Conference bookie::movies

The best feel-bad movie I've seen to date is Zentropa.

Grime, psychological abuse, war rubble, despondency, terrorist 
organizations, bombings, hangings, drownings, suicide by exsanguination, small
children commiting political assasinations.....it's all
here, in black and white AND color.  Gee, just like the Wizard of Oz.

I highly suggest seeing this on the big screen, and sitting in the first ten 
rows of the theater.

Lisa

Another feel bad movie is Brazil.

Ductwork, plastic surgery, ductwork, bureaucracy, ductwork, terrorism,
ductwork, torture, ductwork, Robert DeNiro, ductwork, insanity, ductwork,
it's all here.

The last 20 seconds of the movie are definitely the feel-bad "clincher".

The first feel-bad movie I ever saw.

Lisa

The second feel-bad movie I ever saw was Parents.

This would not have been nearly as disturbing if they hadn't set the
story in total electric 50's art deco style.  Also, the casting of Randy
Quaid as the father was essential.

The basic premise of the film was that the kid kept being fed meat for
supper, but his parents wouldn't tell him where the meat came from
so he had to find out for himself.

Make sure to see this one on the big screen so that you don't miss any of the
home furnishings.

Lisa

The most unexpected feel-bad movie I saw was The Manchurian Candidate.
I'm sure the circumstances under which I saw it had a lot to do with its
impact on me.

It was New Years Eve (actually early New Year's morning) and my friends and 
I were quite tired.  We stuffed the movie into the VCR and then began to
doze off thinking "My God, not another war movie.  And one with Frank Sinatra
to boot".

Suddenly, the, ummmm.......Ladies Home and Garden Show scene came on.
Suddenly we became mesmerized by what was on the screen.  As the movie
ended we shook out our heads.  One of my friends later on told me that
she was so impressed, she went out and watched it again.

This definitely works the best if you have no clue what's going to go
on the first time you watch it.

Also, watch for Angela Landsbury.  No, she's not Jessica Fletcher in this
one.

Lisa

Henry, Portrait of a Serial Killer.

Lisa

This whole topic was brought on by my watching Last Exit to Brooklyn
yesterday.

The seedier side of repulsive characters brought to your VCR.  Slimy
union bosses, domineering fathers, prostitutes, young children with
no future, flaming tranvestites, evil militia men..........throw in constant
headbashing, knives through legs, people hit by cars, people kicked to
death, tear gas, blood, rape.....

You don't feel sorry for anyone by the time this is over.

This one's OK for the VCR.

Lisa

    Filled with a dark, depressing look into the future.  
    Memories of years gone by available only to those who
    choose to die. Strawberry jam at $250.00 a jar. Food
    processed in wafer form and color-coded for nutrition
    levels. Violence and dispair everywhere you looked.
    
    This film disturbed me terribly some 18-19 years ago 
    when I first saw it and I still can't bring myself 
    to see it again.
    
    Jodi-

    
    Eraserhead.  Definitely.
    
    The soundtrack, the dialog, the images, everything - is depressing
    and uncomfortable.
    
    - Sean

    "The Cook, the Thief, his Wife, and her Lover".  I have never hated a
    movie so much as I hated this one.  I stayed through it all, but when I
    walked out of the theatre after it was over my whole day was ruined,
    and I just felt disgusted.
    
    -- Mike

'Man Bites Dog' a Belgian/French film (sorry, I don't have the original
title at hand) currently playing at the Coolidge Corner.  First 45
minutes or so you laugh at the satirical portrayal of an absolutely
mechanical killer.  Then, it becomes not so funny and you're uncomfortable
about having laughed at it.

    "Promised Land," a movie starring Keifer Sutherland, Meg Ryan, Jason
    Gedrick, and Tracy Pollan.  Four high school graduates going nowhere
    with one of the most depressing endings I've ever seen.
    
    "Crooked Hearts," with Peter Coyote and others.  A family that makes
    even the most disfunctional family seem like Ozzie and Harriet.
    
    "Man in the Moon," a "feel good" movie with a "feel real bad" scene 
    in the middle.
    
    Mike

Threads - A docudrama of what "really" happens when the Bomb hits.  Seemed
very realistic and very depressing.  Made "the day after" look like a kiddy show

1984 - The "1984" version.  Egads, total depression.  My wife threatened to leave
me if I EVER took her to see another movie like that again.

    "Pink Floyd: The Wall" - a must-see after viewing 
    "THe Man Who Saw Tomorrow" which, as a teenager, I took
    WAAAAAAY too seriously.
    
    I walked out of The Wall about halfway through. Maybe it
    had a "happy" ending, but I can't bring myself to watch it.
    
    helen

    1) A Handful of Dust - a well done and interesting movie with just
                           about the bleakest ending I've ever seen...
                           
    
    2) Roger & Me - documentary about lay-offs in Detroit - very
                    depressing & interesting
    
    3) Matewan -    John Sayles movie about union workers trying to get
                    better rights for mine workers - very good movie -
                    made me very angry.
    
    4) Kafka -      Depressing, had a lot to say & I enjoyed it
    
    5) The Handmaid's Tale - bleak look at a possible rightwing,
                             religious-nut future, very scary prospect,
                             but I loved the movie
    
    6) Thelma & Louise -     tragic ending, great movie
    
    7) The Stepford Wives -  bleak early warning of current feminist
                             backlash? depressing statement of male
                             espectations of marriage? but, good movie
    
    8) Of Mice & Men -       such a good movie, so depressing (& sort've
                             uplifting at the same time)
    
    
    Lorna
    

'Rush' with Jennifer Jason-Liegh and Jason Patric.

'Whore' with Thersa Russell.

Lots of classics like 'MacBeth'.....

alan

Oh yeah, A CLockwork Orange.  How could I forget this one.

The all-time bleakest view of the future.  And having Malcolm McDowell
in the leading role (my nominee for the most physically repungent actor)
helped it out.

What makes it even worse, is that it's probably the "most likely
depressing future to actually occur in real life".

And to get off the subject a bit, has there ever been a movie starring
Jennifer Jason Leigh where good things actually happen to her?
Besides Last Exit to Brooklyn and Rush, she was in Fast Times at Ridgemont
High (where she got cast as a "good girl turned sex maniac turned good girl"
and The Best Little Girl in the World (where she was cast as a girl with
severe anorexia).

Lisa

    Sean Young and James Woods star as a couple getting
    addicited/unaddicted/addicted to drugs.
    
    Shawn

    _Blade Runner_  Harrison Ford seeking out renegade androids in 21st
    (or so) century L.A.  Violence, but the worst part was the background
    mood of future L.A. being more crowded and filthy than today's L.A.
    
      John

    A Clockwork Orange.  The absolute worst ... depressing, violent,
    horrifying, disturbing.
    
    Shoot the Moon - Albert Finney and Diane Keaton, about a totally
    selfish pig of a man and his affair with Karen Allen and his divorce
    from Keaton ... and what it did to his four daughters, especially Dana
    Hill, the oldest.  Great acting, but definitely a feel bad movie.
    
    Looking for Mr. Goodbar - Poor Diane Keaton!  The victim again ... this
    time EVERYONE's victim, from her father to her first lover to her last
    moments, and everyone in between.
    
