Conference noted::equitation

    
    Sounds to me like you need a confidence builder and not a bronc
    for a lesson horse.
    

    I would say to just keep at it and you will probably slowly build
    you confidence again.  You should probably stick to pretty steady
    horses for a while.
    
    When I was 29 years old (15 years ago - not to reveal my age), my
    horse flipped over backwards with me and we went down between two
    parked cars in back of us.  Hitting one car with my thigh as we
    went down turned me sideways so she landed on my right leg and not
    my back.  It was only a stroke of luck that I was not killed or
    crippled from a broken back.  I ended up with a lot of bad bruises
    on both legs, but no broken bones.  Had I been a teenager, I probably
    would not have thought twice about it.  At 29, it really set my
    confidence back.
    
    I continued to ride concentrating on always feeling in control.
    I have broken 3 young horses since then and usually feel relatively
    confident.
    
    So keep on riding and your confidence will slowly come back.
    
    Diana
    

    The problem with the horse I'm riding is that if you slip around
    at all in the saddle at the canter, she starts to buck.  This is sort
    of a catch-22, because I'm trying to rebuild all my skills, and hardly
    anyone has a perfectly smooth seat all the time.  If I don't slip, she
    doesn't buck and if I slip at all she bucks.  The teacher has other
    horses, and while I've liked riding this one before, I may ask her for
    another one next week, because I don't want to shake my confidence too
    much.  I was telling my husband after the ride, that I wish I had the
    confidence I had when I was a teenager.  Even after the original
    accident, I continued right on with horses for a few more years.  It
    was only after I hit my late twenties and early thirties that I started
    to develop this fear of getting hurt again.  Sigh... well I'm going to
    keep at it, because I love riding too much.
    
    Tina

    I have also had experiences that cause my knees to shake and I have
    to remind myself to breath. I also started back into lessons after
    many years and found myself overmounted. The instructor assumed
    that because I have 3 horses of my own I could ride most anything.
    The difference was my horses are free to come and go all the time
    so when I ride they are never "FRESH" wereas the school horses got
    no turnout whatsoever. If the horse I used was ridden earlier in
    the day he was fine, if not he scared me so bad I could hardly stay
    on thru his antics. My solution was to bring my own horse. You could
    possibly try a different horse, a different school, or get permission
    to lunge the horse for a while before you ride. Working with the
    horse on the ground could help build a relationship where both you
    and the horse could feel more at ease with each other.
    
    Sandy
    

    This is very interesting....
    
    I have just started riding seriously again - and I find
    myself experiencing alot of the lack of confidence everyone
    is talking about.
    
    I was NEVER afraid of being hurt by my horses until one
    day my horse tripped and fell on me.  I have never felt
    "safe" riding this horse again - especially since he
    has had so many near falls in the past few years.
    
    I was thinking about when I was young and all the CRAZY things
    we used to do on horseback - as 10 yr olds we used to love
    to try all kinds of dangerous stunts and we were NEVER afraid.
    
    Now I am afraid to even canter - not on all horses, just the
    one that fell on me.  It's a terrible feeling and I don't
    really know how to get over it - sometimes I am tempted to
    get rid of him and get a new horse just so I won't be
    afraid anymore...and I KNOW that's no solution.
    
    Rosanna
                                                    

    Ah, the shaking leg syndrome.  I know it well!  
    
    Mentally recovering from a bad accident takes time - and it's
    frustrating (hard on the ego, too).  You just can't seem to 
    do all things that came easily (or at least didn't bother you)
    before. I remember feeling like a complete beginner the first 
    time I rode after breaking my back in a fall - I had 2 people
    leading me and was shaking so bad I could hardly stand when I got
    off. And I was mad at myself for not being able to control the
    fear.
    
    I've got a piece of advice from the instrucor's side.  Tell your
    teacher about your experience.  Any reputable teacher will either
    have the horse worked or find you a different horse. Sometimes it's
    difficult to guage that a student is having problems because everything
    looks ok from the ground. Your teacher needs your feedback. It's a
    real confidence/ego destroyer to pull a rider offf a horse at every 
    little problem - as a teacher, you don't want to develop an "I can't" 
    attitude, so we try to work through the little problems.  But this
    doesn't sound like a little problem.
    
