Conference noted::equitation

    
    Hi Julie,
    
    I own a double registered Pinto/Paint gelding.  He's 16hh and 9
    years old.  I show him english, trail ride him and jump him.  His
    Pinto name is Count On Loaded Dice, his Paint name is Count Joe
    Paul.  We were 1st runner up this year for the horse of the year
    awards from the national Pinto organization - Hunter/Jumper category. 
    We also show english pleasure, hunter under saddle and halter. 
    I show at more Pinto shows because there's more english classes,
    but when the clubs combine to put on one show I'll show him in
    registered Paint classes too.
    
    I am the current secretary for the New England Pinto Horse Association
    and know of a bunch of contacts for you.  You may want to join the
    New England Paint Horse Association.  I'll get the address for you
    and post it as another reply.
    
    Danielle
                                 

    Congratulations on your paint baby.  I wasn't so lucky this year
    with my mare.  (read note 57)  I have a double registered Paint/
    Pinto mare.  Sire was Ratchett.  I mostly ride for pleasure.  I
    would like to get involved with showing, but as of yet I do not
    have a horse trailer to get to any.  I really enjoy my horse.  Most
    of the paints that I have seen have such personalities and they
    are a lot of fun.  Good luck on getting some information on paint
    studs.  I only know of a couple and would be interested on that
    information also.

    
    
         Hi!  My name is Bonnie and I own a 15.2 registered Paint gelding.
     I've had him since last October and opersonally think that Paints
    (and Pintos) are wonderful.  My horse's registered name is Kiawah
    Chief, but everyone calls him K.C.  Right now he is in training,
    and doing very well.  I've gone to a couple of small shows and done
    okay.  I ride more for fun than competition.  K.C. is seven years
    old and acts like he's two.  Anyhow, good luck to you and lets hear
    it for Paints!
                                    -A Paint Lover
    

    My twelve year old son has been showing ponies for the past 2 years
    with what I think are great results. I think that he is at a level
    where he now needs his own horse/poney. I've tried to get him to
    like the poney he has been riding for the last year so I could buy
    it for him. (in the last 3 shows he's has 2 champions and 1 reserve
    champion in the short stirrup under saddle division - all local
    showes). He tells me that he wants a paint. So maybe you paint lovers
    can steer me in the right direction. Are ther paint ponies that
    could be bought at a reasonable price, if so where? I think that
    he would fit best on an animal around 14 hh. 
    
    Thanks for the help.
    Dennis Yeaw

    
    Hi
    
    This is just to let you folks out there, who are interested, know
    about a few (Paint) breeders that I have come across in my search
    for good quality stallions.
    
    
    J-LIN ACRES
     Jay Mele
    1423 Hill,Whitinsville, MA 01588
    617/2345270
    TRAINING-SHOWING-SALES
    The largest selection of paint stallions in New England
    
    
    
    BEAU MEADOW FARM
    Roland & Candy Wetherbee
    P.O. Box 27
    N. Salem, N.H. 03073
    (483-2098) barns phone no.
    
    
    
    
    PAINT-A-HORSE FARM
    Howard & Clare Sparks
    70 Walcott St.
    Stow, MA 01775
    617(562-3153)
    
    
    
    VIENNA FARM
    Tanya Rennie
    Box 167, Fort Hill Rd.
    Gorham, ME  04038
    207(829-4495)
    
    This is just a partial list there are more.
    
    Also, I have the address of two subscription that I have joined
    and enjoy very much.
    
    
    PAINT HORSE JOURNAL
    P.O. Box 18519
    Fort Worth, Texas 76118-0519
    
    
    
    NEW ENGLAND PAINT HORSE CLUB
    RFD#7, Box 229
    Gilford, NH  03246
    
    
    I hope this will help you obtain information that you can benefit
    from.
    
    Julie Kramer
    Sidney, Maine

    Hi,
    
    I have a half arab paint that I use for eventing and dressage. He's
    15 hands and jumps like he's 17 hands (or at least that's how it
    feels.  Outside of fighting the anti-spot predjudice that exists
    in the hunter and dressage community, he's one of the more sucessful
    competition horses in my barn (the rest are thoroughbred crosses).
    Shows are interesting with Wiskers (AKA Spot the wonder horse) 'cause
    he always has a fan club  to root him on (he's got an ego to match
    the jumping ability).
    
    Maureen
    Dayton, Ohio
    

    HELLO,
    HAVING JUST RETURNED TO NEW ENGLAND AFTER FIVE YEARS IN VIRGINIA,I
    AM IMPRESSED WITH THE QUALITY OF THE PAINTS/PINTOS HERE.I CURRENTLY
    OWN 4 PAINT/PINTOS(1 ORIGINALLY FROM NEW ENGLAND)ARIZONA SHADY LADY,
    HER 1986 FOAL,(SENTIMENTAL LADY),BOTH BLK/WHT TOBIANOS AND A SORREL/WHT
    YEARLING (QTON OKLAHOMA STAR),ALSO HAVE HER MOM(AQHA)IN FOAL FOR
    A MAY DELIVERY.MY STALLION (EXQUISITE TASTE)BLK/WHT TOBIANO ALSO-MY
    WIFE AND I HAVE A LIKING TO BLK/WHT I GUESS,IS CURRENTLY IN TRAINING
    AT J-LIN ACRES AND ALSO STANDING AT STUD FOR THE 1987 YEAR.
    
    JULIE,JUST BEFORE MOVING BACK HERE I SOLD A SOLID STUD COLT OUT
    OF NASHVILLE ENCORE -BACK WHEN JUDY LEMOINE OWNED HIM..
    
    J-LIN ACRES (OWNER)JAY MELE WILL BE HAVING AN OPEN HOUSE IN THE
    NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE-I'LL UPDATE HERE WITH DATE/TIME
    
    ITS NICE TO BE BACK HOME
                                     
    GARY AND CELESTE REYNOLDS
    MORNINGSIDE FARM PAINTS & PINTOS
    617-632-8679   DTN:221-5425

    THE DATE FOR THE PAINT/PINTO OPEN HOUSE AT J-LIN ACRES IS FEB 15-1987
    
    GARY

    Paint Lovers,
    
    I would like to advertise the OPEN HOUSE at J-LIN ACRES, February
    15, 1987.  The ad below I've taken from the NEPHC news letter. 
                                
    
    
    
                               J-LIN ACRES
    
                          Takes great pleasure
                          in inviting you to an
                               OPEN HOUSE
                              for our new                           
                             STALLION BARN  
                            February 15,1987
                      from 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.   
                      
    
    
    Come to see our complete training and breeding facility.  This is
    a great chance to view our stallions standing for this 1987 breeding
    season.  We have six stallions, each chosen for their conformation,
    ability and disposition.  Let us make it easy for you to pick the
    right stallion for your mare.  Standing the 1987 breeding season
    at J-LIN ACRES:
    
    McCues Gypsy Bar                   Bright Hi Flash
    Satin Gold                         The Dude Maker
    The New Image                      Exquisite Taste
    
    also Heza Night Train will be returning in April.
    
    
    For additional information call or write:
    
    Jay Mele      
    J-Lin Acres
    1423 Hill St.
    Whitinsville, MA
    
    (617) 234-5270 or
    (617) 234-4403
    

    
    The New England Pinto Horse Association Awards Banquet is being
    held at the HILTON in Merrimack, N.H. on February 7.  At this banquet
    the drawing for a raffle will take place. The winner gets a free
    breeding to any one of the participating stallions.  At this point there
    are 2 stock type, 2 hunter type, 2 pleasure type and one pleasure
    type pony.  The tickets are $1 per chance, procedes going to the
    1987 N.E.Pt.H.A. futurity.
    
    For more information, and a list of the stallions send me mail at
    PIXEL::DANI.        
    

    I am looking for a matching pair of paint or pinto driving ponies.
    I would like something around 14 hands, well matched, and they should
    be well broke.  If any of you have or know of someone that has a
    pair of driving horses for sale, please let me know.
    
    Call Julie @ 207-547-3608 or send mail

    
    
    Has anybody had any new 1988 paint babies?  Let us know, I would
    be interested in hearing about them.
    
    Julie

	 A pony  at  my sister's barn had a pinto filly on April 15. 

	    filly = Sasha Joe
	    dam	  = Charlotte's Web
	    sire  = Spanish Joe


	 My sister  owns  the stallion, the people that own the barn own
     the  mare.  Everybody  lives  in  Bel  Air  Maryland.  Everybody is
     healthy.

	 The filly  has  white  'armpits',  white between her hind legs,
     some  white  legs (don't remember which ones) and some white on her
     face.  The  non-white  is  chestnut.  Charlotte is grey, and Joe is
     chestnut/white.

	 She has another baby due out of a (big) bay mare in June.

    What's the difference between a paint and a pinto?
    
    In the UK, we have piebalds (black and white), and skewbalds (any
    other colour and white).  Collectively, they're called "coloured",
    and there is a quite recently formed Coloured Horse Society.  They
    are still quite uncommon, and tend to be looked down on (I don't
    know why, I like them).
    
    By the way, my pony's chocolate dun - bet you don't have that colour
    in the States!!
    
    Helen.

    	I'm no expert,but I understand that the Paint Horse registry
    is for colored horses which show stock horse characteristics,
    that is,a conformation much like a quarter horse. In fact,I know
    of a couple of quarter horses which had too much white to be
    registered as quarter horses,but were registered as Paints. 
    Within the paints there are two general color patterns;
    Tobiano and Overo. This has something to do with the amount and
    placement of the white, but I don't remember the definition.
    	I believe the Pinto registry registers multi colored horses
    regardless of type. I'm sure there are folks in this notes file
    who can give more detail,or correct me if I'm wrong, but I hope
    this helps a little.
    
    	George
    

    
    
    Guess I can answer this one... I was Secretary for New England Pinto
    Horse asscociation for 5 years. :-)
    
    Paints - The horse *must* have Quarter Horse and or Thoroughbred blood
    lines in addition to the required color.  These horses typically
    display the characteristics of the stock type quarter horse, racing
    quarter horse and or thoroughbred.  The Paint registry has less strict
    rules on the quantity and placement of the color.  A Paint horse may
    only have a white belly spot(can't remeber how many square inches it
    has to be) but the Pinto registry requires that the Pinto markings be
    on the body (as opposed to just head or legs) and it must be normally
    visible (just a belly spot is not enough).
    
    Pinto - The Pinto registry accepts four types: Hunter, Stock, Pleasure
    and Saddle types.  Hunter Type - is a horse with Thoroughbred or racing
    quarter horse characteristics.  Stock type - Stock type quarter horse
    characteristics.  Pleasure - Arabian and Morgan types (I think walking
    horses are put in this category too) Saddle - Saddlebred type horses. 
    The registry does not accept animals with draft or warmblood breeding.
    Pintos also come in pony form.  The ponys are also "typed" into the
    same categories as the horses. In addition there is a miniature horse
    category also - I don't know if the minis are typed.
    
    On to Tobiano and Overo...
    
    Tobiano - Looks like a white horse with dark markings. Typically there
    will be white crossing the back and dark up the chest and up the
    flanks.  The dark tends to look like it's colored from the bottom,
    wrapping upward.  Does not refer to quantity of color.  The edges of
    the colored patches are most likely smooth or rounded.
    
    Overo - Looks like a dark horse with white markings. Usually the entire
    spine is dark (sometimes just the ears and a strip down the spine have
    any dark color at all).  The colored patches tend to be jagged.
    
    I bet thats more than you ever really wanted to know...  ;^)
    
    BTW - I own a double registered Pinto/Paint gelding.  I was shopping
    for a bay thoroughbred, but this guy caught my eye!
    
    Dani
                           

    Thank you - I didn't realise there were breed/type restrictions.
    As far as I know, registered Coloured horses in the UK can be any
    breeding/ cross breeding - anyone else over here know different?
    
    Helen.
    