    Leslie

    Platoon.   Not a happy film, by any means, although a good one.
    
    
    Killing Fields.  Although it had a fairly "happy" ending, it was still
    a far from happy film.  
    
    Hamlet.  Jeez.  The only film I've seen where everybody dies.  
    
    (since Hamlet has been out for what? 300+ years, I hope that isn't a
    spoiler... :)
    
    kim

    re .21, I agree with Platoon.  I'd add that to my list.
    
    I could only bear to see it once.
    
    Lorna
    

    A few more:
    
        Casualties of War....Michael J. Fox  Sean Penn
    
        Das Boot
    
    	Ran
    
    Shawn
    

    "After Hours".  Even though it was a comedy, I could not bear to watch
    it a second time.
    
    -- Mike

    Prince of Tides.
    
    I was gripping my armrests through the whole film.
    My friend who saw it with me seemed distured as well.
    A couple months ago my sister came to visit. I asked
    her if she's seen PoT. She shook her head and told
    me she flipped out after seeing it and spent several
    days for several weeks in therapy.
    
    Can you say dysfunctional family? If you can, then you
    can have mine.
    
    Jodi-

Wait, there's this one "educational" film on drugs that they used
to show all the 7th graders in my Middle School.  It was called
"Dead is Dead".  It basically showed DT's in totally spectacular detail.

You used to see it during health period.  Since everyone didn't have health 
at the same time, the lucky ones who saw it first told everyone else 
about the good parts.  "Yeah, like this guy has the runs and you see
go down the side of the toilet, and then this woman pukes to 'Lean on Me',
and then these people with holes in their legs just put the drugs right
in......."

Of course, this was morbidly fascinating material.  People used to be
excited that today was the day they would see THE FILM.  And then
you saw it and went "EEEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW".

It had no effect whatsoever on anyone's decision whether or not to use
drugs.

Lisa

Tribulation 99.

This was the worst movie I've ever sat all the way through.  I felt
awful not only because I had PAID for the experience, but because I had
convinced someone else to come along with me.

Lisa

    
    "I Spit On Your Grave"
    
     If you feel good after watching this video, you may need a good
    shrink.
    
    
     

    I have several.  Most recently:
    
    Batman Returns.  Not the Batman I grew up reding.  Also not anything I
    		remotely considered good.  Yet another Tim Burton movie
    		bemoaning lack of family love.
    
    Crimes and Misdemeanors.  Woody Allen has a long discussion explaining
    		why he had  to ruin "Purple Rose of Cairo."  Made me root
    		for Mia.
    
    Sex, Lies, and Videotape.  A bunch of unhappy people bemoaning their
    		unhappiness.  I kept waiting for something to happen. 
    		Finally, something did: they turned on the lights.
    
    Dead Poet's Society.  Robin Williams as a teacher who commits the
    		ultimate crime in the school he works for:  he teaches his
    		students how to think on their own (It's possible I hated
    		this one due to being an ex-schoolteacher).
    
    tom

    - Jacob's ladder
    
    - the movie about young man kept prisoner in a turkish jail
      becaus of drugs, the title was something with "48 hours"
    
    
    Andrea

    RE -1:
    
    I think you mean MIDNIGHT EXPRESS?
    
    ***
    
    TRULY, MADLY, DEEPLY -- I enjoyed it but it upset me for days
    afterwards.  I rented it to watch and had to stop it and cry for a
    while before I could stand to finish it.
    
    FRANCES - Jessica Lange as Frances Farmer.  The scenes dealing with
    mental illness, real or perceived.
    
    

    
    	Two that come to mind right now (I know there are others) are:
    
    DEFCON 4
    The Day After
    
    
    Tim

    re. last
    
    DEFCON 4 was more of a bad movie rather than a 'feel bad' movie.  I
    didn't feel bad after watching this, I felt really stupid for having
    wasted 90 minutes of my life doing it.
    
    
    
    kim

    Goodfellas - the acting was good, but movie was so violent, and
                 contained such callous attitudes towards human life,
                 that it made me feel really bad after watching it.
    
    Last of the Mohicans - The blood and guts in this movie was so
                           sickening that I it made me want to puke.
    
    Full Metal Jacket -    This movie made me very angry - the violence,
                            and the insensitivity of the U.S. Marine 
                            Corps towards soldiers who were having
                            trouble adjusting to military life sickened
                            me.
    
    
    Lorna
    

    RE: .30  by 49438::BARTAK 
    
      >the movie about young man kept prisoner in a turkish jail
      >becaus of drugs, the title was something with "48 hours"
    
    2400 hours express?
    

    re..31,.35
    
    .31 is correct - it was of course "Midnight Express".
    
    The German Title was "12:00 h nachts", therefore I was confused with
    the hours. 
    
    Andrea
    
    

    "Klute" always depresses me. though it's a good movie, the milieu
    is just so sordid.
    
    Richard

    Drugstore Cowboy - this movie depresses me, although it's well done and
                       the acting is good, but as .37 said about Klute,
                       "the milieu is just so sordid."  :-)
                       (i like that phrase)
    
    Lorna
    
    

    "The War Game" by Peter Watkins, a film about life after nuclear war, 
    commissioned (and subsequently rejected) by the BBC in the late 60s.  
    
    This film will convince *anyone* that the end of the world is nigh, 
    and very unpleasant.
    
    Matter of fact, all Peter Watkins films feel bad - an Edvard Munch 
    biopic, a grizzly "documentary" of the battle of Culloden etc. etc.

       Sarafina qualifies, esp. since I went into the movie knowing
       nothing about it except that it was a musical, starred Whoopi
       Goldberg, and took place in S Africa.

    ("Parents" is very special to me since my father looked _exactly_ like
    the Randy Quaid character when he was the Quaid character's age and I
    was the nerdy boy's age.)

    Well, where to begin?  As the big hit song from Godard's "The Married
    Woman" goes, "Sad movies always make me cry".  I love a good wallow in
    the sloughs of despond, and, sorry, "Roger & Me" is a mere puddle of
    despond.

    There was a great silent movie starring Lon Chaney, called "He Who Is
    Slapped".  I've seen it only once, but the spot is still tender.  Tears
    of a psychotic clown.  

    Pabst's "Pandora's Box" is sexy in a Germanic way (i.e., bleak).  

    Von Stroheim never did much for me, but his silents can't be accused of
    cheeriness.  Von Sternberg was the Peter Greenaway of his time, and he
    had Marlene Dietrich, to boot.

    Just about any Garbo movie can be counted on for some lovingly lingered
    over torture.

    Hitchcock was great at sneaking cynical stories with unlikeable
    characters trapped in awful circumstances past mass audiences. An early
    example is "Sabotage", with its dull deceitful hero seducing the wife
    of a pathetic anarchist, and the suspense scene where we're kept on the
    edge of our seats for minutes as a cute little boy and a cute little
    puppy sit on a bus with a bomb -- and then Hitchcock blows up the bus. 
    I'll try to keep the list of favorites short, but there's also: 
    
      - "Secret Agent" with John Gielgud as the coldest romantic hero 
         of all time, and the good guys, with a great deal of effort,
         managing to assassinate an innocent man...  
    
