Conference noted::equitation

>    to reining. He is an appaloosa and from what I've heard from other
    people they have a tendency to be boneheads (stubborn).  He used
 
    this is bull.. i think palominos (well i used to ) were stubborn, i
    think buckskins are the same way :*}
        
    >He also has a reputation for putting people in the emergency room!!
    me included.  
    
    sounds like a horse i used to ride in colorado, I rode him for 2 months
    and thought i could trust him and ride him bareback after a long work
    out one day.... He took off ( i dont remeber how, so long ago) 
    started bucking (back up i was riging rodeo ) so i stayed on a 6
    seconds :*) ... anyways he was bucking along a barbwire, so finally i 
    bailed out...
    
>    does okay with balance, I mean he does respond to my change in weight
    and leg commands, but at a canter or gallop, he gets so carried
    away he just does what he wants to, which is not usually what I want.
     
    see below... (this is a good start i think tho')
    
>     Also at a canter (or gallop ),He likes to throw his head down and buck.  
	if i hold the reins too tight he starts shaking
    his head because he has a sensitive mouth.  
 
    heres what i would do, is this...... try long trotting, and get ahold
    of his face and work circles,  i think whats happening is, that you are
    cantering and he's just either playing or just getting into cantering
    and hes just getting away with things. I would work him up to a canter
    and jsut canter him, not when he wants to stop but when you want to
    stop and you *really think its your idea (not his) he will also
    be in a frame of mind of really listening to you, becasue he going to 
    be tired and GAWD forbid he miss that word "WHOA" they wont believe me.
    he might be alot better on his stops.. just keep him flat,relaxed and
    make him work, not you :*)
       
    I need help as to what to do with him, on the ground he is great,
       suggestions, riding instructors who specialize in reining in the
    Chelmsford/Westford area.  
    
    I dont know. there is someone in the georgetwon area, go see tom mc
    dowell , he the best one i think, tell him you spoke to me..
    I can (might) be able to help you some weekend tho)
    
>    I ride him with a Tom Thumb bit, which after trying many others
    seems to be the best...Although I do have to tie his mouth shut
    cause his grabs the side of the bit in his teeth and holds it so
    there is absolutely no control.  
    
    I wouldnt have him on a ton thumb for nothing* i hate those bits (jmo)
    anyway i would try and med port graze bit (western curb)....
    
    >Maybe we just have a personality conflict.
    
    No , he has the problem :*}
    
    
    		wendy o'

    My mare used to be a brat.....can't say I blame her, she is 9 now,
    and untill 10 weeks ago, no one ever really did anything with her.
    She had no balance, and would take off when she wanted.
    
    My instructor (Westboro, about 1 hr. from Chelmsford) asked me to 
    lunge her 3-4 times a week before riding, untill she settled down.
    This way my mare gets tired, and not me.  It did wonders for her 
    attitude and balance.  We've learned a lot together.
    
    My instructor also wanted me to ride in a egg-butt snaffle, instead of
    a Tom thumb.  At the time I thought she was crazy, but I'll tell you, 
    I can ride her in a small group and she listens to me.  On some of our
    bigger and crazier weekend rides, I may switch back....I really haven't 
    decided yet.
    
    We up to 5-6 days a week now, a combo of ring work and trail riding.
    I am really happy w/ the results......and no one can believe it's the
    same horse.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Michele

    Wendy, why don't you like a Tom Thumb?  That's what I'm using on Spider
    with no problems so far.  But I've only been riding him for 3 weeks
    with it since he came home from Ken's, so if it's not a good bit,
    please let me know.
    
    thanks,
    Kathy

    I've taken a few lessons this past winter with Tom McDowell, and
    was toying with the idea of taking Willie up there for a couple
    of weeks.  You're right, he does get away with murder with me. 
    He's very big a strong.  I have western curve bits which I will
    try again..We used to use one and he was constantly throwing his
    head, that's why we tried a milder bit!!!
    
