Conference noted::equitation

    Is it for indoors or out? I have seen many things used indoors
    including shredded rubber which works great but smells bad on those
    hot summer days. Many barns use shavings same as the stalls but
    this gets very dusty and has to be watered down all the time. There
    is a company marketing a product called Fibar which looks like what
    you get when you run dry twigs thru a small shredder. Coarser than
    shavings but still small enough for good footing. They say it can
    be used in outdoor rings but you would have to keep adding it as
    it will rot down some. A local barn just put it in so I haven't
    seen what is like in the summer as far as dust.
    
    Sandy
    

re: fibar 

	You're only seeing the surface.  From what I understand, there are
	many layers of different materials.  I've ridden on a Fibar surface
	and really liked it (considering the surrounding area was very hard).
	

					-Caroline

	

    I am also building a ring in the Spring.
    
    I was wondering how much it will cost.  My husband is predicting
    $2,000 not including fencing. He said we will need a bulldozer and
    several truck loads of dirt (I heard washed sand was best, but not
    sure).  If he is correct, than we won't be able to get the fencing
    up this year, either that or put up electric temporarily and then
    I can also use it for a turnout if need be.
    
    The area where the ring will be is at a slight slant but it is totally
    cleared.
    
    And I thought it would be cheaper to keep my horse at home, ugh!
    
    Thanks!
    
    Sue
    

    The ring will be outdoors,  2,000$ without the fencing, can you
    ask him to break that down a little,  would it be a base of the
    washed sand and then something else over that,  how big did you
    plan it.  I'll ride on the loam for that price.  I know the bulldozers
    are expensive.  If you can find them, there are places that will
    swap sand and bulldozer service for the loam.  Thats how a friend
    of mine got her ring for almost no cost.
    
    Keep the ideas coming and thanks.

One of the recent issues of EQUUS had a detailed article on building a riding
arena.  They looked at all types of footing and detailed what should go under
it, too.  I can't remember the exact issue though.  They also gave some idea
as to price.  Depending on what kind of soil you are building your ring on, you
may need more or less subsurface for drainage and that definitely affects the
overall cost.  So one thing to check right away is what kind of soil do you 
have.

At our old farm we built an arena outdoors just using bark mulch.  We were
very fortunate to have sand/gravel subsoil there.  We had someone remove the
top soil, level the area, and truck in and spread the bark mulch.  Now we have
soil with a lot of clay in it to build an arena on.  Needless to say we are
going to have to put some drainage layers under the arena surface this time!

If I find the EQUUS issue, I'll try to remember to post which one it is.

						Jan

	Since bringing my horse home last summer (and building a barn,
clearing a pasture, putting up fencing, phew) the riding ring has had
to wait.  A temporary solution to the horrible footing (that was
doing a job on my horses feet) and has worked out fairly well 
was to put down sawdust.  The entire pasture is rocks and clay and that
clay can get really slippery when wet and turns into cement during the
dry summer months.  I've found that the sawdust is keeping most of the 
area from getting too soupy (and do we have soup in the spring!) - the 
ground is firmer and the rocks don't seem to be "growing" as fast in 
the sawdust/clay areas as in other parts of the pasture.  I realize this 
isn't the best material for a pasture - it's going to be a long time 
before it turns into topsoil (and will need lots of lime and fertilizer) 
but it was a cheap/quick solution (and the shoes are staying on for 8 weeks ;^).

    The livery stable where i keep our horse over here in Ireland has
    just had to renovate its outdoor arena and it cost 2000 Pounds STerling
    thats about $3500.
    
    	Ireland being a wet country it means that good drainage is
    essential. This cost included scrapping off the surface down to
    the existing drainage pipes. Taking away the top river bed gravel
    surface relaying another layer of hard core and relaying a working
    surface of "pea gravel" or "river bed" gravel.(the old gravel had
    to be removed since it had compacted and also alot of it had broken
    down to dirt and not allowing drainage.
    
    	Also it is essential that the surface is loosened regularily
    to prevent compacting.
    
    
    	Another surface which i have seen outdoors is cinders which
    for light work appears to be very good.
    
    
    		regards Gareth
    
    p.s. the arena is 20 by 40 metres 
    
    	Your terminology is different over there as i have found in
    aprevious note (716) so I'll explain what i mean.
    
