Conference noted::equitation

    Out here in Colorado, I have the same problems.  As far as the water
    is concerned, we use the flexible rubber tubs to hold the water
    for the horses.  I can flip them upside down and stomp on them to
    break the ice block out before refilling (it frequently goes sub-zero
    at night.)  Also, I still use the hose in the winter; I disconnect
    it after use, pick one end up over my shoulder, and run the hose
    over my shoulder to gravity-drain the water out of it (freezing
    cold doesn't block an empty hose!)  As for lighting, our house is
    a couple hundred feet from the stable, so I have t dual spotlight
    mounted on the upper part of the house with the switch inside; flick
    the switch and there's enough light to do most of the stuff.  Of
    course, we'd have the same problem seeing an injury in that light
    as you'd have with the flashlight.

    I had this problem at one barn I was at a few years back. I had battery
    operated lamps for the barn. There are some fluorescent lamps on the
    market that throw a lot of light. You could get rechargable batteries
    also. I made sure I had plenty of light for the barn. I worried about
    a horse being sick or colic and having to have the vet out an not
    having enough light for the vet to work.
    
    Gina
    

    had this problem in the past so we make a fense run to to water
    and turned the horses out to get the water themselves.  they took
    a long time at first but they knew after a while, the hay was
    being put in the stall so that they had something to come back to.
           
    this works great when you had over 25 stalls to do and the focet
    froze.

A fellow noter went with me to a show a couple years ago. I had an emergency
flashlight withme. It the squarish type with a flashing red and yellow side
a normal flashlight on the end and a florecent light on another side. SHe
founf out that hanging the strap around her neck (its a short comfortable
strap the hold teh light horizontally) would make it point where ever she 
turned. Using the florecent side there was quit a bit of light... and it
made cleaning the stall  not problem.

Using rechargable batteries would decrease cost.  

THe neatest thing about this was that you had your hands free and the light
pointed where you wanted to see.

RE:< Note 1072.4 by EQUINE::DANI >

	P.S.  I liked it sooo much that I got one of my own!!!  Very
		handy!!  It it was a dark, cold, and rainy labor-day 
		weekend....

				;-)

    Lighting:
    
    Have you thought of running a waterproof extension cord out to the
    barn for electricity? People use them all the time to hookup xmas
    tree lights outdoors. They're made for winter weather. People
    leave them outdoors in the snow and rain and run them into their
    houses. After you get you're permanent lighting, you'll still 
    find them handy for doing things around the house & barn.They're 
    commonly found in hardware stores and even in Department stores
    near the xmas lights at "that" time of year. If you have to buy
    2 or more don't worry about connecting them together..I believe
    what people do is to wrap electrical or duct tape around the
    connection to insure waterproofing & that they won't pull apart.
    Buy a shoplight flourescent fixture and hang it from the ceiling
    then:
    
    	1) Connect it directly to the weatherproof cord.   
    			or
    	2) Connect it to another extension cord that you run up to the
    	   light.
    
    These cords are commonly ORANGE, blue, etc. I think that that you
    will find them to be less expensive than solar lighting. Have you
    ever looked at the tiny light bulbs that they put in solar lights?
    I don't think they shed as much light as expected, that's why they
    come with reflects built in them like flashlights to intensify the
    light. It's so simple to run a line out of a house window and down
    to the barn and under a door or through a window to the light of
    your choice ( a woman can simply do it). Just unplug the cord in the
    house and no electricity reaches the barn! 
    
    Make sure to keep electical cords completely out of reach of any Horse!
    Don't hook more than a couple of things to the electrical source
    at once! How about a light in loft and one overhead in your aisle
    so you can groom them at night too?
    
    Second option:
    
    Other options usually don't shed as much light. How about a brass
    (not all glass) Kerosene lantern? That's what the farmers used to
    use before electric became common. Care and Prudent use to prevent
    fire goes along with this idea. But these lanterns could be hung
    in a safe place in the barn and from what I understand they shed
    considerable light. 
    
    Note: I've used battery lights when camping. They are sufficient
    for tents ..but I think they don't shed enough light to be practical
    for other purposes. The batteries are expensive to keep replacing
    and I would think you might end up needing to several times thru
    the winter, what do you do on those nights with no light? 
    
    Tip: Remeber to hang lights high to shed the most light!
    