    He actually has bolted on me twice this spring, but I was able to
    get him under control.  Never ever would I ride this guy bareback!!
    
    Thanks for the suggestions, I guess I'll have to make an effort
    to ride more...that should help...Maybe I'll truck him up to Tom
    for a couple of workouts.

    
    
    	When you pull the reins, he shakes his head - when was the
    	last time time his teeth were done? Pulling the bit pulls the
    	cheeks tighter into the teeth, if there are points, this will
    	hurt and make him shake his head...
    
    	Sherry
    

    I have his teethe filed yearly (when needed) and he was just checked
    3 weeks ago.  I've even had his wolf teeth removed cause we thought
    that might be the problem!!!
    
    I wish it were that easy...
    
    Thanks for the reply, keep em coming
    
    Caryl

    I'd also like to mention, he is tooo bad on tail rides. and of course
    if we're following other horses it's no problem....(I even lunge
    him before long rides!!) , but one on one he pays not attention.
    
    Thank you everybody for the responses, I'm going to really try to
    shape him up...
    
    Caryl

    My fingers are not working today....he's not too bad on trail rides
    
    but one on one he pays no attentionto me!!
    
    Caryl

    Proctor Hill farm on Rt 119 in Littleton may do some
    Western training.  They are about 1/2 mi West from 495.

    I have seen a number of people ride Western as I struggle
    with balance seat.

    The owner told me her daughter trains English first,
    and then Western.  There is a English/Western clinic
    this weekend (listed in show note).

    Sounds like you should go for a visit.

    Owner is Pat Lingham.   486-0788

    And, it's alot closer than Westboro !

    Thanks, I'll look in the show notes.  That sounds like the clinic
    I'm going to this weekend.  As you can see I'm willing to try anything
    that will help!
    
    I'm definitely going to take some lessons on him, but the closer
    the better.  
    
    Caryl

    If you are looking for a trainer, you might want to try Allison Bentley 
    at Scotia Farm in Dunstable, Mass.  Not only does she train horses, she 
    also teaches both western and english riding.  I have been taking
    lessons from her for quite a while and am very satisfied.  
    
    Scotia Farm  (508) 649-9203
    
    Good luck,
    Paulette 

    re:.4 and bits
    
    Jesse's mouth is real sensitive.  I have had the best results so far
    w/ the eggbutt.  I still can't believe how she listens to me.  If
    I put a Western curb bit in her mouth she literally freaks out.  I went
    to the tom thumb because thats what she was always ridden in, and it
    has to have the curved shanks, not the short ones or she tosses her
    head like crazy.    

    There is someone I know in New Hampshire who is excellent as far as the
    reining of a horse goes...she does patterns/reining at Class A shows.
    If you are interested in going that far...its near Deerfield, N.H., let
    me know and I will get the number for you.
    
    Good luck
    
    Kathie
    

    
    
    re>?) mostly
    
    
    I would take him up to tommys... and leave him for a month ...
    and then you will have no problem afterward!
    
    re. allison, she is good but doesnt compete western or reinging
    i would go with a well known trainer that is in reainging that is
    proven.
    
    re. tom thumb fans.... I dunno i just never had any use for them, they
    pinch (supposedly) but anyways if you need a snaffle bit (moutn piece)
    then go with a "d" ring or an egg butt ... or just get and shanked "d
    ring" .. i would rather go to a staight bar at that point tho'
    
    alot of people used to like the great big ring snaffle for pleasure
    horses... i tried on and one trainer said "see" shes got it now" i
    never really noticed the difference really. I would try a gag if he
    gettin his head down , but at this point i would say didnt discourage
    this. just keep his face picked up and keep my on the bit but not
    heavy.
    
    as far as "leaving town" take him to tommie, i wouldnt even waste my
    time actually".. what he can do in two months would have taken me 6.
    maybe thats why he trains :*}
    
    anyways i think i should get outta here (garabage caharcters ARGH!)
    