    Good luck - it does get easier.
    -maureen
    
    

    Remember that not every horse and rider combination will work out.
    Don't expect to be able to ride every horse well. Some horse are much
    more sensitive to their rider than others. If the rider is nervous the
    horse may sense it and also become nervous which makes the rider more
    nervous which makes ..... for a literally unstable situation. Know what
    your own characteristics are and therefore ride horses whose
    temperaments are compatible.
    
    No one is 100% safe on any horse. Even the most placid horse, when
    stung by a bee, can buck and bolt. Being able to handle such a
    situation should be part of everyone's riding education. As you get
    more experience you can ride more awkward horses, when you are ready.
    It takes a skilled instructor to assist you but not overmount you. 

    
    If the instructor is there and watching, he/she should be observant
    and smart enough to realize that there is something wrong with this
    picture and that both the horse and rider are at jeperdy if allowed
    to continue what was described. Isn't this what an instructor is
    for? Ground level observation and safety.
    The switch horses idea is the key, possibly switch instructors as
    well!

    As I was reading the original note I had to look twice and see if
    it had not been me writing it.  I also have had a bad accident
    experience, during cross country, almost 15 years ago.  Shortly
    after I got out of the horse business.  Only three years ago I started
    up again.  First with my own horses and eventually back into teaching
    and training.  Although I would not call it a fear it is more like
    a caution and anticipation that I never had before.  And yes, each
    time while riding I have had a close call, or bad exprience I have
    had the shakey legs.  
    
    I'm not sure if this is soley related to our bad experiences as
    much as a combination of older age, and with it comes wisdom and
    caution.  As a youngster I know I had NO fear, everything was a
    challenge and I was indestructable.  If it had four legs I would
    ride it.  Today my response to a new horse is "You ride it first".
    
    I also have wondered if this cautious anticipation and nervousness
    would go away with time.  If not I think perhaps it is for the better
    in the long run.  I'm not as young as I once was and should not be
    quite as carefree.
    
    My only advice is to not let this feeling overcome you.  Ride as
    often as you can and ride horses who are confidence builders.  Learn
    to live with these feelings and understand where they come from.
    
    Karen

    Thanks everyone.  It has been so comforting to me that I'm not alone
    with this fear.  I felt so weird!  I rode for years and years, stop
    riding a few years after the accident, then when I try to go back, I'm
    all shaky with the first buck.  I can remember riding all sorts of
    horses that weren't really fit for any riders and not being afraid at
    all, and now I look back wondering how could I have been so stupid.
    
    However, I do think it is for the best to be much more cautious, and I
    am going to ask for a different horse next week, or only do walk-trot
    on the same horse for a few more weeks.  If this is her trick (one
    trick but it's a good one) of bucking at the canter when I slip a
    little, she can keep her canter.  I fail to see how I'm going to learn
    to sit deeper, straighter, etc., when she's bucking or I'm so nervous
    that I anticipate bucking at every moment.  I think a good school horse
    should be able to tolerate people learning to have a deep seat at the
    canter, instead of trying to buck them off at the first sign of
    imbalance or whatever.
    
    Somebody referenced that the horse might be fresh because she wasn't
    turned out, but she was used for the riding day camp that day, so I'd
    hate to see her when she is fresh!
    
    Thanks everyone.  I feel so much better, and I will keep at it, only
    I'm going to be more firm about my needs and wants.
    
    Tina

    A few years ago (before I bought my own horse), I was riding a school
    horse during a lesson. We were doing in & outs and every time or so,
    the instructor would raise the verticals a few inches. Well, finally
    the horse (probably from something I did) refused the 2nd jump, I fell
    and all I remember is seeing a hoof land VERY close to my head.
    
    Well, for the longest time I have had the fear of jumping (even though
    I do it) solid jumps (like a coup) or high verticals because I was
    afraid my horse would refuse and I would fall off.
    
    I still have that fear but it is a lot less than 5 years ago. One
    thing that helps is time. Jasper and I have been through alot together 
    (he spooks at cows, chipmunks...) and each time he pulls one of his
    stunks and I stay on (haven't fallen off in a long time - thank
    heavens!), subconsciously I know I CAN stay on him.
    
    I still have problems jumping 3' or a tad higher, and put a 2'6" solid 
    fence and I shake, but I make myself do it and each time I do it I say
    to myself, if I can do it one time I can do it another time.
    
    Just take your time. It gets better. 
    
