Conference terri::cars_uk

I'm hoping to buy a used GT Turbo very soon however, before splashing the cash,
I'd like to find out a little more about reliability... 

I'll be buying the newer (body coloured skirts) version, so it should be better
than the older one, but how is the stalling problem of a car with around 20k 
miles on the clock?

What does the anti-percolation fan do?

Are there any points to look out for when buying used?
Looked at an 1987 E regd one at the Peugoet dealer nr the university...
	a strange whining noise was coming from the rear before starting
	the plastic on the dash was peeling off
	paint had peeled off the driver side door mirror
	rain leaked thru the driver side door frame
	the engine made a lot of noise during a drive thru busy streets
	all of this made me wonder whether it really had covered 15k miles by
	one lady owner, however the wheels seemed to be in v. good condition
	they were also asking 6300 pounds for it which seems high,
	and it only had a three month warranty 
	"A years cover is only an extra 200 quid sir" 

I'm going to see some cars in some of the London dealers that specialize in
the GT Turbo...Radbourne Racing for one. They must be the best bet for an honest
appraisal of the car.

They don't have factory fit sunroofs because they're not type approved, so a
salesman at Weldale told me.

Replacing a turbo unit is around 500 quid all in (yipes).

"how reliable have yours been?"

...Art.

thanks for the info guys...

is the anit-percolation fan a unit that cools the carb & surrounding area then?

the engine noise was just loud engine type noise but normal conversation was
impossible at around 30 mph in third/fourth gear-hardly stressed conditions

TWO snapped clutch cables - a design fault ?

hope to look at a range of cars over the weekend & try and find a good deal...

the point of going to a dealer was for a warranty

If I bought privately, a car with the renault extended warranty, how could I
be sure if the car had been maintained in accordance with warranty conditions
i.e. I don't want to buy a car with an invalid warranty 'cuz the owner put a non
Renault replacement exhaust on it for example?


...Art.

    
    Yep, two clutch cables does sound a bit odd. In fact I've heard
    of a 3rd as well, so maybe it is a dodgy area, but (touch wood)
    I've had no problem since last time (about a year ago).
    
    As I said make sure the car has its service document. This a thin
    booklet which the dealer stamps and signs when he services the car
    . There is a section for each service (6000, 12000, 18000....).
    A car without this or an incomplete history is best avoided. This
    is the proof that the warranty is valid and the car has been serviced.
   Of course, any chip-swop or 'controlled-leak' type modification will
   also invalidate the warranty.
    
    The car you drove sounds excessively noisy to me. Really, the only
    extreme noise occurs over 70mph and is wind noise. The engine is
    very quiet compared to many other small cars (ignore what you hear
    about it being a rattly, unrefined engine, that's uninformed
    prejudice).
    
    Mark

Yup, that car left me feeling uneasy, it had too many things that weren't quite
right for it to be a genuine low milage example & they were charging far too
much for it. I'll try and remember to ask Renault dealers in London about the
clutch cable problems.

..Art.

Hi,

I've never had a problem with clutch cables so far.

I have had problems with the "coffee fan", and water fan. I've also had problems
with the brakes (not the brakes themselves which are excellent, but the brake
warning light), this is due to the garage.

At the moment, my car is running really well with 25,000 miles on the clock 
(and quarter past nine on the speedometer!!), still surprises me with it's
performance and handling.

That car should certainly not have been noisy, a recent What CAR? review praised
the 5GT Turbo for it's quiet smooth engine. Wind noise is the main problem.

If Renault issued a replacement with quieter more reliable fans, more stream-
lined body (quieter, more economical with higher top-end), and nicer interior.
Then I'd snap it up immediately, as a replacement. As the 5 Turbo is about to
hit the dust, when I have to get a new car, then I'm not sure either.

However the new Rover 220 GTi, reported in AutoCAR & Motor, with the 2litre 16V
engine on the Rover 820 looks nice. If it handles better, and is quieter and
more refined than the Astra 16V, then I'll be tempted.

I suggest you buy Mark's car when he gets rid of it, I think you'll find enough
people who have looked after their cars to be reasonable sure.

Cheers.

Mark.

    
    re .261
    
    Only trouble is I'm not selling my car until NEXT year!
    
    Mark :^)
    

Mmmm...
	Highlights another problem...


	Does the registration document actually prove ownership.
	i.e. I don't want to buy a car & find out that theres a loan
	outstanding on it.



...Art

    no, the registration document says who the _keeper_ is - that's got
    nothing to do with ownership.

    
    Any news Art?
    
    Mark

    
    
    Well I've just had my first problemette with the "Le Badger"..
    
    A failed Handbrake, guess where I found out..Yes; on a steep hill
    
    Took it to the garage, a chappie crawls underneath says a "%$*&^"
    pin has fallen out (funny after service 3 days ago), gonna take
    a couple of days to get another..
    
    I have to be a little careful were I leave the car now, no hills
    and in gear.
    
    
    Every thing else in brillant (touch wood)
    
    Regards
    
    Sean

didn't actually make it into London

however I'll definately be going in this weekend.

...Art.

Went to Radbourne Racing first, they had...
a Turbo 2 (mid-engined),
a new Raider - nice colour didn't like the body colour alloys tho',
an RR convertible (new) which they build to your spec, starting at 16 grand 
	for the standard car. Looked v.well made; wind down rear windows,
	no roll-over bar, hood fills up most of the boot.
a RR converted car @11k for an 'E'  reg. hideous body kit with flared wheel
	arches, aerofoil on the roof, ugly alloys 225 tyres - urgh

the only used 'standard' car was a white 'F' reg - too much for me !


also tried a place in Wandsworth - they had 8 cars from a 'C' reg to an 'F',
including an RR converted monster. It was a very Arfur Daley type outfit,
however the cars were relatively cheap for a dealer.

The Radbourne Racing car that they had had a CD autochanger in the boot, 
	together with a couple of HUGE speakers, two (2) extra car batteries!,
	2 Amplifiers, 2 pre-amps (one per channel!), so many speakers inside
	even some small ones in the sun visors! Bet that can entertain a bus
	queue or two.


...Art.

    Hi,
    
    just putting in this note to fill everyone in on my recent experiences
    with Wheelers of Newbury.
    
    I decided to try them because I wasn't terribly happy with Mattia, who
    said they had fixed a faulty brake warning light, but hadn't. So I let
    Wheelers have a crack at it.
    
    Took it to Newbury Monday morning, rang up early afternoon to be told
    that it was the brake fluid sender unit, and they didn't have a part in
    stock.
    
    I went to pick it up, only to find that the car had been stolen.
    Wheelers of Newbury leave their cars in the carpark, unlocked, with the
    keys in the ignition!!!
    
    I extended the hire of my car, and drove back to work to try and work
    out what I should do. I found out that Wheelers should pay the
    insurance, and that they should give me a courtesy car.
    
    I rang Wheelers Tuesday Morning, and found out that my car had been
    discovered and had bad (but not severe) front end damage.
    
    To add insult to injury, the "courtesy car" they have given me is a
    Renualt 5 Campus, which I have to keep for the three weeks or so, until
    the car is repaired. I detest snobbery, but think that I have been
    treated very roughly, especially when Wheeler's are so obviously in the
    wrong.
    
    I must stress that these are my own personal experiences, and that
    other people may well find that Wheeler's give perfectly acceptable
    Renault Service. I know for sure though, that once I get my car back
    (and over it's inevitable post-crash) teething problems. I'll never use
    Wheelers again.
    
    Mark_doing_a_mr_angry_impersonation.
    
    P.S. Oh yeah, I'm pretty annoyed at the joy riders too!!!

	I get very annoyed at Service people who insist on leaving
	your car sitting unattended, keys in ignition.

	A friends car disappeared, never to be seen again, in such
	circumstances. It's not really adequate to say that it's 
	insured - the inconvenience is never really paid for.

	I always make a point of taking the keys out and handing
	them in at the counter, "Just leave the keys in the car"
	they say. I then explain to them why I'm not going too
	and that they shouldn't either. It helps if there are other
	people in the reception at this time.

	It doesn't seem to work, the keys are always in the car
	when I go to pick it up. Even the BMW garage (Vincents)
	used to do this!.

	Why do car thieves ever bother to look elsewhere than a main
	dealer?.

	-John

    
    Interestingly my experience with David Mattias (in Aldershot)
    is that they don't leave cars on their forecourt with the keys in.
    
    Like John I always hand my keys in at the service desk and they
    put them on a little tag and hang them up. When I go back for the
    car I pay the bill (or not!) and they give me the keys.
    
    So far I've not had my car stolen!
    
    Mark

info on the following would be much appreciated...

Anyone running an old style car (i.e. non-colour coded C/D reg model)?

remember seeing a silver coloured one at dec park.... anyones???

how reliable are they at that age & mileage ?

any stalling problems due to fuel vaporisation?

cheers...

...Art.

    Hiya,
    
    I've just come back from a test drive in a Renault 5 GT Turbo. I dunno
    if it's my driving, or the car, or the fact I'm not used to it....but
    it seemed very 'jolty' when changing from first to second, with high
    revs and the turbo cutting in. Do you get used to this + hence smooth
    it out?
    
    I've also driven the Pug 205 GTI and did not have any problem like
    this!!
    
    But all in all it seemed a nice car, I was surprised at how quite it
    was. Even with the test drive I still can't decide between the 205 and the
    Renault, both have their good and bad points!!
        
    AAAGGHHH decisions decisions!!
    
    Greg

    
    I have no problem with the gearchange (about the best I've ever
    experience IMO), but really there are two things which weigh in
    favour of the Renault in my books.
    
    Firstly it's about 2k cheaper than the equivalent Peugeot 205 GTI,
    and, secondly, it's nowhere near as common as the Pug so it's easier
    to find when you leave it in a large car park! :^)
    
    Mark

I echo Mark's comments about the Renault.

Sounds like the jolt is what the magazines call "transmission shunt" (had it
explained to me a while ago), apparently, the Renault is better than the
Peugeot in this respect. Maybe you drove a bad example.

The 'quiteness' is one of the reasons I like my Renault.

The speed is another one!!! ;-)

Go for the Turbo!!

Mark

    	If the 205 is 2K more expensive *and* there are more of them
    	then there must surely be a reason.
    
    	The usual 'score' at Newbury site is -
    
    	4 205Gti's, 1 CJ, a couple of others.
    	Renault 5 Nil (well i've never noticed one)
    
    	-John 

  > If the 205 is 2K more expensive *and* there are more of them
  > then there must surely be a reason.

    Herd intinct? :^)
    
    The press rave about the 205 and come up with some pretty weak
    complaints about the Renault (although the recent giant tests generally
    gave the Renault the edge, certainly on the road).
    
    I feel that Peugeot have become almost as trendy as VW and that
    a lot of people never look further than the 205 GTI when buying
    a car like this, in much the same way as people USED to be about
    the Golf GTI.
    
    The Pug is also a better looking car (although a bit 'pretty') which
    probably sways a very large number of people.
    
    There is another point in the Renault's favour. That little 1397cc
    engine fools the taxman into thinking you're driving a econobox
    rather than the roadburner you've really got. Ask a 205 GTI owner
    how much the Inland Revenue charges them for the pleasure of driving
    a car owned by someone else.:^)
    
    Of course anyone who knows about cars already KNOWS that the Renault
    is the better car! :^)
    
    Mark
    

    Just the right words !  Well done Mark !

    
    Re .278
    
    Thanks Patrick.
    
    Praise indeed. If a man who has driven cars that most of us can
    only dream about rates it, what more is there to say?
    
    Mark

	I also agree with Mark, at least that is on account of the
	205 being a much better looking car. The R5T, when equipped
	with those spoiler thingies does have a definite 'boy racer'
	look about it.

	If however the enquirer likes the R5 lookswise then it's 
	probably better value for money.

	-John

    
    John,
    
    We obviously DON'T agree. :^)
    
    I only said it was 'better' not 'much better' looking. As you say
    beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I wouldn't say that there
    was a lot to choice betweeen the two looks wise.
    
    Having been on the receiving end, I don't think there's a lot more
    intimidating than the head on view of a Renault 5 GT Turbo in your
    mirror. When I see a Pug 205 I just shrug  my shoulders and carry
    on.
    
    Mark 

Hi,

I'd say beauty between the two was a pretty close run thing (inside and out).

The real reason there a no 5 Turbo's in Newbury is because of the awful garage
there (in my experience)!!

Mark (feeling depressed as he has still not got his 5 back again)

    
    Certainly when I was looking the Renault won hands down for interior
    as the Pug had ghastly painted metal on the doors! They have trimmed
    them now, but was it really worth 2k?
    
    Mark

    RE: .273 
    
>>>     I've just come back from a test drive in a Renault 5 GT Turbo. I dunno
>>> if it's my driving, or the car, or the fact I'm not used to it....but
>>> it seemed very 'jolty' when changing from first to second, with high
>>> revs and the turbo cutting in. Do you get used to this + hence smooth
>>> it out? 
    
    I've had the same problem test-driving the same car. IMHO & FWIW,
    I think this is due to turbo post-lag: what happens is that when
    you apply full throttle in 1st from a standstill, you get the turbo
    spinning like crazy, then, when you lift your foot to change gears,
    it's *STILL* going round at 60K odd and stuffing loads of fuel/air
    into the engine, so the engine does not decelerate as quickly as
    it would normally, hence the jolt when you let the clutch back in.
    
    Another problem I had with this car is also a potential cause for
    jerky gear changes: the accelerator pedal is *VERY* close to the
    brake, to the point where you can inadvertently press both at once
    when trying to brake hard. Note that this is also quite dangerous
    in emergency situations. 
    
    All in all , I liked the car much better than a 309 GTI, which I
    also test-drove, the Renault being much more docile and less
    undergeared than the Pug.
    
    /Ben

    Thanks for all the responses,
    
    I'm almost 100% sure I'm going for the Renault now, after driving
    around a lot on Sunday and looking at the Pugs and Renaults as they
    overtook me.
    
    BTW the one I test drove was one of these limited edition Raiders. IMHO
    I thought the blue colour was pretty awful, and the 'colour coded'
    wheels looked pretty bad. All in all not worth the extra cash. This car
    had only done 170 miles, so is the car 'de-tuned' at this stage? Hence
    can I look forward to even more impressive performance?
    
    Cheers,                                                
    
    Greg

    
    I don't know whether they are detuned prior to the first service
    as you are supposed to keep them below 3k up until then and as mine
    wasn't a lease car I was careful with it :^)
    
    Having said that the performance DOES improve with age (contary
    to what someone said about the engine losing power as it gets older).
    
    My engine and gearbox seem nicely settled in now and it is no problem
    to accelerate and change gear smoothly with a little care (which
    you really need in any car).
    
    I've never found the pedal position to be a problem, although I've
    heard complaints from people who have driven them. I guess you'll
    very easily get used to it even if you find it a problem initially.
    
    Now if you want a car with a dangerous pedal layout, have a look
    at the Citroen AX!
    
    Mark

>>   <<< Note 256.286 by CURRNT::SAXBY "Digital? Yeah I worked there ONCE!" >>>
>>    Now if you want a car with a dangerous pedal layout, have a look
>>    at the Citroen AX!
    
    Old news! they fixed that 18 months back!.
    
    Richard

    
    Old news, eh?
    
    They may have IMPROVED it, but I wouldn't call it fixed and neither
    would the person who's just bought one who I was talking to at the
    weekend.
    
    Mark

    I've got an AX on mini lease at the moment, and it's fine for me. In
    fact I didn't even notice any problem, and have enjoyed the little
    buggy, beats Fiascos and definately Metros hands down.

I noticed a marked increase in performance after the first service (1000 miles),
and a gradual improvement then as time wore on.

If you thought it felt fast at first, then definitely go for it.

Mark.

			>Is it just me?<
    
    Hi All,
    
    I took delivery of my 5 Turbo just before christmas so its run in
    nicely now - trouble is it doesn't seem to like first gear too much,
    a couple of times recently I've had to take off in 2nd in heavy
    traffic as it wouldn't go into 1st - has anyone else had similar
    problems?
    
    Also the fan seems to cut in at traffic lights quite often - in
    the other 5 Turbo I've driven this very rarely happens, and only
    then after a quick run.
    
    Any suggestions - yours hopingly,
    
    Spike.
    

    
    Re .291
    
    Doesn't sound right to me! I assume the fan you're refering to is
    the cooling fan and not the coffee (anti-perculation) fan. If you're
    not driving it flat out in 3rd all the time it sounds as if you
    are having problems.
    
    Also, I've had no problems with gear selection, so that doesn't
    sound right either.
    
    Take it back and get it put right.
    
    Mark

re.291

	are you sure that you're not trying to drive off in 
	THIRD instead of FIRST ?

	People do try it (mistakingly)


...Art

    re .293 & .292
    
    Positively not third - just spoke to Weldale in Reading & the guy
    there seems to think its a common problem - something to do with
    the synchromesh, he also reckons reverse can be a problem for the
    first couple of thousand miles.
    
    Anyway its going to visit the doctor on Friday.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    Try taking your foot of the clutch in neutral between the change from
    second to first. This trick works well with Ford and BL gearboxes.

    Mark

>>        Try taking your foot of the clutch in neutral between the change from
>>    second to first. This trick works well with Ford and BL gearboxes.

      Blip the throttle inbetween on the way down and hey-presto - double
    declutching. Now we can all be racing drivers !

    
    Re. 296
    
    PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE.
    
    Please don't start that discussion up again! :^)
    
    Mark

    I didn't really meaning double declutching (although the description
    I gave was just that), more a case of doing this only when stationary 
    and you can't get the car into first. Selecting second and then first 
    seem to align the gears. Declutching between second and first helps 
    even more.


    Hope that makes it more clear ...

   Mark

Racing drivers don't double declutch, they heel and toe.

whats a 'Dog clutch'   in racing terms???

are there any benefits to be gained from these types of clutches?
are they still available?


...Art.

    Is DDC used because of the lack of synchromesh, or because the
    gears are straight cut. I thought that even with synchromesh,
    straight cut gears will always "crash".

    I assume straight cut gears are used to reduce power loss in
    the drive train. I wouldn't have thought that synchromesh would
    affect this overly-much.

 Mark

    
    Come on Dave, real drivers double declutch as they heel and toe!
    (They then switch to left foot braking, applying the power with
    right foot to bring the back out, simultaneously dialing the local
    vehicle recovery service's number on the cordless...)
    
                                                     

    re .306
    
    ... real drivers ...
    
    give me names ! (besides you and me ...)

    
    Nah... you can press the extinguisher release with your nose (or
    pull it with your teeth...).
    
    BTW - Have you a plan for driving the 23 on the circuit yet, or
    training prior to racing it?
    
    Bi||.

	Well, by the sound of it a Pug, VW or even a Hyundai Pony
	with a misfire will be half a mile down the road before the
	R5GTT brigade get it into first!. I've heard of turbo lag
	but gear lag now that's new.

	-John



	I hope the chap with the genuine enquiry will not take this
	too seriously, it's just to wind up Saxby/Jeffrey.

    
    John,
    
    We'll be happy to give you a half mile start.
    
    Mark :^)
    

    Theres only one thing that winds me up, and that is people spelling my
    name wrong!!!
    
    JEFFERY
        **
    
    Mark.

    Hey hey hey,
    
    Check out the quotes, R5 GTT with metallic paint....
    
    
    
    ..a snip at 50 quid to supplement holders...maybe I'll forget the
    sunroof and snap this one up...deliver April 1st.
    
    Yes..I know that's April Fools Day.
    
    Greg

Yeah,

looks like a real bargain. I wish I could change my car now!

Mark.

    
    
    I had a little peek in my local Renault dealers showroom, and spied
    a 'Special' R4GTT, called a "Raider", It comes with RDS steroe,
    Built-in Alarm, Blue supergloss paint, blue tainted alloy wheels
    and blue speckled black cloth interior. It seems to be about the
    same price as the normal R5GTT's. Its a limited addition only a
    1000 are being made. Made me right annoyed as I wanted my one in
    Blue, which was then a discontinued colour. Never mind.
    
    
    Regards
    
    Le Badger 

    re: .317

    Ever thought of getting a job with the Grauniad ???

    I liked the "blue tainted alloy wheels" the best :-)

    Mark

    
    If you've seen them, you'll know why he said it!
    
    Mark :^)

    re .317
    
    On 18th Dec I put note .252 in which said someat about the Raider, so
    you've had over a month in which to get a quote etc..
    
    ;-)
    
    Greg
    
    
    

    RE: .317
    
    An R4GTT??? Interesting!!!  Sorry, couldn't resist it.

who's is the Electric blue one with blacked out rear lights in the car park
between DP1 & DP2 ???



...Art

    re -.1 - Which Car Park ?? - whats the legal position re blacked out
                                 lights?
    
    Also :- when are Renault going to see sense and produce a 16V,
            injection, turbo R5 (with ABS) ? Let's forget this
            pussy-footing about with non-blown 1700 engines!
    
    Graham Warnes
    CSC Warrington
    
    (Yes, I do run a R5 GT Turbo)

	Going to 16v on a car that's turbocharged isn't going to
	make much difference I'd have thought. Extra valves help
	N/A engines breath better but if it's being blown in anyway
	the effect will be negligible, apart from very high revs.

	Easier to turn up the boost!.

	-John

the ford cosworth has 4 valve per cylinder AND a turbo

...Art

    The Volvo 2.3 Turbo has 182bhp v The Italian only Volvo 2.0 Turbo
    16v has 200bhp so 16v + Turbo do make a difference.
    
    Also look at the SAAB 8v Turbo (145bhp) compared to the 16v Turbo
    (175bhp).
    
    Grant

    Re .324
    
    I'm not technically minded, but I would have thought the existance of
    several 16V Turbos on the market (plus a number of blown m/cycles with
    4V per cylinder) means there probably is a difference.
    
    Now what about injecting it ...?
    
    Graham Warnes

    Blacked out rear lights?
    These are OK as long as the reflector is not blacked out, if it is,
    there has to be another installed.
    Turbo technics used to supply a reflective orange strip along the
    bottom of the rear air dams, to get over this, looks good on a black
    4x4 sierra!
    

>    Now what about injecting it ...?
  

	If you mean fuel injection, I thought they all, or nearly all,
	were ?

	Mine is ! 16v, twin cam, fuel-injected, turbo and rear wash/wipe.

	Gordon

    re.323
    
    Why not got all out and have a Turbo 16v 1.7 Injection!!  OR better
    yet drop in the 2 Litre Turbo from the 21!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Grant

    The 21 Turbo has a longitudinal engine for the only reason that
    only the longitudinal gearbox (of the 25) can cope with that much
    torque.
    
    The new R19 will soon have a 16V engine. Adding the turbo should
    not be too difficult. But I think Renault will push towards the
    19 (rather than the 5). I may be wrong (I hope !). 

