Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    Cats are ok ,I'll never even pretend to like yappy little
    dogs....hate them.
    
    ...Robin

    I set note 88.1 to HIDDEN due to the fact that it was obscene. I found
    it obscene and other noters have complained about the wording of the
    message. 
    
    Please, use care in your choice of language for NOTES.  Notes files
    in Digital are world-wide and have a very wide readership.
    
    
    To readers of MENNOTES: Please do not interpret my actions (setting
    three notes HIDDEN in the past hour) as censorship, as that is not what
    I intend.  Public notes files, however, must maintain a set of basic
    standards if they're to remain available.  I hate censorship as much as
    anyone else.  I also would like to see MENNOTES, along with other NOTES
    files, to remain available now and in the future.
    
    	-- Jeff Coffler (co-moderator of MENNOTES)

re .0:

I have kept a cat for the last 9 years. The women in my life during that 
time have not liked my cat very much, in fact they said I paid far too much
attention to it.

In balance I would say that men and women either like cats or they don't 
and a few may not know either way. Lets not generalise.

Dave.

        As Dave Kerrell says, there are cat-lovers, cat-haters, and
        don't-cares among both sexes.  Both extremes tend to be fairly
        fanatical about it... but that's true of most any matter
        of taste.  With cats, perhaps the cat-hating extreme is a
        bit more visible than with most other dislikes... largely
        because cats show such a fanatical fondness for aggravating
        them (every cat lover enjoys telling stories about how cats
        unerringly go for the person in the room who most severely
        dislikes cats).
        
        My wife is a semi-fanatical cat lover.  I'm a fairly fanatical
        don't-care (:-)).  I kinda like the little fur balls, and
        as cats go ours is pretty nice.  On the other hand, I don't
        really appreciate having cats around the house full time.
        I feel the same way about dogs.  Or kids, for that matter...
        
        	/dave

    I put in .1 as obscene since .0 IS OBSCENE.
    it is an insult to intelligence.
    what has it got to do with masculinity?
    

re .7:


>    I put in .1 as obscene since .0 IS OBSCENE.
>    it is an insult to intelligence.
>    what has it got to do with masculinity?
    
I didn't see what you put in .1 Kerry so I won't judge but .0 was not an 
insult to intelligence. A question was asked by someone who was unsure 
about something and *wanted* to know, I see that as an intelligent thing to 
do.

We can't all be as wise as you so have a little patience.

Dave.

    i prefer cats to dogs my last roommate has a dog and you have to
    constantly show it atention or it would give you theses sad eyes
    that would break your heart. my new roommate has a cat who fell
    in love with me when she knew i could give a mean scratch in front
    of the ears (she loves that) whats cool about cats are they tend
    to know when your busy and won't hassles you. the only problem is
    i'm allergic to this cats fur, so i will give her a good brushing
    about twice a day so she won't shed in the apt. after i play with
    her i alway wash my hand to keep from getting the reaction from
    her fur. she's a fun cat, and at least i don't talk to it in english
    like my roommate does, i do imitate it when she's upset about an
    empty food dish, she knows she's being mocked.

    I pretend to hate cats but I sort of like them. I didn't like
    them at all until we got one (now two). They are a lot less
    trouble then dogs (or kids).
    
    		Alfred

    Like Alfred, I pretend to hate cats too but sort of like them. I never
    liked them much before, but after the opportunity to take care of one
    for an extended period of time, they aren't all bad (most are, but not
    ALL) :-)
    
    I still prefer dogs, though.  Dogs are much better company.  When I
    spoke to the cat, the cat looked at me like I was a fool (perhaps
    rightfully so!).  When I've had dogs, they seem to listen.  Besides,
    when was the last time you saw somebody hiking with their cat or
    jogging with their cat?
    
    What I dislike most about cats: Some shed VERY badly.  I think I got
    particularly fed up when I found cat hair in my clean clothes, between
    my sheets, in my truck - and get this - in my *FOOD*.  I think the food
    was the last straw.
    
    	-- Jeff

    I like all animals, except for most insects and some disgusting
    things like slugs.  Although, there are some nice slugs around.
    
    I like cats because they are sooooooo soft.  They cuddle and purr
    and are fun to play with.
    
    I like (and own) dogs.  They are easy to train, very affectionate,
    and don't hold a grudge.
    
    I'm not crazy about the hair but its a trade-off.
    
    My wife hates cats but *loves* dogs.
    
    Spence

        Oh, yes.  We've got a really cute Silver-shaded Persian.
        In case you don't know, that's a long-hair.  Very long hair.
        Very soft, very fluffy, and she sheds about a cat and a half
        worth of fur every day: more, if she gets near anything with
        a dark color (she *lives* for that opportunity... she's usually
        not overly affectionate, but if you come near her with dark
        clothes, forget it!)
        
        She's been trained to stay away from the kitchen (the only
        thing that cat *ever* learned to do!), so at least the cat
        hair there (and thus in the food) is quite a bit lower than
        anywhere else in the house.
        
        On the other hand, cat hair travels well... Muppet's hair
        (we named her Muppet before we even bought her, 'cause there's
        just no other description for her... Jim Henson himself couldn't
        have designed a cuter ball of fluff) has certainly been many
        places she hasn't...
        
        	/dave

    re: .12
    
    you are right about most cats, but just try to take a walk *without*
    my cats.  I tried to yesterday, and was followed by 2 cats and preceded
    by the 6 month old kitten!
    
                 Carol

    I'm a fanatical cat lover.  I love cats more than anything else
    on earth (with the exception of my daughter & my mother :) )
    
    But, I have girlfriends who hate cats and have known men who love
    them.  My father loved cats and at one point when I was a kid we
    had 12 of them.  My mother liked them alright but would never have
    allowed that many on her own.  Luckily, we lived in the country
    and had 5 acres of land.
    
    My ex-husband used to often accuse me of liking the cats more than
    him.  When he started saying it, it wasn't true, but a few years
    later on it was right.  I got rid of a poodle puppy once because
    he hated it, and he made the comment that now he just had to work
    on the cats.  I said, don't make me pick between them and you. 
    You won't like the choice and I meant it.  I still have one of the
    cats (my blue-point Siamese) and he's been gone for 2 years.
    