    I would also be carefule of lunging, to get the edage off fine, but
    lunging also lets them get where they want to be, naturally they will
    tip the shoulder in and tilt , you want to make sure they dont get on
    the habit of that because you want them straight (up and down) and to
    keep the shoulder up in the turns, not the shoulder down.... this keeps
    them in balance and collected.. (hope this makes sense)
    
    
    wendy o'
    
    

My only concern with 'sending a horse for 30 days' is to be sure that the 
training includes THE RIDER. After 30 days the horse may be great for the 
trainier, but is he great for the rider?  Will he stay great for the rider?

If you think *at all* that the horse 'has your number', then make sure that 
training yourself is part of the solution. (Training yourself along with the
horse is worthwhile anyhow - it helps you learn how to deal with other problems
when they arise, and before they become *real* problems)

    re. right. you are right.. however tommoe can go put some time on him
    so he wont do that, then put the rider on and help the rider...
    
    My mare had my number, i wasnt getting anyway...
    (on certain things like .0 was talking about) I sent her to tommie, she
    didnt it on him, but found out she couldnt and learned how to do other
    things that i couldnt teach her (like sliding stops) and then I was
    riding her and he helped after that..
    
    		wendy o'
    
    

    Thanks to everyone for all the advice.  I have had my gelding to
    45 days of training and you're right, Wendy, the horse did great
    but he was not good at instructing people.  I have taken lessons
    from Tomm McDowell...He's great at both.
    
    You were also right about suggesting get rid of the Tom Thumb. 
    I went over to Greyledge for the clinic, and brought him back that
    evening for the problem horse clinic.  The first thing Jim Farrell
    did was say "We're going to get rid of that bit" and he put another
    one on him.  I don't know the name but WOW, did he listen to me
    with that in his mouth.  Jim also suggested that I not lunge him
    before riding.  That if I keep working him at least every other
    day he should be fine.  
    
    The next test is when I pick up the bit and new reins(much heavier
    than the ones I use) is to take him out trail riding and see if
    he listens to me.  
    
    I've got my confidence back and am looking forward to riding again!!
    
    Thanks again...
    
    Caryl

    Great, well i'm glad that the pro's agree with me :*}
    
    Greyledge?? which clininc was that? i went to the prospect farms
    one and stayed 15 min and got bored... I was going to go sunday 
    but it was my mares birthday ;')
    
    so tell us about the clinic and what was said etc... (whys/what nots)
    		
    
    		wendy o'
    

    re:.17
    
    I'm interested in the type of bit used and why he didn't want you to
    lunge your horse.  
    
    M

    I think the name of the place was Greyledge, it's in Littleton right
    on 119, maybe 1/2 mile afer Rte 495 on the left.  White house sits
    on the road.
    
    I am picking up my new bit on Tuesday and hopefully the receipt
    will give me the correct name for the bit.  
    
    He thought that lunging everytime I ride has bored him.  
    
    My friends daughter was there for a few of the classes and that
    mainly was why I was there.  I was telling someone about my Bonehead
    and she suggested the "Problem Horse Class". 
    
    There was a young woman there who had bought a horse and had about
    had it with him..  Was actually thinking of sending it off to the
    meat market...Horse was wild and dangerous.  She sent him off to
    Jim and he is now very well behaved!!  Some people would call it
    cruel that he had a sore chin, but having been injured by a horse,
    if they can't be controlled they aren't worth having.
    
    Wendy, I can't tell you much about what they had to say in Western
    Equitation or Pleasure...cause I don't show.  It was most a schmoozing
    day for me!!! and I just love looking at horses.  But I'm so glad I 
    went.  Mostly what he toldme about mine, was I needed to get his 
    attention and I was the person in control..not him.
    
    AND...I have to work him more!!!
    