    Re .330
    
    Nice idea, RENAULT 5 GTI TURBO 1.7 ABS ....
    
    but engine capacity >1400 gives me palpitations tax-wise!
    
    Graham Warnes.

    
    What about 2 1.4 litre GTI Turbo engines?
    
    Mark P^)

    ....don't buy the argument that the 21 2.0L in a longitudinal engine
    because of the torque of the Turbo as my GTX has a longitudinal
    motor and it is ceertainly ***NOT*** overendowed with torque. Besides
    the 21 Turbo came out a long time after the normally aspirated
    variants.
    
    What I want to know is why do Renault insist on putting the meaty
    motors in those vehicles that pander to the boy-racers of this world?
    Why not put them in the load-carriers?

    re .334
    
    It's the official reason. The high end versions have the longitudinal
    gearbox. It's a shame, the transverse engine/gearbox versions have
    a definite advantage in terms of weight distribution and roadholding.
    Not mentioning the added cost of developing and maintaining 2 base 
    versions ... They had to do it ... as they dont have a transverse
    gearbox strong enough to cope with the high end engines.

Yeah,

I'm for a 1.7 16V Turbo engine! Anyone know whats going to go into the new
Renault 5.

RE: .334; - I'll give you a tow!

I believe that the new five will get the same 16v engine as the 19. I have also
heard that his car will be about the same size as the current car and about the
same weight. It will however become more rounded ( 205 and Fiesta ).

	Barrie.

    Anyone care to guess at performance figures if -.1 is correct?
    
    My own estimates :-
    
    0-60mph   = 6.8
    
    Top speed = 138 mph
    
    Graham Warnes

    
    Re .338
    
    Sounds about right.

    Not much better acceleration, but a better top end. Typical of multi
    valve engines.
    
    I'd rather have the turbo personally.
    
    Mark

    Howdy,
    
    Weldale in Reading have a Raider on display next to Tungsten Grey
    Turbo - personally I know which I'd prefer - blue wheels have never
    done much for me! However the Raider has an RDS radio which I wouldn't
    mind.
    
    How do they justify the pricing of the two models: 10,095 for the
    Raider and 10,085 for the metallic grey. I thought the basic price
    was around 9,500 with an extra couple of hundred for metallic paint.
    
    Also, why does it take 3 months for PHH to get hold of mine after
    saying there are none in the country, when there are two just waiting
    to be bought in Reading.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    Yeh, not a great 'blue' wheel man, myself.
    
    1 good point about the Raider is NO tacky GT Turbo sticker on the side
    of the car!!
    
    Has anyone tried to remove this sticker off their R5 GTT ;-)
    
    And thanks to the gentle persuasion of the R5 owners, I've gone and
    ordered one....roll on April!
    
    Greg
        

    
    You see our subtly approach works ! :^)
    
    I don't think the Raider is worth any extra money either, but regarding
    the price, don't forget that the Raider has an Alarm and an advanced
    Stereo compared to the 'normal' 5 GT.
    
    Mark

    re .341
    
    Have you ordered a Raider or 'normal' (if you can describe a turbo
    as normal) version - and how much were the quotes.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike. (slightly annoyed after paying 350 a year when there are
    two quotes under one hundred on VTX at the moment).

    Don't ask me about quotes I had so much fun......
    
    
    ...go on then I'll tell you.
    
    19 th December submitted 2 quotes, still have had NOTHING officially
    back. The 205 quote appeared on VTX, and today it has gone down 115
    pounds, for supp. holder.
    
    My R5 one was for Metallic paint and electric sunroof, PHH rejected it,
    NOONE knows why!!, Hertz quoted 288.
    
    So I was just about to order the 50 pounds metallic one, when another
    appeared, with electric sunroof for 88 pounds, so guess what I did :-)
    
    Both the above are 'normal(!)'
    
    
    Hope this is enough, Spike.
    
    
    Greg

    re .344
    
    You might think that getting the quotes is bad - but just wait until
    you try getting the car delivered!
    
    Mine was due for delivery on 2nd DEC from DTM in Swindon, so when
    I hadn't heard anything the week before it was due I gave them a
    call.
    
    Me: Please can I have my Turbo delivered to a different address
    than was on the order form.
    
    Them: We were about to call you - there has been a problem (Me thinks
    - oh god what have they done!). Your car is somewhere between France
    and Swindon but we're not quite sure where, so it will be a week
    late.
    
    Next week.
    Them: Your car is in the export centre in France waiting for a boat
    so it will be a few more days.
    
    Few more days pass - still heard nothing.
    
    Me: (Getting slightly annoyed) Can I have my car yet - pretty please?
    
    Them: Oh sorry about this - but when we told you it was still in
    France last week waiting for a boat we'd had a bit of a mix up -
    computer error actually. Yours hasn't been built yet - but dont
    worry its going into the factory on friday and it only takes a day.
    
    Me: Arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh thud!
                                             
    More days pass.
    
    Them: There has been a slight hitch - but don't worry (Me: now what
    have they done?) we've found you another car in Exeter and its being
    delivered to the sunroof fitting centre today - so it will be with
    you on friday.
    
    Friday.
    
    Phone rings - methinks something else has happened to it - but no.
    Them: Your car is on the way.
    
    Me: (Thud - falls off chair in amazement) Why - what happened!
    
    So the moral of this story is that car fleet are not the only
    incompetents around DTM are just as bad.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike - who didn't mind too much 'coz I had an Isuzu Piazza Turbo
    for the three weeks instead. 

    Don't be too hard on Car Fleet.  My recent experience of having my
    black R5 GT "borrowed" by two undesirables (potential wage snatch
    artistes?) resulted in a lot of calls from myself to Fleet for advice.
    I found them courteous and helpful at all times.  So lets be fair and
    give credit where it's due.
    
    Graham Warnes
    Warrington.

	Re. .345.

	Cynical it may be but I wonder if the real reason your car
	didn't turn up as expected was because they'd sold it to
	somebody prepared to pay more money than the lease people?.

	Just a thought

	-John

RE: .-1

This happened to someone at Digital who ordered one of the new Jags. - about
3 years ago.

He ordered through PHH, who said 'no way'. So, being senior he applied a
little pressure, and PHH in turn leaned on Jaguar ('we put lots of money
your way... each year etc...).

Jaguar acquiesed, and sent the thing to Julians - the nearest Jag dealer.
Boy! Oh! Boy! said Julians to themselves - we can make much money on this
windfall delivery - and they sold it in no time flat.

Along comes the man from Digital to collect it......

Lots of high level activity/flak flying around between PHH/Jaguar/Julians. 
Jaguar genuinely couldn't supply another one for 6 months, so they made
Julians lend their one demonstrator until the replacement arrived! Serves
'em right!

Steve

    Re -1, I think that story referred to the saga of the "Delivery"
    of Peter Reindorp's XJ6, if my memory serves me correctly.
    
    Re several back,........ I had  similar experience with DTM over
    my current Savanna. Stupid me has just ordered another one so looks
    like DTM hasn't improved over the last few years. Seems like a good
    job I let the Newbury Renault dealer loose on PHH to try to get
    themselves the business .......
    
    Re even more back,....... Car fleet does come in for a lot of
    un-necessary criticism, it also doesn't get to feel as much pain
    as it should over cock-ups so it is under no real pressure to change.

    Be careful to draw a very clear distinction between the people who
    work in Car Fleet - who are A1 - and the system under which they
    operate . They do not make up the rules.
    
    I have never had anything but good fast helpful response from them
    - notably from Pam Dormer.
    
    Now then, I must go and harangue someone about the 205 handbook I
    still have not received ....
    
    Mike Day
    

    
    A couple of points on the last few notes....
    
    I've just been speaking to a very helpful person in Car Fleet. The
    main problem seems to be in actually getting through to them in
    the first place.
        
    Back to the R5 Turbo, it's interesting to hear what other people
    are saying about the quotes. If anyone is considering a Raider I shall
    be sending off a quote today (I don't mind blue wheels!), so with a
    bit of luck it should be on the system soon. If it works out more
    expensive I'll probably go for tungsten metallic against one of the 
    current quotes.
    
    Can anyone help clear up some confusion I have over sunroofs? The 
    latest couple of quotes have electric sunroofs but an earlier note 
    says that you can't have sliding ones on the turbo. Also, a dealer 
    I visited at the weekend said that you could only have tilt and lift 
    out, and that it has to be fitted by the dealer themselves, not at 
    the factory. Can anyone clarify this for me? 
     
    Thanks....Alison
    

    re. 351
    
    I have an electric tilt/slide sunroof fitted which is fine. The
    dealer (DTM in Swindon) could not fit it - so they sent it down
    to surrey somewhere to be done. The glass actually slides inside,
    not on top of the roof like some you see around, and the only 
    visible trace is where the roof lining has been lowered to fit it in.
    Hardly noticable - unless you drive around looking upwards over
    your shoulder.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    WOW!!!!
    
    I was checking out the magazine rack and I saw a copy of  Febs Cars and
    Car conversions, saying something about the R5 GTT, so I picked it up
    and thumbed my way through, to be hit by a beautiful picture of a
    customised R5 GTT.
    
    They had added a vented bonnet, which apparently stops the stalling.
    They 'rounded' some of the trims and added a subtle vented curve out
    over the rear wheels. They car was dropped a few inches and sooped up
    to give top speed of 135mph. The wheels have been replaced with spoked
    ones, and the end result is fantastic. The cost was between 300 and
    1000 pounds from what I remember, depending on whether you had a mega
    engine adjustment or not. They also adjusted the suspension.
    
    This was all done by a company called Brodie Brittain Racing, on 0280
    702389. It's well worth having a look at the magazine.
    
    re .351, Alison- BEWARE the quotes seem to have a chance of stinging
    you for an electric sunroof. I put in for an electric tilt and slide
    sunroof and a metallic tungsten R5, quote number 2962, which has
    appeared TODAY for 288 pounds, but I have chosen another, quote number
    3135, for a black Renault with electric sunroof, for 88 pounds! Now
    surely metallic paint cannot cost me 200 pounds per year?
    
    Greg

have you a copy of said magazine???

...Art

    ..too tight fisted to spen 1:50 for 2 pages!!!!
    
    ;-)
    
    
    Greg

    
    Re: R5GTT in the magazine. I think I read the article did it go on
    about stage 1 & 2 conversions to the engine, giving it a BHP output of 
    155 (?) and 185
    
    Regards
    
    Sean

    > The car was fitted with a set of 3 piece PLS wheels sized at 7 x 15" 
    > and nran on Pirelli 195/70 P5s.

    This must be wrong. The 5 normally runs on 195/55 13s so putting
    70 profile tyres on 15 inch wheels  would leave the car riding
    like a Range Rover!
    
    Mark

    Yep, you're right - 'twas a typo, should have read 195/50 P5s.
    Glad to see someone pays attention to detail!
    
    Graham Warnes

    Dimma also do a body kit for the Pug 205 - looks a bit OTT in terms of
    styling to me.
    
    
    John 

    These 15" wheels pose a problem. To get the speedometer reading
    right normally needs 195/45 tyres to keep the same circonference.
    195/50 tyres pull a higher ratio resulting in 
    
      - better grip (a real plus)
      - higher acceleration times because of the above
    
    + and - = no real advantage, this was the conclusion of several
    tests I have read. 15" wheels could allow bigger brakes, but braking
    is not really a problem with the 5GTT.
    
    Better appearance ?

    
    I've yet to see a body kit on a 5GT Turbo which makes it look better
    than the colour coded kit Renault put on them as standard.
    
    The only modified 5GT Turbo that looked better than the standard
    one was the Radbourne Racing convertible, which is a very nice little
    car.
    
    Mark 

the radbourne racing body kit is hideous...

looks like a smaller version of an astra gte thats been pumped full of air & 
bloated out

...art

    
    I don't know about that. All they'd done on the convertible I saw
    was cut the roof off and build a boot lid on!
    
    Mark 

RADBOURNE RACING
prices for GT Turbo components

competition clutch	       		195.00
competition engine mountings		147.00
competition brake hoses (4)    		 34.00
K&N air filter		       		 28.95
fan belt tensioner		 	  5.00
DEVIL rear silencer road or race	 97.00
DEVIL centre section			 69.00
DEVIL coupe type side outlet 		149.00 (not road legal)
DEVIL aluminium front strut brace	120.00
KONI front shock (adjustable)		 91.00 (each)
KONI rear    "       "			 52.50   "
De CARBON competition shock front	 45.00   "
De CARBON competition shock rear	 60.50   "
lowered front springs set of two	 66.00
competition brake pads front	 	 34.80
competition brake pads rear	 	 52.50
radbourne fagix split rim aluminium 
 wheels 6"x13"				198.00 (each)
leather MOMO steering wheel		 99.00
DEVIL F.I.A. approved 6 point steel
 roll cage				275.00
Radbourne styling kit incorporating
 4 new wings, flared wheel arches
 front & rear spoilers & front grille 1,150.00
vented bonnet				180.00
double hatch spoiler			185.00
brake cooling ducts (fit in place of
 foglights) per pair			 77.80

PERFORMANCE CONVERSIONS...

improvement to turbocharger & engine 
 management system (20% increase)	135.00 (inc. fitting)
optional DEVIL free flow exhaust 	241.00 (road or rally)
cylinder head conversion		575.00
30% power increase (all of above)	950.00

(mods for 9,11,21,25 & GTA available too)

...Art.

    
    Re Exhaust systems.
    
    One of the things that I prefer about the Renault over the Pug (other
    than that it's a much better car! :^)) is that it is much more refined.
    The Pug note is fine if you want to play Ayrton Senna everywhere
    and need the boy racer noise to go with it, but on a long journey
    or even just going to work the Renault's quietness is a real bonus.
    
    Anyway the Pug sounds like a real wimp compared with a V6 with twin
    exhausts! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    The side exit system sounds remarkably like the system fitted to
    Elf challenge cars. I wouldn't imagine it's legal for the road though.
    
    It really depends if you want to be super-conspicuous or not.
    Personally I don't want every copper being attracted to me and the
    speed I'm doing.
    
    I do like the sound of 0-60 in under 6 seconds though! Maybe I'll
    have some mods done to my car next year and forget about a new car
    for a year or so.
    
    Mark

    Art,
    
    Did BBR send you any pretty pic' etc of Renaults with their kits on?
    
    Greg

they sent a postcard of a racing cosworth & a few other leaflets
Radbourne racing sent a piccy of their kitted car, feel free to pop
'round if you want a look...

DEC PARK
REO F8/E3
(nr security entrance of building)

...Art

    re .366
    
    Graham,
    
    Improving the exhaust noise of a turbo engine is very difficult.
    Do you remember the F1 engines of the turbo era ? Increasing the
    power output is a similar problem : you won't gain anything. Any
    sort of pipe will do. Balancing the turbocharger is one very positive
    move to increase the power (and the noise a little bit). In addition
    there are a few engine preparation kits that allow up to 150bhp
    with no loss in reliability.

>>  sort of pipe will do. Balancing the turbocharger is one very positive
>>    move to increase the power (and the noise a little bit). In addition
   

How do you balance the turbo charger then?

...art.

    Heh Art, I was just typing in the same question!!
    
    To add to it, can you get it balanced as part of your leasing cost's
    service :-)
    
    Greg

    Well, I dont know if they really take the turbocharger to pieces
    (I think they do) or if they replace the whole turbo system with
    a balanced one. But they do balance the rotor (turbine + compressor)
    like any slot racing motor. At 100,000rpm the forces/vibrations
    are not negligible. All racing 5GTT have a balanced turbo. The result
    is better acceleration (of the rotor) reducing turbo lag. And slightly
    better noise.
    
    Removing the silencer and the rear exhaust pipe (like in the racing
    versions) will save weight and make more noise (not music :-). Dont 
    count on performance improvements.
    
    Patrick

isn't there something called "turbulon" or something (???) that can improve
the turbo units performance/reliability ?

...Art.

Patrick...

how & where did you get the turbo balanced?
was it at a renault dealer?

is turbulon an oil additive?

...art

Mark do you know when the turbo cup season starts this year?
dates, venues???


...art

    
    Sorry Art,
    
    I can't help you. My national racing calendar is at home. I think
    there's a Renault race at Thruxton on Easter Monday, but other than
    that I don't know.
    
    If I remember I'll tell someone and get them to put it in.
    
    Mark

    I remember that Garrett does it (as long as you have a Garrett workshop
    nearby). There are also a number of places down here where you can
    have your 5GTT prepared for Group N or A racing or any sort of non
    racing improvement. It's very easy to adjust the valve for a slightly
    higher boost you know .... My friends at P3 Auto in Cannes worked
    on 5GTT as they worked on 5 Turbo 1&2 (besides working on italian
    V12's and 935 engines ...)

    
    
    First round of the ELF Turbo Cup is Thruxton, 25th March.
    The next seems to be Donnington 14-16th April (doesn't say which day).
    

        
         
        Just been reading Autocar & Motor which talks about "superminis
     for the 90's". It says that the new Renault 5 will be launched
     in Paris in the 3rd week of May.
        More interesting though, it says that the Turbo replacement
     will feature a 16-valve 1.5 litre turbo with close to 150 bhp.
     This seems to go against all previous predictions for the  
     Turbo replacement which suggested a 16-valve 1.7 litre engine 
     but I hope it is true...........
    
     Duncan. (I don't want to lose his turbo)  

    The french press talks about the "Clio" as the 5 replacement.
    Production should start in the 1st half of the year (this semestre).
    I was not aware of this imminent change ..
    
    Back to the 1721cc engine. The Matra M25 demo car uses precisely
    a turbo version of the 16 valve engine producing ...  200bhp. There
    are talks about productizing this M25 in 1991.
    
    I hope they make a hot Clio GTT.

Yeah,

I hope they don't lose the turbo.

Incidentally, I got my car back, and aside from niggling problems, and a slight
ragged engine tone above ~5,000 RPM it seems OK.

Really enjoying the boost!

Mark.

    Engine specs for the  "Clio" are 1.0 (50bhp); 1.2 (65); 1.4 energy
    (85); 1.7 (92); 1.8 16v (140); 1.9 diesel (85).
    
    The 16v wil be available December 90. The car isn't seen as a 5
    replacement, but is aimed between the 5 and 19. So, R5 (and 5GTT)
    production will continue.
    
    Ken

    Changing the topic a little, here's a general gripe about something
    thats happened to my Renault 5 GT Turbo ("R5 GTT is starting to seem so
    impersonal). Following some repair work to the plastic surround for the
    steering column and ignition barrel area (car had been stolen), the
    whole dashboard area was a mass of rattles.  I've traced and fixed all
    but one of them.  This is a rattle coming from the passenger glove
    compartment door (shouldn't have been touched by repairers (?)) - does
    anyone else out there have this problem? It's really bugging me, as
    before it was beautifully quiet in the interior.  The only extra noise
    I want is a beefier exhaust note (maybe that will drowned out the
    rattle .... ?)
    
    Graham Warnes
    CSC Warrington
    

    I just spoke to the garage who are 'doing' my Renault for me, and the
    chap told me a few interesting points.
    
    1. The sliding sunroof which slides inside the roof, drastically
    reduces headroom. He asked my height, I said about 5 9/10 and he said
    he would not recommend the sliding inside the roof one!
    
    2. He couldn't get hold of a black car, 'cos he said that they have now
    stopped making black and red ones and now only do them in white and
    tungsten!!
    
    Greg

    
    
    Re: -1
    
    	I having a sliding electric sunroof, I am 6' 1'' tall, I only have
    a problem, if I have my seat totally upright and go over a bumpy
    pothole road. 
    
     If you have any doubts I will have my R5 at Decpark next Tues - Thurs,
    If you require to check it out.
    
    
    regards
    
    Sean

    Regarding the new R5...
    
    As far as I am aware (info from local Renault dealer) the plans are
    for:
    
    1. A 1.7 fuel injected version
    2. A 1.5 Turbcharged version
    
    in addition to the standard models - I can't be certain about it, but
    it would seem to agree with the info in here a few notes ago... Any 
    comments anyone?
    
    AND ... as I am currently thinking of ordering a GTT any reckon I
    should wait for the new shape??? 
    
    Yours, DESPARATE for something fast ... NOW!
    
    Mark.
    

    re-1
    
    There is already a 1.7i R5 the 90bhp GTX.  unless what you mean
    is Renult offering two GT fives.
    
    maybe a 1.7 Injection 16v and a 1.5 GT Turbo.
    
    Grant

 The current issue of CAR  magazine contains pictures of the new five inside and
out, it looks prety bland to me ( longer and more rounded ). They state that
the top of the range version is going to be have 16v engine producing 140 bhp
( i dont think they mention capacity ). They also state that there will be no
turbo version.

  The car is due to be launched in may, with the lesser models in the current
five range selling along side it for a while.

 This is a great shame I much prefer the shape of the current car and love that
turbo boost...

 Yours_in_deep_mourning Barrie.

    I have a Renault 5 Turbo on order, with, I hoped an electric sunroof.
    However, yesterday, I received a phone call from Pam Dormer. She had
    just been in an all day meeting with PHH. 
    
    They are now stating that it is unsafe to have any form of sunroof in
    the Renault, as the roof is part of it's strength!! Fitting a sunroof,
    apparently invalidates the warranty!
    
    I've now cancelled the sunroof, pending Pam coming back to me after
    talking to Hertz!
    
    This is quite interesting as what position does it leave all other
    drivers with sunroofs???
    
    Greg

    Gulp!
    
    have you any more details?
    
    is Pam going to send as message to all R5GTt owners warning them?
    
    Do we all get replacement cars?
      
    mb

Well, I wish I could retrospectively "unfit" my Sunroof.

It's horrible, makes the car cold in winter, and occasionally leaks!

So New roofs all round then!

Mark.

	Perhaps the sunroof thing is similar to that of the 200SX ?

	With the 200SX, if the IMPORTER has specified a sunroof then
	the car gets a different roof section entirely. This is because
	of the strength lost with the sunroof in place of the normal
	metal section. This is entirely safe as it's designed to do the
	job. 

	The problem is of course, if the importer doesn't specify a sunroof
	as standard there is no way you can have one fitted, safely.

	They don't specify a sunroof as standard on the 200SX here in Holland
	that's  I found out :-(

	Gordon ( who will probably sweat it out again this summer ).	

the cars were not homologated with sunroofs

therefore they had to be an aftermarket fit

i'm surprised that Renault UK don't approve of the sunroofs since they tend to
be fitted by (or through) Renault UK dealers.

i've got a tilt/lift-out one on my car...

decided to lift it out on Saturday (hot day) didn't get to end of the road 
before I had to re-fit it... the amount of noise produced at speeds under 20mph
was unbearable, sounded like the car would self-destruct

...maybe its lift-out for cleaning purposes only


...art

    GUESS WHAT??
    
