Conference quark::mennotes-v1

>    Any thoughts on this? 

    Yeah. I don't think it's true. I think it's usually shown that way
    because movies / TV / David Mamet are more comfortable with showing
    women suffering. (But listen to the Everly Brothers' hits for an
    alternate viewpoint.)
    
    From everything I've experienced, read, and seen, which partner has the
    easiest time immediately after the breakup depends entirely on which
    gets into a new relationship sooner. 
    
    Ray

    Please note I'm using a lot of "many" and "might" words below, this
    doesn't apply to all men or all women.
    
    I haven't seen "about last night", but when a relationship ends
    (typically one of three months to three years, in my case) there is a
    period of mourning, of watching the dreams die, of extricating the
    heart-hooks from the other person's closeness and life.  
    
    I think many women may mourn more strongly because they may invest
    emotionally more strongly (by which I mean they get more emotional
    sustenance from the relationship, and may rely more heavily on that
    emotional sustenance than many men might).  Also, I think many women
    actually *integrate* themselves into the man's life (i.e., change for
    the man, begin to think of themselves as a permanent fixture in the
    man's life, and begin to think of not "me and you" but "us").
    
    Thus when the parting takes place, it may *HURT* more (not that men
    don't get hurt, and don't cry, and don't feel pain - I've seen it
    happen, just that they may not DEFINE themselves in terms of "I am half
    a relationship", and thus the loss may not rock them so strongly).
    
    -Jody

    Re: jody
    
    > I think many women may mourn more strongly because they may invest
    > emotionally more strongly (by which I mean they get more emotional
    > sustenance from the relationship, and may rely more heavily on that
    > emotional sustenance than many men might).  Also, I think many women
    > actually *integrate* themselves into the man's life (i.e., change for
    > the man, begin to think of themselves as a permanent fixture in the
    > man's life, and begin to think of not "me and you" but "us").
    
    True... *whichver* partner in the relationship does this to the greater
    extent is going to hurt more when it ends.  Back in my younger years,
    when I considered myself fundamentally unlovable, *I* used to do all of
    these things (especially deriving sustenance from the relationship and
    changing myself so as to fit my partner better).  As a result, the
    breakups were always devastating for me.  No, I didn't cry (that's a
    whole topic in itself), but I did *everything* else -- walked around in
    a daze, contemplated suicide, went off my feed, became generally
    angstful...
    
    In short, it's not *necessarily* a male-female thing, but in our
    society it's *usually* the female who makes the greater emotional
    investment going in, and who is likely to feel the most emotional loss
    coming out...
    
    --jim
    

    
    
    Well the guy I just left after almost six years seems to have
    no trouble with it.  I left because I found out about his affair
    and he continues to lie to me.  It is very hard for me becuase
    we have lived together for a while.  
    
    The girl I work with also is going through a similar breakup 
    and the guy in question also seems to have no problem with it.
    
    So I think it really depends on the individuals.  It does seem
    that the woman does integrate herself more into the mans life
    than the reverse.  Maybe that is why it is easier for a man
    to get otu of a relationship.  I just find it hard to beleive that
    these two men in question feel the women involved can still remain
    friends with them.  Can any guy answer that?
    
    Michele

    "We'll still be friends." means "I still care about you and don't want
    you to feel hurt more than is necessary for me to pull out of the 
    exclusive/romantic/committed part of our relationship."  He may not
    really believe it's possible for you or for him to remain friends, but 
    it's a blow-softening or perhaps guilt-reducing stance for him to take.
    
    					- Vick
    

    
    I think a lot of it may depend on why the relationship ended.  I have
    a close friend that was involved in a relationship with a woman that
    was going through a very tough time emotionally in her life.  My friend
    spent a great deal of time guideing her and helping her get her life
    back on track.  When she was finally back on an even keel after a few
    months she suddenly became very distant and aloof.  She did express her
    gratitude to him but it was obvious that she wanted nothing more to do
    with him.  He took this very hard.  I was able to help him overcome his
    feelings of rejection and now he's back on keel.  
    
    Men do indeed hurt.  It seems that at times we can all be rather cruel.

    re.1 last paragraph  "depends on who gets into a new relationship
    sooner, gets over quicker".
    
    How so?  I think, at times that it may better, that it's not who
    gets into new relationship sooner, but rather, who does not seek
    to get into a new relationship quicker but smarter.
    
    HOWEVER, it may help getting into a few new relationships upon a
    break up.  It helps forgetting.  But that's probably 'bout it.

    
    I think the situation depends. If there is constant "I don't
    know what I want from life" attitudes in the relationship then
    a break-up is probably a little less painful because after awhile
    that just gets plan old.
    
    If people break-up because they don't know what they want, but they
    feel they do love the other person, then they should take time for
    themselves and sort things out. Dragging someone else in at a time
    when something has just ended is not really fair to that person.
    
    If you really love someone, it's hard to "just get over it" in a
    day or so, but eventually it begins to heal.
    
    I have always found that I have such good things and good friends in my
    life that it makes it a little bit easier, and not get into the mode of
    mourning because life goes on and one should be in it to enjoy it.
    
    Mary
    

    I didn't say that the person who quickly got into a new relationship
    was free from trouble. Far from it; rebound has its own special
    tortures. But that person (man or woman) DOES get over the pain of the
    breakup sooner.
    
    Hey, I even read it in a book; it's gotta be true.
    
    And I think the person who "wants to be friends" tends to be the person
    who initiated the breakup; again, no matter if it's a man or a woman.
    
    Ray

    Honestly, the last thing I would want to hear from my breaker-upper,
    is "but we can still be friends".  And as the breaker, I know that
    deep inside, I just want to rid of the guy.  I don't care if I ever
    hear from him again.  
    
    It's an insult to say, "I want your kindness, your careness, your
    everything as you are, were, but you can keep your sex."
    
    If that happens, fine. However, I think that's something that comes
    about later, by chance.  I'd just rather be broken up with, or break
    up and leave it at that.  For me, I'm not able to handle a friendship
    with a past serious "boyfriend".  Not that I hate them, contrary.
     It just doesn't feel right.
                          

    I have painstakingly managed to sustain friendly relations with ex-SOs,
    but only after a period of time that included distance, and sorting
    things out on both our parts.  It is possible.  And it is one thing
    several ex's have admired about me.  not that it's something everyone
    should try, and not that it's something I've done with every ex.
    
    Hearing "let's be friends" right after a break up is not comforting,
    nor is it caring.  It sounds like the person is assuaging their own
    pain. 
    
    -Jody

    re.0
    Gee, I always thought it was the women that went on like nothing
    happened and I was the one that was bummed out for 3 months.
    
    
    -j
    

    re: -1
    
    Some women are just good actresses!
    
    Diane
    

    re.13
    That must be it! My divorce was 7 years ago and I'm still unattached
    and no prospects in sight but then I'm not lookin' either....
    
    -j

Several years ago, I read a book about "breaking up" called "Uncoupling" (I
think).  I don't remember the name(s) of the author(s), but it had some very
interesting insights about breaking up (or uncoupling).

The book asserted that both partners of a relationship went through a grieving
period;  the person who breaks up the relationship goes through the stages of
grieving, etc. while still "in the relationship", while the person who is 
"left behind" goes through the stages after the other person "leaves the
relationship."

The book dealt with both heterosexual and homosexual relationships, and I
believe that the author(s) stated that research showed that the type of
relationship (heterosexual or homosexual) had no bearing on the "stages" of
grieving, i.e., the feelings are the same in either case.

Interesting reading, anyhow.  I'm not sure about the exact title of the book
or the author(s) since it has been several years since I read it.

-Mary Ann