Conference noted::equitation

    All mine have done this on occasion....before it gets to the raw
    stage I use listerine mouth wash (now that your horses tail is raw
    that might hurt!)....or medicated soap or shampoo, like phisoderm
    or betadine....daily until the problem clears up...usually a couple
    of days.  I have never had luck with baby oil.  You mentioned that
    you ruled out worms but it might be worth a fecal check anyway...just
    to be sure.
    
    Jeannie

	Hi!

	The only time my critter has rubbed his tail is when a it has a
	TICK.  He's been lucky, his first tick of the season was discovered
	on Monday.  He had already dislogged it, but it left a puncture-like
	wound which was really bloody and gross.  I washed his tail (not one
	of his favorite routines) and looked for more.  

	It is the season for this buggers -- check those tails daily!  The
	tick usually stop at the tip of the tail after climbing up the hairs,
	but Taemar's was quite a bit higher.

					-Caroline

    I have read that sometimes a male horse will rub their tail when
    their sheath is dirty. It turns out that cleaning sheaths is not
    something that is done very often althoughit should be. Something
    to check on though. Good luck.
    
    bobk
    

    
    	HI there....
    
    	Ma nag started this unhappy vice last year....  I bought an
    	iodine based shampoo frum ma Vet and that worked fine!  This
    	year he hasn't started on his tail (yet!) but did start on his
    	mane and so I started with the shampooin' last week.  This seems
    	to be stoppin' his rubbin'.
    
    	Susan

    For tail rubbing, we were told by our vet to use a lotion that controls
    mange in dogs.  I can't remember the name, but it can be bought
    in any pet store, and I believe it begins with an S.

      The stuff is called Sulfadone, and you can get it in grocery stores
    too, if they have a the pet supply area.
      Linda

    The Betadine shampoos with a spray of baby oil and listerine after
    seems to work good also! The baby oil and listerine just get mixed
    together in a spray bottle and worked in after the area has been
    washed. Good luck!
    
    Linda
    

    Thanks everyone!  Caroline, I don't know how you escaped the ticks
    as long as you have -- those little charmers have been in our area
    for over a couple of weeks now, and the horses are checked constantly
    for them.  I'll try the betadine/listerine treatment and hope it
    works.  I'm taking a long weekend to drop in on a couple of shows,
    so I'll report back Monday.  And Bob, I'll be honest, I hope it's
    not the sheath.  Ki is never a gentleman come cleaning time, so
    that'll be my last resort.
    
    Thanks again, and I'll let you know if it works.
    
    Dawn

    Gee Dawn, maybe it's because Taemar runs too fast or swishes his tail 
    alot!  :-)

    Most of the horses in the barn have had ticks found in their tails. One
    in particular was found full of scabs and dried pus-looking globs!!  He
    didn't appear to be rubbing his tail, but he was constantly wringing it.
    Since this episode, his tail's been washed and betadine-d and it is being
    checked daily.

					-Caroline

	You could try - once the tail has started to heal - using
	a tail bandage, this protects the tail if or when he tries
	to rub it again.   

	Over here (UK) this is a common practice as not only does
	it help protect the tail against rubbing, it also encourages
	the tail hairs to lie flat !

	Some horses rub their tails, not because it is itching but 
	because it feels nice !!

	CJA

    I have to start this update by explaining that there was a
    miscommunication with the vet.  I did not originally speak to
    him in person, the message was relayed to me.  There was
    a miscommunication, and where it exactly it stemmed from is
    in not necessary to go into.
    
    However, what I want to stress is that I was getting no results
    at all from any of the methods everybody offered and I lost my
    patience.  I called the vet directly, and he did come see my
    horse on Friday while I was there.  The reason none of our
    combined efforts weren't working was that there was a physical
    problem.  Ki developed an allergy to bug bites.  The vet used
    a term which sounded like Quick-something.  (Don't quote me,
    I have no idea and didn't bother questioning).  Anyway, the
    vet gave Ki a shot and he hasn't rubbed his tail at all.  However,
    the vet did say that the extreme temperature changes we've been
    having in New England have caused a lot of horses to have this
    problem that have never had it before.  Therefore, if you notice
    that your horse is having this problem I would recommend that you
    do call your vet immediately and don't wait like I did.
    