      -  Emotional B&D in "Notorious", with Claude Raines as a 
         heartbreakingly sweet Nazi... 
    
      -  "Psycho", the purest demonstration of emptied narrative in the 
         history of commercial film; only comparable to Antonioni... 
    
      -  "Vertigo", probably the best of the many melancholy San Francisco
         films; as pure a tragedy as film has to offer... 
    
    Hitchcock was one jolly fat guy.

    Speaking of San Francisco, it doesn't get much bleaker than madcap
    Richard Lester's 1968 "Petulia", with George C. Scott in a painfully
    accurate divorce, Julie Christie married to wife-beating Richard
    Chamberlain, and a classically sardonic last line.  I never have
    trusted Chamberlain, and he makes a great villain.

    Ingmar Bergman is usually touted as the Sultan of Sychodrama, and for
    my dirty money, he never did better than "Persona", a grating wildly
    experimental look at just how awful life is, particularly human beings.

    For some reason, Fellini's "La Dolce Vita" has recently slipped in
    critical estimation.  I don't know if it's because Fellini became Clown
    Central soon afterward or because critics are all thumbs nowadays,
    but I still say that any movie which features three pounds of black
    make-up under Marcello Mastroianni's eyes, the only decent optimistic
    character killing himself and his family, Nico flirting, AND a giant
    dead fish, is a damn fine movie.

    Michelangelo Antonioni.  I love this guy.  He's devoted his entire life
    to pointing out that inanimate objects, particularly if immobile as
    well, are much much more interesting than people.  In "Il Grido" you
    get to watch a poor slob wander around miserable and lonely from place
    to place until he dies.  "L'Avventura", or "It's A Wonderful Life,
    Not", demonstrates that one person's existence doesn't make a damn bit
    of difference to anyone else; all that really matters are rocks.  In
    "L'Eclisse", the camera spends the last 10 minutes staring at a street
    corner where nothing is happening, since both the hero and the heroine
    are standing up the date they'd made with each other; the camera is
    just as glad.  In "Red Desert", we watch a suicidal neurotic woman go
    from painful color scheme to painful color scheme, finally seeking
    solace in new friend Richard Harris, who promptly date-rapes her;
    luckily, the camera has all kinds of neato factories to look at.  In
    "The Passenger" (the movie Jack Nicholson supressed!), the camera is so
    bored that it wanders off in the last 15 minutes to stroll around the
    block, while the hero is (somehow) being tracked down and killed
    elsewhere.  Antonioni doesn't work on TV though, so don't rent the
    videos; your attention starts wandering to your carpet, your sofa, the
    angle your bookcase makes to the wall...
    

Did your father feed you meat, Ray?

Did I remember to mention Street Trash here?
This, and the remake of the Fly, have been the only two movies I can
remember that actually GROSSED ME OUT.

But Street Trash ws the worse of the two since the storyline was so 
sordid.  They had all these mentally disturbed bums who had this mini-society
inside a landfill.  Most were alcoholics, too, and the story rotated 
around this extra cheap Viper vodka that someone had uncovered in a basement
somewhere and was selling to them.

Thing was, if you drank this vodka, your body would turn into blue ooze.
Untold frames of this picture spent showing the transformation from sinew
to jello.  And even when you weren't watching people melt, the characters
kept sending you into the bathroom for appointments with the ceramic
therapist.

Lisa

Did I mention Pink Flamingos here yet?

This was an early John Waters film featuring really awful characters
and despicable acts.

There's one woman who spends the whole film in a playpen, fawning over
the milkman and his eggs.   There's a talent show where some guy shows us 
amazing feats you can do with your rectal opening.

And then there's the climax, which I had been tipped off to earlier, where
Divine coprophagiates.  Even though I knew it was going to happen
it was a far more nefarious occurance to watch I ever could have expected.

This and Street Trash are probabaly the only two movies I find too 
disgusting to ever watch again.

Lisa

    re .41, do you have any relatives that look like *Dennis* Quaid?  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

>    re .41, do you have any relatives that look like *Dennis* Quaid?  :-)
    
    No, but nowadays my father looks like Jonathan Winters.
    
    "Street Trash" is sickening, but I give it points for attitude.  
    
    Edie the Egg Lady (from "Pink Flamingos") is a real hero of mine and I
    won't hear a word agin her.  Many's the smooth move I've made on a lust
    object while repeating those sacred words, "Ooooh, I love you, too! But
    <giggle> I love my eggy-weggies just a little bit more!"
    
    "The Fly" will be in Part 3.
    
    Ray

    I remember watching "Pink Flamingos" in an Indianapolis theatre and
    hearing a woman behind me saying, "This is disgusting!"  And that was
    only five minutes into the movie!  She walked out long before Divine's
    infamous scene at the end.
    
    "Pink Flamingos" is definitely an experience.  :-)
    
    -- Mike

    Ohhhh....  
    
    I thought "Pink Flamingoes" was a lovely film.  Age 18 I wanted 
    to live in that world like age 4 I wanted to be in "Play School".
    
    Another happy one is the highly graphic "Pure Sh*t", a mid-70s
    documentary about Melbourne junkies.  If you ever thought of taking 
    a needle to your veins...  
    
    An obvious feel-bad candidate is that film by the guy who made 
    "Solaris" - you know, the one where the house burns.  Also destroying
    houses - Antonioni's "Zabriskie Point".

    Another feel bad movie:  Shalom Bombay - I think that's the title?  
                                            Is that the title of that
                                            movie that came out a couple
                                            of years ago about the life
                                            of a street kid in Bombay?
    
    That movie made me think, "Wow! I'd hate to be a street kid in
    Bombay, you know?"  :-)  Very depressing.
    
    Lorna
    
    

    
    	Michael Keaton doing a good job playing a drug and alcohol abuser
    in an excellent drama that made me squirm.
    
    	Mike

	What about "My Own Private Idaho" ? Sad Sad Sad 

	/Cap'n Quad    

.41> I love a good wallow in the sloughs of despond, and, sorry,
.41> "Roger & Me" is a mere puddle of despond.
    
    If Topaz is gonna object to abuse of "Vomitorium" then I've got to
    praise Ray's clever construct that makes dual use of the noun "slough".
    Probably a bit too exotic to submit to Reader's Digest, though.
    
    Another FeelBad movie is "The Good Soldier", Ford Madox Ford's tale of
    two couples, one American one English, in early 20th century Europe.
    Wealth fails to buy happiness.  I've only got the PBS tape, don't know
    if it's been produced for the big screen.
    
      John

    I don't think anyone has mentioned "Sid & Nancy" yet, but that was a
    definite downer.
    
    -- Mike

    
    	I have to agree with .50 (6602::SCHIAVONE) My Own Private Idaho was
    
    a pitiful excuse for a film.
    
