Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    I would love to attend. I'm out of hear at the end of next week, leaving
    for a contract outside DEC. Given the state of the company, there's
    little guarantee that I ever come back, so I'd enjoy the opportunity to
    say "so long." If you haven't posted specifics by 1/31, please leave a
    message on my answering machine at (617) 734-3824 stating when and
    where.
    
    - Hoyt

I'd prefer late February (17th or later), but I'm interested.

			Steve

I'm interested in coming.  Depends on when, though.


Ron

    
    I'd like to come if I may. Hopefully it will not be the 22nd. That is
    my father's surprise 70th birthday and I must go out of town.

    If women are allowed, I'd also like to go.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    I'm with .5, but no pressure.
    
    *honestly*, no pressure.
    
    -Jody
    

Given that women are full and equal participants in this conference, I would
certainly hope that they would feel welcome at a MENNOTES party.  But I
don't know what Christopher had in mind.

			Steve

    Count  me in. So long as it is on a night that I don't have my daughter
    or its on a weekend afternoon. Sounds like allota fun. And desperatly
    needed. Sometimes we can become so deeply intrenched with our politics
    that we forget that we are all people. And that is what is the making
    of our company. It is wounderful to see such a mix of views,
    personalities, and such. I feel, despite what the short comings are at
    the moment with the ecconomy, we will all be here next year if we start
    pulling in the same directions. And it can start with just a friendly
    shake of the hand and a coffie sometimes.
    
    George

    If George will be there, so will I.  We owe each other a cup of coffee
    and a howdy-do.  Right George?
    						- Vick

    RE: .4    ASDG::FOSTER
    
    > Are women allowed?
    
    all participants of this conference are invited and WELCOME!

    I'm interested. [And tempted to show up with a collection of fake
    beards for sale, like the ones in "Life of Brian"...]
    
    -b

    Vick,
    
    	If you ask Jody, brought along my own coffie pot, grinder, and
    coffie beans for the going away party of Charlie. I am a man of my
    word. And would be very much honnered to buy or make you a cup. Yes, I
    would be very much honnered in a coffie with you Vick.
    
    George

I would love to come.....finally meet some of the faces behind the words!

    	Vic H

    It's not really *that* far off ... but .. if this were to take place
    during DECworld (as is the BOXbash) the perhaps some of us foreigners
    would have the opportunity to attend.

    Then again ... it would prevent some of us from attending if it were
    held outside of the DECworld time frame ... perhaps there is merit to
    that?

    Bubba

I'd like to go, too!

Dan

    DECworld and DECUS overlap, and I probably wouldn't be able to attend
    if it were held then.  Perhaps we can have the get-together in
    February, and another in April? 
    
    			Steve

    With apologies to everyone not in traveling distance,
    the party on 29 February 1992 will be in Hudson, Mass
    
    HELP ...
    
    - let's firm up attendance, please start planning
    
    - also, plan to bring a dish to pass, beverages, desserts, etc
      and reply with your contirbution
    
    - ideas for activities, beyond eating and socializing
    
    - I was thinking of starting around 6:00pm and going to 11:00pm
      what does eveyone think ?
    
    - I will have a designated smoking area with a ten-minute time
      limit (-:
    
    - lastly, can I respectfully request that no alcohol be brought
      to the party ??  
    
    looking forward to seeing you all on Feb. 29th, yes it is leap year
    
    

    
    If you've got an oven, I can bring "Tyson's Wings of Fire", and a
    couple hundred appetizer pastries. It will run me about $35, so if
    someone wants to split the tab and be absolved from anything else, 
    let me know.
    

I'll be there along with my wife, Leslie Richardson.  Don't know yet what
I'll bring.

In my experience, it's really not necessary to provide "activities".  Sometimes
people bring guitars and other instruments and have an informal "jam session",
but mostly folks just talk (and eat).

				Steve

    Is it encouraged to bring your SO?  I don't know if she wants to come
    or not, but I'd like to know the general feeling on the matter before
    I ask.
    					- Vick

    If this is held on a weekend, when I have my daughter, I would love to
    bring her. I can make some home made kidney beans. Great stuff! Follow
    it with some pinaples and you can play Hawiian music!:)

    Massive bummer: that's the only weekend during which I have plans
    (Florida) for the rest of future history. I suppose that 2/22 is
    impossible for some other very good reason?
    
    - Hoyt

    I'm in.

    
    take notes fer me, eh mike .. ?

Sorry, can't make it due to schedule conflict.  Maybe next time.

    Welp. So far so good. What time is this shin-dig gonna happen. Or did I
    miss reading that?? I got my daughter, I got some beans, and I am ready
    to find some pineapples!!! Look out Don Hoi! 

    Barring unforeseen catastrophes (or offers of tickets to a Celtics
    game), I plan to be there. I'll bring something - guacamole, or a
    salad - will negotiate if we turn out to be lacking in some area.
    
    Suggestions for things to do: In the spirit of this conference, why
    doesn't somebody bring one of those "Scruples" or "Tell the Truth"
    games, where we can debate one another's honesty and ethics? ;-)
    
    -b

    
    I'll bring chips and salsa.
    
    -Jody

    .27
    
    Bring games of honesty and ethics?? Want to start WWIII????:) Just
    funning. Sounds fun.

    Another party I will miss.  Another party that will miss me. :-)
    
    Rats.

    
    What with possible unscheduled business trips, family, etc
    please put me down as hoping to attend, not sure yet.
    
    						Hank

Had small hopes of attending, but now that the date is set I have an
irreconcilable conflict; I'll be in Southern California for a wedding
that weekend.  Have fun, folks.

DougO

    I believe that I will be able to make it.
    
    Rich

    RE: .20 
    > Is it encouraged to bring your SO?
    
    Steve (quark::lionel) is bringing his wife, George (aimhi::rauh)
    is bringing his daughter, and I have asked my SO 
    
    

	 This sounds like a good time.

