Conference bookie::movies

Subject: Actor River Phoenix dead at 22
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 93 11:35:11 PST
	
     HOLLYWOOD (UPI) -- Actor River Phoenix, who played a troubled youth in
the acclaimed 1986 movie "Stand By Me" and went on to star in several
other films, collapsed and died early Sunday shortly after leaving a
West Hollywood club. He was 22.
	
     Phoenix, who was at The Viper club with some friends, left at about 
1:00 a.m., said Sheriff's Deputy Bill Martin. "According to his companions
he was acting strange," Martin said. "Subsequently, he collapsed
outside the club."
	
     The young actor was rushed to Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in Los
Angeles, where he was pronounced dead at 1:51 a.m.
	
     Cedars-Sinai spokeswoman Peggy Shaff said further details about
Phoenix's death were not immediately available.
	
     "At this time the cause of death is still under investigation and
the exact cause will have to be determined with a coroner's autopsy,"
Martin said. The autopsy will be scheduled within the next few days, he
added.
	
     Phoenix, called a rising young star by many critics, was featured in
films such as "Stand By Me," "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade," 
"Little Nikita," "My Own Private Idaho" and the 1992 film 
"Sneakers," starring Robert Redford.
	
     Born in Madras, Oregon, on Aug. 23, 1971, Phoenix spent most of his
childood in South America. He traveled extensively to Mexico, Puerto
Rico and Venezuela with parents who were then independent Christian
missionaries with The Children of God. He returned to Florida when he
was 7, before settling in California at the age of 8.
	
     Although Phoenix didn't have much money in his childhood, he said he
was still happy growing up. He often said it would be nice to make
enough money from acting to be able to fund some programs for inner-city
children.
	
     Phoenix began acting at age 10 in a television production of "Seven
Brides for Seven Brothers." His film career started with his debut as a
youngster yearning to travel into space in the 1985 science-fiction
adventure film "Explorers."
	
     He then went on to play in the 1986 hit "Stand by Me," about
boyhood friendship in the 1950s. The film, based on Stephen King's
novella "The Body," also starred Wil Weaton and Corey Feldman, and was
narrated by Richard Dreyfuss. In the film, Phoenix played a youth who
struggles to overcome a bad reputation inherited from his father.
	
     Also in 1986, Phoenix was featured in "Mosquito Coast," where he
played son to an idealist -- Harrison Ford -- who moves his family to
Central America after becoming disillusioned with modern civilization.
Phoenix also starred with Ford in the 1989 film "Indiana Jones and the
Last Crusade." He played a young "Indy."
	
     In 1991, he starred alongside Keanu Reeves in "My Own Private Idaho," 
a film portraying male street-hustling in the American West. Phoenix
played a narcoleptic sex-for-hiree. His last film was 1992's "Sneakers," 
starring Robert Redford.
	
     Phoenix also played guitar and recorded some original songs.

    How terribly sad! I hope they don't determine it was drugs. 
    
    Natalie

>    How terribly sad! I hope they don't determine it was drugs. 

Actually - I hope they do determine it was drugs... what this country needs
is for most of hollywood to die due to drugs... then maybe the rest of
us will realize what a stupid thing it is to do...  

but - it probably wouldn't make a difference... even if he did die due to
drugs, it's not gonna change anyone's drug use (except maybe someone who
was close to him...)

/Scott

    I feel very sad about this.  I liked River Phoenix a lot.  He was so
    young and talented and beautiful, that it's such a waste.  I considered
    him to be one of the most talented young actors around, and I expected
    to have many years of seeing him on the screen ahead of me.
    
    I thought his performance in My Own Private Idaho was worthy of an
    oscar nomination, and even back when he was in Stand By Me I could tell
    he was something special.  
    
    I used to feel guilty about how attractive I thought he was because I'm
    old enough to be his mother.  :-)  
    
    My daughter heard it before me yesterday, and called me on the phone
    and told me and we both started to cry.  I consider it a real loss for
    people who love movies, and appreciate good acting, because I really
    expected him to become one of the most acclaimed actors of his
    generation.  It's such a waste, and I feel so bad for his parents and
    family.
    
    My daughter was saying that he's the first famous person, of her
    generation, that she cared about, who has died (sort of comparing it to
    Hendrix, Morrison & Joplin in my generation), and she was very
    depressed about it.
    
    I have read some interviews with him, in the past, and he came across
    as an intelligent and interesting person, too.
    
    Lorna
    

	Interesting the press release in .1 says he was born
	in 1971 and died at age 22.  CNN HN on Sunday said
	he was born in 1970 and died at age 23.  I wonder which
	is correct?

	Wasn't River also in another movie with K. Reeves
	called something like Rosincratz & .... (based on
	Hamlet's two friends, ala Shakeshphere)?

    re .5, I noticed the conflict in birth dates, too.  I don't know which
    is correct.  
    
