Conference noted::equitation

    As far as helmets go, the trend lately is to get an AHSA and USPC
    approved helmet.  If you are going to be doing any eventing, I would
    strongly suggest getting a caliente helmet (which are now REQUIRED
    by some events!)  These are ugly as sin (without the pretty covers)
    but they are the best for head protection that I now of!  They are
    also fairly expensive $50 - $60 or so, but are worth the price.
    
    Hope this helps as a start and good luck with your jumping lessons!
    
    Linda
    

    
    
    I speak from experience.  Don't waste your money on cheap head 
    protection.  I nearly received a broken nose from a fall because
    the hat I was wearing had an attached fiberglass visor.  I was
    also lucky that the cracked visor didn't go into my eye!  Don't
    interpret this as I would have been better without a helmet - NOT
    true.  The helmet cracked up the back where I hit!  
    
    I now ride in a Belmont helmet.  Its the Caliente look alike
    sold at State Line Tack Shop. It has a harness and the visor
    which is part of the cover is made of cardboard.
    
    They aren't as pretty as the cheaper less protective helmets, but
    accidents aren't planned and the money invested in your helmet is
    a true investment in your future!   
    
    Danielle
    

    Are any of these available in custom sizes?  I would like one
    of the more protective helmets but I need an especially large size
    and no one seems willing to offer this.
    
    					Monty
    

    Make sure whatever you get has a harness to hold it on your head
    in case of a fall. Do get a helmet though. Several years ago I let
    my husband talk me into jumping on behind him while he was riding
    bareback. I spent 3 days in the hosptial with a concussion. Every
    time you move you get sick. Not a pleasant experience! Liesl

    I, too, use a caliente.  They really are uglier than sin without
    the covers.  I feel like I should be in a roller derby.  I haven't
    seen them any larger that 7 3/4.
    
    An alternative might be with one of the pony club approved hunter
    type helmets.  Check the shell material for strentgh and look for
    suffiecient padding.  The padding should not be fluff, but be similar
    to that in motorcycle helmets or bicycling helmets (the good kind).
    Two other features to look for are a flexible bill (to save your
    nose) and a secure chin harness (the elastic straps are not
    acceptable).
    
    If all else fails and the only helmet you can find that fits does
    not have a harness, removeable harnesses are available.  These starp
    on over the outside of the helmet. They aren't great, but they're
    better than nothing.
    
    A last suggestion is to make sure that the helmet fit comfortably
    and you don't feel too silly wearing it. If you don't like it, you
    probably won't wear it as often as you should.  Nobody sees me wearing
    the caliente when I ride and the cover is in the wash. I wear it,
    but I go hide.

    Does anybody here know the current status of the new ASTM helmet
    requirements?  I'm so confused.... When does/did the req go into
    effect?
    
    
    I need to know for kids and adults  - hunter (ASHA) and USCTA
    rated events.
    
    -maureen
    
    

    
    I think I saw an article about it in this months equus.  I believe
    they've postponed requiring adults to wear a helmet.....
    
    jan
    

	USCTA has postponed the requirement until March 1991.  (Something
	about the way the current helmuts do not fit the most heads, 
	availability, and I believe appearance.)

					-Caroline

    Thanks so much!
    
    I've got a couple (poor) students who will be very happy.
    
    -maureen
    

    Re: Liability
    
    One has to only read the adds for these helmets to get the idea
    that lots of folks are concerned about liability - the manufacturers,
    the sellers, the organizations *requiring* their use.  I suspect
    that liability concerns are more of a reason for the AHSA posponing
    their req.  USPC may be making a big mistake, but if you
    host/participate in a pony club event, their insurance should cover
    any liability issues.
    
    Now what happens if a Pony Club hosts a USCTA horse show?
    
    

I just received the latest issue of the Chronicle and in it was an article about
the latest AHSA meeting... I'm wondering, did I misread it or have they really
decided to change the ASTM helmet ruling for juniors and combined training
competitors to be that AHSA shows and events *recommend* the use of ASTM
approved helmets but they are *not* required?

