T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
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1481.1 | Copied by mod | UKCSSE::RDAVIES | I can't tryp for nots | Wed Jun 26 1991 15:35 | 32 |
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Conference: UK_CARS
Topic title: Camshaft belt breaking
Note title: Lines: 23
Author: KERNEL::BARTHUR
Number: 1477.0 Created: 25-Jun-1991 15:23 Replies: 13
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Does anyone out there have experience of camshaft belts breaking,
causing the obvious damage that happens when piston meets valve?
I would particularly like to hear from anyone who has heard of this
happening on BMW 318i's.
A little background.
A friend of mine has had a 318i since new. It has always been
serviced at the correct interval by the same garage.
The last service cost #470 and the mileage was around 47.000 miles.
BMW claim that the belt does not require changing until 2 services
ahead.
I believe that almost every make of car suffers with this problem
and that Peugeot change it after 30.000 miles.
What do the "panel" think, and how can I get BMW to fix the damage
at their expense?
Bill
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1481.2 | copied by mod | UKCSSE::RDAVIES | I can't tryp for nots | Wed Jun 26 1991 15:36 | 24 |
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Conference: UK_CARS
Topic title: Camshaft belt breaking
Note title: Lines: 15
Author: AEOEN2::MATTHEWS In a negative brownie-point situation ...
Number: 1477.4 Created: 25-Jun-1991 16:31 Replies: 13
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Having just re-read the base note, it isn't clear to me if the belt has broken
or not.
My BMW had the belt changed at 60k (I think, although it could have been 50K).
That is the recommended interval.
A bill of #470 for a service is about normal for a BMW, especially if it is
a major service.
If the car has a full service history, and the belt snaps, I would have
thought that there is a reasonable case for a discussion with BMW to ask them
to fix it for free. What might happen is that they will pay for the parts,
and you pay the labour ... this is what happened to me when they cocked
something up.
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1481.3 | Copied by Mod | UKCSSE::RDAVIES | I can't tryp for nots | Wed Jun 26 1991 15:37 | 18 |
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Conference: UK_CARS
Topic title: Camshaft belt breaking
Note title: Lines: 9
Author: AEOEN2::MATTHEWS In a negative brownie-point situation ...
Number: 1477.7 Created: 26-Jun-1991 09:31 Replies: 13
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The 470 quid service price is because genuine BMW parts are expensive.
Yes, it's just another car, but the genuine parts have a longer life,
so in the long run are better value. (I know this is what the adverts
say, but I have also found it to be true in practice ...).
re: cam-belt. I suppose we could all have them replaced every 1000 miles,
just to be on the safe side :-). Anyway, who is to say that the quality of
the material used for the cam-belt is the same for every car. Perhaps BMW
over-engineer, to save the unnecessary cost of frequent replacement.
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1481.4 | Copied by mod | UKCSSE::RDAVIES | I can't tryp for nots | Wed Jun 26 1991 15:37 | 41 |
1481.5 | you get what you pay for... | KERNEL::PETTET | Norm Pettet CSC Basingstoke | Wed Jun 26 1991 20:43 | 12 |
| I don't own a BMW car but I do own a R60/7 BMW motorcycle. As a general
rule genuine BMW parts cost about 25% more than BMW lookalike parts,
however they do carry (on some parts) a 3 year guarantee. I think the
bottom line is
You buy Skoda/Trabant cars you get the appropiate service/parts
if you buy BMW/Rolls-Royce/Volvo you get a superior service/parts. Its
perhaps what the market expects, after all would you trust a garage
that services your car for 25 pounds including parts!!
Cheers...Norm
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1481.6 | No real price difference here. | TLE::LEGERLOTZ | When I want your opinion I'll ask for it. | Wed Jun 26 1991 21:23 | 14 |
1481.7 | | AEOEN2::MATTHEWS | In a negative brownie-point situation ... | Thu Jun 27 1991 10:57 | 4 |
| re: .5
Agree about BMW parts, but not about the service. I've yet to find a
good BMW garage. Same for Ford and Vauxhall in the past.