    Lorna
    

I'm also saddened by this loss. River Phoenix was one of my favorite actors,
and I really liked every role he played. Along with 'My Own Private Idaho',
I think his best performance was in 'Running On Empty' - a great movie with
fantastic performances from the whole cast, Phoenix in particular.

alan

Re: .5

Rosencrantz and Gildenstern

That's phoenetic spelling - someone may know the correct way - it evolved from
Hamlet. 

  This is sad. I saw "Stand By Me" a few years back and I thought he was
outstanding. That's a really fine film. I was never able to warm up to "My Own
Private Idaho", it seemed to me to be a poor man's David Copperfield, but
his performance was a bright spot in that movie.

  George

    re: .3
    
    How very Christian of you.
    
    Richard

>       <<< Note 363.10 by 11578::MAXFIELD "The secret of my excess..." >>>
>
>    re: .3
>    
>    How very Christian of you.
>    
>    Richard

HUH?!?!?!?!  what's a religion have to due with what I said?

/Scott

    How about wishing most of Hollywood would die due to drugs? Very nice
    indeed...

>       <<< Note 363.12 by 11578::MAXFIELD "The secret of my excess..." >>>
>
>    How about wishing most of Hollywood would die due to drugs? Very nice
>    indeed...

You must be very paranoid of christians!!!  I never "wished" for most
of hollywood to die. I was simply stating that drugs are stupid and 
perhaps the only way people will realize is for a bunch of famous visable
people to die... hench the "most of hollywood die of drugs" remark...

you really should see a doctor...

/Scott

    I'm only fearful of people like you who claim
    it would be a good idea if more people were to die of drug
    use, as a "solution."
    
    

>       <<< Note 363.14 by 11578::MAXFIELD "The secret of my excess..." >>>
>
>    I'm only fearful of people like you who claim
>    it would be a good idea if more people were to die of drug
>    use, as a "solution."
    
sigh.  you really have a hard time reading and comprehending, don't you.
If you looked past my comment about "most of hollywood should die" 
then you would have read the "but it wouldn't work" remark I made...

You should try reading what you comment on, it'll help.

Also - if you couldn't tell that it was said out of a frustration then you
really have no hope...

/Scott

    I comprehend you very well.

    I agree with Richard on this.  Scott, I think your comments are both
    uncharitable and untimely.  It would be nice if you could work on more
    diplomatic ways to word your opinions.  
    
    Taking drugs may indeed be "stupid" but that doesn't diminish the
    tragic loss involved in River Phoenix' death.
    
    Lorna
    

	CNN HN played the 911 call made by River's brother.  His
	brother mentioned "Valium ... or something" on the call.
	CNN HN also said from the description it sounded like
	an over reaction to concaine.

	FWIW, the Viper club is owned by Johnny Depp.

    Since the cause of death is as yet unknown, perhaps the interested
    parties could suspend judgment until it is? There are things other than
    drugs that can cause healthy young people to simply drop dead, as NBA
    fans are well aware after the death of Reggie Lewis; perhaps
    Phoenix suffered a similar fate. 
    
    Even if it does turn out to have been some unwise behavior of his that
    caused his death, well, that's the way the cookie crumbles; one might
    perceive it as making him less admirable as a person, or perhaps more
    tragic, but it shouldn't (IMO) detract from his performances. [If
    someone wants to start a topic on how Hollywood, either through its
    products or through its (apparent) condoning of the behavior of its
    employees, promotes risky behavior, that's fine with me, but please
    don't let's get into a general discussion about the badness of drugs,
    or whatever. There are other conferences for that. Thanks.]
    
    -b

>    I agree with Richard on this.  Scott, I think your comments are both
>    uncharitable and untimely.  It would be nice if you could work on more
>    diplomatic ways to word your opinions.  

Oh gee, sorry Lorna to sound so uncharitable and untimely... but my post
didn't say anything about River himself, it was a simply expression of 
my frustration over what appears to be yet another drug related death...
another life wasted so he could feel "good"...

Also - I'm not gonna try to be "diplomatic" when it comes to people throwing
their life away on drugs... They need to be show, without any diplomacy,
what will happen... River could be a prime example of it (if the cocaine and/or
valum turn out to be true)...

>    Taking drugs may indeed be "stupid" but that doesn't diminish the
>    tragic loss involved in River Phoenix' death.

I wasn't trying to diminish his death... it's sad. I'm only 2 years
older then he was, and it makes you look at life differently. I've been
married little over a year and I have my first child now (3 1/2 weeks old)
and I don't even want to think about what would happen to my family if
I just dropped dead all of a sudden. But, as someone else mentioned, 
5000 people died in the U.S. yesterday, so why should we place River's 
death above the rest??? Perhaps because he could have prevented it by
not taking drugs??? (I know, it's not yet been proven...)

I think you and Richard need to focus on what the problem is rather than 
complaining that I didn't voice it "diplomatically"... I'm not gonna mince
words here...

/Scott

It is quite possible for a 22/23 year old to drop down dead - embolisms in the 
brain have these symptoms.

    I think 363.20 hits it pretty well on the head, there are other
    conferences that the subject of drug deaths can be debated to your
    hearts content..... 
    
