Conference noted::equitation

    Sorry I can't offer any better answer, but aside from the type of
    treatment you're already doing, I don't really remember what else
    I did a few years ago when my horse had a stone bruise.
    
    It's frustrating, but you basically have to give it time.  If your
    turnout area is rocky, you probably shouldn't turn the horse out
    without some kind of pad or boot to prevent further damage.  If
    you're fortunate enough (as I was) to have an indoor ring or some
    other area with good footing, you can still exercise him lightly.
    
    I recommend the use of pads in the future, though -- again, especially
    if the turnout area is rocky or if the horse goes out on trails.
    I do a lot of hacking, so my horse has worn pads on the front ever
    since his stone bruise.  
    
    Good luck,
    steve
    
    

    Just what does a stone bruise look like and what are the symptoms?
    I ride a lot on gravel roads and over rocky trails (Colorado has
    an abundance of rocks). My mare's feet have finally grown out such
    that her sole does not seem so near the ground but I have wondered
    if I might hurt her where I ride. 
    
    BTW, a few issues back in Equus I saw a product that was poured
    into the horse's foot (it dries in 30 sec, they say) that provides
    an instant pad.              

    This may be crazy but what happens to a wild horse who gets stone
    bruises?  I mean there no one there to soak the feet.  Do they go
    lame????
    
    Curious..
    
    Bobbi
    

    I imagine that either the wild horse's soles toughen up enough so
    that they don't bruise or they just heal slower. Someone please
    correct me but I think about the only thing that the Epsom salt
    soaks do is hasten the bruises healing so if wild horses get stone
    bruises, they probably heal but maybe just slower.
    
    Linda

    Horses in the wild have much more going for them such that I would
    think that stone bruises are very rare.  For example, they never
    have to carry a riders weight, they are used to walking on the same
    terrain all the time, they are more surefooted, food is scarce so
    they carry less of their own weight and spend more time eating than
    running, they don't have pent up energy from eating grain, they
    don't wear shoes so their feet are tougher.  If they do get a bruise,
    they get lame by the amount appropriate amount and nature takes
    over.  If they are extremely lame, its probably because they have
    tender soles (a genetic trait) so they get slow and probably eaten.
    Its a very harsh system which doesn't lend itself to producing pretty
    animals but they sure get tough.  The best part is that its a time tested
    formula.
    

    re 5:
    
    That's true they don't have riders do they???  I guess they can
    walk wherever they want to.  (Unless they are being chased)
    Also they don't have shoes.  Do you
    think that's good?  What about domestic horses?  Do shoes help as
    far as stone bruises go?
    
    Bobbi
    

    My opinion is that shoes only exacerbate the problem of stone bruises.
    The application of shoes to the horses foot stiffens the bottom
    of the foot and prevents the normal expansion and contraction of
    the hoof material.  While the unshod foot does not expand and contract
    all that much with impact it does serve the purpose of aiding capillary
    action inside the foot.  Less blood mobility means less tone and
    elasticity which leads to feet that bruise easier and take longer
    to heal.  A popular solution is to apply a pad between the shoe
    and the sole of the foot.  It works reasonably well until you take
    them off, then you get a real tenderfoot.  Alas if you have Arabs
    pads are less practical because you cannot show with them.
    
    

>    and the sole of the foot.  It works reasonably well until you take
>    them off, then you get a real tenderfoot.  

     Terrific! My horse was just shod this a.m. and, since he's had
     pads on for about a year now, the farrier suggested I leave them
     off for a few weeks to air out the frogs. (Incidentally, I've
     never smelled such stinky feet - not even thrush is that bad!)

     Is this a regularly accepted practice, leaving the pads off for
     a few weeks out of the year? I haven't been jumping him much
     lately, so I figured it was okay, but the terrain around where
     I live is very rocky.

     How long does it usually take for a stone bruise to heal?

     - julie

    I've never heard of leaving them off unless there was a problem
    (e.g. thrush etc).  If you trail ride you may want to watch what
    you travel over for a while especially if your horse has a propensity
    for bruises.  Take all the usual precautions...  walk don't run
    over loose sharp rocks like crushed stone, let the horse pick its
    own way, etc.  After you ride pay particular attention to the soles
    for soreness.  Why did you have pads in the first place?  I don't
    remember any bad smell associated with one of ours that has pads.
    Does your farrier pack your horses feet before the pads go on?
    
    Bob
    

    The farrier said the frogs looked a little "mushy", so I may
    want to give them the chance to air out. She packs it with a
    ropey material - hemp? I had them put on a year ago because I
    was jumping him. Also his angles were way out of wack, so the
    pads, proper trimming, and the shoes were all used to bring them
    back up. I've kept the pads since, espcially now that were in
    a very rocky neck of the woods.

