Conference terri::cars_uk

    First questions I have are :-
    
    	What are requirements for fire extinguishers in competition cars ?
    
    	What are the details for electrical cut-off and fire-extinguisher
    	switches to be mounted to the vehicle ?
    
    I know the answers to these two will be in the Blue Book, but the
    one I have is a few years out of date and I know some rules changed.
    
    As for the fire extinguisher, I know plumbed-in is needed, but of
    what capacity ?  Is an extra hand-held item also required ?
    
    For the cut-off switches, I believe that they must be operable
    from inside and outside of the car.  One common solution is for
    one part to be a cable pull, connected to the actual switch.  Is
    this still the general method used ?
    
    I think that it may be harder to fit a pull cable than to fit an
    additional switch in the cockpit area.  Would it be reasonable, at
    least for the power cut-off, to wire up two kill switches ?
    
    Back to the plumbed-in extinguisher, any comments on electrically-triggered
    versus mechanically-triggered installations ?
    
    J.R.

    
    John,
    
    I can't answer your question, but I do know that the regulations vary
    from one form of motor sport to another.
    
    The conference will need to know what you're preparing the car for (and
    it'll satisfy my curiosity! :^)).
    
    Mark

    
    If you'd like to borrow a 'new' Blue Book - get in touch....
    
    Even whre a plumbed-in extinguisher isn't compulsory, I'd strongly
    advise it (I'm sure the pros and cons have been discussed somewhere
    here)
    
    Elaine

    If you hadn't guessed, it would be the Stratos Kit that I would
    hope to use in some form of competition.
    
    Initial thoughts are that I might enter Sprints and/or Hillclimbs,
    as they are generally non-damaging (apart from driver error).
    
    It is possible that the Racing bug might bite, but that is prone
    to damage caused by other people on the track (isn't it, Derek?)
    as well as plain driver error again (always a risk, road or track).
    
    My other 'maybe' could be single-venue rallying, on tarmac events.
    This reduces the chance of other drivers causing damage, but
    probably increases my chances of driver error breaking something.
    
    Although it is what I am most interested in, I think that rough
    stage events are something that I will avoid, as that is almost
    certain to involve damage to the vehicle, with or without error.
    If I am to do this sort of stage rallying, I may choose to do so
    in a vehicle other than a Stratos kit - even though that is what
    the original car was made for, and managed very successfully...
    
    J.R.

Having done the types of competition you are thinking about (but not in the
UK), I can give you some of my thoughts.

Hillclimbing is fairly easy on the car, but still demands a high level of
preparation and maint.  Of course, if the road surface is rough, chances of
mechanical failure rise.

Rallying is tons more fun, but a different mentality is needed when you
purposely try to break the car, but still finish.  At least this is how I
classify getting the maximum out of the car.  To do that, you tend to push
some components over the edge, but hopefully they aren't the major ones.

With rallying, the kill switch is recommended to be inside the car, so it won't
get snapped off by some mean branch or tree as you slip off the road.  Saying
that, it should also be clearly marked and accessible from outside the car -
even if through a window or such.

Go for the plumbed in fire extinguisher with a big red button to push.  A
portable bottle might also be nice, but usually isn't required.  Remember, no
matter how good you strap in a removeable bottle, it *will* come loose in a
good crash.  Maybe put it in the trunk or something, to keep it out of the 
passenger area.

Start with hillclimbing (too bad you don't have some of the longer hills like we
do over here) and see how the car and you handle it.  Rallying is a natural
progression from there (either up or down, depending on how you look at it...),
but is a big step.

Dave

    Next questions (well in advance) on 'preparation' :
    
    	Where can I get RTV sealant ?  (Room Temperature Vulcanising ?)
    
    	What about two-pack foam for filling panel/bulhead cavities ?
    
    J.R.

    Further questions, this time on fuel tanks.
    
    Rather than having plain fuel tanks, which would allow fuel to 'slosh
    about' quite a bit, what would be the recommended 'extra' to have
    fitted into the tanks ?
    
    First, foam-filled tanks.  How effective is this, does it reduce capacity ?
    
    Second, baffles in the tank.  These cannot be too effective, but will
    they be of any benefit at all ?
    
    Third, 'explosafe' added to the tanks.  Is this product still in use,
    is it worth fitting at all ?
    
    Fourth, having plain tanks...
    
    Any comments on there possible options ?
    
    Note that I do not intend fitting flexible fuel cells in the tanks.
    
    J.R.