I haven't bought one of the new ones yet (regardless of the ruling I'm going to)
but I was wondering what the latest "ruling" is...

Linda

    There was so much to do about the helmets that, yes, you read it right. 
    Actually, after reading some of the articles about the new helmets, I'm
    not too sure how safe they are.  I personally don't hold in too high
    esteem any helmet that is recommended to be thrown away after the first
    fall or after dropping it on the floor.  I'd be replacing my helmet on
    a daily basis.  I'm sticking to the old-fashioned caliente (spelling?)
    if I can find one.  I've never had any problems with mine, although I
    do replace them quite frequently -- I set my own safety standards!
    
    However, I doubt the issue is officially over yet.
    
    Dawn

    It appears that the AHSA uses Digital management practices not to come
    to hard decisions. Use of the new ASTM hats is, for the time being,
    only "recommended" at AHSA recognized combined training events and
    other competitions involving junior riders. The issue will be
    "revisited" at a later date.
    
    The important things to remember are that any protective helmet is
    better than no helmet at all (if you're headed head first for the dirt
    from on top of your horse). The ASTM helmets claim to offer more
    protection than any other riding hat on the market. To offer the
    highest level of protection a helmet must fit correctly and be securely
    attached to one's head. Unfortunately the ASTM helmets do not fit a
    significant number of riders whose head shape differs from that assumed
    by the manufacturers.
    
    My bottom line advice is that if you can find an ASTM helmet that
    actually fits you and can be securely fastened so that it does not move
    on your head, wear it when you are riding. It should protect you better
    (but not completely) than any of the others. If, like me, your head
    shape differs from that these ASTM hat designs assume, find the best
    fitting most secure hat you can and wear that. There are other testing
    standards - British Standard 4472, a German D.I.N. equivalent as well
    as the old USPC standard - that some hats meet. In my case, I have
    several BS4472 helmets that are a better fit and more secure than the
    ASTM ones I tried. 
    
    My final comment is that those who ride without wearing a hard hat are
    clearly demonstrating that there is nothing inside their skull worth
    protecting. 

    Re: .10
    
    As far as replacing an ASTM helmet after the first fall with it, I
    believe that this is also the case for all other safety helmets as
    well.  I have seen this recommendation printed in catalogs for Caliente
    and Belmont helmets.  I don't know if dropping a helmet on the floor is
    considered in the same category as hitting your head during a fall
    while wearing the helmet.  From what I've heard all helmets that are
    involved in a fall lose some amount of protective ability, so you will
    get less protection from it on subsequent falls.  This is why it's
    recommended to replace any helmet after the first fall.  I don't see
    this as a reflection on the safety or quality of the new helmets.
    
    						Jan

It looks like the USCTA *is* upholding the new helmet ruling...

As of April 1, 1991, ALL USCTA competitors must have a new ASTM-SEI approved
helmet to compete in USCTA events.

At least that's what my latest USCTA News says.... Subject to change with notice
of course ;^)

both had some models in the 6 1/2 - 7 1/4 range of the ASTM helmets... That was
about 2 weeks ago...

    I bought a Saratoga II last summer, at StateLine. I love it, it's
    very comfortable, and covers my head much better than the old one
    I was using.

    We got ours at Dover Saddlery.  They were on sale this winter - you
    might want to check to see if they still are.  It was the cheapest
    price we could find in catalogs or in local tack shops (WA state).

As far as recommending brands, I think which helment you choose is dependent on
the shape of your head.  You couldn't pay me enough to wear any of the 
Saratogas, because they sit too high on my head.  I bought (got for my 
birthday last year, actually) one of the helmets with a removable visor and
vent holes. IMHO, since they all have to pass the same safety standdards, the
only difference is how they fit, and you want to get one that fits correctly.

    I mentioned in note 1421 about a "lightweight/cooler" helmet
    that a couple of people have expressed interest in directly
    to me, so I thought I'd post some information.
    