    The smell is not as though there were any rot in progress, just
    damp, dirty smelly horse feet that have been covered with the
    pads for a couple months. That can do it!

    Anyhow, we did a 3-hour ride this weekend, and I let him pick
    his way over the rough areas, and he went quite gingerly! But
    he was more than willing to race down the railroad bed and the
    pine-needle-carpeted trails. That was Saturday a.m., and there
    is no sign of soreness, so I guess we're going to be okay. But
    those pads go back on for the next shoeing!!
    
    -julie

    I live in Charlotte NC, last year we had the terrible drought.
    By august the ground was as hard as concret and my horse got a
    whopper of a stone bruise.  Somehow while we were riding a stone
    got between her hoof and her shoe, she didn't show any pain
    during the ride but the following day she was lame.
    
    It took 3 months for her to recover from the bruise.  The
    vet had me soak her foot 2 to 3 times a day for 2 weeks.  The
    vet told me to keep her out in the pasture and not to ride her
    for a few more weeks.  She would appear to be fine we would
    put her in her stall over night and the next morning she was lame
    again. After a month of rest we had pads put on her front feet.
    I was told to work her at a walk no trotting or cantoring.  It took
    2 more months for her to be back to normal.
    
    No one could understand how a stone bruise could last so long and
    cause so much pain.  After the first 2 weeks when she did not improve
    I had the vet xray her hoof.  The xrays did not show any problems.
    The vet cut at the hoof and found that the bruise went way up the
    hoof.
    
    When we removed the 2nd set of pads her frogs were soft and her
    feet did smell.  The vet told me not to keep pads on her, she said
    that after the foot was healed that I should go back to just shoes
    no pads.  It has been almost a year since the bruise and she has
    not had any additional problems.
    
    Mary Ann
    

    
    My horse also got a stone bruise this summer. We were on our every
    day ride, the same route we usually go. We got to our destination,
    stopped for a rest, and on the way home, no more than a few strides,
    I noticed he would be off almost every step he took. I got off him,
    looked for sharp objects in his feet, found nothing so I got back 
    on him. Same thing. I couldn't find a thing wrong, so we tried walking.
    Same thing. If he stepped on anything sticking up, I could almost
    hear him scream inside, so I got off his back and walked him home.
    Four miles up the main road during rush hour/fun fun fun!
    
    Once I got home, a close check-up revealed the stone bruise. Rear/
    right toe. I soaked his foot once a day in epsom salt w/ warm water
    for the first 4-5 days. The next week I continued to work him on
    hard/flat ground, just lightly to keep him in shape. The following
    week, I brushed the soles of all four feet with Kopertox (for thrush) 
    in an attempt to harden the soles, once a day untill the soles appeared
    dry, but not flaky and brittle. 
    
    The next shoeing revealed the slight abcess that had drained, but
    was cut off with no trace of it remaining.
    
    Till this day, we have had no more bruises. And I still travel the
    same rocky roads at an extended trot with no problems, although
    in the back of my mind, I still remember that day, and still wonder
    if it will reaccure, but I still refuse to have pads put on...there
    should be no need for them. He is allowed to pick his way, and his
    speed (for the most part) throught each ride, unless I see a better
    route to go, then it's my way.

    My horse turned up lame about 2 weeks ago.  He is currently shoed
    with pads on the front.  He is lame on his right front leg.   After
    looking at his leg and hoof we found nothing.  A few days later he was
    getting better but definitely not 100%.  I then saw a stone inside the
    pad, I had the black smith out and cut out the pad and out came this
    somewhat pointed stone!
    
    It's been a week and 1/2 since the stone was removed and he is still
    pretty lame and doesn't want to put much weight on his foot.  I am
    wondering if it really was/is a stone bruise?   Would a stone bruise
    last this long?  Could it be something else?  Like navicular?  Lately
    when I had been riding is alittle clumsey (ie tripping and stumbling).
    I should also add he is 20ish years old and has NEVER been lame on his
    front feet.  He has not been worked very hard.. for the past 6 years
    he's just been ridden on trails and small amounts of ring work.
    
    The blacksmith is coming out tonight, I am hoping he will be able to
    tell the serverity of the stone bruise or if it's something else.
    
    Any ideas would be apreciated.
    
    Lisa
        

    Sounds like this could be a really bad stone bruise.  If there was a
    pointed rock between the pad and his hoof, then he would have been
    stepping on this rock *every* time he put his foot on the ground.  Much
    worse than stepping on it once and getting a bruise.  He could have an
    abcess caused by it, etc.  I'd have a vet check him and maybe do an
    x-ray.

I agree with .1, and if a stone worked it's way in, then something else may have
worked in and have caused an abcess.

