Conference terri::cars_uk

    I had problems with Autoglass when replacing a bonded rear window in a
    Renault 19 - they left quite a few bits of glass on the back seat and
    also inside the rear door, where it now rattles every time I turn a
    sharp corner.
    
    So, my views, WHICH DO NOT NECESSARILY REPRESENT THE VIEWS OF THE
    DIGITAL EQUIPMENT CORP., etc., etc., etc., are that Autoglass are not
    better than National Windscreens.

    Yes, to both questions, I've had 3 BX screens done from them!
    (autoglass just up the road in reading 591821 is their number)
    
    The first time was the first time I'd ever had a windscreen go, a stone
    chipped the screen, and as I drove along I could watch the crack
    travell across the screen. The BX screen's must be quite stressed as
    this has happened on 3 occasions, once with my first BX, twice with my
    second.
    
    Yes the BX is bonded, but it's not a great problem. You arrange an
    appointment, take the car and leave it. Call back several hours later.
    
    Richard

Its the same on the AX - these guys sem to like glue!

National Windscreens in Newbury were very good.


Jc

I like National Windscreens...

do a good job, and I don't have to take the car anywhere...they come to me 

:-)

>>             <<< Note 1300.4 by OVAL::ALFORDJ "Ice a speciality" >>>

>>I like National Windscreens...

>>do a good job, and I don't have to take the car anywhere...they come to me 

    Does yours have a bonded screen?. I understood it had to be done inside
    as it used heat to cure the adhesive. Hence roadsides only ever repair
    the old type that sits in a gasket.
    
    Richard

The windscreen for the Maestro is 'glued' in ,and that was done at the house. We
were just told not to drive the car for a couple of hours.

    My Sierra had a heated front screen, which needed replacing twice.
    
    The first occasion was undertaken by the local Ford dealer (Horncastle)
    who did an excellent job, but did take 24 hours off the road.
    
    The second occasion I was forced by Fleet to use one of their
    recommendations, so I used Autoglass. I did not like their work (bits
    of broken glass left in car) or their attitude (talking down to
    customers). Worse, the replacement screen was of inferior quality. The
    heating elements were irregularly set causing annoyance to the eye in
    misty conditions, and irregular demisting. I'm not surprised they are
    cheaper! They took 5-6 hours.
    
    (The only reason I managed to go back to Ford orignally was that the
    recommended names didn't stock heated front screens, much to PHH's
    annoyance)
    
    JK
    
    p.s. Autoglass also replaced a rear window on the car, and again left
    bit of glass in places they obviously thought I wouldn't notice. My
    kids managed to find them though.......

    I suppose places like Autoglass are cheaper because they offer a
    quicker, hence inferior service.  Personally, I'd rather get the
    important job (ie new windscreen) done cheaply, and hoover out the
    broken glass myself...
    
    But having said that, if I was paying extortionate amounts for a
    lease-mobile, I'd rather have the job done properly.  You pays your
    money and you takes your choice.  If the service offered by PHH/Hertz
    isn't satisfactory, complain!
    
    Scott
    
    PS Do PHH/Hertz take out extended manufacturer's warranties?  If so,
    having a third party put in a non-standard screen may be against the
    rules.  Just a thought...

Re: .5

Seeing as I'm not sure what a "bonded" screen is, I can't tell you....it's 
certainly laminated anyway...

They used glue and the gasket...which probably means it's not "bonded" !

nifty tool they have to remove/insert the screen into the rubber :-)

    Re: .7
    
    My previous car (an Escort) had a heated front screen, and had to be
    replaced. I found that the heating elements in the replacement were
    irregularly spaced and not of uniform 'zig-zag'.
    
    I had had my new car (a Fiesta) 3 days when a stone chipped the screen.
    The chip is small, but is starting to get annoying, so I am going to
    have to get it replaced. It is also heated. I am going to 'lay the law
    down' to whichever replacer I get, to tell them that the new screen
    must be of equivalent quality of uniformness of spacing and zig-zag of
    elements.
    
    Wish me luck.
     
    Graham

>>             <<< Note 1300.9 by OVAL::ALFORDJ "Ice a speciality" >>>
>>Re: .5

>>Seeing as I'm not sure what a "bonded" screen is, I can't tell you....it's 
>>certainly laminated anyway...

>>They used glue and the gasket...which probably means it's not "bonded" !

>>nifty tool they have to remove/insert the screen into the rubber :-)

    Bonded is when the windsreen is glued to the face of the rubber, giving
    a flush (or near) appearance. If you windscreen sits IN a gasket, it's
    not bonded.
    