    The helmet is called a "ventilated safety helmet" and
    was offered by a company called "On Course" in their
    Spring 1990 calendar.  I just called the toll-free number
    and it had been CHANGED (note, Don and Susan), because
    the On Course line of clothing/accessories has been
    acquired by a company called Eiser's.  They are still
    offering the helmet, and the woman is sending me
    their catalog.  The toll-free number is 1-800-526-6987.
    
    The helmet has ventilation holes and a "Coolmax" fabric
    liner.  Coolmax is a fabric which quickly wicks away
    moisture.  I have some On Course summer socks made of
    Coolmax which I love, for inside hunt boots.  The
    helmet also has a chin strap and meets the ASTM/SEI 
    standards.  It comes/came in white, black, and metallic
    blue.  It has a snap-off visor of the same hard material
    as the helmet.  The helmet finish is kind of like what
    you'd see for a motorcycle helmet.
    
    I have NOT used one of these helmets, but a woman I
    ride with does, and really likes hers.  I also have
    bought some of On Course's winter riding clothes
    (jacket, riding pants, and winter socks) and can 
    attest to the quality in general.
    
    In the old On Course catalog, the helmet sold
    for $75. for the white, $89. for the black or blue.
    They also sold helmet covers for $29, but I wonder if
    the covers have ventilation holes too? or maybe it's
    for the winter!
    
    Finally, the old On Course catalog also included 
    a velvet hunt cap with the Coolmax liner (no vents)
    for $85.
    
    If anyone has experience with these helmets, please
    post it!
    
    Jennie

I have the blue one.  I've only worn it once, and I can attest that just because
it has holes in it won't mean you won't sweat, although my hair might not have 
been quite so plastered to my head.  I always wear a helmet, and always get hot 
when I ride (down to shirt sleeves in winter), so I'm not sure whether I'll 
notice the difference too much.

My sister got mine wholesale from a friend who owns a tack shop, so I can't 
attest to the price.

The 'care and feeding' paper that came with it said that you could user 
automotive wax to keep the shine, and automotive touch-up paint to repair any
scratches. 8*)

I like having the (removable) visor.  I anticipate that in the summer it will 
help cut down on my headaches (I hate to ride with sunglasses), but I won't 
know for sure about that until summer.  I have complete confidence that if I 
fall on my face, the visor will do the 'appropriate thing'.

I call it my 'policemans hat'. 

re: .0 - covers for these helmets.  

They probably don't have holes in them. You wouldn't need the holes because the
covers are fabric of some sort and would let the air pass through.

    John and I both got the white helmets with removable visors.  We
    haven't worn them much yet, so can't say how they'll be in the heat. 
    We got our on sale from Dover Saddlery (mail order) for something like
    $60.  I'm sure Dover also has helmet covers for them, but don't know
    the price.  We have had good luck getting helmet covers from Dover for
    other helmets.  You can send them the helmet measurements and they'll
    custom make a cover.  Kiirja - you might try them for a black velvet
    cover.
    
    						Jan

    
    
    Since Kiirja started it, I thought I would report on my new helmet.  I
    think it is a Lexington (I think I just saw an ad in Practical Horseman
    or in Equus for them).  It has more holes (8) than most of the
    ventilated helmets.  
    
    I have been using it for trail riding.  I have been out for hours in it
    and one time after being out 4 hours, my hair got only a little damp.  
    
    It is a low profile helmet with a snap off brim.  It is comfortable
    with my very LARGE sunglasses.  This was an consideration since many
    helmets push down on my glasses -- either on my ears or on my nose or
    both. 
    
    The things I don't like are aesthetic -- it has a black harness rather 
    than tan or clear.  And it looks like a police helmet.  
    
    But it is very comfortable.  And I can put a cover on it if I wish.
    
    It also does not have a chin cup, but I don't prefer them so it isn't
    an issue for me.
    
    And it beats having my head bashed by tree limbs.
    Mary Jo

Well, I might as well add my $.02

I also have the 'policeman's helmet'.  Overall, I am pleased with it.  I have
to agree with Kiirja and Mary Jo that your head does seem to stay drier than
with my other helmet (I haven't retired it yet :^))

My only gripe is that there isn't enough clearance over my ears.  I like my 
helmet to sit down on my head, and to not have my ears squashed by the harness.
When this helmet is down far enough on my head, the styrofoam padding presses
down on the tops of my ears.  But it's not enough to bother me while I ride.  I
only notice it when I first put the helmet on.

