you and myself. 

    ...the watching them grow line, is that your cheated again. You will
    now become a visitor or even more a distint relitive in their lives
    than a father you are. 
    
    

    The problem with this situation is that she can up and move, take the
    new job, and get settled before you can get her in front of a judge. 
    By then, if the kids are doing well and their lifestyle looks
    appropriate to the courts, good luck getting a Mass court to order her
    to move back......
    
    Sorry, but if there is anything you can do up front and soon, do it. 
    Another caution is to take a real good look at the possibility that her
    moving may be better for your children.  Search your soul and do what's
    best for your kids, not for your needs.
    
    my $.02
    
    steve (who's children moving to Florida dramatically improved their
    lifestyle, but makes it nearly impossible to see them more than twice a
    year)

    .18
    
    But are the children around their family of both sides? The grand
    parnts/your folks? Her folks? 

    RE: -1
    
    If you are asking about my children in Florida, yes they are near both
    of their grandmothers.  They are older now, so the point may be moot. 
    One graduates this month and the other next May, so they are to the
    point where I wouldn't see them as much anyway and they are old enough
    to drive up to see me!
    
    Good luck to you, i hope things work out best for all concernced.
    
    Steve

    Steve,
    
    Yes, I was asking of your children. And maybe you may feel the point is
    moot. And that is your call, not mine. Many fathers will not get to see
    their kids graduate because of the distant factor. Yes, your children
    are older and now have developed their own lives. And again its your
    decision. For some of us, it is not a decision more than it is children
    being chattel of the mother. And reguardless of where they move, seeing
    them becomes unreasonable at best. And many of us wish to be a part of
    their lives, not visitors as a distant uncle or other such relitive. 
    Many children, younger than yours do not have a drivers license, and
    will not have one for 10 years or better.
    
    

    Steve,
    
    Please understand, I was not digging on you or flaming you, just a
    differnt view of life. Something that I have said before that might
    help all sides:
    
    "Children are not exclusively mothers nor fathers. They are on loan to
    us from God Almighty for 18 years. Then they belong to someone else or
    themselves."
    
    Peace
    

    I totally agree with the previous reply as I believe that fathers have
    every single rights to have the kids to live nearby them. I know for
    facts that my children appreciate every moment, spending times with me.
    My father was great and caring to me and I wanted to pass it on to my
    children. So my ex-wife really needs to look at kids needs, not just
    her. Beef up Fathers and stay up for your rights. 
    
    Good day!
    dave
    

    No, I understand.....when I say the point is moot, I mean it is moot
    for *me*.  My daughters are driving up from Florida next week and it is
    wonderful to have them for a while.  We have mangaged to stay very
    close through the phone and letters, and we always enjoy our time
    together.  I am very sensitive to other situations and I can't tell you
    how it might have felt to be so distant from my kids at a younger
    age...it might have 'killed' me.  I was unfortunately rushed into the
    mode of "father of older children".
    
    The problem is the fact that the courts probably won't stop a mother
    from moving the children away if it is career related....
    
    no offense taken.....I feel sorry for anyone goinf through the breakup
    of a family and being distanced from their children.
    
    steve

    Lets all get together and and make a poster of **Malicious Moms***
    who moved out of state with our children and put it next to the
    "Deadbeat Dad"  posters in the stores!!!    
    
    I see no difference between custodial mothers who skip town with the 
    children and fathers who won't pay child support!!   Although there are 
    exceptions, irresponsible parents exist on both sides of this issue.
    
    I can honestly say that nothing has caused me more anguish and
    emotional pain in my life than when I realized my children were moved
    out of state.  I can relate to the feelings of the basenoter and others
    who responded here.  Sadly there is too much blatent insensitivety
    by Judges, politicians, womens PAC"s  etc. toward mens side of the
    issue.   Good luck to the basenoter; May he not have to go through
    what I have and continue to go through!
                                                        Bill

    The problem is that it is not socially accepted, you have to go onto
    Ophra and bash em first.:) 
    
    The laws, being what the may, do allow moms to move out of state
    because this would violate their civil rights to freely move at their
    whim. Think if you had that imposed upon you, you could not move out of
    state. Yet, I am extreeeeemy emphitic towards this problem because the
    kids loose the parenting models of both the NCP, and all of the
    extended family. The children loose the family ties that are
    homogienous of the georgrhy. Missing out on simple things like the
    American tradition of sunday dinner, holidays, and of couse the bonding
    that the NCP can provide for the children as he/she picks up the
    children after school, taking them to baseball, basket ball, etc. etc.
    This is like having the life of them, the most influential part of them
    removed and installed the ex's beau, all of them, having more
    influence, parenting than the ncp.