Conference noted::equitation

    Unfortunately, once it becomes an ingrained habit, its
    hard to prevent, even with the "gadgits" available.
    My opinion is the basket muzzle type works good. 
    She can eat & drink, but cannot chew.  It is attached to
    the halter, and covers the mouth so the horse cannot put
    it's teeth against anything.  The neck strap type wouldn't
    keep her from chewing.
    
    Hope this helps-
    
    Lynne

	Beavers.... *sigh*

	What has worked for me is the "No Chew" or "Positively No Chew" gunk
	which comes in a medium sized jar.  It's applied with a brush.  I've
	seen it in most feed and tack stores (got last one at State Line).

	(My critter recognizes the jar and now gives me the dirtiest look
	when it comes out.)

				-Caroline

	re: mesh baskets... that would work well with a critter which takes 
	    eating seriously.  Mine would rather play than eat, so wearing a 
	    basket would do more than prevent him from 	chewing and 
	    considering he isn't the easiest horse to keep weight on, we'll
	    keep brushing on the gunk.

    
    At the barn I'm at they use the basket on two of the horses and
    although it looks awful the horses seem not to mind it.
    
    The other thing they do is keep these horses in paddocks with electric
    fences.  They turn the fences on for about a month every three months
    and their fences look great.  Seems that horses learn to stay away from
    the wires once they've been zapped.....
    
    

    
    I've also seen a contraption which isn't a basket, but just juts out
    beyond the lower jaw of the horse, so they can't get their teeth close
    enough to bite.
    

I use the basket contraption on a cribber (windsucker).  It cut down her 
cribbing considerably, but she can still angle the thing on top of a post
to get her 'fix.'   

re .4 

I'd like to know more about this other contraption that prevents them from
getting too close to something to latch their teeth onto.   I have yet to
find a foolproof gadget for cribbing.

    
    I saw it in State Line's catalog. If you'd like, I can search it
    out for you.
    

re: .4?
	The 'thing' sounds like a 'bib', which merely attaches to the halter
and keeps the horse from doing things like chew on blankets and bandages.  If 
that is what you are describing, it will do nothing for the cribber/windsucker,
since they can still do all those things with objects in front of their noses.
The only things protected by bibs are thos they have to bring their heads *back*
to get. Anything in front of them is fair game.

    
    
    	You might try giving your horse something to do.  Get
    	a ball...one about basket ball size.  You can get one
    	at just about any grocery store for a few dollars.  
    	You may need to fence the  bottem part of your fence in
    	so the ball doesn't get out of reach.  You can even 	
    	put it in the stall with your horse provided it's a
    	box stall.  This won't stop the cribbing but it may help
    	cut down on it.  Good luck.
    
    Theresa

    
    I like the last suggestion about giving the horse a bucket, ball,
    or object to play with to "cut down" on chewing. We give our young
    termites starting at about 1 year old something to help keep them
    occupied at the first sign of chewing. I have found in my case that
    some horses (my colt) prefers a loose object that he can "pick up"
    in his mouth and generally toss around, step on, etc. The ball 
    hanging from the ceiling wasn't his cup of tea.
    
    Ultimate Cribbing Solution: I have not tried this one, but have
    been assured that it works like a charm. This huge boarding stable
    has found that red pepper, and no chew products don't work with
    all horses and they asssure me they have tried every remedy you
    stated in your original note...........but COAST deodorant SOAP
    works great!! Something in the deodorant that the horses don't
    like...they have found COAST to work the best of the brands they
    have tried. Rub it on all of your horses' favorite chew spots.
    
    	Let us know how it works....Nancy
    

    RE: .9
    Hi Nancy,
    
    I have been using Ivory soap in the squirt bottle in her stall and
    so far it seems to be working.  I just have to be careful to keep
    up with her as she attempts to move onto new places to chew!  This
    is working much better than tabasco sauce or Halt Cribbing ever
    worked!
    
    Linda

    
    Linda,
    
    I was told that Ivory isn't really effect in stopping the chewing
    because it is too mild. Maybe if you try the deodorant soap it will
    stop you from having to "keep up" because your horse won't want
    to chew?!
    		Nancy
    
    P.S. Horse humor: Maybe you can line your horses stall with bars
    of soap????

    re: .9
    What if your critter eats the soap?  Any ideas on what might happen if
    a horse would eat the soap?  I think I would want to know what a vet
    would say about this before trying it.
    