    Michael
    

    re .21, Scott, I don't think you and I could even agree on the
    "problem."  In my opinion, intolerance and lack of compassion, such as
    I have seen in various notes of yours is more of a problem for the
    human race than drugs.
    
    You and others have pointed out that several thousand people died in
    the US yesterday, so why is River Phoenix' death more important?  Well,
    look at this way, if your best friend, or a family member or someone
    you loved and cared about died yesterday, I think it would be more
    important to you than the deaths of the several thousand other people
    who died on the same day.  Well, River Phoenix was a famous person that
    I respected and admired, and whose talent had helped to enrich my life,
    so even though I never knew him personally his death meant more to me
    than the deaths of the several thousand other people who also died. 
    Because I admired him and knew who he was, even though I never met him
    personally, I feel badly that he, as a person died, and I can express
    my feelings of loss in this file.  When someone this young, talented
    and beautiful dies, with their whole life ahead of them, it serves to
    remind us all how tragic it is when any life ends in such an untimely
    and meaningless way.
    
    To the other person who said "big deal" - how would you like if people
    say that someday upon hearing of your demise?
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Editorial comments aside, the media here in Southern California
    reported that doctors at Cedars Sinai had released preliminary (to the 
    post mortem) blood work results on River Phoenix. They were able to 
    determine the presence of cocaine and valium. He also reportedly
    suffered from a congenital heart condition. They may all be related.
    
    
    Marilyn

    
    Just a snippet I heard on the news last night, River Phoenix has been a
    vegetarian for over three years he only took homeopathic medication
    he had tried drugs once but didn't like it, Harrison Ford also said
    that he had a very clean life style.
    
    So maybe it's a bit premature for us to be jumping to conclusions.
    (Not to rule anything out - but the autopsy will tell, won't it?)
    
    Jim G.

	Re: .-1

	BTW, CNN HN I believe said murder had not been ruled out.
	Also his friends with him that night had said something
	didn't seem right, that he was acting strangely that night.

	John Belushi all over again?

    re .28, look, I never heard of your mother either, but if she died
    would you like it if I said "Big deal"?
    
    He wasn't a clown.  He was a very talented, intelligent, good looking
    man.  Now, who the heck are you?
    
    Lorna
    

    re .28, for your information, River Phoenix was in 12 movies since
    1985, so if you don't know who he was, perhaps you are simply
    un-informed?  That would be my guess.
    
    Also, if you want your death to make headline news, all you have to do
    is go out and make 12 movies in less than 10 yrs., and then die. 
    That should be simple enough.  I'd suggest you get started.
    
    Lorna
    

I think that River Phoenix held his own playing against some of the best
actors/actresses of the past few decades, including Harrison Ford (a couple
movies), Robert Redford, Sidney Poitier, and Christine Lahti. 

He was also a hell of a piano player, as shown/heard in 'Running On Empty'.

alan

    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Given that it's being argued anyway, I might as well put my 57 cents
    in....
    
    re: 363.28
    
    1. If you never heard of him, how can you possibly say someone else is
    better? 
    
    2. If you rent a movie every 2 weeks, that's only 26 movies a year.
    Considering there are tens (hundreds?) of thousands of movies in
    existance, and tens of thousands of those in video (that I am aware
    of), and yet you think that since you haven't heard of him, that he is
    a clown? No offense, but you're a minority, pal; study up, there's a
    world out there.
    
    3. If you happened to know how most actors DO work in their line of
    work, I'm sure you wouldn't be so gung-ho with your "Millions of honest
    working slobs like us" balogna. Most of them DO work hard. They get
    headline news because, (big surprise, buddy;) they ARE headline news,
    and in the public eye. 
    
    If you bothered to pay attention, you may have noticed some references
    to a number of movies that have been mentioned that River Phoenix
    starred in. Make a list, put 'em in your rental mental. Then you can
    form an opinion on the man.
    
    Clown....jeez!
    
    Michael
    
    
    

    RE: .31  by 5793::STARR 
    
>I think that River Phoenix held his own playing against some of the best
>actors/actresses of the past few decades, including Harrison Ford (a couple
>movies), ...
    
    Minor nit, but I think River Phoenix only played "against" Harrison
    Ford in one movie, "The Mosquito Coast".
    

    Here in the Uk the news reports this morning said that the postmortom
    was inconclusive,no traces of drugs or the cause of death were found,so
    more tests were needed.
     So no more speculation,until THE experts have an answer...
    
    Tyrone
    

Re: .33


    
>    Minor nit, but I think River Phoenix only played "against" Harrison
>    Ford in one movie, "The Mosquito Coast".
    
ah, but he has played "Harrison Ford" in one movie :-)

    Shut what down?
    
    -moderator

The Boston Globe had a very nicely written appreciation for River Phoenix
this morning. If I get a chance some time, I'll type in the highlights.

BTW, it mentioned that he was nominated for an Academy Award for 'Running
On Empty'. Was that for Best Actor? Or Best Supporting Actor?

alan

P.S. Quite right about the 'playing against Harrison Ford' stuff!  I'll try 
     to pay more attention next time! 8^)

    >BTW, it mentioned that he was nominated for an Academy Award for
    >'Running On Empty'. Was that for Best Actor? Or Best Supporting Actor?
    
