Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    Jerry,
    
    I would spend a small portion of those available hours to find out why
    you really dread vacations. And what you want to do in the vacations
    (i.e. chatting up, or doing something for yourself, or sport, or
    culture). I also find it is easier to learn to have vacations by
    oneself if one starts with small segments, like an extended weekend.
    
    Heinrich
    (who thinks he is slowly getting to grips with that problem)

    
    jerry -
    
    I tend to pick one of my special interests/projects, and base a holiday
    around that. I read a lot about the stuff that interests me anyway,
    and then I plan to visit places where some of the action took place,
    or someone special lived, or whatever....
    
    I'm currently planning a "Joan of Arc" holiday...:-)
    
    'gail
    
    

    
    RE. -1
    
    Whilst typing in the title for that, I thought of something else....
    
    Maybe it would be usful for you to take a long, honest look at what
    you *really* enjoy doing - and then go where you're likely to find it!
    I spent years telling myself that I really enjoyed climbing up
    hills in the Lake District and camping out (due to SO pressure), when 
    in fact there are many other things/styles of holiday I prefer.
    
    And then you could consider all those places you've wanted to get 
    around to visiting, groups you've meant to join, things you've
    meant to do.....and go do them!
    
    'gail

    
    You seem to be getting a consensus here. Start with deciding on
    something you really like to do and plan the vacation around that.
    
    I love baseball, my wife isn't crazy about it.  But I took a vacation
    that hit ball parks from Montreal to Cincinatti and all points
    inbetween. Great time and I didn't need a crowd. 
    
    My uncle is a widower and loves golf. His ambition is to play all the
    public courses in Florida (not in one year) so he plans his vacations
    that way.
    
    You shouldn't have too much trouble planning a vacation. In fact the
    planning can be almost as enjoyable as the vacation itself.
    
    Roger

    I like the idea of a driving vacation, with some highlight each day and
    a different friend each evening. Hmmm, I can get to and spend two hours
    at Amos's Amazing Cavern (!), then drive four more hours and find my
    old college roommate in Winston-Salem. An evening is a good amount of
    time to spend, esp. without wearing out a welcome, and the friend is
    happy to provide bed or sleeping bag space.
    
    FWIW - Hoyt

    You don't say quite what it was that you loved every minute of.
    Being with family.  Being in an imaginative place like an
    amusement park.  Being away from work/home/community.  Did
    your vacations take you TO something or AWAY from something?
    
    You now dread the vacation.  Wife and kids are not there; is
    there something else that isn't there?  For example, what about
    doing one of the DisneyXXXs again on your own?
    
    What would it be like to limit yourself to no more than
    xx (say 30) miles of driving each day and sleeping at home
    each night?  Spending two weeks doing this?  Would that drive
    you crazy?  Craziness can be a place where you find new things.
    
    If you like to make lists, resist that urge for two solid
    weeks.  (I'm saying two weeks, because I've heard men who never
    took more than one week's vacation at a time say that the first
    time that they took two weeks, they discovered that on the 10th
    or 11th day, something changed.  It took them more than a week
    to get out of the "work" mold.)
    
    Read "Blue Highways" or "Travels with Charley" or other books on
    traveling alone across the country.
    
    (If I had two weeks right now, I would hole up in my place, get
    my wood stove going, and start day-dreaming, reading, and journal
    writing.  This is the best time of the year to do it -- the darkest
    time of the year.  This is the time when we need to be indoors,
    in a semi-hibernation state.  I'd be sure to get some sunshine and
    exercise every day, eat lightly but well, get out with people now
    and then, but I'd get in eight hours a day in day-dreaming.  Wish
    I had 320 vacation hours to spend!)
    
    Bill

Hi Jerry,

I really look forward to my semi-annual, September vacation in Provincetown, 
alone.  Some people think that I'm nuts going on vacation alone, but I 
really enjoy it.  I find that it's really easy to find people to go to 
dinner with, to go to the movies with, to go out drinking with, and so 
on.  And, when I want to be alone (reading, sunbathing, shopping, and 
so forth), that's no problem.

Obviously, I don't think that the destination has to be Provincetown 
(Cape Cod, in Massachusetts), but I think that it would have to be
someplace where there are a lot of people available for talking
(someplace where there would be other single vacationers looking for
something to do), and lots of options for things to do (so you can
choose from lots of stuff depending on whether you want company or you
want to be alone). 