       Just my two cents in wanting to know.
    
    E.

    RE: last
    
    This horse has eaten through motor oil, creosote, tabasco sauce,
    and the soap has been on the walls a couple of weeks now with no
    ill effects!  

    re: .13
    
    Oh,  I had no idea that they could eat such horrible stuff and not get
    really ill...
    
    I find it ironic that horses basically have to be pampered in so many
    other areas, i.e. feed, worming and such that they have stomachs that
    could take motor oil and creosote...yuk.
    
    I will recommend the soap then to our barn owner, 32 horses and half of
    them are eating the walls...  Her termites will bring down the barn
    eventually.
    
    Thanks,  Ester

    
    Re:12
    
    I'm dying of laughter because I WANT to say this and hope you won't
    take it wrong.........
    
    Don't worry about the horse eating the soap...Try some and see what
    it tastes like...if you like it, then seriously ...call the Vet!!
    
    The whole key to horse termites is to find something they don't
    like to eat...and I find it hard to think anyone of them would LIKE
    to have their mouth washed out with soap.......but again....going
    back to the deodorant soaps..some breeders feel that one soap works
    better than another..I suggested the COAST deodorant because it's
    supposed to stop them effectively. 
    
    I wonder if perfume would work......it tastes terrible! I guess
    you need to find something that isn't toxic to the horse in small
    amounts..apparently motor oil and creasote aren't.
    
    		Forgive my teasing...but you have a good point,
    		
    				Nancy

    I need help finding something to keep my horse from chewing boards in
    his stall. A few years ago I remember seeing an ad in the back of one
    of the horse magazines (most likely Equus) for a company that
    makes-to-order metal pieces that fit over your boards to keep horses
    from chewing them. I don't get any horse magazines anymore--but has
    anyone noticed one of these ads recently? If so, could you post the
    phone number here?
    
    Thanks,
    Andrea

    A friend of mine has her horse's stall hot-wired to keep him
    from chewing/cribbing.  Works great!  The wire is set up about
    4 inches from the wall, and runs all the way around and across
    the top of the stall door.

    A common solution is to use a medium/heavy guage stock sheet metal,
    bend it to the shape of the board and secure it with screws.
    
    Works wonders....
    
    Karen

    I picked up some lightweight aluminum angle bars at a large hardware
    store in my area.  This is used for installing rugs on stairs, it is
    'L' shaped.  This worked nice to cover the edges, it is easy to drill,
    comes in different thicknesses and widths, and it will never rust. The
    pieces I got were 8' long, 2" by 2" (the L sides), and 3/32" thick.
    I drilled the holes easily with a regular bit and screwed them on with 
    round head screws. The nice thing about this is the edges are rounded
    smooth, not razor sharp like sheet metal can be.
    
    Sharon

    A friend of mine has a horse that cribs.  Her trainer told her to coat
    all the edged in the stall with a bar of Ivory soap.  It seemed to
    work.  I'm not sure if it's hard on a horse's digestive system though. 
    Has anyone out there tried this?
    
    Julie

    I used it for a while and just like many other solutions, it worked 
    for a while.  If the horse is very determined he will eventually start 
    to ignore the bad taste.  It did work the best though, it didn't make 
    the horses' nose peel either like many of the store bought products.  
    It didn't seem to harm her, I know a lot of people use it.  I put it 
    in a jar of water to turn it into mush and then I painted it on.
    
    Sharon

    Ivory soap is 99 & 44/100's pure....(pure what, I don't know! (: )
    
    L

    We use something simular, but we take liquid dish soap and mix it 
    with cayne pepper. If we notice any chewing we paint it on. Works
    pretty good,
    
    Carl

    I know someone who has had good luck with those cage muzzles.  The
    horse can still eat, graze and drink - but it can't chew wood.

    
    Please tell me that there is something new out there that will
    help prevent cribbing!  I know, better chance at mega-bucks! :-)
    
    I'm just at the end of my rope.  Nothing works on my friends horse.
    Over the past yrs we've used basktes, nutcracker, the belt, the
    horrible spike collar....nothing worked!  This horse could crib
    if he was dead!
    