I kind of miss my old chinstrap, but I'm getting used to this one.  

I like the visor.  I can't ride with sunglasses, so the visor (nice and big)
really helps keep the sun out of my eyes.  I feel pretty confident that in the
event of a fall, it would easily snap off and not cause problem.

	Well, since someone started the trend :^)

	I just bought a new Eventor (I know, the one everyone hates) and I
	really love it! It has the plastic hook closure (rather than
	the double metal D's), a comfortable chinstrap and it really seems
	to be alot cooler than my old style caliente. It seems to be light
	weight and it fits my head nicely too (and, best of all, no more
	headaches from the heat! :^))

    Since none of the riding helmet manufacturer's make an ASTM approved
    helmet big enough to fit me I have been having a series of coversations
    with the "authorities" and in particular the chairman of the ASTM
    ad-hoc committee which drew up the standards. "Fit" is not something
    the standards cover. However, there are still a number of
    mnaufacturers trying to get their helmets approved, but I doubt that
    any one of them will see a large market for selling helmets to large
    male riders.
    
    Therefore I go to the phrase "or exceeds (the ATSM standard)" in the
    regulations. There are two other more severe standards than the ASTM.
    One is the Department of Transportation (DOT) standard for motor cycle
    helmets and other is the SNELL standard. Some states have required
    trotting racers/drivers to wear SNELL approved helmets for some time.
    So you can get a style of motor cycle half-helmet much worn by Harley
    Davidson riders - I tried these but they didn't fit either - or as I
    ended up with, a real Policeman's helmet meeting the SNELL standard.
    Neither of these solutions are for the fashion concious (unless you're
    attending a riot - on either side!).

How much would a blue velvet riding helmet cost these days?

The reason I ask, is I have one from when I was a little girl.

Just ran across it during a recent move and someone may want to buy it off of
me but I have no idea how much to charge.

It is in near perfect condition, clean, and could be used by a child for
show purposes as well as lessons.

Any suggestions on price would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Dawn

    
    I would be very careful about getting any money for a non ASTM approved
    helmet these days.  I know some tack stores who won't even sell them
    because of potential legal problems.
    

    I noticed at the 15 mile trail ride I went on this Sunday,
    that most of the riders wore helmets.  I think this is a
    smart move, and even more so when the woman riding with me,
     who is leasing my other horse, came out of the saddle and
    fell head first! (It wasn't funny at the time, but that's another
    story (; )  Why is it considered "wimpy" to wear a helmet?
    I belong to 4 riding clubs, and only see a helmet on 1 or 2
    people, 1 of them being myself!  Especially on the kids, who
    are doing Gymkhana events....what gives?
    
    The story:
    
    We were about 2 miles into the ride, and walking along the
    path, when Abe put his head down to rub his nose/face.
    He came to a complete stop, so imagine my open mouthed
    amazement when the woman literally slid head first down
    his neck, and hit the ground right in front of him!
    I guess she had been gripping the reins so tight, that
    when he put his head down to scratch, he pulled her right
    out of the saddle!  I didn't think she had hurt herself,
    because, frankly, he's 14.3 and was at a standstill, but
    she did something to her neck and shoulders.  Thank goodness
    part of my rules were she had to wear a helmet!
    I pictured having to ride back and get an ambulance, but after
    a few minutes, she wanted to continue.  By the end of the 3.5
    hours, though, she was one hurtin' rider!
    
    L 
    
    
    

    Gee -- I didn't think it was wimpy to wear a helmet.  You mean people
    have been looking at me all this time and chuckling 8^}} ??? 
    Seriously, I don't even think about what people think.  I avoided what
    could have been a really bad injury a long time ago, because I had a
    helmet on.  I was galloping a horse around an cross coutry course, when
    he stepped in a hole and we both flipped over.  When he was getting up
    his hoof smashed into the side of my head and *broke* my helmet.  If I
    hadn't been wearing one, the very best outcome probably would have
    been that I'd have been drooling into my shoes for the rest of my life.
    
