Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    Having used it too soon, when infatuated rather than 'in love',
    and having felt like an utter fool when the relationship turned
    to sh*t, I am very reluctant to use the 'L' word unless I'm
    very sure it's applicable.
    

Our society has generally taught men to hide their emotions, lest they
be perceived as "weak".  Most who do this don't understand that it is itself
a weakness not to be able to express emotion freely.  It took me some time to
overcome this.

Today, I have no problems expressing my love for those who are dear to me.
I also understand that there are many kinds of love, and romantic love is
just one of them.

				Steve

    I've always heard that it's the "C" word that men are reluctant
    to hear/discuss/use more than the "L" word...
    

    In one relationship, it took me 3 days to say "I love you" and it took
    him 15 months (after that maybe twice a year).  So yes, I'd say 
    men are reluctant to use it.  I think men are more commitment-shy in
    general.  I'm not sure whether they're afraid of being "trapped" in a
    relationship that goes sour, or "losing their freedom", or having the
    woman turn from "Ms. Right" into "The Inevitable Ball And Chain" (as I
    once heard it put).
    
    Many women like to hear the men who seem to love them tell them that. 
    When queried why I did not hear it more often, he'd say, "Why do I have
    to keep telling you?"....It reminded me of the mythical marriage I'd
    heard of where the woman turns to the man and says, "Honey, why don't
    you ever say you love me anymore?" and the man answers, "I married you,
    didn't I?" -
    
    To me not hearing "I love you" in a relationship is like having someone
    in your life not smile (except maybe every 6 months).  You ask them,
    "Aren't you happy?".  They say, "Of course I'm happy, why do you have
    to keep asking - I smiled six months ago, what more do you want?"....
    
    As to why some men don't feel like indicating their caring more often
    (too soft and squishy for some men to feel comfortable doing maybe?)
    
    I don't know - 
    
    Anyone have any clues?
    
    -Jody
    

RE:< Note 460.4 by CSG001::MEDEIROS "Value MY Difference" >


   > I've always heard that it's the "C" word that men are reluctant
    
   "C" word?


Jim    

    "C" stands for Committment...a word that both men and women fear.

    .15 there is truth to what you say in .15.  That is, especially early
    in our relationship I was afraid of the freedom loss and the ball and
    chain effect.  To an extent it was true, I did loose some freedom and
    am tied down more.  But its like most things in life.  One can hardly
    expect to have a worthwhile relationship with someone and not have SOME
    negative effects.  However, the pluses far outweight the minuses. I
    do find that there is a communications gap similiar to what you
    mention. "Why don't you say you love me more often".  Its some shyness
    and somehow it makes me feel somewhat vulnerable to say it alot.  But
    I do say it... just not as often as she would like. I do wish my wife
    and I shared more common interests.  The interests which originally
    drew us together in addition to love have waned some... that is the
    interests have and not enough new ones have replaced the lost ones.
    We have been married 12 years.  Jeff

I've never had a problem saying to my girlfriend "I love you".  If I feel like 
saying it, I do, sometimes often!!  She likes to hear it and I like to make her
happy.  I made real certain of my feelings before I told her how I felt about
her first.  

In the past I've been in relationships that are exactly like an earlier note
described.  I.e. I told you I loved you nn days ago.  As a result, a 
communications gap formed that could not be repaired. 

It all depends on the individual.  Some people like to hear these words alot
while others feel you have a sign of insecurity with the relationship if 
you keep asking, "Do you Love me??"

I think it goes both ways, men are sometimes reluctant to say it or express
their feelings and I've known some women to be the same way.

Bryan

    re: 2  Hit the nail right on the head, Steve.
    
    I think another reason men are reluctant to say "I love you" is that
    they will be expected to commit at the point they say it, so they
    avoid saying it instead. Or. they believe they will be expected to
    commit.
    
