Conference terri::cars_uk

            <<< MARVIN::DISK$ROBIN:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< CARS_UK conference >-
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Note 899.0                 Ex-Lease Car....FOR SALE ?                 No replies
KERNEL::MCGAUGHRIN "what a marvellous delivery!"     12 lines   2-JAN-1990 15:43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    
    	Please could anyone who has an Ex-Lease Car for sale please
    mail me on KERNEL::MCGAUGHRIN with the details.
    
    I am mainly interested in a familey four-door saloon.
    
    
    Regards 
    
    Ian.

    wanna buy a BMW Ian...??

    Anyone got a Citreon BX 1600cc plus, up for grabs?
    
    Please contact:-
    
    7768-5335 or HAMPS::NICHOLLS or Alex Nicholls @BST

    My friend wishes to buy a BMW.  If anyone has a BMW and is due for
    replacement please drop me a mail  or call  me on 7899-5314.
    
    regards,
    
    Girish

>    My friend wishes to buy a BMW.  If anyone has a BMW and is due for
>    replacement please drop me a mail  or call  me on 7899-5314.

    Mine (D reg 325i Sport) got collected about a week ago. However, I'd 
    be a little wary of prices! If I was to buy my old  car,  the  lease 
    company  wanted  12,750 quid. As it happenned, some guy from Grimsby 
    rang me up today asking what sort of nick the car was in!! He didn't 
    work  for  Digital;  he knew the registration of the car, but didn't 
    know what dealer had it....but the real zinger, it  was  offered  to 
    him at 10,250 quid!!!

    Gobstruck of Viables!

    Anyone got a Large Automatic transmission Hatch/Estate that is 
    fore sale ?
    
    SAAB 9000 Turbo 16
    Volvo 740/760
    Renult 25 V6 Turbo
    Ford Granada 2.9
    ??
    
    What sort of price would one of these cost to buy after 2.5 years ?
    Does anyone have a second hand price list for these or other large 
    Hatchbacks/Estates ?
    
    Grant
    

    
    Re .18
    
    Buying a car, Grant?
    
    Mark

    re-1
    
    Not me my dad in a couple of years.
    
    Grant

	Looking Ex-Lease Ford Orion Ghia
                      or Ford Sierra Ghia

	DTN: 768-5264

    My lease car will be up for grabs as soon as I make up my mind about
    replacement.
    
    It's a Ford Sierra Ghia 4x4 *Estate* with all the usual extras plus air
    conditioning.
    
    Great to drive, but low 20s fuel consumption and large garage bills.
    
    50,000 miles.
    
    JK

    Mine RS Turbo will be up for grabs soon - standard stuff like leccy
    widows, recaro seats and a fuel computer.
    
    I average about 35 mpg. By the time the new car pitches up the RS will
    have about 48,000 on the clock. It's Red by the way.
    
    It's had all the Ford re-call bits and pieces done i.e a new exhast
    about 3,000 miles ago and the tyres shoud be good for about another
    10,000 miles.
    
    Still waiting for fleet to come up with a price.
    
    Rich
    

    
    you will see a red mini mayfair with 62,000 miles on the clock up for
    grabs soon :-)

    Ex-lease Golf GTI wanted - 5 door, sunroof, prefer power steering.
    
    Pls reply to Alan Briggs    SIEVAX::BRIGGS  DTN 7-830-6675 
    
    Thanks!

    Good ex -lease Ford Orion 1.6 Ghia injection wanted . E reg or above

    Tony 823 - 3149

    Thanks.

    E reg XR3i  - 44000 miles - Good condition - lease expires shortly.
    
    We have a friend who is interested in buying it.  My question to the 
    panel is - How much will the lease company want for it ?      
    
    My guess is about 5,500.
    
    What do you think ?   
    
    Nigel 

    Find out what thety want by asking them.......

    The lease has about 4 months to run,  so I am planning to call them
    nearer the time.  I was just interested in seeing what you lot thought.
    If my guestimate is way off I could have warned the potential buyer.
    
    Still I shall wait a few months.
    
