Conference terri::cars_uk

    I USED TO HAVE A "M" REG PURPLE 1300N SPIT.I can't understand why you 
    should want to "Tune "it!!!
    The car suffered from being a Herald With a Sporty body,but suffered
    all the faults of the original design. Although the front suspension
    had loads of travel,and was used by autocrossers for specials. The
    back suspension,with it's transverse leaf spring (AAAARGHHH) like
    a Trabant? Was fine for granny doing the shopping. But had no place
    on even the most modest "Sports" car! Even with bars to limit travel
    and crazy camber angles, Basically however much effort you spend on it.
    If you start with a piece of Sh_t you'll only end up with a slightly
    less smelly piece of Sh_t.....
    The 2 litre GT6 was a better effort,and might be worth messing around
    with. But a Spitfire???? Really.
    The Spit is an example of over confident British Motor industry
    thinking they could get away with pulling the wool over the eyes
    of the great british public. But really only insulting their
    inteligence!
             

	Yes it is an antiquated design, yes BL/BMC/et al sold it for too
	long without the investment (see equivalent note on MGBs) but
	it (the suspension) certainly goes well enough under a Marlin
	Roadster, so it must be tuneable.

	Dave

    Dave,
    
    I got out the middle today!
    I was only joking.
    
    Good luck Matt.
    

    A certain car magazine's opinion of this car was such that they  
    always referred to the model in print as a Spitf***.
    
    I gave up trying to explain to my sister, who used to drive her
    boyfriend's 1500 that my Dolomite 2000 16v was a tad faster! 
    
    I once fancied GT6 MKIII (poor man's E-type), but somehow fell in
    love with the Dolly.
    
    Mark

    
    but where else can you buy a car which raced at Le Mans in almost 
    standard form for next to nothing?
    
    Mark 

    Having owned 2 of these cars I am more than aware of their inherent
        suspension problems highlighted in note 2169.1.
    
            However,if all of the major suspension components are new or
        reconditioned (i.e. rear/front springs,bushes,etc) and a set of
    good
        soft compound low profile tyres fitted the handling is infact very
        good-yes you still have to watch what you're doing in the wet.
    
            My wife has a Renault 5 GT turbo and although the spitfire is
    now
        where near a match for it's acceleration I feel more confident
    about
        throwing the spitfire into a corner (in the dry) than the 5.
    
            I would still like to hear from anyone that has actually tuned
        these cars -possibly using some of the triumph kits available.
    
            My 1500 is fitted with an uprated triumph tune engine,outlet
    manifold  
        and exhaust.This boosted the engines power output by approx. 10-15
    bhp.
    
    
    	Ian

    As the GT6 is basicly a spit with a tin top why not plant a six in your
    spit. 
    I had a late type 1500 and a V8 LR90 simultanuously and some quick
    measuring made me wonder why the alu Rover powerplant is not a popular
    performance item for the spit. A standard V8 with autotran is a real
    jem and still delivers around 150 hp easily which is quite enough for
    the lightweight spit.
    Just imagine the a-synchronous rumbling from the twin exhausts when 
    effortlessly touring along top down...
    
    Peter 

    Well well, lets delve in to the mythical bad suspension of the spitfire
    and the GT6, and a little about that 'standard' Le Mans car.
    
    I think we'll take Le Mans first. These cars weren't exactly standard.
    I actually know someone who has one, almost complete. This, by the way
    is a truly real Le Mans spitfire, not a fake, like that owned by the
    TSSC.
    
    These cars had an Aluminium body shell, had a fibre-glass roof, and a
    stage-4 cross flow head on the Engine. They averaged 100Mph over the 24
    hours, and were highly successful (Most spitfires have a problem
    reaching 100mph, let alone averaging it!). However, the rear suspension
    was standard, with the front having slightly harder than normal
    springs. If you ever see the Le Man races of the time (I've see a video
    of an 8mm film, I was 1 in 1964), you actualy see the Spitfires taking
    other cars on corners.
    
    Now to look at the Spitfire suspension. So, yes it had the transverse
    spring, and tends to have wheel tuck if you take a corner quickly.
    There are a number of things you can do about that:-
    
    1) Fit a rear anti-roll bar. This improves the situation, but does not
    fix it.
    
    2) Fit Rotoflex suspension from Vitesse MKII, GT6 MK II or early GT6 mk
    III. This does a good job, and is my chosen route. Again, it doesn't
    cure the problem completly, but goes a long way to solving it. The
    Rotoflex rear suspension was Triumphs answer to the criticisms of the
    suspension on higher powered herald based cars, and the GT6 MK II got
    extremely good reviews at the time (Unfortunately, the damage had
    already been done by the MK I), such comments as "Triumph have listened
    to the criticisms of the car, and have fixed them all". Basically, the
    way the Rotoflex works is to add some flexibility to the half shaft so
    that the wheel stays perpendicular to the road for longer, and you can
    then take corners at higherspeeds.
    