    Richard

    Has anyone tried having their damaged windscreen "repaired" ?
    
    My insurance company have suggested a company called NOVUS.
    
    It seems that quite bad cracks and bullet holes can be fixed.
    
    Presumably a certain stanard of repair is necessary for MOT purposes.
    
    Alan.

    I remember reading an article on this (not sure of the company name)
    in some motoring mag or other.
    
    The opinion was that in some cases, particularly stone chips (or
    bullet-holes ?), the repair could be almost invisible.
    
    The overall effect really depended upon the type of damage, but
    I think it would not work if the hole had reached the laminate layer.
    
    The conclusion was that it is definitely worth considering...
    
    J.R.

Re: .12

>    Presumably a certain stanard of repair is necessary for MOT purposes.
    
I don't think it applies.  I have a crack most of the way across my
windscreen and was advised that as far as the MOT is concerned it doesn't
matter.

The main legal requirements for windscreens deal with type of glass (either
toughened or laminated), light transmission and requirement to be kept
clean.

jb

    I was under the impression that a cracked windscreen could
    cause an MOT failure.  I had heard of a friend being warned
    that his screen would need replacing prior to the next MOT,
    as it had a small crack, which would probably develop in time.
    
    Maybe the tester was just giving advice, not actually related
    to requirements for MOT testing...
    
    J.R.

 I had a crack right down the middle of my screen, that developed over a 
period of around 1.5 years, but it was able to get through 2 MOTs during this 
time.

 When my Escort was broken into, Autoglass replaced the small front 
quarter-light, having very nicely put a peice of perspex in because they didnt
have the glass available, and couldnt get it till after the new year, which was
fitted properly, despite only being a quick job to last a few days. 
Unfortunately the guy who put the glass in made a real pigs ear of it, the 
rubber didnt fit properly, and the main window wouldnt wind down, so I had to 
go in to get it put right, which was still slightly messed up. I soon got 
cheesed off, and refitted it myself. Maybe I should have said that I would keep
the perspex !!!!!!


		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    I've just come across this topic (infrequent reader of this conference)
    and feel that I must relate the sorry tale of my rear screen and
    National Windscreens at Newbury.
    
    The rear screen on my Sapphire "went" one night, no sign of anything
    having penetrated it. The only theory I came up with was thermal
    shock.
    
    Not to bore you with all the details but I found National rude,
    unhelpful and the workmanship down right shoddy. I had to drive
    the car to Newbury (icy, January morning) from Andover where I had
    to wait 4 hours whilst they fitted a new one.
    
    As I was in a hurry, I left without checking too carefully but during
    my journey down to SBP it was apparent that the car was awash with
    bits of the old screen. They had made a minimal effort to clear
    it up. I spent that evening taking out all the rear seat, boot trims,
    etc to hoover up the mess.
    
    The replacement unit was, in my opinion, inferior. On the Sapphire
    the radio uses the rear screen element as the aerial and the
    performance of the radio was definitely inferior.
    
    I wrote to Fleet and UK insurance about my experience and got very
    negative replies. I wrote to Hertz and got no reply!
    
    I now have my new Sapphire with a heated screen and I have noted
    others' experiences. I shall ensure that if I need a replacement
    that Autoglass/National don't have stock 8-). 
    
    Alan

    
    Have just had a screen go on my Mazda 626. Crack started in car parked
    in drive during cold night. Began in lower left hand corner  - within 
    15 miles had spread right across screen. 
    
    Being done by National tomorrow. It's bonded, & they say the weather is
    too cold for the job to be done outside. Autoglass say the same. Have
    pushed National into dropping me into Reading centre tomorrow after I
    leave the car with them for the required 3 hours -- took some
    persuasion, but they agreed with good grace.
    
    Proof will be available tomorrow p.m ................
                                                              

     
    Re .19
    
    Sounds true, a colleague was told it was too cold to fit a bonded
    screen to his Citroen BX too this AM.
    
    Mark

   The proof will be the first time you drive it in the wet :-)

   A friend of mine was told that because of the weather the car
   should not be used for at least 24 hours after the screen has
   been replaced !!!

    
    Does anyone know how to get rid of the greasy film that's appeared on
    my screen over the last couple of weeks.Someone said wipe a lemon
    across the screen,but are there any other alternatives?
    
    
    Andy.

    Try washing it (by hand).
    
    Phil Gill.

Put some vinegar in the water

    use a leather rather than a cloth, especially on the inside

    
     Put some fairy liquid in the water bottle.
    