    			Hope this helps...Nancy
    
    

    As a person who kept horses 4 miles from home on land with nothing
    but a 8 ft by 12 ft shed. the fence ran off of a car battery, the
    hay was under a tarp up on pallets set on cement blocks, and for
    lights we had a small generator (700 watts). We used a flashlight
    to find the starter cord but even at 18 below it never failed to
    start. Water was brought from home in plastic jugs. This operation
    worked for 2 years before we could build a real barn, get electric
    hooked up and a well drilled. Now the house is under construction!!!
    I can't wait, horses in the backyard again.
    Sandy
    

    All this talk about winter is depressing me.  I also have to carry
    buckets of water twice a day from the house.  Our barn is located
    across the street from the house so there is no way to get a water
    pipe to the barn.  Someday maybe a well!!!!  The water resistant 
    electrical cord sounds like the best idea.  I used to use a floresent
    light, even strapped around your neck it's akward.  Bend down to
    pick up a hoof and you take a lamp in the face.  
    
    I would much rather concentrate on how many days till spring than 
    how many days till frozen buckets.
    
    Karen "who_would_love_to_have_a_frost_free_hydrant"

    And there are always frozen buckets...................
    
    I work at a stable with ohhh somewhere in the vacinity of 60 horses...
    we hook up and unhook a hose and keep it inside during the winter
    (rather than chance some water still being inside it to freeze).
    The thing I probaby can offer for the prior noter, is if you have
    electricity in the barn, and are lugging water buckets! they have
    heating elements that sit in the tubs of water and keep it unfrozen...
    we have a few in the mare pens.  You will have to bring water
    sometimes, but if you can put a couple full tubs aside and cover
    them you probably will only have to do water a few times a week,
    instead of all week!   We sometimes truck over water in garbage
    barrels if you can fit it in a vehicle.  Better than the one at
    a time deal.
    
    I also think... I love this weather... no bugs, cool rides!
    but, the bad side is ... its the doorway to WINTER!
    
    Good luck !
    

    The electrical cord sounds like a great idea!!!  I use those heavy
    orange ones in the Summer to clip my horse but didn't think it was safe
    to leave out all Winter.  Maybe I'll give that a shot.
    
    The barn is about 150 feet from the house and I do put on the back
    flood light on and it does an okay job.  But it just sheds light on the
    aisleway not the stalls or tack room.
    
    I also have a big rechargeable light but again it only shoots light in
    one direction and it's too big to hang around my neck.
    
    I also tried those battery operated closet lights for my tack room but
    they didn't do too much either.
    
    The water lugging is something I think I will always have to contend
    with.  What about bath tubs, do they crack if the water gets frozen in
    them?  I've been using one all Summer (didn't have it last Winter) and
    was concerned that that may happen and should just stick to buckets
    outdoors.
    
    Thanks for the great ideas!
    
    Susan
    

    OH, the reason I discounted the hose idea is because I have 150 feet of
    hose and it would take more time and work to wrap it up and bring it in
    then lugging the water.
    
    Does anybody leave their outside faucets on all Winter?  My husband says
    the pipes will freeze so I get water from the kitchen sink which is a
    real pain because the boots have to come off and on each time I come in
    with a bucket so I don't track in mud.
    
    Susan
    

    I have the same problem; my horses live in my backyard, and have
    an 8'x16' run-in shed which I can close up snug if they weather
    is really rough.
    
    Horses drink approximately 10 gallons of water a day; in the winter
    they will get some of this by eating snow. So, for my 2 horses,
    I keep 4 5-gallon buckets running all winter; 2 out with the guys
    and 2 inside thawing; I refill and switch them twice a day. I get
    them free from anyone who'll give them to me!! Agway has brand new
    ones that they use to put oil in; the local supermarkets, if they have
    a bakery, get frosting and flavorings in them; bottling and canning
    companies (Pepsi/Coke) get syrup in them. So if they crack it's no
    great loss. 
    
    My brother put an outside faucet in for me which only freezes up
    on the coldest days; last year, it froze up maybe half a dozen
    times. It's a special faucet, with a very long neck that goes
    through the wall of the house. The knob you use to turn it on and
    off is outside of the house, but the water is actually stopped in
    the pipe *inside* of the house where it's warm. And it's installed
    at an angle, so once you turn the water off it drains out of the
    pipe; then there's no water in the pipe outside of the house or in
    the wall to freeze.
    
    Also, there is electrical cable made especially to be buried. You
    can run it from the house to the barn, and bury it underground. I
    had some put in, but haven't buried it yet. I was told that I could
    leave it exposed, too, but not to let the horses get to it. You can
    run it from your fuse box to the barn, and run a couple of lights
    or plugs off of it, just like you would run wire from your fuse box
    to a room.
    
