Conference terri::cars_uk

    Boy the new Celica is UGLY!
    
    Time for its Japanese designer to look for the Seppuku knife, for
    the treatment of the rear end is awful.  Too bad, the front 4/5ths
    of the car is fine.  I was planning to seriously consider one for
    my new wheels (a GT), but not with *that* skin.
    
    MrT

	Could'nt agree with you more. It's also been specifically designed for 
	the American market, who wanted it with more gizzmo's and a car suited
	to tooling around at 55 m.p.h.

	I bought the 200SX, and very pleased with I am to !

	Gordon ex-1988 Celica GT owner

    
    I couldn't agree with you more.
    
    They seem to have lost their touch, with the ugly mod's to the Celica,
    and the MR2 priced out of normal punter's reach.
    
    Just shows, that the Japanese don't always get it right.
    
    Mark.

    
    Quite agree about the Celica, but it may look better in the flesh
    (it couldn't look as bad as the photo, surely?).
    
    I haven't heard of any prices for the MR2 (apart from the Japanese
    prices, which are ludicrously cheap by comparison) - I understand
    they intend to keep a car in the 14K region for the UK market.
    Shame its developed a bit of middle aged spread, but the idea of
    220BHP does have a certain alure...
    
    Bi||.                           

    The Celica looks just as bad/worse in the flesh as in the photos.
    I saw one recently in Florida.
    
    Yeuuuuuuuuk !
    
    

    Yup, it's not better in the flesh.  Funny thing, but Toyota has
    a tradition of quirky looks, some good and some bad.  The previous
    Toyota had some charm, especially with the big tires on it.  
    
    In an interview with the Japanese designer of the car, he explained
    that the Toyota has been popular with women, so they researched
    what women like, and the Toyota emerged.  I dunno, but to me the
    new Toyota looks more masculine in stance.  Too bad, for Toyota
    has excellent mechanicals, and the Celica has always been an excellent
    alternative to the all-consuming all-ho-hum Honda Accord.
    
    Anybody seen the spy photos of the forthcoming MR2?  Now THAT one
    is the good news.  It's gonna be a sub $20K near-supercar, with
    much horsepower/torque in a mid-engine exotica package that is IMHO
    a very beautiful skin  - a shape that actually atones for the crime
    of the current MR2!
    
    MrT

    Saw a photo of an MR2 yesterday,looks good, seem to have got rid of its
    X19 type looks altogether.
    

    
    Having read three revies over xmas, i am not to impressed.  The
    styling could be by anyone, it certainly doesn't shout toyota at
    you.
    
    The prices, by the sound of it, will go from 14k to 20k+.
    
    The 14k model has, from what i rememember, a 1.6 engine ( or low
    tune 2.0), and is slow.
    
    The one in the middle has a highly tuned 2.0 engine, and has the same
    perfromance levels as the current MR2. 
    
    The top one is the turbo (sub 6 sec 0-60), but there is no agreement as
    yet to bring it over, and don't forget, we didn't get the supercharged
    model despite being the third best market after Japan and the U.S.
    
   
    
    Nigel

    New MR2 is on the cover of Road & Track (preeminent American car
    magazine) with a full test.
    
    This car is a poor man's Testarossa.
    
    I love it, it looks great, and if I could talk my wife into it 
    (never happen :^) I'd plunk down a deposit for one right now for
    the turbo variant, which has plenty or horsepower and torque.  It
    is somewhat bigger at the expense of the old MR2's race car close-to-
    the-road stance, but the extra room was needed.
    
    There's a lot of talk lately about the Japanese creating an "economy
    supercar" class.  This looks like the first shot, and it hit the
    mark squarely.
    
    I look at it this way: To get into a Miata, a fine little car, you
    end up paying $19K or so.  You could get into the nonturbo MR2 for
    about the same.  You could roll off the lot sitting on a leather
    interior in the turbo variant for, say, $23K.  At $23K you have
    a car with a great interior, high g capability, a 5.5-.57 0-62 KPH,
    lotsa low end torque, and bulletproof reliabilty backed by ubiquitous
    dealerships.  
    
    The turbo implementation is supposedly very good, almost no lag.
    