    
    

    No *don't* put fairy liquid in the bottle, have you seen the amount of
    salt that thing contains.
    
    	Rik

Go to your nearest supermarket and buy one of those "trigger packs" of
Windolene, or its equivalent. It is ideal for both the inside and outside
of the windscreen, and cuts through grease, grime (and all those other
un-mentionable stains!).

It also makes sense to carry a bottle around in the car, especially in
the summer, because it works wonders on all those "squashed flies" that
commit suicide on your car!

mb

    
     re .28, your kidding right ? never knew that.
    
    

    I have often heard that you should not use washing up liquid in washer
    bottle mainly because it blocks up the washer jets (has you seen the
    crusty bits on the top of a washing up liquid bottle?).
    
    I use plain water in the washer bottle and carry a small bottle of
    water in the boot for top ups and as an emergency to put on the
    windscreen if the jets get frozen.
    
    For cleaning car windows inside and out I have never found anything
    more effective than warm water, sponge and a leather.
    
    Has anyone else noticed how disgustingly grimey the inside of the
    windscreens are on hire cars. They clean the outside pretty well but
    neglect to clean the inside of the screen.
    
    Royston

    
    I've often wondered why with all the heat generated under a bonnet they
    havn't yet sussed out a way to heat the water jets/water so that it
    doesn't freeze up.
    

    Re .28, .30
    
    Not kidding, I'm pretty sure that washing up liquid has a very high
    salt content.
    
    Re. 32                                       
    
    Saab (and probably Volvo) have heated washer jets / water bottles.
    
    	Rik
    
    PS. Any older 911 owners out there have problems with their water
    bottles freezing up for the winter ... this was in the days of narrow
    rubber and very light front end caused Porsche to move battery / water
    bottle / kitchen sink to the front of the car.

    Dishwashers use salt to soften the water so it wouldn't be unreasonable
    to expect washing up liquid to do the same.
    tp

    What does heated washer water do to a cold windscreen?
    
    Andy

    >> What does heated washer water do to a cold windscreen?
    
    Warms it up?
    
    ;^)

>>  Saab (and probably Volvo) have heated washer jets / water bottles.
    ^^^^
Mine doesn't - or if it does, it doesn't work very well on frosty 
mornings!

Mike

>>>    Has anyone else noticed how disgustingly grimey the inside of the
>>>    windscreens are on hire cars. They clean the outside pretty well but
>>>    neglect to clean the inside of the screen.
    
>>>    Royston

	My middle son (having three) has managed to obtain a job as a car
valeter after two years on the dole.  They use (Cellulose) Paint Thinners to
clean the glass inside and outside the cars.

	Yes, when I were a lad in F.S. the Hire cars always had VERY dirty
insides to the windows, no end of complaining served no purpose at all.  The
reason being that the automatic car cleaners only did the outside!

				Malcolm.

>    Has anyone else noticed how disgustingly grimey the inside of the
>    windscreens are on hire cars. They clean the outside pretty well but
>    neglect to clean the inside of the screen.


Can't say I have.

The inside of the windows gets dirty from the foam in the seat breaking down.
The sun beating down on the upholstery, and the heat from the heater, aid in this
process.  As the foam breaks down if give off gasses which show up on your
windows as that milky film.

In the US we use "window washer fluid" in the container under the bonnet.  Its
a blue alcohol based cleaner that doesn't freeze (in the jug).  If you spray it
on a cold windscreen, a thin layer can freeze, but as soon as the heat comes on
in the car, the screen usually warms up enough to keep it liquid.


-Al

    re .34
    
    Dishwashers (like other water softeners) use an ION-exchange resin to
    remove the impurities in the water (especially Calcium and Carbonate
    ions), replacing them with Sodium and Chlorine ions. The salt is used
    to regenerate the resin. A strong brine solution will redissolve the
    impurities stored in the resin, and flush them away.
    
    Salt, on its own, will not soften the water.
    
    Andrew

    Re: .45
    
    So is this resin in the dishwasher powder you put in the machine ?
    tp

...and just a dressed up Imp...

I had a Sunbeam Stiletto which, amongst several other 'niggles, had the crapiest
windscreen washer arrangement ever. It consisted of a plastic bag in the front
'boot' and piping back to the car interior where there was a little rubber
bulb mounted under the dash to pump water to the jets.
The contents of this system froze in November (including the parts inside the
car !) and didn't thaw out again until May ! 

TKS

Aye, but a frozen washer system was the least of your worries in Winter!