    

    I am a friend of Roland and Candy Wetherbee of Beaumeadow Farm in
    Auburn, NH.  They have quite a list of paints for sale this year
    as well as a weanling filly out of a pinto (Arab) mare that is just
    gorgeous.  They have a quarterhorse paint stallion named Leo and
    a Bay Arab stallion (SX Saladin son) standing at their farm.  They
    also just recently acquired a very very flashy liver chestnut Arab
    colt that will later be used for pinto breeding.  He is by Canberri
    Bey (Huckleberry Bey) X My Amalda (Cederdell Amal).  He has white
    on all four legs almost beyond his knees and a big white blaze and
    moves like a dream.
    
    Her paint stallion Leo is by Joe Chief Bar X Cherry Leo and what
    a hunk.  First foal crop was 100% spotted fillies.
    
    Any and all of her horses are available for trade as well as for
    sale.  She has four purebred arab mares for sale that are also in
    foal to Sunday Best (SX Saladan son).
    
    If you would like to reach Candy her number is 603-483-2098.
    
    Nancy  DTN 263-6067.
    

    Just wanted to let the Paint people know about a stud colt new to
    the New England area.  I am not familiar with Paints but this guy
    is a beauty!!!  My mother just purchased a 20 mo. old overo stud
    colt from Minnesota.  His name is First Class Image, he is out of
    First Class and is a grandson to Jetolito.  I have been reading
    the Paint Journal since I saw my mother's horse and I know that
    those 2 are nice stallions.
    
    He was entered in the Paint show in Oneco Ct. last weekend but had
    the sniffles so they scratched him.  
    
    Will let you know when he starts showing and how he does as they
    do plan to use him for breeding.
    
    Karen

    I could be wroung but seem to remember "breeding registration" being
    used for a solid colored horse by two Paint parents. By rights such
    an animal is a Paint it just happens to have the wrong paint job.
    
    Sandy
    

    
    My horse is double registered but I'm not sure if his Paint paper
    says Breeding or not.  I do know his Pinto paper say Premium which
    means he has known background, I believe in the Pinot register
    regular would mean unknown back ground.  The breeding stock horses
    have a letter prefix on their registration numbers.
    
    I'll check Dice's papers tonight.
    
    Dani
    

    REGULAR on the papers means you have a 'true' Paint, not just a
    'Breeding stock' paint.  'Breeding Stock' Paints are Paints that
    don't have any white markings above their knees/hocks or behind
    their face, but do have at least one registered APHA parent.  'Breeding
    stock' Paints can still be bred, and their offspring can be registered
    in the APHA (either Regular or Breeding Stock, depending on the
    outcome of the amount of white!).  Also, there are some shows that 
    have 'Breeding Stock' classes.  But, the majority of APHA shows are
    only for Paints that are in the 'Regular' registry.  Of course, Paints 
    in the 'Regular' registry can be bred, and their offspring registered 
    in the APHA.
    
    By the way, I have a Paint mare registerd in the 'Regular' registry
    that was a cropout of 2 AQHA parents.  She somehow ended up with
    LOTS of white!
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    Sherry 

    RE. LAST
    		Why cant a paint be reg aqha also?
    
    cuz a paint is a breed, palomino is a color, just like a dun/buckskin..
                                
    so if i have a aqha, palomino she can be double reg..
    
    but what if i have a aqha palomino (double reg) and the horse
    has a dorsal strip and i reg. the horse
    under the bucksin assoc., then what would i have?????
    
    
    		wendy o'
    
    

    
    You cannot register a horse with the AQHA if it has white above
    the knees or hocks (they may have loosened up this restriction).
    
    Does anyone have a recent rule book?  
    
    Same applies if you breed a AQHA to AQHA and get an outcrop Appaloosa.
    AQHA won't register it.  (Colida -- one of the most famous Appaloosa
    sires, was an outcrop). 

    
    re.27
    aqha is really loosened up... some horses i thought were paints
    were q.h. you are correct about the knees and the hocks...
    oh yea, the face cannot have excessive white.. i can get ny rule
    book out and tell you ho9w much later...
    
    `re.28
    yes you can reg the horse pinto...
    
    pinto is a color paint is a breed..
    
    

        I'm considering selling a double registered Paint/Pinto Mare,
        with blue eyes Sire McCue Gypsy Bar and Dam Shady Jolene.
        I've heard from a previous owner that is interested in buying her
        that the horse is valuable. My wife and I have had this horse for
        3 yrs and haven't had time to show her. My wife just rides
        for pleasure. We've had two foals with her, one of which
        we still own. The only thing I know about shows she's been in
        in the past is that she was a yearling halter Champion. She's
        currently 6 years old and I know less than nothing about horses.
        Yes thats right less than nothing. I know I enjoy them but we're
        building our first home and haven't had time to get involved with
        them. I was wondering if anyone could provide me with information
        about how horses are valued blood lines, shows, whatever and how
        one goes about identifying the worth of a horse? Besides "Its worth
        whatever One Wants To Pay For Them". How do we decide what fair value
        is? One of the reasons I ask is that we previously (1 yr ago) sold 
        her filly to someone locally who immediately turned and sold her for
        about 4 times what we sold her for. Through this same person an original
        owner of our Mare has contacted us a few times about selling but their
        was no interest from us. Well, we've been contacted again and the
        situation is such that it's under consideration but it is a difficult
        decision. Before we decide either way we'd like to have some idea of
        what the horses value is. If we do decide to sell I'd like to have some
        idea of what fair market value is, if it can be deduced. Boy this
        sounds awful to me, I feel like I'm trying to decide whether I should
        sell a car or not when it is much more than that.
        
        Thanks for any help...
        Chuck Wilson (226-7317, NAC::WILSON, LKG, Littleton, Ma.)
        

    re.30
    just consider the market, the highest selling horse at the aqha
    congress went for 15k and the aveage was under 5k...(these all
    all horses with points, top bloodlines etc..)
                                                
    but then again if you can get the price, but the people know 
    horses inside and out (show quality)eng/west, you can expect to
    get, lets say a mare, 3yr, pro trining (60 days, say) top bloodlines
    i woulkd say 3k tops.
    maybe 3500. maybe..
    
    my mare i'm looking to sell her (good home only, and only thru word
    of mouth) for about 2500.00 becuz things are bad, she qualified
    consistately for world show..3 years, and just made last month,
    top ten 1988 show leaders in road hack..
    people say i'm crazy i should be asking more, most say 48-5500
    well if you cant sell them you better lower your price..
    
    		i was gunna trade her for a nice filly unbroke,
    they wanted a mint for her... anyway they said they wanted cil,
    
    i got her vetted out, my horse passed but theires didnt....
    i sent the horse back and got mine back...whew....
    
    mines on the circuit showing, few judges are gunna pick a lame horse!
    

    The AQHA has fairly strict registration rules.  Breeding stock (mares/
    stallions) are allowed to have white below the knees/hocks and a
    blaze face that does bot go past the eyes or the end of the top
    lip.  No white is allowed on any other part of the body.  Glass
    or blue eyes are also not allowed.  Geldings and spayed mares can
    have white that goes to the stifle behind and a little way above
    the knee and the white on the face can extend to a bald face and
    white that is on the lower lip and jaw.  The AQHA also allows
    registration of horse that have one parent registered in the Jockey
    Club in the Appendix book.  When the appendix horse has earned 10
    AQHA points they can be moved to the permenant book.
    
    
    Paint/pinto horses can be of almost any breeding.  The only
    requirment is the color.  I have seen registered paints/pintos that
    were of Arab and Saddlebred breeding.  I have a friend that showed
    a pinto half Arab to a Top Ten at the Arab Nationals.  Sonny Dee
    Bar, a Top Ten QH sire, is known for sireing babies with too much
    white to be registered AQHA. He is used extensivly by Paint and
    Appaloosa breeders because of this.
    
    Palamino and buckskin are also color breeds.  The same basic rules
    apply for these registrations.   Any basic breeding as long as the
    horse is the correct color.   
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    Pat

re:< Note 100.32 by BSS::LEECH "Pat Leech CX01/02 DTN 522-6044" >
    
>    Paint/pinto horses can be of almost any breeding.  

	 Paints can only have thoroughbred or quarter horse blood lines.
     Inclusion  of any other breed is a Pinto.  A paint bred to an arab,
     for  example,  could not be registered with the paint registry, but
     could be registered as a pinto.

    re.32
    
    remeber paints are a breed of their own,
    if they are arab and are multicolored, then they are pintos..
    
    ointos are color paints are a breed.
    
    

    Pinto registry has few restrictions.
    
    1.  To be registered in the "Pleasure" type portion, the horse should
    be of Arabian or Morgan type build
    
    2.  To be in the "Stock" type section, they should be of quarter
    type build (I think they include hunter types here also.
    
    3.  To be in the "English(? can't remember for sure) they should
    be of Saddlebred build.
    
    All of the above the horse should not show "draft horse
    characteristics" or "pony" characteristics" or "Appaloosa
    characteristics".  The minimum height for the above is 56" (14 hands).
    I remember these because I have a 1/2 Arab who is around 14 hands
    depending on how long her feet are and she wears size 1 shoes(BIG
    feet)--the inspector commented that she kind of demonstrated "pony" and
    "draft" characters but she still passed inspection. 
    
    The Pinto registry does have a section for ponies (under 14 hands).
    And there are some rules about cross registration for offspring
    from the horse section and pony section (but can't remember what
    they are).

re:< Note 100.35 by FRAGLE::PELUSO >

    
>    And do you know how much/what % QH and TB a Paint needs to have,
>    if any?
    

	 Since a  paint can only have QH or TB breeding, any combination
     of the two totalling 100% is acceptable.  You must be able to prove
     that the parents are  QH and/or TB (i.e. registered).

	 As far  as  double  registering  paint/pinto  is  concerned, it
     really  only  makes any difference at all for breeding stock.  What
     it  buys you is the ability to register a foal with the appropriate
     registry.   For  example, if you have a double registered stallion,
     and  you  breed him to a (registered) saddlebred mare, the foal may
     be  registered as a pinto.  (note that if the foal has no color, it
     may  only  be registered as breeding stock.) Likewise, if you breed
     that same horse to a QH or TB mare, the foal may be registered with
     the  Paint  association.  If the mare is not a registered anything,
     the foal cannot be registered (no proof of heritage, therefore, you
     can't prove where it should be registered).

	There is no benefit to double registering geldings.

	 Source of  information:  Sister  who  had  a  double registered
     Paint/Pinto stallion.

    
    Boy this note has gotten crazy!
    
    For starter, my qualifications are that I've been secretary of
    the New England Pinto Horse Association for 5 of the last 6 years.
    I have shown my double registered gelding  at Pinto shows for
    all of those years.
    
    My Paint rules are foggy but I can clearify the Pinto registration
    rules.
    
    There are 4 types of Pintos:
    
    Pleasure Type - exhibiting Morgan or Arab charateristics.
    
    Saddle Type   - exhibiting Saddlebred or Tennessee walker
    characteristics
    
    Stock Type    - exhibiting Quarter Horse characteristics.
    
    Hunter Type   - exhibiting TB characteristics. The racing type
    Quarter horses fit in this category.
    
    The Pinto Horse Association of America has a Pony registery also. The
    pony registry is for any animal that does not meet the 14 hand height
    requirement for the horse registry.  Ponies are also typed using the
    above 4 types (Hackney are saddle type, etc.)
    
    There is also a Miniature horse registry. A miniature horse must be 
    bred from two other minis.  Breeding from non-miniature parents cannot
    be registered in the miniature registry.  There are also height
    restrictions for miniature registration.
    
    Breeds that are *NOT* acceptable outcrosses with Pintos are any animal
    of Draft breeding, any animal of Appaloosa breeding and any animal
    of warm blood breeding.
    
    Animals with the appropriate color can be registered under the hardship
    clause.  Stallions have some restrictions.
    