    Two famous male writers who loved cats were Mark Twain and Ernest
    Hemingway, who supposedly left an estate in Key West where his cats
    and their decendants have to be taken care of forever.  (Sort of
    makes up for his stupid ideas about bull-fighting.)
    
    Lorna
    

I love _all_ animals.  I wouldn't say I'm fanatical about cats, though; kittens
perhaps!  There's nothing cuter than a kitten, but there's nothing more in-
dependent than a cat ( except perhaps a woman?  ;-)   Just kidding! ).


I do think I like dogs much more than cats, mostly due to being very close to
my last dog.  I've never been that close to any cat, as they generally don't
allow it.  Cats love you when they're hungry, or want to go outside, or when
_they_ want to, but dogs love you all the time and are extremely loyal.  And
you can call them and they'll come!


I also think it's hard to generalize between which sex loves which type of
animal more, but if there _is_ any trend I would believe that women tend to
like cats more and men tend to like dogs more.  When you consider that cats
are often thought of as being female in nature, it makes you wonder just a
little doesn't it?


But in the end, each likes according to his/her tastes, right?


Brian

I appreciate cats as art objects--they are beautiful to look at.  But I
hate them.  *HATE* them!!  Cats take and take and take and give nothing.
And that hair!  It flies everywhere (unlike dog hair).  Ever visit a person
who owns a cat?  No matter how neat they are, you walk out with cat hair
on you.  And yes, it does end up in food (yeech).

While I'm at it, I would like to add that cats are NOT clean.  Not having
visible dirt on oneself does not make one clean.  Cats will go about anywhere,
and then lick themselves all over like some kind of popsickle.  Who wants
an animal covered with spit?!  "Clean?"  Cats love to sit there and lick their
little butts.  Give me an animal you can wash.

(BTW: Before anyone starts up, cats and dogs do NOT have antiseptic saliva.
That is an age-old health myth.)

Oh yes.  Cats just love to jump on tables, chairs, even kitchen counters.
Dogs don't do that.  I love dogs.

John M.

P.S.  I have a TON of cat abuse stories (that is, how they love to abuse
*me.*  I hate cats (except two) but would NEVER harm one).

    
    I agree with that vote for dogs.  Cats, contrary to some of your
    beliefs, don't take such good care of themselves.  Look at it this
    way: You step on a cat and it's history; you step on a doberman
    and you're history.  I also like animals who are smart enough to
    know their own names after a while (ever call a cat).  Cats just
    use humans for their own benefit.  Have you ever heard of a cat
    pulling his master out of a burning building?  Forget domestic cats
    and get a cheetah (four-wheel drive cat).  That being inconvenient,
    get a DOG.
    
                           Bubba
    

    I think it is now well established that you cannot generalize
    that "men hate cats".  One should take this as another lesson
    that you cannot generalize ANYTHING about men (except that they
    are male, I suppose).
    
    Personally, I love cats - all cats.  I've yet to find one I didn't
    like.  I recall walking into the "Meow Motel", a motel for cats
    in Amesbury, MA, run by a kindly elderly couple, Roy and Carol
    Cobb.  Mr. Cobb was pointing out various cats whom had been 
    described by their owners as "vicious" and "antisocial" - these
    very same cats were rubbing along the sides of the cages, purring,
    and would lick my ear when I held them.  The moral is that a cat
    will treat you with love if you show it love in return.
    
    I've grown up with both dogs and cats in my family.  I prefer cats,
    but most dogs are ok.  I find I get along better with larger dogs.
    
    I don't want to see this note turn into a "cat vs. dog" battle.
    
    					Steve
    

    In regard to cats not knowing their names, people who think that
    just haven't bothered to notice.  My Siamese, Jade, always comes
    running to me when call her, as does her son, Frodo.  They both
    know their names.
    
    With cats, you get out of them what you are willing to put in. 
    I've gotten more love and affection from the cats I've had than
    I could ever put in words.  I agree with Steve Lionel that I've
    never met a cat I didn't like either.  I always pick up cats, and
    hug them and pet them, and I haven't gotten scratched in years.
    
    As for Dobermans, I have no interest in having a pet that is willing
    to devour half the human race on my command.  Sorry, but I couldn't
    resist saying that.  Now, I agree let's not make this a dog vs.
    cat note.  Dogs are like people, some are nice, some aren't.  But,
    all cats are nice.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    I think the author of this note must have read Corky T.s "tails
    of Chester the Molester". For those of you new notes readers who
    haven't got the foggiest idea of the reference contact me and Ill
    tell you about it since its too long to get involved in here.
    
     I was one of those dog only men up until about 12 years or so
    ago when my now EX brought in this poor scrawny cat. The poor 
    thing had been through about six different people that couldn't keep
    it for one reason or another. I really didn't want a cat, I wanted
    a dog, but in my weakness for small critters, I agreed to letting
    it stay. I have never regretted it since. My cat (no way was I going
    to let my EX have her when she left) really opened my eyes as to
    how great a good cat can be. She is so cool, in essence I have
    both her and a female Beagle, and the two of them are the female
    equivalent to Garfeild and Odie.
    
    There are both good and bad animals, both dogs and cats. I really
    believe its a through back on the owner as to the nature of the
    animal. True this is not always the case, but in most instances
    it holds true. The only reason I can see for any person not liking
    any particular animal is having a bad experience with one before
    hand. As a side point Ive broken off relations with some women 
    when they didn't like my pets and wanted me to get rid of them.
    We're a package deal, me and the critters, and it will stay that
    way up to the point they pass on from old age.
    
                                        Bob B 

    
    	I've had my cat since 1975.  My cat is great, friendly, sleeps
    	alot, playful sometimes.  CATS are smart.  More than I give
    	them credit for.  I think Spence hit the magic words, in
    	dogs don't hold grudges, which I believ he is implying that
    	that cats do.  My cat will hold a grudge for three or four days,
    	and if you fall asleep, and your arm hangs over the couch,
    	she'll wake you with a swift bite.  As far as kicking a cat,
    	the kicker could probably only pick on a cat 8*)....
    