    Best Supporting Actor.
    
    They ran a nice appreciation in the LA Times yesterday combining both
    Fellini and Phoenix.  Basically stated that although they were very
    different people & deaths, they both stayed away from conventional,
    mainstream movies.  (Although Fellini was just a tad more extreme ;-)
    
    BTW - He was 23.
    
    There's an article today about the club, the Viper Rm.  It's a new club 
    owned by Chuck E. Weiss, a blues musician, and Johnny Depp.  It's been 
    mainly a more subdue, underground music club up until now.  They're hoping 
    that the H-wood publicity doesn't kill it's image and turn it into a 
    celebrity freak-show.  They closed the club for a week out of respect.
    
    -Vicki

    Re: .5
    
    >Wasn't River also in another movie with K. Reeves called something
    >like Rosincratz & ....
    
    I believe you're thinking of Gary Oldham.

>    There's an article today about the club, the Viper Rm.  It's a new club 
>    owned by Chuck E. Weiss, a blues musician, and Johnny Depp.  It's been 
>    mainly a more subdue, underground music club up until now.  They're hoping 
>    that the H-wood publicity doesn't kill it's image and turn it into a 
>    celebrity freak-show.  They closed the club for a week out of respect.

That's THE Chuck E. Weiss, of the Rickie Lee Jones song "Chuck E's in Love"...

		"And play the cards, roll the dice,
		 If it ain't that old Chuck E. Weiss..."
						Tom Waits

    re. a few back (River Phoenix and K. Reeves)
    
    
    You might be thinking of "I Love You to Death", with Tracy Ulman, Kevin
    Kline, Joan Plowright, etc.   River played the loyal hired help of
    Tracy Ulman (he worked in her pizza joint), and hired the spaced-out
    combo of William Hurt and Mr. Reeves to kill the womanizing Kevin
    Kline.
    
    It was a much better movie than one would suspect at first glance.

    re: .30

    I have no interest in making movies.

    Your guess was correct, I was un-informed.

    re: .32

    1.  You are right, the comparison was invalid.

    2.  Yes, there is a world out there, but in the video store?

    3.  From what I can gather, he spent his career doing what he enjoyed.

(If you don't read the whole thing, you should at least read the last 
 paragraph, which directly relates to some of the discussion here. - alan)

Phoenix: A Generation's Emblem
------------------------------
by Matthew Gilbert
Boston Globe
November 2nd, 1993

	Sadly, a generation has found its own James Dean in River Phoenix,
the actor who died early Halloween morning outside a Sunset Boulevard 
nightclub. Phoenix, a snub-nosed 23-year-old with dirty blond hair, was
best known for his portrayals of troubled, sensitive young men in films 
like "Stand By Me", "My Own Private Idaho" and "Running On Empty", for 
which he won an Oscar nomination. His acting style, interior and intense,
flowed as naturally as his first name.
	For his eight short years in film, Phoenix leaves an impressive
body of work virtually free of teen-age no-brainers. He was cast by some
of the most respected directors in Hollywood, including Peter Weir, Sidney
Lumet, Rob Reiner, Steven Spielberg and Lawrence Kasdan. His performance
as a hustler in Gus Van Sant's "My Own Private Idaho" was his riskiest, and
his most highly praised. It's hard to imagine any other contemporary young
actor making a homeless narcoleptic utterly believable and sympathetic. The
role, for which Phoenix sacrificed his vanity and wore no makeup, won him
Best Actor honors at the Venice Film Festival. 
	Although Phoenix often spoke with pride of his own family, including
his siblings - Rainbow, Leaf, Liberty and Summer - his movie roles made him
an emblem for a generation growing up amid the familial torments of the 
1970's. In many of his films, Phoenix was cast as the son in a family under
extraordinary, and often unpleasant, circumstances. The families in "Running
On Empty", "Little Nikita", "Stand By Me", "My Own Private Idaho", and
the under-rated "The Mosquito Coast" were all in the throes of dysfunction
and duplicity, with Phoenix at the moral and emotional center.
	With his legendary nomadic childhood and his unkempt looks, Phoenix
set his offscreen persona apart from the Young Hollywood pack. He spent his
preteen years traveling through villages in South and Central America with
his parents, poor missionaries for the Children of God sect, and this 
background gave him an arm's-length perspective on glamour and stardom.
Paparazzi often captured him in public resembling his character in "My Own 
Private Idaho" - scruffy, wrinkled and newly woken. "The media dictates how
you're supposed to look", he once told the Globe. "That can destroy your
life, especially when you're young and impressionable."
	Throughout his public career, which began with the fantasy film
"Explorers" in 1985 and took off the next year with "Stand By Me", Phoenix
was vocal in his idealistic views. A vegetarian since age 8, he was an
anti-fur activist and he refused to wear any animal skin. His comments to
the press frequently bore the mark of his missionary parents' 1960s-style
nonconformism, which led them to name him after the River Of Life in Herman
Hesse's "Siddhartha". "Someone like me, who is neither Republican nor a
Democrat, feels faceless in this country, because there's no representation
for the position I hold", he told the Globe last year. "There are many 
people like me, and we should bond - regardless of whether we're black,
gay or straight, with or without AIDS. Because the insane thing is, we are
the majority."
	When he was 5, Phoenix played guitar as he and his sister Rainbow
sang hymns on the streets of Caracas, Venezuala, for money. Music remained
an important part of his life - he once even strummed a Bob Dylan tune
during an interview - and he toured with a low-profile rock band called
Aleka's Attic, which played at the Rat in Boston. The band, which contributed
to an album benefiting People For The Ethical Treatment Of Animals, included
Rainbow Phoenix, whole will appear in Gus Van Sant's forthcoming "Even 
Cowgirls Get The Blues".
	It is Phoenix's film performances that will keep the actor forever
young and alive - and true to his last name. As reports about his sudden
death center around drug abuse, let's hope that River Phoenix is not made
into a poster boy for "Just Say No". With his earnest aspect and his
promising talent, he deserves to be remembered for more than his death.