    
    
    Tim

    re .53, if I say I consider a movie a downer, or a feel bad movie, that
    doesn't mean that I didn't think it was a good movie.  In fact, I think
    that just about all the movies I've mentioned in this topic were good
    movies.  I think My Own Private Idaho was somewhat sad, but I enjoyed
    it a lot, and thought it was a good movie.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    re .54
    	My apologies Lorna, when I replied to .50 about "My Own Private
    Idaho" I mistakingly thought I was in the "Vomitorium" note which is
    where "My Own Private Idaho" belongs in my opinion. A sad movie yes and
    a waste of time, again my own opinion.
    
    
    Tim 

>    An obvious feel-bad candidate is that film by the guy who made 
>    "Solaris" - you know, the one where the house burns. 
    
    Andrei Tarkovsky, one of my favorite directors.  Another for Part 3. 
    (No one is gonna be interested in Part 2, I can tell already.)
    
    My favorite junkie movie is "Trash", but it's a comedy of manners.
    
    "Zabriskie Point & Click" and "My Privates Look Like Potatoes" are
    both too upbeat for my taste.
    
    Ray

    Has no one ever been depressed by "one flew over the Cuckoo's nest"?
    I am every time ;-{

    re .57, I think "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" is one of those
    movies that is both depressing an uplifting at the same time. 
    Something bad happens to one of the main characters, but something good
    happens to another one, for example.
    
    I think Awakenings is similar in that it's depressing, but with an
    ultimately uplifting and affirmative ending.
    
    Lorna
    

>    	My apologies Lorna, when I replied to .50 about "My Own Private
>    Idaho" I mistakingly thought I was in the "Vomitorium" note which is
>    where "My Own Private Idaho" belongs in my opinion. A sad movie yes and
>    a waste of time, again my own opinion.
    
    


	Thanks for clarifying Tim, I liked MOPI and was not refering to sad
	as the state of the movie but how it made me feel.  
	
	IMHO	
	/Cap'n Quad
		

		

    RE: .48  by VAXWRK::STHILAIRE 
    
    >Another feel bad movie:  Shalom Bombay - I think that's the title?  
    
    "Salaam Bombay", I think.
    
    "Galipolli" and "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" were two that left me
    sitting helplessly in tears at the end.
    
    "J.F.K." had me in tears before the opening credits had finished.
    
    "It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" had me in tears at the end and not
    from laughter.  I was devastated by Spencer Tracy's surprising turn.
    

    
    That's true.  How could I forget "Gallipoli"?  Or "Breaker Morant"?
    
    Egad.  They're both great, but utterly depressing.
    
    
    kim

    One of the best movies I've seen in a while, but the outcome is totally
    downbeat.
    
    Shawn

    Re .62: Well, that's a matter of opinion. Under the circumstances, I
    think things turned out as happily as they possibly could for nearly
    everybody concerned.
    
    ;-)
    
    -b

    			A Boy and His Dog
    		   (with a young Don Johnson)

    Blue Velvet.   Extremely disturbing and kind of creepy.   

    How about "Glory" very good flick but depressing and true ending.
    
    				Bart
    			

    1) Full Metal Jacket - Didn't Stanly Kubrick direct?  Twilight Zone
    movie with no hope; could have been called "Waiting to Die" - How do
    others feel this compared with other Vietnam movies?  Different topic?
    
    2) Clockwork Orange - the glorification of violence; made it look good,
    like it was the wave of the future and "the way to go"  Somehow this
    didn't depress me.
    
    3) The Crying Game - the love story didn't take away the underlying
    feel of hopelessness and violence as a way of life
    
    4) Can't remember the name - amateur writer who goes to Hollywood to be
    a screenwriter; holes up in this room - John Goodman is his neighbor in
    the hotel; the place goes up in flames???
    
    

	My favorite feel bad movie is Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf?

	------MM

    Re: .67
    
    Barton Fink
    

    I have two words for you: Film Noir.

    This tag (French for "blaxploitation") was attached after the fact to
    movies made in the '40s and '50s, movies which, like mudskippers and
    Digital middle management, adapted in a wondrous way to environmental
    stress. 

    Lots of movies had to be made.  They had to be made cheap.  They had to
    be made interesting.  Finally, any action (at least, any action too
    morally complex for an average Care Bear to handle before breakfast)
    had to be punished. 

    Film Noir is easily derived from these conditions:

    	If Cheap, then no Spectacle.
    	If Interesting and not-Spectacle, then Action.
    	If Action, then Punishment.
    	Punishment is therefore Inevitable.
    	If Punishment and Inevitable, then Fate.
    	If Punishment and Interesting, then Sadism.
    	Therefore, "Sadistic Fate", or Film Noir.  Q.E.D.

    Sadistic Fate also turned out to be an abiding personal concern for
    European and other artsy directors once they realized that they were
    stuck in Hollywood, leading to lots of cool Expressionist and Brechtian
    influences.

    Orson Welles, for example, supplied an unprepared world with "The Lady
    From Shanghai", the only film in which Welles as director didn't give
    his own role a death scene.  Instead he killed his career.  This
    bizarre concoction of misogyny, misanthropy, homophobia, suicide, class
    war, insults to Rita Hayworth (Welle's wife at the time, and indirect
    source of funding), courtroom drama worthy of the Three Stooges, and a
    slipping brogue, may be the most intensely deliberate self-destructive
    act in American film. 

    And many years later, Welles helped close the Film Noir era with "Touch
    of Evil", the ugliest beautifully made movie until "Eraserhead".  Of
    course, with a cast like Charlton "Where is my GUN?!" Heston, Janet
    Leigh, Marlene Dietrich, Dennis Weaver, and Mercedes McCambridge, who
    needs special effects?  Welles _gained_ _weight_ for this film.  Don't
    miss the scene where Janet Leigh is gang-raped, injected with heroin,
    and wakes up directly under the protuding eyes and tongue of a fat guy
    who was strangled to death.  "All border towns bring out the worst in a
    country, Susie."

    Fritz Lang supplied many a gloomy look at America before finally giving
    up on us.  "The Big Heat" is classic Noir, with stiffnecked cop Glenn
    Ford going dingo, Lee Marvin doing his best gorilla, and Noir Dream
    Girl Gloria Grahame getting horribly scarred. 

    A number of fine talents produced a number of Doomed Young Lovers
    Escaping from the Law films, which, as "Thelma & Louise" and "Guncrazy"
    shows, is still the most sure-fired way to achieve great movie
    romance.  And Lang got it started in 1937 with "You Only Live Once",
    starring Sylvia Sidney and a blindingly young Henry Fonda.

    Twelve years later, Nicholas Ray started his career with "They Live By
    Night", the most elegaic lovers-on-the-lam tribute ever.  The actors
    are perfection, and the film is not only stronger than its source (the
    novel "Thieves Like Us") but stronger than its remake by Robert Altman,
    usually no slouch in the feel-bad movie dept.

    As Godard once said, "You can imagine John Ford as a career military
    man, you can imagine Frank Tashlin as a brain surgeon, but you can't
    imagine Nicholas Ray doing anything but making movies."  Not until
    Martin Scorsese was there another director who combined imaginative
    storytelling, beautifully meaningful visuals, and the knack of dragging
    actors' best performances of them with rusty pliers.  "Rebel Without a
    Cause" is as good a way as any to watch Sal Mineo crack up; "On
    Dangerous Ground" is a fine way to watch Robert Ryan grind his teeth
    below the gumline; and so on.
    