    	Pea gravel or river bed gravel is small stones about the size
    of peas which have been rolled as if they have been on the bed of
    a river to make them smooth. Hard core is store about 4/5 inches,
    rough like what is under the Tarmac surface of a road.
    
    	Bulldozer drivers and the hire of the bulldozer are expensive
    over here ie. about $20 per hour.
    
    	This gives you good drainage but expensive. The menage is used
    3/4 times a day since there is also a school at the stables so it
    does get alot of work.

    I found the article in EQUUS (thanks for all your input).
    
    $2000 + is about right, without fencing....
    
    They mention the FIBAR that was talked about in the previous replys.
    They also recommend the washed sand.  Maybe what I will do is remove
    the top soil and put down the washed sand this year and then add
    a surface next year.  I have been riding on a mowed hay field since
    we moved in and its not too bad except for the very early spring.
    I really wanted the fencing this year.
    
    keep the ideas coming and thanks

    Hi,
    
    My husband and I just put our ring in last summer.  Our ring is
    100 x 175.  We had a machine come in and strip off the topsoil,
    then we added fill to level it off.  Then we used stone dust, we
    do have a large tractor so my husband was able to spread it himself
    which saved us mucho money on machine cost.  The stone dust is
    absolutelywonderful, I rode on it all winter without any problem,
    the drainage it terrific.  I don't recall how many tons we had
    delivered but we probably have about 2 -3 inches on the surface.
     You can also mix some sand with this for better drainage but we
    will not be doing that.  The only thing with the stone dust is it
    is much more expensive than clay or sand, but I think it is worth
    it when you can ride on it all year.
    
    Good luck with your ring.  

    
    	I just had my driveway done with stone dust last summer,
    	because I was told that it packs almost as hard as cement.
    	When it was dry, it was indeed very hard. Couldn't this
    	be a problem for a riding ring?
    
    	-j

    This coming spring we will be clearing about 3 acres, and leveling
    it for a future barn/rings site. The barn will not be started for
    another year or two, but I plan to construct the ring right away...the
    mare at home has no place to do work and has just been trail ridden
    for the past year she has been there. I miss working with her, and
    cannot wait to start up again! I am wondering if those of you out
    there who have rings at home could offer some ideas on surfacing....
    mentioned in this note previously were clay and sand. Clay?? Really??
    I am not real familiar with it, but it seems like it would be awfully
    expensive and require a lot of maintainence. My (of course!) objective
    is something that is inexpensive (the excavation is costing me 3
    grand already). I am curious about rings with sand...is it expensive
    to buy truckloads, and is that considered the best? How is it in
    winter? Sawdust of a possibility (I have access to it for free),
    but a neighbor uses it and his horses are cannon-deep in it. Seems
    like a lot of strain on their legs...but perhaps he did not fill
    right...does anyone use that?? I also read in Practical Horseman
    this month about a woman in Cal. who filled with wood chips/bark
    mulch (is there a difference between these two?)....I am concerned
    about the price of that, plus the possibility of slippery-when-wet??
    And last, the barn where I board my other horse uses, both indoors
    and out, the manure pile contents. Really. They mulch it up well
    with a tractor and spread it around the rings. I was amazed when
    I first realized this, but it seems to work fairly well. I doubt
    my one mare could produce enough to keep the ring maintained though.
    I do plan to fence the area with dressage-type borders, ei: low
    to the ground planks going between cement blocks (which will have
    the dressage letters painted on), and I already have tons of
    jump materials....any ideas anyone can offer?? Thanks!
    
    
    

    There's a great article from about a year ago in Equus magazine
    about riding surfaces.  I've been saving it for the same reason.
    I plan to create a riding ring for my kids.  I'll look it up tonight
    and send you the date and edition.  As I recall, one option was
    sand and sawdust mixed on top of a crushed stone (for drainage)
    base.
    
    Good luck,  I hope you (we) get some great suggestions.
    
    John Wood

    
    There is an article in February's Practical Horseman about setting 
    up rings.  I just received my copy Friday.

    I checked the Equus article.  It's in February 1989's issue #136.
    
    I'm going to look up the one in Practical Horseman too.
    
    Regards,
    
    John Wood

    
    Thanks John!
    
    I will defineatly try to get a copy of that Equus issue. I just
    got my copy of Practical Horseman, but unless I missed it, I only
    saw the article about someone in Cal. who built a barn and ring
    and paddocks...she had used wood chips. That is one thing I am
    considering, but I want to see what else is recommended. I do
    notice  wood chip rings at shows from time to time.
    