I was more concerned about whether the car would actually get around
corners when you turned the steering wheel!!!!

m (NBV117P) b

	I had an ordinary IMP then an Imp Sport back in 1966 and 1968
respectively.

	I had no troubles with the road holding whatsoever, in fact the
roadholding in bad weather was MUCH better than most at the time!

	I won the English Electric Inter-Works Driving Test Championship in 1969
in the Imp Sport!

				Malcolm.

    
    You may need to be careful here. At least one bottle of windscreen
    washer fluid I've bought here has had a warning on the label stating
    that it should not be used neat, since it may damage paintwork (!).
    
    As ever "read the destructions"
    
    Nigel
    

    Yeah... be careful on the concoctions you use in the washer bottle.. a
    previous car of mine (B reg mk2 Astra) had to have its roof resprayed
    under the paintwork warranty because the gunge stripped off the paint!!
    
    Admittedly the "gunge" was a mixture of water (small amount) meths,
    (quite a bit!!) and blue washer fluid (loads!!)  
    
    Even with all that lot in the bottle, the washers still froze up
    regularly.. especially whilst charging up the road in the early hours
    to go skiing, with the outside air temperature in the sub -5 C range.
    
    Just keep a box of kimwipes handy and get out and wipe the window down
    when you can't see the road anymore!!
    
    

    The only thing that UK windscreen washer fluid has in common with
    "real" windscreen washer antifreeze is the colour.
    When I first arrived in Munich with the English stuff in my car I had
    no end of problems, even though I had the strongest recommended
    solution. When I replaced it with some stuff from Obi I never had
    another problem. The UK version is just not designed to cope with
    anything much below zero.
    
    Rob

    Does anyone know of any windscreen replacement companies that give
    Digital employees discounts ?
    
    My wife's Fiesta has a bad chip on the windscreen and it will need
    replacing.
    
    Frank

    My 205 windscreen got a stone chip this morning at the top of the
    windscreen. It has now a small "star" but its at the top of the
    windscreen and not in the field of view. Am I right in saying that so
    long as the field of view is NOT impaired its OK to have a chipped
    windscreen?.
    
    
    	Norm
    
    BTW does anyone know how much a 205 windscreen is?

    
    
>>>    BTW does anyone know how much a 205 windscreen is?
    
    if it's not bonded - and I don't think 205's are - it'll be about a
    tenner from your local scrappies...
    
    Graham

    I have a star chip in my 205's windscreen on the driver's side, but
    below the wiper blade (when the wipers are switched off). 
    
    I've just had my car in at Halfords for a full service in preparation
    for the car's MOT. Halfords were under instruction to rectify anything
    that would prevent the car passing the MOT. They reported back on the fact
    that there was a chip on the windscreen, but did not report back to me
    that the car would fail its MOT because of it.
    
    Having said that, if you are in the AA, Autoglass will repair
    windscreens for free.... which is what I plan to have done on my car.
    
    Stephen

    There's some basic ruling, such as if you can fit a 1p coin over the
    crack and cover it, AND it isn't anywhere in some defined field of
    vision, it will not fail the MOT. Any crack in the defined field of
    vision (don't know what this specifically IS) will fail the MOT, no
    matter how big, so I was lead to believe.
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

>    crack and cover it, AND it isn't anywhere in some defined field of
>    vision, it will not fail the MOT. Any crack in the defined field of
>    vision (don't know what this specifically IS) will fail the MOT, no

My dad was told it was the area covered by the windscreen wipers (when on), 
but I don't know how they stop people getting smaller wipers...

Carol.

Pick up a little card-thing from Halfords, or somesuch shop.  You can get a 
little thing to check the size of the chip, and it also shows what size chips 
are acceptable in what area of the screen.  Different size cracks are 
acceptable in different sections.

    
    Why not use that "chipped windscreen magic repair glue" stuff. Not sure
    how this stands up MOT wise. 
    
    
    Gary 

    What does one do when your windscreen gets that "sandblasted" look....
    and how much is a 505 windscreen?
    
    or should I slip the local yoof a few bob to lob a brick at it??? 
    I'll supply the brick!
    
    Dave

    Dave,
    
    By 'sandblasted', do you mean those mysterious rings that appear when
    tiny alien spaceships land on your windscreen?
    
    This is quite common on your car as Peugot means 'welcome' in martian.
    
    Peter
    

    errrr no.................
    
    I was referring to the trillions of tiny dtone chips etc caused by
    110,000 miles of Scottish gravel lobbed at the car....
    
    The martians land on the bonnet.. far better than the screen!
    
    Dave
    

      
    
    <brickit>