[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference nyoss1::market_investing

Title:Market Investing
Moderator:2155::michaud
Created:Thu Jan 23 1992
Last Modified:Thu Jun 05 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1060
Total number of notes:10477

310.0. "Automatic payments from bank accounts" by KELVIN::MCKINLEY () Wed Nov 18 1992 13:16

    I have a question about automatic payments from a bank account.  I had
    an auto-pay set up for a monthly mortgage payment from my Baybank
    (Mass/New England area bank) account to another bank (Bank X). This
    method has worked fine for 5 years.

    I recently sold the property and wanted to stop the payments.  Since my
    closing date was near to the time that the next payment was to come out
    of my account, I thought that it would be a good idea to make sure that
    an extra payment was not accidentally taken from my account by Bank X
    before they had processed all the transfer papers to the new owner (who
    was assuming my loan).

    I went to Baybank assuming that I could tell them "don't pay anything
    by direct electronic withdrawal to Bank X anymore".  Wrong!  I could
    put in a stop payment for one time for an exact amount to a specific
    withdrawer.  If that exact amount wasn't correct, the withdrawal would
    be paid.  Once a stop payment has been used once, you have to renew it
    again.  The person at the bank told me that there was no charge for
    this, but I got a $15 charge on my statement (but that's another beef).

    I was informed that once you give authority for an automatic
    withdrawal to a party, that party can take ANY amount of money at ANY
    time FOREVER from your account.  If they take the wrong amount, or do
    if after they were supposed to stop, they are committing a crime, but
    the money will still be paid.  You may not catch the error until a
    month later, in which time you could bounce checks, overdraw, etc.
    Baybanks helpful response was that if you suspect that an error may
    occur, you should close your account and open a new one.

    My question is; do all banks handle auto withdrawals this way?  Is there
    never any way to stop this?  It would seem like a simple flag to put in
    the software to not pay to a certain requester.

    Watch out if you have automatic payments!

    ---Phil
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
310.1CADSYS::FLEECE::RITCHIEElaine Kokernak RitchieWed Nov 18 1992 14:224
I've seen complaints in another notesfile (CONSUMER?) about MetPay.  This
actually sounds like something that should be publicized more to the public.

Elaine
310.2It's worse than you thinkERLANG::KAUFMANCharlie KaufmanThu Nov 19 1992 00:2430
>    Baybanks helpful response was that if you suspect that an error may
>    occur, you should close your account and open a new one.

Well, even that might not work.  I once had a problem where a health club
continued to deduct payments from my account for 5 months after they should
have stopped.  They were extremely apologetic and promptly refunded my money
(they claimed their bank was making the error and there was nothing they could
do about it; they offered to pay any service charges that I incurred as a
result, but there weren't any), but it went on month after month.

Eventually, I decided to be clever.  I closed the account.  I mentioned to the
bank that there had been this erroneous deduction for many months and I
couldn't rule out the possibility of another one.  The teller earnestly noted
it, but I could tell he wasn't planning to do anything with the information.

Two weeks later, sure enough the withdrawal came through.  The bank
*reactivated my account* by transferring in funds from a line of credit that I
had also cancelled.  They later explained that when you close an account, it
isn't really closed until it has had a zero balance and no activity for 30
days.

It eventually got straightened out, with the bank and the health club splitting 
the tab, but what a pain!

This was at People's Savings Bank.  I've gotten the impression that banks have
quite similar procedures to one another, either because they all get software
from the same place or because their procedures are elaborately regulated.  It
seems unconscionable that there is no way to revoke an authorization for
automatic withdrawal, but I was also told that it was only possible to stop
payment for a limited period and not to cancel it.
310.3SUBURB::THOMASHThe Devon DumplingTue Dec 08 1992 13:0729
	We have two ways of paying automatically


	Standing order, where I authorise the bank to deduct and send the 
	amount I say, and when I  say, and I can change/stop it at any time.

	Direct debit, where I authorise x to deduct an amount at a certain time,
	and X tell the bank each month, how much and when, it has a rider that
	the amount can change. 

	With Direct Debits, I never used to be able to change/stop, only X 
	could.
	However we have had additional legislation enacted, which says that
	if I tell the bank to stop paying, they must.

	Direct Debits are cheaper for both the bank and X.

	With Direct debits, it means you don't have to keep writing to the bank
	each time mortgage rates increase, to change the amount, X just ask
	for the new amount.
	
	Many X's refuse to be paid by standing order, and insist on Direct 
	Debit.

	It sounds like you're running the Direct Debit scheme, without the
	ability to cancel.

	Heather
310.4more on auto withdrawalsLEDS::SIMARDThere's no traffic jam on the extra mile!Thu Feb 11 1993 11:1711
    Maybe .0's $15.00 charge is a "bounce check charge".  We had this auto
    withdrawal at a bank and emptied the account so it couldn't be paid due
    to time constraints and such, much like .01.  We were charged for a 
    bounced check.
    
    These auto withdrawels are dangerous.  Are you aware that if the $
    isn't in the account on the day a loan (in this case) is due, then you
    are considered in default?  However, if you had been paying this same
    loan via the usual methods, check in mail etc., then you would have
    your grace period to make the payment and not be in default.
    
310.5Charge refunded...KELVIN::MCKINLEYThu Feb 11 1993 15:2810
>    Maybe .0's $15.00 charge is a "bounce check charge".  We had this auto

    Nope, it was a "stop payment" charge.  I pointed out that they weren't
    supposed to charge for that when you are putting in a permanent stop.  They
    waffled for a while, but finally looked up the correct rule and agreed with
    me and refunded the charge.

    There have been no unauthorized auto-withdrawals since I cancelled them.

    ---Phil