    I've NEVER got on a horse without a helmet since that day.  Even for a
    short hop to the barn.  A young girl in your area (Hanson I believe) 
    was killed a few years ago when she got on her horse in her driveway,
    something spooked him, and she went off and landed on her head on the
    asphalt.
    
    Waer that helmet.  If someone not wearing one kids you, just say that
    what's in his head obvously isn't worth saving!
    
    -ellie

re: .38 & .37

The anecdotal replies are good reasons to voluntarily wear a helmet but in the
future for "organized" rides, you may have little or no choice.

In example of what I mean: The riding club in which I belong, last night,
discussed helmet use to great extent while we were wrestling with our '93 
liability insurance renewal form (all 8 pages of it).

The end result is for our functions (shows, trail-rides & clinics), Helmets 
are manditory for everyone (english/western, child/adult) for the 1993 season 
of events. We simply can not afford the liability of participants not wearing 
helmets. Our "Pres" has been in contact with other local clubs and they too are 
facing the same awkward situation. (eg No Helmet = No Ride) Organizers can not 
afford to NOT have insurance, and you can't get insured unless you meet the 
insurance co's "criteria". (eg... make 'em wear helmets or your policy rates
will double.)

Our legal-driven society has put us in the position to self-mandate helmet
use or be sued out of existance. Again this applies to horsey-organizations and
probably training/lesson barns.

Nonetheless, helemts are a good thing. (and I don't think they look bad at all.)

Ed

Then next question is:  If you are requiring helmets, are you requiring the
new ASTM/SEI approved ones?  Are you requiring ones with chin straps (and not
just an elastic) and the chinstraps *fastened*?


People don't wear riding helmets for the same reason they don't wear 
motorcycle helmets.  It ain't cool, they like the feel of the wind in their
hair, they don't want to mess up their hair, cowboys (i.e. those who ride in 
western tack) don't wear helmets, they forgot, they didn't want to make the 
extra trip to get it, they can't afford one (but then, how can they afford to 
ride?)...whatever.  None of then good reasons, imho.

kmr

re:.40 (TOMLIN::ROMBERG)
	No, we did not make the distiction, as ASTM/SEI is only one of many
	standards. We decided that requiring a helmet was sufficient in
	regards to enabling the provisions of our insurance policy and limiting
	our liability. It will be difficult as it is to get people to simply
	wear a helmet never mind enforcing standards.

Ed

Ed,

Please consider requiring chin straps. A helmet without a securely fastened 
chin strap can come off easily in an accident, and then there is no protection
at all.

    Requiring too much can make liability too.  Requiring "a helmet"
    is good enough for insurance purposes.  Hmmm...I can just picture
    a beginner showing up in a football helmet......
    
    L

Re: 144.42 (TOMLIN::ROMBERG)

	I agree with you, 100%.

re: .43 (BUSY::MANDILE)

	Actually, per your musings, a football helmet is ALOT better in
	impact resistance than many of the "hunt caps" that I've seen.
	How appropriate a football helmet is for riding? I don't have the 
	expertise to say. For a horse show going by AHSA rules, it's
	inapproriate. For a trail ride, your guess is as good as mine.
	
	We could require federally approved DOT helmets. ASTM is only
	just another standard, DOT "standard" is a legal minimum requirement
	on US roads and highways. But who is going to ride with a fiberglass 
	bowling ball on the head? Would anyone care if I rode with my
	$350 Simpson "darth-vader" style kevlar/carbon-fiber DOT, ANSI, SNELL 
	approved motorcycle helmet? It's 1000% "better" than ASTM/SEI. I can
	fall off my horse at 150 mph and be guarenteed my head will be intact.
	But it looks kinda weird while riding...

	Ah the dilemas facing riders today. For me, the answer is simple,
	get the best helmet comercially available that is appropriate for the
	activity. If for riding it's ASTM/SEI hunt or event helmet, then so be it.
	Although I will admit I still like my old pony-club approved hard hat.