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Paints
    
    As for Paints? THe color requirements are less strict for Paints and 
    Paint horses must have Paint, TB or QH bloodlines.  Percentages are notthat 
    important.  Any Paint bred to a solid TB or solid QH is registerable as
    those two breeds are acceptable outcrosses.  
    
    I have to say that I've seen a couple Paints that looked like they had
    a heavy dose of Morgan or Arab blood, and they had high knee action...
    
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A word of caution when breeding to acceptable out crosses.  Atleast
    with the Pinto Registry the outcross animal must be registerd with 
    the association. I don't know why (more bucks maybe) but it is
    required.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Reasons for double registry also include showing privileges.  I found
    the PInto shows offered more of the classes I was looking for. I have
    a great time showing amateur and english classes.  Pinto shows have
    more of the english flat classes and jumping classes I was looking for.
    
    If you think you have a good animal, its nice to be able to work towards
    awards.  I've gotten 3 ROM's with my gelding and we're still having
    fun!
    
    Some of the previous notes had correct information but not complete.
    I just tried to give more complete information.  
    
    If any one wants more information I have the Pinto rule book, and
    access to the Paint rule book. Feel free to send mail.
    
    
    
    

    Does anyone have the dates of the New England Pinto shows for this
    year yet?
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen

    I have the list that came with my N.E. Pinto Journal.  I'll see if I
    can dig it out at home.  I know the first one is toward the end of May.
    The 27th and 28th I think. 
    
    Caroline
    
    P.S. Got any extra trailer space?  HA HA!  

    I don't have a trailer, and my mother's got the horse!  I have been looking
    for a Paint or a Quarter horse mare for myself but I haven't brought
    one home yet. 
    
    The mares that I am really interested in are all in foal.  I don't
    want a foal right now but I do want a mare to breed to my mother's
    stallion in a year or two.
    
    Thanks for the reply
     

Here is the 1989 New England Pinto Horse Association show schedule 
(from February 1989 Pinto Round-UP):

May 14 --------------- Wilbraham, MA.  JUDGE:  Lenny Roy
                                               Jefferson, MA

June 24 -------------- Spencer, MA.    JUDGE:  Patricia Lezaca Seavey
                                               Ft. Lauderdale, FL
                                       JUDGE:  Guy Foltz Jr.
                                               Ft. Wayne, IN

June 25 -------------- Spencer, MA.    JUDGE:  Carol Craig
                                               Crown Point, IN
                                       JUDGE:  Conni Grubbs
                                               Conydon, IN

September 16 --------- Oneco, CT       JUDGE:  Margie Mayes
                                               Roachdale, IN
                                       JUDGE:  Eugene Mayes
                                               Roachdale, IN

September 17 --------- Oneco, CT       JUDGE:  Woodie Marshall
                                               Washington, KY
                                       JUDGE:  Kandi Alexander
                                               Alexandria, IN

1989 Pinto U.S. National Championship Horse Show  July 25-29,
at the New York State Fairgrounds, Syracuse New York.

Good luck this show season to all fellow Pinto people!

I will be attending the Pinto Show in Spencer Ma.  I'll have only my horse.
I might be convinced to pick up another depending on location.

Let me know.

Dani
 

    Does anyone know about how long it takes it to get your horse
    registered with the Pinto Registry?
    
    Thanks
    

    
    It shouldn't take long but they are still working out the bugs from
    their move to Texas.  It's taking months and months for some folks
    last year.  I think it's normally 6 weeks.
    
    Dani
    

    Does anyone know a Paint mare by the name of Clegg Bars Kari?  A
    friend of mine is interested in her but she has been bought back
    by the same owner twice and now she is a little hesitant about her.
    
    Kari is a 6 year old red roan, blaze 4 white stockings, approximately
    15.2 and at one time was owned by Dick Townsend and sold back to
    Windsong Acres (Karen Moore Robidoux).
    
    Any info would be appreciated.
    
    Thanks
    
    K.

    
    My Nashville Encore mare just had her first foal.  The Sire is McCue's
    Gyspy Bar.  She had a stud colt, tobiano and I think he will be
    a buckskin color but I'm not certain until he loses his baby hair.
    He has a wide blaze down his face with the rest being color.
    His forelock is black and the mane is white.
    He has color on his chest, hips, rump and down his hind legs.  His
    tail is jet black, he has four white legs and the rest of his body
    is white.  He has two watch eyes.
    
    Mother and son are doing fine.
    
    Are there anymore 1989 paint babies out there? 
    
    Julie

    Are any of you going to the paint show in Skowhegan, Maine on May
    27 and 28?  The show is combined with the Buckskin show.  This
    is an A.P.H.A approved show. There will be 2 judges, one for saturday
    and the other for Sunday. I hope to see some of you there.
    
    Julie

    I am planning to attend the Skowhegan Show with my Buckskin Quarter
    Horse, Shamus Showoff. I am relatively new at showing (last year
    was my first full year), this year I am following the Buckskin circuit
    around New England. I have never been to the Skowhegan Fairgrounds
    and have heard the the show arena is O.K., but the stalls leave
    something to be desired. Can anyone confirm this? 
    
    I have not received a show program from the Buckskin folks - have the
    Paint people received their programs? Hope to see you at the show
    and in the ribbons. Good Luck!
    
    Dave :^)
            

    
    	The show arena at Skowhegan is nice - under a roof - with  
    open sides (nice when the weather is not cooperating).  But the
    stalls are mostly AWFUL... They have not been kept up, maintained
    or looked after at all.  If I were going there for an overnight
    show I would plan on taking an extra sheet of plywood and some 
    nails - maybe a few boards - definately a stall guard.  Depending
    on which barn you end up in the stalls aren't great.  I have the
    "luxury" of living only an hours drive away - so we show off the
    trailer...  but its only fair to say to someone coming from "away"
    that they need to be prepared for most anything.
    

    Holly is right, it depends on which stall you get that will determine
    how good they are.  I think the show arena is nice also.  With the
    roof, it allows spectators as well as the competitors to stay somewhat
    dry.  I haven't seen a show program either, I've been expecting
    to see one in our N.E.P.H.C. newsletter but I haven't come across
    one.  
    
    I will not be showing but I will definitely be there.  I hope to
    meet some of you folks.
    
    Julie

    Did anyone go to the show at Oneco last weekend?  I went to my first
    Paint show there last weekend.  I went to watch my mother's colt.
    
    Karen

    Hi, I am a friend of Candy Wetherbee's of Beaumeadow Farm in Auburn,
    NH.  She is having an open barn on May 28 from 10:00 am until 6:00
    pm.  She is located at 22 Wilson Crossing Road, right off Rt 121
    in Auburn, NH.  Her phone # is 603-483-2098.   She has several paints
    and pintos available for sale.  Various ages, sexes, etc.  Call
    for complete sales list.
    
    Nancy

    Does anyone have directions on how to get to Skowhegan from Northern
    Ma. or Southern N.H.?  I would like to go up to watch but I understand
    it is quite a ride.
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen	 

    
    Skowhegan is north of Waterville, and there is an exit off I95
    that will drop you with hop of the fairgrounds...  Check your
    maps (mine are in the car).  Should have a driving time from say
    Portsmouth, NH of 3 and a half hours (going the speed limit).
    	
    So... its the Maine Turnpike (which ends in Augusta)/I95 to
    Skowhegan...  The Fairgrounds are off the main drag (and there is
    only one) in town!
    

    re: 100.58
    
    It was exactly 3 1/2 hours (including picking up my sister in Portland
    on the way) it was a very pretty ride.
    
    Image did very well, he won his 2 year old halter class and went
    Grand both days.
    
    

    Is anyone going to North Hampton this weekend?  Is this the Paint
    O Rama?  There should be some real nice horses there this weekend,
    I wish I could go...
    
    

    Would anyone have the directions to Spencer for the Pinto show this
    weekend?  Also, are the halter classes in the morning?
      
    Thanks
    
    KJ

    
    Thanks Kiirja!  Did you ride your beast at the AHAM Fun show?  If
    so how was she?  Hope you are enjoying her.
    
    P.S. (To anyone out there) is it true that the halter classes are
    held at night at the (or this particular) Pinto Shows?
    
    KJ

    I have gone to about 5 Paint shows this year and have seen the most
    beautiful riding outfits.  I asked a young woman at the show in
    Stratham last weekend where she got hers and she said that a woman
    in Connecticut made them for her.  She was in a hurry so I didn't
    get the name of the woman.  Does anyone know of anyone in the MA/NH
    area who makes Western riding outfits?  I have been out of it so
    long I don't know anyone anymore.
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen

    Karen,
    
    I had heard a rumor that Nancy, originally of "My Nancy Originals", had
    married or is somehow associated with Randy Cutbirth who used to be
    around Somers, CT. I've been away from showing for 4 years at least,
    but that is what I heard.
    
    My Nancy Originals used to make some beautiful (though very expensive)
    custom show outfits for people all over the U.S.
    
    Maybe someone else has more info?
    
    Good luck,
    
    Linda

    
    Does anyone have the classlist/timetable for the Pinto Nationals
    this week?  I was wondering when the 2 year old stallions were showing.
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen

    I think I found "the" Nancy Originals in the Western Horseman magazine.
    I think her name is Nancy Oeltz from Suffield Connecticut.  Could
    this be her new married name?  How many Nancy's could there be in
    Connecticut who make riding outfits!
    
    Karen

    Karen,
    
    that's her!
    
    

    Is anyone showing their Paint this weekend at Stratham?  Eternally
    Sheik is showing up here this weekend and I have never seen him
    in the flesh and am looking forward to seeing him.
    
    KJ

    where is stratham?  

    Stratham, NH at the "Centerton Farm", Frying Pan Lane (off Route 108).

    Centerton Farm, in Stratham, NH.
    
    Karen

    alittle bit more:
    Centerton Farm off of Rt 108, Stratham NH
    495 North, to 95 North to 108...
    just around Portsmouth NH area.
    
    

    The paint registration only accepts horse with paint,quarter horse,or
    thorobred parents, whereas the pinto registration accepts any horse
    of any breed with the correct coloration. Obviously pintos would
    not breed true as a particular breed type.
    Sandy
    

one more time... 

Pinto does not accept all breeds. It will not accept warm blood or draft horse
crosses.  When a horse is registered as a pinto it gets typed. THe four types
are Hunter, Stock, Pleasure, Saddle.  I won't go into the specifics of each
type as I'm sure many of you can figure it out. Anyway, breeders are encouraged
to breed within the types, so that saddlebreds are bred to saddlebreds, morgans
to morgans etc.

As for not finding quality pintos...?  I suspect you weren't looking in the 
right places. It also depends on what kind you are looking for.  I happen to 
have a very nice hunter type which has done *very* well in the years that 
we were showing. (I won't list credits but we do have 3 ROM's).  In New England
though there are mostly sock and pleasure types and there are some high 
quality animals.  Hunter and Saddle types are much harder to find in this
area.

If you're still looking for Pinto registration application papers let me
know.  I'll be secretary for N.E. Pinto for another couple months and will
try to get my hands on some forms.

BTW - The annual general membership meeting  for N.E. Pinto will be held in
Lowell on Nov 18.  For more details send me mail.

    Introducing First Class Image to stand at stud at J-Lin Acres.
    
    Sorrel/Overo coming 3 years old, 15 hands.
    
    5 Grands and 6 Reserves as a 2 year old in his first year showing
    in halter.
    
    Won numerous 2 year old pleasure classes (4 I think).
    
    5th at the Pinto Nationals.
    
    He is an own son of First Class, the All time leading Paint halter
    stallion with over 600 halter points.  First Class Image is the
    only son of First Class on the East Coast.
    
    508-234-5270 J-Lin Acres

For those folk who would like to double regiser thier Paint animals, or have
unregistered color animals, the PInto registration is running an incentive 
program Nov-Dec (ie. it's cheaper than usual).