    -roger
    

      I would have to go with the usual, and blame the cultural influences
    of society. With some exceptions: it appears to me to be related to the 
    defense posture to not show the "vulnerability" of dependence. Men have
    trouble taking off their armour after a day of battle. I'm convinced
    that men seek out women for just that purpose: a place to go to hide
    from the constant competition of life. A place to be vulnerable. A
    place to be dependent. A place to be Loved. This is because men need that
    as much as women, but the role assignments of the last industrial
    revolution alienated men from the home, and put them into an
    adversarial competitive environment, instead of the indirect
    competition of the agrarian-based society. The insecurity of such a
    "homeless" environment causes a defense posture that does not reward
    the expression of sentiments such as dependence. The attempt to fill this
    void is has met with a lack of success because men are reacting to
    their competitive environment with a set of skills that is
    insufficient. The ability to work from home should correct some of that
    as well as the reintroduction of men into the home and child-rearing
    process. Men can only return to the home as women return to the
    business environment and that's just one place where the Feminist movement
    will help men. I am convinced, when the time comes we will see an
    almost identical reaction in women. I don't think either gender can do
    without the foundation of security the home gives. Men can no more be 
    the perfect "total man" than women can be the perfect "total woman".
        The reduction in world-wide political tension should help, too. The
    post-war, cold-war, nuclear-war, Korean-war, Viet Nam-war environment
    required a constant state of mental readiness on the part of men. I
    think men have felt alone in the responsibility to stop the "nazi's",
    "commies", "fascists", "capitalist-pigs", and "exploiters of the masses" 
    that have been a real or imagined threat in their world. As things
    soften politically, men will be able too, as well. 
       
    
        It takes a lot of strength to show weakness. It shouldn't take a
    lot of strength to say "I Love You", but the political and industrial
    violence that men have lived with has buried that ability below the
    surface. It's crucial to world society to remedy that situation.
    
                                                                  M...
                                                                      

    
    In my experience both men and woman are reluctant to say, "I love you"
    until they are sure.  I know I don't use the word lightly (in regard to
    people).  If I love someone I tell them, I would also like them to tell
    me the same if they feel it.  I would avoid at all costs asking someone
    if they loved me as I think it is a very personal thing and I don't
    want someone to say it to me just because they think it is something I
    want to here.  I want it to be true first.  The first time is always
    the hardest, it gets a little easier but it is something I reserve for
    special moments like just before going to sleep at night.
    
    I think it also has a lot to do with how often you heard it said in a
    family situation when growing up.  I didn't hear it that often which
    made it very hard for me to say it the first time.  I was leaving
    myself wide open by expressing my innermost feeling with the
    possibility it may not be returned.  (I'm talking about a romantic
    relationship).  It can also make your partner very uncomfortable if
    they don't feel the same way.  In any relationship I think you have to
    consider the effect your words may have on the other person.
    
    		Holly                                           

    
    Re: .0
    
    Sometimes it works the other way. I use the "L" word frequently, I'd
    just like to HEAR it once in awhile.
    
    wes
    

    In 23 years of marriage, I rarely said the word "love"
    and I felt bad about it -- I was supposed to love my wife,
    wasn't I?  
    
    After I got divorced (five years ago), I began my life over 
    again, and I learned to love myself -- something that
    I had never done before.  I realized that my parents way of
    loving was to "provide" for me, and to guide and judge me,
    but not to show any kind of affection, including to say the
    "L" word.  So, I could not say "I love you", because I could
    not say "I am lovable."
    
    I have no difficulty saying, "I love you" now.  And I enjoy
    hearing it as well.
    
    Bill
    

    I think life is too short to keep things inside...especially telling
    someone that you love them.   I say it often...if I feel it.
    
    But how about the slimeball who says I love you, just to manipulate? 
    I've known someone like that....why must people do that?
    
    -Dotti.

	I say "I love you" very often when I'm in a relationship.  e.g.,
	at parting, ending a phone call, just before falling asleep, etc.

	I also have felt a lot of resistance to saying it when I am asked
	"Tell me you love me" (which my ex-wife did).  In this case it
	isn't an expression of the affection, respect, and love that I 
	felt - it was a "duty".  