If you build a car for racing, go with the smallest tank you can envision,
that will allow you to finish the race (or go between normal refueling stops.)
If you want it for street use too, you'll probably want a larger tank
for convenience.

The racing fuel cells (foam filled) are very good for racing cars, not much
sloshing around, but the twin pickups and small tank like Derek has is a very
good setup.

These fuel cells usually come in set sizes and are square or rectangular.  If
you have odd shaped cells, these may not work for you.  Can you retrofit the
foam inserts into normal gas tanks?

Will there be a fuel line running between the two tanks to keep them both
the same level?  Maybe this would be a solution....


	---------		---------
	|TANK A	|		|TANK B	|
	|	|		|	|
	|	|		|	|
	|	|===============|	|
	---------	|	---------
			|
		    Fuel pickup point

This way you feed off the bottom of each tank, reducing the sloshing problem,
and both tanks drain at about the same rate.  You could also rig up a similar
return line, splitting it with a Y so both tanks get a somewhat equal amount
of fuel fed back from the f/i system.

Dave

What is required by the blue book and what is prudent may be two different items.
A twin tank system is not simple to work successfully. But this is a working
system if complicated. The fuel injection system takes its fuel from a 1 litre
header tank. Each main tank fills the header via a separate low pressure 
pump with a separate return to each tank. Each return may be closed via a
solenoid valve.
Each main tank has a pickup at the rear and to the outside of the car. 
This would  allow you to run first one tank then the other. 
The venting system for each tank should in order perform correctly in all 
circumstances:
	1) Run so as to have a part of the vent pipe outside the dimensions of
the tank in each of the 6  directions( front, back, left, right , top bottom.
	2) Have petrol proof one way anti syphon valve with slow
backward bleed. A modified servo vaccuum valve can be used for this purpose.

I would suggest you contact in person someone, who has successfully overcome
competition fuel surge and venting problems, with your requirements


			Dell

.10 is not a feasible config since it will fail on the first sharp corner.
On a left hand corner tank B will let air in the line and so the engine
will falter. On a right hander
Tank A will let air in. 

		You need a logical OR
.10 		is a logical AND

What about spare tires?  Does the car have two different sizes, front and back?
What size will be carried in the car (in the front I presume)?  Will not
having both sizes in the car present a problem?

How good are the jack points?  Can you jack up both front tires from one
point, how about one side at a time?  Basically, how many times will you
have to jack the car up to change all 4 tires, 2, 3 or 4 times?

How about prewiring the car for a rally computer?  You can incorporate various
pickup points, both from driven and undriven wheels.

Install map lights, not switched with the ignition (same for the computer).

Wire an intercom for driver/co-driver.

Fit a toolbox somewhere for little tools.  I find this much easier than trying
to find a place for each tool.

Pencil/pen holders.

Make sure there holders inside the passenger compartment for little things
while driving or stopped after events.  Holders for water bottles (NOT CUP
HOLDERS! :-)), someplace snacks can be stored, etc.  Little things like these
make competing much easier.

CB radio or some type, maybe even a scanner for official race communications.

Dave

    Next subject - brake balance.
    
    I definitely want some form of adjustable brake balance built into
    the car, so I have two options available that I know of.
    
    
    1) Adjustable pedal box
    
    2) Adjustable device for reducing pressure in the rear brake line.
    
    
    The former uses a twin master cylinder arrangement and a movable
    'pressure point' where the pedal acts upon the pair of brake cylinders.
    This is what I would probably expect to use, if only because I know
    how it all works and I believe it is the most common solution.
    
    The latter option I know much less about.  It seems to me that the
    device will only be able to work up to a certain amount of brake
    pedal travel.  After that, I would have thought that the device
    would reach its compensatory limits and allow full brake line
    pressure to the rear brakes.  I have no idea if this could really
    happen, as I don't know any specific detail on just how it works.
    Of course, even if this could occur, the wheels may already be
    locked up all round, so would make no real difference.
    
    If someone can explain more about this second device, especially if
    anyone has knowledge of their use, then I would consider using it
    as it should allow me to use a single master cylinder with a brake
    servo, which would provide much easier braking most of the time -
    also a factor to consider as my Wife will want to drive the car too...
    
    J.R.

    re .15

    Have you considered the lever sort of jack, a bit like a wide sack
    barrow.

    Much more convenient on the sprint circuits, but of course it begs the
    question of what support vehicle do you intend using?  
    
    Then you'll need a trolly jack for home use :-)
    
    Dave