Please send me mail if you'd like the forms.

danielle

                        NEPHC SHOW SCHEDULE FOR 1990
                              (tentative)
    
    
    
    APRIL 28,29    Falls Creek Farm, Oneco, Ct.
                   One judge each day
    
    May 19,20      Skowhegan, Maine (sponsored by Maine Buckskin)
                   One judge each day
    
    June 16,17     Northampton Mass. Paint-O-Rama
                   Two judges Sat., one Sunday
    
    July 14,15     Centerton Farm, Stratham, NH
                   One judge each day
    
    August 4,5     Northampton, Mass Zone-O-Rama
                   Three judges each day.
                   Aug.4 pointed for NEPHC year-end points
    
    October 6,7    Centerton Farm, Stratham, NH
                   Paint-O-Rama and Futurity
                   Two judges Saturday, one Sunday

    Update to 100.78 
                                                                      
    1989 Awards:
    
    First Class Image was: 
    
    New England Pinto 2 year old Halter Champion
                               
    New England Paint Horse 2 year old Halter Champion
    
    Recipient of the 1989 Bold Sassaman Memorial Trophy
    
    If you would like to see pictures of him you
    can contact me at Merlan::Kjroy.
    

    
    SCRIBBLES MCGUIRE IS A ST. PATRICK'S DAY BABY!
    
    DOB 3/17/90 (Exactly on his due date)
    
    He is a dunn with star, snip and one white sock.  We haven't found
    anything else so far so it looks like he might be breeding stock.
    
    He is a good size guy weighing in at 75lbs.
                                          
                                           SCRIBBLES
                                          /    (APHA)
                          SCRIBBLES ABNER
                        /      (APHA)     \
                       /                   NITRO BARS ABBY
                      /                        (AQHA)
    SCRIBBLES MCGUIRE                          
                      \                    (I FORGOT)
                       \                  /
                        \ DELICATE HEARTS
                               (AQHA)     \RED SONNY DEE
                                               (AQHA)

    Is anyone going to the Paint Show this weekend 5/05 & 5/06 at Centerton
    Farm in Stratham, NH?  I'm going to watch the Halter Classes (I
    really don't know anyone in the Performance Classes) but it would
    be more fun to watch them if I knew someone riding in them.
    
    Karen

    I'm not going to the Paint show this weekend 5/5 & 5/6 in N.H. but I am 
    going to the Paint and Buckskin show the weekend of 5/19 & 5/20 at the 
    Skowhegan fair ground in Maine.  Is there anyone else going to this
    show?  
    
    I am bringing my Paint mare and she will be shown in a halter, hunter 
    under saddle and possible the western pleasure class.
    
    Hope to see some of you Paint lovers there.
    Julie

    I'm going to go to Skowhegan on the 19th if there are enough horses
    going up to defray the cost.  It is too expensive to go several
    hundred miles with only 1 horse.  (I just go to watch my mother's
    colt).  I went last year and picked up my sister in Portland and
    we had a blast.  If we go I'll look for your mare, what is her name?
    
    Karen

    
    Re:86  My mares name is B.M.F. Paper Chase.
    
    Julie
    
    

    whats the BMF for?  I've seen it elsewhere.
    
    michele

    It stands for Beau Meadow Farm.  The breeding farm where both Julie's
    horse and mine came from.  You came and looked at B.M.F. Luke
    Skywalker when I had him for sale a few months ago.  Candy Weatherbee
    the owner, prefaces the names of all the horses born on her farm
    with B.M.F.
    
    \Caroline

    RE.88
    
    Cute name, I'll look for you at Skowhegan if we go.  I have also
    been to Beau Meadow when I was looking for a Paint mare.  
    
    Karen

> Note 100.85 by DNEAST::KRAMER_JULIE >
>            -< Showhegan,Maine Paint/Buckskin Show 5/19 & 5/20. >-

>  I'm not going to the Paint show this weekend 5/5 & 5/6 in N.H. but I am 
>  going to the Paint and Buckskin show the weekend of 5/19 & 5/20 at the 
>  Skowhegan fair ground in Maine.  Is there anyone else going to this
>  show?  
    
>  I am bringing my Paint mare and she will be shown in a halter, hunter 
>  under saddle and possible the western pleasure class.
    
>  Hope to see some of you Paint lovers there.
>   Julie





I will be going to the Maine Paint/Buckskin Show, but I have one of the other
colored horses.......my Buckskin gelding, Shamus Showoff. I will also bringing
my yearling filly, Doc Dun Right. 

I hope we get a chance to meet and introduce ourselves as I have met several 
other "noters" over the course of the show season last year. Good Luck and hope
you see you "in the ribbons".

  Dave

    These are New England Paint Horse Association Shows, I couldn't
    find the Pinto Dates:
    
    5/06 & 5/07 Centerton Farm, Stratham NH
    
    5/19 & 5/20 Skowhegan Maine            
    
    6/16 & 6/17 Paint-O-Rama, Northampton, MA
    2 judges 16th, one judge the 17th
    
    7/14 & 7/15 Centerton Farm, Stratham, NH
    
    8/04 & 8/05 Zone-A-Rama, Northampton, MA
    3 judges each day
    
    10/16 & 10/17 Paint-O-Rama, NEPHC Futurity, Stratham, NH
    2 judges the 16th, one the 17th
    
    Hope to meet some of you there!
    
    Karen

I don't know if any of you are interested, but the parents of a friend of mine
are getting ready to move and have a number or pinto American Saddlebreds,
mostly yearlings, for sale.  Out of a colt crop of six or seven last year
they got spots on all but one.  The colts I've seen have been really nice.
The Batjers are an older couple with some horses that show promise.
Rivendel Farm is in Chester, N.H.  I don't have their number with me,
but if you're interested I can be reached at dtn 381-0889.  I'll make sure
I bring the number in from home.

				Liz

    Did anyone go to Skowhegan this weekend?  I had planned to go until
    I found out the show started at 7:30 and that was just a tad too
    early for me.
    
    How did everyone do?  I know there wasn't many Paints there, just
    enough on Sunday to have a Grand and Reserve Champion.
    
    I understand there were a lot of buckskins.
    
    KJ

    Does anyone have the dates of the New England Pinto Shows?
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen

I made it to the Skowhegan show....and survived the rain, cold and MUD!. The 
Paint turnout was very low. I believe at least half of the Paint classes were 
canceled and the remaining classes only had 2 or 3 entries. The Buckskin and 
open classes were good sized. This had to be one of the largest Buckskin turn-
outs for the Maine show. My "Bucky" didn't do very well on Sat., he is not a 
cold weather horse. Sunday we fared better. I was sorry that I did not meet any
"noters" at this show but perhaps at another time.

Dave D.

    Good day all,
    
    I'm mostly a reader to EQUITATION but am getting excited about a
    new addition to our family and wanted to share this with all of
    you horse lovers, particularly the paint people. 
    
    I ride english and have a Trakehner and a Thoroughbred currently.  
    One day while having a particularly interesting trail ride on board
    one of the big guys, I thought to myself how nice it would be to
    have a horse that I could really enjoy trail riding on.  Not that
    I don't like the battles of coming across new and scary things mind
    you, its just that its alot of work and sometimes you just want to
    spend a bit more time enjoying the ride - you know?
    
    Well enough thought.  After persuading my hubby that we could aquire
    another horse that we both could ride, the search began.  We started
    looking at quarter horses, appaloosas, crosses etc not really finding
    alot that had that "look" and was "bomb proof".  My shoer happend to
    be out and he shows paints and suggested some folks that raise paints
    that I should call.  Well one person led to another and so on and we 
    ended up finding a horse that wasn't actively for sale but...
    
    She is a Tobi, Dunn and White.  She isn't a loud Tobi though, most of
    the white crests her top line behind the flank and a bit on the neck.  
    She is only 3.5 years old (hubby will need to wait a year or so), been
    saddle broke (started cantering - oops I mean Loping) for about 6
    months but has the perfect outlook on life.  I've riden her 3 times 
    and each time we had to face many obstacles that my big guys would 
    have shot the moon over.  A heard of sheep (100+) being fed and 
    charging to the fence where we were riding by etc.  Her dad is a 
    Horse named Sunny Wells.  He is unfortunately dead now but was a 
    georgeous thing.  She is alot more horse than what we had original 
    wanted but has the potential to do Western Please and be competitive.
    She has several halter points currently.  She has the classic quarter 
    horse head and body and for me anyway, knocks my sox's off.  All 4 feet 
    are white to the body line.  
    
    Well we are vetting her next Monday and if all looks good (cross your
    fingers, toes etc) we will bring her home next Friday.  And then
    the fun begins.  Me who hasn't been in a Western saddle since I was
    (well forget the age) a long time! gets to become familiar with
    this style all over again.  Who knows, maybe I'll give up my english
    saddle and start hitting the Wester pleasure shows... Yeah right!
    
    Thanks for letting me share the new Mare with you and if you have
    any tips, Info on Paint shows etc, I'd love to hear from you!
    
    Karen

    Karen-
    
    Where did you get her from?  I have been looking for a mare, and just 
    have't found the right one yet....
    
    Have fun!
    
    Michele
    

    Re: 100.98
    
    It sounds like your found yourself a real nice little mare, hope
    she vets out sound for you.  I was looking for a Paint mare myself
    about a year ago and came across a QH that flipped my switch so
    I bought her (I think she really, really wanted to be a Paint) I
    must have looked at 25 Paint mares!   She is in foal to a Paint
    (sorrel/overo) for a March 91 foal!  My mother bought me a subscription
    to the Paint Horse Journal for Christmas and I already got the QH
    journal, and the QH Journal pales in comparison (picturewise) to
    the Paint Horse Journal!  There is just nothing like a gorgeous
    QH with color!  There is a Paint Show this weekend in Northampton,
    MA (6/16/ & 6/17).
    
    GOOD LUCK!
    
    Karen

    Re: .99  
    
    Hi Michele!  Nice personal name! We found out about the Mare from
    a man named George Craig.  He is in Stratton, Colorado and does
    nothing but raise paints.  His stud is named Simply Grand and he
    is just that!  The Mare is actually with some folks that train
    alot of Georges colts and raise some of their own.  We went to their
    place to see another of Georges horses and saw this Mare and well..
    Its now in the hands of our Vet...  Let me know how your search
    goes!  I love horse hunting don't you!
    
    Re: .100
                                                               
    Thanks for the reply Karen!  I never really thought about breeding
    to this Mare until you mentioned your mare was in foal.  In Colorado,
    it seems that the Overos are more popular than the Tobis.  I guess
    its the other way out in California.  Kinda funny but actually someone
    told me that when a halter judge is looking over 20+ horses that some
    times its hard to see through the loud color to the actual conformation
    and when a judge has little time, he just doesn't spend the time
    looking at the loud horses.  The white in the right spots can really
    cast an optical illusion on conformation.  Don't know if this is really
    true but it makes some sense.  Let me know how Mom is doing!
    
    Thanks again - I'll let you know what happens after Monday!
    
    Karen             

    RE: 100.98 
    
    How did everything go with vetting your mare out?  
    
    Karen

Hi Karen,

The mare did fine until the flexion tests.  On both fronts, instead of taking
3 or 4 off steps, she took more like 10 before she worked out of it.  My vet
reflexed her at the lower (pastern, fetlock area) again on both fronts to
isolate wether the problem may be up high or down lower and she did the same
thing except this time it took her about 15 steps to work out of it.  

According to my vet, on the back she shouldn't take any off steps at all during
the flexion test.  She was fine on the back right but took about 5 hip hike
type steps on the back left before she worked out of it.  

Soooo I don't know!  Kind of depressed but my Vet wants to recheck her in 
about a week.  Apparantly Monday afternoon some sheep got out and into the
pasture area where the mare was.  There was a bunch of people out trying to
corral them and get them back in their own area.  One sheep kept running
underneath the mare (who knows why) and she kicked at it several times to
get it out from under her.  She may have just stressed herself during all
this. 