    Thanks

     you can ask for the purchase price of any car at any time. I asked
    for the price of my car about 4 months away from termination of
    lease and estimated the miles on the clock at that time.

    BX 19 GTi  E reg available end May, around 31,000 miles.  Fitted with
    Clarion Radio/Cassette.  May be seen in rear car park, behind DP II.
    
    Jeff.

>>      <<< Note 833.30 by CHEFS::CLEMENTSD "Public Sector and Telecomms" >>>
>>
>>     you can ask for the purchase price of any car at any time. I asked
>>    for the price of my car about 4 months away from termination of
>>    lease and estimated the miles on the clock at that time.

    Who do you ask?, fleet group or the lease company?.
    
    Richard

    Call either of the two hotline numbers in VTX (one is 7830-3119,
    I think) and ask them who to send a mail to. All they need is the
    reg number, mileage and when the lease expires. It used to be Peggy
    Thomas that handled the process, but I think that it has just changed
    to somebody else (Allison Somebody-or-other?).

    Angela griffiths @ rgm
    
    Richard

The car in .3 will be available this week. Same info as before except that
it now lives in deathpark and has 55k miles and an MOT :-)

Back in November someone was interested - its been so long now I've forgotten
who!

Jc

	Hi, I'm looking for a big saloon:

		Rover 825
		Senator 2.5/3.0
		Carlton 2.0
		Saab 9000
		Audi

	Hi mileage prefferred (50-60K) as it's cheaper on my pocket!

	Please mail me on JUNO::PARASKEVA

	Thanks

	Mark

White Peugeot 205 GTI 1.6 available early-mid June. Just over 50,000 miles 
(December 1987). If anyone is interested in making me an offer I can't refuse
before I sell it privately you can mail me at WOTVAX::KAYD or Derek Kay @ OLO.

The car is in Warrington if you want to see/drive it.

Cheers,

   Derek.

I am looking to buy an ex-lease car, which must be all of the following:

Small (e.g. Nova, Fiesta)

In good condition

Reasonable mileage (circa 20-30,000)

And above all ... *cheap* :-)

If anybody has, or knows of, a car such as this coming off lease soon
then please mail me on WOTVAX::KAYD or Derek Kay @ OLO, or call 851-2358.

Cheers,

   Derek.

    wanted ........
    any small car, the simpler the better. Preferably with less than
    50,000 miles on the clock. Prefer hatchback and down at the bottom
    end of a trim/performance range.     
                                                     
    Anybody got a lease car up for grabs?

    
    
    Wanted any 7 (or more) seater estates with forward facing rear seats.
    
    Examples are Renault Savanna, Espace, Peugeot 505.
    
    

    I hear that as of July 1st *NO* ex-lease cars will be for sale, either
    to the driver or to any other interested party.
    
    Does anybody have any concrete information on this ?.
    
    Rich
    
    

    Haven`t heard about this one. I`m in the process of buying an ex-lease
    car at the mo and nothing was mentioned about it.
    
    			     Ian.

    This is silly because it takes away some of the incentive for looking
    after the car. I have just finished running in my car and I wash
    and clean the bodywork and inside every week, the neighbours find this amusing
    knowning that its a company car, but if at the end of looking after
    it as if it's my own for 30 Months I can't have the opportunity to
    bye it , Well whats the point . I find this quite sad , I tend to
    create a bond with my car and I will find it hard to say goodbye
    at the end of the lease. 
    
    
                          KR
    
    P.S. Perhapes DEC have just stopped the administration side of it
    ,and you have to approach the Lease Company direct.
                                                            
                            
    

    When I had a lease car with my old firm (lease company was
    Leasecontracts) I asked them what the buy-back for my car was and
    it was the full showroom trade price. No discount for lease holders
    at all.
    
    I thought this was a bit excessive. As the car was paid off by the
    36 monthly payments I appreciate that they recover their costs,
    and earn some money, on the profit they get when selling the car,
    but I was extremely disappointed and surprised that they didn't offer 
    the incentive to look after your vehicle by dangling a juicy buy-back 
    price at the end of the lease.
    
