Conference quark::mennotes-v1

 Andy- I agree. Naturalamb are the best I've tried (but rather expensive!)
almost $2 each

 I also don't like wearin' them. It can be SOOOO inconvenient. I have a 
delightful 7 month old daughter due in large part for not having one at an
important time. :-)

 It's no fun, but I don't want snip snip, so...

 The Doctah

    
    Andy, what is the cap you refer to?
    
    As expressed, I too despise em but I haven't tried the Naturalamb
    yet. I've never felt out of control or anything but they sure
    as hell reduce the sensation (so to speak).  
    
    							Hank

    withdraw mcgraw..of course you must have rhythm.  background music
    can help.  The only reason I can think of to use a rubber is if
    your on the 1-5 date.

    Note 324 contains excerpts of Consumer Reports' survey and testing of
    condoms.  The information there may be useful in selecting a different
    brand.
    
    The brand I've been using, since CR rated them tops in their 1979
    survey, is Trojans Plus.  I like them better than some of the other
    styles I've tried.
    
    Re: IUD
    
    It's extremely difficult to get fitted for an IUD in the US nowadays,
    mainly due to the many lawsuits against the makers of some of them.
    In fact, I'm not sure that there are any models still available here.
    Also, they don't always work - some women have no problems with them,
    others can't use them.
    
    Re: diaphragm
    
    This is a nuisance too, especially when used the way it's supposed to.
    They're often pesky to insert and the gel has to be added within an
    hour before intercourse.  (Seeing as I've acquired this data
    second-hand, someone else may care to clarify or correct it.)  And
    some women have difficulty getting one that fits right or stays in
    place.
    
    Another method is the "sponge", sold in the US under the "Today"
    brand.  This is more convenient than the diaphragm and is about as
    effective.  It can be bought in stores and doesn't need a doctor
    to fit.  The disadvantages are that some women have difficulty
    removing it, the possibility of Toxic Shock Syndrome, and the expense.
    
    Condoms are relatively inexpensive, reliable when used properly, and
    of course are the only contraceptive method that protects against
    disease (latex condoms only).  The lessening of sensitivity can
    actually be an advantage in some situations.  I think it's important
    that men accept responsibility for contraception, and they should be
    willing to use condoms if thir partner does not use an acceptable form
    of contraception.
    
    				Steve

    I recently heard a comedian talking about wearing condoms ... and
    he said he wore 2 all the time !  So when he got amorous, he merely
    took one off ... just a thought ...    ;^}
    
    
    
    				Scary

    Re: .7
    
    There's a name for men who follow your advice - fathers!
    
    				Steve

    
    	The biggest problem using condoms is getting over the pyscological
    idea that there is something "between" you and your SO. Not being able
    to achieve orgasm or ejaculation may be more in your head (90% of sex
    is there) than under the rubber. Are you wearing it correctly?? 
    
    	Talk to your partner and discuss other alternatives for you to
    attain sexual fulfillment. (ie: oral, anal, mutual masturbation etc)
    Is she enjoying you with the condom? 
    
    	I recommend that you buy a selection of types and use the one that
    you BOTH can enjoy after trying 4 or 5.
    
    Good Luck..
    
    Ken 

    I'd recommend talking to your partner about what you are feeling. It
    can be mildly frustrating (oops - timeout - there!) but from a
    sensitivity point of view there shouldn't be THAT  much difference.
    I'm guessing there is a psychological block. The best way of dealing
    with that is to talk about it and figure out what to do about it.....
    with your partner. 
    
    Try it, you'll like it.
    
    Dj

    Received this in the mail recently...  
    
    Reply 375.7 reminded me of it...
    
>	Subj:	Only in Italy
>
>    I was at the supermarket the other day, and noticed a bunch of  condoms
>    for sale near the registers.  One of the brands came in two sizes: the
>    larger one (12 condoms instead of 3) was called the "family" size....
 

I'm kind of surprised at all the negative stuff people have to say 
about condoms.  I've grown to really like them.