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1481.8 | You get what you pay for....sometimes | WOTVAX::MEAKINS | Clive Meakins | Thu Jun 27 1991 11:35 | 9 |
| >Agree about BMW parts, but not about the service. I've yet to find a
>good BMW garage. Same for Ford and Vauxhall in the past.
I too have not found a good Ford garage, I've not even found a
reasonable one. I do know of a reasonable-to-good BMW garage where they
worked on a saturday to fix my car after a break-in. Servicing appears
efficient too. This garage seems to have some spare capacity in terms of
mechanics time (has to cost money), with no spare it is difficult to
offer a fast and flexible service.
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1481.9 | Lamps are expensive. | UKCSSE::CAMP | | Thu Jun 27 1991 12:33 | 22 |
| As my BMW is a company car I don't get too much involved with
individual spare parts. However I did have to have one Main Beam
headlight replaced, which came to 61.00 pounds. I don't have the bill
to hand but it went something like this
headlamp assembly 27.00
new adjusting clips 1.00
new bulb!!!! 7.00
labour 19.00
vat 8.00
The bulb was infact OK, but the dealer said "we always change the bulb
as the origonals become unrealiable if they get wet", to which my
response was "thats OK so long as you give me the old bulb back", to
which there reply was "well, er, um, we will give you a new bulb
just in case the mechanic did not leave the old bulb in the boot with
the used parts", and surprise surprise no old bulb in the boot.
I think the parts are expensive, but are they that much more than say
a VW in this case? The thing that did concern me was that they would
pull a cheap stunt with the bulb, which for a main BMW dealer is
very poor. I wonder what they get up to for items that you can't easily
check?
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1481.10 | some BMW service claims | MEALA::JACKMAN | | Thu Jun 27 1991 13:02 | 28 |
|
I read in an auto magazine recently that the average cost of a major
service for a 2 year old 318i with 25,000 miles up was about 133
pounds, and about 196 pounds for a similar aged 528i. The magazine was
about 2 years old but even allowing for 10% inflation per year this is
nowhere near the 470 pounds mentioned elsewhere in this note. The
source of these figures was a guy called Walter Warren, the BMW UK
service manager. He mentioned lots of interesting things which made BMW
service costs sound like good value for money, for example
- Genuine BMW parts are guaranteed for and last longer than other makes
- BMW has a list of standard times for most service operations which
official dealers must adhere to
- BMW regularly audit their offical dealers for adherence to standards
- BMW have reduced the price of many common components in the last few
years
Perhaps all other manufacturers do these things as well, I know Ford
make similar claims.
I would be interested in seeing a breakdown of a "normal" 470 pounds
service bill, to see where this money is spent. Maybe individual BMWs
require more MAJOR services than the BMW corporation thinks or admits ?
Any takers ?
- Brendan
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1481.11 | Genuine??? | KERNEL::BARTHUR | | Thu Jun 27 1991 16:14 | 43 |
|
Since I kicked off the debate about the cam belts maybe I should
have another tuppence worth here.
The BMW 318i "F reg" has the onboard "computer" I use the term
loosely. There are led's on the dash which light up in order, the
closer you get to a service being required. Once the service is due
a bright red led comes on.
Apparently, it does not matter how many miles have been covered,
because the sensors take into account the type of driving that has
been done; ie; stop and start, continual high speed, traffic light
grand prix's etc. Now, if all of that is true how can they give
any recommendation on the life of a cam belt, since the belt must
be under the most strain when the engine is hammered from tickover.
On the spares issue, does anyone out there seriously believe that
BMW make their own piece parts. Of course they don't. Just as
Marks and Spencer do not make any goods that they sell. I suggest
that they both sell quality goods and maintain the quality by
using their muscle on the manufacturer.
How many of you have returned faulty goods to M&S?
Bosch probably do all their electrics as an example, as do Lucas
for Leyland.
On the question of cam belts, there are probably only a couple of
manufacturers in Europe who make these, Ferodo being the obvious
one, who may well have a little printing machine that stamps BMW
all over the ones that are supplied to them. So how come they are
25% more expensive. 3 year guarantee?? maybe so, but thats what you
are paying for. But if your super duper Ferodo BMW cam belt snaps
under guarantee guess what you will get? Correct, a new 15 quid
belt, and a bill for a grand for a new engine.