> Do we know yet if it was definately drug abuse that caused his death ?

	It could take a couple of weeks they said for the additional
	test results to come in (this is what they said last Monday).

Subject: Indian film festival to honor River Phoenix
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 93 21:21:07 EST
	
     SAN FRANCISCO (UPI) -- The opening night of the 18th annual American
Indian Film Festival will be dedicated to actor River Phoenix, who died
suddenly on Oct. 31 after suffering seizures outside a nightclub,
festival organizers said Wednesday.
	
     One of Phoenix's last films, the Western "Silent Tongue" directed
by Sam Shephard, will be premiered at the festival Thursday night at San
Francisco's Palace of Fine Arts Theater.
	
     "River Phoenix was an extraordinary actor and person," festival
director Michael Smith said, announcing the dedication. "His
performance in 'Silent Tongue' is, in my opinion, one of the best of his
career."
	
     In the movie, Phoenix, 23, plays a man grieving over the death of his
Indian wife. His father, played by Richard Harris, sets out to find him
a new Indian bride. "Silent Tongue" will be released in theaters next
February.
	
     The festival, which runs through Nov. 19, will screen films about
American Indian culture and issues.
	
     Its offerings include "The Maze Runner: The Life and Art of T.C.
Cannon," about one of the most influential American Indian artists of
this century, "Paha Sapa," a documentary about the battle between the
Sioux and Cheyenne nations and the federal government for possession of
land in South Dakota's Black Hills, and "Medicine River," a romantic
comedy directed by Stuart Margolin and starring Graham Greene.
	
     Also on the program are "Where the River Flows North," a feature
starring Tantoo Cardinal, Rip Torn and Michael J. Fox, the short film 
"It Starts With a Whisper" and "Longboat," about long-distance
runner Tom Longboat.
	
     On Saturday, the festival presents the 1993 American Indian Motion
Picture Awards, recognizing outstanding work in Indian film.
	
     The American Indian Film Festival is the oldest and best recognized
international film festival dedicated to the preservation of American
Indian images in movies.
	
     Also on Wednesday, Columbia Pictures and Sony Pictures Entertainment
announced the development of a scholarship and internship program for
American Indian college students. The scholarship announcement was made
in conjunction with the upcoming release of Columbia's movie "Geronimo:
An American Legend."

    I was also stunned and saddened by the death of River Phoenix.  I've
    seen almost all of his films and appreciated his talent and charisma,
    and also the apparent closeness he shared with his family.  I read that
    the actress Samantha Mathis who was with River the night of his death,
    had recently starred in a movie with him.  I can't recall the name of
    the film, but believe it has not yet been released.  Does anyone know
    about this film or what the name of it is??
    
    Thanks,
    
    Jean 

BTW, another very good movie starring River Phoenix, which hasn't been 
mentioned yet, was 'Dogfight'. 

alan

    OK, autopsy report's in. It was an overdose of heroine and cocaine,
    with traces of marijuana, Valium, and "a non-prescription cold
    medication". That Nyquil will do it every time. (And here I thought I
    was living dangerously if I drank beer with my headache pills...)
    
    -b

Subject: Coroner: Phoenix died of massive drug overdose
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 93 21:35:27 EST
	
     LOS ANGELES (UPI) -- The Los Angeles County Coroner's Office
determined Friday that actor River Phoenix died accidentally after
ingesting a deadly combination of cocaine, heroin, valium, marijuana and
other drugs.
	
     The 23-year-old actor, known as a health fanatic, collapsed Oct. 31
outside a West Hollywood nightclub popular with young celebrities.
	
     According to the toxicology report, his death was caused by "acute
multiple drug intoxication."
	
     "If that isn't a message to those who want to use drugs out there,"
coroner's spokesman Scott Carrier said. "That's a horrible death."
	
     Examiners found "lethal levels" of cocaine and morphine, probably
ingested as heroin, as well as the prescription sedative valium and
ephedrine, a medicine commonly used to treat asthma and allergy
symptoms.
	