    I WANT MY MR2 NOW !!
    
    MrT

    a 5.5 to 5.7 0-62 kph time?  Isn't that Skoda territory?? :-)
    
    Dave

    re last 2
    
    The Turbo MR2 has 205bhp and the 0-60mph is around 5.7 seconds and
    top speed around 150mph.
    
    Grant

    re-1
    
    That is The Euro spec engine (95 octane unleaded).  The Japaneese 
    (Sp?) version runs on 100 octane unleaded and has 225bhp !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Grant

    re .53
    
    Is that confirmed that it will not arrive here ?
    
    Seems a bity crazy since we are the third most important market.
    
    Nigel

    re-1
    
    When I said euro spec engine that includes the UK (I think).
    
    Grant

    
    I read that there had been no final decision on whether Toyota would
    bring the Turbo MR2 here or not.
    
    The article read as if it thought it unlikely.
    
    Mark

    Yeah, I meant to say 0-100 KPH, heh heh.  Guess I caught overexcited.
    
    No turbo in the U.K.?  Funny, it seems like America is getting all
    these muscle cars yet we have such low speed limits (55 MPH on the
    highways except in the open country, where it's 65).  This is why
    Americans like torquey engines, we're alway putzing around between
    30-50, and seldom get much over 70, if ever.
                                                                         
    Great little car, I think it'll redefine things somewhat.  You've
    gotta have some space and luxury to sell cars to the type of person
    who buys a two seater, and the new MR2 will have it.  Btw, ex-F1
    racer Dan Gurney (who operates Toyota's IMSA GTP effort) was involved
    in the latter stages of development, especially suspension tuning.
    I guess the MR2 is less harsh now, but with the same cornering
    capabilities.  
    
    The Corvette is under pressure now, first the Nissan 300ZX, now
    this.  I don't remember so many great driver's cars as are coming
    out now.  And they're reliable!
    
    MrT

    
    Interesting comment about the suspension tuning. In the UK, the
    current MR2 is acknowledged as being extremely comfortable - maybe
    even a bit soft (though it only tells on the track).
    
    Bi||.                                              

   Autoc*ap, in an article on the MR2 Turbo says "its may come to the UK
   in 1991, if Toyota GBs request is granted".

re .60

You amaze me: every time I've ridden in an MR2 I've wound up with back pain.

If this is comfort, I think I'll stay with uncomfortable cars like UMM Alters

/. Ian .\

    re .62
    
    pardon ?
    
    After many 500+ mile trips ( just stopping for petrol) i would have to
    say the seats are not perfect, but a lot better than some.  I would
    even go so far as to say IMHO, that they are quite good. ( well at
    least in the drivers side anyway). 
    
    Nigel

Has it got back seats?

No I was folded into the front passenger seat

    
    From my short journey in the car as a passenger the seats struck
    me as unsuitable for their job. They don't have enough support and
    you find yourself sliding about, but if you're holding onto the
    steering wheel that's probably not such a problem.
    
    Mark

    
    OK, I guess I let myself in for this. I was really referring to
    the compliant ride, which was praised to the hilt by the motoring
    press. Personally I think its great for the road, but maybe a
    bit on the soft side for seriously quick cornering.
    
    As far as seats go, the driver's seat has a lot of adjustment
    not available on the passenger's: ie. lumbar support, side bolster
    adjustment and base cushion pitch. I find it comfortable for a
    classic Nuvolari (I can't spell that name!) driving position. However,
    the lateral support isn't a match for the car's cornering ability.
    
    Bi||.

    Re.63
    
    Well Nigel, seeing as there is probably 1 foot difference in our
    height, the MR2 might be OK for you, but it's a little short on
    headroom for me. Did you ever replace the "burnt" spare?

    
    It was ok for you when the roof was off  :-)
    
    Nigel
    
    The spare is now in brilliant pristine condition, which reminds
    me that i must change the other 4 sometime ;-)

    	Toyota Celica seats are the best I've come accross.
    
    	-John

    The next big move by Toyota is its forthcoming replacement of the
    Supra.  Hope they lighten it up, at 3700 lbs. it's a porker, but
    always a fine little GT car from the beginning, built like a tank
    and very pretty.
    