One bit of advice that I have is to put a little bit of lubricant on 
your "tip" before you put on the condom (don't lubricate your shaft; 
that causes the condom to slip off).  That increases your sensitivity 
during sex.

Another thing that really works is readjusting you and your 
partner's "attitude" when putting the condom on.  What I mean by this 
is that I used to think of putting the condom on like this...

	Sex, sex, sex, sex, sex...
	Oh, okay, umm, stop, okay?
	Where is that thing?
        Okay, where is the lube?  Okay, here it is.
	Wait a minute, I gotta get the foil off.
        (Hopefully there is still something there to put the condom on)
        Okay, I'm ready now
	(Attempt to "get back in the mood")
	Sex, sex, sex, sex...

The advice that a lot of sex-perts give is to make the condom part of 
your sex play so that it doesn't interrupt the flow of the love 
making.  What I do is I use playful talk about, "Gee, do you think I 
should put a condom on?" and my partner might playfully ask me "Why?"
Then I might let him put the condom on me or something like that.  

The point is to keep both partners engaged in the act of using the 
condom and to keep it sexy and playful (talking sexy is easiest; 
letting the partner "assist" in the operation is also a good way of 
keeping it "hot").

Just some ideas.  Feel free to take it or leave it.


						--Ger

   .0> " out of control "

            For three months, between the time my (soon to be ex) wife
       got off of "the pill" and the conception of my son, we used
       condoms.  I eventually "got used to them" but never "enjoyed"
       using them.  I heard a comedian describe it as "taking a shower
       with your rain coat on", and I agree.

            I can relate to the "out of control" phrase.  In my opinion,
       it could be explained like this.

            If you assume that having intercourse in the missionary
       position is full body contact, then the most sensitive part of
       that contact could be considered to take place at the
       penis/vagina connection.  If you also allow that you and your
       partner regulate the progression of the love making in part,
       through this warm all over feeling, then it works like a
       thermometer or "means of control". 

            Now if you take that warm all over feeling and insulate
       yourself from the most intense part of it, you are "out of
       control".  And I think you stay that way until you start using
       some other primary means to "feel" what's happening.

            Imagine learning to drive on a car without power steering
       and then your first experience in a car that has it.  For the
       first few miles, you can't "feel the road".  However, after a
       while you get use to it, and everything is OK.

            The key here is practice.  Keep "doing it" and keep talking
       to each other about it.

            Just my $0.02
            Richard

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Entered anonymously for the author:                     (--GerAsModerator)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm the author of the basenote.  Thank you all for the replies so far.

         Let me say that my wife and I have considered the alternatives to
    condoms, and for various reasons that they are not acceptable.

    .1  When I said I felt out of control, I meant that I have difficulty
        determining how far I may withdraw without leaving completely.  I
        can't feel where I am like I used to.

    .14 Thanks for the tip lubricating tip.

        I suppose it could be a psychological problem, but having just
    switched to this method of birth control, I know that there is a
    definite loss in sensitivity when I'm covered.

        I think that we are handling the use of the condom well.  We seem
    to remain interested, and possibly get more interested when I put the
    condom on because we know what's going to happen.  My wife seems to be
    enjoying herself as much as she used to without condoms.  We have
    talked about my feelings and that's one of the reasons I'm asking about
    condoms in here.

        It's good to hear that Ger (in .14) is beginning to enjoy using
    condoms.  I'd like to feel that way about using them too.

        Thanks for your replies.

    re: .16
    
    Use of other methods:
    
    For many people, there is no real "ideal" method. At first, I too
    resented the use of condoms, since (at that time) I felt it was
    my wifes responsibility "not to get pregant"). However, she wanted
    to get pregnant, so all methods tended to "fail". ;^) (in retrospect).
    
    Through the milennia, I've managed to meet "at least" one person
    who got pregnant using only ONE of the methods mentioned. TO be
    sure no "unwanted" prgancy occurs, one might use several methods
    (Cap, IUD, and spermicide inside the Cap or Condom.
    