	I guess I feel that love can only be freely given - not required.

    
    A long time ago, I read something about a person who regretted
    never having told his dad that he loved him, before his dad
    had passed away.
    
    That hit me hard and ever since I've made it a point to express my
    love to those people who are dear to me, while they're still here
    to hear it.
    
    Re: .15 
    
    Hi Dotti, I don't know either, about those slimeballs you mention.
    Hopefully, there aren't too many around.
    
    							Hank

    See, now I'm at the other end of the scope.  Eric often tells me
    that he loves me, and so does my dad (and hell, my mom does too),
    but *I* don't feel comfortable spitting out the word except rarely.
    Even if I DO feel it.  
    
    It sounds so binding, and cynic that I am, I'd feel stupid saying
    it and then having things not work out.  What do I do to compensate?
    Material stuff, affectionate stuff.  Maybe I'm just not a girle-girl.
     :)
    
    ---kim

                    "Be careful when you say 'I love you'
                    "It's a sin, to tell a lie.
                    "Millions of hearts have been broken,
                    "Because those words, were spoken."
                
                                       -- Fats Waller
    
    I'm careful using the words because they carry great implications,
    and because I don't want to "devalue the currency" by spending it too
    freely.
    
    - Hoyt

    I have no problem saying "I Love You" frequently and often to my wife.
    With my previous marriage it was almost impossible. Why? Due to the
    fact that 1) there was no feeling for my ex-wife, and 2) the phrase
    "Tell me you love me". That becomes an obligation and duty.
    
    With Pat I feel greatly about/for her and very willingly say that I
    Love her.
    
    		Dave L.

    
    My husband and I have no problems telling each other that we love each
    other.  However, I think the first time is always difficult.  I
    remember that after the first date with my husband, I knew that I loved
    him and that we would get married.  However, I waited a couple of
    months, I think, before he was ready to say those words.  Strangely
    enough, after our first date, he asked me for a commitment not to date
    other men.  (so for him, Love and Committment weren't always tied
    together)
    
    Rachael
    

    and then there was the situation where i said "I love you",
    only to be told that i didn't.
    
    that will make me think twice before saying it again.
    

    ..and I remember saying "I love you" desperately trying to convince
    myself I still did, trying to ignore the fact that I didn't love
    anymore.
    The feeling is too precious to keep it locked inside your heart, when I
    feel love, I feel the urge to speak it out, to let the other know, to
    sing a love song in the middle of the street with the other people
    looking at me in bewilderment...
    The point is that I don't care if I make a fool of myself if the other
    person gives me short change in the end, I want the other person to
    know that I'm vulnerable and willing to experience pain if it comes to
    it.
    But I don't forget that "love" is probably the most overused word in
    the world, when I say it, it's not to make someone happy, it must be
    true. Liek Teddy Pendergrass said in a gorgeous love song "some people
    think that liking is loving...now tell me that you *love* me..."
    ...Paul

    
    
    Mmmmmm....Maybe some people say it too often & some don't say it
    enough!  What does it mean anyway? The saying "actions speak louder
    than words" spring to mind here. 
    
    Liz
    
    

    When you love someone ,you shouldn't need to say it they can
    tell...though it is nice to hear it I must say !
    
    
    Tracie....who hasn't heard those words for sometime...but boy when
    they're heard there so special !

        The dreaded "L" word ... when 'next unseen' brought me
        here and I saw that title, I assumed the topic was about
        layoffs.
        
        Dan

    re .26 Too much time in HUMAN::DIGITAL ?

|    Tracie....who hasn't heard those words for sometime...but boy when
|    they're heard there so special !

        Tracie. . .I still love you ! :^)
        
        Matt

    Being unfatefull to Tj, Kermit?
    Tsk,tsk.
    ;-)
    Charles

	Charles, Kermit and Dan.....I love you.   :-)


	kits

    <blush><thud>
    Can someone scrape me off the floor please?
    
    Charles

    .28
    
    
    
    <<<< mega blush >>>> and loving evry second of it !