	 I'll mark my calendar.

	
	kits
	 

    RSVPs ... as of 1/30/92
    
    asdg::foster
    delni::sthilaire    	Lorna
    gnuvax::bobbitt	        Jody	        	!chips & salsa
    aimhi::rauh	        	George & daughter	!kidney beans
    gooey::bennison     	Vic
    dtif::rust	        	Beth
    senio::hamburger    	Vic
    zfc::deramo	        	Dan
    quark::lionel		Steve & Leslie
    milkwy::zarlenga    	Mike
    hannah::modica		Hank
    starch::whalen		Rich
    caboom::jimc                Jim 
    iamok::mitchell		Kits
    willee::skowronek	        Debby & daughter	!party mix 

     

>    gooey::bennison     	Vic
    
    Make that:
    
    gooey::bennison     	Vick and Nancy	!black bean hummus (sp?)
    				   ^     ^^^^^
    
    			Thanks,  - Vick

    
    Guess I forgot to mention....If I can make it, my wife Lynn will
    be with me.
    
    						Thx
    
    							Hank

    What time?? I am gotta know! What time guys and gals? I want to secual
    time to nap or not to nap daughter. I wanna make shure she is in a good
    mood. Or it will be a short night for us.
    
    Signed the Keeper of the nappies
    George

    I'll be there if possible. Taco Salad.
    
    Ken

    I'll be there with my SO. 
    
    Brenda

  
  I'll be there, may bring my son. Will bring Chile Con Queso & Chips (-:

  michelle

    RSVPs as of 02/11/92
    
    wmois::reinke 	Bonnie &
    asdg::foster
    delni::sthilaire  	Lorna
    gnuvax::bobbitt	Jody			!chips & salsa
    aimhi::rauh		George & daughter	!kidney beans
    gooey::bennison  	Vick & Nancy		!black bean humus
    dtif::rust		Beth
    senio::hamburger	Vic
    zfc::deramo		Dan
    quark::lionel	Steve & Leslie
    milkwy::zarlenga	Mike
    hannah::modica	Hank & Lynn
    starch::whalen	Rich
    caboom::jimc        Jim 
    iamok::mitchell	Kits
    willee::skowronek	Debby & daughter	!party mix 
    salem::kupton	John			!taco salad
    mlcsse::mahon	Brenda &  
    elwood::deveraux    Michelle &              !chile 

    Put me down as a 'maybe' 
    
    Dana Charbonneau aka SA1794::CHARBONND

    i'm a fer sure ==> some soup.  do we have critical mass for veggie
    borscht or should i do a normal stew?
    
    lee t

RSVP's  as of 02/17/92

wmois::reinke		Bonnie
asdg::foster
delni::sthilaire  	Lorna
gnuvax::bobbitt		Jody			!chips & salsa
aimhi::rauh		George & daughter	!kidney beans
gooey::bennison  	Vick & Nancy		!black bean humus
dtif::rust		Beth
senio::hamburger	Vic
zfc::deramo		Dan
quark::lionel		Steve & Leslie
milkwy::zarlenga	Mike
hannah::modica		Hank & Lynn
starch::whalen		Rich
caboom::jimc            Jim 
iamok::mitchell		Kits
willee::skowronek	Debby & daughter	!party mix 
salem::kupton		John			!taco salad
mlcsse::mahon		Brenda &  
elwood::deveraux        Michelle & son          !chile
sa1794::charbonnd       Dana
viking::tatisfcheff     Lee                     !soup

    Let's start a list of additional items we will need for next weekend
    
    ( How about takers for picking some of these up ? )
    
    
    - paper items  ( plates, cups, napkins, etc )
    
    - beverages    ( water, juice )
    
    - name tags
    
    
    ?? OTHERS ??
    

    
    P.S ...
    
    I forgot to add, NO alcohol and for those that smoke,
    there will be a designated smoking area (-:
    
    

    What time?? The asked question with no answer. :)

    RE: -1
    
    see .17
    

    Thanks! Sometimes I need to read it. Right! :) Shut up George, read
    it....:)

>I forgot to add, NO alcohol

 Why is that? (He asked, at the risk of seeming insensitive.)

    
    No alcohol??
    Sounds good.
    Kindly remove my name from the list. Thanks
    
    							Hank

.49>    I forgot to add, NO alcohol and for those that smoke,

    This went from a request to a credo?

    I guess I'll be going the way of Mr Modica if it's more than a request.

    re the alcohol, I can understand not wanting everybody to get totally
    drunk out of their minds, but can't see the harm of people having a
    beer or a wine.  Just my opinion, people certainly have a right to
    request no alcohol in their own homes.  (sometimes it just seems as
    though Digital parties get duller and duller as the year go by, tho...)
    
    Lorna
    

    
    I have been looking forward to this due primarily in part that
    I am probably one of the newest residents in New England
    
    I have offered to open up my residence to you people, whom I do not
    even know. This is more of a concern to me than if you do or do not 
    drink alcohol
    
    However, if drinking alcohol will keep all the guests in
    attendance and provide the majority with a 'non-dull' (?)
    evening then maybe an alternate site and a new host or hostess 
    should be sought from amongst you
    
    christopher

    Please remove me from the list.

    Why does anyone have to have alcohol to have a good time?  I thought
    the purpose of the party was to meet, socialize, get to know fellow
    noters.  Why cancel because there won't be any alcohol at the party?
    
    FWIW.
    
    Karen-who-will-be-there-in-spirit

    I'm looking forward to the opportunity to test my skill at overcoming
    my shyness at a party of people I've never met without the aid of an
    alcoholic lubricant.  Almost a new experience for me.  :^)  See (most
    of) you there, I hope.
    						- Vick

  christopher,

  If you're still hosting the party, you can still count me and my son in.

  WRT alcohol vs. no alcohol parties:

  I too, do not understand why alcohol is necessary to "have a good time". I've
  attended several DEC related parties over the years, both with/without alco-
  hol present. It has never even occured to me to question the host's motives,
  or to make comments like, "This went from a reqest to a credo?" and "Digital
  parties get duller and duller", just because the host chose not to allow
  alcohol in his/hir home. I think that's rude. In fact, if I felt that all
  parties I attended should allow alcohol, then I would just go to the parties
  that allowed it. I sure as h*ll wouldn't insult the host about it! SHEESH!

