Conference noted::equitation

    I'd like some bit suggestions for trail riding my QH.  I've been
    working with Dex since last spring - he was(can still be) heavy on his
    forehand and llleeeaaannnnss on the bit.  Circling, transitions and
    long work have paid off in the ring - he is using himself more and is
    more responsive to downward transitions (which, incidently, took 20
    revolutions around the ring when I got him).  I ride with an egg-butt
    snaffle w/flash since I'm planning to show him in training-level dressage,
    I've refrained from going to a stronger bit - so far, so good in the
    ring. 
    
    	Except on the trail.
    
    	Let's just say he regresses.  He knows all too well his own
    strength.  I know enough to stop him using different rein techniques so
    the situation is controlled but the amount of strength he exerts as he
    clamps down on the bit is unbelievable.  I'm using light at first then
    progressively stronger aids - including my back.  
    
    	I've thought about this alot and am leaning toward using a jointed
    pelham for the trail.  I've researched some articles that say this bit
    can twist and pinch the tongue if the shanks are not connected by a
    solid bar (like the western variety).  Or possibly twisted wire - but I 
    am wondering if the stronger bit will always be needed.
    
    Other than this vice, he is a big doll to work with!
    
    Suggestions?
      
    

    re .792 The Carrot Lady... speak softly and carry a big CARROT!
    
    re .793
    
    Hi Janet,
    
    I have used an eggbutt snaffle-jointed pelham with some success on such
    a horse. I have not experienced any problem with twisting that I am
    aware of. I don't see how the bit could twist any more than a snaffle
    would if it's made correctly and the rider has educated hands. 
    
    Basically, I just use the snaffle and either leave a loop in the curb
    reins or drop them entirely. If/when the horse starts getting strong, I 
    pick up the curb reins and use them. If/when the horse settles, I drop
    the curbs again. 
    
    The alternative that I would use on this horse is a double bridle. This
    would give you even greater discrimination than the jointed pelham. You
    have brakes if and when you need them. The other interseting thing
    about putting a strong horse in a double bridle is that  you don't NEED
    to use the bit. Actually, just the fact that it is there is frequently
    enough to settle them. I had that point demonstrated to me once at van
    Schaik's. I was told not only to drop the curb but to remove the reins
    from the bridle so I COULDN'T use them. The horse still went well.
    
    One precaution you might take if you're concerened about the jointed
    pelham twisting due to uneven use of the curb reins is to ride with both 
    curb reins in your left hand along with the left snaffle rein. If you're not
    familiar with that technique, the curb reins go in between your fingers
    and the snaffle goes outside the pinky. See Podhajsky's "Complete 
    Training of Horse and Rider" for a good diagram and fuller description.
    
    Good luck,
    John

    
    
    I vote for the double bridle .. 
    
    I have seen these work wonders on driving horses that people use 
    on the trail.  (this bridle is not for a novice rider)... 
    
    Donna

    Thanks John and Donna,
    
    	John: while researching alot of material in search of the right bit
    I ran across an article in Equus (apr.92 - 174) written by Dr. Deb
    Bennett, "The Biting Equation".  In this article Dr. Bennett describes
    the actions on the mouth by many bits.  On page 108 she explains the
    Pelham bits and factors involved (height of curb, length of shank,
    etc.)  In the third paragraph she explains "...One last factor that can
    profoundly affect a horse's comfort is whether the shanks of the bit
    are stable.  If the mouthpiece of the bit is in multiple loose pieces,
    like a snaffle bit, it's best for the shanks to be fixed together below
    by a solid bar or plate of a length equal to the mouthpiece.  If they
    are not, pulls on the separate shanks will twist the bit in the horse's
    mouth and are likely to gouge the tongue and palate in the process...".
    
    The method of holding the rein as you describe (and I do have a
    thorough description in "Riding Logic" by Museler) would minimize this
    rein effect.  In using this bit, my strategy was to continue working
    with a snaffle and pick up the curb reins only as needed (ie: brakes on
    the trail).  I agree that same holds true with a Weymouth - which I may try
    first.  My only concern is continuing to use a snaffle in the ring after
    using the Weymouth (ie: increased oblivion to the milder bit).
    
    Donna: I agree that a Weymouth bridle doe's not belong in the hands of
    a rider who still hasn't developed independant seat and hands.   