    			Mike
    

    Cats are worthless (except as objects d'art).  If you were the size
    of a mouse, they wouldn't think twice about eating you, even if
    they knew who you were. 
    
    There is no point in turning this into a DOG vs.CAT note, as there
    is no contest.  The dogs win.
    
    
    John M.

    cats are wonderful... incredibly sensual!
    
    and once you've shown 'em where the john is, they require no training!
    
    /bruce     V
              :-)
               ^

    re .18
    I almost fell out of my chair laughing, but...
    
>   And that hair!  It flies everywhere (unlike dog hair).
    
    I never realized just how much a dog sheds until we got a white
    puppy on a brown carpet.  There is white hair *everywhere*.  Do
    you mean that cat hair floats in the air.  I know cat hair is much
    softer than *most* dog hair.
    
>    Oh yes.  Cats just love to jump on tables, chairs, even kitchen counters.
>    Dogs don't do that.  I love dogs.
    
    The same white dog stands about 12 inches at the shoulder.  She
    makes it a habit of jumping onto and walking around on the dining
    room table.  She loves to open mail.  We're thinking of clearing
    off the table and smearing it with vegetable oil so that when she
    jumps up, she'll slide off the other side.  But then, it might turn
    into a game.  (Hey, Brandy, see what I can do?)
    
    We just got a new black lab puppy, my wife wanted him.  I may use
    this as leverage to finally get myself a cat. ;-)
    
    Spence

re: .27

Unlike dog hair, cat hair flies through the air--with the greatest of ease!
If you have a cat and an air conditioner, take a look at the filter sometime:
Cat hair!

I will never own a cat unless it comes with a can of Nair.

Don't forget, dogs too can be potty trained.  As for keeping your pup off
the table, the trick is to put crinkley plastic on the table top (they don't
like walking on the stuff).

Remember: a man's best friend is a dog.

Something to ponder:  Women who gossip are called "cats."  Cats are referred
to as "she."  There is a third analogy, but prudence stays my hand.

John M.

    Hi John :-)
    
    (if you don't stop bashing cats I am going to send you one of
    our puppies to be :-})
    
    There is a hairless cat - there was a picture of it in the paper
    last winter - it kinda looks like the evil version of the gremlins...
    
    Bonnie

    I can appreciate that different people have different tastes in
    pets.  I prefer cats to dogs, although I do like some dogs, and
    I would never go so far as to say that I "hate" dogs.  For that
    reason, I have always had my suspicions about cat haters.  Why do
    some people HATE cats?  Here are some possible theories:
    
    1) Cat haters have authoritarian, possibly fascist, tendencies.
    Consider that cats don't take any crap from anyone, whereas dogs are
    extremely obedient.  Cat haters apparently only feel comfortable in the
    presence of something they can order around, and resent the fact that
    cats obviously do not fit the bill.  Male cat haters probably also
    resent feminism, and feel strong needs to dominate their wives. 
    
    2) Cat haters are pathological.  This theory is based on the fact that
    cats are cute, lovable, and extremely cuddly. 
    
    3) Cat haters have a stronger affinity for small rodents than they do
    for humans.  It has been pointed out that cats would probably attack
    any mouse-sized humans that they happened to run across.  Of course, 
    there has never been a mouse-sized human, but there are plenty of
    human-sized humans who have been attacked by dogs.  Ever hear of
    a guard cat?  Ever hear of the police using cats to subdue criminals?
    Ever hear of a mail carrier being bitten by a vicious cat, or a
    bicyclist being chased and bitten on the leg by a cat?  If this
    theory is correct, then cat haters have probably seen the movies
    WILLARD and BEN several times.
    
    4) Cat haters wish to see us return to the days of the bubonic plague.
    
    5) Cat haters do not like to have soft, furry creatures cuddle up
    with them at night and purr affectionately, and resent the fact
    that there are millions of people who *do* derive innocent pleasure
    and enjoyment from cats.  So they insult that which they cannot
    understand, using words like "worthless".  Of course, cats are not
    at all worthless to the millions who feel the enjoyment and
    companionship that cats provide.
    
    So there you have it.  Which are they--fascists, sociopaths, rodents,
    disease-fanatics, or just plain resentful people?
    
    It doesn't really matter.  Nothing they can say can take away the
    pleasure I get from cats.                    
    
    --Mike

                        -< A bronx cheer to Dog haters >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I can appreciate that different people have different tastes in
    pets.  I prefer Dogs to Cats, although I do like some Cats, and
    I would never go so far as to say that I "hate" Cats.  For that
    reason, I have always had my suspicions about Dog haters.  Why do
    some people HATE Dogs?  Here are some possible theories:
    
    1) Dog haters have authoritarian, possibly fascist, tendencies.
    Consider that Dogs don't take any crap from anyone, whereas Cats are
    extremely obedient.  Dog haters apparently only feel comfortable in the
    presence of something they can order around, and resent the fact that
    Dogs obviously do not fit the bill.  Male Dog haters probably also
    resent feminism, and feel strong needs to dominate their wives. 
    
    2) Dog haters are pathological.  This theory is based on the fact that
    Dogs are cute, lovable, and extremely cuddly. 
    
    3) Dog haters have a stronger affinity for small rodents than they do
    for humans.  It has been pointed out that Dogs would probably attack
    any mouse-sized humans that they happened to run across.  Of course, 
    there has never been a mouse-sized human, but there are plenty of
    human-sized humans who have been attacked by Cats.  Ever hear of
    a guard Dog?  Ever hear of the police using Dogs to subdue criminals?
    Ever hear of a mail carrier being bitten by a vicious Dog, or a
    bicyclist being chased and bitten on the leg by a Dog?  If this
    theory is correct, then Dog haters have probably seen the movies
    WILLARD and BEN several times.
    