I'll bring banana bread (without nuts).  I'll also bring preprinted (and some
blank) nametags; if you want a nametag, please send me mail with your name
(first and last) the way you want it to appear, name(s) of any guests/spouse/SO
you're bringing with you, and your node::username as you want it to appear.
If you've seen the nametags at past HR or Womannotes parties, these will be
similar.

I'll also bring Pepsi and some flavored seltzers.

				Steve

    
    Though I have requested that my name be removed from the list because
    the host has stipulated that no alcohol will be served, please do not
    conclude that I require alcohol to have a good time, that alcohol
    is necessary, or however you'd prefer to phrase it.
    
    I respect the hosts wishes and can certainly understand his
    point of view. 
    
    Though I'm tempted to explain my reaction, I don't feel it would
    be appropriate in this topic. I hope you all have a great time
    and I'll look forward to meeting you in the future.
    
    					Thanks, regards
    
    							Hank

    Hank,
    First you make a public scene announcing that you won't come to a party
    without booze and then you say you won't tell us why.  Why didn't you
    just tell the host off-line that you couldn't come afterall?  If you
    are trying to make some kind of statement, why not make it?
    
    The above may sound angry, but it's not, and a smiley face is not
    appropriate.  What the above is trying to express is my confusion
    about the way you handled this.  I don't understand the issue.  Is it
    about Digital policy?
    						- Vick

    
    Vick,
    
    	Kindly show me where I made a public scene.
    	I acknowledged the hosts intentions and as politely as
    	I could, I asked that my name be removed from the list.
    	
    	Why didn't I contact the host off-line??
    	Simple. I didn't think of it. I read the note where the
    	host explained his wishes and I replied here.
    
    	As to why I won't make my statement here..
    	because this the party note and I don't wish to rathole it
    	any further. I thought I had expressed that as
    	politely as I could also.
    
    	Public scene?? Good grief!
    
    							Hank

 What a big to-do about a simple question. I just wanted to know why the
host directed that no alcohol be allowed at his party. This is the first
time I've heard such a request made for a noters party, and I was curious
as to why the request was made in the first place. Obviously, the host
is under no obligation to explain why he wants his party that way, and judging
from .57 he does not wish to explain. No big deal to me; I would not have
been able to attend anyway.

 I find the subsequent accusations from some quarters that people who ask
why no alcohol to be entirely in line with my expectations. I also find
such accusations to be groundless, knee-jerk reactions.

 No matter. It was just a question.

    re .67, what irritates me is that you think my name is Susan.
    
    re the alcohol request, as of now, I still plan to attend, regardless
    of whether alcohol is allowed or not.  I certainly don't need liquor in
    order to have a good time, but sometimes I think a glass of wine or a
    beer or two can help to set a relaxed mood amongst strangers.
    
    However, I'll bring grapes and some coke classic.
    
    Lorna
    

    Geez, all this whoop-te-do over a simple decision?
    
    I'm sure y'all will get along just fine without my shining presence.
    
    
.67>What irritated me, was Mike's "credo" remark and Susan's "dull" remark.
    
    Huh?  Is there something wrong with what I said or how I said it?
    
    Geez, I didn't mean to "irritate" you.

    RE: .66
    
    Mine was a benign request
    
    I would have thought a black tie request would have caused
    many of your more pain (-:
    
    I do not acquiesce on my house rules but to show some flexibility
    I will move the party from my home, to a more public space
    and thus there would be no house rules towards alcohol
    
    Directions to RSVPs will be via e-mail
    
    

    I can understand why no alcohol. Someone gets pie-eyed, crashs a car
    into something/someone on the way home. Who gets the blame? Who is
    liable? Certainly not the driver! The host! Imagine also, to some of
    you. Two full sized men. 200+ pounds, something is taken out of
    contents. And your not going to stop it with a friendly cattle prod or
    a handgun. Bonnie and some of the gang have seen me. I am no way a real
    big man in statue. But imagine, those who have seen me. Try to stop
    a couple of guys my size. Then there are going to be children. Children
    who have not been around the social atmosphere of the Dec crouds. I
    think that its a wise idea not to do the alcohol on this one. I
    certainly will be attending. And thank the host for his good judgement
    call on this first Mennotes get together.
    
    George

    I can think of a zillion legitimate reasons why not to allow alcohol in 
    one's home.  
    					- Vick

    >No alcohol??
    >Sounds good.
    >Kindly remove my name from the list. Thanks
    >
    							Hank
    
    This public statement is a polite way to inform your prospective 
    host that you've changed your mind about accepting his hospitality???
    
    Not where I grew up.  
    
    The first sentence implies the host is wrong or ungracious or something
    to exclude alcohol.  The second sentence is sarcasm.  The third
    sentence is curt.  And the forth sentence is, therefore, unconvincing
    as to its sincerity.
    					- Vick

>    I can think of a zillion legitimate reasons why not to allow alcohol in 
>    one's home.  

 And I was only asking for one.

    1.  One's personal belief that alcohol is evil.
    2.  One's religious belief that alcohol is evil.
    3.  One's fear of legal culpability if anyone is hurt driving home.
    4.  One's fear of personal guilt feelings if anyone were hurt driving
    	home.
    5.  One's memory of an alcoholic parent.
    6.  One's own alcoholism.
    7.  The alcoholism of another member of the family.
    8.  Previous bad experience at a party where alcohol was served.
    9.  Trying to set an example for children in one's family.
    
    Okay, fewer than a zillion, but I think I could come up with more.
    You will note that I didn't mention company policy, because I don't
    think it applies here, but I could be wrong.
    
    					- Vick

Gee, why didn't people complain about the restrictions on smoking?  I think
that it's rather rude of people to insist that Christopher rationalize for
their benefit the rules of his home.  I'm sure that he's wondering why he
ever volunteered to host the party in the first place.

If anyone feels that they cannot attend, they should simply say so.  There
is no need to give a reason or to announce publicly one's distaste for
the hosts house rules.

				Steve

    re .76, my memory of growing up in a home where my parents
    believed that even  drinking a sip of wine was evil incarnate may have
    something to do with my feelings on the issue, too.
    
    Lorna
    
    ps - But, if George thinks he might become violent if booze is allowed
    then for god's sakes let's stick to soft drinks and coffee!  :-)
    (I'm kidding.  This is not a nasty gram!)
    