    I am glad to see that this is a common issue since I have a couple of
    horses that definitely need different bits for in the ring versus on
    the trail.  We discovered a big difference mostly in riding with an
    eggbutt snaffle and a kimberwick (sp?) and the absolute difference in
    handling the horses on the trail.  It has been equally important for us
    to remember to use the snaffle in the ring as to use the kimberwick on
    the trail, especially when a novice is in the ring and especially when
    an inexperienced or younger rider needs help controlling an over-eager
    trail mount.

    My mare when I first broke her to saddle 7 years ago had exactly the
    opposite problem, I could and often did ride her bareback in a
    halter/leadline on the trails, but in the ring she was high-headed and
    hard to handle. I tried several different bits, all with varying
    results, and found that while the stronger ones (Pelham and
    Kimberwicke) afforded me more control, they also made the horse 
    nervous....so I put her back into a rubber snaffle and did a lot of 
    circle work, patience with her was the best training tool of all. She
    was a bit unusual to work with back then in that she'd just come off
    the harness track and had as much to *unlearn* as new things *to*
    learn. Now 7 yrs later she is fine in anywhere in a light full-cheek
    snaffle (and still trail rides in a halter). :-)  Good luck!
    

>My only concern is continuing to use a snaffle in the ring after
>using the Weymouth (ie: increased oblivion to the milder bit).

For dressage work, I find a horse can become heavy in a double bridle, and 
much lighter in just a snaffle.   Sometimes even lighter in a hackamore, but 
don't tell anyone! :^)   Since I'm required to show in a double, I alternate 
bridles frequently to ensure there is familiar feel to the double, as well
as lightness in the double.  My FEI horse goes best in a double the day 
after he'd been ridden in a snaffle.  But, after a few consecutive days in a 
double, I'm relieved to go back to a snaffle.  This phenomenon is not unique 
to my horse, so I've been told.  So to answer your concern, I'd say, its
likely you'll have no problem switching back to a snaffle for ring work.

Melinda

    
    
    As with all horses, each one is different...you have to try what
    is best for you.  My horse was fine in a snaffle everywhere but
    the trails or beach...so I used a straight pelham.  Worked like
    a charm, she didn't get too heavy, and a light tug on the curb
    rein would usually check any heavyness.
    
    BUT, do what is best for you and your horse.  Experiment a bit (no 
    pun intended!)
    
    Good luck.
    Deb

    Hi Janet,
    
    Melinda's comments reminded me of one of my own horses. Charity gets
    heavy in the hands working with just the double bridle so I do work her
    in the arena with just a snaffle as frequently as possible. 
    
    She's very good in the arena on a snaffle. However, she's is a POWERHOUSE 
    and her favorite gait on the trail is hand gallop! So, when we hit the 
    trails for conditioning and a change of scenery, a full bridle is 
    definitely called for! On the trial, she will run right through my hands 
    in a snaffle! With the full bridle, she never even considers it. But, she 
    does let me know in NO UNCERTAIN terms that she'd really rather gallop... 
    Since we do trail work for mental health as much as conditioning, I go
    along with her when we're both fit enough!
    
    Yes, I had read Dr Deb's article in EQUUS on bits. I think her
    statement was aimed at the strong one-handed kind of rein action that one
    sees so often in the showjumping classes. 
    
    If you are concerned about the jointed Pelham, I'd use a good dressage
    type full bridle. I'm sure that you know what I mean but perhaps others 
    don't. A dressage curb bit has much shorter shanks than the typical 
    showhorse curb. The curb usually also has a hollow mouth which makes it
    lightweight. The bradoon is usually smooth and somewhat thicker then is 
    common on a show horse bridle.
    
    Good luck
    John

    I have a horse who's similar to Joe's Charity.  Mine is  Welch Cob, who
    is fine with a snaffle until we get out on the trails.  Then, hang on
    to your hat!  I tried a Kimberwicke, but he got so overbent that this
    was a worse problem than his pulling.  The Kimberwicke seems to always
    have some curb action, at least the one I have works this way -- a
    pull makes the rein slide down to the "bottom" end of the D, and this 
    position activates the curb chain.  But I've had good results with
    either a pelham or a full bridle.  In either of these you can activate
    just the snaffle snaffle, and use the curb only when it's really
    needed.
    
