Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    
    
    If I were a believer in engagement rings (which I'm not), I'd
    much prefer a saphire (my birthstone).  Or an opal, but it would
    have to be a really nice one, not one of those white things they pass off
    as opals these days.
                                                  
    We bypassed the entire "engagement ring" situation by buying matching
    wedding bands in black hills gold.  Very ornate, and large enough
    that an engagement ring wouldn't look right anyway.
    
    DK
    

Greg; I'm going to look in my gem/mineral symbolism book tonight and fill you 
in on all the juicy details.  I do know that sapphire is a good choice.

M

    
    I'm interested in hearing what the symbolism for sapphire is
    also (and opal, ruby and emerald also, if you don't mind...)
    
    Heck, what is the symbolism for diamonds, now that we're on
    the subject?  I never have like them...
    
                        Deb
    
    

A jeweler once told me that another reason diamonds are good 
stones for wedding/engagement rings is because they are so hard.
They cannot be scratched which is important for a ring you wear 
constantly.  Some stones are also hard and may be suitable for 
a wedding ring, but many are definitely not, especially opals 
and (I'm pretty sure) emeralds.

Kp.

    	Not all diamonds come from S. Africa. If the Soviet Union decided
    to dump their diamond supply on the world market, diamonds would
    cost about the same as copper. Since the Soviets have agreed not
    to effect the market balance Russian dian=monds are hard to find
    but are available. If S. African politics are the reasons that you
    won't buy, investigate the source of your diamond and if you want
    the diamond as the engagement stone, buy from a country you like
    better.
    
    Ken

The lore of the stones which is shared here, in some cases dates back thousands 
of years.  Stones were used in ancient magic, and in some cases, are still used 
for such, today.

I've started out with a few (alphabetical order) and will continue later;

AMETHYST
	Dreams, overcoming alcoholism, healing, psychism, peace, love,
	protection against thieves, courage, happiness.

	A stone of pure, true emotional love, it can be exchanged between
	lovers to strengthen their commitment.  Amethyst is also one of
	the few stones psecifically prescribed for men to use for attracting
	women.  Worn by a man, the stone draws "good women" to love him.

DIAMOND
	Spirituality, Sexual Dysfunction, Protection, Courage, Peace,
	Reconciliation, Healing, Strength

	When carried or worn, the diamond promotes self-confidence in relations
	with the opposite sex.  It is said to be potent for relieving or
	eliminating the root causes of sexual dysfunction.  Worn for this
	purpose, it relieves cultural blockages which have caused generations
	of women to be nonorgasmic.  The diamond is a cleansing, purifying
	and releasing stone in matters of sexuality.

	Though the diamond is not a stone of love, it is worn to ensure 
	fidelity and to reconcile quarreling lovers.

EMERALD
	Love, Money, Mental Powers, Psychism, Protection, Exorcism, Eyesight

	(No specific reference to love in the description)

JADE
	Love, Healing, Longevity, Wisdom, Protection, Gardening, Prosperity,
	Money

	Jade is an ancient love-attracting stone.  Carved into a butterfly,
	in China it is worn to draw love, or is given to another in hopes of
	obtaining love.  It was a frequent engagement gift from a woman to
	a man.  Jade is also presented by a man to his bride before their
	wedding.

LAPIS LAZULAI
	Healing, Joy, Love, Fidelity, Psychism, Protection, Courage

	A rather expensive stone (royal blue with flecks of pyrite)
	is healing and soothing.  Touching the body with this stone
	improves your mental, physical, spiritual, psychic and
	emotional condition.  It stimulates gentleness in its wearer.

	It is considered a potent fidelity charm and so is worn to
	strengthen the bonds that have grown between lovers.

OPAL
	Astral Projection, Psychism, Beauty, Money, Luck, Power

	The opal contains the colors as well as the qualities of
	every other stone.

	Opals are also worn to bring out inner beauty.

    Another problem with diamonds is resale value.  Rubies, sapphires,
    and (I believe) emeralds all have better resale values (i.e. make
    better investments) than diamonds.  DeBeers Consolidated tends to
    stockpile their diamonds and force up the price by reducing the
    supply (artificially).  
    
    Diamonds are difficult to scratch, but they can still cleave along
    certain directions within the crystal if you smack them against
    something accidentally - especially with those (ugly, in my opinion)
    high-raised settings some jewelers use these days.
    
    Diamonds are also priced according to the 4 C's (Carat-weight, Clarity,
    Color, Cut).  There are 100 points to a carat, and 140 carats to
    an ounce (so if you have a 75 point ring, you have 3/4 of a carat).
    Clarity refers to any flaws you can see (with the help of a jewelers
    loupe eyepiece).  Color has a lot to do with price also, with the
    "bluish" stones being more highly prized than those with a pink
    or yellow tinge.  The more difficult cuts cost more (brilliant,
    your typical circular cut, has 58 facets to it, and they have to
    be perfectly cut to bring out the diamond's brilliance).
    