    Caryl  

The clinic Caryl went to was the Proctor Hill Farm clinic.  Greyledge Farm is 
the Farrel's place in Connecticut.

    re. last
    
    thanks i thought i was missin somethin'
    ;')
    
    BTw (whoever) was told /or doesnt want to use a tom thumb , instead i
    would like to recommend at certain kind of bit.
    its called a hinged snaffle.
    
    really any horse with a fussy head would benifit with this bit, 
    its still gives you the snaffle, and just as much leverage as a long
    shanked snaffle......
    
    its anyone wants the info of the princple of the bit i can expalin
    
    			wendy o'

Wendy,

The subject of bits is one that would probably be of interest to many of us.  Do
you think you could start a new note on this subject?  The first bit discussed
could be the one you referred to in your reply.  Then, maybe we could continue
the discussion around snaffles, the tom thumb, etc.  I know I would find it
interesting.  And by starting a new note, we would keep the information available.

Ed..

    I agree with Ed, I've been through so many bits!!!!  It would be
    interesting.
    
    Caryl

    Back to the reining question:  If you're trying to teach neck reining 
    to a horse experienced only in direct reining, an easy method that
    we've found effective is using *crossed* draw reins. 
    
    If you look at the action that your reins take on the bit as you
    neck rein, you may notice that, for example, if you place the left
    rein against the left side of the neck and apply any pressure, the 
    rein is also pulling on the left side of the bit.  Which, according
    to the horse's direct-rein training, means move to the left.  That 
    can be very confusing if you're trying to make the horse go right, 
    regardless of what other aid you use.  And vice versa on the
    direction (of course!).
    
    Try a set of draw reins, crossed under the neck so that when the horse
    feels the rein against the left side of his neck, he also feels the
    direct pull of the bit to the right.  It's amazing what a difference
    it makes.  You'll have a green horse neck reining almost immediately.
    (At least, it worked like a charm on our two green phillies!)
    
    -steve
          
    

    will  i confuse him if i try crossed draw reins with the new bit...i
    have been using the direct approach.  we were riding him english
    for quite some time (which I like, but i don't have confidence in
    him or me in an english saddle) i prefer something to hold onto
    when he throws a fit. 
    
    Should i wait until we ride with the bit for awhile and then try
    the crossed rein approach.
    
    Has anyone else ever tried this?
    
    or should i be happy with a horse that is rideable and forget the
    reining!!!!
    
    Can't wait to get out there tomorrow with my new bit and ride, if
    you see a for sale note for an appoloosa gelding, you'll know it
    didn't work...
    
    caryl

>    will  i confuse him if i try crossed draw reins with the new bit...i
 	YES YOU CERTAINLY WILL!!!
    
where is this horse???
        
    >    the crossed rein approach.
    
    i used to use this (when i was like around 17-18ish on my two year old,
    she got wicked confused, i heard its supposed to work,. however today 
    horses use themselves differently . If you use the crossreins method
    what will happen is this, his shoulder will fall in and his face will
    go opposite where the direction of where you want him to go..
    
    >Has anyone else ever tried this?
    ;*}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
    
    >or should i be happy with a horse that is rideable and forget the
    reining!!!!
    
    NAW!! go for it, i'll help ya out if you want (if your not too far)
    I'm always looking to work with different horses...
    
    >Can't wait to get out there tomorrow with my new bit and ride, if
    you see a for sale note for an appoloosa gelding, you'll know it
    didn't work...
    
    I have to ask what bit are you going to try, i have one or two you
    might want to try, if you/he likes them well you can give me a couple
    dollars for it.
    
    anyways i would also think about using a hinged snaffle if you can find
    one, if you need to know how it works let me know, i can explain..
    
    
    
    		wendy o'

    Wendy,
    
    I'm in Chelmsford on the Westford line...if you're familiar with
    the area I'm right across the woods from the Westford 4-H grounds.
    
    I'd love some help....Jim Farrell (Greyledge) sold me a bit, it is
    a hinged bit, but I don't know if it could be called a snaffle.
     I know some of the problems we're having is my lack of experience,
    but he can be obnoxious also.
    