    They are now ermming and ahhing and have said well maybe me were
    wrong!! I'm off for a weeks skiing, and then the cars arrives so it
    will be VERY interesting to see if it has a sunroof or not!
    
    Pam has assured me it will be sorted!!! 
    
    Greg

re. -1

Well, how about putting me/us out of my/our suspense ? I'm about to get
a quote on a GT Turbo from car fleet, and I still don't know whether or
not to ask for a sunroof - or whether I'll be allowed one at all !

Cheers,

    Derek.

	If your node WARNUT indicates your based in Warrington I would have
	thought a sunroof is execess to requirements :-)

	Gordon (Ex-BNFL Warrinton the WET !)

    
    
    Does anyone know what sort of range the oil pressure gauge should be in
    during say motorway driving (85ish)
    
    Ta
    Sean

RE: .403

My oil pressure reads about 4-6 on the gauge.

What worrys me is that I don't think Wheelers have changed the oil at all!
since they smashed my car up (see previous replies).

The reason I think this, is that if I use the boost, when the car is cool
(between 30 seconds and 3 minutes after starting), then the turbo makes a
nasty noise (and I take my foot off quickly!!). After this time it seems OK.

My two theories are:

	- Wheelers didn't change the oil (or put non synthetic in). The oil
is black, and the car is generally noisy when cold.

	- The hard driving done by the joy riders (rallying around a field)
has damaged the engine in someway, and possibly blocked one of the oil ways
to the turbocharger.

Either way, I think my turbocharger is damaged, and that a replacement is
called for. At the moment it sort of works although performance isn't up to
par, and economy is dreadful (3-4mpg less than usual).

What should I do?

Should I be worried about the turbo?

Mark.

Mark,
  It might be worth giving the technical department at Renault U.K. a call and
asking their advice.

	0793 513888.

Re -2, My preasure guage reads around 5 or 6 most of the time. There was a time
though that it would dive to zero when the turbo was on full boost. ( That
turned out to be yet another electrical fault ).

	Barrie.

    
    Re: -1, -2
    
    	Thats what I thought my oil pressure should be !! I drove up the
    M25/M4 yesterday and my oil pressure was on about one. Car felt good
    though, I hope its the electrics
    
    Better give Renault a ring to check.
    
    
    Ta
    Sean

.404

>What should I do?

Is it time for the "All strange noises are cured by increasing the volume
on the stereo" approach yet?

-John

    What a coincidence ...
    
    i have just noticed, today, that at speed my oil pressure is down
    at (or even BELOW) zero. It seems to depend on engine revs or perhaps
    turbo boost because backing off the throttle slightly brings the
    pressure up to about halfway, and at tickover around town it is
    pretty much normal.
    
    This has only just started, perhaps its the weather?
    
    could it be some epidemic!
    
    mb

    Yeh well it arrived WITH a sunroof, a sit on top Pug type. However it
    is surprisingly quite, even on the motorway!
    
    It seems as well that Renault have quietened down the fan, and Mark
    (who had a go) thinks the steering is lighter.
    
    All in all I am CHUFFED with the car, after the initial running in
    period of 500 miles, it certainly shifts. Overtaking is a dream.
    Apparently it reaches 'optimum' performance after 1500 miles, so here's
    waiting!!
    
    Greg

Unfortunately, my car isn't surprisingly quite! due to a badly bonded
windscreen. The steering was lighter on the new car, so I hope my lease runs
out before they phase out the R5GTT.

Mark.

Hi all,
	Mine was delivered on the 20th in all it's white glory. To date I have
covered 410 miles, so it wont be long before first sevice time. The car came
with an electric slide sunroof (pug style), central locking, alarm/central 
locking and a removable Pioneer sterio.
	As for handling/performance it's brilliant. The steering is crisp and
light. The shocks are slightly hard at slow speeds, but this becomes less
noticable as speed increases. I find the rear end wants to step out of line with
very little encouragement, at least it seems that way. The tyres are Michelin,
could this be the reason why ? The car is quiet and comfortable. My only gripe
is the mpg. The first tankful returned 26 mpg, which I thought was ridiculous.
Is this normal or is there something wrong ???
	Overall, a very nice car.


	Kevin.

    Kevin,
    
    I got 26 mpg on my first tankful, but I haven't really worried about it
    recently so I don't know if it improved after the first service!
    
    I'll check it out and see what it is now after 1500 miles!
    
    Greg

Thanks Greg,
	My only worry about the mpg is that I'm away to Ireland the second week
in May and as some people know, the price of motion lotion in the Emerald Isle
is inhuman. I intend to travel around quite a bit so I would hope for at least
30/35 mpg after the first service... keep me posted...

	Kevin..

RE: last few.

Glad to see you liked it!

The R5GTT's economy is very sensitive to how you drive it! You'll get a huge
boost in economy by driving it just a little bit slower. Unfortunately, it is
a really enjoyable car to drive fast!

If you've read the previous notes, then you might have read my unleaded
investigations. The rule is that Renault say it doesn't, but the Engine Mgt
system will allow the engine to run without modification. The risk is that
permanent running on unleaded may damage the engine (presumably why Renault
changed their mind). The strange thing is that the car runs better and more
economically (about +3mpg) on unleaded than on leaded. I've tried about 10 or
so tanks of unleaded every now and again.

I'm waiting to get my car repaired properly, as there is still loads wrong with
it from the crash.

Mark.

Re: .414

I thought we had passed the date when all new cars had by law to be able to
be converted to unleaded.

jb

    Unleaded does *not* give out as good mileage as leaded (not in my
    experiance - anyway).
    
    But it is cheaper.
    
    The benefit is only reflected in how much driving you do.
    
    Lewis.

    Sorry guys but I may have missed something here.
    
    Mark, 
    
    Are you saying you can use unleaded without scr*wing the engine???
    
    I think a letter to Renault UK may be in order, to get a definitive
    answer.
    
    re - a few. Just had a bit of hurried trip on Saturday to make a hockey
    match. With 3 others in the car, and fairly heavy right foot my Renault
    made the fabulous mpg of 23.
    
    I think I'll just give up calculating it and enjoy driving it. I mean
    you don't really buy a turbo if fuel consumption is your greatest
    worry, do you. :^)
    
    Kevin, Have you actually tried removing your stereo. A mate told me
    that you can't!! You get it 3/4 out and then it touches the ash tray
    and that's it, game over!
    
    Greg

    Re: Moving Stereo. 
    
    I've got one of the detachable radio/stereos and it does come out, but
    it's a close run thing!  There is zilch clearance for it against the
    ashtray, so long term I reckon something is going to look quite badly
    scuffed.
    
    Has anyone given any thought to the expected lifespan of the contacts
    on the backplane for this type of radio? They'll probably last the 
    duration of a lease, but this is a bit of a selfish view bearing in
    mind that someone somewhere will *OWN* this car after me!
    
    Graham Warnes
    CSC Warrington (where 16V GTE Astras equal R5GTTs, but only
                    numerically !)
    

    RE: -1
    
    Graham, 
    
    Are you serious that there are an equal number of R5GTT's as there are
    GTE's??? I count QUITE a few more GTE's (and they're 'orrible too!)
    
    One more in the car park soon though ... just need to win that manager
    of mine over...:-(
    
    Also: Re: Moving Stereo - It can be VERY difficult in my experience.
    
    Also: Re: MPG - Can you really get a noticable difference in MPG with
    careful driving??? Greg's 26-ish seemed about right to me. What kind of
    levels can I expect then (Promise I drive it slow...)?
    
    Mark.

    Mark, 
    
        Yes I was serious, here at Spencer House the current score is
    Ashtrays 2 R5GTT's 2.  Dunno about other Warrington sites - sounds 
    like the disease is further advanced than I thought!
    
    Graham Warnes
    CSC Warrington

    "Mine's arrived - YO !"
     
    
    Translation : Silver Turbo arrived today, lease car, just got back
    from a quick test drive around Fareham and up'n'down M27.  Initial
    impressions are 
    
    			1. Feels well quick  (keeping < 3000rpm)
                        2. No rattles
                        3. Smoothe ride
                        4. Very little lag
    
    Brings a smile to the face !   More details later.
    
    Rich.

    Has any one noticed a sudden increase in the number of 5 Turbo's on the
    road??
    
    When I first started getting interested in them, around December, I
    think there was 2 I saw in Leeds, now I'm constantly coming across new
    shiny G reg one's [like mine - but no-one in Leeds has the PHH/Pug
    sunroof ;^)].
    
    Has this got anything to do with 
    
    a) I've got one so I'm noticing more of them?
    b) What Car giving it Car of the Year for it's class?
    c) People generally just realising all the MK1 problems have been
    sorted?
    
    
    Greg 

re.
>     <<< Note 256.421 by HEAD::BOPS_RICH "XX+C=X stop that butterfly !" >>>
>                             -< Joined the club. >-

>    "Mine's arrived - YO !"

Rich,

    Is this a lease car ?? If so, how long did it take from order to
delivery ? I ask because I ordered mine on 4th May and I don't know when
to start worrying :-)

Cheers,

    Derek.

    
    
    I am thinking about ordering one of these little beasties as my next 
    lease car, can any of you good people tell me what, if any, difference 
    there is between the standard GT turbo and the raider. Other than the
    blue paintwork of course.
    
    Cheers
    	Clare

    Clare,
    
    I'm, pretty sure it's already in here, but here it is again,
    
    Raider has and RDS stero with 4 speakers, and
    blue colour coded wheels,
    no 'GT Turbo' sticker on the side!!
    a white RAIDER sticker on the back window,
    an alarm fitted as standard.
    
    An that's about it....the Raider is meant to be limited edition

>>       <<< Note 256.422 by BAHTAT::HILTON "Two in the box ready to go" >>>
>>                             -< Puzzled in Leeds >-
>>    Has this got anything to do with 
    
>>    a) I've got one so I'm noticing more of them?
    
    This is common phenomenon (sp!wish I hadn't decided to use this word).
    I find this whenever I decide I'm interested in any particular car. You
    then see them everywhere and start thinking "too common, try something
    else". Only the something else is just as common.
    
    Richard (looking for something unique)

    re .423
    
    ordered mine on 29/march , from an existing quote on vtx. I could
    have picked it up 3 weeks ago, but I was just about to go on hols
    abroard so i delayed it. Therefore delivery time could have been
    5 weeks !
    
    nb - it has no extras, and i accepted an alternative colour (my
    last 4 cars have been red), and it had to come down from Wolverhampton.
    
    Rich.

I've noticed a few more around, still not as many as there are Pugs though.

I got my car back yesterday cured of all the problems that I told Wheelers
about (see replies ago about Wheelers trashing my car for me).

Looks like Wheelers have finally woken up, and are being nice to me!

They put a new, more powerful 4-speaker stereo (just got to find two old 
speakers to put in the back now!)

They valeted it, and replaced the exhaust manifold gasket, which means that
the car is completely smooth up to 6,500 rpm, the turbo kick is back again
(whoosh!!), and the coffee fan doesn't need so much effort.

Unfortunately, I have had to borrow a Sierra 2.0i GLS for a camping weekend
in Yorkshire.

Mark.

    Running report :
    ================
    
    I have now covered 800 miles
    
    Likes :  Performance is good. Still running it in, not exceeding
    3500rpm very often. Handling exellent - just like a go-kart ! Economy
    reasonable - 37mpg and 33mpg so far. Good driving position. Best
    gearbox used ever. Quieter than expected.
    
    Dislikes :  Ergonomics of some of the switches, those horrible piano
    ones. Having to wait before stopping the engine - much more of a
    drag than I anticipated. Not having a specific Turbo owners manual.
    Horrible Poineer - prone to vibration, doesnt like my maxell tapes.
    Rear window keeps popping open.
    
    Questions :
    
    1.  There seems to be at least 2, maybe 3 fans under the bonnet
    somewhere. After a drive, or when stuck in traffic, a very noisey
    one comes on for a short period. Also after swtiching off, one from
    under the engine ? continues for 20 minutes, no matter how short
    the journey. Is this normal ? Will this change after the
    inspection/engine tighten service ?
    
    2.  Low end perormance is ace, but mid and above less so. I hope
    this will improve as the engines loosens. Is this other owners
    experience as well ?
    
    3.  How long should you wait with the engine on tick-over before
    stopping it. ?
    
    4.  As a lease car - am I responsible for turbo oil (if any).?
    
    Rich. (still-thinking-of-a-name-for-it)

yep the switches are naff
yep two fans - one for the radiator & one for the carb (the noisy one)
perhaps you're leaving the engine running too long after your journey - this 
will cause the engine heat to build up under the bonnet - causing the fan to
turn on
30-40 seconds should suffice (depending on the engine tepmerature)


...art

    Manual states that you should leave the engine running only until the spee
    speed settles down, I tend to switch mine off fairly quick, as it 
    settles down to 1000rpm.
    
    37 mpg, that's impressive, did you never use the turbo then??
    
    Mid range performance is good, if you keep the revs high, ie drop down to
    3/4 to overtake.
    
    Greg
    

    Ta,
    
    re 37mpg - most of the miles at < 3500rpm. Changed up as the boost
    came on. Kept eye on boost, adjusted right foot up a bit when cruising.
    (Technique perfected with the Golf which had an econometer.)
    
    Rich.

    I'm very keen on getting a GT Turbo as my next lease (currently driving
    XR3i) car, despite the worries of warm start problems. However as i
    won't be ordering until early next year i am concerned that they will
    still be making them. I hear they are bringing out a new "5" shortly
    without a turbo option and with new laws requiring new cars  to run on
    unleaded, will this be the demise of the GT Turbo as we know it ?
    
    I'd really like the raider but this seems  to be only a limited
    edition. 
    
    Any comments on this, and anyone want to take over my XR3i so I can put
    my order in now ?
    
    Roy

    Roy,
    
    This has been mentioned/discussed and guessed at many times somewhere in 2
    256.*. I don't think anyone has a definite answer, even Renault dealers 
    seem to be saying different things. The dealer near me reckons that
    they will be phasing out production in the next month or so.
    
    Good news for us owners, bad news for all would be owners!
    
    Greg

    re .429
    
    Rich,
    
    If your back windows keep popping open I would suggest they are not
    closed properly. A friends kids were playing with mine and afterwards I
    had the same problem, turned out they weren't clicked fully shut, although
    they looked shut from the outside.
    
    Greg

Well,

being the owner of a (nearly) rejuvenated one (after the crash, see previous
notes), I'm still pleased with mine, and would probably get another if I
could.

Mines done 33,000 miles. Engine runs really smoothly right up to 6,500 rpm,
pulls beautifully with Turbo. New four speaker stereo is great (Garage couldn't
find a replacement Pioneer), must find an extra set of cheapie speakers.

The fans are a bit annoying, but you get used to them.

Great car.

Mark.

    Hi, what hifi have you got now ?
    
    If you have them - where are the rear speakers, were they hard to
    fit/wire up ?
    
    Anybody else running 4 speakers off the std pioneer ?
    
    Rich

	Hi Rich,

	Yes I got 4 speakers off the standard pioneer, sounds ok. The pioneer
 suffers a bit at high volumes. The rear speakers were put in by the garage,
 therefore a little cheap & nasty . I thinking about putting some new ones in, 
just starting to cost it.

Sean 

I used to like the standard Pioneer, but am very pleased with the replacement.

It is a Phillips "Renault Audio" one. It has 4 speaker output, and is intended
for the R19, R21 with remote control (I think).

I went to DriveSound (in Basingstoke) to have a look at speakers that you can
get, and there was a nice sounding pair of Pioneers (or was that Panasonic!!)

I'll let you know what they sound like (I didn't have my cheque book with me!)

Mark.

P.S. I doubt whether the Pioneer would be that good at high volumes. The main
problem with it is power.

    I went to drivesound (in Basingstoke) and was quoted 1500 quid to
    put in a tape/radio/ multi cd player and speakers. A bit OTT I thought,
    and they wanted the car for 2 days!
    
    Tony
    

    The main problem I have with Poineer's (this one and one I had in
    my Abarth) is tape wobble, esp beginning/end. ie distortion in the
    treble range, regardless of power, caused by vibration.
    
    What tapes do people use (I use maxcell crome ones.)
    
    Rich.

    Well after 28 months of the lease, and 49000 miles, here's
the verdict on my R5GTT:

Performance - seems to have gradually improved throughout the
life of the car. It started off fast, and I'm sure it's now even
faster (once going). I thought they were supposed to slow down as 
they wear ?

Handling - a joy to drive, especially down twisty country roads.
It's still capable of bringing an uncontrollable grin from ear to 
ear !

Economy - I've been averaging about 30-35 MPG, but a lot of my driving
is at a fairly boring pace to and from work (20 miles each way). The MPG
drops to mid-20s once the car is driven in a 'lively' manner.

Reliability - this, unfortunately has spoilt the relationship between 
myself and the car - it's got steadily worse ! The only times it's left
me stranded is with my TWO broken clutch cables, each time the nipple at
the engine end of the cable breaking off. I've also had a recurrent problem
with the off-side rear shock absorber attachment bolt working loose at the body
attachment point, resulting in alarming knocks when going over bumpy roads. 

But the real downer has been the starting/coughing problem. The joys getting
it to start when hot have extended to starting when cold, while the hot starts
have got gradually worse ! The car coughs/cuts out even more when hot, and has
on several occasions left me dangerously stranded mid roundabout/junction after
cutting out, then refusing to start again for 10-15 seconds (aarrgghh). It's
even recently started coughing when only warm, whilst doing a steady 50-60 ish,
and that's despite a service!

It's not just the engine - when the engine is very hot (eg traffic jam & hot
day), the gearbox gets more and more stiff as well. In the recent warm weather
in a London traffic jam, I ended up just leaving my foot on the clutch - once
out of gear it wouldn't get back into first/second. Ended up with a
well-developed calf muscle !! 

No amount of servicing or tinkering by the Renault garage has improved any
of this, it seems to be a 'feature'. 

Conclusion - It's a great car to drive once on the open road, but I would
certainly NOT recommend one for anyone who does a lot of town driving. I
wouldn't consider getting another for myself - it's just too unreliable.

I must stress that this is purely from my experience - I may have had a
rogue car, or done more miles than other people. It's the first of the
mark 2 (E reg) models, with the single-tone body and trim/bumpers, and certainly
has all of the latest coffee fans and other cooling devices.

I'm looking forward to the novelty of a new lease car that will start first
time !!!

Pete

    re. .440
    
    What was the system they were quoting, and was it inclusive of
    installation? I've just had an Alpine multichanger/controller ...
    fitted to my BX, admittedly no tape (I've none to play) at John
    Kleis in Reading, admittedly not the cheapest, but as far as the
    quality of the work they are well worth the extra (little things
    like using monster speaker cable, bayonet connectors so that I can
    remove the rear shelf to get large loads in etc). Important points
    to think about are the shock resistance of the unit (only skipped
    once so far), the size (Alpine is the smallest at 6 discs, the 10
    disc pioneers/sony/kenwood are VERY large in comparison), and whether
    the unit performs as well vertically (useful if like me you have
    things skidding around in the boot.
    
    If you want a listen let me know (where are you btw).
    
    Nigel

    RE: .443
    
    What are you getting after this?
    
    Mines in mid-life, and seems OK now. There is a bit of a problem with
    hot-starting, but I've only just discovered the knack. The engine
    starts at extremely low revs, so, if you just turn the engine for a
    very short time, and let go (with no pressure on the throttle!), then
    it seems to start every time. It does take quite a while to get up to
    idling (read approx 4 seconds), when it is hot, but it hasn't failed
    yet with this technique.
    
    Cold starting is just the same with the choke out.
    
    Mark.

    Well mark, the quote for my next car is one of the several thousand
    on VTX at the moment for a BMW 318iS. It's a lot slower than the
    Renault, but VERY nice to drive, and hopefully more reliable.
    
    The cold starting problem I referred to isn't so much getting the
    engine to fire, it's just keeping it running in the 10 or so seconds
    after it's fired.
    
    Pete

    Almost had my turby trampled to death by a crazed horse on Sunday,
    and I think it might have been the cars fault.
    
    It was parked in the carpark of the Sun Inn in the New Forest. A
    horse rider came in and tied his horse to a post at the far end
    of the carpark. 15 minutes later we went back to the car to leave.
    got in and started the car in the usual manner. Listened to the
    radio for 15-20 secs, .... when suddenly saw said horse leap up,
    tears the post out of the ground which then hit the horse on the
    rear quarters sending it crazy !!  My car is in direct line with the
    horse as it tries to get away !  Occupants of car freeze in panic!
    
    Horse misses car by 5 feet (pheww!). Owner of horse grabs it and
    eventually leads it away. I make quiet exit from carpark, wondering
    whether this was a coincedence ? or perhaps an ultra high wine from
    the engine/turbo ??  
    
    Rich.

    Re .447 . Well, if you will ferry Chateau Margaux around ...
    

    
    it doesn't take 15-20 seconds for a horse to react to noise...
    
    unless of course it takes 15-20 seconds for your turbo to cut in...:-)

    The Horse re-acted to the noise of 120 Horse under the bonnet.
    
    What was on the radio at the time ....Crazy Horses....
    
    
    
                        KR

    I like it
    
    actually it was The Beach Boys with Barberanne. Any other suggestions
    what should have been playing ?
    
    Rich (with almost the worlds only 121 horse powered R5)

	I once lived on a main road, and was astonished one day to see
	a horse with a long length of rope and a pole on the end charging
	along the carriageway, amongst the many vehicles there!.

	Apparently it had come from a field a mile or so away and managed
	another mile before running out of steam. Fortunately it exhibited
	good road manners and didn't come to any grief. This was quite 
	amazing since the pole/rope were flying about all over the place
	and only needed to get caught up for a swift end to it's frolics.

	-John

    Even worse - I've actually seen a horse climb over a car - loads
    of damage !

    
    Well, I've been *on* a horse that's jumped over a car....
    
    ;-)

    
    Knew a girl back when, who had been driving an X1/9 down the local
    motorway one night. Suddenly there was a horse in front of her, which
    she hit. Ended up with horses head coming through the window, one
    written off car, and one extremly shaken girl, in a bad way. Horse
    didn't make it.
    
    Reminds me of the real danger of moose in Sweden. 

    My car goes in for its Inspection Check Service tommorrow, where
    I believe they change the oil(s), tighten down the engine etc.
    
    Question - should I tell the garage what oils to use. I'm sure i
    read in this note somewhere about special turbo unit oil which can
    boost performance?
             - anything else ?
    
    Rich (mileage now 1850)

Renault in reading use Shell Gemini in turbo cars (a synthetic oil)
but I suppose you should tell 'em just in case...