I'd avoid places that seem to have only one outlet, like a small 
amusement park or a cabin in the woods.  I'd also avoid places that 
seem dominated by families and kids.  Pick something that is diverse.
(For example, Disney World has an amusement park, nice restaurants, a 
night life in Orlando, swimming, and other things to do; however, it 
does seem pretty "family" oriented.)

I also know you well enough to know that you're good at meeting
people, and you're a very charming conversationalist.  If you go in
with the attitude, "It's going to be fun to see who I can meet next,"
then I think that you'll have a blast. 

							--Gerry

    Hey, Bill, plan my next vacation.  Your ideas sound great.
    
    Jerry, how about getting in the can ans just plain exploring.  Seems to
    me adults sometimes lose their sense of adventure; if it's not on a pre-
    planned itinerary then don't bother.  Just get in the car, head north
    from Beelerland and aim for the Pacific northwest.  What will you
    find?  Who will you meet?  Will it be fun?  What's the point?  Ah,
    that's the adventure!
    
    Read "Blue Highways", a real-life account about a man who gave up his pre-
    planned life, got in a van and discovered himself as he discovered the
    country.  A beautiful book.
    
    Allbest,
    LArry

    I've never taken a vacation alone and haven't a clue how I'd do it.
    I think I'd be fine as long as I was busy but idle time would get
    to me.
    
    			Alfred

 If I had to take a vacation alone, I'd immediately find the ballsiest
place to go fishing and go there. I'd fish until I was tired of catching,
suck down mega brewskis, and fish some more. Then I'd go home and do some work
on the house. You know, all those projects you see when you're doing something
else and say "one of these days I'm gonna..."

 I'd probably include some hiking or camping as well. Take the dog with ya.

 The Doctah

    
    grab a plane to Islamabad
    
    unpack my bike
    
    ride to Kashi
    
    grab a plane home
    
    write a book about it

    What I really feel I want to do on a vacation is rest.  Give me a cabin
    with a porch and a view of the alps, and maybe a new Dick Francis book.
    But this might bore you silly.
    
    I'd also like to build a house, so attending one the the
    build-it-yourself courses in Mass. or Maine would be lovely.
    
    Knowing yourself is the thing -- and you might try to catch your
    fantasies for that -- what do you see yourself doing in your mind?
    
    BTW, are the children grown?  Can you -- do you want to -- take them
    along?
    
    Briana

    Do you ski, General? Get thyself to Mammoth, sir, and partake of some
    lovely countryside and the beauty of the Sierra Nevadas, either
    downhill or cross-country style, and then on to Tahoe, and Reno to
    lose yer wages....it's your neighborhood.
    
    Yosemite is supposed to be gorgeous in winter, as well.
    
    -roger
    

	Do you get magazines that focus on your interests ?

	Some of the vacation things I'm aware of :

	1) 1 and 2-week Folk music/crafts workshops in the mountains
	   of West Virginia (Augusta Heritage Workshops).

	2) Horse-riding vacations for from 3-days to 2 weeks in
	   different areas of the US (from Far West to New
	   England), and Europe.

	3) I'm a pilot, so often see flight schools advertising
	   new ratings, training, etc. in locales like Florida
	   and South Carolina, complete with oceanside condo for
	   the term of the training.

	4) One of the Nature Conservancy ( or similar groups )
	   'theme' treks -- some even to places like Nepal,
	   South America.

	The imagination's the limit.

	Steve H

.6> You don't say quite what it was that you loved every minute of.
.6> Being with family.  Being in an imaginative place like an
.6> amusement park.  Being away from work/home/community.  Did
.6> your vacations take you TO something or AWAY from something?

Just the "togetherness" ... watching the kids have the blast of their
life ... that's what I loved ... I loved my family.

.12> BTW, are the children grown?  Can you -- do you want to -- take them
.12> along?

No, they're not "grown" (Hell, *I'm* not grown up yet) ... I'd love more than
anything on the face of this earth to "repeat" one of the vacations of the
past, but, that's not really possible ...  I guess that I've got to give it
up some time, and, that time is now.  That's what hurts.  It's over.

I don't really want to go to places where, as I said, it's very "family"
oriented.  It would hurt, a great deal, to be reminded of what I HAD, so
thoroughly screwed up, and, will not have again....at the same time I love
kids more than anything in the world....I love to see a smile on their face,
to hear the laughter....to see them thoroughly excited.  A dichotomy.
Damned if I do and damned if I don't.