     Phoenix starred in "Stand By Me" and "Indiana Jones and the Last
Crusade." He was scheduled to begin filming "Interview with a Vampire"
this month.
	
     Phoenix was at actor Johnny Depp's club, the Viper Room, with his 19-
year-old brother Joaquin, who works as an actor under the name Leaf
Phoenix, and his sister Rain and a group of friends.
	
     The club is a haven for the young Hollywood crowd, and drug use is
said to be rampant and overt, with patrons cutting lines of cocaine
powder in restrooms or even on tabletops.
	
     When Phoenix began trembling, actress Samantha Mathis and Joaquin
Phoenix helped him outside where he went into seizures.
	
     Joaquin Phoenix told paramedics he believed his brother had taken 
"valium or something."
	
     By the time he arrived at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center a few blocks
away, he had no pulse or blood pressure. He did not respond to efforts
to revive him.
	
     Sheriff's deputies questioned witnesses and concluded there was no
reason to suspect foul play.
	
     According to medical texts, ephedrine itself is not a harsh drug, but
when coupled with marijuana or cocaine, it can cause an irregular or
rapid heartbeat and high blood pressure.
	
     Phoenix was known in some circles as a health maniac, a clean-living
vegetarian who was not seen drinking anything stronger than carrot
juice.
	
     But a crew member on "A Thing Called Love," filmed last winter,
told People magazine that Phoenix "acted messed up and confused" and 
"seemed real thin and unhealthy."
	
     Coroner's spokesman Scott Carrier said it was possible that if
Phoenix was not a regular drug user, he would have little tolerance for
them even in modest doses.
	
     His death has drawn attention to an apparent upswing in drug use
among young actors, musicians and artists in Southern California.
Bartenders and other witnesses of night scenes describe increased use of
heroin, the designer drug known as Ecstacy, and psychedelics like
psilocybin mushrooms.
	
     Filming on "Dark Blood," the movie he was shooting when he died,
has been suspended while producers decide whether to try to complete it.
	
     One of Phoenix's last projects, a feature titled "Silent Tongue,"
was premiered Thursday night at the American Indian Film Festival in San
Francisco. Festival organizers dedicated the opening night to Phoenix.

    Sounds like his sister wasn't coming clean on what he was taking to
    stay away from getting in trouble.  (Sounded like she minimized it to
    admitting to only a prescription drug, i.e., "Valum of something...")

    Nice.  Not disclosing all the drugs to the medics to stay outta
    trouble.  I hope she really didn't know (doubt it) or she is going
    to have one mean guilt trip.  (Especially if the mis-dianoses hindered
    the rescue attempt...)

  I would be cautious of condemning anyone at this point over what was said or
not said. Remember, this is not only hearsay, it's hearsay through the tabloid
press or at least the "tabloid" part of the regular press. Typically their
credibility on what any celeb did or did not say is pretty poor. 

  If someone did lie about what he had taken to save their own skin it could
result in an indictment for felony murder. Without the indictment I wouldn't
believe a word of what was said. 

  George 

Cocaine and heroin (speedball) are what did Belushi in.

John D.

    re .57, I wish people would remember not to take them both at the same
    time.
    
    Lorna
    

>    re .57, I wish people would remember not to take them both at the same
>    time.

but it's fine to take them seperately???

I'm glad you weren't my mom!!! Or I'd be in River's place now...
(Of course, you probably wouldn't mind that, would you Lorna???)

;-)

/scott

When someone who should know better mixes all that stuff together, you
have to wonder if there's maybe a thought of suicide.  

Bob

>When someone who should know better mixes all that stuff together, you
>have to wonder if there's maybe a thought of suicide.  

Maybe if he was home all alone or something... but not when out clubbing...

/scott

.55> Sounds like his sister ....

	Brother, not sister!

    Drug abuse isn't necessarily a sign of a death wish, but in Pheonix'
    case (as with many people who are suddenly catapulted to fame
    and fortune) drugs are one way, and certainly not a good way, to
    deal with self-image problems.  I'm pretty sure it must be a lot
    easier to deal with the question "How can I possibly be worth all this
    money and attention?" when zonked out on drugs.
    
    One can only hope that others dealing with sudden fame will take
    a lesson from this tragedy.  Only it's an old, old story in Hollywood,
    one that doesn't seem to teach lessons.
    
    Richard

    re: .58, Well *I* thought it was funny and apposite.

    I chuckled at it too

    Geez,what a shock! Drug overdose! You hardly hear of *anything* like
    that going on among celebrities,right? And here I was thinking the guy
    was some sort of health freak! Somebody must've forced him,huh?
    Kinda makes you wonder which supposedly "clean-living" hero will be
    next. This is great for the war on drugs: "Look at River Phoenix,he's
    one guy that can just say no"
    
    Ken

    Well, his death has certainly given a lot of Digital employees
    something to feel smug and self-righteous over, that's for sure!
    