    But my favorite Nick Ray movie is "In a Lonely Place", where Humphrey
    Bogart gives the performance of his life. I mean that literally: he
    seems to be dissecting the "Bogie" persona he assumed in life,
    stripping it down to bare jagged shards of self-destructive
    intelligence.  Gloria Grahame lays back, acts cool, and thereby drifts
    way too far from shore.  (Grahame was married to Ray at the time the
    film was started; like Hayworth for Welles, she helped get studio
    support for him, and so she and Ray kept their divorce mid-film a
    secret.  A short while after it was released, she married Ray's son. 
    Not surprising that the movie feels like Ray is doing open heart
    surgery on himself... "Nurse!  Bring that shaving mirror closer!")
    
    The Film Noir label is usually found sticking to the gumshoes of
    semi-psychotic flatfoots and the dirty collars of petty criminals, but
    I believe it's useful when considering horror movies, comedies, and
    Westerns as well.

    The classiest acts in Film Noir may have been put together by director
    Jacques Tourneur, associated with gorgeous heavy-cream cinematography
    and snappy morally ambiguous scripts.  "Out of the Past" has been
    called the Ultimate Robert Mitchum Movie, and what can we add other
    than that it also contains the Kirk Douglas's most believable role, in
    which he intimidates by sheer sleaziness.

    But Tourneur's other masterpiece was nominally horror:  "Cat People",
    with Simone Simon as the Ineffable Other, first seduced, then betrayed,
    and finally murdered by Normal Sensible People, with assistence from a
    psychiatrist who routinely sexually assaulted his patients.  "Cat
    People" is so depressing that it was the first movie I was able to
    watch after my quasi-divorce. 

    Fritz Lang's cop movies are great, but he went further over the top
    with "Rancho Notorious", a color-saturated musical Western tragedy
    starring Marlene Dietrich and the ever-morally-flawed Arthur Kennedy. 
    The chorus of the cowboy ballad theme song goes: "Hate! Murder! And
    revenge!"  Ki-yi-yi-yo yippy-yo yippy-yay!
    
    Ray

    Although I included a bumper crop of typos in that last reply, I forgot
    to include my current favorite example of Film Noir comedy.
    
    The '50s approach to sex -- a desparate sweaty leer somehow both
    infantile and deathlike -- makes sex farces of the period fairly
    excruciating experiences.  Feel Bad experiences, in fact.
    
    Now Billy Wilder strived for dark cynical depression in many films, but
    I don't trust his blue moods -- too facile -- until "Kiss Me, Stupid",
    the sex farce to end all (his) sex farces.  Technically speaking, it
    came out in 1964 (even includes a couple of uneasy Beatles jokes), but
    it capped its decayed era like pre-yellowed dental work.
    
    Dean Martin, the most metaphysically distressing of all pop musicians,
    is the star.  Well, we could stop right there.  But co-stars are Ray
    Walston, as horribly creepy and clinging as Anthony Quinn's underwear,
    playing the American Hubby role too gruesome for Tom Ewell!  That
    deserves another "!": !  And, as "sexpot" (good description, since
    she's treated pretty much like a spittoon), that most underrated of
    tragic actresses, Kim Novak, who in this movie is once again forced by
    an obsessive lunatic to roleplay above her station.
    
    The recent video release loses the Panavision, alas.  In a Real
    Theater, you feel _surrounded_ by rank sleaze.  All the thrills of a
    three-day delousing festival or a Woods Meeting, with none of the
    salary.  But the photography (clinical), the pacing (painful), and the
    acting (halitosis) can still be appreciated on the small screen.  I
    spread newspapers under mine first.
    
    Ray

    re .71, well, I don't know about anybody else, but I'm going to stop
    and rent it on my way home tonight!!
    
    Lorna
    

    Cool, Lorna -- hope you enjoy it! 
    
    And while you're there, might as well reserve a copy of "Shoah" for
    your next birthday -- great party flick!  I used to swear by "The
    Sorrow & the Pity" but "Shoah"'s got nicer scenery.
    
    Ray

    > This whole topic was brought on by my watching Last Exit to Brooklyn
    > yesterday.

    While maybe not the most depressing movie I have ever seen, it
    definately depressed me more than any other film.  It completely wiped
    out the remainder of the NYC romp me and some friends of mine were
    in the midst of.  When especially down, we still make comparisons
    to this movie.
    
    Somebody earlier had mentioned Brazil as a depressing film.  I found
    it to be completely the opposite.  I thought it was the exhilarating
    story of how somebody found an escape from the oppressive world in
    which he lived.
    
    -Scott

    RE: .74  by RAB::KARDON 
    
    >Somebody earlier had mentioned Brazil as a depressing film.  I found
    >it to be completely the opposite.  I thought it was the exhilarating
    >story of how somebody found an escape from the oppressive world in
    >which he lived.
    
    I suspect you did not see the director's version, but rather the studio
    version.
    

    re .75
    
    >>I suspect you did not see the director's version, but rather the studio
    >>version.
    
    Dennis
    
    Could you differentiate the two endings.  In the version I remember, the 
    escape from the oppressive world happened only in our hero's mind......
    
    Alzheimerly
    Shawn

    The "director's cut" actually _doesn't_ differ all that radically from
    the original release.  The, er, happy ending is in both.
    
    Ray

    >> Somebody earlier had mentioned Brazil as a depressing film.  I found
    >> it to be completely the opposite.  I thought it was the exhilarating
    >> story of how somebody found an escape from the oppressive world in
    >> which he lived.
    
    > I suspect you did not see the director's version, but rather the studio
    > version.
    
    Actually, I've seen both versions multiple times.  Ray is correct that
    the "happy" ending is in both.
    
    On another note, the single scene which affected me the most was the
    one in Gallopli (sp?) when the soldier about to march off on a suicidal
    charge (which was supposed to be prevented) removes his wedding ring
    and leaves it to be found by some future survivor.
    
    For some reason, that extreme acceptance of death was the saddest scene
    I've ever seen in a movie (although my mood at the time might have
    heightened the experience).
    
    -Scott

    The movie Glory was way up there in the depressing dept.  A very
    graphic and up close look at the Civil War.
    
    			Bart

    I would distinguish between movies that are tragic but deeply moving,
    and those that are mean spirited or revolting.  To me, movies like
    "Gallipoli" and "Breaker Morant", while tragic, were still enjoyable
    because they appealed to one's moral sense of right and wrong, and did
    so in a way that was moving.  I was angry *with* these movies, not *at*
    them.  So, in that sense, I wouldn't categorize every movie with an
    unhappy ending as a "feel bad" movie.
    
    -- Mike

    > I wouldn't categorize every movie with an unhappy ending 
    > as a "feel bad" movie
    
    Absolutely.  As Aristotle pointed out, a tragic movie is a feelgood movie.

    re .82, I didn't know Aristotle was a movie buff...
    