Ed

    re .-1            
    
    Yes, you are absolutely right -- there are probably many types of
    helmet that are better at protecting you than the "approved" riding
    helmets.  I think this is why the catalogs now print a disclaimer on
    the helmet page, saying something to the effect that they are offering
    these for sale, but they are not implying that they are the best
    protection available.  And they now label the non-approved helmets as
    "items of apparel only".  As if anyone would wear a hunt cap as a
    fashion statement!  8*}

    A couple random thoughts on helmets:
    
    1. Motorcycle helmets are perfectly satisfactory for riding horses. If
    I remember correctly, there was a discussion about helmets for those w/
    heads larger than the range of sizes in which riding helmets are
    available. The fiberglass bowling ball of the cop helmet and motorcycle
    helmet fit the bill perfectly and meet/exceed the standards for riding
    helmets.
    
    2. Please do up the chin strap! And include a done up chin strap in
    your clubs rules. Showjumping's Ian Millar is a good example of why
    they should be done up. Two or 3 years ago, Millar did not use his chin
    strap. He fell from a horse(not Big Ben) during a tournament and
    suffered a severe concussion because HIS HELMET CAME OFF! He was out
    like a light and if I'm not mistaken was hospitalized for several days
    as well as being off riding for months. He has since vowed not to jump
    w/o his chin strap done up but he still rides w/ the strap dangling at
    times so his reformation is not yet complete.
    
    3. Personally, I were a helmet at all times w/ the strap done up. About 8
    years ago when we were still in New England, we were riding around the
    edge of a hay field. Jan was behind me. Her horse stepped in a woodchuck
    hole that mine had safely missed and fell with her. Jan went over the
    mare's neck and landed on her head. Fortunately she had on her helmet
    so her injuries were limited to a mild headache and jammed neck. Nothing
    that a few days rest and a good chiropractor couldn't put right! The
    horse was alright.
    
    4. A friend whose horse fell with her when she was not wearing a helmet
    was hospitalized for over a week w/ severe concussion, amnesia and some
    loss of senses like taste and smell. She did not recover all her memory
    or her sense of taste in the 4 years between the time of her accident and 
    the time we moved west.
    
    John

    This note is kinda old, and I'm in the market for a new helmet, and I
    *know* there are newer technology helmets on the market.  SO, noters,
    who owns:
    	Troxel
    	Pro-Rider ASTM
    	Lexington
    
    I'm interested in a helmet for schooling mainly, as I'm *way FAR away*
    from showing, but eventually I'd like to show again.
    
    I've heard rave reviews about Troxels.  Any other brands that people
    like?
    
    Dana

    My brother recently bought a Lexington, and likes it very much.
     
    Personally, I have a several years old Saratoga II...I dont' believe
    they make them anymore? I haven't seen them in the catalogs in a while
    - and I hate shopping so I don't visit the tack shops often enough to
    notice if they stock them now or not.  I love it, though!  It's very
    comfortable, and I can wear it 4 - 5 hours at stretch without being
    too hot or cumbersome.  I do wish it had a visor, though, it's not
    easy finding helmet covers that are made with visors on them rather
    than just a slot for one.
        

    I have a Lexington which I bought a couple years ago when my old
    faithful Saratoga finally gave up(i.e. absorbed so much sweat the
    padding rotted). 
    
    Since I too hate shopping, I was gonna pick out a new helmet from a mail 
    order catalog. Jan(the cheap skate that she is) suggested we go to a 
    tack shop and try on helmets to decide what we like and then order the 
    same model from the cheapest source. That way we'd get what we liked and 
    a decent price.
    
    I'm glad I went to try them on. Each helmet fit slightly differently.
    I needed a slightly different size in various brands. I ended up
    getting the Lexington because it fit me best. I decided to buy it from 
    the tack shop because they took a lot of time making sure I had a decent 
    fit. I wouldn't have felt right if I had left there and ordered the same 
    helmet from a catalog...
    