    Lorna
    
    ps - do you think Superior Nerds would be a good name for a rock group?
    
         just wondering...i don't know what made me think of it
    

    No, but "The Bagheads" might work.... Now where did I see that ? ;-);-)

    
    Not that it matters much...but I read that a speedball is
    injected by a needle.  There were no needle marks on River.
    He either enhaled or took the drugs my mouth.
    
    Belusi died of speedball (needle) yes, it's the same drugs, but
    I guess they act very diffrent depening how you get them into
    your body.
    
    FWIW
    
    LKP

I wonder why noone is considering the possibility that this was not self 
inflicted...

there are some people who think it's funny to slip people a mickey...

if this was done to someone who had no tolerance for the alchohol/drugs the the 
chances of it being lethal are high.

  ... were that the case, it would be murder.

  George

> ... were that the case, it would be murder.

	Or manslaugter (assuming it was accidental and not pre-meditated)

  No, it would be murder.

  Murder is a homicide committed "with malice aforethought". Under common law
the three types of murder are:

  Premeditated Murder - Where the killing of the individual was planned in
                             advance.

  Felony Murder      - Where someone dies due to the commission of a felony.

  Depraved Heart Murder - Where someone is killed as a result of deliberate
                           disregard for public safety (i.e. a pipe bomb in a
                           train station).

  If someone had given RP this drug without his knowledge it would be Felony
Murder since the he would have died as the result of someone committing a
felony, in this case distributing a controlled substance. 

  If someone dies as a due to the commission of a misdemeanor, that would be
manslaughter. 

  George

> No, it would be murder.
> Murder is a homicide committed "with malice aforethought".

	There seems to be a contradiction here (plus the malice appears
	redundant according to Webster):

afore.thought \-.tho.t\ aj : PREMEDITATED, DELIBERATE {with malice~}

    The deliberation needed to mix a poisoned drink is enough
    to make this murder.  You don't have to "meditate" killing
    months in advance, just minutes.
    
    		-John Bishop

RE <<< Note 363.74 by 12368::michaud "Jeff Michaud, PATHWORKS for Windows NT" >>>

>	There seems to be a contradiction here (plus the malice appears
>	redundant according to Webster):

>afore.thought \-.tho.t\ aj : PREMEDITATED, DELIBERATE {with malice}

  No, there is no conflict at all. The definitions for murder, which are used
by the U.S. Federal Government and most states, including California and
Massachusetts, come from British Common Law and have been around for centuries.

  Under common law, a murder is a homicide committed with malice aforethought
and the common law definition goes on to define the 3 types of murder,
premeditated murder, felony murder, and depraved heart murder more or less as
I spelled them out in the previous note. 

  The difference is that "premeditated" refers to the planning of the murder
of one specific individual. "Malice aforethought" is more general. It includes
premeditated but it also includes the type of malice and planning that goes
into the other types of homicide making them murder.

  The plea bargains are usually done when the prosecution feels that they can't
make the case for murder but the defense is worried the jury might convict.
It's a low risk move where both sides minimize their chances, the prosecution
get's some jail time but the defendant avoids the chance of death or life
without parole. It's the defendant that accepts or rejects the bargain, not
the lawyer.

  Of course in this case this is all speculation, we have no idea if anyone
slipped him the drugs. It will be interesting to see what develops.

  George

> The deliberation needed to mix a poisoned drink is enough
> to make this murder.

	Since we're still conjecturing :-).  Yes, someone
	slipping drugs into someone elses drink is deliberate,
	but you assumed they knew they were making a "poisoned
	drink".  Not everyone is quite as smart as you guys &
	gals :-)

	And there's more than one reason to plea bargin .....

RE <<< Note 363.77 by 12368::michaud "Jeff Michaud, PATHWORKS for Windows NT" >>>

>	Since we're still conjecturing :-).  Yes, someone
>	slipping drugs into someone elses drink is deliberate,
>	but you assumed they knew they were making a "poisoned
>	drink".  

  No, under common law if someone knew that they were putting a controlled
substance into someone's drink they would be committing a felony. That's
"malice aforethought". If someone dies due to that felony, that's Felony
Murder. 

>	And there's more than one reason to plea bargain .....

  I suppose, but the most common reason the prosecution plea bargains is
because they are afraid they can't prove their case. The most common reason
a defendant takes a plea is because they are afraid of a sever sentence.

  If there are other reasons, they would be unique circumstances.

  The defense lawyer may negotiate the plea with the prosecutor but the final
decision is up to the defendant who always has the right to a trial by jury. 

  George

>    Well, his death has certainly given a lot of Digital employees
>    something to feel smug and self-righteous over, that's for sure!

ya - it's really awful that a lot of Digital employees think River
wasted away his life for something as stupid as a temporary high. I
mean, that is smug and self-righteous, to speak the truth about how
stupid his death was.

we'd be much better off to not look at his death and learn from his
mistakes... ya, we don't wanna tell people what's right and wrong...
let them find out for themselves (ala River)...

/scott

> If there are other reasons, they would be unique circumstances.