    This is the one Jim put on him when he gave me instructions at the
    clinic this past weekend.   I also have a trailer to transport him.
    
    Where are you????
    
    Caryl

    I have a reining bit....but it's not a snaffle type...
    It's a Trammel copper mouth straight bar style that
    has moving side pieces. (hard to explain, but my horse
    came from a reining ranch in TX, and this is what the
    trainer used...it's a very mild bit)
         
    
    Lynne
    
    

    re.-2
    
    Good i was going to tel lyou to get that one if you were to 
    buy another, and bit you might want to use is a copper sweetwater 
    mouth piece..
    
    I dont know if everyone knows this or not, but the theory behind the
    hinged snaffle if this. Take a shanked snaffle or one that .-1
    recommened. (i'm not picking on you just useing this as an example)
    take the bit and take ahold of the bit (overhand) and lightly hold it
    the way it would be in the horses mouth. Now shake your hand sideways,
    up and down . Notice how the bit in the mouthpiece (both sides) and
    notice how the sides move as well. notice how much play there is in the 
    bit. This will sometimes make a horse fussy with his head and when you 
    go to pick up on him he doesnt like it. with the hinged bit it 
    breaks *only toward the back. the where the snaffle can bend to the
    front, back ,updward, etc... 
    there is little or not movement on the hinged bit, thats why alot
    people use it. 
    
    	wendy o'
    
    
    

    Re 30 - Wendy o'
            
    Don't want to confuse you...I'm not the same person as
    the original noter....
    
    But it is a nice bit...
    
    Lynne
    

    eeeeeerrrrrrrrrrr now ummmmm i think i'm confused ;*)
    
    
    		wendy o'
    
    
    

    What, U confused, wendy o' ???
    
    never!

    Just wanted to let you all know that I am riding "Bonehead" on his
    new bit.....He doesn't like it, but I do.  
    
    He's not trying to out muscle me and so far we have had no wrestling
    matches.  I'm giving him a couple of weeks to get used to it and
    then I'll try working on the steering.  It looks like i might stay
    with direct rein, as long as we're both happy.
    
    Caryl

    re.last
    
    as far as direct reining , i would (if it were me anyway)
    i would direct rein him , but when you do that, then take ahold of him
    and pick up his face and use both reins and use alot of leg and 
    slowly get off so much leg pressure. I would make sure you use alot of
    leg aids and watch how he responds , if he goes good for three days
    say and then he doesnt sterring off you legs, 9 times out of ten
    he being a "bonehead" & a good wack on the shoulder with the reins will
    wake him up.
    
    	wendy o'
    
    

    re:  direct reining....
    
    he does well, most times with leg commands....but he has to be really
    tired.  Yesterday, was a disaster.  Even with his new bit he was
    terrible.  If I wouldn't let him move forward (which he now listens
    because of the bit) he would rear.  So he was rearing, bucking,
    throwing his head, opening his mouth to escape the bit, bolted on
    me once, prancing sideways, arching his neck.  
    
    Is it time to trade him in for a new model.  We've invested 6 years
    and lots of $ in training.  He's not stupid, but he does know how
    to upset me.  I'm not so sure another 4 weeks with Tom McDowell,
    will really help, and I'm beginning to think it's me as well as
    the horse.    
    
    Part of me really hates to give him up, cause on the ground he's
    such a sweetheart, but the other part say's "quit while you're
    ahead"...
    
    Caryl (one very frustrated owner)

    Although his problems are showing up in his mouth, that may not be the
    root problem.  It sounds like he may have more energy than he
    needs...more than he, or you, can handle.  How is his weight?  What
    grain are you feeding him (how much, which brands, protein levels, 
    etc.)?  Have you tried adjusting his diet?
    
    Unfortunately, although we like to see our horses round and "show fat,"
    that is not really the best condition for them to be in, either for
    their health or, in the case of a high energy horse, theirs.  Its
    possible that if you cool his diet down, you may not need to lunge him
    before riding and he may be able to stay civilized on 3-4 rides/week.