    Good luck! I heard on the radio the other day that the new Old
    Farmers' Almanac is out; it says we'll have more snow than last year
    but it will be a generally mild winter. So there's some consolation!
    
    Julie

    Where did you get the cable and what does it look like?
    
    Sue
    

    My barn is about 150 feet in back of my house also.  For several
    years we ran extension cords from the house for light until we put
    in a permanent cable through the trees.  For water, I have a 140
    gallon galvanized stock tub which I fill up once a week by running
    hoses out to the barn.  This is kept thawed by a floating stock 
    tub heater. I keep the tub in my tack room and then use a small 
    bucket to fill the buckets inside the stalls.  That amount of water
    will last about 10 days for two horses or about 7 days for 3 horses.
    
    As far as outside faucets are concerned, there is a type of faucet
    that can be turned off and on outside all winter.  I think that
    they actually keep the valve part in the house.
    
    Hope this helps,
    Diana
    

    
    The old style wrought iron bath tubs will not crack when water freezes.
    As mentioned, you could use a heater and fill you buckets from the
    tub. A little light salt in the water buckets will prevent freezing
    as well as a tenis ball, which we've used pretty successfully.
    
    I would also use the insulated extention cords for light. A heavy
    gauge (12AWG) could safely support several 100 watt floods or even
    better, flourescent lights.  
    
    A fascet prone to freezing, if left on just a drip, will keep
    pipes from freezing.  
    
    

    
    re: .13 
    
    The cable I got is made of a white plastic/rubbery material and is
    oval-shaped in the cross-section. It's about an inch across and maybe
    just under a half-inch thick. I bought mine at the local hardware
    store.
    
    -j
    

    WOW! What excellent ideas!
    
    I wish I had asked this question last Fall.
    
    Thanks again!
    
    Susan
    

    Okay.... Let me get this straight.  So now I'll fill my tub once a week 
    and put a tennis ball and a little salt in.  Does the heater stay in all 
    the time too?  Is that dangerous?  Or do I put it in a couple of times a 
    day?
    
    Also, if I keep the tub in the paddock and take water out of it for the
    2 stalls do you think it will really last up to a week?  Even if I have
    to fill it a couple of times a week it would be better.
    
    I have the cord already so I will set that up with electrical tape this
    weekend. Now I need to buy a flourecent light and water heaters.  Is a
    "floating stock tub heater" the same thing or is it something different?
    
    I would look into the faucet idea but I don't have a clue on how to do
    it and I doubt I can get my husband involved in this project.
    
    Sue
    

    The floating stock tub heaters are on sale in any of the feed stores.
    They are supposed to have thermostats so they heat the water to
    40 degrees F and then turn off.  Do not leave them on and take them
    out of the water as they will overheat.  I have had no problems
    with leaving them on all the time, although I unplug them when the
    temperature is above 30 degrees to save electricity.  Last year,
    I put styrofoam underneath the tub and insulation for a hot water
    heater around the tub to save more electricity.
    
    As for how long that amount of water will last.  When I had said
    a week, I forgot that I mainly use the tub water for nigttime use.
    During the day, I turn them out in a place where I can easily get
    water from a well.  It sounds like you may have to fill the tub
    more often.
    
    Good luck,
    Diana
    

    
    In your original note you asked about rubber mats - so for my
    two cents worth. At the barn were I keep my horse, they put rubber
    mats down in the ailse - its been great. No more slipping on the
    the wooden floor (or the blacktop either). It is also quieter with
    the mats. Somebody has some for sale in the tack-for-sale note.
    
    You might want to check it out.
    
    Nancy
    

    
    re: -1 Rubber Mats
    
    I recall someone saying in this file somewhere that Hope Rubber in
    Fitchburg, MA sells various sizes at a really good price.
    
    -j

    Does putting a tennis ball in the water bucket really keep it from
    freezing? It would be a LOT cheaper than an insulated waterr bucket!

    I found it does help some, but the idea does fail in extreme cold.
    Each time the horse drinks, he sets the ball off in a floating
    motion that helps keep the water surface from freezing first.
    This in addition to a small pinch of Mortons Light Salt (electrolites)
    which will furthur prevents freezing has been successful for us the
    past two winters. Also keeping the buckets away from wind chill
    factors and in the morning sun helps furthur. 
    
