Conference quark::mennotes-v1

       re .0:
       
       Is it you, the article, or your interpretation of the article
       that appears to equate "pretty" women with "dumb" women?
       
       As an aside, I've been wondering why smart women like dumb
       men.  Is it because women who hold powerful position like to
       be seen/associated with Schwarzenegger types?  Or is it that
       a smart man is too much for a woman to handle when she is feeling
       stressed out?  
       
       Or are the questions in .0 as dumb (because of the implicit
       generalizations) as those in the previous paragraph?
       
       --Mr Topaz

        Re: .0
    
    	I think that dumb women are alot more relaxed and receptive
    	to new ideas and techniques, whereas smart women are always
    	asking stupid questions like; how come we gotta wear these silly
    	outfits, or whats that hanging from your ceiling, or whats that
    	Video camera for.  Smart, power crazed guys like myself just
    	don't need that kinda hassle.
    
    	Jake

    
    Smart men + dumb women = 1 very short relationship.
    
    I consider myself to be smart (no comments from the peanut gallery!)
    and could not consider a relationship with someone who did not possess
    an approximately equal intelligence.
    If I wanted to impress people with my partner, I would definately
    prefer a partner who could carry on an intelligent conversation.
    Intelligence can be very appealing.  
    
    Looks are important! So is intelligence!  Beauty is a fleeting
    possession, yet intelligence survives.
    
    I would take offense if you are implying that beauty and intelligence
    cannot not be found in one person, as your equation seems to suggest.
    
    		Intelligence + Beauty = My kind of woman
    		Intelligence > Beauty/Dumb
    
    Then again, this is only my opinion.  I am sure there are those
    men just looking for a nice ass, but that particular behavior, to
    me denotes a lack of intelligence, n'est pas?
    Smart men/Dumb women is an anomaly at best!
    
    Mean Gene!
    

    Oops! Clarification....
    
    It was the article that equated beatiful with dumb, not me!
    (In fact I found their assumption that beautiful women may
    play dumb to catch a 'powerful' man offensive...but that
    wasn't what I wanted to discuss by starting this note).
    

    I regret that the assumption that smart men equates to power. Smart
    [intelligent] people does not need a dumb person around them to
    have to think for them.
    
    Gary Hart got a Floosy and immediately self destruct his career.
    I believe that charismatic men attract woman who thinks that these
    people can "bootstrap" their life into a fantesy; reality, Hart
    needed a steady woman with him to help him through the rough times
    when the world is falling around him.
    
    Ronnie has a very traditional supportive woman with him as does
    Gary Hart.
    
    Queen Elizabeth has a very supportive man with her; neither need
    a Floosy to destroy their relation. One of my ex female friends
    used her sexuality to get her way when it was convenient, I had
    thought that if we work at it, she would turn it around to let her
    intelligence shine; alas, the basic, easy approach won out. Her
    man this day, a power grubbing army major.
    
    Who needs a dumb woman/man when the walls are falling around you?
    
    /cal

    
    I used to think that people wanted mates of similar 
    intellectual MIPS rating. What I see often contradicts
    this.                                      
    
    Often I get the impression that women would like someone
    controllable, but not necessarily 'dumb'.
    
    When I see some couples together, my reaction is 'How does
    a zhlub like that get an angel like her..?'
    

    asked the male member of this household he said: does not have to
    come home and "compete" like in the office.he said some men would
    like to go home and relax not have to be intellectually stimulating.
    
    kelly

    
         Sounds like that's the gist of it.  Some guys don't like to
    be constantly challenged.  Perhaps the ability to say something
    incorrect, without being corrected, is important.
    
                                Greg
    

    re .7
    
    This is true enough. Men do react strangely when confronted
    by new life realities. There is an unconcious desire sometimes
    to test a relationship before becoming fully immersed. But 
    it is more acceptable (to the man) to mask this behind a cloak
    of 'females out to get me'. 
    A fixed eye-stare and some sharp words by the woman usually 
    bring a break or a bond, depending on circumstances.

    re .0 How do they define "smart" men ? Or "dumb" women ?

    RE: .11	Good question! Some of the smartest (my opinion) people
    		I know didn't finish high school, yet their wisdom about
    		life constantly impresses me. 
    
