Conference noted::equitation

    WHAT CONDITION ARE HER FEET IN (TO DRY, CRACKING, CHIPPING, ETC.)
    WHY ARE YOU USING BORIUM?  DO YOU HAVE PADS WITH THE SHOES?
    
    
    

I noticed that my six week old foal has "growth rings" on all
four hooves.   Is this normal?   I know adult horses who have had
accelerated hoof growth will often have an indentation circling
the outer wall of the hoof.   Since this is my first time raising a
foal, I'd feel a lot better if one of you foal raising experts told
me this was normal... 

Thanks!

Melinda

    RE:  .2
    Are you sure they are growth rings and not stress?
    

    Rick,
    
    Hooflex has got pine tar in it, and that can be very drying.  You
    shouldn't have to put on so much hoof dressing.  Really, once a
    week should be enough.  You can defete the purpose of hoof dressing
    by over applying.  As for biotin feed supplements, those are a good
    idea, but before you start paying outrageous amounts of money, know
    that you can feed a supplement call Zincpro that is for feet that
    has the biotin in it.  You will find that this will do a good job
    and will you will be paying far less than you would be for any of
    the Gene a Hoof type products.  
    
    For hoof dressings I would suggest making your own by using mineral
    oil and lanolin.  This animal fat based dressing is inexpensive
    and does a first rate job with no drying.  The pine tars in other
    hoof dressings are too drying!  There is a file in this notes about
    hoof bonding information that has an article typed in it regarding
    this problem of hoof dressing.
    
    Also, why are you shoeing with borium?  That is used in the winter
    for traction.  It grabs the ice, or if you ride on the pavement
    alot.  It can do a number on tendons because it does not allow the
    foot to slide forward much.  You don't need it if you ride on trails
    or a ring.  Good luck with Cody.
    
    regards,
    

    RE:  .1
    My questions is also why are you using borium?  Did she have shoes
    on before?  What type of ground is she out on?  What type of bedding
    do you have her on in the barn?
    
    A couple of things that we have used in the passed is Hoofmaker
    with the vitamin supplement of Source.  Has worked very well for
    horses with dry, brittle feet.
    
    Was she on a vitamin supplement before?  Did they do anything with
    her feet before to keep them in condition?
    

    I have experienced a similar problem with one of our horses.  His
    feet are in good condition except for the fact that he has excessive
    chipping and cracking.  Since I tried a couple of things at one
    time I cannot be sure which did the trick or if it was a combination
    of all three.
    
    1. We now feed a suppliment (Source) which was highly recommended
       for horses with similar problems.
    
    2. We apply Hooflex once, sometimes twice a week (no more than twice)
    
    3. There was a large area in our pasture which was always wet and
       muddy, which was fenced off.  We removed the fence and now let
       the horses stand in the mud to graze.  The way it was explained
       to me was we try so hard to keep our horses high and dry but
       in fact what we are doing is keeping the normal absorbation of
       necessary water to the hoof from occurring.  Granted this is
       not the best thing you can do for shoes, but it's working so
       I am going to leave well enough alone.
    
    As I mentioned We tried all three things at once, and have continued
    them for the past year.  The chipping and cracking problem has
    disappeared.  And since my other horses have also benefited from
    these practices it has become a routine.
    
    Good Luck
    Karen 
         

    re:  .4
    
    Please remember that all areas of the country are not equal for
    need of hoof dressing.  Those of us in climates where the humidity
    is consistently below 40% need to do something to keep moisture
    IN the hoof.  And using hoof dressing several times a week is not
    unusual or dangerous.
    

    O.K. Here goes my attempts to answer the additional questions you
    have all been good enough to ask.
    
    RE: .1, .4, .5
    
    The current condition of her hooves is as follows; too dry, minor
    chips and cracks, no pads with her shoes. (also she exhibits no
    soreness at this time and does hot favor any foot)
    
    I have borium on her shoes to give her traction when crossing pavement
    and riding on pavement for the short distances she has to travel
    on it to get to and from the area trails.  50% of the riding we
    do is in a riding ring and 40% is on trails.  A very small amount
    of time is spent on pavement.
    