    I think I would try the training and give it another shot.  The problem
    with me is that I have a hard time giving them up because I can't
    always keep track of them.
    One thing I would do is work very closly with the trainer...riding at
    least two to three times a week.
    
    Good luck
    
    Kathie
    

    re:  what is his diet like..
    
    I wouldn't say he was fat, but he is not slim either.  He is a stock
    quarter horse type appoloosa.  Wide chest, large hind quarters.
    
    I feed him 1 scoop of choice pellets in the a.m. and 1 1/2 scoops
    in the evening with 1 flake of hay at each.  He get no sweet feed
    at all.  
    
    re:  hard time giving them up because I can't keep track
    
    I know what you mean, I would hate to see someone get him and abuse
    him, and if you sell him, that's the chance you take.  Like I said
    he has a puppy dog personality, until you're riding him.
    
    caryl

    I'm not familiar with that brand of pellets, but if its not low
    protein, you may want to consider switching to a low protein (below 
    12%) pellet. Try seeing how much you can decrease the pellets and 
    have him maintain his weight on "the lean side of right."  This should
    lower his energy levels and make him a little easier to train without
    risking warfare.
    
    Along with this, I would find a trainer to work with
    regularly...perhaps have the trainer ride him first to re-establish
    some obedience and then have the trainer working with you.
    
    Mary

    How much turn out does he get?  Riding a horse fresh from 
    standing in a stall all day can mean a lousy ride for both
    concerned (I know....my QH is a pussycat to ride after he's
    been turned out all day.  But, leave him in and.....)
    
    Also, be careful decreasing qty/protein levels of food.  
    You need to meet his nutritional needs and lowering protein
    can lead to health problems.....consult your vet for a diet
    that will lower energy but maintain overall health.
    
    L-

    >how much turnout does he get
    
    He is out day and night...and he does run around, buck and kick..
    I will go back to lunging him before riding!!
    
    Caryl

    Talk to you vet, but I don't expect you'll find a problem of too
    little protein when feeding commercial feeds.  The quality companies 
    (Blue Seal, Purina, etc.) do a lot of research on nutrition and their 
    products have been around for a long time.  I'd be more concerned with 
    higher protein feeds of 14% or more that some professionals use.  A
    natural diet is grass...the grain is only needed to compensate for the
    work they do.  And their protein requirements are also lower once they
    are mature and not growing any more.
    
    If your horse is running around bucking for large amounts of time, it 
    sounds like he has way more energy than he knows what to do with.  I'd
    suggest again checking the protein content of your grain and consider
    changing it if its over 12-13%.
    
    One person at my barn was having problems with her quarter horse having
    too much energy.  She switched from a 14% pellet to a 10% and saw
    enough personality changes to make him controllable for her.  Also, this
    16+ hand horse is fat on less than 1 1/2 quarts of pellets/day, although 
    he does get much more hay than your horse (4+ flakes).  However, he also 
    doesn't get turned out right now so he doesn't get grass.  I think he is
    ridden 4 times/week.
    
    Mary
    

    Keep in mind that it's carbohydrates that deliver energy -- not
    protein.  Most lower protein feeds are also lower in calories.
    And it's very true that horses' physiologies are such that the response
    to extra calories is extra energy.  (Unlike humans, who become couch
    potatoes!)  
    
    By the way, rearing is not a surprising response to a stronger bit. 
    Think about it -- there's still all that energy that wants to go
    somewhere, and if it can't go forward because of the bit, it goes
    upward....
    
    -ellie

    I have noticed a significant difference in energy levels when feeding
    sweet feed vs pellets.  The sweet feed makes him like a hyperactive
    child eating candy.  He's much calmer and more sensible on pellets.
    
    Kathy

    I have to agree w/ .43 (and her other replys).  I had my mare on
    trotter (14%), plus good hay, plus pasture...and she was a nut case....not
    mean or anything, just a bundle of energy.
    