    Linda
    

    
    I get so confused.  Maybe it was in last week's Chronicle.  
    
    I'll check it out.  (Too many magazines came the same day.)

    I'm wondering if anyone with a sand outdoor ring can offer some
    maintainance advise? We have finally, after about a year's wait,
    gotten to the point of having our ring done (they are starting
    today). It will be a clay base (available onsite in the back
    area of our property, thank god) with 6 inches of washed sand
    on top. It is to be about 170 x 60 or so in size, and a bit kidney-
    shaped due to an already exsisting fence line that would be a major
    ordeal to move. It will also double as a paddock for two horses.
    I realize that I will have to pick up droppings, and probably rake
    at times, but does this mixture need to be watered down frequently
    to avoid dust problems? Thanks!
    

    Not much activity in this topic lately - thought I'd ask how people are
    going with their arenas?  I just got mine in this summer.  It's 90 x
    130.  We got an agreement with an excavator to take the loam in
    exchange for all the excavating work and the fill material (up to the 
    total yardage taken of loam).  I think we saved alot of money doing it
    this way - besides that we had no use for the leftover loam.  Once the
    bulldozer started stripping the loam we found that our ledge table
    extended the entire area.  Good news in fight against stones pushed up
    by frost heaves and since it slopes downhill - there shouldn't be any
    water buildup.  The bad news is the slope required that we had to build
    up one side (over a foot) to maintain enough material over the high
    side of the ledge.  My husband is building a retaining wall out of
    stone - with pressure treated 2x to hold everything in long enough to
    finish the wall (most of the fill is in place).  Once the wall is done,
    I'd like to have a few more loads brought in to level it out (still has
    a bit of slope to it).  
    
    	I've read that you can leave a 2% slope for water drainage and not
    notice the slope - can anyone disagree with this?  I have only minor
    sloping and definitely notice it (horse slow going uphill, faster going
    downhill - makes it tough to maintain rhythm.  I'm sure the current
    slope is more than 2% - not sure how much though.
    
    	I've got 6"-12" (varying) of sand/clay mix.  The footing is soft in
    some spots (where there's less clay) - would anyone cap the arena with 
    something else?  Incidentally, this material has been dusty with our
    dry summer.  All this recent rain has improved it - seems to be
    draining well and is setting up firmer.  Any suggestions?
    
    Thanks,
    
    	JB

    My ring is a clay base with 6" of clay/sand on top of that, and it is
    QUITE deep in spots. It's about 2 years old now. It rarely puddles
    though, the drainage is good and it does have a slight slope from the
    center to all sides. I dont know the degree of the slope, it is not at
    all noticable when riding. Doing it again, I would have gone with less
    sand/clay mix, maybe 3-4 inches.  I realize it needs to be leveled with
    a tractor, it is long overdue, but I dont have a tractor and the hand
    rake is not particularly effective (not to mention exhausting). When
    I can afford to, I plan to rent a bobcat with a york rake attachment
    and do it that way. I was lucky in building mine, our land IS clay, so
    the base was already there, it simply needed to have some tree stumps
    removed and be leveled a bit. I do have dust when it doenst rain for
    awhile, I simply run a sprinkler out there a few nites a week and it's
    fine.
    

    Re .last with tongue partly in cheek.
    
    The most obvious way to level the ring is to hitch your horse to a drag
    and do it as part of your training programme. A low cost drag can be
    made out of wire mesh fencing on a couple of planks.
    
    What! Your horse doesn't know how to pull? Isn't he one of the
    "versatile" breeds? :-) 
    
    Work in harness used to be considered part of basic training for a
    horse during the last century.
    
    Yes, my horse does know how to work the drag. At the barn where I keep
    him I have an old railroad tie that I use to pull dirt from the edge of
    the ring back into the "track" as it gets worn. I also use the barn
    owner's drag (wire mesh as described above) to level the ring off. It's
    an evening's exercise for both of us.

    I've thought of that. My horse is a Standardbred - retired racer - so
    oh yes, she certainly does know how to pull. Im just not sure how FAST
    I want to drag this ring! :-) Also, I dont own a harness, and the cost
    of THAT investment would probably pay for a bobcat rental. Unless
    someone knows a way to fashion a makeshift harness that would be safe
    for the horse and effective without costing a small fortune ??
    