    I don't know if anything was used on her hooves before I got her
    with the exception of 3 dressings of hooflex per week.  I doubt
    if any supplements were given to her considering she was poorly
    treated w/r/t feed.  She has gained about 80 lbs and is filling
    out nicely in her new home.
    

    Rick

    Rick...
    As far as the borium goes, I would take it off in the summer.  We
    found on one of our horses who was worked with borium on in the
    summer that it gave him too much grip in the softer ground and he
    ended up with tendon problems.  You really won't slip that much
    if any on pavement with flat shoes.
    
    Good luck
    

    I would suggest reading note 514.5 for an article that was reprinted
    there.  It is very enlightening.
    
    regards,
    

    
    
     I agree with not using boriums in the summer...I ride approx. 3
    miles road travle a day, just to get to any trails and yes, standard
    steel shoes are slippery only when the nail heads are worn down.
    Do to 3 miles pavement and 10 miles or so a day of trail work, I
    wear the shoes down to tin foil in 7 weeks.
    
    Slow she goes, step by step, inch by inch...and then!
        
    
    As far as maintaining correct hoof moisture balance, there was an
    excellent article in the March/88  issue of Horseman, (The Dynamic
    Balance of Hoof Moisture by Cherry Hill).
    
    As a quote "A hoof that is kept to soft, as in the case of the horse
    continually standing in water or the horse repeatedly daubed with
    too much hoof dressing, contains too much moisture in the outer layer.
    The soft outer layer doesn't stand a chance of opposing the pressure
    from the inner layer and the hoof spreads like a pancake. Excess
    moisture weakens the integrity of the layers of hoof horn resulting
    in soft, punky hoof walls that peel, seperate into layers, split
    and crack"
    
    Another good point from this article that I can directly relate
    to is for instants, a horse that's forced to stand in mud and water.
    This was a situation my horse was in and as a result, softened the
    soles of his hoof and he received a good stone bruise. He has been
    off for 2 weeks now and is still sensitive. Needless to say, he
    is now moved to a dryer area, is soaked once a day with epsom salt
    and the sole is painted with Kopertox in an attempt to mildly dry
    and toughen them.
    
    All because of excess moisture, I feal I won't be in the saddle
    for at least a few more weeks.
        

    That article is partially reprinted in note 514.5
    

    I think my course of action for the next month will be as follows:
    
    Dressing her hooves only twice a week.
    I'm going to give her the smallest recommended dosage of biotin
    recommended.
    The next shoeing I'll have the borium removed.
    
    Thanks for all the help.
    Rick

    I am no where near to being a foot/hoof expert.  I never use any
    kind of hoof dressing.  The only thing I ever do is to remove any
    hoof black after a horse show.  *BUT* I do feed Clovite.  It's the
    only supplement I've ever used, the only one my vet recommends.
    My blacksmith has been complaining all summer that all the horses
    he's seeing are suffering from terrible dry feet except mine.  He
    says all my horses (5) are just right.  It has to be the Clovite.
     My pasture is just as dry (or wet in the rain) as everyone else's
    and all my horses, including the stallion, are out 12 hours out
    of every 24.  So, give Clovite a try.  It works for us, it's
    not as expensive as some other supplements, and my horses have
    beautiful coats.  Even my very white mare has a visible shine.
    
    Gwen
    

    A nice alternative to borium is ice (or frost) nails.  You can remove 
    a couple of regular nails and replace them with ice nails for extra grip
    on those special occasions. They can be removed or allowed to wear
    down.
    

One of the bad traits that Appaloosas are generally known for 
is bad feet. We have two of them. We had more problems with
their feet when they were shod all around then we do now that we only
put shoes on the front feet. The unshod hoofs get chipped up, but they 
do not split. My theory is that the shoes were causing the spliting
by protecting the hoof from chipping and thereby allowing a basically
unstable part of the hoof to grow out longer than it normally would. 
Any knowledgable horse people care to comment on that idea?

/ed

    RE .2
    
    Foals have baby feet that grow out.  You can see the growth in "rings"
    that seem to bulge a bit just below the new, regular hoof.
    