I had a similar experience with one of mine this spring. Off and on lame, even
three legged lame at one point. I was afraid it was a coffin bone fracture, 
then my blacksmith found the abcess.

I know several people who have had problems with abcesses this year.

    Yep, our Thoroughbred was laid off for 7 months last year with an
    abcess. X-rays finally revealed it, after several attempts at
    guess work before having them taken. I'd recommend having them right
    off the bat, we'd began worrying about navicular and finally requested
    that the vet take them (she didn't want to x-ray originally). They
    revealed the abcess, relieved our minds by revealing no signs of
    navicular, and after a hoof-resection horse is just fine now. Good
    luck, I know it's how frustrating lamenesses can be!
    

    And the added advantage to finding out what it is is that then you can
    treat it properly to help it heal.
    
    Mary

    I have never had to have my horse x-rayed.   Can anyone tell me
    approximately how much it costs and where is it done?
    
    Thanks.
    
    L

    I don't know what the price tag is these days, but your vet should be
    able to do it right where your horse is.  They've been using portable
    machines for some 20 years now.
    
    Mary

    It's done in your barn.  Costs vary.
    
    -ellie

    
    A good blacksmith should be able to tell you if it's an abcess or not -
    sometimes they can get to it and drain it if it's not too deep.
    
    Usually abcesses will cause a LOT of heat in the foot.
    
    Good luck
    
    Amy

    
    
    If you had the pads cut out of both feet, you could try polticing them.
    Poltice will make the feet grow faster so you'd want to do both feet
    not just the injured one.  Here's how I do it, first I cut the corner
    of a grainbag, a square of about 10"x10" for the cover.  Take poltice
    and smear it all over the bottom of the foot, then put the foot in a
    1 gallon plastic bag.  Put the foot down with the plastic bag on it and
    fill around the foot with poltice.  Pick the foot back up and put it
    into the grain bag you cut, so the toe is right in the corner.  Wrap
    the two "wings" of the grainbag firmly around the ankle and tape well
    with black  electricians tape.  Also run a strip or two of tape around
    the heel and over the whole hoof.  I have also wrapped the foot in 
    vet wrap, which seems to keep them from chewing it.  If its an abcess
    or gravel, this will help draw it out, I've had very good luck with 
    this method.  The only problem is the horse has to stay in or it will
    just wear off.  

    
    If it is a stone bruise or an abcess should he be kept as quiet as
    possible?   Also what type of poltice do you use?
    

    If its a stone bruise, you want to keep the horse on soft footing, so
    if his turnout is rocky or if he won't stay quiet, you may have to keep
    him in.
     
    Soaking the foot in warm water and epsom salts for 15-20 minutes/day
    is good for either problem.  Add as much epsom salts to the water as 
    will be dissolved.   
    
    Mary

    Also, did the tripping start before or after the lameness?  If he was
    tripping before the lameness, then it could indicate a more serious
    problem, such as navicular or ringbone.

    The tripping began before this lameness.  He sort of stumbles, like he
    is being lazy picking up his feet.  He has been doing this for about 1
    year or so usually when we are doing ring work... (He HATES ring work)
    so just attributed it to that.
    
    I never thought to seriously about it before.  Now that I read up on
    navicular I am worried.  
    
    The lameness came on all of a sudden and it
    was severe, after a few days it was much better.  You can tell he is
    favoring it at the walk and at the trot is very noticeable.  When I ask
    him to trot he gets pretty mad.
    
    The blacksmith is coming tonight, hopefully he'll tell me it's just a
    stone bruise.
    
    Lisa
    

    We had a similar problem last year which was neither a stone bruise nor
    an abcess. The horse had been a bit "ouchy" on one foreleg for a couple
    days, so I thought it was a stone bruise. We live on a gravel road and
    he limps like a cripple the minute he picks up a stone in his shoe!
    But, the symptoms went on too long for a simple stone bruise so we had
    the vet come out to take a look at it.
    
    The original problem was in the vet's opinion a laceration
    to the sole which was possibly caused by a sharp stone. A pocket of
    blood had later formed inside the hoof at the site of the cut. The vet
    pared the sole to drain the blood and bandaged the foot. After a few
    days, the bandage wore off and we had to rinse the foot with Betadine
    compund for about a week. Then we had him shod with pads to protect the
    sole until it healed up. After he was re-shod, he went back to work.
    
    There was no pus or other sign of infection, just a pocket of blood
    from the original injury. This was another horse who had never been
    lame in his 16 years. Hopefully, your horse's lameness will be as easy
    to resolve.

    The blacksmith didn't find anything wrong with the hoof.  There were
    not signs of a stone bruise or an abcess.  We did find some swelling in
    the tendon running behind the knee to the ankle.   I put a poultice on it
    last night.  If it's not better in a few days I'll call the vet.  I
    didn't see this swelling when he was first lame and after we found the
    stone under the pad I assumed that was the cause. Since I didn't really
    inspect the leg real close I don't know how long the swelling has been
    there.
    