    		Cindy
    

Reading through this note, I can certainly relate.  I was away from horses 
for many years, I was surprised at how nervous I got and didn't have any 
of the confidence that I had as a kid.  Four years ago I can remember 
shaking badly while just trying to put a halter on a horse in his stall 
- now it's second nature.  It's tough to put the memories of bad accidents
out of my head (fell on by a rearing horse, bucked headfirst into a pile of
rocks got amnesia, wiped off on a mailbox, IsN't THis FUN? etc.)

	Some things that have helped me:

	. basic discipline: I got great instruction on handling my horse
	  from the ground/loading him on a trailer, and the basic lesson
	  was that your horse must respect you and your space.  It's alot
	  safer to work with a horse that is alert to what you are doing
	  and where you are at every moment vs. one that doesn't.  This 
	  session really had a positive effect when it was time to ride,
	  also.  My horse is smart and can often get the upperhand with
	  me - tipping control to my side of the scale made a big
	  difference.  When I first bought this horse, I also gained some
	  confidence by lunging him and reestablishing the basics (like 
	  whoa - with no arguing). I know there's contraversy around whether 
	  or not to lunge - I feel that when he is really fresh, 15 minutes
	  of lunging takes the "edge" off.  

	. learning to ride through bucks and spooks and etc etc etc.:
	  My horse bucks on occasion, and has dumped me.  I discussed this with
	  horsepeople and my instructor and found that it was my position
	  in the saddle that contributed to getting "launched".  I try to sit
	  deeply in the saddle, sit up straight, and when I feel him start his
	  lunge forward to buck, I hold the reins to keep his head up, get my
	  shoulders back, and try not to let him pull me/throw me forward.
	  Knowing that I can sit to him and stay on him through his antics
	  helps alot.

	. learn more about your horses routine/feeding:  all day turnout, 
	  less concentrate and more hay improved my horses disposition alot -
	  and he's gained weight - which he needed.  

	. don't anticipate the worst: I'm a great one for self-fulfilling 
	  prophecies.

	. get out there and just do it:  (easier said than done :^}) I got to 
	  my first small show 2 weeks ago (I talked myself out of it but my 
	  husband wouldn't let me back out.)  Jazz was a gentlemen.  He was a 
	  little tense (I was alot tense) but if we keep going to shows, etc. 
	  we'll get used to it.  I hope.
	

    RE: .5 and the falling horse....
    
    I have no idea why he falls - my instructor always said
    it was just "laziness" and him not paying attention.  She
    reccomended that we have his "toes rolled" when shoeing
    him to reduce the problem - I don't think it ever helped
    very much.
    
    I have also had him vetted out regarding this problem, and
    he has always come up %100 sound and healthy...I really
    don't know what it is, but it is very scary.
    
    I am convinced that there must be something "wrong", but
    in 10 years I have never figured out.
    
    But - I keep at it, and the more I ride him and don't experience
    falls the better my confidence is....
    
    RF

    I had a horse that stumbled a lot. She had nothing wrong with
    her, it was just her conformation. She was long in the back which
    made it harder for her to collect and get off her forehand. When
    I didn't keep her up enough she would trip all over the place. Dressage
    training helped her tremendously but she always needed help from
    her riders hands to keep her from tripping over her own feet. Beleive
    it or not it helped her go better balanced turned out too.
    
    Sandy
    

    
    
    I think this loss of confidence with the increase of age has a lot
    to do with the fact that when we are older we have more, and are
    more aware of, responsibilties.... children, husbands etc. And a
    nasty experience does not help.  A friend of mine has just got married 
    and since she met her husband she has found that her confidence has 
    disappeared, and not just when riding, even when driving her car.
    
    I may be enjoying a fast gallop when suddenly I think '...what if
    she trips now, what if I fall of' and slow her down.  My horse is
    both spooky and a butter-hooves, and I think my fear helps me stay
    in the saddle no matter what!  By the way, I find the reason she
    trips is because she is not paying attention to the job, she's always
    looking around at things and enjoying the view. She's 100% and her
    conformation is fine.
    
    However, a fall over a fence put me off jumping, and it's taking
    time to get over that (2 years so far). But I suppose the advice
    you've already seen here is the best, give it time. i don't know
    if I will ever be 100% confident again, but the shaky legs syndrome
    does happen less often now.
    

    
    Hi!
    