    I was also told that Ki's case is really mild.  I did show him
    this past week and it seemed no one besides me noticed it.  Not
    enough of the hair had been removed to become obvious to anyone
    other than a panicky owner.  (I still insist it looks awful).
    But the vet said he was glad I called him as soon as I had, because
    the horse obviously is uncomfortable (hence the rubbing) and he
    has seen cases where the tail is really in bad shape by the time
    he gets there.  (Relative term "bad shape")
    
    So, just thought I'd tell you, I had a relieved/happy ending to
    this episode, and also to share with you not to just ignore it
    if it happens to your horse.
    
    Again, thanks for all the help.
    
    Dawn

    Oops -- one sentence should have read "None of our combined
    efforts were working"  Sure changes the meaning of that
    sentence.

    My gosh, I can't believe the amount of good info. in this particular
    note.  Sulfadone, huh.  Well, I'll get some of that or else phisoderm
    soap.  I have three horses of my own and I operate a small boarding
    stable here in Colorado Springs, CO.  It's Erin Ranch.  This warm
    season my show mare is rubbing her tail and my stud colt and my
    two-year old QH filly are both rubbing their manes.  The old baby
    oil and Mane & Tail just aren't working.  Since my vet bill scares
    me half to death I was determined not to call the vet.  Also, I
    worm every eight weeks so I knew it wasn't that.  I also have a
    question about ticks.  I've been here in CO. for five years and
    they haven't been a problem.  But other horse people here are com-
    plaining about them this season because of warm wet weather which
    is unusual here.  Anyway, I brushed something off my mare's butt
    near the midpoint of her tail about ten days ago.  What has developed
    is a little swollen spot about the size of a silver dollar with
    a pussy spot in the middle with a little black hole in the middle
    of that.  I've been putting furozine (spelling?) ointment on it
    daily and it's gone down about a third.. Is this a tick?  If it
    is what should I be doing to treat it.  I'm afraid to mess with
    it other than to medicate it for fear of infection.  I was just
    about getting ready to take her to the vet but it semms such a 
    minor thing and my overreaction to anything about my horses is why
    I HAVE such a huge vet bill.  Can anyone help me?  
    
    Faith Brennan

    Hi Faith,
    
    Without seeing it, I can't be sure - but the sore could be caused
    by a cutebra (culebra?  something like that, it's been a while since
    I was a vet tech) fly larva.  These mostly appear on cattle, but
    I have seen them on dogs and horses occasionally.  If this is what
    it is, you will eventually see a large, disgusting, moving larva
    in there.  We are talking GROSS.  Really gross.  You would need
    to get it out of there, which might require anesthetic depending
    on your horse's behavior.  The old-time solution was to heat up
    a glass Coke-bottle, place it on the sore, and as the bottle cooled
    a vacuum was created that removed the larva - not very pleasant.
    These flies are fairly common out West.  This could also be an abscess
    from some other cause.  (I hope nobody is eating while they are
    reading this note; if so, my apologies!!)
    
    It does not sound like your horse has a tick.  If it were a tick,
    no matter how swollen the body, you would probably see its legs.

             <<< DELNI::WORK$01:[NOTES$LIBRARY]EQUITATION.NOTE;1 >>>
                      -< - Equitation Notes Conference - >-
================================================================================
Note 494.0                    The horse w/ no tail                     7 replies
MED::D_SMITH                                         31 lines  27-JAN-1988 08:24
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This problem is one I'm sure everyone has experienced at one point
    in time, and any attemps I've made to correct it have failed so far.
                   
    Our Thoroughbred is rubbing his tail on the stall door and is pulling
    the hairs out one by one. Thoughs left are standing on end and it's
    starting to look pretty sick.
    