    I could tell it was real sore, he didn't like putting weight on the
    sore leg while the blacksmith was shoeing him.  I wish I would have
    continued checking his legs instead of assuming the stone was the
    problem.  I have no idea how he could have injured himself.  He had not
    been ridden when he turned up lame.  I don't know the specific name of
    the tendon that is swollen, it runs down the back of the leg behind the
    knee to the ankle.  It is swollen is two places and there is heat
    associated with it.  Has anyone experience this type of injury?  If so,
    how did your horse do it?
    
    Lisa  
                             

    This past spring, my mare came up lame all of a sudden also.  After 
    speaking about the lameness with the vet on the phone, we put her on
    1 bute morning and evening and just hand walked her. 
    
    The lameness persisted and we opted for x-rays.  The x-ray showed
    a slight seperation of the hoof at the 'white line'. This, so it
    seems, is a rather sensitive area in the hoof.
    
    So, I started to poultice it, (I had been previously soaking with
    warm water and epsom salt thinking it could be an abcess), and 
    put her back on bute for 1 week.  My blacksmith trimmed her when
    she was long enough and put toe clip type shoes on the front.
    
    She's fine now, and going great once again.  My advice, don't think
    too much about the worst possible cases, (I did this initially, and
    it only made me crazy), approach it as a minor lameness, and go
    from there.
    
    By the way, my mare is 19...and she does trip occasionally...they
    all do to some extent don't they?
    
    Good luck, and try not to worry too much! ;)
    
    Deb

    Yep....my QH had swelling and heat in one of his front
    legs from the back of the knee to the ankle.  At first,
    it was thought he had bowed a tendon, but it was actually
    the casing (?) above and surrounding the tendon that he 
    had injured.
    The vet speculated that he had injured it by stepping in a
    hole while galloping out in the turnout field, causing him
    to twist the leg and injuring it......
    
    Anyway, the treatment was:  6 weeks in the stall, no turnout,
    with a "sweat leg treatment".  That is, I had to smear his
    leg with furazone paste, wrap it in saran (plastic) wrap,
    then wrap a quilted leg wrap around the plastic wrap,
    and then wrap a bandage around to hold it on.  He was to be
    wrapped for twelve hours, and then it left off for twelve hours.
    Every day, for six weeks.  This caused the fluid to come out
    of the leg, hence "sweating".  By the end of the six weeks,
    he was being hand walked.  He healed perfect....
    
    Lynne
    
    	
    

    
    Since nobody mentioned, everybody must think it is obvious but I'm
    going to point it out anyway -
    
    Shoes are removed when the xray is taken. Most (if not all) vets can
    remove the shoes. So, in addition to the expense of having the xrays
    taken, you have to pay the farrier to replace the shoes.
    
    I advocate talking the vet as soon as possible - why wait? Your regular
    vet surely would talk to you on the phone without charge. He or she
    will have an opinion about taking pictures.
    
    Nancy
    

    That's interesting, our vets have never pulled a shoe to take foot
    Xrays. I wonder why the difference in practice? Oh well
    
    If the horse is that lame that he doesn't want to put weight on it to
    be shod, CALL THE VET! Even if the problem is a minor one, you'll
    sleep easier and the horse will recover quicker if you get it looked at
    sooner rather than later.

    
    
    Funny thing about removing the shoe before X-raying, my mare
    inadvertantly pulled the shoe off on the leg that was bothering
    her--all by her lonesome! 
    
    I found it in her stall before I called the vet...maybe she's 
    got hoof pullers in there somewhere...! ;)
    
    Deb

Vets pull the shoe before x-raying so that they get a clearer picture of
what's in the hoof.  Steel shoes reflect a lot and take away from the general
clarity of the 'internals' of the hoof.

    I figured that out, Kathy. I used to track airplanes with radar for a
    living so I know metal reflects energy beams. What I was asking is why
    some vets *DON'T* pull the shoes!
    
    John

    
    Maybe they were looking at something besides the hoof but I'd ask a lot
    of questions if it was my vet.
    
    Nancy
    

John,

	That was more for general reference, not insinuating that you weren't
intellegent.  
	As for *why* a particular vet opts to not pull shoes?  maybe they're
being lazy?  (I've also seen vets really shred a hoof by not being careful 
about how they remove the shoe)

    I knew that, Kathy. I was just teasing. But you should notice that I
    used "dumb" instead of trying to spell something longer!

    Infact my horse did not have a stone bruise at all.  He has a bowed
    tendon.  The vet says rest till spring.
    
    Lisa