    AMS
    
    

    
    	Does Pam Dormer still look into this conference sometimes? I would
    like to understand if Rich's information is true as I am (was!)
    planning to buy my BX at the end of it's lease (in January).
    
    Colin

    For everyones information, Digital are in the procedure of passing
    the administration of Car Sales over to the leasing companies.
    
    We no longer have the resources to look after this area and also
    Digital were being seen as a trader between the leasing company
    and the individual buying the car and this was seen as being
    somewhat suspicious.
    
    Until further notice, the Fleet Dept will continue to obtain prices
    for anyone interested in buying an ex-lease car, however it is intended
    that the new procedure will take effect in a few weeks and this
    will be announced on Fleet VTX.
    
    Hope this helps.
    
    
    Hilary
    Fleet Buyer
    

    Thank you Hilary for clarifying the situation.
    
    Rich
    

I spoke to Pam Dormer this week about a few things, esp. buying ex leased 
cars.

I've been looking ahead to buying my not-quite-yet-delivered new leased car
at the end of its period, and then leaving the scheme. I didn't know about
the plan to do away this facility when I ordered the car. 

She confirms that it won't be possible to buy through Dec. She also says 
that the question of buying direct from leasing companies will be entirely
up to the leasing company concerned. I don't like the sound of this. If
it's too much work for Dec fleet admin. to organise sale to individuals,
maybe the same will apply to the leasing companies. 

Another thing she said was that Dec has, arguably, been acting illegally 
over the years in doing this at all. Something about acting as an agent in 
the sale of the car, thus incurring responsibility, culpability in the
case of faulty car or whatever - something like that, can't remember. 

One more thing - it's touch and go whether my new car will be available by 
23rd July, the latest date in the month which dec allows for delivery. (As
an earlier note stated, this rule is because dec pays for the whole of the
month). I've specifically asked the dealer to try and rush it through for 
the 23rd, so I can have a G reg - i.e. lower price when the car is finally 
offered for sale.  [Am I unique in not wanting an H?]

Car fleet are distinctly unsympathetic in supporting this. 

The reason is that a notional resale price - call it X - is written into
the lease agreement between the leasing company and DEC. If, when the car
is sold, it fetches less than X, that's tough for the leasing company.  If
it fetches more than X, then Dec gets the "profit". 

So - in my case Dec stands to gain if my car has an H reg., because other 
things being equal it should fetch more at auction or wherever.  Or rather 
car fleet stands to gain.  I lose.  (still working on the assumption I may 
have the opportunity to buy the car).

One more sting in the tail. The delivery date stated on the formal order 
acknowledgement was 1st July - the car's late - so the leasing company MUST
have based "X" on the assumption of a G reg. 

All in all I'm cheesed off.

                      <<< Note 833.53 by DOOZER::PENNEY >>>
                           -< There's more to it... >-

>[Am I unique in not wanting an H?]

no.. I have a 'suggested' delivery date of 1 Aug
for my new car (Citroen TZD TD).. and I have _no_ interest
at all in whether the car is a G , H, X, Q, T, A or
any other damn letter.. as long as the car is new
I have no interest in the 'letter' at all

    
    Previous companies I have been with all worked as DEC will - ie
    you negotiate direct with the lease company to purchase.
    
    Some good deals - including one where we could buy any car from
    Hertz as an ex-lease car, regardless of previous user company.
    This applied to any car returned to Hertz by any user. We got 10%
    discount on the Hertz asking price, & a 1 year guarantee. Test drives
    possible. They even sent out a monthly list of available cars.
    
    Prices were good enough to challenge auctions, & you got a good
    look at what you were buying.
    
    This was with a small company, with nothing like the number of cars
    that DEC has. Mind you, we did share some common interests with
    our Hertz Account Manager ........
    
    COlin

    Well, back to the base note.
    
    PHH Vauxhall Astra GTE   1987   Black   44000 miles.      
    