    
    I now feed her a minimum of 2lbs strider (12%).  This also has the
    most fiber and least energy.  It's a good maintainance feed.  WHen
    in training, she needs more, so I add 1lb of strider, 1lb of alafalfa,
    and 1lb of Demand.  Demand is a new grain put out by Blue seal, it's
    for high performance horses, or horses who need help putting on weight.
    It has a high level of protien and energy, but little fiber (they are
    related somehow).   If I am not training her, I can't feed her this
    because it makes her crazy.
    
    Try the strider.  A small amount will keep weight on your horse.  Add 
    good hay and your usual supplements.  Experiment w/ the portions
    till you find the correct amount for your horse.
    
    I would also suggest going back to lunging your horse.  My trainer
    told me that lunging is a great way to tire out the horse w/out tiring
    yourself out.  And if she's all fired up while lunging.....she's not
    going to get bored.....it's when she settles in and goes along well,
    that if over done will make her bored.  And when she settles in, she's
    all set to work.  
    
    I'm sure you're frustrated and want to ship your horse, if it's mean,
    and no fun anymore......then do it......riding is for fun.:^)
    
    Good luck....Michele

    I ran into that feeding straight sweet feed, as well. I changed mine
    to a combination of half Charger (14% sweet feed) and half Strider
    (10% pellets). I find that she's finicky and doesnt eat well without
    the high molasses content of the Charger, but the combination does
    seem to be working well. Her weight is excellent, and she is
    manageable. I think a lot of the horse's energy level is in their
    personality, though. No matter what I feed, no matter how much turn
    out she has, my mare has always been full of herself. Not a hassle
    like your horse seems to be, but certainly an energetic little thing.
    If adjusting his feed (and consulting your vet about the best way
    to do this) doesn't seem to help, and he is constantly turned out,
    well, perhaps the horse is just not a good match for you. Professional
    training is great, but myself, if I still couldn't cope on my own
    after having a trainer for a time....well, I don't think I'd enjoy a
    horse I had to keep sending out for training to keep him manageable.
    

    Here's the plan.....and thanks for everybody's suggestions...
    
    I did the equine dentist, Wayne Robinson (I recommend him highly).
    I'm doing the new bit.  He is chunky, so I will try cutting down
    on his feed, and put him on vitamins and I will definite lunge him
    for 20-30 minutes before riding.  If this doesn't make him more
    cooperative...then, my husband can either start riding again or
    we'll find him a new home (the horse that is- not my husband!!)
    
    I'll keep y'all posted as to our progress.  It can't get worse.
     I'm also looking for a second horse  for when my daughter or husband
    wants to ride...then I won't have to ride alone.  So if anyone knows
    of a reasonably priced (which translates to farily cheap) horse,
    let me know.  I'm not looking for anything particular, just a good
    trail horse, and now's the time with the prices down.  Would like
    one between 8 and 10, though as I plan on riding for quite a few
    more years.  It also should be at least 15 h, although 14.2 with
    a chunky build is fine.  I like "big" horses, wide chests, bit rears!!!
    
    
    Hopefully, by putting everybodies tips together, we can make our
    bonehead a little more tolerable!!
    
    Caryl

    I was wondering if you have had any progress with your horse with the
    various changes that you have tried?  
    
    There is a lovely woman at my barn who has a similar dilemma with her
    horse and I was wondering if you had any progress yet.  She had sent
    her mare out for 90 days of professional training last year, changed
    her feed and become more assertive with her with a little progress (not
    much) and she would like to keep her.
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen

    re. last
    say hi to briam morris for me :*}
    
    I dont know if Carlyn is still here or not, she said the horse was
    doing better, and was calming down some.. I will be meeting with her
    tommorrow and watch how her horse is going... and I think this horse
    is just busy and needs to be ridden alot..
    
    		wendy o'
    
    

    Caryn
    
    you back from vaca??
    
    
    hows your horse working??
    
    
    				wendy o'