.13> Do you ski, General? Get thyself to Mammoth, sir, and partake of some
.13> lovely countryside and the beauty of the Sierra Nevadas....

Well, sir, I've not lived an exemplary life, and, sliding down the side
of a mountain at 90 MPH with nothing but God between me and a tree ... well
I don't think that I've much of a chance ... 

You know...Mr. Fisher has got a point ... I'm in sales, love to meet people,
love to talk ... this is a major part of my "personality" ... I've got to
see if I can't come up with something along those lines ....

Thanks...I've heard some good suggestions in this string...still looking.

Jerry

Jerry,

Two suggestions: If you like a sense of adventure, I would point you to Barefoot
                 Windjammer Cruises.  My wife and I have been on three and have
                 always had a great time.  These "Tall Ships" are based in the
                 Caribbean, very informal (dressing for dinner means you put a
                 tee-shirt on over your bathing suit if you should be wearing
                 one), not that expensive, the people who usually take these
                 cruises are interesting (you may fall in love), etc.

                 Second suggestion, since you like kids, why not take a month
                 off next summer and work in a summer camp?

Hope these help...

    Have you ever thought about spending your vacation doing something
    charitable?  You could take a week or two and work at a fresh aire
    camp for disadvantaged kids, there are all kinds of "outreach"
    trips usually sponsored by religious organizations to help out people
    in economically depressed areas, or you could even spend time lending
    a hand in local shelters for the homeless.  
    
    It sounds like you miss the togetherness and feeling of being needed
    with your family, and also like you feel some guilt or regret about
    your past.  It doesn't appeal to everyone, but maybe helping someone
    else out could also make you feel better, too.
    
    just a thought..
    
    c.

    .9> I've never taken a vacation alone and haven't a clue
    .9> how I'd do it.
    
    You know....I've been thinking about this...I think that this is *the*
    root of the (my) problem...I've never done it alone and perhaps there's
    just this fear of the "unnown" .... fear that it "can't be like it
    was" ....
    
    Hummmmm......
    Jerry

    RE: .18 Jerry have you tried to talk one of your daughters into
    taking a trip with you while you're still young enough to keep
    up with them? OR are they in one of those "don't want to be seen
    with a parent stage?"

    One thing that I thought of from an earlier note is some sort of
    group trip with a purpose. I went on a couple of bicycle trips
    when I was a kid that helped me have fun and meet a lot of people.
    Even though my brother was on the same trips it wasn't really a
    "family vacation". Those trips were about a month each (100 miles
    a day) and that may not be your idea of a good time but there may
    be other things. I have a friend who uses his vacation to work with
    habitat for humanity. (They build houses for low income people.)
    There are also archaeological trips though museums (Boston Museum of
    Science is always advertising such.) Presumably there are other types
    of "working" vacations that might work for you.

    			Alfred

    Jerry,
    
    Having been in a similar situation, after finding myself alone
    after years of "group" vacations ... what I've found to work for
    me, and be loads of fun, is to take a "visiting" vacation.  I plan
    to visit a friend on the west coast ... or the east coast ... or
    wherever.  Since I'm in Michigan, and really enjoy driving/exploring,
    I take my time getting there .. stop at every single spot that 
    interests me; be it funky souviner shop or art gallery, or whatever;
    and really just enjoy not having a deadline.  Once I reach my
    destination and stay for a day or two, it's back on the road ... and
    more exploring/adventure.  After many years of fine-tuning this mode of
    travel, I find that I enjoy the travel more than the actual visit.
    This way, I have a real destination, and a vacation plan, but my
    real experience/enjoyment is gained while I'm alone.  Besides
    finding out that you really enjoy your own company, you just may
    meet some truly delightful people along the way.
    
    Enjoy the Journey!  
    
    C.
    

    Hummmmmmm......

    I'm going to pack up the car, take all my camera gear and set my
    "final" destination as that of Houston, Texas (to visit my mother). 

    That's my only schedule ... I may drive by way of Albuquerque, El Paso,
    Kansas City, or Chicago!  I really don't care ... If I average 500
    miles a day or 50 miles a day  ... I don't really care.  I'm going to
    stop and take pictures of anything I want to ... go anywhere I want to
    - if I see a sign that says "Antique Auction - High School Gym" in a
    little town of 1,000 people, and, the mood hits me ... I'll go ...  If
    it doesn't, I won't.
    