    I agree with Steve and George etal
    
    It is rude. 

    .77 Well said Steve.
    
    .78 Lorna,
    
    	Me? Violent?:) Naw! I am worse under caffine than acholol. :)

re: Note 736.74       
by DSSDEV::BENNISON "Victor L. Bennison DTN 381-2156 Z" 

   > >No alcohol??
   > >Sounds good.
   > >Kindly remove my name from the list. Thanks
   > >
   >							Hank
    
    >This public statement is a polite way to inform your prospective 
    >host that you've changed your mind about accepting his hospitality???
    
    >Not where I grew up.  
    
    >The first sentence implies the host is wrong or ungracious or something
    >to exclude alcohol.  The second sentence is sarcasm.  The third
    >sentence is curt.  And the forth sentence is, therefore, unconvincing
    >as to its sincerity.
    >

    >					- Vick

	I see you want to beat this to death Vick. Fine.
	I mentioned earlier I didn't want to rathole this topic
	but you don't seem to want to let it go. Why is that Victor???

	Anyhow, since I wrote it, I'll explain what I meant.
	The first sentence asks "No Alcohol??" It implies nothing
	except surprise at the request.

	The second sentence says "Sounds good". This means that
	I do indeed understand the hosts wishes, I respect his wishes,
	and do not wish to comment negatively on his choice of house rules.

	My (3rd) final sentence says "Kindly remove my name from the list.
	Thanks"
	Now tell me Vick, is there a nicer way to request removing
	my name from the list??? Was it the "kindly" that is so curt??
	Or was it the "thanks" that was so offensive??

	Next time you want to interpret a note of mine, don't.
	You've shown here that you fail miserably when you do.	
	

 Vick apparently felt you were being sarcastic, Hank. This is just another
example of the limitations of electronic communications (both the inability
to convey inflection and the ease with which one can be confrontational
electronically without taking the risks that similar comments in person would 
entail.) 

        To those who rsvp'd after .17 ...
        
>    - I will have a designated smoking area with a ten-minute time
>      limit (-:
>    
>    - lastly, can I respectfully request that no alcohol be brought
>      to the party ??  
        
	... and then un-rsvp'd after .49 ...
            
>    I forgot to add, NO alcohol and for those that smoke,
>    there will be a designated smoking area (-:
        
        ... I'm curious.  Were you planning to bring alcohol anyway,
        despite the host's request?
        
        Dan

    Actually, Dan, I missed the original request, I signed up, then when I
    went looking for the date and time, I figured well, it's only a request
    and not a demand, and then I realized it was more than a request.

    For those who are worried that the party will degenerate into a drunken
    slugfest (!!!), Steve Lionel's parties have never been dry, and I can't
    remember any problems at all - I've been to 3 of them.

    Anyway, maybe I'll catch y'all at the next one.

    I would like to attend...only if Chris hosts the party...
    
    I would *not* attend if the location were changed because he does not
    want alcohol in his home.
    
    I will bring chili for chickens.

It's true that none of the parties I've hosted have ever had problems with
alcohol, but I can remember only too well an earlier HR party which certainly
did.  However, it is not our business to make judgements on a host's house
rules, either you can live with them and you'll attend, or you can't and you
won't.

For what it's worth, DEC policy about alcohol consumption does not apply to
noters' parties.

I'd like to ask that there be no more "requests for explanation", either of
Christopher or of those who objected to the "no alcohol" request.

				Steve

    
    I guess diplomacy does not work in this part of the country
    so I will now respond in kind, something I would prefer not
    to do
    
    I do not appreciate the second guessing, it has gone from
    amusing to boring
    
    I make a benign request and it is meet with a childish foot-stomping
    and head-shaking ... not what I would have expected from supposedly
    mature adults
    
    To those who remain obstinate that I explain ...
    
    If you cannot respect this request, then I would not want you
    any where near my neighborhood or my doorsteps
    Thanks for showing that any interaction with you would
    be one-sided
    
    To those who are attending and to the rest of the audience,
    please excuse my inability to remain courteous 
    

    good for you

re.88 
>    I make a benign request and it is meet with a childish foot-stomping
>    and head-shaking ... not what I would have expected from supposedly
>    mature adults
    
    I'm adult enough that I resent being told, in effect, that I'm not old
    enough to decide for myself whether or not to drink.
        
>    To those who remain obstinate that I explain ...
    
>    If you cannot respect this request, then I would not want you
>    any where near my neighborhood or my doorsteps
>    Thanks for showing that any interaction with you would
>    be one-sided
 
    Your continued refusal does indeed make interaction one-sided.   
    

    This is the first time I've seen so much to do about some
    simple questions and decisions.
    
    My god, people decide not to attend, people decide to inquire
    why the party will be dry, and all hell breaks loose.
    
    Most people do not react that way.

>    I make a benign request and it is meet with a childish foot-stomping
>    and head-shaking

 I don't know how I could have phrased .53 more politely. The question
was completely ignored, as if it hadn't been asked. That, sir, is rude.
Even "I'd rather not get into it" is better than pretending the question
didn't exist. If anyone is at fault for this burgeoning rathole, it is
the person to whom the question was originally posed who completely
avoided the issue. At this point, one could argue that you have addressed
the issue by attacking the questioners. Implicitly it is understood that 
you are unwilling to discuss the issue, which is actually fine. However,
it is quite clear that this issue would not have erupted had you at least 
had the courtesy to explicitly refuse to address the situation. At least
then the inevitable speculation would have occurred behind the scenes.

 In addition, it simply cannot be accurately described as a benign request.
It is an order. Which is fine. It's your house. If I were to have a party
at my house, there would be no smoking inside. That's my rule.