    I agree with everyone else, GIVE yourself time to get over
    your accident.  I had something similar to what happened to 
    you but my accident was not with a horse but getting hit
    by a car while I was walking across the street.  I was in the
    hospital for four months and I asked my doctor about my riding
    agian and all he said (Bad bed side manner) was if you fall off
    don't expect to ever get on agian...  Well that did it, I was
    scared to death after that.  It took a few years to get my
    confidence back and then after I did get it back I had to sell
    my horse due to moving and all and now six years later I have a 
    three year old Arabian that I'm training and this frightened feeling 
    of getting hurt came back.  Well, things are much better know but 
    I still take my time with cantering on him but when it came time for 
    his very first ride I was a Bit shaky and when we started lunging 
    with me on he turned real fast when I asked him to whoa and lunge
    line touched his side and up he was...  And down I went...
    
    He and I are doing great now and I feel much better with him.
    we are learnig alot as a team.  Hopefully next month I will
    enter him into his first show.  Just remember to take your time 
    and Don't get disappointed in yourself!  Riding is a wonderful 
    and rewarding hobby and every sport has its dangers so just give
    yourself time and try just trotting for awhile and wait on the
    canter until you feel relaxed with your horse.  Spend time with
    the horse grooming and just walking him/her around on a lead.  I
    did this for a good two months before I decided to break him.  We
    really got used to each other and he started to really put his
    trust in me also.
    
    Well I hope this helps!
    
    Zina
    

    Thanks everyone.  It felt so good that I'm not alone with this feeling. 
    I have a lesson coming up on Monday night, and I'm going to discuss
    this with the instructor.  If I can't ride another horse (she has some
    brand new riders and they use the 2 quietest horses), because someone
    else has it, I'm going to ask her to just work me at the trot for a few
    weeks on the horse I was originally riding.  I know she will be
    considerate of my wishes, so I don't anticipate any problems there.  I
    really need to work on a deeper seat anyhow and the sitting trot is the
    gait to do it at.
    
    Thank you all,
    
    Tina

    I'm pretty frustrated with myself at this point.
    
    I've found a nifty barn and even niftier instructor that I've been
    riding with for about 9 months.  Jennifer has taken me all the way back
    to the very very basics - I've spent more time on the lunge line, and
    bareback in the past 4 months than in all the time I've been around
    horses.  And, it has *really* worked wonders on my confidence level. 
    She knew I had been in a wreck before I told her.  We've been working
    hard on my seat and balance, and the "clutch" reflex (climbing up the
    horses neck when I feel out of control).
    
    This week I had a really good lesson on a new horse, an Appy named Amy. 
    Unfortunately she's in love with a chestnut quarter horse and whenever
    he's out of her sight, she carries on.  Well, yesterday I went to do a
    practice ride (by myself, nobody else in the ring and no instructor
    around) and of course her buddy is back in the barn.  She was all fast,
    screaming, not listening, spooky and just plain obnoxious.  I was proud
    of myself that I sat several unplanned canter transitions (I have
    *just* now started to canter), a minor buck, sudden stops, head
    throwing, jigging sideways, backwards, and in circles.  
    
    After about 20
    minutes though I was to the point of "I'm either going to give this
    horse a thrashing or I'm going to get off".  I wasn't practicing
    anything except staying on board, and I was losing the precious bits of
    confidence I had been building up.  And, I was afraid to start
    something I wasn't sure I could finish, especially without help
    immediately at hand.  So, I got off and made her walk patterns on the
    ground for 15 minutes.  It was the least I could do to not reward her
    for acting the maggot.  (But, I know she won).
    
    Sorry for rambling, but I'm frustrated with what happened and I'd
    really like some input both on what to do next time (Saturday) and what
    you would have done in the same situation.
    
    Thanks,
    Dana

    You should be proud of yourself for handling the horse as well as you
    did, and knowing when it was time to get off (you don't want to get
    over tired, and it doesn't sound like she was going to make any
    progress this day anyway).  The ground work was a great idea. 
    
    Don't let this undermine your confidence, she may just be in season.
    They'll be other days and other rides, sounds like your doing well.
    
    Sharon S.

    Does she do this all the time, or was this an isolated incident? The
    previous note could be right - she could just be in season.  I also
    agree with the previous note that you did the right thing getting off -
    this is always what you should do whenever you start feeling unsafe.
    Your personal safety is the most important thing of all. It sounds like
    you've come a long way in your riding and are doing great!  I admire
    folks who can bring themselves back after a bad wreck, I'm not sure if I
    could do so (never had a serious wreck). 
    