Finally, just one point about the cost of "BMW" parts during a
service. Usually all of the parts used on a service are of the type
where you will receive absolutely no warranty anyway, pads, plugs
oil, screen wash, gaskets, BELTS (would it matter anyway).
Sorry guys BMW have done an excellent brain washing job on the
British public.
Bill.
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1481.12 | | KERNEL::MCGOWAN | | Thu Jun 27 1991 16:18 | 14 |
| my services on a 318iS have been around 150ish quid - sorry can't
remember the exact figure. I take it to Wiggins BMW garage in
Winchester, which I've found to be excellent.
One of BMW's claims is that the engine management system stores
appropriate information about the running of the car and any faults,
and this is up-line dumped into an analyser at the garage - it's very
impressive, I've seen it. Just plug in a cable from the service bay
into a jack socket in the engine, and all the car's electronic funtions
are tested electronically and diagnosed if faulty (even on-board
fuel computer and lights). This is supposed to drastically cut down the
labour time spent servicing the cars, so reduce costs.
Pete
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1481.13 | | HAMPS::LINCOLN_J | Where sheep dare | Thu Jun 27 1991 16:23 | 16 |
1481.14 | | HAMPS::LINCOLN_J | Where sheep dare | Thu Jun 27 1991 16:25 | 5 |
| ... however the BMW service indicator thingy is a nasty pain
which I can happily live without. Basically it's a gimmick
designed to force you to use BMW service centres.
-John
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1481.15 | | CHEFS::BRIGGSR | They use computers don't they? | Thu Jun 27 1991 17:08 | 15 |
1481.16 | | CHEFS::BRIGGSR | They use computers don't they? | Thu Jun 27 1991 17:10 | 7 |
|
.... Oh and I wouldn't even BEGIN to start comparing the difference in
quality. However, in all fairness, the Montego has been 100% reliable
(so far!).
Richard
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1481.17 | Are you in the red light district ? | MEALA::JACKMAN | | Thu Jun 27 1991 18:17 | 19 |
|
What happens if you ignore the BMW red light, assuming of course you
drive with reasonable care and work on an interval/mileage-based
service plan. That is, you get a major service done after every 12,000
miles even if the red light comes on after 9,000. Will the cars
feelings be hurt after being neglected for so long and pack it in some
day ? Does the on-board computer record WHEN the red light first came
on and tell your BMW dealer what a naughty person you've been at the
next service ?
I presume the BMW service book does not have mileages printed over each
entry where service details are recorded, as it depends on when the
red light comes on. In any case it seems like an individual owner could
choose whether to service the car according to either the red light or
mileage/interval methods.
- Brendan
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1481.18 | Service Lights | ESDC2::MUDAN | Man Made Soul | Fri Jun 28 1991 11:45 | 10 |
|
The Service Light(s) can be re-set *yourself* ! There is a "doobery"
that you can purchase which re-set the lights. Many self-appointed
BMW Service Agents have these. Don't know how they work but the do
re-set the lights.
I read in some blurb that once the "red" light comes on the Engine
Management System restricts the "power" and forces a reduction in the
speed you can go.
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1481.19 | | AEOEN2::MATTHEWS | In a negative brownie-point situation ... | Fri Jun 28 1991 12:07 | 3 |
| re: red light.
Well it doesn't on mine ...
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1481.20 | | CHEFS::BRIGGSR | They use computers don't they? | Fri Jun 28 1991 12:58 | 8 |
|
Try doing a long night journey with a red light (and a yellow, if I
remember correctly) on. They may not lok that bright but they do start
to get to you.
No, in my opinion those red lights are a big con. Nothing else.
Richard
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1481.21 | some figures ? | MEALA::JACKMAN | | Mon Jul 01 1991 17:39 | 6 |
|
Thanks for all the inputs so far. What I'm really looking for are some
samples of actual service costs which noters have been charged.