    4) Dog haters wish to see us return to the days of the bubonic plague.
    
    5) Dog haters do not like to have soft, furry creatures cuddle up
    with them at night and purr affectionately, and resent the fact
    that there are millions of people who *do* derive innocent pleasure
    and enjoyment from Dogs.  So they insult that which they cannot
    understand, using words like "worthless".  Of course, Dogs are not
    at all worthless to the millions who feel the enjoyment and
    companionship that Dogs provide.
    
    So there you have it.  Which are they--fascists, sociopaths, rodents,
    disease-fanatics, or just plain resentful people?
    
    It doesn't really matter.  Nothing they can say can take away the
    pleasure I get from Dogs.                    
    
    --Bubba

    Re .34
    
    If your intent was to criticize dog haters, then I applaud your
    effort.  The intent of my note, after all, was to condemn species
    bashing by the cat haters.  I suspect, however, that you somehow
    assumed that I am a dog hater, and you were attempting to belie
    a presumed double standard on my part.  If that is your intent,
    then I suggest you reread my first paragraph.
    
    I have met many cat haters, but never have I met a dog hater.  Perhaps
    they exist, but I presume they are rare.  I would be the first to agree
    that dogs serve many useful purposes in our society, even aside from
    their value to many people as pets.  I like animals, all sorts of
    animals.  That is why I resent cat hating so much. 

    Anyway, you have to put some thought into table-turning if you want it
    to make any sense at all.  All you did was do a mass substitute of
    "cat" for "dog", and "dog" for "cat", and as a result, statements
    1, 3, and 4 lose their context.  Examples:
    
    1 >Consider that Dogs don't take any crap from anyone, whereas Cats are
      >extremely obedient.
    
    Most people consider opposite to be the case.  This is one of the
    generally accepted differences between the personalities of cats and
    dogs. 
    
    2 >Dog haters are pathological.  This theory is based on the fact that
      >Dogs are cute, lovable, and extremely cuddly. 
    
    Many dogs *are* cute, lovable, and cuddly, so in this instance,
    your table turning makes a lot of sense.
        
    3 >Ever hear of a guard Dog?  Ever hear of the police using Dogs to subdue
      >criminals? Ever hear of a mail carrier being bitten by a vicious Dog,
      >or a bicyclist being chased and bitten on the leg by a Dog? 
    
    Yes, as a matter of fact, I have heard of each of those things.  As a
    bicyclist, I speak from personal experience. My version of these
    questions were rhetorical.  Your questions, however, have definite
    answers. 
    
    4 >Dog haters wish to see us return to the days of the bubonic plague.
    
    The cat has helped protect human beings from the diseases, such
    as bubonic plague, that are spread by rats.  This is, by the way,
    an example of why cats are not in any way "worthless".
        
    5 >Of course, Dogs are not at all worthless to the millions who feel the
      >enjoyment and companionship that Dogs provide. 
    
    Again, I totally agree.
    
    --Mike

    re .35
    
    Well, I come very close to being a dog-hater. I am often provoked
    to thoughts of extreme violence by much dog behavior. As I see it,
    however, the fault lies not with the dog, but with its owner. Most
    dogs that I have contact with are poorly trained. Dog owners seem
    to think that everyone should love to be chased, licked, jumped
    on, humped on and generally at the mercy of their dog's every whim.
    It often seems as if these dog owners think that dogs have more
    rights than people. I would feel more favorably disposed to dogs
    if only their owners would care enough about their fellow humans
    to properly train their animals, and enough about their dogs to
    adequately restrain them.
    
    /bruce

    
    Re: .35
    
         I was having fun while retaliating to a slightly unreasonable
    bias in your previous note.  Apparently it's humor only grazed your
    scalp.  The small dose of EDT substitutions was not meant to make
    sense any more than your obviously humor-intended note.
    
                               Bubba
    

    Re .37
    
    Well, my scalp is pretty hard to penetrate sometimes.  That's how
    I can get away with banging my head against the wall so much, I guess.
    
    --Mike                     

	Well I had been going to enter a humorous response but decided against
        it: I like both dogs and cats... each in a slightly different way.
        
        As for the rhetorical question about mail carriers being bitten
        by a cat: no I don't recall that but we had a cat (in Britain) that
        had a delightful trick of grabbing the mailman's finger with her
        fore-claws if he let them stray too far inside the flap of the letter
        slot.
        
        As for cats saving humanity from bubonic plague: nuts! Terriers are
        ratters (and kept in the yard for that purpose) cats are mousers
        (and kept in the house for that purpose).
        
        [oh well that last para is as close as I get to a :-) today]
        
        /. Ian .\

re .39:
        
>        As for cats saving humanity from bubonic plague: nuts! Terriers are
>        ratters (and kept in the yard for that purpose) cats are mousers
>        (and kept in the house for that purpose).
        
My cat caught and killed a large rat, should I take her to be analysed?

She also catches voles, shrews, birds, mice, spiders and various insects.

Dave.

    My cats catch rats - my dogs don't :-)

    
    	I have *not* read the 41 replies following 88.0.
    
    	I will just give my opinion of cats (implied: vs. dogs).
    
    	Cats are wonderful.  Dogs are stupid.  As some wit once said,
    'cats play chess, dogs play checkers'.
    
    	This has alot to do with Man's notion of the ideal mate.  Do
    you want someone who is subservient or independant? 
    
    	Women: Beware of men who prefer dogs.
    
    						,Karl

    
         Tell you what.  Let's put 'em in a room together, and keep
    the one that walks out after three days.
    
                                   Bubba
    

    .43:  I like this idea. 
    
    .42:  But I'm a woman and I prefer dogs, by far. Cats are only all
          right. Does this mean my husband should watch out????
    
    --bonnie
    

    $20 on Heathcliffe

    I'll take that bet.
    
    

    "Never tell me the odds!"  Han Solo.

    Da Cat gets my vote!
    
    Bj

    This idea of deciding whether cats are better than dogs by locking them
    in a room and seeing which comes out exibits the classic macho attitude
    that "meaner is better". It's precisely this absurd attitude that
    encourages deliberately breeding for agression and "fighting spirit" in
    some kinds of dog. 
    