    I'll stop and take pictures of anything ... anywhere ... and stay as
    long as I want to stay ...

    On week days, I'll go wherever I want to, and, visit whatever/whoever
    I want to ...  on Sunday's I'm going to find the smallest country
    church so far back in the backroads of American that even God has
    forgotten that it exist...I want to sing the hymns of the old Cokesbury
    Hymnal ... if I can talk my way into it, I'll play the piano (or pump
    organ) for 'em ...

    When I pass through Arizona or West Texas  ... I'll probably find some
    place to get a horse ... sleeping bag and camping gear ... mount him and
    ride off to some place where no man has set foot for a long time past
    ... just watch the moon rise  ... look at the stars ... listen to the
    sounds of the desert ... build a campfire ... hunt for my food ....

    When I pass trough Dallas I'll probably go to some bar ... close to my
    motel and drink myself silly  - to forget that which was and finally
    acknowledge that that which is.  Naturally, I'll promise God that if
    He'll let me live through the night, I'll never drink again, then,
    promptly break that promise the next night ...

    Finally, in Houston, I'll visit my mother for a few days ... we'll talk
    about what was, what is, and what can be ... and ... well we'll see
    what happens ... then to Galveston for a few days and I'll think about
    the monster hurricanes that came through when I was growing up ... I'll
    probably visit some of the people that I helped to rebuild their homes
    after they were devastated by those monsters ... walk along the beach,
    watch the time come in ... listen to the waves breaking on the seawall,
    spend the night at the Galvez Hotel ... then head back to Beelersfield.

    On the way back, the same thing as on the way there ... anything I want to
    do...taking as long as I want....doing whatever suits me at the time...

    Jerry

    Jerry, I looks like you've found the American Dream.  Hope you have the
    adventure of your life.  Let's hear some stories when you return!
    
    Allbest,
    LArry

    Stories?!  hell, I want a book!  That way I can at least get off
    vicariously.  I would like to do that myself...different destination
    though! ;-)  Have fun and enjoy it!!!
    
                                                            Capt. Scott

    
    Re: charity stuff
    
    Jerry - if what you *really* enjoyed was watching your kids having a
    once-in-a-lifetime good time maybe you'd enjoy taking some other
    kids to do the same thing. There are many great kids who need "support"
    when having fun, and lots of organisations who need volunteers to
    help out with field trips to some fun places....
    
    'gail

    Re: .21 - Jerry
    
    Now THAT's my kind of vacation, and the kind I try to take every
    chance I get.  May this be the first of *many* such adventures!
    
    
    Cindy
    
    
    

    Jerry, when in Albuquerque, stop in at Cervantes, corner of San Mateo
    and Gibson (right next to Kirtland AFB).  Order the chiles relleno.
    Put it in a fed-ex package and mail it to me.  order another one for
    you.  Have a good vacation!
    
    DougO

    Jerry,
    
    I'm not a single guy, but I sometimes take vacations alone.  This
    August I drove over 4,000 miles.  What I do is decide what general
    area of the country I want to explore, then get books on that area
    with lots of pictures, to pin down a few specific things I want to
    see.  I also get books on Bed & Breakfasts in the area.  
    
    (By the way, some of the most memorable times of my life are trips
    I've taken with my kids, so I know what you're talking about there!)
    
    In August I wandered around Wyoming (I've been there a few times
    before, too).  In Cody I stayed at the old Irma Hotel, Buffalo Bill
    Cody's hotel that he named after his daughter.  The restaurant has
    a huge cherry backbar given to him by Queen Victoria.  You can
    wander around in the morning and look at the suites in the original
    part of the hotel. I went to a rodeo and a real rodeo cowboy tried to
    pick me up.  I spent 2 nights camping in Yellowstone Nat'l Park and
    met a man I still keep in touch with.  I eventually went along part of
    the Oregon Trail, across Oregon to the coast, spent a night camping
    almost on the beach in a campground with showers.  Went to the Olympic
    peninsula, to the Hoh Rain Forest, across part of Puget Sound by ferry,
    across the North Cascades Highway to a picturesque old town where I
    stayed in Washington, and eventually made my way back to Colorado.
    
