Conference quokka::non_custodial_parents

    Ed,
    
    	What living conditions does the ex live in? Does she live in the
    former marrital home? What is she spending it on? Good times? Is the
    ex remarried? Has the ex denied you visitations for no aparent reason
    execpt to frustrate? 

    Ed, it varies state by state according to the child support guidelines
    in effect in each.  Mass. has very high amounts.  I now pay 33.6% of my
    gross plus another 6.25% in medical coverage -- ie. almost 40% of my
    gross.  This together amounts to about 51% of my net.
         
    Steve

re: .0,

Your current wife's frustrations are mutliplied if she's has never been married
before, and if so, had no kids from the previous marriage. It is very hard for a
new SO to understand the long term obligation you have and causes additional
stress for not only her but you too. Child support is a fact of life for an NCP.

For what it's worth, my child support amount works out to be about 25% of my net
take home pay. It seems to me a fair amount, my only problem is the rest of the
transaction was really f*cked up in a major way. So for the short term, my
actual percentage works out 55% of the net for the first four years and reduces
to 25% for the rest (that is assuming the ex doesn't screw me for more in about
2 years).

My current lawyer in one of our conversations said that (for Ontario anyway)
there is no magical formula to determine what is a fair amount for child
support. There is something called the Paris formula used in extreme cases by
the courts. Most amounts are agreed upon by the parents of the child and so can
really vary from one extreme to another depending how just and reasonable the
two parties are.

In a quick summary of the Paris formula, the CP determines a reasonable cost to
support the child (court has guide lines they consider reasonable, what these
are is unknown). This includes a percentage of the rent/mortgage, utilities,
school activities and so on. They sum the CP's and NCP's income and figure what
percentage the childs cost is to the sum and then the percentage of the CP's to
NCP's ratio. Then the NCP must pay x% of the child's cost only since the CP must
cover his/her share too. Sounds nice on paper but rarely occurs. Again the
child's costs are determined solely by the CP with no input from the NCP. How
this works out to real %%%% is not clear to me.

    Ed,
    
      I pay 22% of gross which is 30% of net.
    This was 25% and 33% when the amount was
    calculated but I've since had a salary
    increase.  This is in NH for one child.
    
    Regards,
    Gary

    
    	The ex has the former marrital home, the former marrital car, I was
    fortunate enough to get the former marrital bills.  She is spending the
    money on the house payment, the car payment, clothes and they get the 
    left overs.  The ex is not remarried.  We keep hoping she gets
    remarried to some guy that doesn't want kids.  I get plenty of
    visitation.
    
    	It's just all very frustrating.  I know I could take better care of
    them and they would be happier with us.
    
    	Ed

    Hence, when ever she has a short call with capitol. Your obligated to
    dig deeper into your pockets to cover her (ex) personal spending
    spree? Gee, is this a court order? What would happen if you just
    stopped covering her cost? Or make payments directly to the companies
    vs giving it to her to care of? 

    percentages don't mean much.  Most support payments are calculated on a
    percentage of what the court calls "net"... and that's a long way from
    what you and I call "net"... income.  
    
    They allow you to subtract FICA and Federal and State income tax. 
    That's their "net".  
    
    Your "net" include such things a whitholdings for savings, insurance,
    direct deposit, automatic payments... in other words your "net" is what
    you take home each week...
    
    So comparing percentages of what your child support is relative to your
    net, is meaningless.  (my child support is over 76% of *my* "net"!).. 
    
    tony

    My figures? 19 and 32 % give or take a bit.  They use this formula, you
    see, to fix the amount of child support.  You know that.  A lot of us
    guys don't pay child support... a lot of us mean, nasty dirty desperate
    male chauvinist pigs try like hell to beat the system.  The courts have
    ways and the lawyers have ways of beating us.  Now, I was married. 
    Have 2 boys in another state staying with their mother.  I was kind of
    new to this divorce/child support game.  My second wife was not new to
    it.  I was her 3rd husband.  She get a pittance from #1 and nothing but
    grief from # 2.  She taught me what I needed to know to keep from being
    steam rolled by the system.
    
    It seems that I used to have a job where I got paid by the hour with
    over time.  There was a LOT of overtime.  My second wife had a good
    job.  #1 had quit and was doing the full time mother routine and had
    just started working again after the divorce.  So, every year for about
    4 years I would get summoned into Family Court .  I could count on
    getting the summons around Thanksgiving. To appear the week before
    Christmas with my current pay stubs and those of my #2 spouse.  The
    summons came in the mail.  Thge first time it sort of shook me up.  My
    wife suggested that I don't take my current stubs in.  I came upon a
    solution.  Since they didn't serve the process in person there is no
    proof that I got it.  So I didn't go.  They served me another summons
    the day after Christmas to appear the week of New Years Day.  I called
    and told them I would be out of town then.  They told me I had to
    appear.  I told them I wouldn;'t be there.  If they wanted to
    reschedule I was open anytime in the next month.  They refused.  I
    didn't go to court.  They served me another summons in person the 2nd
    fo January.  I went to court the following week with a pay stub with no
    overtime.  
    
    The court wanted my wifes (#2) pay stubs.  She had been through all of
    this before many times with her ex (#2).  She refused to give them to
    me.  The master (family court judge) asked me where were my wifes pay
    stubs.  I told him she refused to give them to me.  He seemed to be
    pissed off and tried to give me a bunch of crap.  I was nervous about
    this the first time but hell, she refused to give them to me.  I
    pointed out that she has 2 kids of her own and she doesn't want to be
    involved financially in my child support problems.  The master stopped
    bugging me.  I don't know why but he did.  #1 worked one night every 2
    months and the rest of the time she worked days.  The kids stayed with
    their Grandmother after school but that one week of night time baby
    sitting, she claimed, cost her $500.  I was supposed to pay $36 a week
    for the rest of thier minority to pay for that.  I told the master that
    I would babysit the boys in their home and prepare dinner and tuck them
    in their beddies on these nights.  Saved me $36 a week.  She worked
    that shift only 9 months.  It has now been 7 years.  
    
    So many men try to abuse the system.  So many women try to abuse the
    system.  So many lawyers know so many tricks.  Once you start paying,
    it is very hard to get a support reduction.  If you get overtime pay,
    try like the devil to get into court the first week in January and make
    sure you don't put any overtime on your last timecard in December.