...art

It should definitely be synthetic. The Oil can go ropey very quickly (Engine
noisier when cold towards end of service interval).

    Just Taken delivery of a R5 Turbo Raider, And I have a few simple
    questions to ask.
    
    
    1) When running in the engine for the first 600 - 2000 Miles, Does
       damage occur if you kick in the Turbo but stay under 3000 revs ?
       
    2) What rev's does the Turbo do ? Someone said it does 40k revs
       per min !!!
       
    3) How does the Turbo work ? Does it Compress air before it goes
       into the Cylinder ? 
    
    
    I must say it's a great car with a lot of power waiting to be released,
    can't wait to open her up after the first service .
    
                           K.Raven

>>    2) What rev's does the Turbo do ? Someone said it does 40k revs
>>     per min !!!

most turbos spin at 100,000 rpm on road cars

tuned units can spin at 200,000rpm %-)

...art

>      1) When running in the engine for the first 600 - 2000 Miles, Does
>     damage occur if you kick in the Turbo but stay under 3000 revs ?
  
    After the initial run-in period, the handbook says that peak
    performance will not be achieved until around 1,500 miles, but unless
    you are silly, you should not do too much damage to the engine.
    You may as well wait until after the first service though, because
    it is not until then that you can really appreciate the superior
    qualities that only R5GTt drivers can experience.
    
>      3) How does the Turbo work ? Does it Compress air before it goes
>      into the Cylinder ? 
    
    Yes! (see the note on Turbos versus Superchargers)
    
>      I must say it's a great car with a lot of power waiting to be released,
>  can't wait to open her up after the first service .
    
    It is worth the wait!
    
    mb

    Welcome to the club Mr Raven !
    
    1)- I kept my revs to 3000 max (except 1 accidental slip into 3rd
    instead of 5th!) for the first 2000 miles. However its just as
    important to let the car cool down at the end of a journey dont
    forget.
                         
    Mines now done 3000, but I think the engines still tight at the
    top end of the rev range.
    
    Whats the hifi like ?
    
    
    Rich.

    The HI-FI is great it's one of those RDS systems (Radio Data System)
    I had a chance saturday to read the operation manual, and prog.
    in some radio channels while I was waiting for the other half in
    Brent Cross car park , give a VMS manual any day.
    
    What do you mean by let cool down at end of run....I let mine idle
    for 20 seconds then I turn the ignition off and walk away...to the
    sound of a fan going, which goes for about 15 Mins ! .       
    
    My first service is tomorrow ,  I have clocked up 750 Miles , 
    If I continue to keep under 3000 revs for the next 1250 miles and
    I use the same oil till ( Changed Tomorrow ) the next service (
    6000 Miles ) then whats the point ? .
    
    
    
                                 K.Raven
    

    
    
    Must tell the world abouit this one ...
    
    About 19:20 Hours M4 Traffic Jam for about three miles London Bound
    just before Newbury turnoff ( I think ) , Jam due to a turned over
    Gipsy type caravan , Glance to my right and Who's sitting in the
    fast lane in a Blue Aston Martin convertable sandwiched by two
    Granada's, but old Charles on his way back from playing POLO .
    
    I'm sure He made a Glance at my Raider ! .
    
    
                              K. Raven 

	I heard on the Radio (210) yesterday that Charles had been told off
	by the Police on the M4 for stopping on the hard-shoulder to put his
	roof up when it started chucking it down.

	What started as a telling off probably turned into an offer of
	assistance when they saw who it was.

		Paul.

    Surely you're allowed to stop on the hard sholder when it rains
    if you have the soft top down. Otherwise driving on would be dangerous
    due to the extreme weather conditions against you with no protection.
    
    If you see what i mean...

    Seen on the M4 yesterday, going towards London, was a Car transporter
    load of about 10 renault 5 turbos, all done out in the racing stripes,
    and sponsers colours, looked like the ones you see on the Celebrety
    driving championships, and in the Birmingham superprix etc.
    
    Thought you guys may appreciate the sighting!
    
    Carl 

    Re: stopping on the hard shoulder.....
    
    I believe the law says "only in an emergency".
    
    Stopping cos your toupe is getting wet, doesn't count, and I recall
    stopping cos you're tired and falling asleep also doesn't count.
    
    Correct procedure is to leave at the next exit and do your fiddling...

    re .463
    
    My cool down period depends on how hot I think the engine/turbo
    unit is. Minimum of 5secs , up to 2mins if I've really been hacking
    it. Average is 20-30secs, as most journeys end with a slow section.
    
    Running in, I believe, allows various metal bits to "bed-in", and
    in the opinion of various mechanics is essential for long trouble
    free engine life. Have patience ! take the car out for long calm
    drives like I did, those miles will soon dissappear.

    
    Actually the reason why you let the car idle for several seconds,
    is because if the turbo has just been 'blipped', the turbo is still
    rotating thus if turned off there's no where for the excess air
    to escape - except through the seals !!! Therefore in theory if
    the turbo wasn't being used before stopping, you can immediately switch
    off. 
    Also the reason you 'run in' a car is due to the metal chaffing
    as no amount of machining during manufacturing can give perfect
    tolerance when building the engine. 
    
    Stewart.
    
    

re .-1 The reason I've been given for both of the Mazda turbo's I've had has
been as the earlier replies ... allows the turbo to cool a little before
the same lot of oil is left trying to cool it without flowing, otherwise the
oild just gets _too_ hot and begins to break down ... end result after a while
is a sumpful of useless oil

Peter

    ... and something about Teflon bearings inside the turbo.
    
    (I for one was dissappointed that my owners handbook had b*&&^% all
    technical info.)
     
    Rich.

	Driving with the top down is dangerous for me in the wet - 'cause
	my specs get wet, and they don't have wipers.

	The spray from lorries is muddy too, and makes the glasses opaque.

	I'd have thought that if anything is distracting you when driving on a 
	motorway, and you can fix it with a short stop on the hard shoulder, 
	then you should stop and fix it.

	Heather - caught once in 5 weeks-without the soft-top, but never again.

    Just checking - I am right in thinking that R5 turbo's only come
    in 1400cc ?
    
    Rich. (Someone said they drove a 1700cc turbo R5)

    I took my R5 Turbo Raider for its first service yesterday 
    ( 53 Pounds for oil and filters - labour was free ) , The chap in
    the service bay said that the engine takes about 2000 - 3000 miles
    to run in becuase the R5 Turbo engines are very tight and not pre-run
    in unlike other models ( 25's , 19's etc ).
    
    He did not put synthetic oil in the engine because P.H.H. have been
    known to refuse to pay for it becuase of the cost, however they
    had to put synthetic oil in the gearbox at 5.00 pound per litre
    .
    
    
                               KR
    
    1200 miles to go to the magic 2000 when I will open her up.
    
        
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Re PHH  not putting in synthetic oil
    
    sigh - yet another indication that they dont give 2 hoots !
    
    Mr ANGRY
    

    ... and my 1st service - actually just the initial service - was
    only #20.00    Think someone's been ripped ?

    The garage was    ' OLD OAK' of Enfield.
    
    Breakdown of bill.
    
    OIL FILTER                    6.35
    FILTER P/PMP 18              11.80   ( What is this ? )
    WASHER ADDITIVE                .95
    COOLANT 1LITRE                1.98
    ENGINE OIL SUPER              6.60
    TURBO GEARBOX OIL            17.50   (3.5 LITRES AT 5.00 PER LITRE)
                                          
    
    Total                        45.36
    VAT                           6.80
    Total rip off                52.16
    
    
                              KR
    
    

    Can the engine survive without synthetic OIL ?
    
    
                                KR

>>                      <<< Note 256.478 by YUPPY::RAVEN >>>
>>                            -< BREAK DOWN OF BILL >-
    
>>    COOLANT 1LITRE                1.98
    
    Isn't this water???? or does the 5 have some exotic coolant?
    
    Richard
    

    Could be Spring Water !
    
    
                              KR
    
    Is it some addative like anti-freeze .

>>                      <<< Note 256.481 by YUPPY::RAVEN >>>
    
>>    Is it some addative like anti-freeze .

    That needed a whole litre on it's first service?. If it was they
    should've been ashamed to admit this!
    
    Richard

    Fellow R5GTT drivers, lets start a new trend and show what a nice
    bunch of people we are ie:
    
    	flash (your headlights!) and wave at other GTT's on the road.
    
    I've started to do this, and get about a 50% response.
    
    Rich
    
    ps - dont forget to wave !

This use of headlights contravenes the highway code and may be
misinterpreted.  Also Mr Plod may not like it.

Be careful...

Scott

    Just a comment on the practice of stopping on the hard shoulder,
    (called the emergency lane here). 
    Quote from this morning's (Friday) paper. "Three young men died
    yesterday when their car was hit from behind by a truck near Benalla.
    The car was parked in the emergency lane on the Hume Freeway when the
    truck hit it, ripping its roof off, and shunting it down an
    embankment."
     The speed limit on this road is 100 kilometers per hour, and I would
    imagine that the truck (a semitrailer),  would be doing this speed. 
    Regards, Ray

    
    
    No the last note is not miss-placed..
    
    
    The Topic went...
    
    I saw Prince Charles while in my raider.....
    Prince charles got told off for stopping on the hard shoulder....
    Accident 3 killed while stationary on hard shoulder....
    
    
    
                             KR
    
    P.S. How is The old chaps arm ?

    
    
    
>> P.S. How is the old chaps arm ?
    
    Sore, I expect !

To stray even further from the topic:

When was the last time anyone had a general anaesthetic to have a
broken arm set.  My mum used to work in a hospital and said it was unheard of!

When schoolkids break a limb, they're taken to hospital, plastered up and back
again within the hour.  None of this namby-pamby staying in hospital overnight!

Scott

    I cut my finger once.  Is it OK to talk about that in the Renault 5
    GT Turbo note?
    
    Jeff.

    When you have normal breaks on car Disk at front and Drum at back
    the ratio of breaking is 70 Front 30 Back, However if on the R5
    Turbo you have Disk at Front and Back is it Just 50 : 50 or are
    the Front breaks still more efficent than the back .
    
    
    
                            KR

The relative "power" of the front and back brakes depends on a lot more than
just disk/drum.

The size of disk / drum, and size of pads affect the friciton area, and hence
braking power.

The type and condition of pads and disks/drums also is important.

There may also be a "proportioning valve" in the braking circuit to restrict
the pressure to one of the braking circuits.  This may be adjustable, allowing
the brakes to be set up for different conditions.

As the car's weight is "thrown" forwards on braking, you want more braking
power at the front anyway.  Also, with front-engined cars, that's where most
of the weight is in the first place...

If you really want to know the brake set up for your specific car, go to a
garage, and get them to test the brakes, and tell you the braking
force on each wheel.

Scott

    
    I think the braking effort in most fwd models is about 70/30
    and I don't imagine the ratio changes much. So, with better
    front brakes on the 5GTT the rears would also need to be
    improved to maintain the ratio. 
    
    Certainly Minis used to have a device to limit the pressure
    being transmitted to the rear drums. 

    The "cheap" ABS systems (Girling) used for fwd relies on the fact
    that most (80%) of the braking is being done by the front wheels.
    
    

    RE A few back,
    
    A number of fellow Renault owners have been flashing me recently, quite
    nice to see, I'm normaly too shocked/surprised to flash back!!!
    
    
    
    Greg

    I was Flashed once in a Park ....Was he a Renault owner ?
    
    
                               KR

    Reminds me of when I had an Austin-Healey Sprite.
    
    Owners would flash each other, *but* were extremely sniffy, because
    if the aproaching car was a Midget you'd ignore it.
    
    You looked at the front grille, and if it was mesh, he was ok, if
    it was bars - ignore him - MG imposter.
    
    AMS

    
    Had my 'Raider' delivered this morning in Reading and have just driven
    it down to the office at Solent.
    
    Initial impressions are that it's going to take a great deal of
    self-restraint when running in !!
    
    The only thing that's duff is the cassette player, unfortunately I
    didn't discover this until I was halfway down the M3 |-{.

What do you mean 'duff' ?

Does it work? or does it not work too well?

I like the idea of the Raider 'coz its a RDS radio.

Mark.

    
    Doesn't work.  Put the tape in and the radio keeps on going.
    
    Re; RDS
    
    Having glanced over the instruction leaflet that will also require some
    concentration to understand how to programme the d**n thing.....
    
    
    Nev.

    
    37.3 mpg on the first tank of petrol.  
    
    Turbo guage doubles as an econometer (!).
    
    Running in a R5GTT is probably the most frustrating things in life.
    
    Horn is a pathetic squeek.
    
    Sticks to the road like glue (quote ?).
    
    Instrument layout excellent, however I have to move more than my hands
    to operate stereo.
    
    All round visibility superb, the windows are enormous.
    
    Door mirrors are too small, have to be adjusted to perfection.
    
    
    Nev.

    Nev,
    
    got yourself a real "BOY" racer now ehh ?!  ;-)
    
    
    Greg, if you were flashed/waved at by a silver R5 - twas me perhaps.
    
    Rich (waving now)

    
    For those of you who don't fully understand Richard's previous note, My
    new R5 Turbot has the unfortunate Reg plate  "G 238 BOY".  Can't win
    'em all....
    
    
    Nev.

    Nev,
    
    you must be psysic,
    
    I often call mine turbot, cos its silver and usually going FLAT
    out !
    
    Rich (thats why you've got the whip and felt hat!)

    You must have a problem with your horn , mine came with an excellent
    horn, its a AIR Horn I think.
    
    I would get yours looked at .
    
                        KR

    
    Try using your horn shortly after washing the car! You get a nice
    squeak out of them then! :^)
    
    Nice to see the BEST SMALL HATCHBACK getting the praise and support it
    deserves.
    
    E399 GPK is still running well and still (as someone else said) capable
    of producing the ear-to-ear grin (also now capable of leaving BMW
    325i's behind!).
    
    A bit of a step up, eh Neville? I guess you didn't fancy the
    hairdresser hatch too much?
    
    Mark
    

    
    Good to see you back Mark.  It was mainly the praise expressed by
    yourself in this note that persuaded me to go Non-Ford for the first
    time in my life, it also allows me to blame someone else if it turns
    out to be a bad choice ;-).
    
    N.

    Mark, 
    
    Whats this about only recently being able to see off 325i's - I've been
    doing it in my Pug since it was run in ;-)
    
    
    John

    Mark,
    
    So, where have you ended up back at this time, seeing as we burn't down
    your old desk!!,
    Seriously, welcome back, still got the Renault 5 ?, Even my beetle has
    now got a pair of 1989 renault 5 TXE seats in it now!!
    
    Carl.

    
    The ability to burn off BMWs REMAINS (in spite of 'expert' opinion that 
    the performance would fade), but recently I found a BMW driver with
    enough ambition to try to beat me! :^)
    
    The Marcos is still two tone red and peel, but I'll update that story
    when I get some more time.
    
    Mark

Do any of you Renault 5 GT Turbo owners have trouble when filling the
car with petrol ? 
My Raider causes all the petrol pumps I have tried to cut out 
if anything more than a trickle  is dispensed. This means I spend
at least 5-10 minutes getting 10 gallons into the tank. I've tried
changing the angle I hold the pump nozzle, altering the distance
I push the nozzle into the filler pipe, but to no avail.
Even the woman at the Jet station near Shinfield which is not self-service, 
finds it as difficult to fill the tank as I do.
Is this just a feature of R5 GTTRs or can I get it fixed?

Phil.

    
    I have found that if you push the nozzle in too far that it cuts the
    flow off, but normally I don't have any problem with filling the tank.
    It just flows until the tank is full.
    
    
    Mark

    re ;513.
    
    I had the very same problem in my old car, very similar to the R5GtT.
    
    Min was caused by an air bubble, perhapsyours too?
    
    Mind you Marina's are a bit outdated now ;-)

    
    Hi there Mark,
    
    As you are noting from CRATE, does that mean you are here in the 
    Solent ?
    
    I'm sure you said "Never again" last time you left !  
    
    ;-)

    
    I never say "Never again!". (Contractors can't afford to! :^))
    
    No, I'm not a SBP I'm at REO.
    
    Mark

I find that when I occasionally use unleaded (sometimes I can't resist for just
one tank), that that works much better. Presumably because the nozzle is 
thinner.

As for the horn, a quick beep doesn't work. Leave it depressed for a bit longer,
and it soon sounds good.

Mark.

P.S. If your RDS radio is too difficult, I can do a swap!

The filling problem is caused by fuel in the filler pipe frothing back up the
pipe and activating the automatic cut-out on the nozzle.

Minis are easy to fill, as the nozzle goes right into the tank, and the froth
spreads over a large area so doesn't rise up so high.

Marinas and three-door metros are the worst, because they have very long filler
pipes to the tank which are quite low down, giving a lot of "froth-back".  The
problem is compounded by the flow of air out of the tank up the filler pipe.

The trick is to angle the nozzle so the fuel flows around/along the filler pipe
in a helix, leaving the centre "empty" for air to escape.  Also, because the
fuel is flowing less turbulently, you get less froth.

It also depends on how sensitively the auto cut-outs are adjusted.  If it's
particularly bad in one garage, have a word with the manager and ask him to
adjust them.  Some are so sensitive that the merest whiff of fuel vapour makes
them cut out.

Scott

    My main problem is getting the filler cap on and off, you have to
    put it on at an angle and the keyring with the keys and remote control
    unit clutter thing up. 
    
    As for filling up, I have no problem , when the pump klicks off
    just pull the nozzel out a little and continue with less speed.
    
    I used to be a pump attendant and the worst fillers were Diesel
    Golfs at the time .
    
    The RDS radio requires some reading of the manual, which I mastered
    one saturday afternoon sitting in the carpark at Brent Cross while
    the other half was having a credit card frenzy.
    
    The car's performance in breath taking , I got 120 MPH out of her
    last night before I let off the gas, this was only a short burst
    on a very empty M25 about 23:00 hours but she still had power left,
    but I had the thought of a year's ban in the back of my mind if
    caught , so I decided to wind her down after about 5 mins .
    
    
    
                         KR.
    

	Re: Filling problems

	I actually asked this quesution at a service and the garage chap told me 
that its was due to the fact that the car had two connected petrol tanks and 
that the top (smnaller) one fills up quicker that it fill up the lower one hence
the automatic cut out activates. I found that wiggling the nozzle usually helps.


Regarding: 120 Mph on the M25 Was 'Her_indoors' with you ? 


set mode/boyracer

I managed to totally blitz a new fiesta turbo last night. It bought a tear to 
the other drivers eyes as he spent the last month telling me its was going to
murder the R5

Badger

    Can someone post the mph per rev ratios please - I think my speedo
    may be a touch optimistic at legal speeds (although conversly the
    opposite at illegal speeds ?)
    
    Rich.
    
    PS - welcome back Mr Sax.

    I thinks its about 23 - 24 MHP per 1000 rev's in 5th gear .
                 
    
                            KR
    
    Sean , I left the other half on the hard shoulder , 10st less makes
    better performance .

The easiest way I know to check your speedo calibration is to drive along a
motorway at (say) a constant 60mph and get someone
to time how long it takes you to pass 88 of the white roadside markers with
red stripes on.  They're 100 yards apart, so 88 of them is five miles.  You
could use fewer, but it keeps the maths simple and the long averaging period
will reduce errors due to fluctuations in speed, miscounting, etc....

Your real speed is then:    5 * 3600  MPH, where T is the time measured above,
                            --------       in seconds.
                               T

Your speedo can legally be 10% out, so if it says 60, your real speed should
be between 54 and 66 mpg.

NB If you use fewer/more than 88, you'll need to change the 5 in the sum!

Scott

I'm pretty well convinced that my speedo is pessimistic!!

I've asked friends (driving a X reg BMW 316 and a G reg Cavalier) what speed
they were doing, and their speedos said about 5mph more than mine at the same
speed.

I must try that post lark!

Mark.

    Thanx Scott,
    
    the test I was anticipating will only take 2.5 mins using all those
    little sticks .  ;-)  ;-)
    
    Rich.

    Anyone else getting an intermittant "hot-stalling" problem. ie
    
    1. Engine nice and warm,
    2. Stop at a junction for 5+ secs
    3. Into 1st
    4. Start to pull away, revs about 1500
    5. Car moves forward 2-3 feet, then almost dies - I jam left foot
    on clutch, raise revs and engage gears - preying that that lorry
    hurtling towards me has noticed !
    
    Is this a trait of Mk2's, or should I report it at the 6000 service?
    
    Rich.

this is reputed to be an infamous problem

I've only once had a hot start problem; just after I bought the car, after a 
trip stuck in various jams in London, it took quite a bit of churning to get 
the engine started. At that time it was in need of a service, and the spark 
plugs were found to be in a very poor condition.

Set of new plugs; never had a problem with starting since.

However back to the "hot-stalling" problem...

one afternoon last week (a particularly hot day), I did have a few problems
(as in .527), it was always when coming to a stop for roundabouts or junctions
engine almost dies when trying to move on. Happened to me twice before I knew
how to compensate for the problem. There have been hotter days before, and
since then and the problem has never recurred. 

It happened the day I had the oil changed; maybe the fact that I had kept the 
old oil in it for too long induced the problem... I don't know.

maybe your 6000ml oil change will alleviate the problem. Let us know how you 
get on

...art

ps.mines the older oil cooled turbo

I may be wrong, but I remember seeing somewhere that the turbo used to be prone
to fuel vapour locks. Renualt went so far as to produce a mod kit. Could this
be a recurrence?

Dick

I think that the new cars have this mod. see waayyyy back.

I've noticed an occasional tendency to die a little, I think there is a knack
to not having this happen. I don't have it happen very much now.

Mark.

Well mine's a G-regd GTT and on Sunday after a long fast 
drive from Lyndhurst to Tadley (80 miles?) I had started to get a
slight stalling sensation as I accelerated.

Since I was very low on petrol I stopped to fill up and the
sound of air rushing into the tank as I opened the filler cap 
was quite something - bit like a whoopee cushion being sat on !

So perhaps vapour lock is still a problem.

I'll monitor mine after long runs to see if it always happens.

Phil.

>>
Since I was very low on petrol I stopped to fill up and the
sound of air rushing into the tank as I opened the filler cap 
was quite something - bit like a whoopee cushion being sat on !
>>

i've never had this; isn't the filler cap a vented type?

...art

Re the stalling problem,

  My GT turbo is now two years old, it has always had a tendency to stall when
pulling away from junctions once the engine is VERY hot, I have complained about
it to Weldale motors ( who service the car regularly ) and Renault UK they both
say that it shouldn't hapeen but they cant fix it. I find that the answer is to
make sure the engine has plenty of revs before letting the cluch out completely
when pulling away.( this is now a reflex for me ! )

 I also have a flat spot between 1 and 2000 revs, if i give the accelerator a
sharp jab between these speeds the engine will try to stall, again i have
complained about this and the answer is it shouldnt happen, still they havent
fixed it. Has anybody else had the same problem ?