My vet feels that if she is still off in a week and we are still real serious
about her that x-rays would be in order but I don't know.  There are certainly
alot of other horses out there, but just hard to find that "One" you know.

We are going back out Saturday.  I'm just not sure what to do if she is still
real off due to the flexion tests.  Any suggestions?

Karen 

    re:.103
    
    I agree with your thinking on going on with the X-rays if she won't
    vet on the flexion tests.  It is hard to find the "right" horse
    but there is more than one.  Sometimes early problems won't even
    show up on the x-rays until they are more progressed.  Let us know
    how you make out on the second vet check.
    
    KJ

    
    I have a question about  PINTO's ... and didn't see anything in
    this conference about this.......
    
    What are the qualifications to being registered as a Pinto?
    Someone once told me Paints had to have at least one registered
    either sire or dam......  is there any such need to be a registered
    pinto?   Or is it based clearly on markings?  if so what/how much
    markings.........
    
    Any info. would be greatly appreciated.......
    
    Nancy  (a horse of a different color????)
    

    Hi Nancy, from my experience (currently own my first Paint :-)
    a pinto can be of any breed and neither of its parents need be
    registered if you wish to register it as a hard-luck pinto.
    If the parents are registered it is easier and cheaper, but if
    not I think all you need to do is show proof of your horse's
    color and pay a rather large fee $200-$500?  (Other pinto people
    know the exact amount?)  
    
    A paint horse must be of Quarter Horse and/or Thoroughbred blood
    and I believe both parents must be registered as Paint and/or
    QH/TH.  
    
    A paint horse can be double registered as a Paint and Pinto, but
    a Paint horse cannot be double registered as a Paint and QH.  
    According to my instructor who raises QH, if a QH has too much
    white on it it cannot be reg. as a QH but can be reg as a Paint.
    
    Confusing aren't they?!  :-)  It took me a while after I got Luke
    to even figure out the difference between a Tobiano and an Overo! ;-)
    
    \Caroline
    
    
    

    Thanks kiirja for the notes you forwarded. 
    
    My next question would be... I read an earlier note.. (now that
    I'm in the right place) Some restrictions apply to a stallion, What
    might that be?   If neither parent are pinto's, so I guess it would
    be a hard-luck pinto, right?
    
    Nancy 
    

    
    I replyed to note 1330 asking about Pintos/Paints but there were
    no replys after my entry..and Im horrible w/ key words (they never
    work for me) and I need to know what is the difference between
    Pintos and Paints..I got the impression from note 1330 that there
    is a difference ..but I thought they were the same thing...Help!
    I have a pinto..I think or maybe he is a paint....thanks
    
    Louisa & Joey

    I believe this info is under the title "Paints,Paints,Paints" but
    I will answer your question anyway. A paint horse has either 2 paints
    for parents or a paint and a quarter horse, or a paint and a
    throughbred. I am not sure if a QH or TB with a lot of white can be
    registered or not. A pinto can be of several other breeds, registered
    in groupings according to type, ie. stockhorse, saddlehorse, or hunter.
    Sandy
    

    The note is 100, Paints, Paints, Paints :*)
    
    Sandy, 
    
    I believe if a QH has too much white, it can't be registered
    AQHA, but Paint/Pinto.  No idea about TB's.
    
    Louisa-
    
    It gets confusing and complicated, but there is alot of info in note
    100.  If you need more, let me know and I'll be glad to get it for you.
    A Pinto can be any of the recognized outcross breeds w/ enough color.
    A pinto can not be Draft, Appy or pony.  There are separate pony and
    mini divisions. 
    
    
    Michele

    
    
    wait a minute.....they changed the title......

    Is anyone planning on going to the Pinto show this weekend @ Oneco?
    
    I'll be there w/ my instructor and her herd of Paints and Pinto (she's
    got 3-5 babies....)
    
    Michele
    

    Michele,
    
    Where is Oneco?   
    
    Nancy

    Hmmmmm, good question Nancy.  I was there once before and got soo lost
    coming home in the dark......
    
    The show is at Falls Creek Farm, Oneco CT.  It is off 395.  We are only
    going for the morning, so hopefully we'll be able to follow the signs
    and not get lost again.
    
    Do you want to follow us down?

    
    Can't make it to CT on saturday, I have a lesson at 2 p.m. but
    maybe if you have a local show sometime... let me know.
    
    Nancy
    

    My parents stallion is going (he needs a tune-up) and I would love
    to go but Pop Warner has invaded my household.  If you watch the
    stallions he's a 3 year old (First Class Image).  There maybe one
    baby going.
    
    KJ

    Onenco is easy to find once you get off the hiway..
    
    its way out in the sticks (well i didnt find anything around anyway.)
    so dont forget anything.. 
    
    I like showing up there, its really really pretty out there!!!
    
    wendy o'
    
    
    
    

    re.1
    
    It is very pretty there and we went to a really nice restaurant
    when we stayed there last year.  Do you have idea what the heck
    that "movie" place is with all the stunts and crazy looking things
    is on the way into the Showgrounds?
    
    KJ

    
    YEA I THINK IT LIKE GOIN into a real life cowboy town, visting the old
    west. I heard they had gun fights etc... 
    
    Theres a resturant in that area??:^}
    
    What I havent fingured out it those signs there.. dont mind me i'm just 
    acting silly of something.. ?? strange..
    
    well if you need help at the horse shows/rider i'll come down..
    I dont mind that place..
    
    
    have fun and good luck.
    
    
    WEndy o'
    

    re:.116
    
    Was Jay Mele showing your parents stud???  

    Yes, he was, how did he behave?  I didn't get to go although
    my father went down yesterday and I understand he stood Grand under
    all 4 judges.  How did the babies do that you brought down?
    
    KJ

    I forgot to ask if anyone else has seen the Zebra on the windy,
    bumpy road into Oneco?  He was out last weekend because I asked
    my father and he saw (him/her) on the way to the showgrounds.
    
    KJ

    Thats great about your parents stallion.....he looked good (on
    saturday - we wern't there for the `fun' on sunday)!
    
    My instructor had a heck of a time with her babies( on sunday)......they 
    didn't want to stay clean.....and to be cooped up in a stall for the
    weekend.......forget it!  She said by sunday, they were ripping up the 
    stalls (fortunatly she had one per filly) and acting like crazy!  WHen
    she brought out her colored filly, she got away and ran around the
    ring.  DEspist this she placed 6th out of 11 babies.  She is a late may
    filly and still has some catching up to do.  Look for her next
    year....she's a real sharp filly!
    
    Her other 2 breeding stock babies, one came in 1st (palomino filly) and
    the other 2nd (chestnut w/ white legs, colt) out of 4.
    
    All three will be at Centerton October 6 and 7.  

    Aren't babies a blast?!!  I will look for them at Centerton.  The
    Futurity was huge last year, I imagine it will probably be big again
    this year.  All the big farms come to that show.   The weanling
    class was real big.  I hope it isn't as cold as it was last year,
    I froze my toes off.  What is your instructors name so I can look
    for her?
    
    KJ

    
    					 AT STUD IN 1991
    
    					FIRST CLASS IMAGE
    
	- 1989 & 1990 OVERALL New England Paint Halter Stallion
    	- 1990 NEPtHA 3 Yr. Old Halter Champion
    	- 1989 NEPtHA 2 Yr. Old Halter Champion
          Points in Western Pleasure
    
    	  First foals are due in March 91.
    	
    	  Videos available.
    
	  Private Treaty		Standing @ J-Lin Acres
                                        (508) 234-5270
    
          Owned by Richard & Beverly Tardif
    	  (508) 682-7447
 

    My mare is due to foal around the 11th of this month.  Sometimes it
    seems like this past 11 months flew by, other times it seems like it
    dragged.  Anyone have any spells out their to cast on my mare to make
    sure her foal has color?  (Only kidding!)
    
    I'm hoping for 4 ears when I look in her stall next!
    
    Karen

    Its even more fun when you are there to watch the foal be born!
    My foal was born 2 years ago, I spent friday and saturday night
    going out every hour, but nothing was there.  Sunday morning she
    was laying down but didn't seem to be ready.  By about 10 she
    was walking contstantly, in and out of her stall and around her
    paddock.  I figured that was her way of positioning the foal so
    I kept an eye on her not wanting her to foal outside.  I went out
    around noon to wrap her tail, and as I was doing that, her water 
    broke.  I put her in the stall, ran in and called the vet and came
    back out to see a little head and two long legs already out.  She
    was still wrapped in placenta so I uncovered her face and she 
    started breathing!!  Talk about a great experience!  I thought Rosie
    was awful nice to foal on a sunny sunday afternoon so I could be 
    there!  I hope you are so lucky!
    

    We have had two fillies born at the barn so far.  Mas Satin Slipper 
    is a breeding stock chestnut w/ some neat white markings.  She was born 
    Feb 15th/16th.  
    
    The other filly is a loud palomino and white tobiano.  No name yet,
    but we'll take suggestions.  She was born March 16th.  Last year Lacey
    was several weeks late.  This year I think she was about 10 days. 
    Every day when turned out, she'd book around the field and jump a stone
    wall.  when turned out Friday she slamed on the breaks and looked at
    the wall for a few minutes, then proceded to walk around it.  
    
    	Sire:  Satin Gold
    	Dam:  Lacey (not sure if it is her registered name)
    	
    
    There is another palomino QH mare due around March 24th.  I have a
    feeling this one will be colored (because she is for sale).
    
    Another mare is due in april (I forgot who)  and Comet (loud
    chestnut and white Pinto) is due the end of August. 
    
     
    

    re:100.127 How accomodating!  I should be so lucky.  Yesterday would
    have been perfect, it was so gorgeous.  
    
    .128, I can relate to a madwoman flying around the paddock, when I put
    my mare out Saturday she was running and jumping like her tail was on
    fire.  I tried to explain to her that pregnant women usually don't make
    such spectacles of themselves but she wouldn't buy it.  I unwrapped the
    bottom of her tail yesterday figuring that the way things happen for me
    she will foal and gross out her gorgeous silver tail.  (I have kept it
    nice and neatly wrapped for the past two weeks.)
    
    We have had one foal born at the barn on 2/13, an adorable chestnut QH
    colt.  He is really cute. 
    
    Still waiting...
    

    send me mail if any are for sale :*}
    
    
    
    		wendy o'
    
    

    Re .128 -  Gold Nugget or Gold Lacey Nugget or Satin Gold Nugget 
    
    (insert dam/sires other names if appropriate)
                                                       
    
    Lynne

    I too have been thinking up some names for my baby.  My mare has the
    worst name in the world.  Maid By Favorite Day (gross!).  At least we
    can work with stallion's name.  Can't you just imagine being run away
    with and saying WHOA, MAID BY FAVORITE DAY...  
    
    I like the name Spittin Image if it is a colt, and I'm kind of
    undecided for a filly.  My husband wants to name it Latex!!  
    
    Karen

    The paint in the barn where I boarded was named "Dutchboy"!
    
    Lynne

    re.last
    
    yea i wonder how many people *actually caught that one :*}
    
    
    while we are talking paints * does anyone know any paint trainers or
    someone in paints heavily that lives in Penn.? I know its a big state..
    Anyone know anything about a Ternece (terry) scrubb in Hollis??
    
    
    
    	wendy o'
    
    

    When my husband gave me the Latex that's what I said!!  What's next
    Dutchboy, Weatherbeater?  I have already seen a horse named Sherwin
    Williams.
    
    Trainers in Pennsylvania:
    
    Mark and Laura Smith
    Red Rose Paint Farms
    
    Meadowood Farms
    George Martin
    
    I can't remember what towns they are from off the top of my head but I
    will get the information and post it here.  Mark and Laura Smith are
    very nice and excellent trainers.  Meadowood Farm owns Eternally Sheik,
    he was 2 year old world champion last year, 2 and 3 year old Pinto
    World Champion and I don't know if he went to the Paint World
    Championships in 1990.
    