    Linda,
    
    Want to buy a cheap harness?  *8^}  Seriously, I have 4 harnesses and
    1 horse, so I could easily spare one!  Your mare will probably shock 
    you and do this very easily, standardbreds are very sensible horses.
    
    Linda

    
    I made a drag out of a section of wire fencing, and use the
    rider mower (which is actually a tractor) to drag my ring.
    
    You could do the same, and pull it with a truck.....make sure
    there is enough weight on the drag (I attach bricks) to make
    it work........
    
    

    I'm lucky enough to have a tractor and rake, but in between I drag the
    ring with my husbands four wheeler (when he lets me) and use an old 
    bed frame thing for a drag.  It works great, I just had to cut of 2 
    short bars that were sticking up so it would lie flat.

    Hm, well I could easily enough make a drag, I'll have to give some
    thought to various ways to haul it around....I love the idea of having
    my mare pull it, I have ground driven her with long reins run through
    run-up stirrups and she was fine.  I'll have to talk hubby into this,
    maybe I can convince him getting a cheap harness would be
    cost-efficient! :-)
    

    From reading all the notes on rings, it sounds like a sand ring
    might be the best, cost effective surface.  
    
    Mine is finally getting done today and tomorrow.  It will be a major
    project stumping, and leveling out a 7' grade w/ large boulder retaining 
    wall (what a nice way to use up all that unneeded building material).
    
    If you did a clay sand mix, how did you guys get it mixed?  At the
    site?  In the dump truck?
    
    Thanks-
    
    	Michele

    My ring is fine sand and sawdust, the guy mixed it up by dumping
    several piles of each and then used the 'arm' of his back hoe like a
    hand to stir it to together, I think he may have also used a loader to
    scoop and dump it. It took a while but was surprizingly consistant when
    he was done. Then he spread it.
    
    Sharon

    My ring is a clay base with the sand spread on top.  The excavator
    mixed the two together somewhat with a dozer, but over time (this was
    done about 4 years ago) they have mixed together more just through
    daily use, etc.  
    

    How much sand is on top?  A couple of inches?  Is it tough to ride in?
    

    I had 4 inches put down originally.  At first it seemed deep, but in
    time it packs down, washes away in rain, etc.  Now it's perfect, not at
    all tough to ride in.  I love it! It does require maintenance, though.
    You will probably get a 'track' around the outside where you do most of
    your riding, etc, your mileage will vary.  I only do ringwork 3 nites
    a week, so it doesn't get excessive use (I use my weekend time for
    trail riding, my own personal chosen discipline).  I rake the outside
    track when it gets worn, about once every month and a half or so.  Not
    having a tractor, I do this by hand, which is a pain, even a small ring
    looks huge when you look at it with a rake in your hand!, although I
    am thinking of attaching a drag to the back of my truck and trying it
    that way.  All in all, I am very glad I went with the sand! It only
    puddles up in the worst of rainy weather, and the puddles drain
    quickly enough, and it doesn't really freeze until severe winter cold,
    either.
    
    

    I have a sand/clay mix base which has packed down quite well over the 
    past year and is good footing without being too deep.  I like to keep
    it dragged/groomed every week - we do this with an old Polaris
    3-wheeler (best $200 I ever spent).  We use an old railroad tie to
    flatten and level the surface.

    Update on the riding ring.
    
    I've finally got my riding ring this year.  It's 80' X 160', and it is
    plenty big enough!  I only wished I had the time to use it. (okay I've
    use it 3 times this summer).
    
    I am slightly disapointed with the washed sand surface though.  It is 
    very deep in areas, and in other spots, it seems to have mixed with
    some dirt/clay from the washout and quite firm.  While the sand is a
    great footing for riding, it is trashing my cart wheels!  I won't even
    drive in the ring becasue of the damage.
    
    I think we are going to wait out the winter and then in the spring
    scrape off some of the sand and lay down stone dust. 
    
    Any comments from the wahsed sand folks on how long it would take to
    settle (like is the winter long enough?)?
    
    Michele
       

    I've had my ring for about 4 years now, and it has firmed up/washed
    away a good deal.  I am very happy with the condition of it right now,
    actually.  At first it did seem too deep.  When sopping wet, it's mucky
    and difficult to get around in, but when dry or only lightly wet it's
    ideal.  It mixed with the clay beneath it very quickly.