 I don't know what your reasons are for making such a rule, and at this 
point it is not important. You most obviously have strong reasons behind
your rule. What I do know is that the original question was valid, and
was phrased in a polite and sensitive manner. Your reaction to that
question was anything but courteous and respectful. Which is, after all,
your choice. But reading your tantrum in .88 describing the question
and subsequent brouhaha as being "childish foot-stomping" was pretty
damn funny. I only hope the irony was intentional.

 the Doctah

    RE: .90
    
    Dana,
    
        I'm trying to plan an evening for a short period of time
        (4 - 5 hours) that can be enjoyed by all concerned
    
        If you review the guest list there are children, which I
        personally feel is wonderful that their parents would bring
        them
    
        I also notice spouses on the list, this tells me they are not
        DIGITAL, so I need to make the time enjoyable for them also
    
        The addition of alcohol, seriously complicates, and could
        potentially cause more harm
    
        I would personally like to keep my blood pressure down
        and have everyone enjoy themseleves
    
        If others want to know more about what type of person I'am
        then you will have to come over to PKO3 and question me
        to determine if I'am a suitable host for you
    
    Dana, I apologize that you feel that a decision is being made
    for you, but who apologizes to me for the this 'host screening'
    process ?
    
    Is this how people get welcomed to New England ???

    re.93 Thanks for the explanation.

    I don't understand why not permitting alcohol would have a negative effect
    on a party.

    		Alfred

    re:  .96 by VMSSPT::NICHOLS
    
    I usually don't butt in especially when I had not EVER planned on going
    to this house party-- alcohol or no alcohol.  BUT I take immense
    offense at your last paragraph referring to the people who declined
    because of the no alcohol edict.  How dare you imply that someone has a
    drinking problem??
    
    -Dotti.

>>How dare you imply that someone has a drinking problem??

>    I do not think this is an issue you can win. 
>    I believe that people who choose NOT to do something because alchohol
>    will not be available have an alchohol problem.

 He's right, you know, Dotti. You can't win. If he believes the sky is made
of blue gelatin, arguing that it isn't won't make you "win" (at least in
his eyes.)

    Man.  Only in notes can one person's respectful request and another
    person's respectful decline degenerate into this muck.
    
    Just once I'd like to see someone get the benefit of the doubt around
    here.

  	This is unreal !  A man is new to New England. He has 
	opened his home in order to be hospitable and friendly,
	for people to get together. A man's home is his castle.
	Whatever restrictions he has regarding what he allows
	in his home, is his right. 

	If you don't like it, then just decline and shut up.

	Where is the respect that we should all have for one
	another? He does not want liquor in his home. Why does
	this have to be questioned? Why can't it just be accepted?

	If he were Japanese and requested that everyone removed
	their shoes before entering into his home, would you
	question this too?

	kits
	

    re:.103
    
    Well, Kits, that's just what I did.
    
    And then I found out such a reaction means I have a drinking problem.
    
    Rather that complain that it's a dry party, I bowed out, but that
    act alone was enough to label me as a "foot stomper" and person
    with a "drinking problem."
    
    I mean, REALLY now!

    >I haven't been able to think of any OTHER reason for deciding not to go
    >BECAUSE no alcohol will be available.

    >If others can offer some alternate sensible hypotheses (conclusions, in
    >human parlance) I am open to hearing them.

    First I just want to say that I have no problem with someone having
    a dry party.  I have attended dry parties and have had a good time.
    I will not be attending this party because I will be busy.

    Second, I think it is rude to question a host's house-rules, especially
    when they concern alcohol; given common knowledge about problems with 
    alcohol in our society and how personal such issues can be.  This implies 
    nothing about the host, BTW - a most gracious person to have 1) offered
    to host a party and 2) have reacted as calmly as he did to what's happened 
    here.  Christopher, I hope your perception of New Englanders hasn't been 
    permanently damaged.

    That being said, I would like to offer a possible explanation for
    why someone would choose NOT to go to party BECAUSE no alcohol would
    be available.

    There are people who prefer the taste as well as the effects of
    alcohol - some even prefer just the taste and carefully control
    their intake to avoid the effects.  In either event, if a person were
    to be invited to a gathering and that gathering was not high on a list
    of priorities, I do not think it unreasonable to "rate" the party
    according to things one finds pleasurable.  If one prefers to enjoy
    a cold beer while socializing and has <n> number of social events to
    choose from, it doesn't seem odd to me that one would choose the event 
    where one could enjoy beverages of one's choice.

    *If* the event held some significance and the person *still* refused
    based on a lack of alcoholic beverages, *then* I would agree that
    person most probably has a drinking problem.  For instance, I would
    be very suspicious of someone who refused to attend a family member's
    wedding BECAUSE of a no-alcohol rule.  I would think sharing the
    celebration would supercede any desire one might have to enjoy a
    particular beverage or particular "sensation" caused by such a
    beverage.  The lasting memories of a loving event are more important
    in my opinion than momentary physical pleasure (perhaps someone could
    argue the reverse...I'd be interested to see it).

    Another possible reason why someone might avoid a dry party is that
    they had a previous, negative experience at a dry party.  Perhaps
    they have associated some quality they don't like with the majority 
    of people who attend dry parties?  I admit this is rather prejudicial
    but it isn't necessarily indicative of a drinking problem.

    Do these sound like sensible hypotheses? (Note that I'm not asking if 
    the actual reasons seem sensible - in the first instance, I think
    it *is* sensible to just do something that you prefer - in the second,
    I think it isn't sensible to make broad generalizations about people).

    /Greg 

    Gadfrey, what a connntry!

    RE: .108  Herb
    
    I can think of reasons why someone would not want to attend a "dry"
    party (and I don't have a drinking problem.)  
    
    In fact, I don't drink at all (except perhaps once every 3-5 years.)  
    
    (I just never acquired a taste for it.)
    
    Please stop insinuating that folks who'd rather not go to a "dry"
    party have a drinking problem, ok?  
    
    My guess is that they'd simply rather be somewhere else that night.

    
    Well, Herb, I can think of different reasons one might opt not to
    attend a party at which no alcohol was allowed to be served aside from
    the possibility that one has "an alcohol problem."
    
    I think that Mr. Schuler's examples are sufficient counterexamples to
    prove the point, but if you are dying to hear some straight from me,
    send mail. Further explorations of various hypotheses are likely to
    cause greater distress to the host of the party than this string has
    already caused, and are unnecessary.

    speaking of stress ...
    
    It is quite apparent that I do not know what peoples expectations are
    I just hope it is not too late to ask these questions
    
    
    What have past parties been like
    
    What goes on
    
    What would everyone like to have at this party
    
    What are the expectations
    
    
    

    re: .100
    
    I'm not trying to "win" or even to argue with him.  It just offended me
    that he could make such a statement.
    