	The system as a whole is made up of unique circumstances!
	If the law was so clear cut we wouldn't need judges or
	juries :-)

	If I remember, the woman who was charged with giving
	Belushi the final fatal injection was never convicted
	(was she even indited?) of murder?  It's been so long
	I don't remember ....

	You may very well be right (but why would you be working
	for DEC :-) but I'm a cynic ....

RE <<< Note 363.80 by 12368::michaud "Jeff Michaud, PATHWORKS for Windows NT" >>>

>	The system as a whole is made up of unique circumstances!
>	If the law was so clear cut we wouldn't need judges or
>	juries :-)

  Sure, but under common law the outcome of a case is often based on precedent
and precedent is based on what happens more times than not. It's been my
observation that the large majority of plea bargains come when the prosecution
does not feel they can get a conviction for a more severe charge and the
defense is worried that they might. 

>	If I remember, the woman who was charged with giving
>	Belushi the final fatal injection was never convicted
>	(was she even indited?) of murder?  It's been so long
>	I don't remember ....

  I don't remember the outcome of that either, but that would be a good case
of where a plea bargain would happen. Because Belushi was a known user, it
would have been difficult to make a murder charge or even a manslaughter
charge stick. Yet fear that it might stick might induce the defense to settle
for a plea to a lesser drug charge.

  George

Re: .several-back

Of course it would be murder - I never said it wouldn't - so how many people 
are suprised if no-one "owns-up" ?

I wouldn't be suprised it it turns out to have been the brother playing a joke 
on the famous sibling - jealousy and all that - that went badly wrong - he 
certainly seemed to have been aware that valium at least had been ingested...

> Sure, but under common law the outcome of a case is often based on precedent
> and precedent is based on what happens more times than not.

	Again a big part of why it's not cut and dry.  Just like
	the written laws themselves, argueing precedence in a
	courtroom is also left to interpretation, not to mention
	that it's possible to find multiple cases that offer
	conflicting precdences.

	FWIW, at least one other known reason for plea bargins is
	the cost associated with going to court (potentially
	multiple times w/appeals).  How often it happens I don't
	know.

RE<<< Note 363.83 by 12368::michaud "I play a lawyer on TV, but in real life ...." >>>

>	Again a big part of why it's not cut and dry.  Just like
>	the written laws themselves, argueing precedence in a
>	courtroom is also left to interpretation, not to mention
>	that it's possible to find multiple cases that offer
>	conflicting precdences.

  I don't think anyone is arguing this. All I said was that the most common
reason for a plea bargain is that the prosecution is not sure of their case
and the defense is afraid of a low chance of a high sentence so they agree
on something in the middle.

>	FWIW, at least one other known reason for plea bargins is
>	the cost associated with going to court (potentially
>	multiple times w/appeals).  How often it happens I don't
>	know.

  Could be.

  George

>                      <<< Note 363.78 by 7361::MAIEWSKI >>>
>>	And there's more than one reason to plea bargain .....
>
>  I suppose, but the most common reason the prosecution plea bargains is
>because they are afraid they can't prove their case. The most common reason
>a defendant takes a plea is because they are afraid of a sever sentence.

The most common reason the prosecution proposes a plea bargain
is to get SOME conviction, any conviction without the complications of a trial.
Uncertainty is a small part of it, though committing to a trial puts 
convictions at risk if things slip out too far.
It's a resource issue - there are only so many prosecutors and court slots.
You've heard about the clogged court system?  
Plea bargaining is an attempt to mitigate the causes of the clogs.
Getting a defendant to admit to something and accept a conviction,
with or without jail time, to avoid an expensive (for both sides) trial 
is the state's goal.

- tom]

    <Ahem.> Would someone care to start a LEGAL_ISSUES conference and take
    this (fascinating, but somewhat out of place) discussion over there?
    
    [Or else write it all up and submit it to the major networks as part of
    a proposal for the made-for-TV-movie about Mr. Phoenix's untimely
    demise, which I am expecting to be announced any second now...]
    
    Thank you,
    -b-the-moderator

  Moderators, they always spoil your fun.

  And we haven't even touched Stare Decisis or Race Judicata.

  :*)}
  George

Re .54

>>But a crew member on "A Thing Called Love," filmed last winter,
>>told People magazine that Phoenix "acted messed up and confused" and
>>"seemed real thin and unhealthy."

Caught this on cable the other day.  River did in fact look pretty bad. 
Very pasty and withdrawn.  What else would you expect from a junkie vampire?
River did do a great performance though.  A little bit of James Dean I thought. 
And Sandra Bullock looked great in this movie.  

And from the shallow end:

Re .4

>>I used to feel guilty about how attractive I thought he was because I'm
>>old enough to be his mother.  :-)

Recently read this about two celebrities that probably never met each other,
Kurt Cobain and River Phoenix. The two things they had in common was that they
were both good looking and both were responsible for their own deaths 
(head and heart).  Okay, both were musicians. 

Both were pulled from ads from some group that crusades against cruelty to 
animals, the ones that dump blood on fur coats.  Was it because they are no
longer around or because of this paradox?  This was done after their demises.

Paul