    Ackk! Pfft!
    
    	-- Charles

    .42 should have read the 41 replies.
    
    Sylvester and Marmaduke are both stupid, I'll wait for a better
    deal.
    
    Spence

    RE: .49
    
    Here here!
    
    However, the dog gets my vote (unless the "cat" is a lion!).
    
    Show me a person who loves cats, and I'll show you a person who
    loves to be dominated!
    
    John M.

    Enough!  If noone has anything more to contribute to the original
    question, we may as well close this topic.  Otherwise people will
    be arguing forever.  This conference is not the place for a shouting
    match about cats and dogs.
    					Steve

    
    Re: .49
    
         You better believe it, Bud.  I breed 'em for as many vicious
    traits as possible.  Forget you simpering Alan Alda's!  I don't
    seem to get much blood and guts, though.  Toy Chihuahuas just don't
    go that far.
    
                                   Bubba
    

    RE. 52
    
    I agree Steve.
    
    I appreciate all that answered my original question, which, by the
    way, had nothing to do with dogs..
    
    
    kathie

    In case it wasn't clear from my reply (.49) I am a cat lover. Not
    particularly a dog hater, but I definitely prefer cats. I have two
    right now, and am planning to get two more (Abby kittens) real soon.
    (Like as soon as I can get the breeder to answer my calls...)
    
    I've had cats all of my life, and find it hard to imagine not having
    one around. I have quite a few male friends who feel the same way. A
    cat is loving and affectionate, but not "clingy". A cat leaves room for
    you, and expects room in return.
    
    I love 'em. Nothing nicer than coming home after a long day, and
    having a furry kitty fall asleep in your lap, purring. (And for
    those of you who think that "men" liking this is "wimpy", all I
    can say is "ESAD macho ****ole".)
    
    As for cat lovers liking to be dominated, I think you're all turned
    around. Trying to dominate a cat is futile, it will walk away rather
    than be dominated.
    
    Of course any generalization about "men" and "cats" is silly. Surely
    some men hate cats, and perhaps even more men than women dislike
    cats. But to ask if all men hate cats is unreasonable. As to why
    many men dislike cats (and I admit, there seem to be more men who
    dislike cats than women) I really don't know.
    
    Sounds like it's a good thing you dumped him.
    
    	-- Charles

    On a only vaguely related tangent, do any of you remember the movie
    "ffolkes"?  It had Roger Moore playing a James Bond-like character
    that hated women, prefering cats.  This of course didn't stop his
    underwater commando team from defeating the terrorists trying to
    blow up a British offshore platform and wreak the British economy.

    Steveg

 Puddy tats are bad. They are always trying to eat up us poor helpless
tweety birds.

    
    My two cats recently lost their lives two months apart from each
    other.  Two of what I considered very dear friends, with personalities
    and affections some humans never possess.  The hardest to take was
    my last survivor leaving on me.  I sincerely hope there's a truth
    to "nine lives".  Because I'll forever be in search of "just" those
    two again.
    
    Sherman

    Raymond Chandler was another famous cat person.

	When I was a teenager, we had a cat that I fed every morning.
	He would wait outside my bedroom door, no matter who got up first.
	He would follow me around the house until I got to the kitchen,
	where I would feed him his breakfast.

	This happened for years until I went to college.  According to
	my father, he waited outside my door every morning for a couple 
	of weeks.  Then he would just wait for my father.

	The following summer, when I went home, the first morning he was
	outside my bedroom door, waiting.  At least I trained him well.

	Currently we have 5 cats and 4 dogs.

    re: .-1
    
    	Sounds Like my situation.  I have a cat now, that when I come
    home in the evening, he is there and when I go out, he goes out.
     He must be watching me for when My car pulls in the driveway, cause
    he is never there accept when I am there.  Plus to add difficulty
    to the situation, whever I go away, he won't eat for anyone.  Is
    that trust or what?  I have him trained to jump to me when I call
    him, people think it's cute, I just like him and like to hold him.
    He also has this nasty habit of when he is purring and really happy,
    that he...
    
    get your mind out of the gutter
    
    	      drools.  Other people think it's gross, but I just get
    a napkin and wipe his face.
    
    Paul
    
    A_person_that_likes_cats_and_has_17_of_them_and_5_dogs.___call_me_crazy

    re: .61
    
    My cat also drools. i asked a Nurse_practioner (who also is friends
    with several vets) about this drooling, and was informed that its
    the cats reaction to being 'totally' relaxed (quite  a compliment
    to the 'petter').
    
    bob

    Before I was married to my first ex-wife, my family always had dogs.
    
    Karen (my first ex) had had cats when she was a girl, and she convinced
    me to get a cat as a pet. It didn't take long to get me hooked on
    cats.
    
    Right now, I have only one cat, Speckles, that I got about 14 months
    ago. Speckles is one of the most affectionate, loving cats, a real
    gentle boy.
    
    Similar to the habits of the cat mentioned in .60, Speckles waits
    until he hears my radio go off in the morning. (I know cats have
    keen hearing, but even so, it amazes me, since I can just about hear
    it). Then he starts scratching at my bedroom door, to come in, say
    hello, and make the trek to the kitchen with me trailing behind
    him. Every few steps, he looks back to make sure I'm still coming.
    If I get detoured, he comes looking for me, to get me on track again.
    
    When I come home at night, he runs over to greet me, then rubs against
    me as we're walking into the house. If he's outside, and I call
    him, he comes running in a gallop, like a dog (since I used the
    word gallop, maybe I should say like a horse).
    
    Another sign of a contented, secure cat, in addition to drooling,
    mentioned in .62, is when they make "happy feet". They stretch out,
    spread their toes, and start  kneading their paws onto a surface.
    Speckles is definitely a contented cat; he "happy feets" a lot.
    
    Getting back to the original basenote, I guess you can tell that
    this is one man who definitely loves cats.
    