    MrT

>    	Toyota Celica seats are the best I've come accross.
  
	I'll second that. Combined with the fully adjustable steering column
	made the Celica the most comfortable car I've ever driven.

	Gordon

Its the standard GT.  I'm sure that the electric goodies would make a bit of
difference.  Unfortunately I didn't know her when she bought the car and 
couldn't offer my 2p of advice about what options to get.  It would be nice if
it had electric windows, too....

    I've had a go in the Celica (USA) and MR2, and found the seats OK, but
    nothing amazingly comfortable or uncomfortable.
    
    I do like the seats in the R5GTT though.
    
    Mark (8ft, 23 Stone, Short blond hair, Pimple on left buttock)

    
    23 stone? You'd never FIT in a R5GTT seat.
    
    Now a R5 Campus seat... :^)
    
    Mark

Re -2.

The reason that I put in my height and weight is that I've noticed something
interesting about men in Britain.  I haven't noticed all that many to be my
height - I've noticed a lot that are a couple inches shorter and a some that 
are a couple inches taller.

-Al 8-}    (that's the closest smiley face that I could make that had a tongue
	    sticking out!)

RE: 78 -  
>> I haven't noticed all that many to be my
>> height - I've noticed a lot that are a couple inches shorter and a some that 
>> are a couple inches taller.

Unless of course, you count Gordon Cameron!

Mark (Who is a good couple of feet taller than you)

    Scott,
    
    Ehmm, last Wednesday(?) every national newspaper I saw had a FULL
    COLOUR add for the new MR2. This included big n small papers. I was
    trying to persuade my mum to look at one, but the Toyata garage said of
    the three they have had in they've all been sold, and there is alreay a
    waiting list until August!
    
    
    Greg

    When I went in to look at them on Saturday the I was talking to
    the dealer about the possibility of the turbo version being released
    over here. He said that Toyota still hadn't decided NOT to do so
    but 'it could be some time' if they dodecide to. So it looks like
    I'll just have to have the red GT in July (2 month waiting).
    
    Tony

	I also saw the full page new MR2 adverts. I remember this because
	they seemed to be either annoying or humorous according to your
	point of view.

	There was a picture of the car with an engine underneath in the 
	middle. The text went on to extol the virtues of a mid engine
	configuration with talk of turning moments and things. All very 
	well except for the fact that if you mentally moved the engine
	up into the car on their picture it fitted slam bang in the 
	passenger compartment!. The real engine was behind this and
	clearly not in the middle, as indeed they never are in the 
	supposed 'mid engined' cars. Shot through the foot, I'd say.

	Still it seems to be a nice car which is more than one can say
	about the new Celica.

	-John

    
    Just returned from taking the MR2 in for a service in jolly old
    Switzerland (Not bad 70+ quid, including 20 for a wash !!!!!), 
    and in the showroom there was a Supra with TBAR like sunroof.
    
    A bit better in that there was no central bar.  The price list shows
    this as being an option in Switzerland.  It looked very nice.  in
    fact it looked so nice that i am having a rethink about the 200SX.
    (Shame that Porsche don't do one on the 944).
    
    Has anyone any more info on the TBARed Supra.  Have never seen one
    on the roads.  Is it sold anywhere else ?  The nearest French Toyota
    dealer is an hour away, and can only be called a back water.
    
    Nigel
    
    

	A bit far for you Nigel, but the local Totoyta dealer in Delft has
	a nice black TBAR Supra with dark blue/anthracite leather trim. Had
	a good look around it a couple of weeks ago.

	Mind you the price is over Fl 100,000. 1 Pound sterling = Fl 3.20 

	Gordon

    
    Re.84
    
    Not that they are marketed as such in Britain, but try looking through
    a German magazine and see how many 944 Targas you see.
    
    Must say it was very pleasant driving down the Rhine with the roof out
    the other weekend.