    		Sounds like societal labeling to me. If you're successful
    		then you must be smart. If you're a housewife, you can't
    		be. Well, that kind of thinking burns my fanny!
    
    		To answer the question anyhow, It seems to me that you've
    		got to be damn insecure if you want to be with someone
    		who always makes you look like an einstein.

    re .14, Suzanne, I was interested in your example about coming
    home to a person who is not being intellectually stimulated...
    
    one of the examples in the article was a man who was a doctor who
    had taken up with an air headed girl friend because the intellectual
    demands of his wife who was home with a new baby were too much for
    him! (that is my definition of a creep, by the way!).
    
    In general, the 'smart' men described in the article were either
    politicians like Gary Hart or the Kennedys, or successful business
    men, doctors, or lawyers.
    
    Me I am not so sure that any of them are what I would consider
    truely 'smart' in the broader sense of the word. :-)
    
    Bonnie

    .0 brings to mind an old limbo song of the 60s; If you want to be
    happy for the rest of your life...
    
    Seriously, could this outward manifestation actually be an indication
    of dominant/submissive roles? The real problem here is the perception
    that if one partner is attractive and the other is not, then one
    of  them is 'dumb' and one is 'smart'. I have encountered the situation
    described in .0, where the 'pretty' one is an airhead, but I have
    also encountered the reverse. There are other factors such as; the
    less attractive person may have a nice personality, the less
    intelligent person has a nice personality, the more intelligent/
    more attractive one has a lowered self esteem and figures this is
    the best that they can do. The article is a generalization that
    should offend the sensibilities of any intelligent person!
    
    Bob Mc

    re -1:
    
    That's sort of what I was thinking too.  How about the intelligent
    woman who "acts dumb" (my mother, for example) and therefore
    her husband has no trouble controlling or dominating the relationship.
    
    	-Ellen

    re.13
    thats the answer i got when i asked a man.
    i actually did not think he would take the question seriously.
    he said he has been invovled with both"types" of women and has been
    quite happy with both.
    
    kelly

    
         I think 'dumb & smart' are also being confused with 'passive
    & agressive'.  I know female halves of couples who behave passively
    in order to accord their husbands a measure of dominance, yet who
    are able to compete (actively) with those outside of the relationship.
    As much as we may wish for it, I have yet to see a truly balanced
    relationship.
    
                                  Greg
    

re: .20,.21

If that's the examples they used then I think that they are using `smart' and 
`dumb' in an extremely imprecise way.  Donna Rice came across to me a an 
intelligent, attractive woman with bad judgment.  Gary Hart came across as an 
arrogant, whiny, crybaby.  Even people who were close to Gary Hart were quoted 
as saying that they couldn't believe he was being so `stupid'.  Smart man 
indeed.

Generally, I think that it has more to do with wanting to avoid responsibility 
than wanting to avoid intellectual stimulation.  If you keep track of the 
amount of time at work that you are truly being intellectually stimulated, I'd 
be surprised if it's more than 10% of the time.  But even if we're talking 
about the middle manager sitting at a desk mindlessly filling out forms and 
revising his budget for the 345th time, he's still RESPONSIBLE (male pronoun 
used intentionally since it's what the base note talks about).  He goes home 
to a family and, you guessed it, more responsibility.

But the stereotypical dumb but sexy mistress represents release from 
responsibility; in fact this type of affair represents an irresponsible act -- 
a rebellion AGAINST responsibility.  It's the same type of man who wants a 
wife from a culture in which the wife is totally submissive, runs the house, 
and all the husband's responsibility is to provide (which in our culture means 
bring home a paycheck).

The other factor is that powerful people often have delusions of 
infallibility; they can't do anything wrong, but if they do, they won't get 
caught, but if they get caught, they can explain it away.

Clay

    RE: .0 I haven't read any of the replies but I'd like to
    reply to .0.
    
    I heard a saying once that "First class people hire first class
    people. Second class people hire third class people." I think
    that point 2 in the base note relates to this well. Only a dumb
    or insecure man would have a dumb woman for a wife/SO.
    
