Conference terri::cars_uk

    Is there anyone in DECpark who:
    
    a) Has a 405 (estate preferably, but I expect the saloon is similar)
    
    b) Wouldn't mind letting me sit in it for a few seconds.
    
    I just want to check the headroom. This unfortunately has to be one of
    my main criteria when choosing a new car. Somebody mentioned earlier in
    this topic that the drivers seat is now lower than in older models.
    
    Thanks in advance
    
    Dick (IOSG::CARLIN or dtn (830)-3005)
    

    Dick,
    
    A Peugeot dealer can mechanically lower the seat by an inch or two by
    means of brackets etc, so a tight fit might still be possible. You lose
    the facility to adjust the height, in those models fitted with the
    little lever.
    
    Steve

... all the headroom anyone could ever want ;-)

(except when it's raining!)

    I have a colleague with a 405 GLD estate, I've asked him if he'll call
    you....
    
    Richard

On my 405, I seem to have a recurrence of a problem that I also had on my BX
(same family)...

The windscreen washers use one of those long spray bars mounted on the back of
the wiper arm.  On this and the Citroen, they seem very prone to getting
clogged up.   When this happens, I've had to resort to poking pins down the
little holes, then blowing through the pipes (mouth full of soapy water, 
yechhh!)... and the repair usually lasts about three squirts.

Anybody else noticed this ?  Or, better still, got a remedy ?  

I checked with the garage, and they said it's
down to hard water, just poke it with a pin and blow through it..... Is there a 
screen-wash additive that contains water-softener ?


On a similar grouch, those huge long, exposed, matt-black spray bars do
seem to be perfectly designed for freezing water in.   All that liquid. hung
out in a 70 mph sub-zero airstream, I wonder just how cold it _gets_ out there?
Certainly well below the range of any screen-wash additives I've been able to
buy.      Pure alcohol seems to be the only answer, but can you imagine
getting breathalysed ?

"I smelt alcohol on the accused's breath m'lud"

"Oh, no, occifer, that was the fumes from the washer bottle....."


In charge of a vehicle under the influence.....

IanP

    The complaint I had about the spray bars was that the washer water
    dribbled out and down (or up, depending on speed) the screen after all
    washing was finished.
    
    Not a critical problem though. There were plenty of those in my BX.
    
    Steve

    
    Try putting meths in the washer bottle, that tends to discourage
    freezing, problem is it smears quite badly once the temperatures start
    to rise again. We used to buy a screen wash in Germany wich smelt just
    like gin......... can't find it here though :-)
    
    

    
    >>                            -< meths is ok >-
    
    Well that'll save on the drinks bill next time Derek & Elaine come
    to dinner! :^)
    
    Mark
    

I'm running on practically neat meths now (ahh,  the fumes....), but it seems 
to evaporate around the spay jets, and they just freeze again.

.. or maybe it just gets soooooo cold out there...

Anybody know what temperature meths freezes at ?

I remember that german additive.... I seem to recall, pint for pint, some gins
were actually cheaper !

I can also recall putting duty-free schnapps into the washer bottle, in a 
dire emergency.  Brings tears to the eyes, don't it ?


IanP

>> I can also recall putting duty-free schnapps into the washer bottle, in a 
>> dire emergency.  Brings tears to the eyes, don't it ?


	I suppose it would, sticking your head out of the window at
	  speed trying to drink the drops ....

    Re .26
    
    Meths is adulterated ethanol. It is ethanol with enough methanol in it
    to make it undrinkable (by a sane person, anyway) and usually a dye
    (gentian violet or something similar) to identify it as not having had
    exise duty paid. Sometimes the manufacturers add something **REALLY**
    malodorous like pyridine to give it a nasty niff.
    
    Methanol freezes at -97 deg C
    Ethanol freezes at -117 deg C
    
    "Meths" probably exhibits a freezing point close to ethanol, but it
    will vary according to the concentration of the "additives".......
    don't forget that the effective temperature at the jet/windscreen
    whatever will be the air temperature*wind chill factor due to the air
    moving over the surface. 

    Recently with all the snow falling, all genuine products were sold out,
    so I went to my old remedy: Cleaning Spirit / water mixture.
    Thid prevents clogging by frozen particles.
    
    Preventing clogged stuuf as .22: use vinegar / water.
    Smell is terrible, but it works
    
    Hans

Having worked out the theoretical cost of running different cars over 2.5 years,
I'm seriously looking at the 405 GRDT/GTDT for my next car.

However, I've heard from someone in the trade that they're prone to bad leaks in
wet weather: is this the experience of all you 405 owners? I haven't seen
anything to this effect in the notesfile. I know all the stuff about them 
getting rattly, and general build quality being suspect, but I'm more concerned
about leaks....

Any input on this is much appreciated.



Cheers,
Stephen

    My colleague reports that his hasn't leaked in the 15 months he's had
    it. (apart from his power steering, but that's a different matter)
    
    Richard

Had one all through this last winter, and the occasional 
car-wash (Yes, I _do_ wash it now and then....) without any problems at all.