    I've just read the review of the new MR2 in May's CAR magazine.
    The issue has most of the cover dedicated to an MR2 spinning and
    the caption 'How Toyota spoilt the new MR2'. Inside, the article
    (by Gavin Green) is titled 'Handle with care'. The main conclusion
    is that the suspension is rubbish (apparently the old one had Lotus
    involvement) and makes it unpredictable to drive fast round bends.
    However, he does go on to say that the straight line performance
    is good (quoted 7.2 0-60 mph whereas Toyota claim 7.6) although
    this aggrevates the handling problems.
    
    I still want one, but I think I'll wait until I've had a long test
    drive first.
    
    Tony
    

re: .87

This weeks 'Autocar and Motor' has a similar article that is not so openly 
critical, but if you read between the lines you get a similar feeling 
that the handling is not quite right.

They drove a base model and commented that the low-geared steering wasn't 
quick enough to catch the tail when it stepped out. They didn't criticise the 
more powerfull car for this, but did comment on powerful brakes that locked 
on one side to send the car sideways briefly. Fun eh? I think all the Japanese 
and US versions described in previous previews have had ABS (crazy why that 
and a catalytic converter couldn't be on UK cars). 

I'm not sure what any of this means, they are after all brief test drives, 
driven much harder than most of us probably do on the road (OK, harder 
than me anyway!), in CAR's case at a test track. It's just worrying that 
the thing may bite if you push it too far - possibly not even by intent. 
I doubt any of it would take much to fix either, sort the handling, fit a 
smaller steering wheel, reduce the number of turns lock to lock, fit some extra
sound proofing. Have to do something to justify a price rise for 1991 :-)

Having read some of the recent stuff in the magazines, I do think also, that 
they are looking for something to comment on given that they admit the original
was so good (handles better than a 328 Ferrari I think Autocar said - really? 
Now they are carping that it *looks* like a 348 :-) ). If there had never been 
an original, I'm sure the press reaction would be totally diferent. In CAR's 
case, they have been having a spate of "why car xxxx is naff" articles recently,
and it doesn't always read like unbiased reporting. 

- Scott

    Delivery now up to 6 months.
    
    Tony

    
    And I wanted one for August!!!!!!!
    
    I was told 6-8 weeks but that the price was going up in June,if I
    order it in May will I get it in August for the May price??
    I went to see one last week and fell in love,Going back next week
    for a test drive(gives me time to tidy up the RS to get a trade-in
    quote) but reckon it`s the car for me.
                                            Dougie

    Yes, the only reason I didn't order one was that I hadn't had a
    test drive. Now my local dealer has sold the demonstrator (1000
    miles on the clock and for 500 above book price). 
    
    I was also wondering if I would pay todays price if I ordered now
    and too delivery in 6 months
    
    Tony
    

    Well I am now the proud owner of a
    position in the queue to get an MR2 in MARCH 1991!!!!.
    
    
    March I mean, when I was I lad etc... How much is a ticket to Japan:-)
    
    Tony

    
    Surely you jest!!!!!!!!!!
    
         Dougie_thinking_he_could_get_one_for_August 8*(

The MR2 will be reviewed along with the Celica on tomorrow night's edition 
of Top Gear on BBC2 at 8.30 (better check that time).

- Scott

    
    Just phoned around a few garages to check on delivery times,4-6 weeks
    in Ayr,6-8 weeks in Clydebank.What a relief.....
                                                  Dougie.
    
    Something to do with us being closer to Japan via the Trans-Arctic
    route..........8*) 8*)

    
    what was .98 about then ?
    
    Anyway, what's the nearest Toyota Garage to Solent Business Park ?
    
    I seem to have left my Toyota map over the Channel...
    
    Thanks Nigel
    
    p.s. had a test drive in the 2.0 GT on saturday. Dave Pellatt now has
    one on order.  official delivery is February, but a fleet place may
    have a cancellation in November.
    
    

	Has any one got a quote for any of the new MR2's recently ? If so,
	how much ?

	I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who at any time had a quote for
 	the new MR2, or any past quotes for the old style MR2.

	Regrads,
		Andy.

 
	Prices in pounds sterling:-


	MR2 - 14,001 

	MR2 GT - 15,441 , T BAR 16,651



	Gordon

	Thanks Gordon.

	I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone who got a quote for one.

	Regards,
		Andy.

Check out VTX for the latest deals......