    Whatever the reasons are for anyone to decide not to attend this party
    regarding alcohol, I have to respect their choice. PERIOD.  Who are we
    to judge someone else's behavior?  And the same goes for the host of
    this party and his choice.  
    
    -Dotti.
    
    
    

    Hey guys. Lets put some cold water on this. This discussion is truly in
    poor taste. Lets start another topic on the conversation of dry
    gathering than continue on with this sniping and bickering in this
    note. It Just Doesn't Matter if our host wants a dry party or not.
    Thats his/her call not ours.
    
    With Respect
    George

Christopher,

This is the first MENNOTES party, but I've hosted four HUMAN_RELATIONS parties
at my home, with as many as 70 people attending.  Everyone was well behaved
and people just had good times wandering around, talking, sharing the food
and beverage, and some took out musical instruments and played them while others
listened or sang along.  I would expect much the same for this party, especially
as many of the people signed up for this party have been at past HR parties.

The idea is just to provide an opportunity for people to meet and talk in 
person.

			Steve

    Re .112: This is a very limited polling sample, but in my experience,
    noters' parties consist of lots of talking, lots of "Oh, so _you're_
    NODENAME::USERNAME - you don't look anything like I imagined!" (or,
    "I'd have known you anywhere!"), more talking, from quips'n'quotes to
    some pretty earnest debates, and a fairly steady flow of eating and
    drinking, be it munchies or a buffet dinner, Coke or beer or tap water.
    (Doesn't matter that much to me what the beverages are, as long as I
    have something to keep me from going hoarse from talking so much!)
    It helps if there's room to circulate, so people can join one of the
    debates or abandon one for the latest movie-review discussion, or
    switch in mid-conversation to the "did you see the article on..." chat.
    
    And that's what "noter's party" means to me. (Looking forward to this
    one.)
    
    -b

    Re: .112
    
    Chris,
    
    	The last two notes explain it well.
    	I think you'll find that noters are a great bunch of people
    	and I'm sure your party will be a success. It's very kind
    	of you to host this and I'd expect everyone to have a great time.
    	Welcome to New England. Best wishes for the party.
    
    					Kindest regards
    
    							Hank

    
    I had concerns when I hosted Charles' going away party, about drinking,
    and how it would affect the party.  I think it's interesting that it
    didn't even seem to merit any questions or response....I don't comment
    either way, and i'm not making it be tremendously meaningful to myself,
    but I'm just finding it interesting.
    
    -Jody
    
    
            <<< QUARK::NOTES_DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]MENNOTES.NOTE;2 >>>
                         -< Topics Pertaining to Men >-
================================================================================
Note 693.0                Until next time (not goodbye)               21 replies
OXNARD::HAYNES "Charles Haynes"                      27 lines   4-DEC-1991 15:45
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Some of you must be getting awfully tired of seeing this. My apologies.]

.
    .
    .
     The party will be a pot-luck, please RSVP to Jody (LEZAH::BOBBITT) to
let her know if you're coming and what you'll bring. We have an upper limit of
50 attendees, so please RSVP to Jody to get directions and give us a count.
Smoking will be allowed on the back porch, drinking to excess is strongly
discouraged. (I want to TALK to people dammit, and talking to drunk people is
boring.)
    .
    .
    .

    RE: .110
    
>    I can think of reasons why someone would not want to attend a "dry"
>    party (and I don't have a drinking problem.)  
    
    Like what? Honestly I can't think of one. Of course I have trouble
    understanding why people drink in the first place so please understand
    that we have a different reference point.
    
    			Alfred

    re.117 ...and noters are usually so much _nicer_ in person ;-)

    RE: .120
    
    Alfred - I suggested some reasons in .107.
    
    /Greg

    re .124, I agree.  I feel that the reason I can go to a party and not
    worry about having 1 or 2 drinks is because I *don't* have a drinking
    problem.  I've always been a light social drinker, never drink alone,
    and never been remotely prone to addiction.  Therefore, I can enjoy
    having one or 2 drinks on occasion without worrying about it.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    	::ZARLENGA HAS NO DRINKING PROBLEM....
    
    	he drinks....
    
    	falls down....
    
    
    	no problem....

    RE: .122 Thanks for the pointer. I don't follow this conference
    too closely and didn't see that note. So if I understand you it's
    like someone not going to a party because they're serving Pepsi 
    and not Coke? Still seems like much ado over nothing.
    
    		Alfred

    Re: .129 
    Dance all you want to Herb. Your notes stand as unwarranted
    unfounded and unnecessary extrapolations.
    
    As I said in the now write-locked rathole topic, your incorrect
    assumptions say more about you than those you disparaged.
    And I'm quite happy to let that distinction stand.
    
    I'd also like to ask the moderators why we can not have a rathole
    topic in mennotes. When this whole tangent started I felt
    regret that I had been somewhat responsible and I really wish
    that those notes could have been redirected (or moved)to another topic so
    that this topic could stay on the subject.
    I'd like to ask that you reconsider your policy on this. Thanks. 

Re: .132

If you want to trade accusations with someone, please do it somewhere else
other than this conference.



Re: all

I would appreciate it if there were NO more entries here regarding people's
motives for attending or not attending.

					Steve

    
    Well Steve, I didn't want to trade accusations with anyone.
    I was trying to defend myself against what I considered unfair
    characterizations of my motives.
    
    Seems it's ok to to make the most personal and damaging
    charges against people here and yet defending oneself is
    not discouraged.
    
    Well, I won't defend myself any longer as I won't be noting
    here again. To those who've been offended by my notes, I offer
    my sincerest apologies. To those who have attacked me, and
    unjustly accused me, no problem.
    
    					Best wishes to all, bye bye.
    
    							Hank

	Oh great !  Now look what you all did !  Hank Modica
	who is one the nicest human beings around has decided
	to leave this conference. 

	And, I also feel that both Hank Modica and Mike Zarlenga
	were unjustly accused and attacked when they very POLITELY
	stated that they would not go to the party. NO ONE had
	any right to try to second guess what their motives were.
	