    It's nothing abnormal.  However, ask your farrier about trimming
    them, should your baby seem to turn his toes out/in, or show any
    other aptitude for having non-perfect legs.  Too many times farriers
    have told me they "never" trim foal feet -- not necessary until
    they're yearlings.  DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT!  You can help strengthen
    muscles, tendons, etc., by giving the leg a chance with corrective
    trimming.  If, on the other hand, you choose to wait for that first,
    and subsequent trim, you could contribute to crooked legs!
    
    Have fun.  Foals are great!!
    
    Merrie

Merrie,

Thanks for reassuring me that my foal's feet are okay.  I
suspected it was normal, since it only makes sense that their
hooves are changing (growing) at a fast clip.   

re .3 

Adult horses with severe navicular often have this dent (or ring), 
am I wrong?   Maybe this is where the stress comes in that you mentioned.  

I haven't yet talked to a vet about the foal's rings.  I wondered
if it was partly due to change in nutrition value of the mare's
milk.   My foal chose not to eat much hay or grain until he was about
3 weeks.  Since he looked very healthy, I didn't worry about it and 
figured the mare's milk must have been making up for it.   

Thanks for all your input.  Now I think I'll hound you foal raising
experts with question about foal training ... in another note.

Melinda

    re .16
    
    Not knowing much about Appaloosas, I could be wrong on this, but
    I wonder if Appy's poor hooves have anything to do with the 
    stripes... On other breeds white hooves often are more prone to 
    chipping or cracking than are dark hooves.  I believe that white
    hooves also grow a little faster, perhaps to make up for that that
    is chipped off.
    
    Since appaloosas have a combination of both colors on each hoof,
    if white grows faster, and is not being worn away by chipping when
    shod, it could lead to bands of white which are somewhat longer
    than dark after the shoes have been on for a while.  This might
    cause problems... loose shoes, perhaps splits... 
    
    Just a theory, does this make any sense?
                                                     
    Joan
    

re: 670.4 - Did I find Zincpro?

Blue Seal Feeds has a product called E-Z Pellets which contains Zincpro and 
Vitamin E.  Its a grain-based pellet; you feed .5 lb. per animal.  From what
I've read, it's was developed to improve cow's feet when they are kept in 
small, soggy cowpens.  A small farm in Rindge has been feeding it with much
success.  I have started my horse on it (his feet are very brittle).  He has
been on Source (for the past 9 months) with not much improvement.  His feet
grow very slowly so the improvements may not be noticable yet (ie: from the
Source).  

There is another product on the market that induces hoof growth manufactured
by Dr. Benson called Hoof Inducer.  This stuff has an oil base and the
active ingredient is derived from Pine trees.  Sounds like Hoof-flex to me.
Has anyone had success with it?  I've also heard that Reducine on the coronary
band will increase bloodflow and growth.  It also blisters and I am afraid to
use it.  Doe's anyone have experience with this.  I have resorted to daily
cold water soaking of his feet and Hoofmaker dressings for now.  This dry
weather is doing a job on his feet and there's not much left to nail a shoe
to.

Thanks

 
  Hi -

	I have a TB with thin wall, shelly hooves.  Source did not do anything
    for his feet, neighter did applying Reducine to his coronary band 3 times
    a week (just made the thin, shelly hooves grow faster).  

	Back in March, I have changed his suppliment to Dr. Benson's TNS (Total
    Nutrition Supplement) and though it hasn't been very long, I've noticed a
    difference in the quality of hoof wall - it is smoother.  By nature, his
    feet showed growth rings (and I was constantly checking for heat), so I'm
    really happy about this affect.  I occasionally use Hoofmaker (especially
    with it being so dry) and after a shoeing I apply Tough-N-Uff (sp?).  This
    combination seems to be working, but it's such a black-art! :-)

		Good luck!
					-Caroline

Thanks for the info, Caroline -

	I was impressed with the analysis sheet of TNS - which also
contains Biotin - and seems to be the answer to hoof problems.  There is
some question as to how much Biotin actually gets "used" in the horses 
system - I've heard theories around certain enzymes necessary to
enable it to be utilized and the possiblility that Biotin is only aborbed in
very small amounts - with the expensive Biotin supplement ending up in the
manure pile.  These questions have fogged my thinking as far as what to do.