Mine does have an annoying habit of open the driver's window just a crack,
all by itself, which can get a little startling in the car wash, but I'm not
sure if you'd count it as a leak.   More of a pain in the sphincter....


Ian

    There was a problem with early models - the guys in the factory forgot
    to connect the drain pipes to the sun-roof tray thus filling the inside
    of the car with water when it rained/got washed.  This happened on mine
    & the garage fixed it PDQ - no further problems.
    
    John
    

    Some questions on the 405 (1990H petrol).
    
    1. After 50k miles I'm getting a lot of scum in the oil filler. The
    garage said this is normal, but it seems to build up very quickly. It's
    also using up water faster than I would expect. And it's using oil, but
    no more than I would expect from this age of engine. Are these
    connected? Is the head gasket leaking?
    
    2. On a related topic, is it a design feature that it needs two
    screwdrivers to prise the lid off the oil filler, or am I doing it the
    wrong way?
    
    3. (This has been mentioned before, but I didn't see an answer). When
    I'm going along at a steady 40 in 4th say (ie about 2000 revs) the car
    seems to lurch periodically every second or so. If it was electronic
    fuel management then I could imagine an oscillation setting in but, as
    far as I know, this is a straightforward carburettor (an oxymoron if
    ever there was one).
    
    Dick

  >  1. After 50k miles I'm getting a lot of scum in the oil filler. The
  >  garage said this is normal, but it seems to build up very quickly. It's
  >  also using up water faster than I would expect. And it's using oil, but
  >  no more than I would expect from this age of engine. Are these
  >  connected? Is the head gasket leaking?

Is this 'scum' a light, milky colour?  If so, then you have water/coolant 
mixing with the oil which is most likely a head gasket problem.  If you have 
an overflow container or radiator cap, look inside and see if there is a light 
layer of oil on top of the water.

Do you get any white steam out of the tailpipe when you start the engine up?  
This would indicate water getting into the combustion chamber as well.

From your symptoms, it sounds like you are leaking water into the oil passages 
through the head gasket.  This is not doing your engine any good and should 
not be considered 'normal'.  Is the car still under any warranty?  If not, 
replacing the head gasket makes for a nice weekend project.......:-)  Invite a 
few friends over too!

Dave

    re .34
    
    Does this car use the same engine as the Citroen BX (1905cc 8 valve) ?
    The oil filler is a strange beast, with 2 pipes attached to the cap,
    which is a push fit in a plastic part tucked in between branches of the
    manifold. The plastic part has some more pipes, and oil runs down
    one of these to get to the block/sump. The cap seems to have some kind
    of filter in it, which is rather clogged up with scum.
    
    Anyway, I have similar problems, although the oil usage is now getting
    a bit more than I like (34kmiles. Seems to use 0.5l per 1000 miles,
    maybe its worse now). The first time I put oil in it the oil sat in the
    filler for a long time before finding its way through the scum. I
    suspect the scum is restricting some breather or other, but I cant see
    where the top pipes lead to !
    
    It did have a water leak, which gradually got bad enough that it needed
    fixing (pin hole leak in a hose). This hasn't been fixed long enough to
    see if it is still losing water, but I was suspecting the head gasket
    before I found the leaking hose.
    
    Andrew

    >Lurching at 40mph
    
    Sounds like something sticking in the carb.  Depending on the type of
    carb it could be the needle, or the float, or the float inlet, or just
    a little bit of wear that's causing 'oscillation' between the jets.

    Re. 36
    
    On my petrol 405, i too had excessive oil thirst which according to 
    mechanics at peugoet/citroen was down to the oil valve guide stem
    seals,which needed replacing is a well known problem of the older 
    french 1.6/1.9 petrol engines, also they relegiously recommend replacing 
    the timing belt at every 48k miles
     
    Re. 34
    As previously suggested it sounds like the head gasket,
    the filler cap is a strange design isn't it! but the mesh filter which
    sits inside it ( which got incredibly carbonated and thick on mine)
    can be removed according to my Haynes manual, with no adverse effects
    only helping the breather pipes breath!!!!
    Re the uneven running, have you checked the petrol filter?? 
    Then try some REDEX additive,
    
    
    Cheers Mark
                                                                     

    
    Thanks for the replies. They've given me some ideas to work on.
    
>Is this 'scum' a light, milky colour?  ... see if there is a light 
>layer of oil on top of the water.

    Yes the scum is v.light milky brown. I forgot to mention that the car
    normally does very short journeys. However last weekend I went up to N.
    Wales and the long journey at speed seemed to clear it up a bit.
    
    No oil in the water though.
    
>Do you get any white steam out of the tailpipe when you start the engine up?  
    
    No.
    
>    Does this car use the same engine as the Citroen BX (1905cc 8 valve) ?
>    ...

    Yes that sounds like the same filler, although mine's the 1600 engine.
    It doesn't have a filter (probably got removed on one of the services),
    but I've had the same problem of so much scum that the oil won't go in.
    I've now taken the rubber ring off the lid - it's still a tight fit,
    but at least it's removable by hand.
    