    I have been worming every four to six weeks. A fecal sample came
    up negative twice so far. There appears to be no ticks or lice as far 
    as I can see. The only thing I notice is at the base of the tail, only
    because it's black as the night, is a white and chalky film as though it
    were dry skin. His tail and mane is brushed daily and I've never
    seen signs like this on his mane. He doesn't really appear to be
    rubbing it. It's more like he is using the stall door to lean against
    during the day and night. I've walked in the barn in the morning
    and there he is, leaning against the door again!
    
    My attempts to correct this so far have been 1ST; string some electric
    fencing along the door (no power). No good! 2ND; line the whole length
    of the door with fence insulators to create discomfort. No good! Now I
    have carpet tacked to the door to provide a smooth surface hoping
    less hairs would be pulled out. No good!
    
    All I have done so far has been unsuccessfull. If the dry skin is
    the cause, he is more or less formed a habit out of leaning and
    will be difficult to break him of it. 
    
    Has anyone got any suggestions on what to do to stop this, and then
    prevent it from starting again. Maybe the electric fence wire should
    be charged??? 

================================================================================
Note 494.1                    The horse w/ no tail                        1 of 7
ASD::WIMBERG                                          7 lines  27-JAN-1988 10:09
                                -< feet hurt? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    Have you considered the possiblity that he is leaning on the
    door because his feet hurt? Leaning takes some of the pressure
    off the toes.
    
    Baby oil helps if the skin is dry, just rub (gently) a little in.

================================================================================
Note 494.2                    The horse w/ no tail                        2 of 7
SSDEVO::KOLLER                                        4 lines  27-JAN-1988 11:00
                               -< Clean sheath? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This subject has come up before in another note. Since your horse
    is a gelding, there is a possibility that a sheath in need of cleaning
    can cause tail rubbing. Just a thought.

================================================================================
Note 494.3                    The horse w/ no tail                        3 of 7
MED::D_SMITH                                         10 lines  27-JAN-1988 11:03
                           -< No Signs of sore feet >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have considered this, but he is not lame or favoring any one foot
    over the other. He is worked daily with no signs of problems and
    is willing to work at any pace with no resistance what so ever.
    
    We have had him for 4 months and he started the day he was delivered.
    This is why I suspect habit formed by some problem (parasites,
    lameness) prior to us. 
    
    If dry skin is the problem, once cured, we still have the habit.
    

================================================================================
Note 494.4                    The horse w/ no tail                        4 of 7
SEDJAR::NANCY                                        37 lines  27-JAN-1988 13:47
                       -< Don't scratch it for them!!! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I most certainly know this problem...I have a 3 yr. old filly with
    the same problem. I first suspected worming was needed, but since
    she is wormed regularly, I really didn't believe this to be the
    problem. (It just sounds the most logical) So I asked the Vet to
    look at her. What he basically said was...If the horse is wormed
    regularly, and still rubs after worming...it's not the problem.
    He looked at her tail and didn't see much dryness...just a little,
    like your horse, and suggested that I buy a medicated shampoo and
    wash her tail completely every day or once a week (which ever I
    perfer). I can't tell you how this works, because I haven't done
    it due to the time of year, which isn't the greatest time to wash
    tails. I'm hoping it works, but I suspect it won't. I think that
    she just LIKES to rub her behind, because it feels good. Once, I
    caught her rubbing, and in the spur of the moment, scratched her
    hindquarters for her, and guess what? She loved it, and started
    swaying back and forth. I did it again for her another day when
    I caught her rubbing, and she loved it. Big mistake!! This is a
    horse that loved to get her neck scratched, and you can guess what
    she prefers now.! It stopped her from rubbing, her tail looks better,
    but when you go to her stall and start scratching the neck, she
    politely turns around so you can scratch..... I stopped this because
    I feel like a pervert scratching her behind, and I'm going to try
    the shampoo in the spring. I really didn't like her turning around
    for a scratch every time I went to her stall either! I can only
    image what other people would think when they go to pet her and
    she turns around! But this is a frustrating problem, and I so vainly
    want her tail to look nice! I might add for you experienced people
    out there, who might be thinking I'm nuts for what I did....I'm
    a new horse owner (less than 6 months) trying to solve a problem
    that I can't find an answer to in a book! I've read everything I
    can, and can't find any reasons other than parasites or tail dryness
    to be causing this. But what if she just LIKES to scratch herself?
    She's a halter show horse, and her tail would look soooo pretty
    if she stopped....I really sympathize with this problem. Anybody
    else have a horse that just likes to rub their tail? What can we
    do about it?
                                               

