Conference noted::equitation

    <Hello Amanda, I leased a horse for about a year and both I and
    the owner signed a contract that said we wouldn't sue each other
    and that I was responsible for vet bills up to the value of the
    horse (we stated the value in the contract). Luckily nothing happened
    to cause a problem so I don't know if it would have held up in court.
    I've seen ads in horse mags that sell lease contracts that have
    been drawn up by lawyers which are probably more detailed than what
    I had. In this sue happy age it's better to be safe. liesl           

    I have been involved with a couple of leases and as it had been
    explained to me (a few years ago), a contract drawn up between the
    leasee and the leasor is legally binding and I definitely suggest
    having a witness or 2 sign also! If the horse is insured for mortality
    and something happens to it, sad to say, but the owner gets the
    money anyway. If something happens surgery, etc. then some insurance
    policies can be purchased which cover surgical costs. I would suggest
    having a lawyer draw up a contract and also I think it might be
    a good idea to have x-rays, and a vet check done before you start
    the lease so that if something shows up on the x-rays before you
    take the horse, you won't be responsible for creating the shadows,
    etc. In the contract, state exactly (to the cents) who is responsible
    for what costs, care, expenses, etc. are incurred. Yearly leases
    are common so you might want to have an annually renewable lease,
    again to protect the both of you!
    
    Good luck and I hope all works out!
    
    Linda
    

    
                 
    I would have to agree to a contract.  I have never leased but have
    thought of leasing one or two of my horses.  I purchased a paper-
    back, inexpensive and full of information on leasing and contracts.
    It's THE LEGAL HAZZLES WITH HORSES.  I have lent it out to someone
    else, otherwise, I would have typed in the chapter on leases,
    which was full of valuable information and precautions.  It did
    stress a written contract, specifying responsibilities for both
    parties.  It was also protection for both parties so that each
    would know who would be responsible if something went wrong. Some
    of the topics it covered were:
    
               Fire
               Theft
               Illness
               Accidents (to both horse and leasee)
               Death
    
    It also mentioned many other circumstances that we may not consider
    when leasing our own horse or leasing someone else's.  One such
    topic was leasing a horse to breed it or leasing a horse that has
    been bred.
    
    Good luck!
    
    

    I am leasing a broodmare from a friend who has no room to keep her.
    In the lease, I am responsible for her care and feeding and am required
    to purchase mortality insurance.  I am also responsible for returning
    the mare with a paid breeding to a particular stallion.  The foals
    I get from my breedings are mine to keep, although I know that this
    is a negotiable issue.
    
    I hadn't thought about surgery insurance.  Good point!!  Sad to
    say, but if the mare were to survive the surgery, I could never
    afford to pay it.  Don't get me wrong; that wouldn't prevent me
    from having the surgery if there were ANY chance she could survive.

    Leasing is a great way to go if you don't have the cash to lay out
    for a new horse.

    
    
    what do people put in a lease to keep them from getting sued.
    ex what if the horse falls on ice and breaks her/his leg and has
    to be destroyed?  what if the horse gets loose and gets hit by a
    car, totaling the car, killing the horse.
    what if the horse pokes an eye out from a nail in the barn or pasture?
    what if a kid comes up suddenly behind the horse and gets kicked?
    
    	i kniw these things *can happen... but how do you write a contract
    so that both parties will be protected>>??
    
    	thanks wendy
    
    	

    I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU TALK TO A LAWER AND GET THEIR OPPION ON
    THIS. I TOO LEASE OUT ONE OF MY HORSES AND I WROTE UP A SMALL
    CONTRACT OR AGREEMENT THAT BOTH PARTIES HAVE TO SIGN. I STAE IN
    IT THAT WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INJURIES TO THE RIDER OR
    OTHERS WIHILE THE HORSE IS IN THEIR CARE. THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE TO
    REPLACE THE HORSE IF DEATH IS CAUSED BY THEIR NEGLAGENCE BUT NOT
    IF A NATURAL CAUSE. IT'S REALLY HARD TO COVER EVERY ITM THATS WHY
    I WOULD GET TOGETHER A A LAWER FROM YOUR STATE.
    
    GOOD LUCK. LIKE TO HEAR WHAT YOU DO.
    