    I went out this weekend and I bought the new "mirical collar" that
    is supposed to even stop the idea of cribbing..I spent $30 on a
    horse that is not even mine....and the new "mirical collar" didn't
    work either!!!
    
    I love my friend and I love her horse...but the horse is destroying
    the barn little by little...I just don't know what to do.
    
    I know there is nothing sort of surguy, I guess I just needed to
    vent.. THANKS
    
    Louisa

    I used Ivory soap on the areas that my horse was chewing, sure
    seemed to defer her from that area anyways!  I believe in leaving
    a bad cribber outside as much as possible, it's a habit that
    is really hard if not impossible to break.
    
    Linda

    
    This cribber does not even need anything to cribb on..he
    cribbs in the air and while he eats and as we swallows his
    food.
    
    he is outside 24hrs a day and the fence is electric - no
    wood fence to reck, but the horses can get to the barn from
    the 6 acre pasture (we cant change this fact) so the horse
    is cribbing on the outside of the barn.
    
    he cribbs on water buckets, stumbs, EVEN ROCKS!!!!!!!!
    
    I know there is nothing I can do, like I said, I just wanted
    to vent to other folks who live w/cribbers :-)
    
    

Minor nit - cribbing is chewing on wood, and windsucking is just what
the name implies - that hideous URP as they suck wind. Generally,
these 2 charming habits are lumped together.  

For the cribber, about your only solution is to keep the horse from
getting his mouth near anything that he can chew. If it's the side
of your barn, then run electrified extensions of the the fence back 
forth across the surfaces he can get to with his mouth, or run a 
fence extension parallel to the barn so he can't reach it.  Then,
for every exposed wooden surface he can still get to, cover it with
metal.  Even if it doesn't stop the windsucking, it will at least
slow the destruction.

For the confirmed windsucker, especially if they don't need a solid 
object to plant their teeth on, (and it sounds like you have one of
these - oh joy) I'm afraid I don;t know of much that will stop them.
It's the singularly most unattractive bad habit that I know of.

Does this horse do it out of boredom?  Does he prefer to do it rather 
than eat?  Will he be quieter if he has hay in front of him all the 
time?

    >Minor nit - cribbing is chewing on wood, and windsucking is just what
    >the name implies - that hideous URP as they suck wind. Generally,
    >these 2 charming habits are lumped together.
    
    Gee, I was taught that cribbing=windsucking and that chewing wood was
    chewing wood! Guess we went to different schools, eh? I think the 
    defintiion cribbing=windsuckin is consistent with the names given to
    devices intended to prevent windsucking(e.g. "cribbing straps").
    
    John

    
    When a horse cribbs he usually puts his teeth on a wooden surface
    to suck the wind..therefor he splits the wood, therfore he
    recks the fence/barn etc....hence the wood chewing senirao..bottom
    line...wooden surfaces get runied by cribbers.
    
    but as noted, this horse cribbs on everything/anything not just
    wood (but wood is his fav')

    
    to answer the question:  does he do it out of bordum?  NO!  he
    loves to do it.  He does it while he eats, so putting hay infrount
    of him will not help.  He rather crib then eat, he rather crib then do
    anything. The only time he does not crib is while undersaddle.
    
    Ah-Ha -- we will ride him for 24hrs a day 365 days a year...that
    will do it .... :-) :-)
    
    I has such high hopes for that mirical cribbing collar :-(((((
    
    Lou

    I have a cribber, I never really understood the difference between
    "wind-sucking" and "wood chewing" until I got this horse.  Wood chewing
    is a habit that comes and goes with a level of boredom, I've had a horse
    that ate my barn to splinters when I was pregnant and couldn't ride,
    which wouldn't touch the wood normally. 
    Wind-sucking, on the other hand, is an addiction to endorphins.  They're
    getting high off it, and just like nicotine or crack cocaine, it  is
    hard to overcome. Many times people don't understand the difference and
    they try to tell me the horse is just bored and what not, I've given up
    trying to explain it to them.  My vet tells me if they give the horse
    the same drug heroin addicts get, they will stop.
    