	I feel that those responsible owed both Hank and Mike
	an apology.
	

    
	kits

.134>  <<< Note 736.134 by VMSSPT::NICHOLS "conferences are like apple barrels" >>>
.134>
.134>    I have seen the words "unfounded, and unwarranted", and "unnecessary".
.134>    Had I seen the word "untrue", then a long time ago, I would have
.134>    publicly erupted in joy that my warning was unnecessary.
    
    Now you've gone too far, Herb.

    Do you think you are free to state that fellow employees whom you
    have never met or known have drinking problems and then justify
    the claim because the accused have not answered your charges?

    Now I DO have a problem, Herb, a real problem, and I can assure
    you that it's not drinking.

    	Let's hope this doesn't cause a matter vs. anti-matter explosion
    	of every molecule in the universe or anything, but...
    
                    [drum roll]...
    
          I agree with Mike Zarlenga's reply .138.
    
    	  Herb, you went too far.
    

    Could everyone please respect the moderators request and please drop
    it?  
    
    Karen

    Too late for that.

now, what did I *tell* Herb about making comments like that?

689.38> ...But what I WILL NOT ACCEPT is for you to hurl unproven charges at 
  > my moral character just because you don't have a clue about where my 
  > questions are leading.  It is personally insulting, it violates the 
  > decorum typically observed in the file, and it can and will be career 
  > limiting for you if you happen to aggravate someone who doesn't feel 
  > up to publicly spanking you, but seeks redress through official channels.

I suggest that implying someone publicly identifiable has an alcohol problem
can easily be interpreted as implying they have a moral failing, even if it
doesn't mean that to Herb.  As such, its another of those out-of-bounds things
Herb has said before...and remains objectionable for all of the same reasons.
Doesn't look like Michael is going to go to the effort of a public spanking.

DougO

    this could be true confession...but I entered a reply indicating I was
    attending the party to support Chris.  I thought that he had his own
    reasons for having the party dry and I wanted him to know I understood.
    
    I am uncomfortable that he seems to feel that a dry party will
    eliminate certain behaviors.  It would seem far more appropriate to 
    describe the behaviors that are not acceptable in his home and allow
    his guests to determine how to meet his request.
    
    an interesting aside, if I bring a bottle of wine to a party...it never 
    gets finished.  If I bring sparkling water and limes it is history
    before the party is over.
    
    sigh...

    RE: .131 (Alfred)
    
    >it's like someone not going to a party because they're serving Pepsi 
    >and not Coke?
    
    Yup.
    
    >Still seems like much ado over nothing.
    
    I agree.
    
    /Greg

From:	VMSSPT::NICHOLS      "conferences are like apple barrels" 22-FEB-1992 11:37:27.27
To:	heyyou::zarlenga,hannah::modica
CC:	nichols,NICHOLS
Subj:	736.n mennotes

    I deeply regret the brouhaha caused by my entries in 736. They have
    been deleted, some by me, some by a moderator at my request.



    				herb

    On Saturday 22 Feb, I rented the use of a nearby community room
    it has a kitchen and adjoining mens and womens bathrooms

    They request that smoking be outdoors and that everything is
    returned to its condition prior to our departure, which means
    there is a need for a cleanup crew

    The only restriction on alcohol is your judgment

    Guests may start arriving at 6:00 pm and we need to be cleaned up
    and departed by 11:30 pm

    Directions to RSVPs via e-mail

    If you have any questions or require further information
    please call me, Thank you

    Chris:
    If you mean Saturday ->29<- Feb, then my wife and I will still be
    attending.  
    
    Everyone else:
    
    I think I speak for the other moderators in requesting that:
    
    	1.  Everyone please refrain from making ANY comments in this
    	    conference on our host's decision.  He's been through enough.
        2.  If you are no longer planning to attend, then send your 
    	    regrets off-line via email to the host.  
        3.  There be no discussion of the hall rental fee in this conference 
    	    (that means you too, Chris).  It will be determined off-line 
    	    if Chris will allow us to help defray the cost and any
    	    collection will be done at the party and will be voluntary and
    	    passively inconspicuous.
    
    Have I forgotten anything?  If so, comments to me off-line via email
    please.
    
    					- Vick

    Directions were just sent to the following individuals
    remember I haven't lived here long, so if you need clarification
    please ask
    
    All I have for music is soul and jazz so if you have favorite
    CDs, please bring them
    
    Also, have we forgotten anything ... let me know
    
    
    wmois::reinke_b		!Bonnie
    asdg::foster		!Lauren
    school::bobbitt		!Jody			!chips & salsa
    aimhi::rauh	         	!George & daughter	!kidney beans
    gooey::bennison		!Vick & Nancy		!black bean humus
    dtif::rust		        !Beth
    zfc::deramo	         	!Dan
    quark::lionel		!Steve & Leslie		!banana bread
    starch::whalen		!Rich
    caboom::jimc		!Jim 
    iamok::mitchell		!Kits
    willee::skowronek   	!Debby & daughter	!party mix 
    salem::kupton		!John			!taco salad
    mlcsse::mahon		!Brenda &  
    frsure::devereaux	        !Michelle & son		!chile
    sa1794::charbonnd    	!Dana
    viking::tatistcheff	        !Lee			!soup
    giamem::jlamotte                                    !chile for chickens

I've only heard from two people regarding nametags - if you don't tell
me otherwise, I'll use the names and nodes as shown on Christopher's list.
I'd appreciate knowing the names of "&" guests not already shown (first and
last) so I can make tags for them.  Please send me mail with the information.

				Steve

    Okay.  I have determined, by talking to Chris off-line, that the 
    community hall rental fee is a non-issue, as it amounted to a
    security deposit which will be refunded if we leave the place clean.
    
    					- Vick

	re ::BENNISON



>        3.  There be no discussion of the hall rental fee in this conference 
>    	    (that means you too, Chris).  It will be determined off-line 
<    	    if Chris will allow us to help defray the cost and any
>    	    collection will be done at the party and will be voluntary and
>    	    passively inconspicuous.
 


	you just broke your own rule.

   

	kits   

    My note was not a discussion, it was an informational.
    