    Karen

Does anyone know of a source for Paint Tennessee Walkers or Paint Missouri 
Foxtrotters?  My wife and I have been looking for either for a while now (with
little success, unfortunately).  My wife would like something with some color,
and she thought that it might be nice to have a painted one.

Ed..

    re: nugget
    
    THat's similar to last years palomino b.s filly.
    
    re:  latex.....hmmmm interesting, maybe if it was a black and white?
    I like spittin' image for a colt.
    
    re:  .136
    
    Ed....you'd be looking for a pinto.  I just joined NEPtHA (My friend is the
    pres.).  Pinto is divided into 4 types; stock, pleasure...I forget the
    other two, but there are members who have saddlebred pinto's for that
    flashy hunt seat type showing.  Why don't you and your wife come to one
    of the shows this year, you may see something you'd like (I posted the
    schedule a few notes back).   And in the intreim  I'll check around and
    see if there are some colored walking horses around. 

    
    	Ed, I know you told me you'd travel, so here's a few to try;
    
    		Thornridge Farms, Skillman NJ (609)466-3869 ask
    	for Ronnie Green
    
    		Hillsdale Farm Clearville, PA (814) 767-9622
    	Frank or Lorraine Eberly
    
    	I have more colored stallion listings at home, so let me
    	know if you want more names!!
    
    	Sherry
    

    I know of a farm in Methuen that had some colored Missouri Fox Trotters
    last year.  They can't be registered as Pintos though.  They are the
    comfiest horses I have ever ridden.  I can check and see if they have
    any for sale. 
    
    To get back to the trainers in Pennsylvania, Red Rose Paint Farms is in
    Stevens, PA, and Meadowood Farm is in Jersey Shores.  
    
Karen

    KAren-
    
    How come they can be registered as pintos?
    
    M

    re:  .139
    
    I think because they are "alternate gait" horses.  I'll have to check
    on it.
    
    Still no baby today...
     

    Well, my mare finally decided to foal on 3/25/91.  She had an elegant
    little colt.  He is a chestnut with four white stockings and a blaze
    face and as far as I can tell he is a breeding stock.  Beautiful head,
    long neck, long forearm, he still looks like a little guy though, about
    50 lbs.  He is friendly although he was a tad ticked off after he got
    his shots. 
    
    Dallas was very nice about the whole thing until the vet suggested I
    blanket him because it was so raw outside and he was shivering.  She
    had a hissy fit when he had the blanket on.  I had to take it off him. 
    He looked so silly, she was probably mad because she thought he looked
    ridiculous too.  She was okay once I took it off.  She's being a good
    mother for her first foal.
    
    Karen
      

    Congratulations Karen and Dallas!
    
    M

    Congratulations!  Did you get to see the birth?  If you haven't
    done so already, I would suggest getting a heat lamp for the stall,
    these nights have been rather chilly and the last thing you want is
    the little guy catching a cold!  If you need to borrow one, I have
    one, just let me know.
    
    Linda
    
    

    re: -1 Thank you for your offer of the heat lamp.  He is doing well,
    she actually covers him up with hay if she thinks he is chilly.  My
    father (Capt. on Lawrence Fire Dept.) is a little touchy on heat lamps. 
    I'm sure it is his Fire Dept. background, so hopefully it will stay as
    warm as it has been.  
    
    I can certainly relate to how my horse feels about feeding that baby! 
    He is always after her bopping her around!   After breastfeeding my son
    who NEVER had enough I can sympathize with Dallas!
    
    I think I'm gonna call him Austin...
    
    I don't know what I will register him as yet.  I'll have to think on
    that one.
    
    Karen

    My boyfriend is a fireman so I know how you feel!  When I had the
    lamp in the barn, I only had it on when someone was home and when
    I really needed it, when it was cold and rainy.  I was lucky cause
    my foal was born on May 7th, so I didn't need it much.  Good luck
    with the new guy.

    
    	If you think the stall is cold, hang blankets over all
    	openings (if you haven't already) My Morgan's mom had a
    	filly on Valentine's day, this is what they did, and the
    	stall stayed really warm!
    
    	Sherry
    

    re: -1, that is a good idea although what I would like to do now is
    wrap the blankets around my mares head and choke her!  She has decided
    that she doesn't want me touching her anymore and I can't even put her
    halter on.  I can touch the baby and pat him but I can't put her halter
    on.  She's probably still ticked off at me for putting the blanket on
    the foal.  
    
    I spent my entire lunch hour trying to put her stupid halter on so I
    could put them in another stall to clean theirs out.   Their stall is
    10 X 20 so she has plenty of room to get away from me and keep circling
    like a shark!  She has never looked better either, I kept on riding her
    right up until this past month and she looks fabulous.  It would be
    nice to give her a good brushing though, I always hated to go see a
    foal and his mother's tail was all yucky and her back legs too, now I
    can relate!
    
    Does anyone know who the APHA inspector is in New England?  My foals
    markings are just too close to call and I think I may have to get the
    inspector to look at him.
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen
    
    

    I have N.E.Pt.H.A. raffle available.
    
    	Grand Prize:  $1000 Circle Y Western Show Saddle
    		      (or exchange for an English saddle @ Allies Tack
    		       shop)
    
    Chances are $1.00.  Saddle will be on display at the NEPtHA booth
    at the Equine Expo.  Drawing April 21, 1991.  This raffle will 
    benefit the NEPtHA Club.
        
    If you'd like to take a chance on this georgeous saddle, please
    contact me at FRAGLE::PELUSO or call DTN: 234-4678.
    
    (NOTE:  Moderators I couldn't find any rules which said this wouldn't 
	comply w/ noting policy, if so, feel free to delete)

	Thanks-

	Michele

    
    Another new baby this a.m., my parents are in Florida so I have to go
    over to the barn at lunch and find out what the sex is.   I do know it is
    colored.
    
    Karen

    Does anyone have the February `91 issue of the Paint Horse Journal?
    
    
    re: Karen-
    Let us know how she is and the color!
    
    M
    

    -.1 I have that issue of the Paint Horse Journal.
    
    The foal is a sorrel overo colt and he is huge, he was still wobbling
    around at lunchtime, not as precocious as my colt was.  Also just found
    out that the sire is 5th in the nation for PtHA halter.  He didn't even
    show at all the shows!
    
    Karen    

    Ok... well It looks as tho the people that my mare are taking her
    back to Penn to be bred and they will pick up one of their paints
    for me to ride,train and show... :*}
    
    anyways anyone know of any *paint breed shows i can go watch, I hope
    to have this mare on the show circuit in 30-60 days :*}
    
    also I'm looking for any (jsut a couple) of recent paints mag i can
    look at just to see whats being shown... (past issues within the past 6
    months) I can also return them if need be!!
    
    
    	wendy o'
    

    hi I am new to the paints... my qh mare delivered a big bay colored
    filly in late feb..The sire is Tarawoods Robin and is at jay mele's
    I have bred back to Robin as I sold the filly and since her
    birth have grown to like her multi-coloring,very flashy, so I might
    keep the next one....
    I also have a 2 yr. aqha gelding from her and The New Image (aqha) and
    he is for sale .....
    If any one is interested jay has some new babies and some are for sale.
    

    Jay Mele -j-lin acres said he could inspect your baby. try him at 
    508-234-5270...
    sharon f.

    
    Wendy do you know which stallion in Penn. that your mare is being bred
    to?  There are some really nice ones there.
    
    Kj

    my mare is going to a quarter horse breeder, not a paint studd.. i
    think he has "SEEKER " horse (studs) i never heard or em actually.. but
    the owner swears by him, the paint mare he is bringing back i dont know
    what shes got in her, all he said if he brings her back and i dont like
    her, he can ship her back and i can take my pick out of the other two..
    (lfes tuff for him , huh? must be nice>>
    
    they got this mare for a song, (my palomino mare, and i'm actually
    kinda mad, becasue they got a H*ll of a deal,
    i also found out cillie had skipper w lines also..
    good good foundation lines, i didnt think she had all that.
    
    
    anyways thats all o know on the stud, if you know the seeker lines let
    me know, he also needs to be researching his lines (the studds) like 6
    generations back i dont think that really got thru to him tho'
    
    oh well. i just hope things go good for cillie.. he wants me to pick
    the stud (out of two he has chosen) and i will then trace the lines
    myself to keep my "cillie safe"
    
    wendy o'
    
    

    re: .155
    
    Thanks, he did see the baby and he couldn't tell either!  I have to
    wait and see.
    
    KJ

    
    
    Has anyone heard of the SEEKER bloodlines???
    
    I dont know if its AQHA or APHA???
    
    
    		wendy o'
    
    

    
    Wendy, could it be Seeka?  As in Seeka Soul?  AQHA.
    
    Karen

    Does anyone know what the "Area" Championship show is in Oneco,
    Connecticutt?  Is it a championship show for New England or a zone, or
    I don't have a clue...  
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen

    Hi KAren-
    
    The NEPtHA is having an `Area Championship' show in Oneco September
    14 and 15.  I think area refers to the zone - the rule book says you
    cant have 2 area shows w/in 350 miles of @ other on the same day.
    
    Michele 

    I need the advice of all you experts.  Is there a difference
    between "paint" and "pinto"?  I had a slight argument during
    a trivia game about what kind of horse Little Joe rode in
    Bonanza.  I said pinto, he said paint.  I said same difference.
    
    Thanks
    
    linda
    

    Yeah, there's a difference. "paint" is English and "pinto" is Spanish.
    
    Seriously though, there is a difference between the paint and pinto
    registries(and breed organizations). Both registries are interested in
    the same patterns of coat color(s) but the Paint(I think...) accepts
    only horses of particular bloodlines(Quarterhorse...I think) while the
    other registry takes(or used to) any horse of the appropriate coat pattern.
    
    I may have Paint and Pinto reversed but that's the way I remember it.

    The horse Little Joe rode in Bonanza was always referred to as a Paint.
    He was a piebald (black and white) with very loud markings and  the
    distinctive look of a Quarter Horse. His name was Cochise...okay, my
    explaination for remembering this is that I was about 13 yrs old and
    had a piebald myself, and thought Cochise was just beautiful. (still
    do find oddly colored horses attractive).
    

    Paint and Pinto are both spotted horses.  A Paint is a Pinto but a
    Pinto isn't necessarily a Paint.  Paint horses must be part
    Quarterhorse or part Thoroughbred.  Pinto horses just have to be
    spotted.  And, according to my dictionary, piebald is also just
    a spotted horse, any color.
    
    And I'm sure there's more to the definition, but I think that
    covers the basics.  
    

    note 100.16 has very good definitions of a Paint and Pinto.  In short, 
    Paint is a breed (like a TB, QH) and a Pinto is a `color' breed (like
    palomino, dun).

    Little Joe's paint in Bonanza had to be destroyed after
    some sicko sliced him up with a knife.....in the early
    shows, it's a black & white paint, but in the later shows,
    the color is dark brown & white, almost, but not quite
    the same.
    
    L-  

    My parents Quarter horse mare just went 3 for 3!  She just had her 3rd
    foal ON HER DUE DATE!  You can set your watch by this mare.  She is
    quite reliable.  Even as a maiden she went to the day.
    
    She had a handsome colt.  There are lots of babies out there this year. 
    This is the 3rd out of 4 at my barn.
    
    Karen

    I wouldn't count on her "always" delivering on the predicted date. A
    friend of ours had such a mare. For 9 years, she delivered right on the
    predicted date. So they became complacent about monitoring her until a
    day or two before she was due. They always supervise foalings in case
    of a difficult delivery. You guessed it. The 10th year she foaled
    a week early! They "discovered" the foal in the morning. Boy, were they
    embarassed! And lucky that there were no complications

    I'd probably have gotten complacent after 9 foals too!   This mare gets
    an "I'm-going-to-foal-tonight" puss on her face that is priceless.
    