================================================================================
Note 494.5                    The horse w/ no tail                        5 of 7
ASD::WIMBERG                                         18 lines  27-JAN-1988 13:50
                                 -< baby oil >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    My TB had the dry skin and did not retain the habit after I got
    rid of the dry skin. He did like to sit on his feed tub however.
    
    My mare and the gelding in the stall next to her's go thru phases
    were they lean aggainst the door for a couple of weeks, then they
    stop. I think they do it as a contest.
    
    Anyway, baby oil ( or mineral oil I suppose) is what I used. I squirt
    some a the top of the tail, then work it in with my hands. Always
    use a downward motion to minimize breaking the hairs. Make sure
    you get under the tail and do the whole tailbone. I read in one
    magazine to use vaseline but the baby oil is less of a mess.
    
    Nancy
    
    let me know if you solve the problem(s)

================================================================================
Note 494.6                    The horse w/ no tail                        6 of 7
MPGS::SCHOFIELD                                       6 lines  28-JAN-1988 08:59
                                 -< Try This >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    I too have had problems before with horses rubbing their tails,
    manes, etc..  I mix baby oil and listerine together, more listerine
    than oil so it does not get greasy.  The listerine seems to help
    the itching and the oil helps the dry skin.  It also promotes growth.
    I generally use it every other day or when necessary.  
================================================================================
Note 494.7                    The horse w/ no tail                        7 of 7
MARX::FOX "A momentary lapse of reason... PF"        13 lines  28-JAN-1988 12:23
                      -< Listerine + broken skin = Ouch! >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Re: .6
    
    The Listerine is a good idea mixed in with the baby oil ONLY if
    the skin is not broken! If there is a fair amount of redness, or
    ANY broken skin, wait until it heals before starting with the Listerine
    or it will hurt the horse!
    
    Also, empty, thoroughly cleaned out Windex bottles with a sprayer
    make great tail wash spritzers... Just seperate the hair and spritz
    away....
    
    Linda
    

    You might look for pin worms.  down south we used to put vasoline
    once a week under the tail to keep them from itching.  

Since it's the end of the winter, and baths have been a rarity, have you 
considered that his tail might be dirty and itchy?  My gelding usually only rubs
his tail when it's dirty.

    Tis the itchy season, I have already gotten out my "Nag-so-soft" for
    the guys manes and tails. Lots of brushing and a spray of the oil helps
    get through the shedding season with manes and tails intact.
    Sandy
    

I combine equal amounts of Listerene & Baby Oil into a spray bottle and spray it
on my horses mane & tail every time I groom him.  The listerene kills any 
bacteria and the babyoil softens the dry skin.  I haven't had any problems since
I've used it.

Susan

    
    	TRY listerine (sp?) it will take the itch out and has a mild
    antiseptic that if they is a fungi or just plain dirty build up should
    help..
    
    I used it, nothing to write home about, i also have used baby oil and
    avons stuff, i wouldnt use if it looked red and irrated..
    
    personally i would just wash it real good and put a listerine on it
    and maybe something to moisturize the skin.
    
    oils attract dirt and can make it worse.. try wraping it..and the oil
    can set in.
    

    re. -2.. sorry i guess thats what i get for holding up the file :^}
    
    

    A little late but we get there.....
    