    I'd take a sapphire over a diamond.  Emeralds have a warm glow,
    but only the clearest ones sparkle.  Maybe a sapphire surrounded
    by emeralds?
    
    -Jody
    

more on stones...

RUBY
	Wealth, Power, Protection, Joy, Anti-Nightmare

	The ruby strengthens the body's own psychic defense system when
	worn.

	Ruby jewelry is worn to banish sadness and negative thought
	patterns, and also produces joy, strengthens will-power and
	confidence as well as dispelling fear.

SAPPHIRE
	Psychism, Love, Meditation, Peace, Defensive Magic, Healing,
	Power, Money

	Sapphire is a guardian of love.  That is, it promotes fidelity
	and attunes the feelings between lovers.  Anciently, it was also
	worn to  banish enfy, to promote positive social interaction and
	to reconcile with foes; sapphire can be used for all those 
	purposes within any kind of relationship, not just marital.

	Its onetime usage for promoting chastity is probably also related
	to this; chastity can be viewed as lack of sexual activity outside
	an established relationship.  Star sapphires are thought to be 
	especially effective for drawing or inducing love.

TOPAZ
	Protection, Healing, Weight Loss, Money, Love

	It is considered a specific against enfy, intrigue, disease, injury,
	sudden death, sorcery and negative magic, and lunacy.  Worn, it
	relieves the disturbing emotions.

	Wearing a topaz draws love.

TURQUOISE
	Protection, Courage, Money, Love, Friendship, Healing, Luck

	Turquoise is worn, carried or given to a loved one.  It is 
	frequently used to promote marital harmony, ensuring that the
	two persons involved blend with each other.

ZIRCON
	Protection, Beauty, Love, Peace, Sexual Energy, Healing, Anti-Theft

	CLEAR: Can be substituted for diamond.  Promotes thinking/mental
	processes.
	YELLOW: (Jargon, Jargoon, Ligure): Increases sexual energy or
	attracts love.  Drives away depression, increases alertness.
	ORANGE: (Jacinth, Hyacinth): Increases beauty, stills fears and
	jealousy.  Doubly-powerful when set in gold.

Information is reprinted without permission from  _CRYSTAL, GEM AND METAL
MAGIC_ by Scott Cunningham.

    Re:  Sapphires....didn't Prince Charles give Lady Di a sapphire
    ring when they got engaged???

    
    Diamonds do come from the USSR, Burkina Faso, etc... however these
    are mostly industrial quality. Therefore, they aren't really viable
    sources of gem stones. 
    
    DeBeers not only mines nearly all the world's gem quality stones,
    but also controls the worldwide distribution and marketing. 
    
    No diamond wholesaler would jeopardize their relationship with 
    DeBeers (they lose their "sight", their right to inpsect a selection
    of stones on a periodic basis).

    
    	Re: -.1, last few...
    
    	Well I guess that tears it then, all the liberals out there
    will have to turn in their diamond rings; that'll show 'em in S.A.
    by golly...
    
    	And no more grapes, no more lettuce, no more bananas, no more
    Jaffa oranges, ...
    
    	But coffee and rugs from Nicaragua, baggy pants from China,
    and chic glassware from Czechoslovakia, no sweat, it's politically
    "correct"...
    
    	Excuse me while I fall to the floor laughing hysterically...

    Re: .14
    
         I was wondering when the S.A. supporters would chime in.  Well,
    for the sake of topic linearity, shall we ignore the political aspect
    and just say that for some reason the potential groom/bride does
    not like diamonds?  Then, perhaps, we can focus on the alternate
    stone without becoming a lesser SOAPBOX.
    
                                     Greg

My fiancee (that sounds so French...and so um, stiff and formal; and I were 
originally thinking Lapis lazulai, but we've pretty much decided upon sapphires 
for both of our wedding rings.  My ring might be a plain wedding ring with a 
sapphire engagement ring.

Have any others of you out there made decisions alternate to the diamond with 
which you are happy?

    My girlfriend said that she would prefer a ruby engagement ring.
     But rather than one with one large stone, she prefers one with
    sever smaller stones lined up along the ring.  We looked at some
    the other day and they are pretty.  I may be looking further into
    them around the beginning of the summer.  We'll have to see.
    
    Ed..
    

Ed,

The deeper-red the ruby, the more valuable it is.  Right now, rubies are one of 
the most expensive stones on the market, and the value seems to keep 
appreciating.  So you'll have a good investment.

You may want to check for any Gem and Mineral shows going on nearby you, or go 
to a well-stocked newsstand and pick up one of the lapidiary magazines, which 
will list shows, dates, places.  You can often find very good prices on highly-
priced stones, and you can work out your own setting, often with the people who 
are supplying the stones.  Just an idea for you.