 Barrie_who_still_loves_his_GTturbo

Are any of you GTturbo fans members of the Renault Owners Club ?

 The R O C together with the Alpine car club are organising a day in August when
club members can exercise their GTturbos on the Cadwell Park racing circuit in
Lincolnshire.

 If any of you would like details of the R O C mail me on SYSTEM::TURNER


 Barrie.

>>pulling away from junctions once the engine is VERY hot


how hot is VERY hot?
the temp guage on mine is split into thirds; the hottest the needle has 
indicated on mine is very close to the red line indicating the start of the
last third.

...art

 I dont know !

  The problem usually occurs in hot weather if i've been indulging in some hard
driving on nice open roads and then have to sit in traffic queues around town.

  I assume that the constant use of the turbo gets the whole of the underbonnet
area very hot and then while the car is sitting in traffic jams it just
cant loose the heat which will lead to the vapourization of the fuel. Although
the "coffee" fan is blowing its guts out on the base of tha carb its sucking in
warm air from under the front wing, which doesnt do much to keep things cool.

 Barrie.

have you tried putting some heat retardent material around the fuel pipes
under the bonnet?

I'm thinking of doing that (even tho' I don't have much of a problem with
vapour lock) - just to be on the safe side.

does anyone know of any aluminised? wraps available for small tubes?

ta.

...art

Someone will be selling something suitable at Sandown...

Scott ;-)

    I understood it was the fuel in the carb float chamber that vapourised
    and hence caused the momentary starvation. Maybe the carb needs an
    intercooler :-).
    
    Richard

Louvres in the bonnet apparently help.

    and the most urgent, nay crucial question of the moment is ....
    
    
         how do I clean off all the bl&&$y insect splats !?
  
    Rich (peering thru the protein miasma on the windscreen)

    Rich,
    
    The best way I found was to use a naff 'end of hose attachment brush'
    someone gave me for my birthday some years back plus a bit of elbow
    grease. Also gets the dead insect off the front bonnet, grill, spoiler
    etc etc.
    
    Glad to see that someone else's windscreen wipers don't clear them off,
    mine just spread them a bit!!
    
    
    Greg

    JIF seems to work on the bonnet and plastic bumpers....
    
    
    'What was the last thing to go through the fly's mind before he
    was splatered all over your windscreen ??
    
    
    His ar..

    Scotchbrite oea gets flies off quite nicely.
    
    Imparts more flavour to the washing up water too.
    
    Steve

    
    
    ....actually suceeded clearing the windscreen by utilizing the good
    old PHH Chargecard ! (+ soapy water)
    
    The secret is to hold the card lenghthwise along the palm with just
    a bit protruding.
    
    Rich.
    

    
    Holts fly squash remover....
    
    works great.

    Anyone know what a reasonable price is for a 6000 mile service?
    
    Weldale in Reading did mine yesterday and charged 79 pounds.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    Spike,
    
    Mine was either 51 or 55 pounds, whatever it's still a tiny bit cheaper
    ;^)
    
    Oh well there you have the North/South divide!!!
    
    Greg from t'north

    
    Had the car for 3 weeks, MAGIC..........
    
    First service cost 41 quid at Weldale Earley.
    
    Petrol consumption as follows ;-
    
       Miles     MPG
    
       0- 304     37.3 Driven EXTREMELY carefully (<2500rpm no turbo)
     305- 625     36.1 Driven VERY carefully (<3000rpm no turbo)
     626- 928     33.4 Driven carefully (<3000rpm little turbo)
     929-1218     32.0 Exploring the turbo !
    1219-1497     30.8 (Why does the turbo guage only reach 75% ?)
    1498-1827     37.4 (Service, <4000rpm)
    
    
    Magic car, even after the XR2 which I loved.
    
    One thing that amazed me is that the boot space is bigger than that of
    the Fiesta.  
    
    Weldale have ordered a new stereo, the cassette was not built to work.  
    
    I find the brakes too good for the weight of the car, could do with ABS.
    
    
    Nev.

>> I find the brakes too good for the weight of the car

How about not pressing the brake pedal so hard?

Or fill the boot with concrete...

Scott ;-)

re .532

No idea whether it's a vented cap or not - I just assume that if it's
supposed to be then it will be and vice versa.

re .549

Hmmm, odd that, my (Philips) stereo has given up on me as well and 
I wasn't too happy to have Weldale tell me it could take up to
four weeks to get a new one. Still I suppose you can't really blame 
Renault for that.

Phil.

So could you elaborate on what went wrong with the stereo on the Raider?

I thought the Raider had a really posh 40 watts per channel RDS stereo.

Mark.

...it just won't play cassettes at the correct speed any more.
The radio bit still works fine.

Phil.

    
    go to another tyre fitter....

    
    Elsewhere in the conference there is another note on tyres. To save
    you looking for it here is there name and number. I have heard that
    they offer good prices and a drive out to Winchester isn't so bad.
    
    Micheldever Tyres. Tel :- 0962 89437.

	Try Shadow Racing, on the industrial estate down Rose Kiln (sp) Lane
	near DEC park.  They should have what you want at a good price.




		Mike.

RE:- 256.553

        ayov11 = Scotland (Ayr to be precise)

        Thanks for the (English) info on distributors
    
        But Are they in short supply??

	Joe.
            

To give you, an idea of how much leeway Tyre places have, I remember that
ATS in Basingstoke gave a 50% discount on the normal price of 104 pounds
for PHH.

They shouldn't be especially rare though.

Happy Hunting.

Mark.

    But don't take the free phone; it'll cost you about #900.
    
    Steve

I checked the filler cap the other evening and it is definitely
a non-vented cap (says so on the rubber seal inside it). 

Is this a design feature or a bug ?

Phil.

    Re .564 & .565;
    
    Most of these free car phone offers do indeed give you the instrument
    free. They usually require you to pay for installation - about #65 -
    and tie you into an airtime contract. Mosy of these are three years at
    #25.50 per month, which works out at #983 in all, and I am not sure if
    that includes VAT.
    
    The only exception to that which I have come accross is a Ford promo on
    Granadas, which threw all that in. For the three years all you had to
    pay for were the calls. 
    
    That is why I have refused several "free" car phones over the last
    couple of years.
    
    Steve

    Hi, I know that the new 16v R5 has already been discussed in 256.n	
    but does anyone know when it will be released in UK as a friend has 
    just been to France and said there are plenty of them over there.
    I think they are called a "cleo".
    
    I understand the new R5 range is released here in a month or so, will
    it be released then or will there be a delay like Ford with the "hotter"
    models out later ?
    
    Maybe a new note should started regarding this, as I know you guys are
    strictly turbo freaks.
    
    Royston

    Re -1
    
    	The 'Cleo' seems an apt name for such a girly car.
    
    
    
    						cheers,
    							Geo.
    							     :-))

    Re -1 and -2
    
    Except it's called a ClIo not a ClEo.
                           =          =
    
    Has he seen the 16v model there. When I was in France in June only the
    cooking models were available.
    
    Mark

    re -1
    
    Yep, he saw the cl_i_o. He reckoned they were bombing about all over
    the place, and that they looked good.
    
    Roy

    Any ideas on prices???
    
    Ian.

 This months car magazine has a picture if a Clio 16V being tested in France, It
looks like a nice car with real wheel arch extensions and not plastic add ons !.

 Renault have said that the release date for the whole range Clio in this
country will be March/April 1991.

 The 16V engine will be appearing in the 19 16V launched sometime in the next
couple of months. The engine will have 140 bhp and will endow the 19 with a top
speed of 134 m.p.h and a 0-60 time around 7.5 seconds.


  Barrie.

    
    Re the 19 with 130+ mph and 7.5 0-60.
    
    I'll be down at my Renault dealer test driving this little number.
    
    Re the Clio.
    
    Is the Clio any bigger than the current 5? When I looked at one at
    Le Mans it really didn't look it.
    
    Mark

Re -1

>>    Re the 19 with 130+ mph and 7.5 0-60.
    
>>    I'll be down at my Renault dealer test driving this little number.


  Me too !


  I think that the Clio will be the largest of the current superminis.

 Barrie.

I'm depending on it being out soon, so I can test drive it.

The picture of the Clio 16V looks very nice. The hot hatchback test in there
was good (but I would say that!).

It's funny how the magazines start liking the 5 Turbo as it is coming to the
end of its life!

Mark.

Mark,

Simple, son.


Just nip down to Dover, jump on a ferry, stop at the first Renault
garage you see in France and then test away!

;^)

Greg

    
    Maybe it's a case of 'you never know what you've got til it's gone!'.
    
    Mark (Maybe February will see a modest outlay on another 30 bhp instead
    of another car!)
    
    PS I followed a Porsche 911 Turbo this morning and it just had the edge
    on acceleration, but I could have had 10 5GTTs for the same money! :^)

    Hi all,
    
          The price for the 140 BHP, 16v Clio was quoted at approx 100000 ff
    in the copy of the French version of of Auto Weekly. That is if my
    translation of the article header was correct :^).
    
    
                             Alan.   

    Is this CLIO the ugly rounded squat thing i keep seeing, or is
    that the CLEO? Is is it a slightly modified r5 shape?
    
    Confused_of_Ferney_Voltaire.

    Yep, the CLIO is really UGLY !!! Don't know what a CLEO is ...

    Lewis, is this the place to discuss your love-life ?
    
    R.

Could someone in France get a brochure or something for this new Renault 5??

They could then scan it in, and using DECwindows notes we could all see
what it looked like.

;^)


Greg

    Believe me Greg - they're UGLY.
    
    I can't believe Renault are replacing the current 5 shape with
    this ugly monstrocity (sp?). Is this correct? Or am i getting
    my wires crossed?
    
    When i heard you lot talking about the `new 16v' i thought you meant
    in the current shape, because i've seen one (well the guy had a
    kit on and a 16v badge - so you tell me;-)).
    
    I don't own a 5 turbo but have been in one and think they are nice,
    inside and out, but this new thing .... urrggghhh.
    
    Lewis. Waiting_for_the_court_order_from_renault_to_come_through_;-)

May I humbly suggest you don't put a graphics image in notes: it takes ages to
read, and is a pain for those without DECWindows.  Put it in a world-read file,
then put a pointer to it in here.

Scott

    For those who haven't got a R5GTT ... it's your last chance to get
    one !
    
    When the CLIO 16 appears ... it will be too late !
    
    (in fact I believe the market for 2nd hand R5GTTs will explode)

    Sniff, sniff..
    
    	they'll be taking my baby away from me in 14 days, 
    
    I think I'm going to cry.
    
    Rich. (Getting faster every mile. 8-) )

    If Patrick's right, we should all buy our 5's at the end of the lease
    and sell them for MONSTER profits...(or just keep them)
    
    :^) Mines got at least 2 years lease left
    
    Greg

I shall have to have a read of that article. I noticed that a recent review
said that the 5GTT was tasty, very very tasty. Quite appropriate given my
Workstation's node name!

>>    the Renault is probably _the_ best-handling
>>    front-wheel drive car in the world, Lotus Elan included."

It's really nice to have my own views confirmed by magazine reviews (that's
why I buy magazines!). I'm a bit worried that it's rated higher than the Elan.

I was hoping sometime to *upgrade* to an Elan (dream, dream)

Maybe I'll be able to get one of the last ones.

Mark.

P.S. I quite like the shape of the Clio 16v (definitely correct spelling) shown
     in "CAR" magazine

Hi Mark,

You hit the nail on the head. I'm looking for exactly the same thing.

I'm still holding out hope for the Renault 19 16v.

As for the Lotus Elan, I like the open top idea, and it is faster.

Cheers.

Mark.

How about a Golf G60? 160+ b.h.p., 5 doors, ABS, build quality, good resell
price etc...

Minuses - fuel economy at high speed, doesn't FEEL fast, Golf due to be
replaced within a couple of years.

My boss has just got one, I'll ask his opinion when he returns from holiday.

Steve

    I don't no if its true or not but on my last visit to my local 
    Renault garage I inquired about the "new 5" and they said that the two
    models would run side be side and that I would have to wait 12 months
    to see the 16v so I might as well buy a Turbo.
    
    OR was this just the sales talk
    
    
    Regards Martin

    Renault have just announced new prices for the 5GTT over here. Here
    goes:
    
      - 5GTT                                   FF 94500.- (up from 86000.-)
      - special issue metal blue 5GTT          FF 97000.-
                                                    
    At the same time Peugeot are decreasing the 205 GTI 1.9 prices
    
    Marketing wars ?

    Noticed over the weekend that my Throttle cable seems to stick,
    so that when the foot comes off the revs stay. This usually happens
    around the 2000rpm range. Blip the accellerator and all's well.
    
    Now I guess all I have to do is apply some WD40. Where would the
    best place be ?
    
    Rich.

    "fanks 'arry", but where's that ?  Is it sprayable ?

On a carburettor engine, it's a vacuum-diaphragm attached to the throttle
spindle, and stops the throttle closing suddenly at high revs if you lift your
foot sharply.  Idea is it keeps the mixture right for the engine speed, so
giving better combustion / lower emission levels.  Where it would be on an
injection system I cannot say...

But try looking for a vacuum thingy somewhere in the throttle linkage, and that
will be it.

Scott

    RE .595
    
    Yeah, I'd be interested in hearing the feelings on the G60, but VWs
    are bland cars, and I seem to remember that the performance wasn't
    great even with the supercharger. Maybe it doesn't feel quick beause
    it isn't! 
    
    Do put in some info though, I'm open to persuasion.
    
    Mark

	Mark,

	I think the Corrado G60 is considerably more than 15K. The 16v version
	is about 15K, the G60 about 19K. I can forward you on some photocopies
	of comparison tests regarding the 200SX (wonderful car, really nice...)
	Corrado, Celica and other sporty coupe types if you give me your
	location.

	Gordon

Mark S. (cos I've told Mark J already)

Citreon BX GTi has 0-60 of 7.5 or something close, also <15k.


Greg

    
    Yep the 16 valve certainly looks a nice car (the 8 valve isn't as
    fast) and will figure highly on my test drive list come February.
    
    Mark

	Peugot 405 Mi16 ?  

	Test drove one of these last year, very good performance, although
	cabin build quality was a bit too French for me . I didn't need the 
	space though, if I had have done, well ...

	Gordon

    
    We better take this to another note before my fellow 5ers get upset.
    
    Isn't there a 'What car should I buy?' note?
    
    Mark

I think the Corrado or Golf G60 are too expensive, and not much faster (if
at all).

I have an instinctive, irrational (well not entirely irrational) dislike of
Citroen, with it's sick making suspension.

Cheers.

Mark.

    Changing the subject, I recently drove a R5GTT that was only 6 months
    old and had done 11000 miles. The clutch was incredibly "stiff",
    I gather that on this model that this is a common problem. Is there
    anything that can be done ? Is it an indication that the cable is
    about to go or even that a new clutch is needed ?
    
    Roy (Non R5GTT driver but very keen on them.)
    

    
    At about that mileage my clutch became very stiff and then the cable
    snapped (shortly after a service). Since then (now about 30k) the
    clutch has been heavy, but smooth, and shown no signs of problem (touch
    wood!)
    
    Mark

it has got quite a heavy clutch
but then it's not a car for wimps...


...art		:-)

    
    Ooops! Sorry Carl, real VWs aren't bland only the girlie watercooled
    models! :^)
    
    Mark

    Forgiven then !
    
    On a more somber note, the last air-cooled VW will roll of the
    production line in Germany, to  make way for the new Transporter range
    with front engines and water (spit..) cooling, sometime next month.
    
    A minutes silence please!
    
    (Still, at least VW Mexico still produce Beetles !)
    
    
    Carl

RE: -.1

The new VW Van is already out. It looks more like a Ford Transit than a
Ford Transit. Fwd as well. 

I've got a current camper van; however I have to admit that it is water cooled 
(I know 'cos the pump let go on holiday!) Which model was still being
made with an air cooled engine - I thought that they were all water cooled
now? BTW, I previously had an air cooled one that I totalled.

    
    Re .614, .615
    
    But what has it got to do with Renault 5 GT Turbos? Haven't you lot
    got a whole conference to chat about VWs and their rattly engines?
    
    Mark

    The Clio 16S is launched in britain on 1 march and will replace
    the 5 GT Turbo.
    
    Grant

RE: .616

Mark,

I've owned 3 Renault 5's (though not turbos) - does that qualify me?! :-)

OK, I admit that I'm jealous of not being able to contribute to this note
and was looking for a sneaky way in thru' the back door. It's obvious that
you're far too clever for me, and saw through my ploy

Steve

    
    How about a new note :-
    
    'Frustrated Would be Renault 5 GT Turbo owners' :^)
    
    The real question is do 3 Non-Turbo 5s equal a Turbo one? 
    
    Mark

    Re: .597
    
    This one's for Patrick.
    
    If the 5GTT price is now FF 94500, what is the price of the new
    clio over there and how long has been available in France.
    
    Roy

    
    	Re. 594
    
    	I totally agree about the Elan being better than the R5. As an
    owner of both cars, plus their nearest rivals (Spider and Integrale),
    I can only say that the Elan and R5 are both nice cars for shopping,
    however I find that Xmas trees normally fit better in a convertible,
    thus negating the marginally larger boot of the R5 !
    
    	Rat still waiting for the Pilots licence for the 'grali...:-)

    Clio RL 1.1 3 door    FF53100       RN 1.4  3 door  FF64400
                5  "        55000               5  "      66900
         RN 1.1 3  "        58000       RT 1.4  3  "      69500
                5  "        60500               5  "      72000
         RL 1.2 3  "        57400       RT 1.7  3  "      77500
                5  "        59900               5  "      80000
         RN 1.2 3  "        61300       RL 1.9D 3  "      68000
                5  "        63800               5  "      70500
         RT 1.2 3  "        66300       RN 1.9D 3  "      72500
                5  "        68000               5  "      75000
                                        RT 1.9D 5  "      79900
    
         The reviews of the 16S seem to indicate it will come with a "cat".

   Interestingly enough, it would appear that the car hire companies in France
   class the base model Clio as a Category B car. The base model R5, 205 and AX
   are all Category A.

   From talking to one or two french people about the Clio, they all seem to
   think that the car is very well made ... better than the current R5. None
   of them seen too keen on the shape though. The front is fine, but the back
   leaves a lot to be desired ... the two parts don't look as though they 
   belong together.

Mark

    re .623
    
    _very_ comprehensive price list !
    
    Are there no indications of price for the 16v ? Or did I miss something
    
    Roy

    Going back a bit - re .475
    
    If it is recommended that synthetic oil be used. How can PHH refuse
    to pay the "extra" when all servicing costs are considered in the
    quote ????
    
    Roy

    re a few back
    
    Thanks for the price list list Ken.
    
    The Clio has started its career in July with the new model year.
    So they're all considered 1991 models.
    
    The R5/Clio combo has managed a record market penetration France
    in July (approx 11% of all car sales).

    > just went to Weldale 
    
    Well, that's your first mistake.
    
    When I saw your car it looked very nice - I thought it was new. 
    Apparently not, or you'd be under guarantee!
    
    Jeff.

Don't know the current law regarding air-horns.  But if yours has them as
"original equipment" and they were there when the car was registered, you
shouldn't have a legal problem replacing them with same.

Similar situation with lights: post 1986 cars must have 'E' marked bulbs, but
on older cars you can still legally fit any bulbs (eg blindlingly high wattage)


Scott

Art,  	re: .629

1/	I bought some fiam air horns from halfords costing 10 pounds a couple 
	of years ago and have transferred them to 3 subsequent cars i have
	owned (they are currently in my wifes "ah hem" Yugo). I've had no
	problems at all. 

2/	It is very straight forward to fit them. there are two ways to wire them
	depending on whether the connecting wire is "earth" or "live", this
	can be determined with a lamp tester. The instructions are very clear.

3/	I think it is only the musical or multi tone horns that are illegal.	
	
Roy

    The end has finally come - Rich's last day. So its thanks to everyone
    in this notesfile for making it an interesting read.
    
    And its congratulations to Roy Shelly, whom G287 TFD "Turby" has
    picked to be his new driver !  (Enjoy Roy).
    
    So as I finally pull on my dusty boots and head off into the
    sunset, I hear a song ....
    
    
    I got a sixty-nine Chevy with a 396
    Fuelie heads and a Hurst on the floor
    She's waiting tonight down in the parking lot
    Outside the Seven-Eleven store
    Me and my partner Sonny built her straight out of scratch
    And he rides with me from town to town
    We only run for the money, got no strings attached
    We shut 'em up and then we shut 'em down.
    
    Tonight, tonight the strip's just right
    I wanna blow 'em off in my first heat
    Summer's here and the time is right
    For racin' in the street
    
    We take all the action we can meet
    And we cover all the northeast state
    When the strip shuts down we run 'em in the street
    From the fire roads to the interstate
    Some guys they just give up living
    And start dying little by little, piece by piece,
    Some guys come home from work and wash up,
    And go racin' in the street.
    
    Tonight, tonight the strip's just right
    I wanna blow 'em all out of their seats
    Calling out around the world, we're going racin' in the street.
    
    I met her on the strip three years ago
    In a Camero with this dude from L.A.
    I blew that Camero off my back,
    And drove that little girl away,
    But now there's wrinkles around my baby's eyes
    And she cries herself to sleep at night
    When I come home the house is dark
    She sighs. "Baby did you make it all right,"
    She sits on the porch of her Daddy's house
    But all her pretty dreams are torn,
    She stares off alone into the night
    With the eyes of one who hates for just being born
    For all the shut down strangers and hot rod angels,
    Rumbling through this promised land
    Tonight my baby and me, we're gonna ride to the sea
    And wash these sins off our hands.
    
    Tonight, tonight the highway's bright
    Out of our way, mister you best keep
    'Cause summer's here and the time is right
    For racin' in the street.
    
    
    			Racing In The Street
    			Bruce Springsteen  1978.
    
    

    bye Rich.
    
    One last time 'round the roundabout. See if you can catch mr Landrover
    out!
    
    
    
    Best of luck 
    
    Andy

    Hey Rich,
    
    I'm not home and dry with your 5GTT yet. My manager wants me to
    hang on to my XR3i as his cost centre will have to pay for it until
    it gets taken over by someone else.
    But I'm still working on it...
    
    All the best
    
    Roy
    

    
    Bye Rich,
    
    Heh what's all this rubbish about yanktanks? Put 'em on a real
    road and they get burnt off by Renault 5 GT Turbos! :^)
    
    Mark
    
    PS What you going to get next?
    