    3) Fit the swing spring from the 1500 Spitfire (And maybe MK IV, but
    not sure). This was the cheaper alternative to the Rotoflex, which
    became too expensive for Triumph to make for such a low cost car. This
    also replaced Rotoflex on the GT6 MKIII. It is certainly an improvement
    on the standard traverse leaf spring but, in my opinion, is not as good
    as rotoflex.
    
    4) Live with the way it works now. This might sound flippant, and
    crazy, but if it is all set up correctly, then the rear-end slide is
    very predictable, and can be easily controlled. It can make for some
    very impressive roundabout handling!
    
    I get really annoyed at people saying that the Spitfire and GT6 was
    rubbish. This usually comes from an uninformed viewpoint. It sold more
    cars every year it was in production than the midget (MG and Healey
    sprite together), which it competed against. There was one exception,
    when Triumph were on strike for 7 months of the year, and the Spitfire
    was always more expensive. I'm not saying the Midget was a good car,
    but I'm so sick of people going on about MG's, and their over inflated
    prices, I thought I'd point that out.
    
    Lastly, back to the original point. There are a number of things you
    can do to tune the car, and it depends on what you want at the end.
    
    1) Upgrade the engine. If you have a MK III 1300, then you can tune
    this to your hearts content. This was the best engine Triumph produced
    for the spitfire, as the MK IV was reduced in power to cope with
    American emmission regulations. If you have a MKIV, then change it to a
    MK III engine, and then tune that. 
    
    If you go to Triumph tune, be careful about what you buy. A Common
    accessory they sell is the ability to take oil from the crank to the
    head, as Triumph Engines rattle when first started (as all the oil is
    in the sump!). Don't buy this! When you tune your engine, you'll be
    pulling oil away from the bottom end, and will end up destroying that
    quicker.
    
    You can upgrade the engine to a 1600 (Straight six). This is a good
    option, especially for a 1500, as it makes no difference to the
    insurance, gives you loads of bottom end torque, and sounds beautiful. 
    However, some 1600 parts are becoming hard to find.
    
    Upgrade to 2-Litre. For this, I would buy a scrap GT6, and take all the
    suspension and replace the those on the spitfire. You obviously have to
    replace the bonnet, to take the longer engine. You basically end up
    with a convertible GT6.
    
    If you have a 1500 engine, chuck it. They are rubbish! There isn't
    enough strength in them to tune. It is not uncommon to see a 1500
    engine knackered at 40,000 miles.
    
    2) Tune up the engine. Best to find the original tuning kits, but they
    are hard to find. You can go to places like Triumph Tune, who do
    reasonable copies. Best place to start, though, is the exhaust. Buy one
    of the performance manifolds and exhause systems. Often this on its own
    can make a huge difference.
    
    3) Buy a GT6!
    
    4) Fit an overdrive, if you don't have one. Does nothing for your
    acceleration, but improves top end and fuel consumption.
    
    By the way, you've probably realised that I am a Triumph fan. I used to
    have a Vitesse MK II convertible that I built myself, I sold this to
    engage on my current project - a 2-litre Turbo Charged MK III Spitfire!
    This car has been 3.5 years in the making so far. The engine has
    already been in a car and test driven (For older TSSC members see issue
    97 of the Corier, Turbo Vitesse). This engine pushed out 147 bhp, as
    tested on a rolling road (Standard engine is around 80 bhp, they claim
    98 but this was on a bench with perfect fuel mix, no alternator, etc).
    We have since re-designed the turbo manifold design as the turbo was
    only working at 20% efficiency, it is now working at 60%. The old
    version would take a Vitesse to 60 in 7.5 secs, so god knows what this
    will do. 
    
    The engine is a standard 2-litre engine with the head from a 2.5s
    saloon (to lower the compression ratio). The gearbox is froma TR6/2.5pi
    saloon, as the standard box wouldn't take the power - this meant that
    the chasis had to be altered slightly, as the box was longer.
    
    The suspension is all 2-litre stuff (from a GT6 MK II), with Ford Capri
    2.8i vented disks and widened Girling calipers at the front and a
    Girling Power Stop brake Servo ( I want to stop as well as go!). 
    
    Other than the bulge in the bonnet (GT6 mk II), and the wolfrace
    wheels, this car looks totaly standard from the outside. That should
    fool a few people!
    
    Martin
    
    P.S> I've also got a Bond Equipe - anyone want me to start preaching
    about those!

>Note 2169.8              The Triumph Spitfire Notes File                  8 of 8


Well said Martin!