    No sunroof, no lecky windows, no power steering.  It has never "failed
    to proceed" though a few niggly things have dropped off/broken.
    Complete with the contents of a packet of crisps, genuine French
    pebbles and a brake bang loud enough to frighten your passengers.
        
    Available 1st August, no 13th August, no 24th August, well let's
    just say "when I get my new car".
    
    The price,  5670 + 25 pounds admin charge (not included if you "bid"
    for it).  This bidding thing is new to me, has anyone successfully
    bid a low price for a car ?
    
    Trev

     
     Anyone know of any Cavalier SRI 130's or CDI's whose leases are
    up or due, friend of mine is looking for one.
    
    Duncan.
    
    P.S. forgot to mention, it must be a hatchback & the older style. 

I'm looking for an estate during the next couple of months - anything considered...

Jc

    If anyone knows of any VW Golfs (pref CL, GL or Driver) or Peugeot 205s
    coming to the end of the lease, and would be prepared to ask for a
    quote for me, please let me know.
    
    Thanks!
    
    Andy Wigley @MCO   DTN 851 2738

any MR2s coming to the end of their lease?
can someone get me a quote for the cost of one please?

thanks...


...art


(dtn 830 4032)

    
    Re .60
    
    Did you drive one at the weekend Art?
    
    Mark

i'm after the mk1 version anyhows

    
    Another 5'er sees the light...
    
    Were you after a T bar or sunroof version?
    
    Bill.

>>    Another 5'er sees the light...

whaddya mean 'another' !


>>    Were you after a T bar or sunroof version?


the cheaper :-)

however I would like quotes for either version if any kind soul out there has
a lease expiring within the next few months.

ta.


...art

    There's an MR2 on VTX available for takeover if thats any help?
    

    Nothing to stop you contacting the lease company yourself. After all,
    they don't want the thing, and so it will get sold to somebody. You
    will be doing them a favour by keeping one more ex-company car out of
    the auctions.
    
    Steve

       	The following page has appeared in VTX:

>Car Sales as you currently know it has to stop.
>
>Digital in the past has been acting as an Agent for sales which puts the onus
>on the company for the condition of the car.
>
>The Personnel Committee has decided that car sales via Digital should cease.
>All cars at end of lease term (or earlier due to driver leaving the company)
>should be advised to Fleet Dept for disposal. Drivers SHOULD NOT contact the
>leasing company direct regarding car sales.

       Anyone know the reason for the last sentence?

       Ian.

    especially as the Hertz manual delivered with my car last week has a
    questionairre which you send back. The last question is:
    
    "Do you want to receive details of lease car for sale?"
    
    Richard

    Has anybody called "Hertz" or "PHH" yet re: buying a car directly from
    them.
    
    I have a friend who has been interested in my ex-lease motor for about
    five months now.
    
    Then.... Car Fleet drop the clanger. "IT HAS GOT TO STOP !!!!"
    
    Awaiting millions of replies
    
    Andy

    
    There dosen't seem to be any way to buy an ex lease car anymore.
    Everything I have tried has hit a brick wall.
    
    Ian.
    

They must sell them to someone.  I would have thought giving the lease "owner"
the option to buy would encourage people to keep them in better condition, hence
they could get a better price.

Maybe they get dealers to come and buy up ex-lease cars in bulk.  Probably cuts
down on administration.  Also cuts down on customer satisfaction, but since
when have lease companies cared about that!

Scott

They send all the cars to a local car auction.

The only way you will get one is to find out the date, venue and time of the 
auction and go along with wads of dosh !

Not having (or wanting) a lease car myself, but maybe being interested in
an ex-lease car I had a discussion about this at lunch time.

One person said that he had heard a report (outside Digital) that PHH was 
now attempting to maximize the residual value of ex-lease cars.

Another person said that the book that comes with a Hertz lease car 
explicitly says that if you are interested in buying the car you should 
contact Hertz directly about a month before the lease is due to end.

It would help a lot of people if there was a straight and credible story as 
to the current situation.

jb

>>> They send all the cars to a local car auction.