Greg

I don't think there are any on VTX right now.

However, the last I recall seeing were something like -

	MR2 T-bar    6000 ish plus
	MR2 GT	     5700 ish

The old MR2 used to be around 4000 for the std model, 4700 for the T-bar
(12 months ago).

Those figures are for non-supplement holders. 

- Scott

	Thanks for your help, Scott.

	Regards,
		Andy.

    
    When the MR2 arrives (very nice car - but far to much space in it ) he's
    going to head over and sell the audi in France.  Going to buy a golf or
    something similar for the windsurfers/skis etc.
    
    Nigel                                

>>    Going to buy a golf or something similar for the windsurfers/skis
>>    etc.
    
    Could be a '90 Golf for sale if he's interested - I'd sell mine
    to buy a Miata if the price was right.
    
    AmS
    
    

    
    Tony, 
    	
    	I thought you were interested in buying a Jaguar or Daimler.
     
    What's this about a Miata.  Sounds Lambourginish to me.  Is this a
    natural reaction to having Jeeps all over the place ?
    
    Nigel  

    Hi
    
    I am currently interested in the Supra Injection, I would prefer the 
    Turbo but the price is more than I have to spend.  Does anybody have any
    good or bad points about the Injection model.
    
    I have also looked at the Celica GT 4 (new shape) which is the same price 
    as the Supra Turbo.  Problem with Celica is no leg room in the back for
    the kiddies (or other things) ;*)
    
    Both cars to me seem really nice.  So it's down to leg room or price.
    
    Any comments please.
    
    
    
    Bruce

    The garage I use is Hampshire Car Sales in Denmead, Portsmouth,
    telephone number (0705)264400.  There is a Toyota dealer in
    Southampton, (look in yellow pages), but the service I have received 
    from HCS is faultless.
    
    PS.  I have the new Celica.  It is absolutely brilliant!!
    
    Sandra

    Shop around.  Friend who ordered his (2.0 GT) a few weeks ago (a few
    notes back), will pick it up this week, which has come as a bit of a
    shock because he was looking forward to an extra month to get the dosh
    together !  :-)
    
    Nigel

    Ropley Toyota (nr Alresford) told me a couple of weeks ago that if I
    ordered one today (at the time of my visit) I could expect delivery in
    June 1991!!!
    
    

if you actually want to *buy* the MR2, then try the dealer in Coventry 
(Highfield Motors); they can deliver a car before the end of the year.

...art

    Anyone know of the delivery time on a new Celica???
    

    Toyota??

    
    RE .118 KURMA::DSTEVENSON
    
    "A new Celica" ????????????????
    
    You posing sod Stevenson!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    
    Does anyone know if you can get a ski-rack to fit the MR2 ???
    I`ve seen the model that they had for the mk1 but I think it 
    wasn`t advised to fit that to the T-bar so I assume it`s the 
    same with the new model.Or has anybody got any bright ideas????
                                                            

    Yes,
    
        Buy a decent car.
    
    			Geo.
    
    			     ;-)

    Re -1
    
    My only suggestion is that the both of must have been on some Hard
    drugs at the time of the conversation.
    
    						Geo.

    
    Where's the smiley?
    
    Mark

    I've been slagging Dougie long enough now that he does'nt take any
    notice any more...	
    
    						Geo.

    Well after a bit of a wait, it is time to say Hi Gang!
    
    I just took delivery of H324CHT, a Black MR2 GT T-Bar, and what a fine
    beast it is. It looks great, it drives very well (but will be run in
    for the next 1200 miles), fits like a glove, has more buttons and
    dials than the space shuttle.
    
    Ordered just before Xmas, i received an "anticipated" delivery date of
    20-Jan-1991. This came and went, and after checking with fleet it
    became mid-July. Luckily the Gods smiled on me, and it arrive at
    lunchtime today.
    
    I think i made the right choice,
    
    seeya around,
    
    Martin

    
    Anyone got the telephone number of ANY Toyota Garage in the UK ?
    
    Ta
    
    Nigel

    
    Reading Toyota (next to Dec Park), on 0734 871278 (General)
    					  0734 875959 (Service)
    
    Cheers,
    
    Bill