I had a Mark III spitfire and it was great - especially around corners - my
Astra SRi was much less predictable (especially in the wet!)

admitedly it had the GT6 bonnet and few neat bits under the bonnet. Definitely
a car you can tinker with - and get some reward for your effort too - but the
basic car was damn fine!

I would have fixed the problems starting on a cold day but got a good offer
when I moved to Reading (and a place with nowhere to keep a second car)

cheers,
	Paul.

Hi All,

     I have a 1975 Spitfire that I am currently restoring.  The car itself
has 10K original miles on it.  I just had the body restored and painted 
Corvette yellow.  I know this is totaly unacceptable by the purest but that
color looks very nice.  The original color was British racing Green, now
you would be quite hard pressed to tell.  I hope that you guys will still
converse with me after this.  This purchase was for my wife and alot cheaper
than a Mazda Miata.  I am in the US currently living in New Hampshire.  As
I get back into Finishing up the restoration I may have some questions. 
One that comes to mind is about the electrical system and grounding.  I would
like to know where the major ground points are located.  Well look forward
to your replys.

Thanks

Scott

    Wel said Martin! 2
    
    I am on my third spitfire, this time a mkiii of sorts. I have had a
    Mkiv 1500 S reg,Mkiii 1300 J reg and now have what is known on the
    registration document as a GT6Mkii convertible.It is a GT6Mkii chassis,
    doors and bonnet, spitfire mkiii bodyshell.GT6 rotoflex suspension with
    stiffened spax adjustable springs, dolomite 1850 od gearbox,GT6
    brakes without a servo, and the best bit, a Triumph TR6 2.5pi race tuned
    engine with straight through twin exhaust.Your average RS Turbo driver
    thinks its a hairdryer, but gets mighty unhappy when you follow him at
    120mph.Don,t get me wrong I'm a purist at heart, but since the car uses
    all Triumph parts I even get cheap insurance. The noise is enough to
    satisfy my thirst for an E type or Austin Healey 3000 which I will
    never be able to afford. The big problem I have is the fuel tank.I
    can't let it run lower than 1/4 full otherwise you accelerate hard and
    the engine dies having got air in the injectors.With a spit tank and
    heavy consumption this means about 100miles between petrol stops!
    	Getting back to spits in general, Ive had Alfas, BMWs,Dolly
    sprints,MG Bs and Midgets, Mini Coopers,Cavalier sris16v etc and I
    wouldnt swap even my old bog standard mkiii for any of them.
    	Don't knock spits. If you are looking for a cheap sports car, easy
    to work on that won,t break the bank and enjoyable handling there's
    nothing better.
    				Brian.

Hi All,

    I have a question concerning suspension.  I have the 75 Spit in .10 and
currently have it garaged for the winter.  The car has sat for about 10yrs
as I have been told.  I am contimplating buying a major suspension kit from
Victoria British or The Roadster Factory.   Is this all I should need for the
job?  I have had the drivers side rear link off and there was little to no wear 
on the nylon bushing.   The car is said to have under 10K on it and from the
lack of wear on parts that I have had a part I believe it.  Are there any 
comments of things I should look for etc.   


Thanks

Scott

    What's the problem - ie, why do you need to re-build the suspension ?
    
    My primary focus on a car that has sat for a long time would be the
    brakes - rear cylinders and master cylinders especially.
    
    Then the waterpump - that will probably go within the first 1000 km of
    re-use.
    
    My Mk3 Spitfire sat for 8 years on a garage forecourt and in a
    garden...
    
    Paul

Hi,

    can someone answer a small question regarding Triumph 1500 fans. My
    girlfriend's V-reg 1500 Spitfire has a noisy torqatrol (sp?) thingy
    (4-5" diameter alloy finned clutch affair Triumph used when mounting 
    fans on cars of this era). I suspect it's knackered it's bearing(s)
    and when freewheeling the fan it's certainly noisy - sounds like
    a knackered bearing.

    A Triumph place I was at recently (Stag specialist - but loads of Spitfire
    experience) agreed but said that the unit was attached to the water
    pump and, short of pressing the thing off and having a new one pressed
    on, one would have to get a whole new water pump. They also suggested
    that the price would be similar once the work had been done. They weren't
    by the way, offering to do it and, seeing as they rebuilt the engine
    shortly before the noise started, I don't think they're angling for the
    job or trying to pull a fast one.

    Can anyone confirm the likelyhood of having to replace the water pump ?
    The car stood for a year or two before we had the engine 'done' so
    a new water pump probably wouldn't harm it anyway. Any ideas on costs ?

    I can't look at the car myself at the moment and I can't recall how
    the fan was mounted on my 1500 dolly - don't recall a torq-unit and
    on my Stag it's attached to the crank so the water pump story may be
    completely wrong.

Any advice welcome
Thanks,
Ross