    
    My R5GTT doesn't feel as stable at an indicated (legal + x)mph as my
    XR2 did.  Wind plays havoc (mostly caused by the speed).
    
    Have you guys been leading me on or does my Raider need some attention?
    
    
    To summarise, I would rather have the handling of my XR2......
    
    Fact.  not provocation.
    
    
    Nev. (wobblyish !)

    
    When you say stable at x (presumably 80 - 90?) do you mean it wanders
    from lane to lane on motorways or that it weaves and feels light on 
    the road?
    
    If it's the former then possibly you are paying for the light weight
    (someone will tell us an XR2s lighter now!) of the 5, but I've never
    noticed the car as being unduly affected by wind. If it's the latter
    (instability at speed, not wind induced) then I'd get the car looked
    at, maybe something is loose. Maybe it just feels different, the XR2
    is very solid on the road, but the handling isn't as good (the Ford
    understeers more). Of course the Renault probably rolls a bit more than
    the Fiasco, but it is French!
    
    Give us a bit more info on the problem and we'll tell you if we've
    encountered similar problems.
    
    Mark

I'm taking my car into the garage, because of two problems. One is minor,
which seems to be a buzzy relay near the percolation fan.

It buzzes with the following conditions :

- Ignition on (engine not necessarily going) and percolation fan off.

- Ignition off, percolation fan on.

The other fault seems to be that the oil pressure drops drastically under
hard accelaration. The garage asked what oil was used in the last change, and
I said that I hoped it was synthetic, because you did it!

Does anyone know what sort of possible problems could be causing this drop
in oil pressure? Is it important?

Mark.

P.S. A week ago, I had a nasty noise come on under hard'ish' accelaration.
I originally thought something was trapped in the suspension, but I now
reckon that it's something to do with fuel evaporation. Hopefully related
to anti percolation fan not working properly. Unfortunately, the problem
hasn't reared it's ugly head. Still got the sneaky suspicion that Wheeler's
didn't quite put the car back together correctly.

    Hi Mark,
    
    My R5GTT suffers from the same oil gauge problem. The local Renault
    garage assured me that the gauge was at fault, and that I wasn't
    losing oil pressure. The symptom started exactly as you say, the
    gauge would dip under hard acceleration, but now it's got worse,
    and the needle flutters all over the place, all of the time. Sometimes
    doesn't register anything at all for long periods.
    
    I can see why car fleet specify 30 month/50000 mile leases. Mine's
    now 31 months and 54000 miles old, while I wait for the new car
    to arrive, and in the past two months I've gone through a new
    electronic ignition unit (240 ish quid) and a new alternator (100
    quid). More things are playing up since the 50000 mile mark than
    before - I guess this is a statistical probability.
    
    Pete

    
    Nasty noise under hard acceleration. Dropping oil pressure.
    
    Doesn't sound a healthy mix to me! :^(
    
    Maybe your 7000 rpm incident is finally rearing it's ugly head?
    
    My 5 GTT is now 31 months old and, aside from a rattle in the driver's
    door (I think it's a speaker or window motor wire come loose) the car
    is now running as well, if not better, than it ever did. I have,
    however, only done 30,500 miles so maybe I've got another 20,000ish
    more trouble free miles to enjoy?
    
    Mark

    At my last service (well actually they took the engine out), they
    replaced the sensor for my oil pressure gauge as it was registering
    below zero at high-speed and foot-to-the-floor.
    
    It seems ok now.
    
    mb

    RE: -4
    
    Percolation? I thought that was something you did to coffee...
    
    No, but seriously folks, BEWARE all Raider owners.
    I had a slight problem this morning - my heating fan didn't work.
    Thinking the fuse had blown I decided to check it. In a fit of
    conscientiousness I figured it would be a good idea to check the
    condition of ALL the fuses...this I did, one by one, however what
    hadn't occured to me was that cutting the power to the super-fangled
    stereo (RDS) in the car would activate the wonderful 'Philips Security
    Code System' - result, upon turning on the radio it says only one thing
    to me ... C O D E ?
    
    So what? you say .. get the code and tap it in - fine, but that's only
    possible IF YOU HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE CODE! It would seem the dealer whjo
    supplied the car "seems to have forgotten it, sir"
    
    Oh my God...
    
    Anyway, result is that the supplying dealer have now had to go directly
    to Philips, formally request that Philips release the code to them on
    official Renault headed paper, also stating Car Reg, Chassis No, Radio
    Serial No, Supplying Dealer, Owner, etc etc... the list goes on.
    
    Then, maybe, if all the details are to Philips satisfaction they MIGHT
    think about releasing the code...but not until tomorrow when they have
    ahd time to check all details.
    
    I'm impressed with the security going on around this, but it shouldn't
    really have happened in the first place! 
    
    The moral is - If you have a Raider make sure you have the radio's
    PASSPORT; and if you don't then get onto your dealer RIGHT NOW!
    
    Mark
    
    PS - Beware Philips no longer even tell Renault Customer Care (Swindon)
         the code number on original fitting - it's all up to the dealer to 
         sort out ... Therefore Lazy dealer = cock up (eg mine)
    

    You could always leave the radio in the freezer overnight!
    
    mb

    Actually,
    
    Already thought of that one (the local dealer here even suggested it!)
    but, unfortunately, on investigation it would seem these units are now
    built to withstand sub-zero temperatures! It just wasn't my day
    yesterday...
    
    Only one way to fix it - connect the power leads in reverse polarity,
    BANG!, one dead radio ... "Excuse me Mr. Renault, it's blown up now -
    can I have a new one ... under waranty?"
    
    Fat Chance!
    
    Mark.

    
    I am not that familiar with what's on the R5GTT front. Could someone
    please enlighten me?
    
    I haven't noticed any 5GTTs on VTX recently, can you still order one, 
    if you can, for how much longer?
    Is there an exact replacement for the Turbo, if so, what is it, in
    terms of price, engine and performance?
    
    If I have missed a previous note already covering these points please
    tell me, thanks.
    
    Tony
    
    
    
    
     

Here's a good reason for going for something less exotic - but better put
together.

My colleague at work has a 5GTE; less than 2 years old. He recently went on
holiday, and left his car in open. It was hot. Upon his return he's found that
all of the paint (Except on the tailgate - seems to be a different batch)
has faded really badly. It looks awful. I'm sure that T-cut will improve things
for a few months; but the oxidation is really bad...

Cheers

Steve

    
    Re .649
    
    And I've heard horror stories about BMW paintwork too.
    
    My car has spent a lot of time in the open in the last two summers
    (both pretty hot, or are you talking about 90+F temperatures?) and the
    paintwork still looks as good as new (when it's clean!).
    
    As you say the paint on the boot hasn't faded, I can't help but suspect
    that it was a faulty batch of paint to start with.
    
    You can't judge a type of car by just one example.
    
    Mark

    I'm thinking of trying some unleaded petrol in my R5 Turbo, has anyone
    else any experience on performance with unleaded petrol ?
    
    With the price of fuel going up with no visible end to the rise any
    saving on price helps .
    
    
    
                                 KR
    

This has been discussed many times before in this note.

The verdict is that you CAN occasionally run unleaded petrol in the R5GTT
without modification. *BUT* Renault say you can't. I imagine that they
encountered problems, and withdrew support. I can't recommend the use of
unleaded.

Surprisingly enough, I get no drop in performance, but an increase in
economy when I used unleaded.

Mark.

    
    The word from Renault is DON'T.
    
    The engine is a very old design and needs lead to keep the engine
    (valve seats?) lubricated. Also normal unleaded will not have
    a sufficient octane rating to keep the performance up to scratch.
    
    All in all, not an advisable thing to do.
    
    Re: The 5GTT availability
    
    The 5GTT is still available from Renault dealers (supposedly only
    in White and Tungsten, but try ordering whatever you like, there's
    bound to be a few around). The whole 5 range is being replaced soon
    by the Clio (lesser models at the Motor show I think) and the 16 valve
    model is expected next spring.
    
    Performance isn't known (by me anyway) but the bigger 19 with the same
    engine is expected to do 0-60 in 7.5 seconds and a top speed of 135
    mph so expect the Clio to be even quicker than the current 5GTT, which
    it'll need to be if Renault aren't to loose their title of best small
    hot-hatch. There are pictures of A Clio 16 valve in CAR magazine this
    month, but it isn't clear if the car shown will be the production model
    or is a rally special (hopefully the former as it looks great in the
    pictures - perhaps I'll buy another Renault after all!).
    
    Mark

    > be if Renault aren't to loose their title of best small hot-hatch. 

	Nicely slipped in there Mark, as the actress said to Bishop ! Funny
	how the "best small hot-hatch" differs from magazine to magazine.

	Gordon

    
    Re .654
    
    Well, last week(:^)), Autocar and Motor and Fast Lane magazine both rated 
    it as the best of the bunch as did What Car a while back and of course
    anyone who didn't make the mistake of buying a Peugeot would agree 
    too! :^)
    
    Mark

    The info i have on the clio is that the clio range will be indroduced
    in march next year but the 16v won't be available for about 12 months.
    
    Does anyone else know different ?
    
    The 19 16v sounds good, but i hate the shape.
    
    - Roy

    re .649
    
    I suspect it may be the paint colour - red dyes generally fade more
    than other colours. My R5GTT (red) had faded very badly on the bonnet
    and roof, but not on the sides. I assume that's because the bonnet
    and roof face the sun more !! I've not tried T-cutting it, but I
    would imagine that would restore much of the original colour.
    
    Pete

    
    Re. 657
    
    You've obviously NOT seen my car. :^)
    
    Mark

RE: .657  Yes, it is red! upon looking closer you're right - the roof and
bonnet are more faded than the doors/side panels. The tailgate is original
shade.

Steve

    
    Do you polish your cars?
    
    Mine normally gets polished when it gets washed and I haven't noticed
    any fading. In fact recently it was parked next to a G-reg red 5GTT
    and only the dents distinguished them :^).
    
    Mark

    That may well be the difference - my car has never seen a tin of
    polish in its life !! If that's the trick, what sort do you use,
    'cos my new car's gonna be red as well !!
    
    Pete

    Just ordinary wax polish (eh Turtlewax, Triplewax).
    
    A quick spray over and a rub. The car looks like new once that's
    done, even it is for just a few miles! :^)
    
    Mark

    Wax or polish will help for two reasons.  Except for "special" new car
    products, there is T-Cut in the wax or plolish.  Also they contain some
    UV filter.
    
    You may find another benefit from waxing your car, it will clean much
    more easily. 

    I used to use wax polish on my own car at least twice a year and i'm
    sure it helped to keep the body work in good condition.

    Now i have a company car, i wash it frequently, but have no intention of
    wasting my time and money on waxing it.

    Anyway previously my cars were several years old and in need of "loving
    care". As a company car is never more than 30 months old i would expect
    the paintwork to last at least that long without falling off. I've seen
    Pete's car though and was surprised at how badly faded it is, don't
    lose any sleep though Pete 'cos the BM's on its way !

    If the lease companies want their cars waxed they should provide
    valetting vouchers to get them professionally cleaned.

    - Roy

But wait a moment, isn't there a little bit left over in the 8p/mile for
people to wash their cars?

Mark (Currently trying to get more than 29.25 mpg on his car, and failing)

P.S. Don't believe these fanciful economy figures, I'm sure the gallons a
different size for them!

    
    I'm getting high 30s (36/37 mpg) out of my car at the moment.
    
    The slow traffic into Reading ensures that I never really get a 
    chance to thrash the car properly!
    
    Mark

    Mark,
    
    I'm not getting HIGH 30's, but my Raider (now that the radio is fixed,
    and the windscreen doesn't leask anymore, and...) gives between 32 and
    35 mpg ALL the time - hard drivin' reduces that to 30 at the least.
    Pretty good in my opinion - after all, who has an R5GTT for its fuel
    economy???
    
    Love it, it's great!
    
    Mark.

    
    The BBC's Motor Show program on Sunday (which seemed to be 90% made up
    of Thursday's program - what a bl**dy con if you stayed in to watch it!)
    they commented that the existing 5 will continue to be made in GT Turbo
    and Campus form for the immediate future.
    
    Presumably the majority of Clios are available NOW and the 16 valve
    next March. Does that sound reasonable?
    
    Mark
    

    
>>    Presumably the majority of Clios are available NOW and the 16 valve
>>    next March. Does that sound reasonable?

 a Renault rep at the motorshow told me that the full range of Clios (inc. 16v)
will be available from March 91.

there was a 16v 19 on the stand & it looked quite smart for a 19,
the performance figures for it seem quite impressive: 0-60 7.4 secs 135+mph


...art

    
    When is the 19 16v going to be available?
    
    Mark

Mark,

  I called Renault U.K. yesterday and asked that question. The answer was any
day now.

  Have you any Idea what you are going to replace your 5 with yet ? Ive been
looking for a couple of months and cant find  anything that is as much fun or
such good value.

	Barrie

    
    Well, I have a nasty feeling that I'm going to dig deep and get a 16
    Valve Calibra, but on the other hand I might get a Citroen BX GTi,
    a Renault 19 16 valve, A Clio 16 valve, a 16 valve Alfa 33 or something
    else altogether! :^)
    
    As you say, finding something as affordable and as much fun is VERY
    difficult.
    
    Mark

    According to Top Gear last night when Chris Boffey was putting the new
    clio through its paces (what a great job hes got) he mentioned that
    when it is released next March, the lower model R5's and the R5GTT will
    continue to be available.

    Doesn't this conflict with what the Renault rep said at the motor show
    (see .669) about the whole clio range being available. I understood
    from the programme that only a few models in range would be released in
    the Spring.

    Did anyone else see this and got any comments (apart from how bland the
    clio looks)

    - Roy

    
    This seems to confirm what some sources have said. The general
    concensus appears to be that by March 1991 the 16 valve WILL be
    available and the 5GTT will go out of production then and the whole
    range will be introduced together into Britain.
    
    The only doubt I have is that the 16 valve 19 STILL isn't available
    and the 19 range must be a couple of years old now.
    
    Still, as far as I'm concerned, the later they stop the 5 GTT the
    better.
    
    Mark
    
    

    The 19 16v is available in France as hatchback and Chamade. Also
    announced is the R19 TXi (107bhp/190km/h) which has the same
    body-styling kit as the 16v. 

    
    Did I see a Renault 19 16S at Brands Hatch yesterday?
    
    It was unbadged (except for the R19 badges) and had a quite aggressive
    spoiler kit comprising a tail spoiler, wheel arch extensions and front
    and rear underbumper spoilers.
    
    It looked pretty good, but was it the 19 16S or just a tarted up 19
    1.4? Oh yes, it was Dutch registered.
    
    Mark

    
    I sympathise, its so hard to tell with these family hatchbacks... ;-)
    
    Bill.

    Anybody see the article in yesterday's Times about the convertible R5
    GTT from Radbourne racing?
    
    Looked really good - but I coudln't really believe the price - 10.5K,
    Weldale in Reading are selling a normal (if you could ever say that
    about a turby) white one for the same price.
    
    Anyone figure this out?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    
    
    Quite right Bill,
    
    They don't stick out like a sore-thumb to the Police.
    
    Mark :^)

>>    Anybody see the article in yesterday's Times about the convertible R5
>>    GTT from Radbourne racing?
    
>>    Looked really good - but I coudln't really believe the price - 10.5K,

	I saw it. Reckon the price was a misprint, but someone could always
	try. It is apparently 'factory approved' since it originated as
	a factory funded project in Belgium, but Renault decided not to
	persue mass marketing so it's available as a conversion. It said
	that there's 200lb of reinforcing in it.

	Just what M Saxby would want for his next car perhaps.

	-John

    
    I remember seeing one of these at Thruxton once at a 5 GTT race. 
    
    It was a very nicely produced car, but I was told that it was NOT
    Renault approved. I saw one at Motorfair last year as well on the 
    Radbourne stand.
    
    Cost of this conversion (then) was about 3.5k.
    
    As you say 10.5 is more like the basic car list price.
    
    Mark

    I saw the 19 16V at the motor show but they had the car fenced in and
    the bonnet down, and refused to lift the bonnet, must have something to
    hide ?
    
    
                             KR

Probably the lack of an engine.

    Further to earlier comments regarding R5GTT engines 'dying' when hot, an
    
    article on these cars (in 'Performance Car' magazine) also found the problem
    
    
    In their case, they were using the 'Raider' version of the car (the one
    
    with tarty paint job etc.) - so this was a recent model, which one would
    
    expect to have the cooling fan mod. mentioned earlier.
    
    
    Their description of the fault :-
    
    "when the engine was hot ... on occasion it would die when
     trying to pull away from rest"
    
    Seems like Renault haven't fixed it yet, then.
    
    John

    
    Re .686
    
    In reality this is rarely (if ever) a problem.
    
    I must admit I wouldn't fancy driving one in London every day (although
    many people do), but I wouldn't fancy driving in London full stop!
    
    Driving to DEC Park every day, I have not had a problem with fuel
    vapourisation. This is probably a more noticeable problem if you are
    not used to the car, I tend to blip the throttle before I move off in
    heavy traffic where the car has got hot.
    
    Mark

I've just got a 'G' reg R5GTT to replace my 'F'. The 'G' one is noticeably
better (although my previous car had a hard time, getting smashed up by
thieves, and repaired badly).

The anti-percolation fan only runs for about 10 mins (instead of 40!), and
is a bit smoother when hot.

The only thing that isn't a patch on my old car is the quality of the gear-
change. It just isn't as slick normally, and when the car has been on the
motorway for a while is really difficult to change to 3rd or 2nd. The gear
really sticks.

I've now got the really difficult problem of reporting this to a garage,
where the problem is very subjective, and difficult to repeat! Can anyone
suggest a good approach with these awkward garages ?

Mark.

    Try the direct approach..... tell them that you are telling them there
    is s problem and would they please get on and fix it. When they have
    fixed it, let them know whether they have managed to achieve a fix to
    your level of satisfaction, particularly if you are able to mutter
    phrases like "my friends got one like this and it's better". If they
    haven't achieved a satisfactory fix give them a seconmd chance. If that
    doesn't work, ask them to arrange for a Renault representative to come
    and examine the car. If that doesn't work try phrases like "The ads say
    Renault builds a better car: I bet they can't find it" with some
    customers around. If you go to Wheelers that usually works.
    
    Rule number 1 in life:  The customer is ALWAYS right.
    Rule number 2 in life:  When the customer is wrong, see Rule Number 1.
    

    re: .688
    
    Mark is this the red R5GTT with the tow bar and remote alarm ?
    
    I borrowed this over a weekend when it was available for takeover.
    
    The 2 main problems (3 if you count the lack of headroom 'cos of
    the leccy sunroof) were i) Rattles in the dashboard, presumably
    because it was dismantled twice to install the electrics for the
    tow bar indy tell-tale light and the alarm active light) ii) the
    clutch was extremely stiff.
    
    Consequently this put off.
    
    - Roy

    
    Re .690
    
    Have you driven an other 5GTTs?
    
    The clutch is always stiff. My wife finds that the worst thing about
    driving the car. It doesn't put her off much though!
    
    Mark

    Re: .691

    Yes, I have driven other R5GTTs, one other one had a noticeably heavy
    clutch. However, I thought this was an exception rather than the rule.

    I stand corrected.

    - Roy

    
    Re .692
    
    Roy,
    
    I wasn't trying to correct you, it's just that if you weren't used
    to the 5 GTT's clutch it may have felt very heavy. No doubt this
    one was worse than usual (I suspect a lot of it is due to how they've
    adjusted the cable, as mine seems to vary from service to service!).
    
    Mark

 
    Mark,

    Is the car you have the one I identified in .690 ?

    If so, I also experienced the same problem with the windscreen wipers
    as discussed in note #1259. (It sounds as if I'm picking on this car,
    I'm not, honest. I thought it ran exremely well and looked after by
    the previous driver). Have you noticed this ?

    - Roy

Hi,

Yes, it is the same as the one you drove (G746 ALK).

There is a lack of headroom, and the dash does squeak (Think I'll try the
WD40).

The clutch is just as heavy as my old car, but I don't mind that.

The one difference, really is that the gearchange just isn't as good, it
feels a lot 'stickier', and after a long time at motorway speeds is actually
quite difficult to put into 2nd or 3rd (enough to spoil slowing down
manoeuvres at roundabouts).

The idle jet was blocked, when I had it, but that was cured at the 12,000
mile service.

Mark.

P.S. I'll never go to Newbury again!

    Re: Afew back
    
    The fuel vapourisation problem on the Raider as reported in Performance
    Car.
    
    I also have a Raider and must admit a couple of times I've noticed
    exactly the problem described. Having waited at lights or something for
    a minute or two the engine can, at times, seem to die ... I hadn't
    realised what it was. Must try your trick of tapping the accelerator,
    Mark.
    
    Not very good I suppose, something I shall haveto get used to though,
    by the sound of it.
    
    Another thing - sometimes when I'm on the motorway, if I find I have to
    change down I've noticed the clutch 'click' as I put my foot on it. Is
    this a badly seated cable? It's going in to the garage tomorrow anyway
    for a windscreen leak - I'll tell them about it and see if they can fix
    it. More on that one when I get it back.
    
    Watch this space...
    
    Mark.

Here's my clutch cable experiences!!

When I first got mine it made some strange scraping noises when
changing gear. Took it to a Renault garage who pulled out the cable,
SLAPPED loads of grease on the cable and put it back. 

A week later it started again. So I just pulled the cable around until
it stopped, the cable did seem tight to me.

I rent a house from a Renault garage owner, one morning as I came out,
he looked at my car and said "Broken any cluthc cables yet?"

Sums it up really!

Greg

RE .697

>>   Another thing - sometimes when I'm on the motorway, if I find I have to
>>    change down I've noticed the clutch 'click' as I put my foot on it. Is
>>    this a badly seated cable? It's going in to the garage tomorrow anyway
>>    for a windscreen leak - I'll tell them about it and see if they can fix
>>    it. More on that one when I get it back.
  
 The clutch on the GT Turbo is self adjusting. Occasionally when I depress my
clutch pedal there is a loud "twang" and the cable seems to go slack, when I
lift my foot back of the clutch it bites much sooner than it did previously
( and usually manages to catch me out ! ). This is extremely annoying but 
although I've told Weldale motors to fix it three or four times but their fix
never seems to last for more than a week !

   I still love the car though.


	Barrie.

AAAAAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!


Driving home last night, wet, windy and dark, pull in at some road
works to let some one else by...


B A N G


No clutch (cable gone I suspect)


:^((

Question: IF this had happenned MILES from nowhere how could I have got
into gear to struggle to a phone?