    
    Anyway, I thought of two more movies that I'd consider to be Feel Bad
    Movies:
    
    1) Sweetie - This is an Australian film about a woman who has an
                 extremely obese, mentally retarded sister called
                 Sweetie.  Taking care of her impacts the lives of
                 the entire family in a very depressing way.  Also,
                 the ending of the movie is terribly depressing and
                 Sweetie is a repulsive character.  I felt bad after
                 I watched it.
    
    2) Ironweed - Starring Meryl Streep and Jack Nicholson as two
                  homeless alcoholics during the depression of the 
                  1930's.  A very dismal view of life.
    
    
    
    Lorna
    

    I agree about Ironweed, Lorna.  I also thought Barfly was the same kind
    of depressing movie, with Mickey Rourke and Faye Dunaway.  Kind of
    makes you wonder why you pay good money to see excellent actors depress
    the hell out of you!
    
    Leslie

    Okay, it just hit me ... the worst "feel bad" movie I've ever seen
    outside of Clockwork Orange is "Soldier Blue" ... a western about the
    massacre of Custer's last stand ... little children hanging from
    bayonets, speared through spikes ... the main character vomited when he
    saw the destruction, and I almost joined him.  A horrible, horrible
    movie.
    
    Leslie

    Oh yea, I've just caught on to what 'feel bad movies' means (DUH!!!)!
    ;-)  (p.s. most 'feel bad movies' for me though usually end up bringing
    about some type of inspiration)
    
    So the movie I'd have to nominate in this category is one that left my
    crying for a good fifteen minutes afterwards....Boyz in the Hood!
    
    							Natalie 

    I'm usually a read-only noter, but after reading the last
    note, a movie came to mind.  I couldn't talk for hours after
    leaving the theatre it left such an impression on me.
    
    		The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With The Sea
    
    It starred Chris Kristofferson and a relatively unknown
    actress (at the time) who has since been in many movies.
    I don't know her name.
    
    I wonder if it affected anyone else....
    

    I *think* it was Sarah Miles who was last seen (by me anyway) in John
    Boormans 'Hope and Glory'. She was a 60's wild child but has not been
    seen that much of late.
    

    Yes, she's the one.

    > Sweetie
    
    FWIW - this high-grade feel-bad was directed by Jane 
    Campion, who later did "An Angel at My Table".

    My "favorite" feel-bad movie is "I Want to Live!" starring Susan Hayward
    as a convicted murderer emphatically maintaining her innocence through a
    series of appeals in California in the 1950's.  Filmed in black and
    white for extra feel-bad ambiance - 

    Dale

    Jane Campion is a Feel-Bad genius.  "Sweetie" was awesome.  "An Angel
    at My Table" really made you feel like you were right there spending
    decades inside a geeky psychotic writer with bad teeth -- much much
    better done than stoopid ripoffs like "Barton Fink".  Campion's shorts
    are nothing to laugh at, either.
    
    But she's not Australian.  She's New Zealand through and through.
    Judging by movies and music, the New Zealandish outlook isn't as
    frat-party as the Australian.  It's more like Finland, kind of lumpy
    and morose.
    
    Ray

    
    another vote for "Sweetie" - a character and movie that sticks with you
    (no matter how hard you try to forget it.)
    
    The person who took me to see this gets "thanked" at regular intervals.

    RE: .79  by RAB::KARDON 
    
    "Brazil"
        
    >> I suspect you did not see the director's version, but rather the studio
    >> version.
    
    >Actually, I've seen both versions multiple times.  Ray is correct that
    >the "happy" ending is in both.
    
    I've not seen it, but I recall hearing of a version that was shown on
    TV that had an ending that was different than the theatrical version.    
    
    >On another note, the single scene which affected me the most was the
    >one in Gallopli (sp?) when the soldier about to march off on a suicidal
    >charge (which was supposed to be prevented) removes his wedding ring
    >and leaves it to be found by some future survivor.
    
    Sort of like in "Glory" when Matthew Broderick sends his horse off down
    the beach.  He just knows he's never coming back.
    

    RE .92
    
    > Jane Campion
    > She's New Zealand through and through
    
    Not really - Jane Campion was born in New Zealand, but has lived,
    worked and gone to film school in Australia.  "An Angel at My Table" 
    was an OZ/NZ production; "Sweetie" was an Australian production set,
    as I remember, in Melbourne.
    
    
    > Judging by movies and music, the New Zealandish outlook isn't as
    > frat-party as the Australian.  
    
    Antipodean pundits have been playing spot-the-difference for years, 
    but really there's far more diversity within each country than between
    them.  There *is* a mushy-macho side to Australian movies and music - 
    from Peter Weir to Baz Luhrmann, Percy Grainger to Nick Cave - but I 
    think Gillian Armstrong or Yothu Yindi would resent having their outlook 
    described as "frat-party"!
    
    > New Zealand
    > It's more like Finland, kind of lumpy and morose.
    
    How very true - maybe Aki Kaurismaki should make a film about sheep
    farming?

    
    Re: "Sweetie" vs. "Barton Fink"....
    
    Since "Barton Fink" was basically a comedy, comparisons to "Sweetie" or any 
    other movie -- just because they happen to be about writers - is pretty 
    hard to justify.
    
    The intent of these movies would seem to be worlds apart from 
    the get-go. But hey, how about "Sweetie" vs. "Kafka"?
     
                 

    re.    		The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With The Sea
    
    I've never heard of it.....do you know if it's out on video yet?
    
    					Natalie

    Now I _really_ feel bad.
    
    Ray

    
    How 'bout 'Henry, Portrait of a Serial Killer' ?
    
    Sean Penn's 'The Indian Runner' was pretty depressing too ...
    
    'Touch of Evil' is just plain GREAT ! Seedy, seedy, seedy - I always
    want a shower after seeing it ! And what a soundtrack by Mancini, love
    those bongos !
    
    - acp

Hey, my note is the first to get 100 replies!  Wow!

Just so that I make this a somewhat useful reply, a while back
someone mentioned Frances.  The ultimate in victimization movies.
"What, you don't want to be a starlet, Frances?  You must be sick,
we'll send you to this nice hospital....."

X-The Man With X-Ray Eyes -----the last scene in this is brilliant,
and I read that the last line in this film was supposed to be "I can
still see!" but the studio thought it too terrifying at the time and had
it snipped.

Watching the movies that they used as the background for the Butthole Surfers
left me revolted for days.  

Lisa

	RE- Henry, POASK

		Wow I forgot about that one, that was depressing, and scary
	to think about.  Imagine being that bored.  He was a great instructor
	though.  A true love story also???

	Lisa,

		No more RadRad or what?  Are movies the thing to do down
	South.  My sister just came back from GA. and she must have gone to
	4 a week!  Although Atlanta can be pretty hip.

	/Cap'n Quad

    I caught a nice little downer this weekend - "Morning Departure," a
    1950 film about a sunken submarine. <pause while the groans subside>
    There've been heaps of sunken-sub movies [and, come to think of it, why
    not? Subs _are_ under water most of the time; what other kind of sub
    movie could one make?], and many of them seem to have tragic (or at
    least semi-tragic) endings [like, oddly enough, most real-life
    submarine sinkings], but this one had an extra touch of "what's the
    use" to it. While most of the sub-disaster flicks I've seen have
    involved wartime heroics and/or some kind of technological
    super-hackery (tip-off line: "Dammit, man, I know it's a million-to-
    one shot, but IT MIGHT WORK!", or the alternate: "I know we'll risk
    destroying the whole ship/space station/planet, but we have to
    _try_!"), this one was (a) set in peacetime, and (b) stuck to procedure
    throughout. "This is what they do when a sub's overdue. This is what we
    do to help them find us. This is what they do when they have found us.
    This is what we do next." Etc.... But, you know, sometimes you can do
    everything right and still lose.
    