    		We had some broodmares tht would rub when they were in
    season.  We just washed their back-sides with mild soap and wrapped
    their tails.  This would help until they went out of season.  
    
    vlm

How do you folks stop/prevent tail rubbing?  What products have you used that
help with this problem?

We used to just wash the tail and rub "Mane and Tail Groom"(M-T-G) into it...I 
think that stuff is no longer available. In a way, that's OK with me; it was 
greasy and smelled like an overly ripe salami! But, it did help.

Thanks 
John

    I've had good luck with baby oil.  I wash the tail, rinse, apply baby
    oil, rinse again.  Since I moved to my new place, though, and the
    horses' stalls open onto their paddocks, the problem has disappeared
    for the most part.  So I think part of it was boredom -- horse in its
    stall being bored says to himself, gee I have this tiny, teeny, almost
    imperceptible itch on my tail, I think I'll scratch it; Ah, that's
    amusing, I think I'll keep this up for the next hour or so.  Horse 
    outside perceives the same itch and says I have this itch but this 
    grass is much more interesting.  And then the itch is forgotten or
    disappears or whatever.  (assuming the itch is not from irritation from
    shampoo or something, but just a passing "itch")

    
    	We use listerine, shampoo, then baby oil. It always seems
    	to work...then keep the baby oil up every now and then...
    
    	Sherry
    

    One of my trainer friends does shampoo, then rinse with diluted
    listerine.  I've always heard that you didn't want to put baby
    oil on the dock of the tail because it will draw dirt and just
    exacerbate any problem already existing.  But I've never tried
    it myself so I don't have any personal experience.
    
    And, btw, the mane and tail stuff *is* still available.  I just
    saw it at Pinewood Saddlery.  And they now have a shampoo also.
    There was a M-N-T advertisement displayed with the product telling
    about how many people are using M-N-T on their own hair with
    these simply amazing results...I almost bought some.  Then I though
    "Naaaahhh...there's only so many things that advertising can get me
    to try."  But, maybe it works.  Anyone else tried it?
    
    And, totally off the subject, I saw a really neat thing at Pinewood.
    It's a net hood to use while riding during bug season. It completely
    covers the horse from ears to withers.  I wonder it I can get one
    for me!
    
    gwen
    

    Would the listerine, baby oil combination work on manes that get chewed
    by stable mates.  My two stand facing each other and "nip" each others
    manes.  
    
    Listerine tastes pretty bad!!! so I assume it would work.
    
    

    I tried Absorbine for a mare who's foal was eating her tail.  Worked
    just fine.  (I tried this only because it was what I had handy --
    LIsterine migh work just as well)

>                 <<< Note 1686.3 by ALFA1::COOK "Chips R Us" >>>
>    And, totally off the subject, I saw a really neat thing at Pinewood.
>    It's a net hood to use while riding during bug season. It completely
>    covers the horse from ears to withers.  I wonder it I can get one
>    for me!
    
Yes, there are net hoods, jackets and pants made for human
bug protection.  I've seen information about them at garden 
shows and in gardening catalogs.    

    
    I got home last night only to see that my QH had rubbed his
    tail!  And show season starts May 9th!   Arrgghhhh!
    
    So, guess what I was doing until 10:00pm last night? (8
    
    A customer also gave me a new "tail recipe" to try...
    
    Mix Betadine, Listerine and mineral oil together.  Betadine
    disinfects, Listerine stops the itch, and mineral oil moistens
    the skin.   (hmmm.....I wonder if that's betadine scrub, so
    there is something that cleans?  I think I will ask...)

    My mare was rubbing the hair off. It stopped as soon as I
    wormed her.  Now she has a big puff at the top of her tail.
    Oh well she is an appy..  ;<)
    
    Carl

    
    	Lynne,
    
    	Don't forget to clean his sheath - that can make him rub, too...
    
    	Sherry
    

    
    Thought of that, Sherry!  Sheaths were done Monday, and 
    they get wormed tonight! It was just an itchy tail, since
    after a good wash and moisturizing, he hasn't rubbed it
    again.....now to find time to wash the other's tail! (;