Greg

well, how DID you get home?

re .700

many years ago the clutch rod broke in my Morris Minor, and I had the
same problem. The AA came out, but couldn't do anything (this was
before Relay)

The nice man advised to start the car, and get the engine warm.
Then switch off, engage second or third, and start the car.
After much lurching, the car started, and I drove home in third,
being very careful as I approached traffic lights and roundabouts!

With some cars, you can change up and down without using the clutch
(a friend of mine practises this on Hertz hire cars!).

I woudn't advise this in heavy traffic, though....

Peter.

I read about this happening in this months Performance Car; a guy that runs a 5
had it happen to him & he stated that because the gearchange is so smooth
normally he could continue to change gear without the clutch...

doesn't this mean that bit of gearbox are just crunching together; can't do much
for g'box longevity


also read that some police instructors change gear without the clutch by using
a certain amount of revs that eliminates the need for the clutch - is this true?



...art (with clutch cable intact)

    
    When mine went it went at a road junction. I stuck it in first and
    started it up and off we went. Sure enough with a bit of baulking the
    car would change gears going up and coming down simply required a blip
    on the throttle as I changed down.
    
    The traffic was fairly heavy, but I only had to go about 1 mile to home
    and then another couple in the rush hour to the garage the following
    morning.
    
    Mark
    
    PS I once worked for a software house where we had (old style) Renault
    5s and 12s (Remember them!). We frequently used to drive up to 50 miles
    without using the clutches just for fun, and it never really seemed to
    do them much harm.

    When I were a lad...  I had a Citroen CX Athena on which the clutch
    cable broke.  On this car, and many others I suspect, if the revs
    are constant you can pull it out of gear without the clutch.  Changing
    up meant just dropping the revs about 500 rpm and easing the gear
    level into gear.  Changing down was more difficult, but the gearbox
    would tell you if you got the revs wrong.  I drove the 8 miles to
    the garage like this.
    
    Oh yes, as stated in a previous note, to get started, put it in
    a low gear and start the car.  I used first because I knew I could
    change gear once the car was going.
    
    TP

    ... it really does go BANG doesn't it!
    
    mine went on the M1 near Northampton at 21:00 on a Sunday night, but
    luckily we get National Breakdown on the company car scheme 'cos there
    was no was i was going to attempt the 60-odd miles to Brum without my
    left peddle.
    
    When the garage fixed the cable, they also replaced the clutch pedal
    saying that it was a known problem, so i would advise anyone with a
    5GTt over about a year old to get it checked on the next service.
    
    Several years ago, when i had my yellow Hillman Imp, i got into the
    habit of always changing gear without the clutch, which is fine until
    you think about it - then CRUNCH!
    
    mb

Yeah!!!

It's fixed.


The clutch is a million times less stiff now, quite strange, and could
take some getting used to.



Greg

That's because the old one was binding up inside the case making it stiff.  That
put extra strain on the connections and the cable causing it to snap.

Dave

    RE. 703
    
    My father was a police instructer about 10 years ago and when he taught
    me to drive he used this technique to demonstrate the correct (meaning
    smooth) way to change gear - although in normal driving he always used
    the clutch.  Basically all you do is adjust the revs in a similar way
    to the old double de-clutch technique used in the days before
    synchromesh.  He could achieve consistant graunch free gear changes in
    almost any car whereas I have only achieved a consistant success in old
    rear wheel drive Fords.
    
    When I was a kid the clutch on our family Morris broke and he drove
    from Windemere to Lowestoft without a clutch - this being in the days
    of A and B roads.  In short if you are skilled at this (which I am not)
    you can do it without any fear of b***ering your gear box.
    
    Regards
    
    Nigel

Driving without a clutch, changing gear by getting the revs right works fine
while you're moving, but what happens if you need to stop at (eg) a junction?

Scott

    
    Re .710
    
    If you stop at a junction, turn off the engine, put the car in low
    gear and start it back up again when you want to pull away.
    
    Tis easy!
    
    Mark

    
    re -1
    
    You hope that your battery is big enough to start the car in gear(?!)
    
    Rob

    
    Rob,
    
    Not a problem in a R5 GTT. My clutch cable broke at night in the rain,
    so I had the wipers and the lights going!
    
    Mark

    Can i swap batteries then!
    
    The major problem that i have had with my R5GTt is the battery going
    flat.
    
    I have had a new battery, the wires tested etc.
    
    I reckon the problem is the fact that the coffee-fan goes on for
    several days after switching the engine off!
    
    mb

    Stopping isn't the problem, getting moving again is.  You have to hope
    that when you stop, the car is pointing down a hill,  or there's    
    someone around to push.  Otherwise you can always try starting in second or
    third on the starter motor as mentioned in an earlier reply.
    
    There's a bit of luck involved, but then this isn't the sort of thing you
    would do unless your clutch is malfunctioning and you want to save the
    tow in fee.
    
    One important trick to learn is to time your approaches to rounderbouts
    and fork junctions in order to minimize the number of times you have
    to stop during the journey - this I believe is taught as part of the
    advanced driving course.
    
    Regards
    
    Nigel
       

Hi,

I recommend the new Renault (The Coffee Fan only runs for 10 minutes, stops,
and then for some reason runs for another 2 minutes after about 5 minutes).

However, even with my old R5GTT with the coffee fan running for days!, I
never had a problem with the battery. I don't know how, but the battery
seems to last forever, there must be an amazingly powerful alternator in the
car!

However, unlike my old Renault, the engine on this car seems a bit rougher,
and you get a puff of smoke when changing gear. Is this enough to get the
garage to do something, before it runs out of warranty?

As well as that, the clever sods at Uxbridge (suppliers of this car) managed
to lose a Torx screw when putting the dashboard back on (I was trying to trace
a rattle). Presumable only Renault at Uxbridge will be able to do something
about it.

Mark.

    Mark, Hampshire Tool and Bolt in Basingstoke might just stock Torx
    fastenings. Give them a bell or visit them. Address in Phone book.

    Hi People,
    
    Anyone out there had any trouble with the throttle sticking at about
    2000 RPM when stopped at junctions. If you stick your toe under the
    accelerator and lift it goes back to normal.
    
    Any sugestions?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    Yup,
    
    i noticed that, sticking anywhere between 1500 and 2000 rpm.
    
    s'pose summat needs greasing or oiling - service coming up soon so i
    will have it checked.
    
    mb

    Ours is sticking at just over 1500 - seems to be a common problem.
    
    Sue
    

    
    *NOW HEAR THIS, NOW HEAR THIS ...............*
    
    This problem is potentially *VERY* dangerous indeed !
    
    I encountered this some 6 months ago and the problem first manifested 
    itself exactly as some have described in the last few replies.
    
    BUT, after about 3 weeks, I was entering a motorway from a slip
    road, put my foot down hard(ish) and .... one throttle jammed
    wide open !!!!
    
    In a car like the R5GTT this is no fun, I can tell you!
    Firstly, gear changes are a joke under such circumstances, unless
    you like bending rev counter needles - secondly, stopping the car
    by switching off the engine probably does the turbo no good either.
    I've heard many stories of how to get home with a broken clutch
    cable, but have you ever tried it with a jammed throttle ?
    
    <No Jokes about Cruise Control please, it aint funny!>
    
    In my case, once stopped, I was able to position the throttle arm 
    on the carb to a slightly open position and limp home on constant 
    low revs, about 3000 I think.
    
    To assist anyone with investigating this problem, in
    my case the cable had frayed at the accelerator pedal end, very
    near the solder nipple. The strands had then doubled back and were
    catching on the inside of the cable sleeve. Check this out, and
    replace if necessary -  forget lubricating the cable (unless there
    is no sign of wear at all) get a new one ASAP.
    
    I had mine replaced at home by an RAC guy, who made me up a new 
    cable - in his opinion the problem was the routing of the cable
    being too complex and he also added that it was the one of the
    hardest cable replacements he had ever done!
    
    Graham Warnes

    re -1
    
    WOW!
    
    So I know have to worry about this as well as my clutch cable.
    
    :^(
    
    Would make for an interesting comment to an officer of the law
    
    "Sorry I was doing 130mph in a 30 mph zone my accelerator stuck"
    
    ;^))
    
    Greg

    The problem is it's french!
    
    
    No, I'm not getting at the french, but all car's designed in europe are
    designed to be left hand drive. Only afterwards do they consider the
    RHD market. By then it's too late and the result is convoluted cables
    and linkages. (e.g. the escort/orion with the brake servo on the
    passenger side, and a great big rod transmitting the effort from the
    brake pedal.!)
    
    Richard

  
    

      This is a sad sad day. Due to an increase on the family front, I have 
 now found my 5GT Turbo a little small. Therefore, if anyone's current lease
 is due to finish & they are interested in taking mine over,(sob sob..!)
 please contact me by mail on KERNEL::MCCOMBE or phone 7833-3654. The car is 
black, has extra rear speakers, an electric tilt & slide sunroof, costs 99 
pounds/year on top of supplement & has 18 months of the lease to run.

Duncan.

    re -1
    
    Duncan see the last Fiesta RS-Turbo note - you're extra's might put
    another R5 owner on the road.
    
    ;^)

    Seen in some motoring mag recently:
    
    Renault - the only cars which start to rust while still in the sales
    brochures!
    

    
    re.-2
    
    Don't worry, I think I know the the person you are talking about.
    We work in the same building & a test drive has already been arranged.
    The only problem is the sunroof lowering the head clearance which
    sounds as though it may put a damper on any negotiations. Thanks
    for the tip though.
    
    D. McC.
    

    
    Question for all you R5 GTT Buffs.  
    
    I noticed that early in this note there was the case of the R5 that
    produced a high pitched noise from the venting system, at speeds that
    are somewhat in the excess of the legal limit.  The question is, what
    is the cause.  I have an R5 GTT that sounds like the stereo is
    suffering interference of the worst kind, when the speedo hits 90ish
    (of course this is only on the German Autobahns!!). But it isn't the
    stereo!!.
    
    Over to you!!.

there could be leaves & other debris in the air vent intake system
(front of screen) which causes this:
bits that get there dry up then can act as 'whistles' - try looking & clearing
this up (try mashing up leaves that you can't get a hold of)


however it could be something else altogether...

    
    My R5GTT made the most awful screeching sound at high speed, anywhere
    from 90mph to 110mph (again, in Germany of course ;^) ), dependent on
    the windspeed and direction.
    
    After must investigation, which nearly included me climbing out of the
    sunroof onto the bonnet at 100mph, i concluded that i didn't know what
    was making the noise.
    
    Anyway, after having my windscreen replaced the screeching went away,
    thus i guess that the noise was due to a poorly fitted screen.
    
    Check the seal around the edges, and whether the glass is flush with
    the pillars etc.
    
    mb

    I was in touch with a couple of Renault dealers yesterday and posed the
    following question :

    "How much longer will the Renault 5 GT Turbo be available ?"

    Dealer 1 : We are currently putting in our last orders, they will cease
               production next month, so you better put your order in soon.

    Dealer 2 : Despite the new clio range the 5 turbo will continue to be
               made until the  end of '91.

    Me:        There seems to be conficting views on this.

    Dealer 2 : Well we haven't heard anything direct from Renault in France
               on this matter, but thats the latest.

    Does anyone know for sure how long this model will be available in the
    UK ?

    I guess the best place to go for an answer in Renault UK, anyone got
    their number ?

    - Roy

    Renault UK HQ is 081-992-3481.
    
    Renault Customer Care Dept in Swindon is 0793-513888.

it just HAD to happen didn't it...?

driving around town yesterday I noticed that the clutch felt a little 'strange'
it (or the pedal) was making a few quite clicking & squeeking noises & the 
take-up seemed a bit abrubt, but I continued to drive on regardless...

until it made a louder clicking noise; I slowed down, decluched; "TWANG"
oh dear the clutch cable seems to have snapped :-(

luckily i was just driving into dec park (just over the first road hump) so I 
was in a pretty safe situation...

however as i'm sure you all know, us 5gtt drivers really love our cars lots &
can easily forgive minor quibbles such as loss of gears etc etc...   :-)


your starter for 10:
anyone know how easy/difficult it is to replace a clutch cable ?

bonus points:
anyone know how easy/difficult it is to replace a clutch cable on a 5gtt?


thanks...

...art

    
    It's usually really easy to replace a clutch cable, but when I had 
    a quick look, I couldn't find the routing for the 5GTT cable anywhere!
    
    Let me know if you find it!
    
    Mark

    art,
    
    after my clutch cable snapped (right hand lane M1), the Renault garage
    replaced not only the cable, but the clutch pedal as well, which had a
    design fault.
    
    It may be worthwhile letting Renault do the work, thus fixing the
    problem as well as the symptom, especially if you are still under
    warranty!
    
    mb

re .736

my car's about 4 years old & i assumed that the cable would have snapped
(before I became its owner) and had this modification made...

but I seem to be wrong


I wonder if Renault will pay for this fix if it is a known design problem
they should really have recalled the cars for this modification - it could
be quite dangerous


...art

  Re: Clutch Probs...

  Both my friends and my clutch cable have snapped!!, both with approx the
  same mileage ,ie, 11000 miles (mainly motor way driving).
  We had the same symptoms, these were clicking and creaking sounds before
  the final breakage occured.
  The first thing the RAC guy said was "Don't tell me its the clutch!!",
  he was well aware of the design problem. Apparently the cable takes such
  a complicated route, stress areas therefore occur. Due to this complex setup
  a special length cable is required, so it might be an idea to carry a spare
  one with you .
  OK it could be dangerous, but you can tell by the early warnng signs,otherwise
  I suggest get the cable changed every 10000 miles. (The old FORD XR2's use
  to suffer the same problem, but they would dump the whole clutch assembley!)

  Yours as always,

  Stewart Piesley @HHL  
  

.738>>   Both my friends and my clutch cable have snapped!!

Well you can always replace a clutch cable, but how do you go about
repairing two broken friends? Did you try the Samaritans?

;^)

can any kind person tow my 5 (in dec prk) to the Renault dealer in Reading?

I'll make suitable donations to beer funds... etc etc

failing that has anyone got a tow rope I could borrow?

thanks...

...art


tel. 7 830 4032

    art,
    
    How about a "this is disgusting, every R5 Turbo goes through this
    problem, why don't you fix it " kind of call to Renault?
    
    
    
    Greg

Greg,
I phoned Renault customer care (swindon) & said this, but they said that 
this problem is "very rare", and that no mods were made to the clutch pedal,
However they did say that I could try & pass on the bill to them & they *may*
consider paying for the work.

So I'll try that...

what I could do with is some help backing up my claim that it is a _common_
problem; so could folks that had one (or more) cables snap on them send me
a mail (VOGON::ATWAL / Art Atwal @REO) with a few details (reg. no., milage &
age of car when it happened) 

many thanks...


...art

    
    My clutch cable went on New Year's Eve, after 13,500 miles.  I managed
    to drive it from Wokingham to Weldale Earley on the wednesday morning. 
    The guy in service there said it was a common (!) problem.
    
    Seems that the instances just amongst readers of this notesfile suggest 
    that the occurence is not "very rare".
    
    
    Nev.

>I phoned Renault customer care (swindon) & said this, but they said that 
>this problem is "very rare", and that no mods were made to the clutch pedal,

This could be because the Renault place only recently opened in Swindon, so
they probably haven't had too many cars through yet...

Try writing a snotty letter to the General Manager in France :-)

    
    They've been there for a couple of years now at least.
    
    Mark

    
>    They've been there for a couple of years now at least.
    
Not as a whole complete, all services available, site...The last bit only
opened a couple of months ago...I remember reading about it in the Star.
(freebee paper in Swindon for the uninitiated :-) )

...it's a monstrosity, that building...still it helps to orientate onself ;-)

well, emergency over, i got it towed to Weldale & it should be back on the road
tonight!

...art

    
    I wrote a note a few replies back, about my throttle cable snapping -
    in my case the RAC were able to make up a cable at the roadside. I just
    wonder whether you could have avoided having to get a tow by calling
    someone like the RAC out ?  The method used to replace cables in this
    way is :
    
    Detach cable ends from whatever they're attached to, snip off the
    nipples (painful, huh ? :-)) pull out the kn***ered cable (with
    pliers if necessary) leaving the outer in place.  Then route through
    a new piece of cable with lots of grease/lubricant. Fix temporary
    ends to the cable & reattach to fixtures. Bingo!  
    
    I've still got the temporary throttle cable on my car, but make
    regular checks on it's condition just in case.
    
    No problems with clutch cable, after 24500 miles - *BUT*
    
    1) Nearside electric window doesn't function (2nd time)
    
    2) Tracking/wheel alignment seems to go out all the time.
    
    3) Vibration at speeds above 80mph (on the racetrack of
       course) - this isn't a wheel balance problem so I think
       the drive train is perhaps worn/damaged perhaps ?
    
    4) Numerous rattles - some sorted out with WD40
    
    5) Battery has just about had it, plates are badly warped
       I think keeping the fan going for hours has taken it's 
       toll !
    
    I still think it's a great little car though !
    
    
    Graham Warnes

            <<< MARVIN::DISK$TOOLS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< CARS_UK conference >-
================================================================================
Note 1343.0                 Renault 5 help needed !!                     1 reply
RDGE13::MADGE                                        18 lines  15-JAN-1991 12:07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi,
    
    I've a problem with a Renault 5 with a dodgy clutch. I know very little
    about the car itself but apparently the whole clutch needs replacing
    and will cost about 230 pounds.
    
    The clutch slips when accelerating and wonder whether or not this price
    is realistic ?  Would it be cheaper to replace the whole clutch or
    could I just get away with replacing certain bits ?
    
    Could somebody explain how the clutch works even ???   Or any
    alternatives or mechanics I could try to get a resonable quote ?
    
    By the Way the car is 1985 b reg if that helps !!
    
    Regards
    
    Donna 

================================================================================
Note 1343.1                 Renault 5 help needed !!                      1 of 1
VOGON::ATWAL "Don't dream it, be it"                 11 lines  15-JAN-1991 12:15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
was this quote from a Renault dealer or someone else?

you could try the Lucas (?) place on the Basingtoke rd (I seem to recall 
that they also fit clutches.

there are places in london that do clutches at quite cheap prices (using
genuine manufacturers parts) they're called something along the lines of
Quick Clutch (you know what I mean)


...art

Your Renault 5 has a single plate dry clutch, like 99.9% of cars on the market.
There are two major components to the clutch, the friction plate, and the clutch 
cover.

The friction plate is a flat(ish) metal disc with a band of friction material
rivetted to the outer edge of both faces. In the centre of the disc is a splined
hole which locates the splined input shaft to the gearbox.

The clutch cover is a metal 'bowl' that bolts to the rear face of the engine 
flywheel and clamps the friction plate between itself and the flywheel. Inside
the clutch cover are the pressure plate, which does the actual clamping, and 
the pressure spring (usually diaphragm these days) which holds the plate against
tthe friction disc. The gearbox input shaft goes through an opening in the 
centre of the clutch cover.

                                __ | - flywheel
               clutch cover - / || |
                             /   | |
                             |   | |
      g/box input shaft ===========
                             |   | |
                             \   | |
                              \ || |
                                -- |

When the clutch pedal is released, the pressure spring forces the pressure
plate towards the engine, and the friction plate is clamped against the face of 
the flywheel. Engine rotation is then transmitted directly through to the
gearbox. When the clutch pedal is depressed, the pressure spring pulls the
pressure plate away from the friction plate ( by about 0.1"), allowing the 
friction plate on the splined shaft to rotate independently of the flywheel and
allowing you to change gear much more easily and to stop the car without
stalling the engine!

Clutch slip is usually cased by a problem with the friction plate, either it's
worn out and the friction linings are now so thin that they cannot be 
effectively clamped by the pressure plate against the flywheel, or it's been 
contaminated by oil leaking from the engine or the gearbox. Although the former
can sometimes be cured by just replacing the friction plate, quite often the
material gets so worn that the rivets score either or both of the pressure plate
or the flywheel. This means a new clutch cover, and if you're really unlucky
you'll need the flywheel refaced.

If the slip is caused by oil contamination, then you need to cure the oil leak
as well.

Many front wheel drive cars with "short" gearboxes don't have a spigot bearing
as the input shaft is a lot shorter and doesn't need supporting at the end.

Or so I'm told...

Scott

    I had a MR Clutch new Clutch a R6TL a few years ago.
    
    First Go they Damaged the Radiator.
    Second attempt a OIL seal they forgot to replace caused the new clutch
    to be ruined.
    
    Pay Cheap.... Get Cheap ...
    
                          KR

    Yeah, near the football ground.
    
    RE: .756
    Wow, sounds like I got off lightly!

    
    Well, I'm no longer a Renault 5 GT Turbo owner. After 3 very happy
    years I decided to part with E399 GPK before the inevitable
    depreciation in monetary value and condition began.
    
    I suspect the arrival of the Clio 16 Valve will do little for the price
    of Turbo 5s unless it gets panned, and it can't be far away, as I did a
    double take of a Clio (TXE, I think) on Friday on the M27.
    
    In three years I had 1 electrical fault (Renault's fault), 1 clogged
    fuel filter (My fault I suspect) and 1 broken clutch cable (Mattia's 
    fault I still think). In addition some g*t broke in and stole the
    radio, but all in all the car has never failed to be enjoyable and
    despite the rattles that have begun to set in in the last few weeks
    (design feature?) it has been comfortable and reliable. I suspect that
    my car was a good example (having seen large gaps between dash panels 
    on other people's 5s), but after 36,000+ miles I felt I got a good
    trade in price for the car and it certainly stood up well considering
    the knowing smirks people gave me when I bought the car.
    
    So, if you want a fast, reliable and highly enjoyable little car, don't
    be a 90's Capri driver and buy a Pug like everyone else, dare to be
    different and get a Renault!
    
    Mark

Just picked up my Renault after a service, and noticed a newspaper
cutting stating that the new Renault Clio was 'Car of the Year 1991'.
What was more interesting was a line saying that 30% of all Renault 5
sales are now of Turbo's.


Greg

    Hi Guys,
    
    Hold on to your Turbo's out there - I had mine stolen on Friday night
    from outside my house in Reading. There wasn't much left of it when the
    police found it on Sunday morning - completely gutted inside, they even
    took the carpet! Funny thing is they left the engine, wheels and even
    the battery which are the first bits I would have thought would go.
    
    Police reckoned it was a professional job by the way it had been
    stripped and then towed to where it was dumped. What do the police do
    at night if they can miss a car with no doors, lights, seats, bonnet...
    etc being towed through the streets steered by a ******* sitting on a
    milk crate. Pity they are not as professional as the people who nicked
    it!!!
    
    The question is now when do they come back for the other Turby? 
    
    Anyone know how bad the damage has to be before fleet will write it off
    as I dont fancy driving around in the equivalent of a kit car if they
    rebuild it! Also what sort of replacement are you entitled to for the
    weeks while they are deciding what to do with it as I dont fancy
    driving a group B rent a wreck.
    