    Very cheery movie. Made me feel whole heaps better about having
    cutworms in my basil. ;-)
    
    -b

    Having watched it this weekend, I would say that "The Player" rather
    fits the Feel Bad category -- a very good picture, but with a
    completely cynical, depressing (and somewhat unsatisfying) ending.  Not
    that I expected any different by the time the end credits rolled
    around.
    
    
    kim

    Speaking of Hitchcock, (back a few score notes...) I thought Marnie was
    a right depressing flick.  I can't remember the ending, but the mood of
    the movie was tres noir.  
    
    Carl

    
    re -2. Apparently "Morning Departure" had a ironic twist.  It
    concerned a Royal Navy sub going down after leaving port.  Between the
    finish of production and release a RN submarine left port and went down
    with loss of the entire crew, closely paralleling the movie.
    
    They delayed opening the movie.  
    
    They were concerned about the relative's reaction.  After much agonizing 
    and consultation they went ahead, even in the sub home ports. There was 
    no adverse reaction, perhaps because they went to pains not to
    capitalize on headline story.       
    
    That makes a *real* feel bad movie. 

    Probably deserves its own topic, but...
    
    "Man Bites Dog" - A Belgian documentary film crew follows a (rather
    genial) serial killer around as he offs several score people. 
    Something of a comedy, but the laughter gets increasingly curdled as
    the film progresses.  A shower would have been insufficent afterward -
    perhaps a good sand-blasting would do.
    
    As dark as they come...
    
    - Dave

    The Sailor Who Fell from Grace with the Sea starred Kris Kristofferson
    and Sarah Miles and was a VERY tragic movie.  But the publicity
    surrounding the movie was very hot; Miles and a very drunk
    Kristofferson did a Playboy spread of their nude love scenes in the
    movie and so infuriated Rita Coolidge, Kristofferson's wife at the
    time, that she left him.
    
    The movie IS on video because I rented it one night for my boyfriend
    who hadn't seen it.
    
    Leslie

    I think this film (TSWFFGWTS) is based on a book by the equally
    controversial Japanese writer Mishima, who in turn had a film made about
    him by francis Ford Coppola ('A life in 4 chapters').
    
    Most famous for attempting a military coup in Japan which failed so he
    committed ritual suicide in front of the troops at the military
    accademy. he was obsessed with the image of St Sabastianne,who was tied up
    and shot through with arrows.

    Rathole alert:  
    
    "Mishima" was actually directed by Paul Schrader (1985).
    Coppola may very well have produced it, but my own guess would be 
    Scorsese.  (Schrader wrote the screenplay for "Taxi Driver".)
    
    - Dave

    re: 107 -- 
    
    i saw Sailor...  i still have nightmares about the final scenes. 
    brrrr.  and it's been years!
    
    sandy

    When I saw "The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With The Sea" I sat in
    front of four late-middle-aged ladies who got hysterical during the
    scene where Miles and Kristofferson have tea in a restaurant full of
    people while certain things occur under the table.
    
    Come to think of it, it reminds me of the faked orgasm scene in that
    Rob Reiner film, only Miles wasn't faking it.  Heck, I don't even think
    she was acting.
    

    Another feel-bad flick: "Sweet Charity". Something in between
    eavesdropping on a gossipy phone conversation between high-school kids
    and watching a stray puppy trying to find somebody to follow home, but
    getting cans tied to its tail at every turn. Oh, and then there's the
    delicious fillip of having one's most squirm-inducing memories
    recalled every now and then - incidents perhaps not quite as
    humiliating as those our heroine suffers, but still too close for
    comfort. 
    
    I think the ending's supposed to be upbeat, but I just saw the kind of
    numb exhaustion that (in my experience) usually follows a "dark night
    of the soul". Reaction: "Damn - all that pain, and I didn't die. What
    do I do now?"
    
    I guess I really shouldn't watch this movie. ;-)
    
    -b

    
    
    'Night Mother.   Great movie, but so depressing.

    "The Handmaid's Tale" - whew. I thought it did a very good job
    of translating the book to screen: I felt worse watching the
    movie than reading the book.
    
    Lucy

    I rented a French flick over the
    weekend, called "Alexina", set
    in mid 1800's in France about
    a hermaphrodite, who has been reared
    as a girl but as an adult has the
    sexual organs of a man.
    
    It's subtitled (some people don't like
    subtitled movies) and the end
    {spoiler warning}
    
    
    
    is quite sad as Alexina has his
    sex "Officially" changed on his
    birth certificate from a woman to
    a man.  He has fallen in love with
    a woman, wants to marry her, and
    needs to find his way in the world
    as a man in order to marry her.
    
    BUT...because their affair started
    when they both were "female", they
    caused a huge scandal.  The ex-lover
    marries someone else and Alexina ends
    us killing himself. 
    
    A very different movie, showing the
    hatred, prejudice, and intolerance of
    people.
    the world 

Catherine Deneuve goes homicidally insane when left alone for the weekend.

A film with no redeeming qualities (unlike other downers like "Gallipoli"
and "Glory").  Technically very well done though.
								paul

    I remember seeing Repulsion when
    I was a teenager and thinking it
    was weird.  Of course, I didn't
    understand it, though.
    
    Wasn't that a Roman Polanski picture...
    of course, he's a weird guy, so I
    guess it follows.

    
    re .116
    
    "Repulsion" is a truly horrifying film. One of Roman Polanski's earlier 
    efforts (1963?) with a very young Catherine Deneuve. (I think this was
    her  first major role and she was about 23 years old.)

    The B&W photography is very effective, from the opening close-up of 
    Deneuve's eyeball to the dream/fantasy sequences shown from her 
    imagination. I was reminded of the dream sequence Salvador Dali did the
    sets for in Hitchcock's "Spellbound".

    There are a few very gruesome scenes- though being in B&W, they are not 
    necessarily graphic, but chilling in the Hitchcock mode. I'll never
    think  of a beautician in quite the same way anymore. :^)

    I agree entirely with .116 that this is a 'feel bad' film, though I
    wouldn't say it has no redeeming values other than being a well-made
    film. I saw this about six months ago and can remember just staring at
    the screen, emotionally drained, for a couple of minutes after the tape
    had finished just trying to get my mental breath back. 

    Deneuve's classically pretty innocence contrasts very effectively with
    her descent into madness. One of the points Polanski makes is that
    beauty and  innocence masks the inner being, and that the people
    Deneuve interacts with  see her surface and not the insanity within
    until it is far too late. 

    The way in which he shows some of the causes of her insanity- the
    rampant  sexism and assumptions made about her since she's young and
    pretty are also  well done. And Deneuve shows, even at this early age,
    that she is an  excellent actress and not just a pretty face. A
    powerful performance.