    All in all, the buckets still freeze a small amount. But not to
    the point of needing a hammer and chisle to pick at it!
    I compared a bucket of straight water next to a bucket of ideas.
    There is a diff.
     

    We usually leave a small rubber (childs) beach ball in our outside
    water tub.  It is large enough to keep a 'nose-size' hole in the tub
    if it freezes over, otherwise it does a pretty good job keeping the
    water moving about so it doesn't freeze over as much.  We haven't had 
    much of a problem with inside buckets freezing over as the barn, when
    closed up, stays warmer than the outside temps.
    
    If you need more than one extension cord to reach the barn, it would
    probably be a good idea to tie the two ends together before plugging
    them in, as if someone trips over the cords, they won't come apart
    (Duct tape doesn't always hold) and you';ll avoid the chance of someone
    picking up a live (wet?) end and getting a shock.
    
    Michele _whose_horses_love_to_play_w_the_water_ball
    

    
    Underground electrical wire (10 gauge) can be purchased in Grossmans.
    It only costs about $4.00 per 250 feet than regular wire. My husband
    says that it is called UDC (underground conduit) or UDG (underground). 
    Anyways it is easy to find (just ask a clerk) and commonly used for 
    permanent wiring to barns.
    	It is also used to run electricity from the barn underground
    to an electric fence/paddock area. It is suggested that the wire
    be buried approx. 12 inches in areas that horses will be walking
    over (pathes etc.) or vehicles passing over etc.(High traffic areas).
    Otherwise a minimum of 6 inches deep is sufficient. 
    	I would run 2 wires from the house to the barn and put half
    the lights on one with a circuit breaker and half on the other 
    wire with a breaker. If one breaker trips, at least you won't
    loose all your power to the barn (can be considered safer too).
    Use the extra wire to run a line underground (with a charger in
    the barn) for electric wiring...be sure that when it comes up on
    the fence end that if you've enclosed it in pipe..to bend the pipe
    downward in an upside down "u" shape to prevent water from running
    into the pipe.
    	Remember to run a telephone line to the barn with the electricity.
    Why? no reason not to! And... it's really convienent not to have
    to run to the house to answer calls. This way you're not confined
    to the house waiting for important phone calls when horse chores
    need to be done.
    	
    	It's easy to run underground wire considering you don't have
    to dig a deep ditch 3-4 feet for it.  But for water lines you have
    to dig a ditch below the frost line. You can get away with 3 feet
    if you line the ditch with hay, lay down the line, and put 8-12"
    hay on top....this is what the old time farmers did. My husband
    put in a ditch that was 3 feet deep in places and used hay as described
    to insulate the PVC and to keep it warm as it decomposes. The
    line hasn't frozen yet and we don't expect it ever will. Copper
    water pipes loose alot of heat and you'll have a hard time getting
    hot water to the barn in the winter..Flexible PVC is the best to
    use, it maintains the water temperature better.
    
        			Regards, Nancy
                                                               

    
    In the "olden" days I was told they used what resources they had
    to heat water. Would take a water source and run a 1/2" copper
    pipe from the barn and twist it in coils that resembled a still.
    They would bury the pipe running from the barn in a couple of
    feet of manure (thrown on top) and run the coiled section up 
    thru the middle of a manure pile and run the pipe back to the 
    barn buried under a couple feet of manure. Each year they would
    replace the manure that decomposed over the lengths of pipe running
    to and from the barn to the compost pile. It's said they always
    had warm water available, even in the winter.
    
    	I wonder if this could be adapted to the materials handy today?
    
    - PVC pipe running from the house 
    - Heat tape to keep the water from freezing until manure.
    - Copper coiled at the center of a manure pile
    - Heat tape at the barn end, pipe leading to a faucet
    
    For summer use
    
    - stop valve (winter water turn off)
    - pipes from stop valve run overhead across ceilings and down into stalls
    - Automatic waterers in stalls with drain pipe to outside preventing
      overflow flooding and (drain water for winter.
                                  
    If it worked for them....	Regards, Nancy
       
       

    
    About hoses...my husband says that even without water, they freeze
    and become stiff in the winter. You have to bring them into the
    house to keep them pliable. I would think it more work to move
    the hose and not worth it if you only have a couple of buckets of 
    water. But, what if you add a hose reel to this situation? 
    
    Keep the hose on a reel inside the house, and just pull the hose
    out to the barn and fill the buckets, then go back in the house
    and reel it in!
    
    			Regards,Nancy