>>> The only way you will get one is to find out the date, venue and time of the 
>>> auction and go along with wads of dosh !
    
    From my experience with LEASECONTRACTS this is a lot *cheaper* than
    buying from them at the end of the contract. When I enquired about
    buying the Mitchell-hatemobile from them they quoted full book price
    for it, and the impression I got from them when I questioned the
    possible reduction for ex-lease owner was along the lines of "...if you
    don't want to pay it some other chump will, and what are you wingeing
    about it's not you thats had the lease it's your company, so if anyone
    deserves a discount it's them not you"
    
    Charming crowd of people.
    
    AmS
    

I see from VTX that you can now buy your lease car at nett book value if you are
rightsized.

So, if you really want to purchase you company car, then the obvious thing to do
is to make sure that your job is one of those not needed by the company. Of 
course, you actually have to leave to take advantage of this offer, but .......

Dick

    But be careful, nett book value to Digital may not necessarily be the
    same number of folding green ones PHH/Hertz think its worth.
    
    Let's be careful out there......

    I was kinda wondering about tha t aspect of it, too, Colin. Digital has
    always been a great one to use the things like "The choice in the car
    scheme" and other little aspects of life at Digital to counter reaction
    to (from a Sales perspective) no commission, the lack of financial
    incentives in any way outside of salary. 
    
    Seems that the position is being eroded by unilateral decisions made in
    the interests of protecting the company....... in any case, if the
    individual contacted the lease company direct, I don't see how that
    would link Digital into the transaction in any way. If we have such
    great leagal minds as are abkle to come up with evidence to show that
    Digital IS linked by the present 'modus operandi', what's to stop them
    exercising the gret cells and coming up with a statement that when
    signed by both the employee and a company legal rep (or whoever) would
    absolve Digital from any responsibility in the chain.
    
    I don't think many people rely on making a minor turn out of the
    sale/resale of their lease car as income, but a fair chunk of people
    must use/have used the fact that they could buy the car at the end of
    the lease for their own use as a means of softening the blow of the
    lease cost.
    
    I still think that we are ripped off on the lease cost, but that's a
    continuing rathole. As a salesman, I had to show my customers a
    detailed breakdown of the cost of a solution proposed before it was
    accepted and had to be able to justify each element in the quote: all
    we get is a bottom line price froma "consultant" and no way of knowing
    whether we are being taken to the cleaners or charged a fair price. Add
    to that we don't know the "consultant"'s fee either.........
    
    But that's a continuing rathole, anyway ...........

        
      This is a sad sad day. Due to an increase on the family front, I have 
 now found my 5GT Turbo a little small. Therefore, if anyone's current lease
 is due to finish & they are interested in taking mine over,(sob sob..!)
 please contact me by mail on KERNEL::MCCOMBE or phone 7833-3654. The car is 
 black, has extra rear speakers, an electric tilt & slide sunroof, costs 99     
 pounds/year on top of supplement & has 18 months of the lease to run.

Duncan.

    
          	AS FROM MONDAY 4TH FEBRUARY 1991 
		THE PROCESS FOR CAR SALES 
         	WILL BE AVAILABLE ON VTX.
         
         	PLEASE REFER TO VTX A&L - CAR FLEET.
         
         	ANY QUERIES PLEASE CONTACT 
		CAROLINE HIPPERSON  
		(7) 830 4022.
         
         
		MANAGER
		PURCHASING DEPARTMENT

    The contact should be Robert Allen, NOT Caroline Hipperson.
    
    - Roy

    Re -1.
    
>   The contact should be Robert Allen, NOT Caroline Hipperson.
    
    ... well that's the name on the mail message. In fact .85 *IS* the mail
    message exactly as I received it from Fleet Admin.
    
    Ian. 

    That's fair enough Ian, but I phoned Caroline Hipperson and she
    said that the message was incorrect and to contact Robert Allen.
    Apparently she spent most of the morning telling people this.
    
    - Roy

    Roy,
    
    Have you any idea who in Fleet I should call to find out when my lease
    is due for renewal? I've had my car since mid Novemebr 1988, can I
    assume that the lease runs out at the end of May this year, or should I
    check?
    