    I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet (the 'odds' associated
    with each method. However, DR. Ruth also supports this view of multiple
    methods to "raise the certainty level of success in failing to
    impregnate"). 
    
    For personal reasons, condoms were very inconvenient for me to use,
    however, in a recent article, it is estimated that it will cost about
    $1,000,000 to raise a child to maturity and put it throug college (not
    te mention all the other little joys that goes with it). Given this
    alternative to effective birth control ... some of us are willin g to
    put up with a LOT of "inconvenience". ;^) 

    Bob    
    
    
    
    

 re: sensitivity

 I suggest shelling out for a more expensive, natural lambskin condom (like the
Naturalamb). They allow far more sensitivity, and are extremely unlikely
to break. The first time I used one, my wife said "I thought you put it on."
The heat transfer through the natural membrane is much better than through most
of the latex ones I've tried (plenty at this point).

 The Doctah

    The natural lambskin condoms may be better on the sensitivity scale,
    but they are actually more prone to breakage/leakage than
    latex ones, especially when combined with certain non-water
    soluble lubricants.  If you're concerned as much about
    prevention of pregnancy and/or disease as about sexual pleasure, 
    use the latex brands of condoms.
    
    Richard

    
>    It's a question of degree. Naturalamb is pretty dam' safe.

I think that one point that is trying to be made is that, for some 
people in some circumstances, Naturalamb is a no-no.  For instance, as 
a nonmonogomous gay man (where is that partner when I need him???), 
Naturalamb is out.  HIV can be transmitted through that type of 
condom.

In one "safer-sex" presentation I went to, the facilitator suggested
that folks use two condoms; he said that the second condom didn't
additionally reduce sensitivity that much.  I personally haven't tried
that, and I'm not sure that I will.  I think I'd rather spend a few
seconds to put the darn thing on right the first time (most "failure" 
is due to improper use). 

For a married couple, HIV transmission probably isn't an issue (though
be careful with the type of lube you use), and Naturalamb might be
a good condom. 


							--Ger

    
    Some condoms are coated with a spermicide like nonoxydol-9,
    which increases their effectiveness in birth control.

    
    re lube
    
    Especially don't ever use salted butter... she'll hate you for it!

    	For the sake of humor.....
    
          See the movie "SKINDEEP". John Ritter and another man (Rock
    Singer) are after the same woman. She insists that her lover wear
    protection. The place is pitch black and a luminescint blue appendage
    strolls to the bed from the right. The rocker comes in, Ritter hides in
    the closet, the Rocker gets angry and leaves. Ritter comes back out
    (pitch blck again) with the lighted blue condom on, the rocker comes
    back in with a lighted red one. It's probably one of the funnier "Safe
    Sex" messages I've seen. 
    
    BTW: They get into a scuffle and both are arrested for: <Hit next
    unseen>
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    'Cockfighting'
    
    
    
    Ken

    re. .26
    
    I was waiting for the woman to say,
    
    "That's nice.  But I wanted a Bud Lite!"
    

    Re: .26
    
    The scene you describe in SKINDEEP was the funniest I've seen and still
    laugh when I think of it.  It was really nice to see that Hollywood is
    finally addressing safe sex.  Humor can be a good teacher.  (Do they
    really make them in fluorescent colors?)
    
    P.
    

    It was also addressed in "Naked Gun" .... when the couple said that
    they both practiced safe sex, then the next scene showed 2 people
    huigging while wearing head to toe condoms ... guess that would
    be about as safe as you could get !
    
    
    
    					Jerry

    And camoflaged also!
    
    Steve

    
    	I heard on the radio this morning that the nation's leading
    	condom manufacturer will begin marketing a 20% larger condom.
    	This is to make their product more appealing and boost sales.
    	I wonder if this is just a marketing ploy to directed at men's
    	ego's, or if there really is such a need in the market.  
    	Shouldn't there also be a need for a smaller size as well? What man
    	would go to the pharmacy and pick up the package that had 
    	NEW!!! 20% SMALLER!!! plastered all over the box.  I wonder
    	if the larger size will cost more than the regular size, to....uh.....
    	keep up with inflation.
    