    TERRY

    There are a number of books available on the subject of Equine Law
    and contracts.  You could check with your public library to see
    if they have one.  Most libraries in Massachusetts have a reciprocal
    lending agreement with a large city library and can therefore get
    books which aren't normally available in a small town.  Most of
    these books contain sample contracts that can be copied.  Some tack
    shops even have multicopied contract forms for sale.  Note however
    that most (all?) contracts I have seen do not hold the leasee
    responsible for accidental injury or death.  If you are the leaser
    you should make sure that whatever form you use provides you the
    right to end the lease if, in YOUR opinion, the animal is not being
    properly cared for.
    
    Bob
    

    You may want to tailor the agreement specifically to the arrangement
    you have with the leasee - for instance, if either party wishes
    to terminate the lease, they are required to give a month's notice,
    or if surgery is required, that the leasee is responsible for a
    reasonable amount of the cost (such as an amount you would pay 
    yourself to cover medical costs) - for instance you may pay $2500
    for colic surgery if it looks like the horse will recover, but would
    you pay $5000 if the chances were very slim that the horse would
    survive?  In that case, you might set a limit of $2500 that the
    leasee is responsible for in veterinary bills if something happens
    as a result of mistreatment or mismanagement on his part.  If
    you are including your own tack in the agreement, you may want to
    state that the leasee is responsible for replacing any damaged or
    destroyed tack with its equivalent - you could go on forever, but
    a meeting with a lawyer is a good suggestion since he/she can tell
    you what's important to put in and if you are leaving anything out.

    
    I am interested in leasing a horse, but am wondering if the
    investigative legal work makes the prospect not as worthwhile
    as buying.  For example, in leasing a horse, I would assume
    that the person who wanted to lease the horse would have
    to have a vet-check done so that any problems the horse has
    before being leased would be discovered.  This would eliminate
    any chance of getting blamed for a leased horse's medical problems
    upon return to the owner, right ?  
    
    Well, what if the horse, through no reason of the leasor, contracts
    something like colic and dies, or escapes from the property and
    does damage to itself/other's property/someone else...some flukie
    thing that although unlikely, is possible....?
    
    Can anyone out there provide me with more information on the legal
    topics of leasing a horse?  Are lease agreements regarding horses
    typically signed in the prescence of a lawyer and notarized and
    all that biz ?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Sue

    I am not sure of the legalities but we have leased many a horse
    to folks and have had no problems.
    Each of the cases has been on an individual basis.  Some of the
    arrangements that we have made are:
    Total care of the animal while it is in your possession.
    Usually if it leaves the property we require insurance (individual
    again).
    Many times it has been a "free" lease other than maintaining the
    animal.
    Any of the horses that we have leased have left our place healthy.
    We would never knowingly lease a horse with any kind of a physical
    condition unless the leasor was aware of it and agreed.
    If you would like more information, please give me a call...617-422-
    7412 (after 8 in the evening).
    Be sure whomever you deal with is reputable...VERY VERY important.
    
    Good luck
    

    Mortality insurance is one of the best deals on the market for someone
    who wants to lease a horse, especially if you intend to breed the
    animal. 
    
    I'm leasing a mare for "free," although I'm supposed to return her
    in foal or with a paid breeding to a certain stallion.  She is insured
    for full mortality; I pay the premiums, with the owner as lienholder.
    
    I'm leasing a stallion for showing/breeding.  He's insured for full
    mortality plus nonfertility.
    
    While insurance isn't cheap, it's worth the peace of mind.  It also
    settles ahead of time the worth of the horse in everyone's -- including
    the insurer -- mind.

    A.L. -
    
    Well, I would have various misgivings about letting people
    on my property....
    
    The main issue is, if they get hurt, they will sue me,
    and I would lose all that I was trying to keep.
    
    I have seen the way some horses are treated by "renters".
    "Abusive" is the key word here.
    They have no sense of kindness when "they" are paying for
    something.  They expect the horse to go fast, as long as
    they want it to.  They think nothing of the horse other than
    it is a mechanical vehicle.  Give it a drink of water?  Not
    on my time!  Won't go were I want it to?  Break off a stick
    and hit it, it will!  Won't go fast enough? It will if you
    hit it!  (I know of someone who taped tacks to his heels
    so as to make the horse go faster! sick!)  The public has
    no respect for your horses, or your property.
    Lessons?  At least you would be able to monitor the treatment
    of your horses.  I worked at a stable that gave lessons, and
    if you didn't watch the riders, mostly the kids, the horse would
    be put away in it's stall still hot, or in the wrong stall, and
    the equipment would be left on the floor, or put in the wrong
    place.  
    Leasing?  I prefer this idea.  Use word of mouth to find friends
    of friends who would like to lease a horse for an inexpensive
    price.  Get a leasing agreement typed up so that what is expected
    from the leaser/leasee is on paper.    
    