    We talked about getting Troxels for summer riding. The Lexingtons are
    pretty hot in summer because they're not vented at all. But, we haven't
    done it yet. You do know there's a special discount program that gets
    you a decent price on the Troxels, don't you?
    
    
    John

    Re: .40
    
    It appears that a few more manufacturers have entered the market for
    ASTM helmets. Ever hopeful that one of them may realize that not
    everybody has the same size or shaped head (see my previous entries in
    this string on the difficulties I have in finding a hat that fits
    properly) whenever I am in a tack shop I look to see if they have any
    new types of helmet. The good news is that manufacturers are making
    more sizes of ASTM helmet, even sizes big enough for me. The bad news
    is they are still nearly all using the same style of harness - lace up
    at the back and one adjustment on the chin strap - which means these
    helmets don't stay on my head. Depending on the size and shape of your
    head you may find them more suitable.
    
    The exception is a helmet made in Australia sold under the name "Aussie
    Rider". It has a different design of harness more like the BS 4472
    ritish standard) hats in the U.K. with adjustments in the straps
    between the chin strap and the back of the helmet. They also come with
    a variety of velcro attached foam pad inserts (front, back, either side
    and top) so you can adjust the fit in all dimensions. These "Aussie
    Rider" hats are also relatively inexpensive - <$40 during sales at
    State Line (Plaistow, New Hampshire). I bought two since these are the
    only design I have found that fit me as well as the BS 4472 hats I have
    worn previously.

    I saw written up it in a couple magazines in the short "newsy" columns
    toward the back. I'll look it up because they had a phone number that
    you call to get a coupon for a substantial discount/rebate. It was
    through some hospital as part of a head injury prevention program.
    
    j

Does anyone know how a standard bicycle helmet compares for safety to a
horse-riding helmet?  

    I vote for the Troxel!
    
    I ordered one this summer from a catalog and was so happy that I did! 
    It was an incredibly hot summer here in Europe and wearing the Troxel
    really made a difference in keeping me cool.  It has vents like a
    bicycle helmet, and it's white.  The inside liner wicks away the
    moisture and helps to keep your head from sweating (and dripping into
    my eyes).  They come in size S,M,L and have inserts that you use to fit
    the helmet to your head.  The instructions say that you want it tight
    enough so when you move the helmet the skin on your forehead moves
    also.  
    
    Dover has it in their catalog for $44.95, which is the cheapest I've
    seen it.  I've also heard of the "deals" that John mentioned, but I
    don't think they're much cheaper than what Dover is offering them for.
    
    Also, Troxels are guaranteed for life - if you fall and hit your
    helmet, you can send it back to the for testing and if it doesn't pass
    their rigorous test, they'll replace it for *free*.  I've heard that
    Troxel is very quick in getting a new helmet to you.
    
    Re -1 and bicycle helmets:
    
    I'm a firm believer in helmets and I wear one when I ride my bike also. 
    However, if you compare a bicycle helmet to an equestrian helmet,
    you'll find that a bicycle helmet doesn't cover as much of your head as
    an equestrian helmet.  I would not use a bicycle helmet when riding a
    horse.  Get a good ASTM approved helmet specifically designed for
    equestrian use.
    
    Janet
                                                        

    After digging around, I found the article and guess what? The program
    is based right in my own backyard! It's through Harborview Hospital in
    Seattle. They run Harborview Injury Prevention and Research Center.
    They are running nationwide programs on various kinds of safety helmets
    including equestrian helmets. I called and talked to the program
    coordinator. She's sending me the complete package of info so I'll be
    able to answer questions better next week. If you want to get in touch
    with her directly, I've included that info later. She told me they can 
    provide a lot of stuff in addition to discounts on Troxel EQ helmets:
    
    	1. Troxel discount coupons. Helmet price $41.95 + $3.50 shipping
    	   Order from participating distributor in CA by phone or mail
    	   Your order must include the coupon number with the order.
    