    
    	George
    

I'd actually worry about that.  It's important that the condom fit
right to seal properly.  I have never read that a size larger than the one
normally sold in the US was needed, though I have read that smaller sizes
are sold in some countries.

			Steve

    Those "Magnum" condoms are already around. Don't know what the heck I'd
    need one for. :-)* 100000
    
    The Doctah

    Easy, let your date find the *empty* box, then say "Well,
    they fit OK, but weren't sensitive enough, so I switched
    to brand xyz "   >>:-)
    

Reminds me of a joke that goes something like this...

An American manufacturer of condoms contacted the State Department in
a tizzy.  Seems the Soviets had ordered several hundred thousand condoms
to be issued to the Red Army soldiers.  It wasn't the size of the order
that had them worried, but the specifications, which called for each
condom to be of enormous size - nearly double the usual American size.

The State Department official thought for a moment, and then responded
"Sure, go ahead and make them for the Russkies.  But on each one,
print 'Texas Medium'."

				Steve

	 At a local bar in Colorado Springs, there are condom machines
	 in both bathrooms...the men's bathroom's machine says "Extra
	 Large" on it, and the machine in the women's bathroom says
	 "Extra Small."

	 All the women get a real kick outta it!  (If you could only
	 hear the discussions....)

	 kat

    
    Ok kath, how do you know what's in the men's bathroom?
    Inquiring minds wanna know. :-)
    
    								Hank

The following reply is from a member of our community who wishes to remain
anonymous.


 Monday morning, I decided to start the week off on a good note. I had
previously bought a package of the new (and improved?) Trojan-enz. After
intercourse, I noticed a sharp pain at the opening of my urethra. The
pain lasted for several hours, and was rather disconcerting, to say the
least. Now my little friend is rather wary of donning another "pain-maker."
I can't say I blame him!

 Have any of you had any problems of this nature with the new Trojan-enz?
I am wondering if the pain was unrelated to the use of the different condom,
but I'd prefer not to make the same mistake twice.

 Thanks for taking this seriously.

    The only times when I've noticed some soreness afterwards is when I
    didn't urinate shortly afterwards.  My suspicion is that some of those
    chemicals get near the sensitive mucous membranes, and irritate them. 
    Urinating helps flush them out, so that they don't cause the
    irritation.

    Rich

    You may want to try the Trojans Plus, which use a "dry" lubricant,
    though I've never experienced discomfort from any style or brand
    that I've tried.  I have not really liked the ones with a gel
    lubricant.
    
    				Steve

	I was really tickled by the last item referring to pain. It's not that
I am sadistic, but the way that Steve began to speak for the "little friend".
I am imagining my little guy sitting here right now in the dark, feeling safe
and protected, comfortable. Wondering when the time is right for feeling proud
and ready for action. Then also, it won't really be that guy that will be running
the show, although he gets to call for a time out, and even signals when to
charge ! Sometimes he's just so tired of doing nothing, that he seems to be
wanting to remind me that he's still in working order.

	On the serious side, I think you might have to wait and see whether any
other situations bring about pain. Unfortunately, there are infections that can
cause it. Ouch.

	I recall feeling sore after running into a Copper-T coil that was not
inserted quite deep enough. It happened a few times. I think there was a string
that could be pushed up and out of the way, but would come down between visits.
I don't know if anyone uses those anymore.

	Hope you can figure it out quickly.

>I have not really liked the ones with a gel
>    lubricant.

 This always brings about the dilemma- where do I wipe my hands? I have taken to
bringing a small towel bedside.

The Doctah

Re: .44

> I was really tickled by the last item referring to pain. It's not that
> I am sadistic, but the way that Steve began to speak for the "little friend".

Just a reminder - I didn't write that note - I only posted it on behalf
of an anonymous author.  I suppose I should make myself a MENNOTES_MODERATOR
username....

