Conference noted::equitation

    Is it the sight of the vet and needle, or the stab in the neck that
    shakes her up? 
    
    My horse allows me to place fingers up the side of his teeth with
    no problem, that is, untill he sees a wormer in the other hand.
    Then brake out the step latter.
    
    If it is the stab she hates, try numbing the area first by pinching
    the spot for a period of time, then clean quick and stab. Our vet
    repeatedly slaps (more like a hard pat) the side of his neck about
    ten times or so, than on the tenth, without skipping a beat, jabs
    him. He doesn't even know anything even happened and if he did,
    it would be over by then. It deserves a reward for sure though!
    
    Good luck...

    It seems to be the Jab.  We do squeeze the spot, then tap a few
    times, then stick in the needle.  Everything is O.K. until this
    point.  But then she goes crazy backing and rearing.  And once she
    knows what you are attempting to do Look Out. you only get one try
    and if you blow it tough luck.  She is the same about her teeth.
    
    Do you think there is an oral drug which both gives yearly vaccines
    and tranqualizes so we can then do her teeth.  Or is this too much
    to ask for.
    
    Karen "Frustrated and Confused" 

    There are  couple of oral tranquilizers. Promazine is the most
    common and if I remember correctly, is available without a
    prescription. This might calm her down enough to give her a shot.
    
    As far as I know, there aren't any oral equine vaccines.
    
    -maureen
    

If she's afraid of the needle in her neck, do you think she'd
be just as bad if the shot were given in her rump instead?   I have
my horses shot in the rump when they get their spring shots, so they
don't get stiff necks (and go off their feed -- since I feed hay on the
ground).

The oral tranq sounds like the best idea yet though.

Melinda

    If you could see her reaction to the vet the last place you'd want
    to be is near her hind legs with a needle.  Even though she has
    never kicked I would hate to start a bad habit this way.
    
    I think the oral sedative sounds the best.  I will try to locate
    it this weekend.
    
    Karen

    
    	I also have one horse that HATES shots.. and one that I could
    	stab all day without a move.
    
    	The only way to do Nashoba is to put him in either a vet stall
    	(like a standing stall with poles for sides) or in a trailer.
    	I must also give him his in the butt.  His reaction to a neck
    	shot is 2 weeks of not being able to move his neck.
    
    	At home, I use my trailer.  I put him in one side - put up the
    	butt bar and tailgate.  Then give them in his butt.  He is 
    	not a happy camper but I don't get killed either.  I do put
    	him in once in a while and do nothing with him.  I don't want
    	him to hate the trailer - but he is retired and I really don't
    	haul him anywhere much.
    
    	The standing vet stalls can be padded... and are safter.
    
    	Good luck - I know how it is...
    
    	Susan

    I have a mare that exactly the same. She was mistreated by a vet
    once also. She's as sweet as can be except for shots too. I found
    out that useing any kinds of restrants make her worst. The problem
    is they really think your trying to hurt them and feel they have
    to fight back. I dont even use a chain over her nose because she
    gets defensive before we even start. 
    
    When I changed vets, I got a woman vet and she was better with her.
    Shes more afraid of male vets because a male vet mistreated her.
    I have found that the more tense the vet is the worst she is. The
    vet I use now has had the best luck with her than anybody else,
    but this vet is very relaxed and dosn't act like a vet, she acts
    like just another person in the barn. She trust her, and dosn't
    feel like shes here to kill her. Shes still tense, but her feet
    stay on the ground. Even though you like your vet you may want
    to try a woman vet. It sounds like your vet may not mind. ;')
    
    Also as far as the sedative goes. Remember you may have to give
    her shots some time when you cant use a sedative. Like if she
    colics. Its best that you try to work it out. Also I found out
    that my horse dosn't mind me giving her shots, she just hates
    vets.
    
    Good luck, It did take a long time, but it was worth it. Life
    too short! ;')
    
    Gina
    
    P.S. How was she before she was mistreated?
    
    
     

    I don't know how this will work with shots, but my daughter
    uses Anbesol or Numzit on her show horse's neck when she 
    needs to do some heavy mane pulling.  Maybe some sort of
    local anesthetic that the vet has would do the job of 
    deadening the surface before the shot.
    

