| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 123.1 | Men are people too ! | CEODEV::FAULKNER | Mr Manners | Wed Jul 01 1987 15:40 | 2 |
| RIGHT ON !!!!!!! Alfred, I second that emotion.
|
| 123.3 | eagles are people too | CEODEV::FAULKNER | Mr Manners | Wed Jul 01 1987 15:55 | 3 |
| obviously the eagle is buckin for the male rep spot.
|
| 123.4 | Not forced to admit women... | ULTRA::BUTCHART | | Wed Jul 01 1987 15:57 | 13 |
| re .0:
I wasn't aware that any of the recent clubs were being forced to
admit women. All they have to do is give up selling liquor and
food to non-members on a commercial basis. The reason most of them
caved in is that they were not really private. Their operation
as a semi-public restaurant subsidized the operation of the club.
If I understand correctly, a private club funded completely by the
members is still quite possible for those who really need to "get
away".
/Dave
|
| 123.5 | | VCQUAL::THOMPSON | Noter at Large | Wed Jul 01 1987 16:09 | 8 |
| RE: .2 I think we are basically in agreement. My point is that
to be for a woman only anything and not to be for a men only
that same thing is hypocrisy. I'd like to see people agree
that men and women both need their own "space". So far I have
little to indicate that women think that men need their own
space.
Alfred
|
| 123.9 | | VCQUAL::THOMPSON | Noter at Large | Wed Jul 01 1987 16:56 | 27 |
| .7> -< Is this some sort of internalized mass guilt trip? >-
On the part of women? or men?
.7> When women are admitted into "male only" clubs, how many
.7> of them immediately set out to totally disrupt the activities
.7> and make it impossible for men to ever have a moment's peace
.7> again?
The serious answer is all women who are admitted into "male only"
clubs disrupt the activities and make it impossible for men ever
to be apart from women. Any woman who enters a male only club has
by that very action destroyed the old definition of the club.
RE: Some women actually saying that they don't want men in WOMANNOTES.
I am well aware that it is only a small minority of women who are
calling for a women only conference. Those women don't bother me.
Assuming that they would also support a men only conference. Do
they? Or are they hypocrites? The other women, who don't actively
promote a women only file, who don't denounce the idea of a woman
only file. Would they sit quietly by while a men only conference
was suggested or would they cry discrimination? Since they are sitting
quietly by (no one is yelling sex discrimination in WOMANNOTES)
I have to assume that they do not consider the idea discrimination.
I do wonder how they'd feel about a men only conference.
Alfred
|
| 123.11 | | VCQUAL::THOMPSON | Noter at Large | Wed Jul 01 1987 17:11 | 9 |
| > So why not start one Alfred ??? if a title is a problem ...
Because I like my job and I firmly believe that opening a
restricted to men only conference would be harmful to my staying
part of the salary continuation plan. I don't believe that a
woman only conference would run into that problem. Thus my
complaint.
Alfred
|
| 123.12 | male support groups? | ULTRA::GUGEL | Spring is for rock-climbing | Wed Jul 01 1987 18:06 | 19 |
| I think a men's only conference run the same way as womannotes would
be fine, if its members felt it was of value to be run that way.
Here are some of the things I *would* object to: A Pascal conference,
for example, that was for men only. I might *need* some of that
information and I will have been restricted unnecessarily so! The
same goes for a sports, work-related, or any other general interest
conference.
Do men want a men-only conference to discuss their feelings,
experiences as men, relationships, or whatever-else-is-on-your-mind,
like womannotes? If so, I say go for it. *I* can respect that.
BTW, aren't male support groups starting to pop up? Men are trying
to learn together how to have better relationships with their spouses,
children, friends, nowadays. I think this men-only space is an
excellent idea in this respect.
-Ellen
|
| 123.14 | | STUBBI::B_REINKE | the fire and the rose are one | Wed Jul 01 1987 18:57 | 5 |
| re .9
Alfred, Why - just becuase I do not prefer a woman only notes file
- should I feel obliged to protest every time a woman says she
wants a woman only file?
Bonnie
|
| 123.15 | | CALLME::MR_TOPAZ | | Wed Jul 01 1987 19:24 | 9 |
| A question, specifically to Ellen G and Suzanne C, but also to
anyone else who would not object to a men-only conference:
Would you object to a conference open only to white people?
If so, how do you explain objecting to race-basded membership
restrictions but not gender-based restrictions?
--Mr Topaz
|
| 123.16 | I second Don's question | VCQUAL::THOMPSON | Noter at Large | Wed Jul 01 1987 20:13 | 8 |
| RE: .14 Bonnie, you miss state my point. If you do not prefer
a woman only notes file but have no problem with it (ie do
not consider it unfair discrimination) then you should not
feel the need to protest. On the other hand, if you do believe
it is discrimination then you have the obligation to speak out
against it as you would any other discrimination.
Alfred
|
| 123.17 | that is covered inphantasy.note | CEODEV::FAULKNER | Mr Manners | Wed Jul 01 1987 20:59 | 3 |
| re.15
define "white"
|
| 123.18 | Hmmmmm | ULTRA::GUGEL | Spring is for rock-climbing | Wed Jul 01 1987 21:33 | 9 |
| re .15:
Interesting question. I know I would not object to a black
people-only conference, but offhand I cannot see any purpose behind
a white people-only conference. I outlined the conditions I think
would be okay for a men-only conference. I can't come up with any
for a white-only conference.
-Ellen
|
| 123.19 | on womannotes | STUBBI::B_REINKE | the fire and the rose are one | Wed Jul 01 1987 22:29 | 37 |
| 123.20 | | NISYSI::KING | Feb.5.1988 | Thu Jul 02 1987 12:37 | 6 |
| Al, how come as I read the notes listing I see some private
conferences? What is the difference?
REK
Didn't I put something like this in women notes?????
|
| 123.21 | The ULTIMATE Solution | JETSAM::HANAUER | Mike... Bicycle~to~Ice~Cream | Thu Jul 02 1987 16:03 | 6 |
| Each person in Digital should have her/his own notes file.
This would eliminate the glut of unsolvable problems which are
encountered when people exchange ideas.
~Mike
|
| 123.24 | See Steve shaking his head.... | QUARK::LIONEL | We all live in a yellow subroutine | Sat Jul 04 1987 15:12 | 32 |
| What seems to have been missed by those advocating conferences
restricted to only a certain class of people (be it by gender, race,
sexual preference, hair color, whatever) is that the conferences
exist on computer systems and the network of Digital Equipment
Corporation. Any attempt to create a conference where a certain
class of employees was systematically excluded would be stopped
cold by the corporation. And for good reason, in my view.
Yes, there exist restricted conferences. I am not aware of any
of these that systematically deny membership to a certain group
of employees; the restriction is to increase the privacy of the
contents of the conference. For example, the restricted conference
for gay Digital employees warmly admits noters of all sexual
preferences; the restricted nature of the conference discourages
malicious browsers.
There is indeed an analogy between DEC conferences and "clubs" that
receive some form of public support. In neither case is discrimination
tolerated.
Personally, I will strongly object to any attempt to create a
men-only or women-only conference. I see no place for such a thing
on our network, or anywhere else for that matter.
This topic started out on an acceptable topic - mainly a discussion
in general of men wanting to have their own space. It seems
to degenerated once again into a discussion of another conference
and certain noters. If someone wishes to restart the topic along
the original line, I welcome it. Further replies to this topic
are disabled.
Steve
|