    Now, if this happens continually, and this is just me, but what I would 
    have done is this: herdbound horses act that way out of fear.  They are
    afraid and insecure without the companionship of their buddies. 
    If you give them a thrashing (punishment), it only adds to their fear. 
    The horses mind says "Hey, I'm scared here by myself, and now this
    rider is hitting me, too! This is awful!  Being ridden without my
    friend means I'm going to get hit!".  What the horse needs is
    confidence.  I would have found a spot, any spot, even it was right
    outside the buddies stall, where the mare felt secure and would stand
    quietly relaxed.  Let her stand there and unwind.  Praise her. Then ask
    her to move away.  Continue moving her away until she gets upset.  When
    she gets upset, return her to the spot where she was relaxed, returning
    to the 'safe spot' via exact same route you went away on.  Even if you
    only get 5 feet away from the buddy horse.  Eventually the mare will
    relax at points further away from the buddy.  Given time, praise, and
    patience, she'll eventually realize that "Hey, it's not so bad being
    away from my pal.  I get to go back to him pretty soon and this human
    tells me that everything is fine".  Kind of a weaning process, and it
    establishs the horse's confidence in you rather than reinforcing her
    fear.
    
    Yes, this is a theory I came across via studying John Lyon's training
    methods.  Now, I'm about to try this on my own herdbound mare, as soon as 
    the footing is safe and I've taken her through the round pen work
    first. (To be honest, I have no idea how badly herdbound she is, she
    may go out on her own just fine and surprise me). Now, I'll probably get 
    back to you in a month or so and tell you dont' bother, it doesn't work, 
    I've returned the mare and gotten a lazy old plug. :-)

    I have a Mare that acts simular sometimes. re.21 . 
    I can not disagree with at all , but the times I have to ride
    are so few even with horses in the back yard.
    	
    With my mare when she is acting too barn sour or too "i can not leave
    sight of my gelding" I ride her. Not the kind of relaxed ride I wanted
    to go on but a straight back, got the spurs on, you even look the wrong
    way I am going to correct you, never harshly but consist and firm.
    NEVER mean. After about 15 minutes she usually settles down.
    	Only once did she not. I was going to take her to a friends arena
    for a little work and she decide not to load. She had never balked at
    loading before. It took 2 hours before she decide to listen. I lunged
    her in circles. She would not listen, we lunged some more. I had to
    work her to a lather before she would listen, but she did and never
    balked at loading again. 
    	My wife wants me to sell her, because she is not a kids horse.
    she has more spirt and speed then any horse I have been on. I 
    have hunted, team penned, barrel raced and trail rode. And she 
    has done well with it all. At the club were I ride they have an event 
    called the 75. 75 yards up and back. She has never lost. 
    
    	Good luck,
    		Carl

My horse Mimsi is in love with the recently-added Paint gelding where she's 
boarded and talks to him often.  When I'm with her (riding, walking,
whatever) I make sure I keep up a steady "conversation" so she's always
focused on me.  That conversation can be in the form of neck rubbing, or
squeezing gently on the reins to keep the bit communication going (that's
with a snaffle, of course), just plain talking, very frequent gait and
direction changes, and so on.  Anything to keep her mind on *me* rather
than her surroundings, to let her know that "I'm the boss and this is
work." 

I've also found that if I feel my horse is going to take 10 minutes to lose 
her concentration during a workout, I'll quit at eight.  That way the horse 
remembers an unblemished workout and also has no memory of having won any 
"discussions."  As the days go by, I can get that time up significantly.  
If that also sound like Lyons, well, it is!

It helps also to work in a designated work area, an area not used for
turnout, so when the horse enters the area s/he thinks, "Work time.  Listen
to rider.  No BS."  But I realize that's not always possible. 

Sounds like you're doing ok -- hang in there!

    Hi Everyone,
    
    Well I rode on Saturday with the same mare as planned.  This time my
    instructor was teaching a lesson on the lunge line at one end of the
    ring, and of course Amy was just fine.  I'm not sure if it was the fact
    of having another horse in the ring (or even in sight) or whether it
    was the intimidation factor of having Jen in the ring, or even whether
    *I* felt more comfortable and transmitted this to Amy.  She was mildly
    fractious but nothing I couldn't handle.  The major issue was that she
    kept tripping (just had her feet done), which helped me practice
    eliminating my clutch reflex!
    
    I appreciate all the responses, esp about my decision to get off and 
    about how to condition her out of
    her herdboundness.  Knowing that more advanced riders would have done
    something similar makes me feel better!
    
    Thanks!
    Dana