    One of these days I'll replace the throwaway clips with proper jubilee
    clips so I can periodically remove the whole octopus assembly and purge
    the scum from pipes and chamber.
    
    Since there are no other gasket symptoms I'll check carefully for leaks
    in the water hoses.
    
>    Sounds like something sticking in the carb.  Depending on the type of
>    carb it could be the needle, or the float, or the float inlet, or just
>    a little bit of wear that's causing 'oscillation' between the jets.
    
    On the other hand it's always done it, so perhaps it's a feature.
    
>    On my petrol 405, i too had excessive oil thirst which according to 
>    mechanics at peugoet/citroen was down to the oil valve guide stem
>    seals,which needed replacing is a well known problem of the older 
>    french 1.6/1.9 petrol engines, also they relegiously recommend replacing 
>    the timing belt at every 48k miles
     
    If that's true I'll probably wait until it gets worse. Yes I got the
    timing belt changed at 48k. Very frustrating because the old one seemed
    to be good as new - I don't drive the car very hard.
    
>    Re the uneven running, have you checked the petrol filter?? 
>    Then try some REDEX additive,
    
    What would the REDEX do in this case?
    
    Dick

    If it's a white/brown scum and you only normally use the car for short
    journeys then I suggest you're looking at condensation in the sump.
    
    The cure is to periodically take it out and get it properly hot with a
    40 minute run somewhere.  This should ensure that the condensate is
    boiled off.  Then check the oil level and top up as necessary.  This
    periodic burst should help de-gunge the carb too.
    
    You should also change the oil in line with the time intervals rather
    than mileage -- it sounds as though this doesn't clock up miles very
    fast.  Look in the handbook and it'll probably say an oil change every
    10K miles or 6 months.

All I want to do is replace a 5w front "sidelight" bulb (405 estate H reg). 
According to the manual you do it from inside, but when I pull the plug from 
the back of the bulb holder the latter stays firmly rooted to the reflector.
I've tried pulling it with pliers as much as I dare.

Do I really need to take the lens off? This entails removing radiator grill 
etc!

Dick

    Dick,
    
    I don't know the pug but normally you have to push and twist the bulb
    holder. If it's part of the headlamp fitting there may be a retaining
    clip for that. You should not have to remove the lens, but sod's law
    says that something will break anyway ;-{
    
    Peter

     Hi,

          I have a 1989 405 Mi16, USA model, which uses a spring to hold
     the entire lamp ass'y in place by pulling the assembly in toward
     the engine area from the outside, thereby resting it against its
     home position. You can access the spring from behind the lamp
     assembly. The spring has a loop in it which is used for pulling the
     spring off its seat and that then allows the lamp to be separated
     from the grill. On my car, the lamp I am describing sits to the
     outside of the headlamp. If your car uses a different setup, then
     please disregard this info.

          Mike Taylor, Nashua, New Hampshire, USA

    .42 Peter. Yes, you were right, it's a case of twisting the holder, VERY
    hard. I had tried turning it before but the reflector is so flimsy I
    was afraid of distorting it. Needless to say I only satisfied myself it
    would turn after removing the lens, dropping a couple of clips into
    inaccessible recesses, breaking bits off that stupid bit of plastic
    trim under the lens, ... Par for the course.
    
    I just noticed the title of your reply. If you were referring to the
    screws holding the grill, what is the official name for that sort of
    shallow allen-key-like head?
    
    .43 Mike. What you were describing is the indicator lens but, come to
    think of it, that would also be the sidelight for a US model. Here the
    sidelight is a 5w bulb in the main cluster, but when the ignition is on
    it automatically brings a dim dipped headlight on also. Good luck with
    the 405. It's a good car, but that doesn't stop me getting very
    frustrated with it sometimes.
    
    Thanks, Dick

    Another 405 question. The Haynes manual gives details of drive-shaft
    removal, replacement etc. However it says that to replace the gaiters
    you should get a Peugeot service centre to do it. Is this right? The
    drive shafts are ok on mine, but one of the gaiters is slightly
    perished, so I'd like to replace it before it splits completely.
    
    Whether someone who can't change a light bulb should attempt this is
    another matter :-)
    
    Dick

        My cousin has a Peugeot 405 Diesel (non turbo) which cuts out 
        sometimes when changing from 1st to 2nd gear. 
        
        We have just spent two weeks towing caravans in Italy & 
        Austria, where going into first gear whilst on the move is 
        compulsory, once up to speed the change up to second seems to 
        either kill the engine instantly or somtimes it just looses 
        power slowly. Changing back to 1st usually kills it.
        
        We thought the problem was heat related but it also did it 
        when not towing as we pulled up to a T junction with virtually 
        a cold engine.
        
        This is a 13m old company car, he had the same problem last 
        year and Peugeot claimed they had fixed it.  It only seems to 
        happen in hot countries during or after towing, the problem is 
        it may not show again 'till this time next year. 
        
        I suspect fuel starvation but can't prove it.
        
        Has anyone seen or heard of this problem?  We need some 
        ammunition to take to the dealer.
        
        
        Guy