      Alan                                                      
                    
    
    

    I have a bunch of male friends who live in an apartment and own
    two cats.  These cats often turn the men into cooing, billing, soft,
    squishy beings.  It's terriffic.  Few of the men have girlfriends,
    so having these femme fatales around is like having a cross between
    a girlfriend (they're fun to cuddle and almost always willing to
    hug), a puppy (they love to play), and a baby (they're SOOO cute).
     The best of all worlds.  And they still maintain their masculinity
    (not machismo, these men don't worry about machismo...).
    
    p.s.  the "happy feet" you refer to is actually called "pussyfooting",
    and cats often do it to prepare a sleeping area so it's comfy. 
        so when you tell someone to stop "pussyfooting around", you're
    telling them to quit preparing to do something, or avoiding doing
    something, and start doing it.
    
    -Jody
    

    I haven't taken the time to read all of the previous replies to
    this note.  If my question has been asked, forgive me.  If not,
    - I read somewhere that people with personality traits leaning toward
    the controlling, tyranical end of the scale don't like cats.  Reason,
    cats are too independent and can't be controlled.  Any comments
    on this theory?  I understand Nepolian hated cats.

    
    I recall reading/hearing that the 'kneading' behaviour serves to
    stimulate the mother cat's milk flow.
    
    Certainly a very young kitten when removed from its mother and placed
    on a fluffy/furry surface will suck and knead in just the way it
    does when suckling.
    
    Dave K

    I think almost all cats "pussyfoot", I've had three and they all did/do
    it. I also read it was related to a nursing response. My present cat does
    something I've never heard of, she nuzzles into you and makes suckling
    noises. She doesn't actually suck on you clothing but she does leave wet
    spots sometimes. I think she's regressing...
    
    

    
    What do you think of the guy who ate the cat he was supposed
    to be watching?

    It was good!

    How does one cook a cat?
    

    on a stick!

    
    
    	I think ALF has a recipe book out...
    

    Please stop with the jokes - they are not productive.  Further replies
    should address the topic of the base note, which is the perceived
    (and in my view incorrect) incompatibility between men and cats.
    
    				Steve

    I personally love cats.  I have three, and my son and I are both
    crazy about them.  I think that people who are insecure like dogs,
    because you can kick a dog around and he'll still come to you. 
    Cats won't do that.  People who like to dominate (which is true
    of insecure people, as well as other types) tend to love dogs and
    hate cats.  I like dogs, but don't have any desire to have a dog.
    I certainly do like having cats, though, and would never think of
    hurting them in any way.  They certainly are a lot of comfort to
    me at times, too.

    
    
    Oh, Larry, I don't think a preference for dogs indicates
    insecurity....perhaps individuals who are more socially
    inclined, those who prefer interaction with others, like
    dogs better....ha, try kicking MY dog and see how fast
    she snubs you!
    
    I do like cats, but prefer to interact with my dog because
    we work as a team, in partnership.   (come to think of it,
    my cat was more like a dog-I used to take her for walks,
    sans leash, for car rides, and she was very sociable and
    obedient).
    
                   Deb
    
    

    For 7 months, I've been living in NH and my wife in NY till my son's
    school year is over. At the end of May, we sold our house and my
    family is staying with friends till the end of June, so our cat
    was smuggled into my apt. till the house is ready. Samantha is a
    13 yr old who usually is quite aloof, but since moving in with me,
    she has gotten as affectionate as a kitten again. All she asks in
    return is a bowl of food and a clean box of litter. Cats are
    independent, but loyal in their own way, and don't have to be walked
    in the rain. I grew up with cats all my life and only had one that
    was vicious naturally. Now that Sam is getting old, she doesn't
    jump around as much, but she's still fun to come home to.
    
    Eric

    I like cats.  My family has always had one or two and I've
    always gotten along quite fine with them.
    
    Now, after some years with out one, I'll soon be moving to
    a place that has 3 of them!
    
    They're quite affectionate and all, but have never lived with 3
    of them.
    
    What should I do?
    
                                               Russ P.

    I suggest that you help keep the litter box clean.  with three cats
    that would be the biggest problem.  as for just having them around?
    enjoy them.
    
    vivian

    My Wife and I have 2 cats - both not much more than kittens. 
    
    The only time they hang around me is at feeding time...;^)
    
    seriously...I enjoy their company...their part of the household
    
    and even though she gets all the attention from them...it was me
    that crawled under the house to get one of them (after he had been
    hit by a car & crawled under the house), take him to the vet and
    fork out $300 for operation,drugs,vet care etc ...
    
    Oh...by the way its me that has to change the litter :-(

    I have three cats and a dog.I initially did'nt want any animals but
    through my wife I adopted them one by one.I find the cats great company
    for relaxing,and they definitely have character!!
    The dog is more fun,seems to understand "moods" better and is a more 
    active friend!
    As regards the constant "fur" that gets everywhere,you get used to
    that!
    
             regards.sean
    

    So.... Sean, when ya gonna release a new album?? soon?
    
    AHAHAHAHA ahem, sorry.. had to do it....

    re .0
    
How do men *really* feel about cats ???

I read in one of the previous notes something to the effect that men
pretend to like cats, but kick them when no one is looking. 
    
    that sounds pretty accurate.
    
Back to my original question..... Do most men really dislike cats ?
In listening to men both at work and in my personal life I hear a
lot of men express their dislike for fur-faces. If this is true..
why do men feel this way ??
    
    in my case.....i like cats, but will torment the slaves of cats with
    much glee.  cats are their own creatures, and to hear humans say
    'My kitty' is quite amusing.  i'm sure the cats have a laugh when
    they are by themselves......
    
    anyways.....a button that i own (and wear) says "What's the use in
    having a cat if you don't TORMENT it?"  usually gets a response for
    those who have been duped, but i've never seen a cat who hissed
    and/or spit at me for wearing it.
    
    maybe this is to counter the 'new-age sensitive male' image that people
    like to try and project onto me.
    

    I love cats and always have.  Most dogs are ok - in someone else's
    house.  I wouldn't own one.  Most of my childhood we had at least one
    dog and cat, and I was always partial to the cat (or cats).
    