    -ellie

    I have a young Saddlebred with an eye for dressage but a favorite
    resistance of bolting if he doesn't feel like work. I am using a double
    bridle with a fat bradoon. I knot the curb reins and just hang them
    on his neck, riding only with the snaffle rein. I rarely have to pick
    up the curb, but now he can be ridden safely. I took a real bad dump
    off of him last June, but now he is trying and I have my nerves back!
    He is the first horse I have ever ridden that would not stop with his
    nose touching my knee. Flexion is not a problem with him, only
    over-flexion.
    Sandy
    

    My stallion is a gentleman when doing dressage or stadium jumping. 
    I work him in a heavy full cheek snaffle bit with a flash noseband.
    
    But trail riding with that bit was an adventure in itself! After 
    too many rides of hanging on for dear life while his head is tucked
    between his legs at a dead gallop, I decided he needed another bit
    for the trail.
    
    I invested in an Uxeter (sp?) bit which looks like a Kimberwicke,
    but it has 2 slots in the dee ring for the reins.
    
    It is a heavy straight bar bit with a small port and a curb chain.
    You can put the reins through the top slot in the dee for action
    on the bars and tongue, or you can put the reins through the bottom
    slot which brings the port forward into the roof of the mouth. 
    The latter of the two is more severe and I chose the first option.
    
    Since he has had this bit, I have much much more control. He still
    wants to take off with me but a few half halts and he comes back
    onto the bit. And I can ride on a long rein now! What a difference!!
    
    Now of course this bit can be severe if used by a novice, and you
    don't want to ruin a horse's mouth. So you really need to proceed
    with caution.
    
    My 2 cents,               
    T

    	I have recently discovered that part of Dex's problem may in fact
    be his wolf teeth.  I didn't see cause for any concern when fitting him
    for the eggbutt snaffle - and he never tossed his head to any great
    degree as to indicate a tooth problem.  Well, I fitted him for the 
    Weymouth and the bit barely clears his wolf teeth by 1/8".  They appear
    to have turned inward - possible impacted?  I have scheduled the horse 
    dentist for a visit next month.  I'm not expecting a miracle cure but 
    I wonder how much better he will be after they are extracted...
    
    	I still plan to keep the Weymouth for trailriding.  Now my question
    is this - how do I determine the proper thickness for his mouth?  I 
    ordered a hollow-mouth dressage curb - it's 21mm.  Dexter has a fairly
    small head and although he takes a 5" bit - his lips are thin and his
    tongue is very thick, the bars are flat but narrow and the arch of his
    roof appears to be low (I determined this after messing with his mouth 
    for an hour - I had saliva running down my sleeves).  The curb alone
    seems to be seated fine but it really looks cramped with the bradoon.
    Millers carries 5 different dressage curb thicknesses - 14mm, 16mm,
    19mm, 21mm and 23mm.  The bit has a very low port and 5" shanks - the
    bradoon is very narrow (approx. 9mm).  I can return the bit and am
    opting for the 16mm - your advice and opinions gratefully accepted...
    
    	Janice, (who is starting the largest bit collection on the east
    coast).

I do a fair amount of trail riding on two quarter horses, a thoroughbred 
and a Rhinelander, well actually quite a bit of trail riding.  I usually 
show all the horses with an eggbut snaffle or, in the case of the 
Rhinelander, a Dr. Bristol in jumping classes.  

But when it comes to trail riding and fox hunting, my best success has been
with a rubber pelham.  You can get various length shanks and thickness for
varying levels of control. You can also set it up for one or two sets of 
reins.  For hunting, I usually just use the curb reins.  I also use a
standing martingale on one quarterhorse because he likes to avoid the bit
and move along (read gallop off) by putting his head up. 

The thoroughbread liked to toss his head because he had sensitive skin and
the curb chain irritated him.  A rubber curb chain cover seemed to give me
just the right amount of stop without overly annoying him. 

As stated in other notes, bitting is mostly experimentation.  Also a number 
of other factors will affect a horse during a trail ride, such as 
temperature, feed, the number of other horse in the group and the speed of 
the ride.  My quarter horse is a handful in cool weather when he is getting 
hot feed for the hunter trials season and is very mellow on grass hay in
the hot days we get out here.

Finding just the right amount of stopping power that is effective for the
level of riding ability is one of the fun challenges in equine recreation. 
There is a level of satisifaction in finally getting it right. 

Chip
who-has-the-largest-bit-collection-on-the-West-Coast