| Title: | Welcome to the Non-Custodial Parents Conference |
| Notice: | Please read 1.* before writing anything |
| Moderator: | MIASYS::HETRICK |
| Created: | Sun Feb 25 1990 |
| Last Modified: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Last Successful Update: | Fri Jun 06 1997 |
| Number of topics: | 420 |
| Total number of notes: | 4370 |
This is a copy of the note that I entered in Mennotes. It
probably has a male slant since that is my point of view,
but the principle is the same for a non_custodial mother
also.
I will not go into a tirade about the injustice of the court
system when dealing with child custody, support, and visitation.
If I get started on that one, there probably isn't enough
disk space left on this system for me to finish. This topic
is more for what CAN be done about the problem of the violation
of visitation rights. I have fought and won a contempt of
court judgment against my ex wife. It can be done. The
following are some of the things I used to accomplish that.
I would like to have entries from other fathers who have
fought and won.
1) Have your child support paid up in full. It's not supposed
to make a difference, but that's the fist thing they'll
hit you with.
2) Present the case as a violation of the CHILDREN'S RIGHTS
to visit and know their father. After all that IS what
is happening as well as violating your rights to see and
know your children.
3) Keep trying to see the children even though you know that
you're going to get the door slammed in your face. Be
polite, don't cause a scene, and DON'T get sucked into
any confrontations. If you don't try, then there's no
violation.
4) DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT every time you ask to see
the children: date, time, place and result. Make sure
that your requests conform to the letter of the court
orders. Establish a pattern if she keeps making excuses.
5) If you have a friend or relative willing to help, then
have them along as a witness both for the visitation
attempts and in court. (I know, it's a lot to ask).
6) Especially if you have a witness, politely bring up
the visitation orders and get their response. (My
ex shot a major hole in her foot with, "They won't do
anything to me").
7) If the court just slaps her on the hand the first time
you may have to start over and go back again. Eventually
the court will get tired of her and hit her with some
major penalties (jail time).
8) I would advise against asking for reduction of child
support payments as a penalty. ("Your honor, it is
not my intention to penalize the children"). If you
go for a reduction of child support make it a different
issue based on its own merits. The court may think
that that's all you're after (with a lot of help from
her and her attorney).
Problems:
1) Don't be surprised if she tries to hit you with an increase
in child support while she's in court anyway. If she's
already sucking you dry, you've nothing to loose.
2) If she can brainwash the children into saying that they
don't want to see you, then the court may not uphold
the visitation orders.
3) A common defense by the ex is to accuse the father of
sexual abuse. Don't be surprised if this happens to you.
Be prepared to make her prove it (friends, relatives,
witnesses, etc).
4) The whole thing is very emotional, especially when
the children are with you. Try to keep the children
as far out if it as possible. You can't stop the ex
for spewing hate for you all over the children. You
can keep from doing the same when the children are
around you. It may be very difficult, but do it. Your
problems are between you and your ex not between you
and them. I cannot condemn the fathers who just dump
it all and walk away, but remember, it is the children's
right also to see and know you and have a male roll
model in their lives. There are many ways to be a
warrior. Sometimes the unseen battles are the hardest
of all to fight.
fred();
| T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 22.1 | what is "violation"?? | FSTVAX::BEAN | Attila the Hun was a LIBERAL! | Fri Apr 06 1990 15:09 | 38 |
What constitutes a "violation" of visitation rights?
I share "Joint Managing Conservatorship" of my children under the age
of 18, and their "principal place of residence" is with their mom, in
Texas. We share equally "all rights, privileges, duties, and powers"
of parents, but in the event of conflict, my "ex"s *equal* share is
more *equal* than mine, and her decision governs.
I find that she is "poisoning" my children's thoughts and feelings
towards me. This is not just my opinion, but the opinion of older
children, one of which still lives with her. They concur with me that
their mom is modifying the younger kids willingness to visit me, and in
fact hell will undoubtedly freeze over before they "want" to come and
visit me. She has managed to place the kids squarely between us, and
uses them as tools to "get back" at me. In her eyes, it is not
possible for the kids NOT to take sides...if they are not aligned WITH
her, they are against her and for me. In reality, my kids do not
condone the divorce...and wish it hadn't happened. But, the older ones
accept it and are trying, invoking her wrath in the process, to be
friendly and positive with me. She rebukes them with statements like
"how can you support him after what he has done to US/ME/THE FAMILY".
After my visit with the kids last week, (I went to Texas to see them),
I am even more convinced than ever, that she will never "allow" them to
leave to visit me. She will convince them that they
shouldn't/can't/won't, or whatever...and prevent it from happening.
My son Patrick, aged 20 at the time, came to visit me last July, to
attend my wedding. His mother told him that if he did, not to bother
coming home. he came anyway (much to his credit), but on the morning
of my wedding day, finally succumbing to her will, and I had to take
him to the airport. If Patrick can't stand against her, none of them
can. (It took me plenty of years to escape, myself!)
So, is twisting your kids view of a parent, causing them to NOT WANT to
visit, considered a violation of visiting rights? What can be done?
tony
| |||||
| 22.2 | my openion | CSC32::HADDOCK | All Irk and No Pay | Fri Apr 06 1990 17:36 | 20 |
If you can prove that she is "brainwashing" the kids, you could
probably make a case for violation of visitation in court.
Unfortunately this will probably be very hard to do. If he
children are willing to decline visitation, the courts have
been very reluctant to force them to go.
About the only chance you might have is if:
1) The older children are willing to stand up for you in court.
(Which doesn't look likely in this case).
2) File for change of custody and requeset an evaluation by
social services and a psychiatric evaluation of the children,
your ex, and yourself, and hope that the evaluation turns up
something you can use.
3) Stay in touch, leave the door open, and hope the children
will come to their own conclusion some day.
fred();
| |||||
| 22.3 | be patient | POCUS::NORDELL | Mon Apr 09 1990 13:47 | 9 | |
I know it is hard and doesn't make up for the time now, but be patient.
If you are lucky your children will get away from the clutches of
your "ex" and become their "own person", like I did and see both
sides of the sitation and make a "grown up" choice.
It may have seemed like a setback when your son left before your
wedding, but baby-steps lead to giant steps and he is only 20.
He will mature and become "his own person" some day. I know it!
| |||||
| 22.4 | SIVA::MACDONALD | Tue Apr 17 1990 12:38 | 21 | ||
Yes hang in there by all means. I myself am thankful that me ex and I
do not use the kids as weapons, but I have seen it happen to my
brother. He lives an VT and his ex and two kids live in MA. He has
not seen either of them for at least five years or more. Every time he
went to see them it was a battle which he finally gave up. His ex and
her parents would verbally abuse him in front of his kids. Once he
actually had to call the local police when they would not let him have
the kids. It was nice that they strongly suggested that they let him
have the kids.
Anyway I maintain that raising kids like that backfires more often than
not. People, and children are no different, do not like to be
controlled and told who to love and who not to love. My guess is that
kids raised this way by a bitter, angry ex will likely end up resenting
that parent and making their own attempt to contact the other parent.
If the other parent is the scum bag they were told about, then they
will see that for themselves, and if not, well....
fwiw,
Steve
| |||||