    	2. Informational brochures on *ALL* varieties of ASTM/SEI approved
    	   helmets: western, schooling, english, etc.
    
    	3. Educational material as to why you should wear helmets
    
    	4. Group packages for leaders. 
    
    	5. If you are a leader of a non-profit group (4h, Pony Club, GMHA,
    	   NEDA, etc) you can get a complete package including a community
    	   guide which includes educational material, sample press release
    
    	6. Fundraising! Info on how YOUR organization can pariticpate in
    	   as sponsors in the helmet program. As a sponsor, your
    	   organization gets a $5 donation for every Troxel helmet sold
    	   through your coupons. Our local riding club(Equestrians'
    	   Institute) received $1500 in the past year through this program.
    
    	7. For 4H and Pony Club groups, they also have a 15% discount program
    	   for *ANY* helmet purchased at a retail outlet. She said this 
    	   program is "tricky" because of the procedures required and that 
    	   not all retailers honored the coupons.
    
    For a Troxel discount coupon or the educational material contact:
    	Nicole Walters
    	Equestrian Helmet Program Coordinator
    	Harborview Injury Prevention and Research Center
    	325 Ninth Ave, ZX-10
    	Seattle WA 98104
    	
    	(206)521-1538

    Hi - I went to State Line over the weekend to try on helpmets.  I was
    disappointed they didn't carry troxels, but they did carry lexington
    and Aussie Rider and a couple of other brands.  
    
    Everything that looked like a 'normal' riding hat (ie black velvet
    covered) weighed a ton.  Not sure why.
    
    The schooling helmets seemed to offer the most variety as far as
    internal fitting mechanisms - some had removeable pads, others had
    inflatable (pump head) innards, and others had interchangeable pads.  
    
    Some helmets were simply designed to fit a certain shaped head (ie
    Aussie Rider seemed to be designed to fit someone with a longer head,
    Lexington was fitted for a more round head).
    
    Average price was about $55. (US)
    
    I'm really glad I went to try them on.  Not only is my hat size
    different from what I thought it was, it seems that each manufacturer
    interprets hat size a little differently.
    
    Dana

    Last night I was in the neighborhood so I swung by Dover Saddlery as I
    knew from their catalog that they carried Troxels.  They also carry
    Pro-rider ASTM and Lexington.
    
    I liked the Pro-Rider ASTM but I couldn't get it to fit well enough
    that it didn't feel like it was coming forward over my eyes when I
    sharply  moved my head.  
    
    I bought the Troxel.  I cannot believe how lightweight it is - the box
    says only 11.5 oz.  It's got vent holes not just on the top but on the
    front too so air would flow through the helmet when riding, similar to
    my bicycle helmet.  The fitting system was quite versatile - AND the
    harness pieces don't rub my ears!
    
    The only concern I have is whether the chin strap will bother my adams
    apple - there's a lot of bulk down there with the fastek buckle, the
    sizing thingie, and the 4 pieces of harness webbing that is excess. 
    When I drop my chin down to look at the ground it hits me in the
    throat.  It's fine if I look straight ahead.  Of course, why should I
    be looking down at the ground anyway??
    
    They *are* ugly as sin.  I don't imagine anyone can actually look good
    in one of these things, but I don't particularly care.
    
    I'm riding tonight so we'll have a live test.  Hopefully I won't be
    testing its impact resistance, but then again tonight I get to ride
    without stirrups......
      
    Thanks for all of your comments.
    
    Dana

    Hi Dana,
    
    I'm happy to hear that you bought a Troxel!  I've said it previously,
    but I just *love* mine.  It's so comfortable to wear even though it is
    pretty ugly.  My husband says I look like a motorcycle cop in mine.
    
    As far as the buckle and the straps under your chin, you'll get used to
    it.  I was just thinking last night as I was riding in it that I'm glad
    that I didn't get a helmet with a chin cup.  It feels better to have
    the strap under your chin, and keeping it tight means that it's
    protecting your head better!
    
    Let us know how you like it!
    
    Janet

    I love it.  And I was sure glad to have it on when I *almost* kissed
    the dirt last night!  It is so lightweight it doesn't even feel like
    its there.  
    
    Dana