    Look after them out there (try a shotgun and sleeping bag),
    
    Spike. 
                 

    Spike,
    
    As the hire car you will get will be paid for by DEC not the lease co.,
    it will be your manager's decision what car you get.
    The new expense guidlines indicate that you should get an equivelant
    car, but going by experience I would think it unlikely that your
    manager would want to hit his cost centre for more than a group B car
    without a good reason.
    
    - Roy

    The car you are entitled to is the nearest Avis can get to what you
    have leased. I guess you might just get a warmish 205, or maybe a
    Fiesta XR2i.
    
    Steve

    Steve, the way I see it is that what group car you get is a local
    decision, and what car you get in that group is whatever Avis have
    available at the time.
    
    - Roy

    My car was recently in the garage for extensive body work repair.
    
    I 'ordered' a group B hire car - received a group F but was paying for
    the ordered group B.
    
    As the previous note says I believe it to simply be a case of what
    they've got left.
    
    I remember hiring a car in Valbonne in once, a group A, and being given
    a BMW 520i.
    
    Rich

    Lucky ? 520i !

    Note the contract with AVIS means we get at least a  group up from the
    one we order automatically. Thus when I ordered a 'C' I got an 'F',
    when I've ordered a 'B' I always get a 'C'.
    
    Richard

Now that my car is being repaired after AVIS tried to jack my car up on the
side skirts. I chickened out, and got a Grade C hire car rather than Grade K
(apparently XR2i).

Apparently, I claim off expenses, and insurance recoup the hire car cost.

Mark

    Why were AVIS jacking your car up at all?
    
    Just curious.
    
    Steve

    How many people have the same problem as me .

    While my windscreen was frozen up I accidentally switched on the 
    wipers, the result of this is that now when I turn off the wipers 
    they  stay half way across the windscreen, and the intermittent 
    wipe is now continuous.

    I spoke to the garage about this and they said they had countless
    examples of the same thing , and the problem was a blown fuse .


                     KR

P.S. Where is the fuse box ?

> P.S. Where is the fuse box ?

Have you looked in your car manual, that should tell you where it is, and what
fuses it needs.

    Re .773
    
    This looks to me like you have stuffed your self park mechanism; this
    basically is an extra circuit which by-passes the on/off switch when
    the wiper is not in its parked position. I would be surprised if this
    has a separate fuse; it is normally integral with the wiper motor.
    
    The intermittent gizmo is different, and I don't understand that, but
    again I would be surprised to see it on a separate fuse.
    
    Steve

fuse box is under the glove compartment

RE: a while back.

AVIS jacked up the car to change the tyres!

Mark.

    I'm sorry Mark if I'm missing something but I thought AVIS rented cars.	
    I didn't think they did any work to them.
    
    - Roy (Still can't figure out why they were jacking yer car up)

Sorry, you're right, I mean't ATS!

   I took the opportunity to pop my car into my local main dealer this 
morning to get a cold start problem sorted out .
I told them that it might need tuning and that it is a PHH car , the 
reponse was that PHH would not let them tune the car and I would have 
to wait till the next service .
I got around this by telling them that the car was serviced by them 
only two months ago anyway, so surely it's a problem with the last 
service it had .

Is this true ? You have to wait for the car to break down before you 
can an off-plan check up ?


                          KR
P.S. If you undertake a repair yourself, how do PHH view this ?

    re.-1
    
    I would think if your car needs tuning because the engine was not
    running properly, PHH would approve the work. However if you just want
    the car "tuned up" because you think it should go faster, its probably
    a no-no. At the end of the day its what the garage tells PHH when they
    phone them to get permission to undertake any work.
    
    Put yourself in the position of PHH. If a car is serviced at its
    regular intervals it _shouldn't_ need extra servicing, and they
    certainly don't want to pay out more than necessary.
    
    I've heard recently about a case of a guy whose car is at the end of
    the lease, is very high mileage, consequently its breaking down quite
    often and the lease company really don't want to know because its
    approaching the end of lease.
    
    - Roy 

    re.-1
    
    The engine runs O.K. , it just does not like starting in the morning...
    it fires up ok but stalls .....unless you rev at about 2000 revs for
    about two-three mins ....The choke setting makes no difference.
    
                              KR
    

I sometimes had problems with the engine dying. The trick seems to be, don't
touch the throttle. Just start it with full choke, no throttle. The engine
will start and stay started!!

Not only the GTT. This appears to be the case for almost all Renaults.

re last couple.

Yep mine does this - I have to catch it with the throttle before it stalls!!

Anyway, mine's just come back from the 18000 service. It runs at about
1100 rpm and also seems to have a strange tapping sound. Is this
tappets? Does everyone else run slower and quieter? Could be worth an
argument at the garage!!


Greg

    Mine runs at about 1100 rpm....and slows to about 900 when the fans
    come on.
    
    
                          KR

This reluctance to tick-over, used to happen with my Golf (automatic choke)

The starting procedure was :-

Clutch in.
Ignition (no throttle).
	This would automatically engage the high-tickover (1800 rpm).
To cancel high-tickover, blip throttle after about 45 secs.
After this, no tickover problems.

Any deviation from this, and I got *major* cold start problems !

Maybe this is the same for the "5" ?

    
    
    RE: -1
    
    Hi peeps,
    
    I've had my little whizzmobile for about 10 months now and found the
    best way of starting on *any* morning, hot, cold, snow, rain etc. is to
    keep your feet away from the pedals, choke full out, turn over the
    engine; it will stall first time; thence, still no feet, turn it over
    again .. this should be enough (it may need a third under some
    situations).  Run on full choke for about 45 seconds (2200 rpm) then dip
    choke till revs reach 1800.  Drive away, and when temperature gauge is
    2mm above bottom line, put choke fully in, and you're away !!!
    
    Its never failed for me yet.
    
    Paul.
    

Just don't touch the pedals at all!, not even when it feels like it is going to
stall! I don't know whether it is the carburettor design or something. Can
someone tell me something technical about float chambers, and needles that
explains this.

The strangest thing is that you can run the starter for as long as you like.
(Look at the manual for when you run out of petrol, it says to "run the starter
for at least 45 seconds") I was under the impression that most cars disengage
the starter when the car starts. I think not knowing when to stop the starter
(if you see what I mean) is probably what makes the difference.

Whatever happens it seems more reliable than the VW Corrado that AutoCar & Motor
have.

On the subject have people seen AutoCAR & Motor 20 Feb, with the review of the
French Clio 16V. Looks very nice, with power steering and (apparently) better
handling than the GTT. Nice to see that the interior looks good too.

Also the review of the R19 16V looks good. Now think what a Turbo would be like!

Mark.

    On a new area, has anyone noticed a slightly annoying feature the GTT
    exhibits around filling up with fuel ??  On mine, you can fill it right
    up to the top, and then if you wait about 10-15 seconds there will be a
    load of gurgling and bubbling and the level will drop again.  Sometimes
    it needs a helping hand (a quick shove of the GTT's back end!!).  I
    think there must be an air lock or something.  Is this a design feature
    for those rapid cornering moments to prevent spillage, or just a badly
    designed fuel tank.
    
    Any ideas ??
    
    Paul.
    

    
    
    I picked up my R5 Turbo yesterday.
    It nows starts first time and continues to tick over when cold
    starting......and it goes like a Rocket.
    
    The garage said it needed tuning, they also fixed the wipers ( Fuse was
    the cause ) and a plastic bracket that the rear shelf fits into.
    
    They charged PHH 45 pounds, yet it was only serviced 1500 miles ago !
    
    I thought the tune up would have been free of charge, you can see why
    PHH are having to increase charges, don't they ever question garages over
    these charges ?  
    
                             Kevin Raven
    
    
                           
                                        

    Re .789
    
    Any chance of someone photo copying the reviews of the Clio and 19 16 
    valves from Autocar and Motor (Feb 20th) and posting them to me (Tony
    Madeley @BST) 'coz I tried the news agents in Basingstoke and they dont
    have any left.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.

    Re last
    
    Cheers Roy,
    
    Spike.

    
    
    Clio report .
    
    Two models featured Clio 16s ( Sports model 16V )
                        Baccara  ( Luxury model     )
    
    The Clio 16s develops 137bhp , Top Speed 130MPH, 0-60 in Approx. 7.5's.
    They describe the 5 GT Turbo as being Fast,brash and fragile, while the
    Clio is smooth sophisticated and refined.
    
    They say the car would be faster but for the extra drag created by the
    wide wheelarches.
    The multi-valve engine is eager right through the rev range- its not a
    high-revving screamer, gearchange is excellent too.
    
    Clio has injection-moulded recyclable plastic front wings. These are
    corrosion proof,impact resistant and weigh less than half as much as
    steel wings.
    
    Car being tested was a French model and British model might have extras
    as standard such as remote alarm, electric windows and ally wheels etc.
    
    
    The Auto Express team seemed impressed with the test car they had.
    
    
                          KR 

Any chance of Clio and 19 reviews sent to me?

Cheers,

Greg Hilton@lzo

    Well - finally heard today that Spike Junior is being written off. 
    
    So to repeat that well known question - how do you replace such a fun
    car? (Sorry Mark, couldn't resist that one) Do I try to get one of
    the last few GTT's, or go down market and look at Pugs or RS Fiesta's ;-)
    
    I've been trying to find a dealer with a 16 valve 19 demonstrator -
    tried the contact on Fleet VTX and Weldale in Reading but both said
    they wouldn't have one until the end of the month. Anyone know of a
    dealer with one at the moment?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Spike.
    

 I went into Weldale on Tuesday lunchtime last week to inspect the 16 valve 19,

 I asked the salesman for a test drive and he said sure call back in a couple of
weeks when it is run in.

 Barrie.

    
    	Do any of the other early 5GTT owners out there suffer the
    following problems with their cars...
    
    	o	Pig difficult to refuel - automatic hoses cut out as the
    		trigger is squeezed, resulting in it taking up to 10 mins
    		to fill the tank - this appears to be some design or back
    		pressure fault.
    
    	o	Ridiculously bad starting, hot, cold, warm etc. Just a
    		total reluctance to start first time.
    
    	o	Front wheel balancing problems, especially starting at the
    		90 MPH mark... always fixed for a short time but returns
    		after about 500 Km
    
    	Other than these problems the car goes OK, but is still brutish
    compared to a 205 1.9 GTI which is a far nicer car to drive...
    
    	Rat whizzes along...
    

i've one of the older 5's (grey bumper model)

>>    	o	Pig difficult to refuel - automatic hoses cut out as the

I've never experienced this - I can fill my tank up fairly quickly - used to be
a problem with an old vw Polo I used to have 

>>    	o	Ridiculously bad starting, hot, cold, warm etc. Just a

have you read the handbook on how to start the car? I only had a problem once
with starting; just after I bought the car, after a long drive on a hot day it
took about 3 minutes of churning/waiting... to get it to start - I put it down
to it needing a service & new plugs - been fine since

>>    	o	Front wheel balancing problems, especially starting at the

I'm unsure of this one - my car shakes a bit too much for my liking at speeds
over 80ish (vibrating steering wheel) - I usually notice this most on motorways.
I thought it was the wheels out of balance - had them balanced, had tracking
checked too - there was a very slight improvement. The guy who did this work 
suggested that it was the drive shafts which were wearing & hence became a bit
loose.
I wonder whether it's just because the car is quite small & light that makes it
more prone to shaking etc...?

...art

When I first had my GTT it was incredibly difficult to fill with fuel.
Tried all sorts of remedies - slower filling, different angles with the 
nozzle, further in/out with nozzle, letting someone else fill it :-) -
all to no avail. I finally got fed up one day and reached up under the wheel 
arch and messed around with the pipes at the back of the filler cap.
Not sure what exactly I did, but I've not had any trouble filling it since.

Phil.

           
    
    
    See you should have got an R.S Fiesta.......
    
    
    
    
       
    Had to get a mention for the old R.S in this topic as you guys keep
    referencing R5's in the R.S one.
    
    

>>    See you should have got an R.S Fiesta.......

if he had, the question posed would be...

Does anyones RS fiesta work at all?


		:-)

Wheel ballancing:

When my current GT Turbo was new the front wheels where out of ballance so badly
that the vibration on the steering wheel caused my ( metal ) watch strap to
rattle, I had the wheels ballancedwhen the car went in for its first service at
1500 miles, which only partially cured the problem. I then took the car to ATS
and asked them to ballance the front wheels. Apparently one wheel was out by
approximately one gramme. The vibration has now gone and the car feels
wonderfully smooth and stable at all speeds.


Filling problems:

 I have occasionally had problems filling the tank on both of the GT Turbos 
that I've had, I find that twisting the petrol pump nozel round in the filler
hole usually cures this.

Starting Problems:

  My last GT Turbo never gave me any starting problems whatever the temperature
of the engine ( even when the coffee fan burnt out ). The current car requires
a special technique to start from cold i.e.

 	1. Turn on choke.
	2. Keep feet off accelerator pedal
	3. Turn key

  The engine will then rev up to about 2500 RPM, drop down to about 800 RPM,
pretend to cut out and then level out at 2000 ish RPM. I can live with this
but I will try to get it sorted at the next service. I have had no hot start
problems.

Batteries:

  My last GT Turbo ate 3 batteries in two and a half years, the annoying thing
about it is you could never tell when the battery was going to die, I could
start the car in the morning and the engine would turn over as if the battery
was fully charged then after a good drive ( an hour or more ) and a short rest
I would turn the key and.... nothing no radio, central locking, widows and
definately no starting.


 Dont know why I chose another one really, must be because they're such fun !



	Barrie.

    
    I never had ANY of the problems described.
    
    Mark

No
  I tried an RS


          no comparison !


		Barrie

re. folks with dying batteries

do you think this could be attributed to the percolator fan coming on after
you've turned the engine off (hence no re-charging of the battery)?

I always try to cool the engine down as much as I can before switching off, so
I've rarely had the fans turn on after the engine has stopped - sapping battery
strength



...art

    Re .807 ( andd any body who can't start a Renault......;-)...)
    
    Barrie, you just described the starting technique which I was told by
    both Weldale and Wheelers was the correct one for **ANY** fuel injected
    (i.e. non-carburated petrol engine) Renault. It's kinda hard to not
    want to open the throttle on turning the engine over, but that's the
    one thing you DON't do, engine hot or cold.........it hasn't failed to
    work in 3 years and two identical cars. When I complained about poor
    starting with car number 1 I was gently shown the page in the owner's
    manual that described starting the car.....
    
    When in doubt I guess we should read the manual.

    
    The 5 GTT DOES have a carb.
    
    Mark

    re: 256.806
    
    I have no problems with mine !!! 
    
    
    I don't think any of the other three guys in CSC have problems with
    their's either...... mind you that could be cos two have been 
    stolen and the other has been totaled.
    
    
    

>>    How?  Do you park nose into the river?


by keeping the revs low near the end of journey & blasting the heater on (out
the windows)


>>After a hard drive the fans can be going for 45 mins.

probably explains batteries exhausting, I've never heard mine on for more than
a couple of minutes...



...art_cool

    I didn't say it was INCORRECT for a Carburetted car just correct for an
    injected motor........
    
    The real message I had to put over was "I suppose we've read the
    manual, haven't we?". If we have, and there's nothing wrong with
    with the starting technique being used, bitch like h*ll at the garage
    that does the servicing untill it's fixed......

    How many miles  approx.  should  I expect to get out of a set of
    tyres on my R5GTT .
    I understand it depends on the way the car has been driven, Whats was
    your experience ?
    
    
                              KR 
    
    
   

    
    My front tyres used to last about 18,000 miles, the rears were replaced
    at around 32,000 as one had been badly damaged by a puncture and so I
    replaced them both, they still had a fair amount of mileage left in
    them.
    
    Mark

done 16,000 on all four of mine so far - look like they've got quite a lot more
miles still to go on them tho'

...art

    My first pair of "fronts" only lasted 9500 miles, but that was because
    the garage over-inflated them at a service and they wore very rapidly
    in the middle. They were the standard Michellin.
    
    The replacement pair (Pirelli P600) are now 23,000 miles old and still
    bags of tread.
    
    The rears are the originals, plenty of tread.
    
    One nice thing about the R5GTt is that you don't normally spin the
    wheels when you set off 'cos of the slight delay before the turbo does
    its stuff. Thus fronts last longer than you would expect
    
    mb

My fronts lasted 18000 miles and the backs still had pleanty of tread left when
the lease expired at 30000 miles

	Barrie

My first set on the first car wore out due to over-inflation at 13,000 miles.

The first set on the second car were replaced by ATS recently at 21,000 miles.

Mark.

Folks,

I have a 1988 Renault 5 Turbo with 25,000 miles on the clock, which is 
overheating. To date considerable work has been done on the car with little 
success. Outlined below are the symptoms and checks done so far. I would 
appreciate it if someone could suggest other possible checks and/or advise of 
any known problems with this model (I am aware of two other R5 Turbos which had 
similar problems, however their engines were completely destroyed because 
of excessive overheating, the root cause was not found in either case).

SYMPTOMS:
--------

1) Temperature gauge reading above normal. While it was possible to keep the 
gauge around the normal level by driving very carefully (55mph/2500rpm on 
an open road) the temperature gauge would rise close to the red line if 
driven differently (water never boiled). This still happened after the 
thermostat was removed.

2) The coolant changed brown from a green colour.

3) The fan continued to cut in and out although the temperature on the 
gauge appeared to be higher than normal before the fan would cut in and the 
fan cut out before the water level had cooled appreciably according to the 
gauge.

4) There did not appear to be any loss of coolant from the system and the 
oil seemed perfect.

5) Pressure seemed to be building up in the system.



CHECKS DONE:
------ ----
All of the following have been checked and found to be ok.

1) System was backflushed.

2) Thermostat.

3) Heater sensors & guage.

4) Cap on the expansion tank.

5) Water Pump.

6) Head gasket.

7) The head itself was X-Rayed for cracks.

8) Liners/Pots X-Rayed for cracks.


	Rgds,
		Paul (frustrated R5 owner!!!)

maybe the radiator has stuff (leaves/road gunk) blocking the air flow to it - 
have you checked for this? - check the intercooler too 

the turbo is water-cooled on 1988 cars - maybe there's a problem there - like
excessive heat being produced?

if all else fails try a good Renault dealer (eg Radbourne Racing in Wimbledon)
or somewhere like BBR, Janspeed etc  ie. people who really know about turbo
engines - rather than those more used to servicing standard R5 Campus' etc



...art

re: overheating etc

While sticking my neck into the R5's engine I noticed a hole in a
wooden coloured cardboardy thing at the back of the engine bay. There
was a small cigarette lighter sized plug which fits into the hole.
Leads went from this plug off somewhere.

Now I haven't a clue what it does, but if it's the heat sensor for
switching fan off/on then if someone's has slipped somewhere cool, or
isn't there could this be a problem?

Any-one else have this hole?

Cheers,

Greg

    Re: .829
    
    I think that the "wooden coloured cardboardy thing" is a heat shield
    around the turbo. The "cigarettte lighter" is a temp sensor that kicks
    in the tertiary cooling system if things get extremely very hot (the
    secondard cooling system is the coffee fan and the primary is the bog
    standard radiator). Maybe the intercooler counts as a quadwary (or
    whatever the word is) system.
    
    Doesn't help the overheating problem though. When my primary cooling
    system fan broke (the one behind the radiator) i didn't get excessive
    overheating problems so long as i kept moving, the faster the better.
    
    Sounds like a blockage or a sticking themostatic valve or something,
    but as you can tell from my technical terms, i ain't a mechanic!
    
    mb

    
    
    More like a poor substitute......;-)
    
    
    Nev.

>> Oh, yeh, and the replacement is ...
>> A Toyota MR2 GT T-Bar
    
    Given this, shouldn't this...
    
>> Happy turbing, and see you all in my rear-view mirror!
    
    Read...
    
    'Happy turbing and see you all in my rear-view mirror, side window,
    windscreen, side window, out of the roof.'?
    
    Enjoy your new toy.
    
    Mark

    
    Should make for an interesting comparison; from the hottest and
    least refined hatch, to a car thats just as quick but encourages
    (requires) a different style of driving. Will this be a new T-bar,
    or one of the older ilk?
    
    Bill.

    Re: .834
    
    I don't want to clutter up 256.* with non Turby stuff but, yes, it is
    interesting comparing the two. The MR2 is much more refined, on a par
    with my old BMW 325i (if not more!), but you would expect this at nearly
    twice the price. It doesn't feel as quick (although i am still running
    it in between 2000 and 4000 rpm), but so far it exhibits none of the
    "blink and it spins" behaviour that everyone keeps quoting. Suppose it
    is a bit like the "hot start" problem supposedly in the R5.
    
    It is the new T-Bar - i wish the rain would stop!!!
    
    Details in another topic when i get round to writing my "600 mile
    report",
    
    mb

OK, the R5GTT isn't refined compared to more expensive cars, but in the little
hatchback area, is rated by What Car as more refined than the RS-Turbo (noisy
engine) and 205 GTi (noisy & bouncy).

    
    Re .836
    
    Ignore Bill, Mark, he's just been thousands of miles in an AX GT, the 
    noise must have affected his judgement! :^)
    
    Mark
    
    PS At least the Renault doesn't sound like a sewing machine on speed!
    :^)
    
    

    There are some good quotes in vtx at the moment -
    
    RENAULT 5 GT TURBO HATCHBACK             1400       3993/    0
    RENAULT 5 GT TURBO HATCHBACK             1400       4018/    0
    
    I'm surprised that that there are any 5GTTs left, as I thought they
    stopped making them a while ago.
    
    - Roy

    Read the small print..... it says that VTX quotes don't bind anybody on
    the supply side to anything.....
    

    Someone in our group has just ordered against one of these quotes - no
    problem.
    
    Rich
    

    
    I'm considering doing a 50/50 mix of unleaded and leaded fuel as a
    test on my R5GTTurbo has anyone else tried this ?
    
    I know it shortens the life of the engine , but by how much? Will it
    see me to the end of the lease ( About 60,000 miles ) .
    
                    KR 

>>    I'm considering doing a 50/50 mix of unleaded and leaded fuel as a

I don't see the point of doing this?!

I don't know about shortening the life of the engine, but you may get a small
drop in performance and the engine may pink etc etc...


...art

    
    The reason for doing it may be to increse the av. octane of the fuel
    used, since supergreen has a higher octane than normal 4 star.
    
    Don't know what it would do to the engine though...

    
    Actually, adding a small amount of normal unleaded fuel to leaded
    4 star will increase the RON of the resultant fuel.
    
    Bill.

    
    Re .844
    
    Why?
    
    Mark