    Another con is the lack of privacy all the above create.
    
    The only pro I can think of would be the $$$$.
    
    Hope I haven't sounded to pessimistic.  
                                         
    Lynne

    
    
    Leaseing would be the way I would go.. My parents owned a 
    stable for 10 years and it was my chore to bring them out on 
    trails, walk them after (its really not worth the money). The horses
    get abused even if you watching them. 
    
    Any way with leasing.  You could draw up a contract that
    the people would have guide lines on when they could be at the
    barn say the hours from 6:00 in morning to 9:00 at night.  And
    All horse have to be in for feeding when you feed.
    
    Lesson could be made available and they could use the horses that
    they are leasing.
    
    There are alot of people out there that would love to lease as 
    long as the price isn't too crazy.
    
    

    My husband and I plan on retiring (me from Digital and he from his own
    business) in a few more years.  Our hope is to be somewhere warm for
    the winter months....Therefore, do I keep my horses and board for three
    months.  Or do I perhaps find someone who would allow me to ride in
    exhchange for either money, or help with chores, or a little of both.
    
    I have had three very good experiences with people using my horses
    and one bad.  All were knowledgable horse people, but that doesn't 
    necessarily make them the kind you would want to ride you horses. I
    only had them pay for shoes and help with maintenance of barn and
    stalls.  
    
    I don't think your idea is that bad, you just have to find the right
    people and set down the rules ahead of time.  I, personally, wouldn't
    let anyone who was a beginner ride one of my horses.  It took too long
    to get them where they are.
    
    As far as losing everything if someone gets hurt. You would definitely
    have to have liability insurance.  BUT, as far as losing your home, you
    can file with either the clerk of courts or where your deed is, a form
    called the homestead form.  It protects you from anyone taking your
    home.  I'm in the process of acquiring a form now.  I was told you can
    get a form at a stationary store.  So if anyone has anymore info,
    please let me know... 
    
    Now that I've been rambling, the bottom line is ....i vote for leasing.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Now if we could only put those, dogs and cats for work!!!
    
    Caryl

    Thank you for the feedback everyone..! I believe you are all
    probably right in most cases. I worked for a "Riding Stable"
    in Ashburnham Ma and another in Vernon Conn. in my youth. All
    rides were managed with a lead rider like myself but some of
    the things people Would Have done to the horses, given the chance,
    made me sick. And most to them thought horses galloped for (3)
    hours like their TV favorites!
    
    I had to get away from the public and animals by my 20's. The
    horses had more sense than most of our customers...
    
    I will start a new note with Leasing questions...I don't know
    anything about Leasing or how it is supposed to work.
    
                                          thanks again    Amy

    Anyone have any input on what an "On premises lease agreement" for
    a horse should entail?  
    
    Lynne

    Lynne-
    
    I have a catalogue which has all sorts of forms for the horse
    industry printed up.  I got Bill of sales from them.  My boarding
    agreement also came from there.
    
    	Try:  	The Book Stable, Inc.
    	        5326 Tomahawk TRail
    		Fort Wayne, IN 46804
    
    	or call 1-800-274-2665 for a catalogue.

    My husband and I have done a number of leases...never on farm.  However
    the off farm ones were what both parties agreed to...no cost, care,
    insurance, etc.
    It does help to write down the agreement so that there is no
    misunderstanding between the two parties.
    
    Good luck...it has worked very well for us, however, I do do a thorough
    screening.  If they don't like it then they don't take the horse.
    
    Kathie
    

    
    		I'm looking for a copy of a lease on premisis.
    		does anyone have a copy they could send or mail to 
    		me.  Someone is free leasing one of my mares, in our
    		barn and paying me board.
    
    				thanks for any help...
    
    					lora, dtn 223-3698
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