    I made it a point to NOT eat at fast-food restaurants, and I found a
    couple places I'd definitely wish were closer to home.  Of course I
    took lots of photos. I make it a point to have no set schedule,
    stopping when something catches my fancy, like antique shops or old
    mining towns or museums or cheese factories.  Works for me! I just love 
    to explore!
    
    Sometime I'd like to get gutsy enough to go on a cruise or go explore
    the Mediterranean.
    
    Paula

    Another thing that sounds intriguing is "Earthwatch".  They have
    all sorts of projects all over the world -- some I remember are
    observing dolphins and whales in various locations, something in the
    Canary islands, archeological digs in the Mediterranean, observing
    dietary effects on musk ox in Alaska, helping baby turtles to the sea
    in Mexico, counting birds in Hawaii.  They take volunteers for about
    $2,000 for a week or two (you pay them), and you usually have some time 
    off for yourself each day.  The magazines they have describe the
    working conditions and any requirements (like having to be fit enough
    to walk up a steep hill all day).
    
    Haven't tried it yet, but it sounds interesting.  

    Re. Earthwatch. WHAT A DEAL FOR THEM.... you pay them to do work for
    them... such a DEAL!    I know, its for the good of the Planet... if
    it wern't for that aspect................

 
    Last few;;;;;

    I seem to detect a note of "If it ain't all for me, it ain't worth 
it...." Maybe I am reading it wrong, but that is what I seem to see....

Let me tell you about the vacation I took with my daughter (age 15 minus 
a couple of weeks) last summer. She is active in her church youth group 
and they decided to do a work project in Appalachia. An advisor to the 
group has worked with an organization for the past 6 years and got everyone 
involved in it. ASP, Appalachian Service Project is a church affiliated 
group that has worked for the past 21 years to provide and rebuild adequate 
shelter for families in the 12 poorest counties in the Appalachains. The 
areas they work are in West VA, VA, KY, and Tenn., and they have a central 
work site in each of the 12 counties there. For 8 weeks each summer they 
have groups come for a week at a time to stay at the center and go out 
each day to an assigned house to work on it. A project may take one week or 
it may take all 8 weeks to finish.

My daughter requested that I join the group going down because I am fairly 
handy and she and I enjoy each others company. I spent a week putting 
the finishing touches on a house that had been heavily rebuilt in the past 
5 weeks. My team consisted of one other adult ( a woman manager here at 
DEC) and three kids, ages 14-15. My daughter was on a team of 2 adults and 
2 kids that did 90% of the work needed on another house. We saw each other 
only for breakfast and dinnertime, and had a wonderful experiance. My host 
family had a 2 room house, with no indoor plumbing, but needing a new roof, 
framing on several walls, and new siding to keep it dry and warm. My 
daughters team rebuilt a wall and partial foundation on the back of a house 
that was owned by a 65 year old woman whose father had built the house many 
years ago. The work done on that house enabled the elderly lady to continue 
to live in the house without fear of falling thru a floor or having the 
house collapse in the kitchen area.

In both cases, neither my family nor my daughter's elderly friend could 
have afforded to have the work done without the efforts and contribution of 
ASP. some 6500 volunteers worked this summer and repaired over 300 homes of 
people in similar circumstances.

Was it a vacation? Not in your typical sense....I worked my tail off, so 
did my daughter and everyone else. But we got to make new friends, both on 
other work teams as well as in the valleys and hollows where we worked. We 
got to see some beautiful scenery in western VA, as well as some crippling 
poverty and immense problems. We had 4 days on the road, not a lot of fun 
driving, but not bad, either. It took us both about 4-5 days to recover 
from the work but I think that is a small price to pay for helping out 
someone. 

Others might disagree with me on my motives and why I would consider this a 
vacation as opposed to just a change of work scenery. I found it very 
rewarding and I was particularly pleased that my daughter and others got to 
see a part of the country that is forgotten and out of sight, but in 
desparate need of help. She is a lot better educated now about how good a 
life she has and how little some folks get by on. That is worth all the 
work in itself.

    Vic

PS: She will be returning this year to work again, I may be needed as well, 
not sure yet.

    
    Something really relaxing is a boating holiday. I went on an old canal
    boat up and down the Grand Union Canal round Northants and Birmingham.
    Fair enough, bits were hard work like opening all the locks and having
    to do self-catering, but its a really enjoyable way to spend a holiday.