    I think that my wife is smarter then I am. I don't see any disadvantage
    to that condition. In fact, I think it helps me a lot. A dumb wife
    wouldn't be able to understand or help nearly as much.
    
    		Alfred

    re: .24, .25
    
    If FIRST class people hire FIRST class people, and SECOND class
    people hire THIRD class people, WHO hired the SECOND class person?
    
    I think Art Linkletter (not the DECcie Linkletter) said it best
    when he said: "From the mouths of babes come what their parents
    say".
    
    re: .0 et al
    
    I've only met one "dumb" woman on my life. One couldn't hear or
    speak, but made more money than me (at that time); but eventually
    learned to speak very well.
    
    Later in life I learned an enigmatic puzzle which still confuses
    me: "Why do so many sensitive, charming, beautiful women marry far
    below their 'true' worth; then spend the rest of their lives
    complaining about it ?" ;^)
    
    Perhaps, another observation parially answers that question: "There
    seems to be more people who stay all winter in Mass and complain
    about the weather than there are who go south and enjoy Floridas
    'good weather'.
    
    Ce la vie'. Lifes misteries abound all around
    
    Bob+3
    

    
    

    The only reason smart men go out with dumb women is because of there
    EGO.  They do not want anyone looking better than them.

    
    
    
   A man asked the Lord, "Why did you make women sooo soft?" and the Lord
replied, "So YOU would like them", and then the man asked, "Why did you
make women sooo beautiful?", and again the Lord replied, "So YOU would like
them", and continuing the man asked, "But why did you make them so stupid?"
and the Lord replied, "So they would like YOU" !
    

    re.28
    What about the rest of us ?

    
    Re: .29
    
    >    What about the rest of us ?

	God made dumb animals!
    
    
    	Jake

    re: .28
    
    Is that why I'm so stupid ?
    
    re: .29
    
    Theres plenty to go around ...........  ;^)

    re: .29 & .31
    
    I didn't mean to offend anyone. It is a joke that a man sent me
    and I thought a little humor in here would be nice. Evidently
    I thought wrong, and there is no place for humor in Mennotes
    either. 
    
    Sorry.....If you wish I will delete the entry.
    I don't want it to start a bashing session between men and
    women...there is too much of that already going on in another
    conference.
    
    kathie

    No, don't delete it. I liked it. 
    And also, yes a little humor is needed.
    Lighten up you all!
    	-fjp-

    
    I liked it too..told my girlfriend and SHE liked it!
    
    
    
    			Si

    re: .32, --> re: .31 --- re: .28
    
    No No don't delete it !!!!!!!!!
    
    Its hilarious , really ........... :^)
    
    Bob+3

    
    Don't you dare deleate it, it does fit a whole bunch of us  ;-)

       Yeah, *some* of us!    :-)
    
                                                    Russ

    Some women are dumb. Some men are dumb. A fact of life.
    
    I think men perceive women to be dumb because of different values or ways
    of thinking, if you will. For example, my wife can (and does) go on
    endlessly about the curtains she wants to buy. I think this is dumb. She
    on the other hand looks at me with pity when I start expounding on how
    stupid such and such a coach was for calling a certain play.
    
    Maybe a poor example but men and women *do* think differently. We have to
    accept this in a non-judgemental way, I'm much better at this now than I
    was in my early twenties. Sometimes I wonder how my wife has put up with
    me for 12 years.....

    The test of how smart a person is how much they agree with you.
    
    Hanging around "dumb" people is a pain, no matter what they look like.
    
    mca
    

  >>  The test of how smart a person is how much they agree with you.
    
    First of all, this isn't a complete sentence.

  >>  Hanging around "dumb" people is a pain, no matter what they look like.

    How can you make such a blanket statement?  Incredible.
    Hanging around with "smart" people can be an unbelievable pain
    at times too (no matter what they look like).    

    Yeah.  Dum peeple got rites to, y'know.
    
    At leased I think we do.

    sometimes hanging around note-files is more painfull than hanging
    around either smart or dumb people.

  >>  sometimes hanging around note-files is more painfull than hanging
  >>  around either smart or dumb people.

	Well, yeah, because it's like hanging around smart AND dumb
	people at the same time.