- Brendan
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1481.22 | not cheap | UFHIS::GVIPOND | | Mon Jul 01 1991 17:59 | 10 |
|
Well this is not a BMW charge, but I was charged DM 211.63 to remove and
fit a rear light, plastic lens cover last week, this was only the
removal/refitting charge as the panel was going to be painted and they
removed the lens first. the removal of the rear wheel to allow them to
paint the rear panel also cost me 56 DM.
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1481.23 | Vincents near Queens House | CRISPY::TAYLORG | Bodybuilders do it till it hurts | Mon Jul 01 1991 18:37 | 18 |
1481.24 | | HUGS::AND_KISSES | Scott Marshall | Mon Jul 01 1991 18:45 | 8 |
| >> rubber seals around the doors
Are these MOTable items? I think not! Sounds like a rip-off to me!
And if so much needs doing to a not-very-old car, so much for BMW's claim that
their parts are dearer 'cos they last longer!
Scott
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1481.25 | That's way too much work and way too much money..
| TLE::LEGERLOTZ | When I want your opinion I'll ask for it. | Mon Jul 01 1991 18:52 | 4 |
| It sounds to me like your parents got taken...
-Al
|
1481.26 | | NEWOA::SAXBY | A light bulb lasts longer? | Mon Jul 01 1991 18:58 | 5 |
| Re .24...
Cue Derek? :^)
Mark
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1481.27 | Now I have to wait 3 weeks for an appointment | DCC::HAGARTY | Essen, Trinken und Shaggen... | Wed Jul 03 1991 14:24 | 11 |
1481.28 | Cost of 518 or 520 ??? | EXIT::BOOTHE | Karen Boothe | Tue Jul 09 1991 13:53 | 7 |
|
I'm thinking of buying a 1 year old BMW 518 or 520i. Any owners out there who
can tell me the current cost of a normal service ???
Thanks,
Karen
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1481.29 | | COMICS::FISCHER | Ian Fischer - UK Graphics Support | Tue Jul 09 1991 15:31 | 5 |
| I can't, but I'm sure your nearest BMW service centre
can!
Ian
|
1481.31 | Doesn't seem expensive | EXIT::BOOTHE | Karen Boothe | Tue Jul 09 1991 18:15 | 9 |
|
Ok, I phoned Cooper of Thames Ditton and got the following prices for a 520i:-
7500 mile service 105 pounds
15000 mile service 160 pounds
For my Peugeot 205 XLD I pay very similar prices every 6000 miles !!!
Karen
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1481.32 | | AEOEN2::MATTHEWS | In a negative brownie-point situation ... | Tue Jul 09 1991 19:08 | 10 |
|
The thing I've found with BMW garages is that they don't ask you
before they replace things ... if it needs replacing (in their eyes) they
replace it. When I had a Ford, the garage used to phone me for my approval
before replacing anything not covered by the standard service.
The price you've given is probably the standard service price. Personally
I've never had one of those. The minimum I've ever paid for the service on
my 323i is #250, and that was a long time ago, when the thing was only one
year old.
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1481.33 | Slip-Slidin' Away | SIOG::OHEARCAIN | | Thu Jul 11 1991 14:45 | 43 |
1481.34 | | ESSB::SGREEN | | Mon Jul 18 1994 22:05 | 19 |
|
If you do your own servicing on a BMW / Mercedes / Audi / VW / Volvo you
might want to stick this suppliers number in your little book -
Euro Car Parts Ltd, Smethwick, Warley, West Midlands 021-555-5588
They also have branches in London and Manchester, and the London branch
does mail order.
For a BMW 318i, I got ........ Oil Filter 3.00
Air Filter 5.00
Fuel Filter 6.00
Water Pump 16.00
------
30.00
Vat 5.26
------
35.26 !!!!
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1481.35 | RE: 1481.34 | OASS::HEARSE::Burden_d | Keep Cool with Coolidge | Mon Jul 18 1994 22:30 | 4 |
| Do they stock Isetta parts???
Dave
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1481.36 | | ESSB::SGREEN | | Tue Jul 19 1994 12:53 | 9 |
|
Isetta ??
Sounds like the start of a knock, knock joke to me ...
Give them a call and ask them, I forgot to mention they were
friendly & efficient as well, and the oil filter was an original BMW part..
Steve
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