    Anyone, male or female, who "kicks cats", or any animal for that
    matter, is deeply disturbed.
    
    Cats are fully capable of giving love and showing affection, if
    it is shown them in turn.
    
    				Steve

    
    RE:.85
    
    >>Anyone, male or female, who  "kicks cats", or any animal for that
      matter, is deeply disturbed.
    
    Let me assure you any cat that gets that close to my foot must be
    deeply disturbed or it will be when it finally lands. ;^)
    
    Joe

    I guess that people who dislike cats dislike dogs, as soon as these
    don't behave "properly" for a pet, just as much. It's just that cats
    never provide the owner with the feeling of dependence on him, or of
    being the boss, and that withers with some people's taste.
    I love all types of animals. I grew up with dogs, cats, horses, hens,
    rabbits etc around me, and I still remember all my dogs and cats as
    being very good friends during my childhood, and I often send them a
    tender mental stroke and hug into animal's heaven. 
    Right now, living in a flat in the middle of city, I don't want to keep
    any pets. But since two years, a huge tom-cat visits me regularly. He
    waits in front of the kitchen window until I notice, and when I open
    the window, he just jumps in and comes straight to me in order to get
    his mandatory caress, and some milk, too. After a while, he'll get
    bored and laps out through the window again, resuming his street life.
    A "no strings attached relationship" that wouldn't be possible with a
    dog! But I always look forward to this little friend's visits!
    ...Paul        

    I love most cats and always have.  I have noticed that many men don't
    seem to like them and I think I understand why. Cats WILL NOT
    subserviate themselves to people, dogs will.  For people who need to
    feel superior I submit that cats are inappropriate subjects. Dogs will
    slobber all over you when you get home.... cats will too... but in a
    much more suble way.
    One of my cats Molly, will rub her head against me upon seeing me and 
    make her delight upon my return known... but most cats won't do that
    automatically unless you have built a relationship with them. My
    other cat Albert always waits for me at my car and wants to be carried
    into the house... that is his way of telling me he is glad I am home.
    
    Other cats that I don't know... act like cats. That is they for the
    most part run or ignore me. That is the impression that many have of
    cats.  With cats one must work at a relationship which is NOT master
    and slave although when it comes to feeding time I think the cats
    would prefer that relationship with ME the slave.
    
    You can count me as an animal lover... cats, dogs, the whole bit. I
    don't segregate myselve into a cat lover dog hater or vice versa
    as many seem to.... I like them all.
    
    Jeff

    for me, cats have no redeeming social value.
    
    my wife has two cats.  she loves both of them.  she gets much pleasure
    from them, and because of her, I tolerate them both. 
    
    I hate the hair everywhere.  I hate the litter box (but, am glad they
    ate least USE it!)  and I don't want the responsibility of feeding or
    caring for them.
    
    In fact, when these two are gone, I'll probably try to talk her out of
    replacing them.  somehow I think I'll lose that one   8*)
    
    I think my feelings derive from living with fourteen cats at one time
    when I was a teenager in California.  
    
    tony
    
    (who likes dogs, but doesn't want the responsibility of one, either)
    

    
    Cats are useful rodent control beasts, but I really break up when
    my neighbor talks to her cat, dresses it it in ribbons, etc.
    
    Sometimes when she calls it indoors from nocturnal games, I go 
    'meow, meow' just to encourage her,..
    
    

    .89  Barefoot and pregnant as well as dumb and outside?

    minor sidetrack, but big/dumb/loyal dogs annoy me.
    
    when i don't want a cat around, don't offer to shower it with
    attention, it will usually find something better to do (someone
    better to bother, or just go off by itself).
    
    big/dumb/loyal dogs, on the other hand, will follow you around,
    get in the way, drool on you....and if you start to smack it, the
    d*mn thing thinks you are playing with it!  there is one dog in
    particular that i was VERY mean to, VERY nasty, and to this day
    it will do what i tell it to.  well, it will listen if what i say
    is "Sit down so I can scratch your ears.", otherwise it is just
    goofy and bumps into people and gets in the way.
    
    sorry, don't mean to turn this into a dog vs. cat type note.
    

    Do you ever feel like a cat-food object? There's nothing like the sound
    of the can opener to bring a cat running. Where were you, when I wanted
    to go for a run or play fetch? Too busy sleeping (I think cats sleep
    about fourteen hours per day). But when that can-opener's operating,
    we're great friends all of a sudden.
    
    I admire cats for the way they move, their suppleness, speed, and
    reaction times. Dogs are athletes, though. Give me a good retriever
    and a pair of running shoes and a road through the woods -- companions
    trekking into the future together, haunches flexing rhythmically. Dogs
    take pleasure in moving for its own sake. Cats will move to catch prey
    or tuna fish.
    
    - Hoyt

    
    I love cats; prefer them to dogs.
    
    When I was diagnosed as being extremely allergic to cat saliva and
    given the choice of getting rid of the cat or suffering, there was no
    choice....I sufferred.
    
    However when the cat died several years later, we didn't replace her
    but I still miss having a couple of cats around. Love it, and later
    hate it, when I visit my sister and get to play with her cats.
    
    I like them for a lot of the reasons people hate them: independent,
    aloof, sense of humour (notice how they always go to the cat
    hater...they're laughing all the time). But I also love cat jokes and
    books like '100 Things to do With a Dead Cat'.
    
    Roger

    Anyone who has met my cat will not apply the term "aloof" to him!
    He is extremely friendly and affectionate, will come if you call
    (usually), likes to play catch and loves to sit on your lap and have
    his belly rubbed.  But he's also capable of entertaining himself and
    enjoying a sunny window.
    
    Not all cats are alike, nor are all dogs.  I've known and loved 
    many dogs in my life, but I prefer cats.  I've generally found that
    the people who say that cats are aloof and disdainful are the ones
    who don't treat cats as the friendly, sociable creatures they can
    be.  But a cat who is not shown love and affection will very likely
    grow into the stereotypical cat that has no use for humans.  They
    give to you what you give to them.  And I wouldn't have it any
    other way.
    