	What is the Tufn'up??  Is it a sealer applied to the outside of the
hoof (similar to Bonding?).  What's in it?

You're welcome, Janice!  

	From what I've read and heard, it's not just Biotin that's important.
     There is an amino acid (???) called Methionine (sp?) which is very 
     important for the breaking down and usage of the Biotin.  Source has
     Biotin but not Methionine, TNS has both (greater percentage of Methionine).

	I read recently (last month or two) that corn was a good source of 
     Biotin, but I'm still not sure what is a good natural source of Methionine.

	Regarding Tuff n'uff - Yes, I believe it is a hoof bonder of sorts.
     I'll get the ingrediant list when I visit the critter tonight.  Our first
     farrier used it on the critter after every shoeing (14 months...), then
     I moved to a different barn and used a different farrier (mine wouldn't
     travel that far north) and didn't use it for about 4 months -- the effects
     were scary -- very chippy feet (in the spring??)!!  I got some on my own 
     and have been using it since.

					-Caroline

Janice --  Now that I have an empty bucket of TNS infront of me and the
	container of Tuff Stuff, I can give you better information!

	First, the amino acid I was trying to spell is Methionine.

	Now for Tuff Stuff -- the bottle has a phone number on it,
	(914) 735-9447 to call for information.  It by the New York
	Equine Research &  Technology.  From the label:

	Applications:
		For strengthing hooves of shod and unshod animals.
		Aid in moisture retention.  Strenghten soft or 'mushy'
		hooves / as a show cosmetic.  ...  For tightening and 
		preventing slightly loose shoes, apply as needed to
		fill wear space of nail track and old tracks after
		shoeing.  

	They have directions... hooves must be dry, do not use on
		coronary band or bulbs of heels...

	And a CAUTION :
		Contains actone: Poisonous and highly combustible.
		(wonderful... combustible feet...)


    Acetone is used in nail polish and nail polish remover!  There isn't 
    an ingrediants list, so this can't simply be nail polish remover...
    or clear nail polish.... RIGHT?

				-Caroline

    
    
    I have a friend that got a very well bred QH mare for the shipping
    costs because she had foal foundered.  This mare came off the
    shipping van on three legs.  One foot had lost most of the hoof
    wall and she couldn't walk very well on the other three.  She had
    the worst foot cut back with the dead hoof wall removed.  She put
    the mare on a double dose of straight Methionine in her feed and
    had her shod with pads all the way around.  That was a year ago.
    Today this mare has 4 almost sound feet and she is used for
    pleasure riding and as a brood mare.  My friend says that she is
    even planning on showing her in driving classes this fall. 
    
    She talked t the vet and he said that Methionine works on the liver
    and helps to clear out the poisons in the animals system from the
    founder and then helps the body make new foot tissue.  I have seen
    Methionine used at the track for race horses that have problem feet
    due to the fact that they get their shoes changed so frequently.
    
    
    Straight Methionine is available from Rockford Vet Wholesale in
    Rockford, Illinois without a prescription.  It come in ten pound
    packages and costs about $10.00. They have an 800 number for phone
    orders that is posted elsewhere in theis notes file.  Dosage is,
    I believe, one teaspoon in the feed once a day.  
    
    pat
    

      It's been a month of biotin and the results are almost scary.
    Cody threw another shoe 3 days ago and is doing so almost once a
    month.  When the blacksmith looked at her he told me her hooves
    grew about a full 1" this month.  He trimmed a full inch off and
    her hoof condition is getting better.  It looks like I,m going to
    be getting her re-shod$$$ every 4 weeks if we keep her on biotin$
    supplement.  The 'smith also thinks her aggressive pasture behavior
    could be the reason he can't keep shoes on her.  She loves to bolt
    and gallop around for no apparent reason.  She behaves extremely
    well with rider's and is never mean so I guess I can deal with her
    spirited actions.
    
    Rick