Rubies are also supposed to have a good effect on the blood, as are garnets 
(both are red in color).

         I wonder how much a moon stone would cost?
    
                                       Greg

    Less expensive than rubies, and often found masquerading as them
    (even in the Crown Jewels of England) is the Red Spinel.
    
    Lapis Lazuli is nice, especially if you can find a piece laced with
    foolsgold (pyrite) - they often "grow" together.
    
    Also, semiprecious stones are being seen in settings with more precious
    stones.  I believe Princess Farah of Iran was given a crown of diamonds
    and turquoise several years ago.
    
    -Jody
    

I've had my sapphire for almost 9 years. My ring has the sapphire in the
middle and have three small diamonds clustered on both sides.  When I told
the jeweler what I wanted he tried to talk me out of it.  He said that was
so "untraditional".  Too bad, that was what I wanted. 

I absolutely love it.  I was married before and had the traditional
diamond. People admired it but I never received the compliments I do with
this ring. 

I wear a gold band along with it.  I love diamonds but I wouldn't trade
this for a carat diamond even if I got it for free. 

My sapphire is an Australian and it very dark.

    
    
    A nice clear, brilliant EMERALD makes a nice engagement ring, my
    sister just got engaged and she picked out an Emerald setting with
    a few smaller diamonds surrounding it.... BUT, let me tell you
    Emeralds are even more expensive than diamonds if you buy the finest
    quality emeralds.  The darker (deeper the green), clearer the stone
    the more expensive it will be.  A one carrot emerald can run upwards 
    of 5k if it is of the finest quality and it will appreciate very well
    thru the years.  
    
    Just an opinion/option
    
      

    Re: .22
    
         Now THAT sounds good.  Emeralds sound like viable (and acceptable)
    possibilities.  
    
                                      Greg

I have a silver/moonstone pinky ring that ran me $40.  From what I remember, 
moonstone (did I include it or not?  Brain fade) is representitive of the 
receptive/feminine energy and is used by Wiccans to represent Goddess energy in 
rituals.  It's supposed to be psychic-inducing.

Re; Lapis Lazulai; if it doesn't have flecks of pyrite in it, it's not Lapis 
Lazulai.  Without the pyrite flecks, you've most likely got sodalite, a close 
relative to Lapis Lazulai.

    re .0   Considering the prevalence of oppression in S.A. I think
            it does make sense to find alternatives regarding the
            purchase of goods from that country (which includes diamonds).
    
            I think Debeers dominates the market with over 90% of the
            World's diamonds coming from S.A.
    
            Unless diamonds are unavailable from sources other than
            S.A. (and, by association, DeBeers I suppose), I would 
            still try to get a diamond since that seems to be the
            gem preferred.
    
            
                                                Russ

    Buying diamonds from countries other than South Africa, with the
    exception of the U.S.S.R., does not mean that you aren't buying a diamond
    from Debeers.  They own most of the significant diamond mines in the
    world, including a major deposit in Australia and, if memory serves
    me correctly, one or more in Canada.

        The Australian diamond mine, Argyle Diamonds, is a subsidiary of
        CRA not deBeers. It is also running a higher yeild than the South
        African Mines. I believe Argyle still sell a lot of their product
        thorugh deBeers, though.
        
        q
        

    My wife isn't much for rings anyway, so we decided to forego an
    engagement ring and instead spend some extra money for some really
    nice handmade gold wedding bands.  
    
    Basically, do what *YOU* want to do.  Buy what *YOU* like.  All
    this diamond hype is just that...hype and advertising to sell you
    on the idea that you're "supposed" to buy a diamond.  If you really
    want a diamond engagement ring, fine.   Get one.  If you want a
    saphire, or a ruby, or anything else that has more meaning and/or
    appeal to you, get that.  If you don't particularly care about rings,
    get a necklace or a pin or something instead, or don't get anything
    at all.  From my observations, it won't make a bit of difference
    how the marriage turns out, and that's what really matters in the
    long run.

    My grandmohter's engagement ring was a ruby.  I was told that
    back then the ruby was the "standard" engagement stone.  Red being
    the color of love and all that.  The "standard' got changed to the
    diamond by jewelers.
    
    I have nothing to back this up.  Just what I was told somewhere.
    fred();

    Re .29, yes, it's true that the diamond engagement ring is a fairly
    recent tradition.  In Victorian times other stones were used.
    
    Lorna
     

    Rubies were given as wedding and engagement rings
    because of the biblical reference that a virtuous woman was the
    most highly valued of all; like ruby.  Sorry this is a paraphrase and
    not a direct quote.  I don't have my Bible on me or I'd find the reference.
    
      My Grandmothers and mother-in-law all received ruby rings due to this 
    tradition.  They considered it a sign that their spouses believed them 
    to be the very best and pure.  Diamonds were for the diamond
    anniversary (and for evening wear).