    Karen

    Karen we've had 2 foals with one more due in a week or so. 
    
    foal #1:  beautiful solid chestnut filly with a tiny white star
    	      and the longest legs I've ever seen and a peppy attitude.
    	      She'll be a breeding stock Paint.  Foaled April 3rd I think.
    
    foal #2:  nice paint colt with good color.  He'll be light like his
    	      dad.  He's also got long legs and a type-y stock build.
    	      His name was waiting for him:  Gold Bar None.  Foaled:
    	      late Easter night.
    
    Foal #1 needs a name folks:
    
    	Sire: Lee's Goodtime (I think that 's how it's spelt, but close
     	      enough).  Wnat to have either Good or Time in name.
    
    	Dam:  Gypsey's Lacey Lady (No `Lady' names please)
    
    
    	We liked `For A Goodtime Call' !!!!!
    
    	Michele

I'm not feeling particularly imaginative, but there's always..


Gypsey Rose Lee

    I like both of those names!  There have been 3 foals born at my barn so
    far this year.  Two Quarter horse colts and one Paint colt.  We are
    waiting for one more baby (we are hoping this one will be a filly to
    break up the monotony) due in early May.  A woman bought this mare in
    foal (didn't know it) and when she had the horse vetted out here, the
    vet said she was in foal.  She is a Paint in foal to a Paint.
    
    One of the QH was born on or around Valentine's Day and his name is
    Valentino!  I love his name. 
    
    Is anyone planning on going to Oneco for the Paint show this weekend? 
    
    I think I have to go to Pennsylvania so I don't think that I will be
    able to make it.
    
    Karen

    We'll be at Oneco for Saturday only and next weekend we'll be at
    Wilbraham.  Due to friend's weddings and baby showers I won't be showing 
    at any of the other May Paint Shows :^(.
    
    Anyone else going?
    

    The last mare in foal at our barn had the loudest, wildest looking
    black & white overo filly I have ever seen.   
    
    She looks like a jigsaw puzzle.   This is this mares first baby and she
    is really tiny, the mother is only 14.2 and the baby scoots right under
    her belly, with clearance.
    
    Karen
    

    \
    
    black and white....my favorite!  she must be wild looking!

    Is anyone going to the Paint/Appaloosa/Buckskin show this weekend in
    Northhampton?  
    
    Karen
    

	My wife and I will be there showing our two Buckskin Geldings, "Cool 
Kansas Kid" & "Shamus Showoff". Hope to see some fellow "noters" there. ;-)

Dave D.

    I'm going to the APHA World Show in Fort Worth, Texas in July.  Are any
    other Paint people going?  What other farms should I plan on visiting
    while I'm out there?   I can't wait to go and check out the outfits,
    the horses, etc. etc.  I'm going to be there for the Freestyle reining,
    and the last go round of the halter futurities and the cutting
    sweepstakes!  
    
    I am psyched!
    
    Karen

    Yankee Paint Horse Classic
    
    	July 26 at 8:00am
    
    	PLace:  Towsend's Training Farm, Pembroke, NH
    
    	Judge:  Paul White (DE)
    	Manager:  Mary Duffy
    	Secretary:  Maryanne Briggs
    
    	All day fees or pay per class.
    
    	For directions or stall availibility call (603)224-9141
    
    	54 classes, typical divisions:  open, am, na, ya, wt, lead line.
    
    	6 $100 stakes classed in Western pleasure and hunter under saddle.
    
    	I'll mail the class list upon request.
    
    

    I'll be at the Color Show in Stratham, NH, at Majestic Meadows.  I 
    think it's Paint and Buckskin.  I'm interested in knowing if anyone has 
    any hotel recommendations for that area.  Any ideas on what the
    facilities look like?  Indoor available?
    
    	many thanks-  

    Noting guidelines prevent me from expressing my real opinion but if you
    like dust, hostile neighbors, dust, cramped camper spaces, dust,
    outdoor rings, or dust, then this is the place for you.  There is an
    indoor arena but it is dustier than outside.  I've never stayed in a
    hotel (I doubt if there are many), but my wife did stay at a bed and
    breakfast near there.  As with any showground, it might deserve a visit
    before the show to see if it suits you.  They have shows there almost
    every weekend.
    
    Bob
    

    Thanks- Bob....I felt there was a reason as to why I didn't want to 
    stay in the camper (besides having to clean it first).

    Michelle there are a couple of casual seafood restaurants pretty close
    to Stratham.  We like to take a ride to the beach at night and get some
    fried dough or beach pizza.  
    
    Karen
    

    Well, I just got back from the APHA World show held in Fort Worth, TX
    last week.   What a blast!!!  I can't wait to go back next year.  They
    had 975 entries, 88 sale horses and ~ 4000 exhibitors.  According to
    the Forth Worth Star Telegram, Paints just moved up to the #3 breed.  I
    will have to re-read that article again to find out if they were the #3
    breed show in that area or everywhere.  
    
    Anyways, it was really fun and the people in that area are incredibly
    nice.  My parents bought a really nice yearling filly and she got here
    today.  She caught a ride with some people from NH who were coming
    back this way.   The World Champion Halter Yearling Gelding was from
    NH.  The freestyle reining was great.  The exhibitor who won rode to
    the theme song from Kevin Costner's Robin Hood movie.  The guy had a
    super nice costume and at the end of his ride a woman in a gorgeous
    WHITE gown (Maid Marion I presume) walked out in the arena and he
    galloped up to her and did a sliding stop (SHE DIDN'T EVEN GET DUSTY!)
    and dismounted to his knees and kissed her hand.  The crowd went wild!
    
    There were so many super horses there I didn't know where to go next. 
    We did a lot of research and we were bushed every night.  The broodmare
    that they were initially interested in sold for $14,000.  She was very
    nice.   She was the highpoint mare at the sale.   Well, I'll try to
    write more later on some cool classes and fashions!
    
    Karen

    When I was at the World Show I noticed something that really irked me
    and I was wondering if this is pretty common?  I saw some very big name
    QH trainers that were suspended from the AQHA showing at the APHA show.  
    
    Now, what really irked me was that for the average guy it would really
    be a big deal to be suspended.  Chances are he/she would probably only
    have one horse/breed that they were showing in and this would make them
    think more than once about being suspended again.  But, for someone who
    was a very well known trainer in one breed who could pick up clients
    immediately in another breed it might not be as bad.  \
    
    Has this happened with Arab trainers maybe showing National Show Horses
    or Saddlebred trainers showing something else, etc.???  
    
    KJ

    I would be curious to know what the were suspended for....

    I finally bought a Paint (well actually a crop out!) he is by Beau's
    My Daddy and he is the cutest thing.  I just got him Saturday night
    so I haven't really played with him yet.  He is 2 1/2 been ridden about
    10 times and he is just a peach.
    
    Karen
    

    
    
    	questions.. about colors.. 
    
    	Why are there so few black and white paints?
    
    	What do you bred to get black and white?
    
    	Donna

    
    
    Way to go Karen!  Maybe we'll finally bump into each other at the shows
    next year.
    
    M
    
    p.s.
    
    Donna - maybe one of the genetics experts can answer that one.  One
    of the kids at my barn did a genetics project at school last spring
    and used my mare and the stud she was bred to as an example. 
    (Hypothetical, of course.  We really don't know what her color genes
    are)
    
    He figured she'd have a 1 in 4 chance of having a baby her color,
    not-true black/dark bay, a 1 in 4 chance of having a palomino and a 2
    in 4 chance of having a chestnut or sorrel.
    
    You'd have to bred a true black to something recessive for better odds.
    There are some farms on the east coast that primarily breed black and
    whites.                                                        

    There is a beautiful B&W Paint stud in the Maryland area.
    15.3h and gorgeous!!  I saw his picture in the stallion
    edition of either the QH or Paint Horse Journal last year (?)
    

    Is it Romeo Rascal?  He lives near us.
    

    No, I think it is a Summer Breeze owned by George Micheal (Not the
    singer!) in Maryland.  Is Romeo Rascal in New Jersey???  I remember
    studying color genetics in solid horses for chestnuts, blacks and
    palominos, I will have to look it up again.  I'm not sure if it would
    apply to overo and tobiano color genes.  I don't have a clue...
    
    Karen

    Yes, Summer Breeze is his name......YUM!

    
    This is an update to my breeding stock colt who just moved up to the
    Regular registry.  He was foaled 3/25/91 with 4 white socks right up to
    the middle of his knees/hocks and wide blaze and white chin and what
    looked like he had slurped his milk drinking white mark on his face.  
    
    I am really psyched.  The woman who bought him is ecstatic.  
    
    KJ

    
    3/06/93 sorrel/overo colt!
    
    Miss Angie Baby X First Class Image
    
    Doing well.  Only 13 more babies to go...
    
    Karen

    I read in the Paint Horse Journal where the AHSA Stock Seat Equitation
    Medal Championship was won by Crystal McNutt riding a black tobiano
    gelding.  She competed in the two-round, triple judged, national
    competition in Scottsdale, Arizona.
    
    I also read where APHA registrations were up 17% last year!  That is a
    huge increase.  
    
    Karen
    

    
    5/18/93	dark bay/black?? tobiano colt w/ two blue eyes!
    
    Satin Gold X Impressive Jesse
    
    Both doing real well.....blue is *just* what I wanted!!!!

    
    
    
    	I have friend that has a quarter horse mare that has alot
    	of white on her.  She has been bred 3 times to the same stallion
    	and has gotten three solids.
    
    	Is there difference in stallions?  
    
    	Thanks

    On July 25th at the 4H show grounds there will be an incentive
    registration  for those interested in registering a horse with
    Pinto.  They reduced the fees for this day only. 

    Donna-
    
    Breeding for color is a big genetics game.  Two colored parents may
    have a history of throwing a breeding stock baby, and then throw a
    colored baby.  I've heard a few old wives tails that suggest that if
    a horse has ermine spots, it will be more likely to throw color.  The
    same goes for blue eyes, which makes a Paint w/ two blue eyes very
    desirable for breeding. 
    
    Is the stallion a Paint or Pinto?  Have they thrown color before?
    Is the mare registered QH, or might she be a breeding stock paint?
    
    Michele

    
    
    	I don't know the stallion, but he bred 7 mares and 6 of them
    	had color foals. Here's being the only solid , No she is Three
    	bar Quarter horse.  
    
    	but here back socks go all the way up past her knee and her
    	face is almost bald.
    
    	I thought I read there was two different kinds of paints to breed 
    	to. 
    
    	Oh well
    

    That still dosen't tell us much as the stud could be a solid bred to 
    colored mares or he could be a colored stud bred to colored( or 
    solid mares).  Two solid colored horses bred together probably won't
    have a colored foal, but there have been exceptions......

    My horse is the result of 2 solid quarter horses throwing a crop-out.
    I'm sure that the people who owned the mare must have had a heart
    attack when they saw him in the stall.  He has a lot of color on his
    stomach and his legs, almost like he couldn't decide what color he
    wanted.  His sire is Beau's My Daddy on the top 20 Quarter Horse sires
    list who passed away 2 years ago and I'm not sure what is dam looked
    like.  The horse in the stall next to me is also a crop-out from 2
    Quarter horses.  
    
    I was reading an article about a big Paint breeder who bred this
    particular QH mare to his Paint stallion 4 times before he got a
    colored foal and it was the best one he ever had.  I would have given
    up after 3 tries, but I suppose when you are a big, big operation with
    many horses to breed you can be a little more persistent.  I think that
    it is a crap shoot whether you get color or not.  Many solid horses
    carry an overo gene and many colored horses bred to coloreds give you a
    solid!  It is exciting and frustrating waiting for these little buggers
    to be born.  Does your friend really want a foal from this particular
    stallion?  It sounds like she really wants a colored paint so maybe she
    should breed another mare to the same stallion, or breed the same mare
    to another stallion or buy a colored baby (guaranteed to keep the
    color)!
    