    There was an article in Practical horseman recently about using 
    accupunture staples. This is the most recent new idea I've seen for a
    cure but like many others, it also has it's disadvantages (you have 
    to ride a horse with staples on his face and ears :-) ). It says if
    staples are going to work for a horse it doesn't happen right away, it
    takes a week to a month.  Maybe you should give you electronic collar
    more time.
    
    With my horse I just let her do it.  I tried many things, most of them
    are very temporary, and seem to make her more adament.  I've read a few
    trainer/vet articles which say they don't see much difference in
    illness, etc. by just giving up letting them do it, and I don't either.
    She may even have fewer colic bouts now that I've stopped fighting her
    and I really think she does it a lot less now.
        
    Anyway, whether you try to stop it or not the barn is going to suffer 
    unless you take measures to protect it.  I bought metal 'v' shaped 
    bars to protect the corners of the barn, there are thin lightweight
    aluminum ones that you can find in the hardware store, they are for 
    rug/stair installs. Drill them and screw them on, be careful that the 
    ends are filed smooth or out of reach, they are sharp.
    
    I "provide" a convinent place for her to do her pulling, I nail a
    replaceable oak board on her favorite spots.  Oak lasts much longer,
    than pine. When the board gets low, replace it before it wears into the 
    good barn.
    
    Sharon

    We have a MAJOR cribaholic in our barn.  She's 4 and started cribbing
    when she was 2.  Of the 9-12 horses home, she is the only one with
    this disgusting habit.  Thank goodness!
    
    Anyway, her owner tried a regular cribbing strap, she tried the prong
    thing, she tried the electronic thing.  None of them worked.  Then we
    saw a new collar.  It is regular leather, a fairly wide strap under
    the throat with a little V pointing forward, then a strap around the
    throat and a separate strap across the forehead.  This one works!
    The leather is kind of stiff (cheap) but we've oiled it (soaked it
    with oil) to soften it and we put some halter fleeces on the long
    straps that were rubbing and it seems to be ok.  The mare really  
    doesn't mind it at all.
    
    The mare is happy, she's gaining a little weight because she's using
    her food more efficiently and she's completely stopped cribbing.
    But this is a habit that will never go away, she'll always have to
    wear the collar.
    
    I'll look up the ordering info for you tonight.  If you want to see
    it, just let me know!
    
    gwen
    

    
    Gewn, the collar your talking about is "the mirical collar" and
    it did not work on this cribber!  Your lucky it worked on yours.
    
    Thanks,
    
    louisa

    If it didn't work on your friend's horse, you maybe didn't have it
    adjusted tight enough.  We didn't tighten it enough at first and it
    didn't work for Fandango.  What you do is get the animal to put their
    nose toward the ground and then you can adjust the collar tighter.
    It looks almost abusive, but it isn't.  And it will work.
    
    gwen
    

    
    belive me, it was [[tight]] real tight!  
    
    The video showed you should be able to put your hand through the
    straps with ease.  We did it so it fit like that, when he still
    cribbed, we put it as tight as it could go...he still cribbed!
    
    

    Well, I don't know what to say except don't take it off.  If you have
    it buckled on the last hole he must have a very small throatlatch.
    And as long as you've bought and paid for the collar you might as
    well use it.  Maybe he'll give in.  (Maybe pigs will fly too.)
    
    gwen
    

    
    It cost $30, I took it back the next day.  He does not have a
    small throatlatch..he's a big (thick) warmblood

    Perhaps the collar worked better on the younger horse. My horse is
    older and I know that she would rather die than stop. That's why I gave
    up. Some things I tried would stop her for a little, then she would
    gradually give in to the pain, bad taste, discomfort, whatever and
    decide that she could live with it. This would make her even more tense
    and crabby and therefore she'd need a 'hit' even more.  Kind of like a
    smoker needing a cigerette when they get nervous (humm, I was there).
    
    So now I have a nice useless collection of mussles, collars, sprays,
    goops, and toys. Perhaps if she was younger I might have had a better
    chance of stopping it.  She's a much more relaxed horse now.  
    I'm glad she has an open stall though, if she was cooped up all day 
    it would probably be more of a problem.
    
    Sharon