    				Steve

    Well put Steve. All the cats I have ever had have been very
    affectionate... although as individuals they express it different
    ways. Yup... what you put out is what you get back. Hate cats and
    no wonder cats avoid you and have no use for you... 
    
    Jeff

    I get along with cats. Then again, I get along without them. 
    Chalk me up as definitely indifferent :-)

        Personally, I  love  cats  !  I've always said I will own one
        (or is it that the cat will own me ?  :^)) but I have no idea
        where to get one. . .
        
        I'm talking about a Panther or a Cougar.
        
        Matt

	RE: Matt


	I know where you can get a wldkat.....cheap.



	k

        You do ?  My next question would have to be. . .
        
        Will that wldkat keep sales people away ? :^)
        
        Seriously though,  the  panther would have to be black with a
        diamond studded collar.  Oooooh, I wanna' BIG kitty ! :^)
        
        Matt

    Matt, you sure you don't want a blonde Kitty?
    <SLAP>
    
    Chuckie

	Charles......you get more than a <slap> for that
	one.........and Matt...I'll lend you Acorn for
	a weekend..so you can know what it's like to live
	with a cougar.

	

	kits

    Tell me more Kitten!
    
    Charles

	About Acorn Charles ??

	You already know all there is to know.........  :-)



	kits

    Yes, but I don't know much about the "more than a slap"
    
    Charles 

	Well, Matt........the wldkat I'm thinking of does have a diamond
	studded collar, and wears black MOST of the time....




	bahahaha........

    .99 Barefoot and pregnant etc.  It had to do with the dog being dumb
    and outside... did you want it barefoot and pregnant too?

    
    	oh MAtthEEw....
    
    	i think ::GALLUP wants to follow you home....

>    	i think ::GALLUP wants to follow you home....


	I'm harmless, Denise, quite harmless, Matt is safe with me.

	Trust me.

	k

re-.1
Diden't you father tell you NEVER trust anyone that says 'trust me' 8^)

    As Ed Eagan, OSHA Electrical Safety Expert would say:
    
    "Trust me, I work for your government." 8^)
    
    He says it with a smile too...
    
    Ken

      Well personally i hate cats and think they should all be put down...
      as they kill poor wee mouses..
    
        Colin....

    ah and Colin
    
    I am sure you feed the poor wee mouses and complain not
    when they eat your grain and feed for your chickens and
    goats and cows, or crawl in your walls, and shit in your
    sliver wear drawer, and eat your breakfast food and get
    into your garbage?
    
    me thinks you are a 'city boy'
    
    Bonnie

     Bonnie,
             You are so correct ... I am a city boy but as i live in
     Edinburgh(capital of Scotland) it is only the matter of a 15 minute
     drive and i am surrounded by feilds and hills so i also know a little
     bit about the country side ... not a lot but a little..
    
    
                        Colin..
    
     P.S.
         I still like mouses though....
    

    Re -1, -2: The plural of mouse is not mouses; it's meeses, as in "I
               hate meeses to pieces" [S. Cat].
    
    One of my favorite Fat Freddy's (of the Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers)
    cat stories is the origin of the frisbee. This cat named Frisbee, you
    see, was squashed one hot summer's day as it crossed the street. For
    the next 72 hours, much traffic flattened Frisbee and eventually lent
    the cat a cupped shape. Some neighborhood youths (boys, no doubt)
    picked up the flattened-but-curved cat and flung it -- and it sailed
    charmingly. Hence: the Frisbee.
    
    - Hoyt

     well thanks for picking me up on my spelling hoyt .... but i still
     like mouses (meeses)
    
    
    
       Colin..

	Hi Colin....

	I'd bet that my cats would just luv your mousies   :-)



	kits

    Re: .117
    
    Fat Freddy's Cat is the wittiest cat in all comic lore, in my
    opinion.
    
    PS - "Wait 'till he puts on his stereo headphones!"  :^)

     hi Kits,
            I've got to be honest.. i dont have any mouses i just prefer
     them to cats....
    
    
     Colin
    

    Brenda gave me two tickets to CATS at the Shubert for our first wedding
    anniversary last July 30.  Of course, I shared one ticket with her. 
    ;^)
    
    Those were the only cats that I really enjoyed.  What a grand show it
    was!
    
    tony

re.17
I thought it was called a 'CATapult' when you gave 'em a good fling.

-j

    Re .123:
    
    Could result in a CATastrophe, if it rebounds.  Remember (to misquote 
    Calvin) "...5 of [their] 6 ends are sharp..."
    
    :)
    aq
    

    I love cats.  I have always had at least one - sometimes three.
    
    Ed
    

    I love cats too.  Always lived with one or two.  But, bummer!  9 years
    ago at age 36 I became allergic to them.  I didn't get rid of them, but
    I can't pet them for very long and have to wash my hands right away
    after I do.
    						- Vick

    Cats?! They make the house smell like ammonia-soaked diapers.

    I'll take a big dumb mutt over a cat anyday.

    re .127, they don't make the whole *house* smell that way unless the
    kitty letter isn't changed often enough!  And, besides, they're worth
    it.
    
    Lorna
    

    My views on cats (love 'em!) were expressed in the HUMAN_RELATIONS note
    on the subject.
    
    I just thought you might enjoy the words of someone who misses his ole
    tomcat: one Bill Fries (A.K.A. "C.W.McCall" of notoriety from the song
    "Convoy") Reprinted without permission, but I don't think he'd
    mind...:).....
    
    					Roy
    
    				by C. W. McCall
    
    	I had an ole cat named Roy
    
    	Roy was a good ole boy
    
    	He used to go huntin' down by the lake
    
    	Catch 'im a nice fresh garter snake
    
    	Bring it on back an' sit in the grass
    
    	Lookin' like he had 'im a green moustache
    
    	Yeah, Roy was a good ole boy.....
    
    	....... till the dogs got 'im.....
    
    						--Eric--