				Steve

    
    so glad I don't have to worry about this nonsense...

RE Pain

Did you pinch the tip of the condom as you were putting it on? Even 
with tipped condoms, you might want to pinch the tip when putting one 
on; that allows some extra space (but don't put air in there!) between 
the tip and the Eurethra (sp?).  Maybe that would reduce the contact 
between the condom and the opening.

...but maybe you already did this.



						--Ger

RE .48 Disclaimer

I guess a better phrase than "pinch" would be "gently press with the 
fleshy parts of your finger."  If you pinch with your nails, you might 
puncture the condom; don't do that.

I was just trying to suggest leaving some extra room at the end of the 
condom, that's all.  The "gently pressing" part makes sure that an air 
bubble doesn't get into the tip; air bubbles can break during sex.



							--Ger

    re .44
    
    the string from a copper t (iud) and copper 7 is actually a nylon
    monofilament, with the same texture as the part of the fishing line you
    tie a hook to.  it is supposed to soften slightly and wrap around the
    cervix after awhile, but mine never seem to.
    
    the string can be trimmed if necessary, but if you're running into the
    string, you are probably banging her cervix which is not the most
    pleasant sensation for many women (like me!).

>it is supposed to soften slightly and wrap around the
>    cervix after awhile, but mine never seem to.

 I suspect there is a critical length which the string must be cut to. If too
long or too short, it just doesn't ever get out of the way. And the one my wife
had did NOT feel like monofilament. (Oh, it probably was, but sure didn't 
feel like it).

>    the string can be trimmed if necessary, but if you're running into the
>    string, you are probably banging her cervix which is not the most
>    pleasant sensation for many women (like me!).

 This is intuitive (if you think about it for a minute), but thanks for saying
that. I found out the hard way about the string from a IUD. Ouch!

 The Doctah

    re .51
    
    if it's not a monofilament, it's EXTREMELY dangerous - but they haven't
    sold them with anything but monofilaments since the dacron shield.

 Well, it's been out for a long time now. And my wife has given birth to a baby
since then, so I guess the danger period is probably passed. (It seems to me it 
was a copper wire, and it had been in there for awhile). Can't remember. Thanks
for the info, though.

 The Doctah

 FYI-

 The lubricant used in pre-lubricated condoms is very bad on furniture finish.
Be very careful not to allow any of the lubricant to drip, say, on a nightstand,
or you will have a corresponding area with no finish whatsoever. Perhaps
they should bottle this stuff to use as furniture stripper- it works better
than anything else I ever used (intentionally, that is).

 The Doctah

    Re: .54
    
    That's interesting - I wonder what is in it that made it do that.
    What brand had this effect?  The lubricant is supposed to be 
    water-based.
    
    One thing I like about the dry lubricants (such as in Trojans Plus)
    is that they aren't messy.
    
    			Steve

    Maybe it wasn't the lubricant.  Excessive heat can strip varnish
    as well.
    
    Kris

 It was the lubricant from the Trojan Naturalamb condoms. Good thing it wasn't 
expensive furniture. :-)

    re: .57 (Doc)
    
    	   It may not have been the lubricant that ate away your
    	furniture's finish.  It might have been the spermacide.
    
    	   Be that as it may, one has to wonder why you would leave
    	an exposed condom on your nightstand in the first place. 
    	I think that speaks badly of your housekeeping habits. ;^)
    
    	- Greg

 It wasn't the condom itself, it was the package which was hastily left on
the nightstand. :-) I had reason to devote my attention elsewhere at the time.
;^)

 Doc

	As a humourous footnote, as I was reading notes tonight, the note
	that was "next/unseen" following this was 365, titled:

	"I got it on, now how do I get it off"


					-sjk

I can remember tring a rubber in high school. If any of you seen Hollywood
Nights you know what I mean. The scene with the guy and his girl in the van.
Promissed myself never again.

I spent 4 years in the  service and still would'nt use one. Thank god most of 
the things you could come down with where cureable with a shot. Now days I 
would be scared to death with whats out there.