    Karen
    
    
    

    The genes that control white on the legs and face are separate from
    those that produce white body markings. In other words, having a lot 
    of white on legs and face doesn't mean that the horse is likely to 
    throw pintos. It does mean that whatever the horse throws is likely 
    to have lots of white on the legs and face.
    
    Just to confuse the issue a little more, there aren't just overo and
    tobiano genes involved in controlling white body markings either! 
    
    It's fairly common for solid colored *Arabians* to throw a spotted
    horse that looks like a pinto. The white spots have ragged edges like
    the belly and body markings on Clydesdales. Because of that similarity
    and because overo and tobiano genes are unheard of in those breeds,
    there has been some speculation that the gene(sabino,  I think) is
    the cause in both Clydesdales and Arabians.
    
    There was even a similarly marked *Thoroughbred* race horse pictured in
    The Blood Horse a few weeks ago.

    FYI-
    
    Any breed of horse (except an appy) that has white spots on their belly
    and _______, x inches around, with pink skin underneath the white area 
    and a darker colored skin underneath the other area can be registered 
    with the Pinto registry.  I'd have to consult the rule book for the
    specifics, but that is the general idea.
    
    I know of a Davenport Arab, with the minimum color requirements, that
    was registered with the Pinto registry. 

    I have a sabino marked saddlebred, he even has one blue eye. I think it
    was Deb Bennett who wrote an article about the medicine hat pattern. It
    occurs most often when two sabino horses are crossed. Sabino is a horse
    with high socks on all four legs, and a wide blaze or bald face. Mine
    is chestnut body, and also has about fifty percent white in his tail.
    His sire is the same markings, only he has two blue eyes. He has been
    bred to all solid mares, but the babies all have the sabino markings.
    

    re: -.1
    
    The sabino stud w/ 2 blue eyes throwing sabino babies backup up the
    old wives tail...

    Michelle, would I need to have my horse inspected at the Pinto show in
    New Boston, or could I just bring a picture or his Paint papers for
    registration? 
    
    My friend would like to register her horse too.  
    
    Karen

    I believe you have to have the horse inspected and show in one class
    for it to     fall in this special deal.  Sally would know best....
    508-366-9538.  She has voice mail so you can leave her a good message.
    
    I'll try to find out as well.
    

    Extracted from the genetics note:
    
    Sb (gene mnemonic for sabino paint spotting) and sb(gene mnemonic for
    non-sabino pattern).
    
    The sabino pattern is often confused with overo. Sabino may be an example 
    of incomplete dominance which would mean that homozygous horses(SbSb) 
    have more extreme patterning and markings than heterozygous horses(Sbsb).
    
    The sabino pattern is typified by extremely ragged margins in the
    markings. The pattern rarely crosses the spine and blue eyes are
    common. The *minimum* expression seems to be high white stockings and
    extreme facial white. This gene is common among Clydesdales where the
    color is sometimes erroneously called roan. 
    
    Many sabino horses exhibit the Medicine Hat pattern popular among some
    breeds such as the North American Spanish. Pure white foals develop
    normally in contrast with overos.

    Are there any other Pinto shows in the New England area this year after
    this coming one in New Boston?
    
    Karen

    Ya know that Thoroughbred with a sabino coat pattern that I mentioned a
    couple notes back? Well, it turns out he's a 2 YO in training w/ Jack
    Van Berg in CA. He won a race so between that and his coloring they had
    a feature about him on ESPN's Thoroughbred Digest last night. 
    
    He's *definitely* a sabino: Bald face, high white stockings and white
    body markings with jagged edges. I think he had at least one blue eye
    as well.
    
    BTW, he's *TRIPLE* registered as a Thoroughbred, Paint and Pinto! He's
    called Trichrome.

    Hi Karen
    
    Oneco in August is our last show.  I believe it's the last weekend
    (26th and 27th).  
    
    I forgot to ask if you have to be at the show to register your horse,
    but I did confirm that the incentive is in fact happening.
    
    Steve Chumsea is handeling the details and he can be reached at	
    508-355-2578.
    
    Michele

    I wondered if Thoroughbreds could be registered that way!  I thought
    so.  That is pretty cool!  Now, I wonder if he can race in both the
    Thoroughbred races and the Paint races?  Probably, why not.  Although
    the Paint purses are tiny compared to the Thoroughbred purses.  
    
    Interesting. 
    
    Karen

    I attended the Northeast Connection Zone-A-Rama at the Horse Park in
    New Jersey last weekend and one interesting thing that I noted was that
    the long, dragging tail was out!  The tails are still long (fetlock
    length) but cut straight across the bottom.  This goes for hunt as well
    as stock seat, are QH going the same route?  It was a really nicely run,
    well attended show where everyone was very well turned out.   The horse
    park itself was very nice and we had perfect weather.  
    
    Karen

    Karen,
    
    I was at a show this weekend.  It wasen't a breed show or a pointed
    show, just a little show.  I did notice alot of QH with nice neat tails
    up around the fetlock.  I think the dragging tail is out.  I have 2 QH
    and would kill for a ling tail.
    
    Virginia

    Is anyone showing at the Paint/Quarter Horse show in Deerfield this
    weekend?  
    
    Karen

    I went to the NHQHA/NEPHC show last weekend at the Deerfield
    Fairgrounds.  There were more QH entries than there was last year and
    the Paint entries were up a little, although not enough.  There weren't
    enough Novice/Amateurs or Amateurs in the Paint classes.  The Youth
    classes inboth QH and Paints were well attended.  I can't remember the Open
    division.  They had some good futurity classes as well as some combined
    (Paint/QH) money classes.
    
    A lot of farms are not coming to New England to show anymore because of
    the low entries at the Paint shows.  It is too bad because we used to
    get people from Michigan, Canada, Pennsylvania, NJ, and it is too far a
    haul for them to come up here for a class worth 1 point.
    
    I hope that we have more entries at the Paint/Open show in Plymouth,
    NH.  There will be Open classes as well as the Paint show going on. 
    There are several $$ classes.
    
    Karen
      

    Anyone heard about regulation changes to registering Pinto's?
    
    Karen

    				NEPHC CLINIC
    		
    		with Todd Hemminger, 1993 Congress 3 & 4 Yr. old
    		Futurity Winner.
    
		4/02/94		Salty Lane Farm
    				24 Lane Rd.
    				Derry, NH 
    
    		There will be 2 Sessions of Showmanship, Western
    	Pleasure and Western Horsemanship of 10 horses a session.
    
    	Todd will also be demonstrating on the Congress Futurity Winner,
    	Tee Up.
    
    	For more information call:
    	Stacy Myers
    	508-640-0560
    
    	or drop me a note @ salem::roy_k
    
    
    

    Does anyone have the show dates for the New England Pinto Association
    for 1994 yet?
    
    I would like to show at some Pinto Shows this year.
    
    Karen
    

    May 8, 	Jefferson NH		2 judges
    June 11-12 	Spencer, MA		4 judges continuous show
    July 17     New Boston, NH	        2 Judges
    August 20	Oneco, CT		2 judges
    August 21	Oneco, CT		1 judge triple pointed (I think)
    
    Watch for my yearling colt Satins Blue Moon.

    My parents mare foaled last Wednesday night, (that gross storm)
    and had an adorable chestnut/white tovero colt.  He had to stay in for
    a week because of the cold (even in his dress) and he is going out
    today for the first time.
    
    			LEO'S FLOWER AMARILLIS is the dam (AQHA)
                        
                        FIRST CLASS IMAGE is the sire
    
    This was Bridget's first foal and she is doing really well.
    
    Karen
    
                       

    Has anyone heard about relaxing the restrictions on excessive white on
    Quarter horses?  I read an article in the Paint Horse Journal about
    double registering QH/APHA stallions.   These are horses that have
    excessive white on their legs and heads that are being allowed into the
    QH registry where before they were cropouts and could only be
    registered with the APHA.
    
    I do not have the new AQHA rule book so I was wondering if anyone else
    saw it.  I do get the QH Journal and the APHA journal and this is the
    first I heard of it.
    
    Karen
    

    Is anyone going to the Paint-O-Rama this weekend in Stratham, NH?
    
    I'm showing (I mean sweltering) this weekend.
    
    Karen
    

    I went to the APHA World Championship show in Fort Worth, TX last week
    and I was surprised at the difference in 2 years.  There were a lot of
    good changes!  
    
    I noticed that people were not afraid to pass in any of the Pleasure
    classes, that the horses that were very pretty lopers did not crawl
    around. The Bridleless Pleasure class was great because no one could 
    pick at their horse!  It was a very nicely done class.  
    
    Not too many people were happy with the Reno location of the 1995 show.  
    Horses from New England did very well.  A World Champion in Amateur Jr.
    Western Pleasure, World Champion in 3 yr. old geldings and a 3rd in
    Reining.
    
    Karen
    

    Where can I get a class list for the Pinto show in Oneco this month?
    I already threw out my Peddlar and Journal this month.
    
    Thanks
    
    Karen

    Hi Karen
    
    Call Sally Atchue  508-366-9538 and she'll make sure you get one.
    
    I can also look around and see if I still have my newsletter.....but I
    don't recall if the class list was in it.
    
    Michele
    
    
    p.s.
    
    Are you showing in August?  I'm debating it.

    I had PeeWee temporarily registered on-site at Meadowood Farm in April,
    but I still had to forward the pictures to the Pinto Association and
    the pictures were lost.  I have been waiting all this time for my
    permanent registration (I knew it took a long time so I wasn't
    concerned) and now the temporary registration ran out.
    
    I took more pictures on Sunday and I will see if I can get him
    registered in time for the show.  If all goes well, I will be showing
    at Oneco and looking forward to it.  I have never shown at a Pinto
    show.   I don't even know what kind of classes they offer, etc.  My
    father will be showing a weanling colt and my mother has a yearling
    mini filly.
    
    Thanks for the info!
    
    Karen

    If you call Sally, I think there may be a way to get him re-registered
    again at Oneco.

    Any Paint owners out there notice how expensive they are getting?
    
    I went to the World Sale this year and in 1992, they were up $2000.00
    in 94 from 92!  I was reading results in Horse & Rider and the avg.
    horse at the APHA was around $5.2K opposed to $3.6 for the Appy
    National sale.  
    
    Karen

    Hi Karen
    
    I'm happy to hear this, because I've got the little one up for sale.
    I was checking out other geldings for sale in his age bracket, but the
    prices were low ($1200 range).
    
    Did you notice what a black and white yearling was selling for?
    
    
    Michele
     

    Michelle,
    
    Black & whites are at the high end. I will check my catalogue, we
    logged all the prices.  I haven't seen anything decent from yearlings
    on up under $5.0K, that would fit my purpose.  
    
    Karen
    

    I am going to the APHA World Championship show next month.  It is being
    held in Reno this year at the Reno Livestock Center.  Has anyone ever
    been there?  
    
    Karen
    

    Well, I went to the APHA World Show in Reno and in between shopping
    sprees and gambling I managed to watch some of the show!  I was very
    happy to see that about 1/3 of the exhibitors in the Showmanship class
    had on long jackets.  This looked really nice on the exhibitors that
    weren't 110 lbs.  The show was very big this year, and ran really late. 
    
    Next year the show moves back to Fort Worth, Texas.  Most of the horses
    at this show were from the West, I didn't feel it was indicative of the
    competition you normally see at the World Championship show.
    
    Karen
    
     

    For those of you who get the Paint Horse Journal (and those who don't)
    there is a very nice article about 3 farms in New England, and their 
    winter programs.  It was a well written article and New England doesn't
    usually get a lot of coverage.
    
    Karen