    				:^) yourself
    
    				- Vick

     wmois::reinke_b		!Bonnie
     asdg::foster		!Lauren
     school::bobbitt		!Jody			!chips & salsa
     aimhi::rauh		!George & daughter	!kidney beans
     gooey::bennison		!Vick & Nancy		!black bean humus
     dtif::rust	        	!Beth
     zfc::deramo		!Dan
     quark::lionel		!Steve & Leslie		!banana bread
     starch::whalen		!Rich
     caboom::jimc		!Jim 
     iamok::mitchell		!Kits
     willee::skowronek   	!Debby & daughter	!party mix 
     salem::kupton		!John			!taco salad
     mlcsse::mahon		!Brenda &  
     frsure::devereaux    	!Michelle & son		!chile
     sa1794::charbonnd   	!Dana
     viking::tatistcheff	!Lee			!soup
     giamem::jlamotte                                   !chile for chickens
     delni::sthilaire           !Lorna
     cslall::henderson          !Jim
     took::bottoms              !John

This is your last chance to get nametag info to me.  If you're not on
the last list Chris published or you want the tag to read something different
from the default (which is: First name in big, dark letters, your first and
last name below it in smaller type, and below that your node::username),
send me mail.  If you're bringing a guest whose name isn't on the list and
you want a tag for them, send me mail.

There will be blank tags available for those who need them.  And, of course,
wearing a tag is not obligatory.

				Steve

    I want to thank Chris for hosting a most enjoyable party.  Nancy and
    I had a great time.  It's fun to be able to associate a face with some 
    of you now.  
    						- Vick

    Yes,  Thank you very much Chris!!  I had a fun time meeting all the
    folks who came to the party & like the others had said, it was nice
    finally putting a face to a name.  Stephanie had a wonderful time
    also!!
    
    Thank you Chris (and Lisa) for your hospitality!!
    
    Debby (& Stephanie) . . . . 
    

It was indeed very enjoyable - thanks, Chris, for volunteering to host the
party.  

To the best of my recollection, here's who was there.  My apologies if I
left anyone out...

	Bonnie Reinke, Jody Bobbitt, Vick Bennison, Nancy Bennison,
	Beth Rust, Dan D'Eramo, Steve Lionel, Leslie Richardson,
	Rich Whalen, Jim Campbell, Debby Skowronek + daughter Stephanie,
	Michelle Deveraux, Joyce Lamotte, Lorna St. Hilaire, John Bottoms,
	Chris Raczka, Lisa Johnson

I recall at least one other person there who hadn't been on the sign-up
list, but I'm afraid I don't remember her name.

				Steve

    I would like to say "Thank You" to everyone who attended
    the mennotes party. Each of you truly made the evening
    enjoyable for me

    Steve & Leslie, John, Joyce, Vick & Nancy, Dan, Jody, Rich,
    Debby & Stephanie, Michelle, Lorna, Theresa, Bonnie, Jim and
    Miss Congeniality ... Beth (-;

    It was my pleasure meeting all of you
    I hope that we can do it again

    chris

    My sincere compliments to you all for "staying the course",
    particularly you Chris. I'm glad you all had a good time.
    
    				herb

    And how did Stephanie spin round and round like that forever and never
    get dizzy????   :^)  :^)
    
    					- Vick

Re: .159

I cheated - I still had the list from which I made the nametags.  All I had
to do then was remove names of people who didn't show up.

				Steve

    My thanks to Chris also, for hosting the party. It was too bad
    more people didn't make it... there were an awful lot of women
    for a 'mennotes' party :-).
    
    I enjoyed visiting with everyone.
    
    Bonnie

Re: .167

It had not escaped my attention that the signup list had, at one point,
12 women and 8 men listed.  I've been pleased by the high level of 
participation by women in this conference, but can't explain the lack of men
interested in the party.  Oh well, their loss!

				Steve

    Sorry I didn't make it, something came up. Glad everyone enjoyed.

 I was also a no-show.  A ticket for a sold out show I'd wanted to see popped
up and I was gone.



Sounds like fun, though




Jim

    I too opoligise for my 'no show'. I had some critical work to do on
    my apartment(s). I have two vacancies at the moment. And gotta paint
    and clean to get things on the move agian. This is part of the heart
    burn in being a good landlord and a single dad. 
    
    George

I enjoyed the party too.  While I thought the crowd was a bit small, the mixture
seemed about right.

Rich

I enjoyed being there.  Thanks Chris.

Dan

  	I was a no show too.  Sorry !  Something came up .




	kits

    
    	i'm sorry too!
    	but that party won't be the last end all will it???
    
    	giss' a chance, eh???
    
    	d

Re: .176

On what do you base that, Mike?  This was the first such party since the
conference started in 1986!  But I do imagine there will be more.

			Steve

    I wonder if perhaps he had =wn=/mennotes (or maybe even also
    humannotes) in mind and has the frame of reference that =wn=/humannotes
    have parties on that sort of frequency? (c.f. 767.4 as a possible
    connector)

    				herb

Actually, since Mike wasn't at the party, he doesn't even know first hand
that it happened, and that we're not all playing an enormous joke on him!


By the way, anyone can volunteer to host a party.  I'm not sure why it took
five and a half years for someone here to do it. 

				Steve

    
    	great attention to detail, mebbe???

    Maybe Mike will volunteer to host the next one! :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    What's that?  Party at Mike's place?  Great!  What time?

    re:.177
    Yeah, I lumped HR and MenNotes together.
    
    re:.181
    Not a bad idea... I've got the space and the place and the parking
    and the backyard, but I'm not exactly centrally located.

    re .183, hey, Mike, how many times have you driven *North* for a Noters
    function?  About time some of them headed *South* for a change, and
    discovered there's more to N.E. than southern New Hampshire! (thank
    god)  :-)
    
    Lorna 
    

Re: .184

Darn right there is!  Maine!

Mike, you live in East Connecticut, don't you? :-)

			Steve

.185>Mike, you live in East Connecticut, don't you? :-)
    
    Yup, but some of us call it Rhode Island.

  	Gee Mikey !  That's great !   It's gonna be 
	a sleep_over too !   :-}


	kits

    
    	in that case i'll be there....
    
    	do you still have that rat's tail i can fondle???

    
    	am X-cited beyond reason.