    Fortunately for my mental state, I had rented another early 60's B&W 
    film starring another very talented young woman in an early Oscar
    winning performance; Julie Christie in "Darling". This helped bring me
    back into a better frame of mind. "Darling" is not exactly a frothy and
    light film,  exploring other aspects of beauty/sex stereotyping in the
    early sixties,  but it is positively 'Mary Poppins' compared to
    "Repulsion". 

    The two films made a very interesting double feature if you like
    renting  films taking a contrasting look at a theme. :^)

    Cheers, 
    George

    "Repulsion" is a great movie.  But I think Polanski grabbed Deneuve
    after she'd developed a wholesome corn-fed image via froth like "The
    Umbrellas of Cherbourg", and after she'd completely blown that image by
    doing "Belle du Jour" for Luis Bunuel.  So "Repulsion" would be around
    1965 or 1966.
    
    As I remember, it's Polanski's second English film.  It's certainly
    aged much better than the tawdry misogyny of "Darling". 
    
    Ray

    re .119, oh, I rented "Darling" last year and thought it was wonderful. 
    I thought it did a good job showing how sexists things were back then.
    
    Lorna
    

    Sofies Choice - The scene where she must choose to save (at least she
    thinks she is saving) her son or daughter... and all the other scenes.
    
    Waterloo Bridge - My favorite oldie - very sad ending to a wonderful
    love story.
    
    Guns of Autumn - A documentary about hunting...but the victims are
    trapped in pens or cages.
    
    Soldier Blue - The real story about how the west was won...
    
    
    The Day After - I was a teenager on vacation in Florida when I saw
    this.  I was absolutely hysterical and couldn't watch the rest I was so 
    upset.  I called my father to come and get me in Florida, he was able
    to calm me down...'it's only a movie'...
    
    
    
    

    
    
    
    Last exit to Brooklyn.  The whole movie.....nuff said
    
    
             -=-=-R~C~W-=-=-

    The Doors
    
    and not not sure of the title, but the movie about the organized crime
    twins of Great Britain, The Crays
    
    Both films gave me headaches, and left me physically, mentally and
    spiritually nauseated.
    
    Tricia
    
    If you're interested, I'll tell you how I *really* feel  :-)

    re: .last
    
    The film was indeed, "The Krays". 
    
    I thought it was a great movie.
    
    
    Cheers,
    
    kim

    I'll add both The Piano and A Dangerous Woman to this list.
    
    While I thought both movies were well-done and both held my attention,
    interesting plot and good acting, etc, both left me with an overall
    feeling of distaste.  What pathetically, miserable situations these
    women wound-up in!!  So depressing.  Both definitely fall into the
    I'm-glad-I'm-not-them category.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    Ghosts of the civil dead       Australian prison movie starring Nick
                                                                    Cave
    
    Last house on the left         Wes Craven's first movie
    
    I spit on your grave           Don't mention Thelma & Louise
    
    Henry - POASK                  Not a single cop in the whole movie
    
    Naked
    
    Eraserhead
    
    Freaks                         Tod Browning
    
    Drugstore Cowboy
    
   ... and John Water's early movies
    
    Henri
    

    re .126, definitely agree with Drugstore Cowboy.  That depressed me.
    
    Lorna
    

    
    	This is still the only movie that I "try" not to watch again.
    
    	Good story, but depressing as I can find.
    
    		-Kevin

    
    		A "Feel Bad Story" but one that I truly enjoy is with
    		probably one of my favorite actresses, Kathleen Turner.
    
    			Crimes of Passion
    

    Speaking of feel bad and Kathleen Turner, the War of the Roses was a
    rather depressing, darkly funny movie.  I liked it.  
    
    
    kim

    
    
    
    
    Now, I'm the first to rationalise away bad vibes in films (e.g. only a
    movie, it's just tomato sauce, the director's gonna yell 'CUT!!' at any
    second), BUT.  When I saw Mike Leigh's film 'Naked', all of that went out
    the window.  I've never been so spiritually scarred by a cinematic    
    experience in my life.  It was the most misanthropological thing that
    has ever happened to me.  A veritible barrage of every conceiveable
    human frailty, cruelty, and weakness.  I left feeling very grim about
    the human race and its future.  Perhaps the mark of a good film can
    be determined in part by how well it affects the audience.  Well thanks
    a bunch, Mike.  I don't know how I would have coped without it.  I hope
    you spend my money wisely.  I don't think I could be *paid* enough 
    to sit through that again.  A well made movie, but gee...  
    I cringe when I think that I had intended to see "Dave" but found that 
    the run had finished at the theatre.  Wish I'd read a few reviews
    before taking the plunge...
    
    
    re:  .95 
    
    Yep, it's true that us New Zealanders can be lumpy and morose, but I'm
    glad that we don't take these traits to unrealistic extremes like - say -
    the English do.
    Besides, Australians drink more beer than the rest of the world
    combined so it's no small wonder that they behave like the cast of 
    'Animal House.'
    
    
    
                     

    I agree with Ghosts of the Civil Dead (back a few replies).
    
    This one actually showed on TV here in the UK, uncut.
    
    Back in the 60's I saw a film in London which the British Board of Film
    Censors refused to pass for UK wide exhibition, called Mondo Cane
    (pronounced Carnay).
    
    It was a documentary type film and as I recall was a catalogue of
    unpleasant things that go on around the world.
    
    For example, it showed snakes being purchased in a market in Hong Kong
    and being skinned.
    
    It showed a bull tethered to a post and a Ghurka chopping off the
    bull's head with one swipe of a sword.
    
    I cannot recall what other unpleasantries were shown... it was 30 years
    ago that I saw it, but I have never heard of it since.
    
    andy  

    
    	"Lost Angels" was pretty depressing, for the most part.
    
    	The high point for me was watching Amy Locane get nailed against
    	the wall.
    
    	8^)
    
    							GTI
    

>    Back in the 60's I saw a film in London which the British Board of Film
>    Censors refused to pass for UK wide exhibition, called Mondo Cane
>    (pronounced Carnay).
    
>    It was a documentary type film and as I recall was a catalogue of
>    unpleasant things that go on around the world.
    
>    I cannot recall what other unpleasantries were shown... it was 30 years
>    ago that I saw it, but I have never heard of it since.
    
	Both this, and the sequel Mondo Cane II, are/were available for
	rental at our local store. I saw the first but not the second
	(as yet) and found it mainly distasteful, but not as shocking
	as the covers made them out to be.

    
    
    Is 'Lost Angels' out on video in the UK?  
    
    Looooooooovvvvvved the soundtrack.
    
     

    
    The ultimate feel bad film has got to be "Der todes King" this film is
    serious. Directed by the same guy that directed the Nekromantik films
    so you can imagine the type of atmosphere except darker, a must if
    your'e in to those type of films.
    
    Another film that springs to mind is the 'Death Trip' films - a
    compilation of shorts with apperances from Lydia Lunch, Henry Rollins
    (with long hair) and more and an amazing soundtrack eg. Sonic Youth,
    Butthole Surfers, Foetus