Karen,

   I don't know if this will help or not, but we have a mare that doesn't
like shots, but she didn't react as violently as yours.  We tried tapping the
spot first or squeezing the skin before putting the needle in, but she
figured out that it meant the shot was coming and would start to dance sideways
at the first tap or when you squeezed.  So the next time the vet came, he tried
something different.  Without any warning to her (didn't even let her see that
he had a needle and syringe), he just stuck the needle right in with the
syringe attached and gave her the shot.  She acted like nothing happened.
We now give her all her shots like this and she'll even stand for more than one
at a time.  Sure beats me why this works for her, but it does.  Hope you find
something that works for your horse.

						Jan

    I also have a horse, which is terrified of needles AND vets....
    She suffered a bad accident last year, and from that day
    on, because she needed so much treatment (including needles)
    she's been frightened.
    My vet's method was to put the needles between his fingers
    and pat her on the neck.. this is when she throws tantrums, and
    becomes very uncontrolable, the only way i can control her now
    is to dope her, and shes not too bad.
    
    Good luck anyway   Jayne.
    

    	I'm with Jan (.9) - having had a filly who became totally paranoid
    with injections (regardless if was me OR the vet).  The less they
    suspect the better - in fact I'm convinced that in this fillys case
    that thumping her on the neck just reminded her of what was about
    to happen, and she'd get all her muscles flexed and make it twice
    as difficult to place the needle!  Find a new injection site (some
    vets will use the muscles between the front legs if there is enough)
    and discourage the use of the rump muscles because if you do get
    any infection or reaction it is a very difficult area for drainage...
    
    
    

    Well it's spring shot time again and I thought I'd give you an idea
    that has just worked great for me with a problem horse.  If your vet
    is willing this might solve your problem with horses that are afraid
    of needles.  I have a horse that is terrified of them and three weeks
    ago I had the vet come out to try and forget it.  She was so scared
    that we were unable to give her what was needed for shots so the vet
    said that maybe if I could get a trailer to put her in that it might
    work then.  Well yesterday my neighbor called and asked it I needed
    the vet for my horse cause the vet was at her barn, I said yes but
    I didn't know if he would be able to and told her what happened a few
    weeks ago.  Well I talked to the vet and he said he would try and if
    he couldn't give her the shots he wouldn't charge me.  (cost me $35.00
    three weeks ago for nothing)  When he showed up later I told him how
    nervous I was because I didn't think it would work and asked him if he
    would make friends with her first.  I gave him a couple of apples and
    carrots because the best way to her heart is through her stomach.  Then
    he thought of an idea.  The vet had me tack her up and he rode her to 
    give her the shots and it work.  I was thrilled.  She saw nothing
    comming but you could tell she felt them but it didn't seem to scare
    her at all.  I just had to share this with you all as a possible
    solution to problem horses.  So for next year he said just tack her
    up and have her ready.  This vet graduated recently from tuffs and is
    starting his own practice, loves horses and is very patient with them.
    
    Now the only problem is going to be her teeth.  To bad you couldn't
    do that from her back.
    
    Cindy

    Had a new vet out yesterday to give my mare her spring shots.  Can't
    believe it finally worked with out a struggle.  Three weeks ago I had
    another vet out and it was impossible to get near her without her
    wanting to kill us so the vet went away.  Anyway my neighbor called
    yesterday wondering if I wanted the vet that she had out to her place
    come over when he was done.  I said yes and talked to him to let him
    know how difficult she is about needles and he said he'd give it a try.
    So when he came later on I was positive my mare would not put up with
    it and she'd be out shots that year.  Well after I told him to make
    friends with her first (gave him apples and carrots to give her) he
    decided to have me tack her up, then he mounted her to give the shots
    and it worked she was as good as gold.  You could tell she felt them
    but she couldn't see anything and I'm sure that was her problem.
    Now if your vet is willing this could be a solution for other horses
    who are afraid of needles.  Buy the way this is the same horse that
    Karen Porter wrote about a while ago (The fear of needles).  Now when
    I call the vet out next year he said to have her tacked up.  Nice guy
    too.
    
    Cindy