    Ian.

    Worth checking Ian, just phone fleet admin (7830-6509?) they should
    be able to give the exact date. Normally leases are for 30 months
    unless you specify a high annual mileage. (>25000)
    I've heard of leases being as short as 18 or 24 months.
    
    I would think that now would be a sensible time to order a new car
    if the lease expires in may.
    
    - Roy

  >  I would think that now would be a sensible time to order a new car
  >  if the lease expires in may.
    
    I agree, if only I could make my mind up.  But that's another note!
    (How do you replace such a fun car...)
    
    Ian.	

re .89;

my current lease is for 15 months, on a 40,000 annual mileage.

Since I got my current car last August on a new H, I'll be getting my
J-car in October....

Peter.

>                   -< Re. 96  One careful lady (?) owner >-
    
but of course....I'm very careful with it....

:-)

RE: .96

> knocks the pants off any other 1600 car

except maybe the Renault 5GT Turbo, Fiesta RS-Turbo, Daihatsu Charade GTiTurbo
(Only 1.0 Litre!!!), Lotus Elan SE, Toyota MR2, Toyota Corolla GTi, Suzuki
1300GTi, Vauxhall Nova G40(?) etc. etc. etc.

    
    You forgot the Escort RS Turbo, and the Fiesta XR2i would probably smoke it
    too.

Re: .99

>except maybe the Renault 5GT Turbo, Fiesta RS-Turbo, Daihatsu Charade GTiTurbo
>(Only 1.0 Litre!!!), Lotus Elan SE, Toyota MR2, Toyota Corolla GTi, Suzuki
>1300GTi, 

Well it can certainly take on that lot, and at least they won't get away :-)

It can take all the GTi brigade of the same engine size, it's just the turbos 
that are problematical :-)


> Vauxhall Nova G40(?)

What's that, I've never heard of it, and it's not in the brochure...is it the 
rally car ?

>> Vauxhall Nova G40(?)
    
    Or was this meant to be the VW Polo with G-Lader ?
    
    J.R.

    
    Nova beats Elan.... Keep taking the pills Jane.
    
    Mark

    According the CAR mag. these are only two current production cars which
    can beat an Elan SE.
    
    	Rik
    
    I wondler if either of these could seriously threated the BBR 210bhp
    (up 30% over std 160bhp) Elan ?

>>    I wonder if either of these could seriously threaten the BBR 210bhp
>>    (up 30% over std 160bhp) Elan ?
    
    You must be on the same pills as Jane !
    
    The Lancia and the Porsche will laugh at the tiddler in their wake...
    You aren't seriously thinking of getting one of these toys are you ?
    
    J.R.

Yes I know about the Elan Mark....That's why I wanted one...can't afford it !

I think if you read my reply, that's one of the ones that I covered with...
"well they don't get away"....I can usually keep up (roughly) with an 
elan...given a bit of luck :-)


Sports cars do give me trouble...I usually just let them go on their way...and
not even attempt to try to take them on...

In any case...the Elan and the MR2 aren't even "equivalent" cars...i.e. 
hatch-backs/saloons...

    
    Anybody know what the performance figures are for a Nova GTE compared 
    to an XR2i ?

If someone else can provide the XR2 figures...

Nova GSi figures out of the 1992 brochure.

Engine Size	1.6i  (1598cc)
Max Power	100 PS 	    (74kW)   @5600 rpm
Max Torque	99.6 lb.ft. (135Nm)  @3400 rpm
Max speed	117 mph
0-62 (100 km/h) 9.5
Kerbweight	887 kg
Gross weight	1295 kg


mph per 1000 rpm

4th		15.9
5th		20.0


Fuel economy

Urban driving	30.7
56mph		51.4
75mph		40.4


I average 38 mpg consistently over time, that's mostly dual carriagway and 
motorway driving.

    
    Errr.... The Nova GSi and GTE are, I believe, rather different cars.

    Here are a some figures for the XR2i among others (sorry, no info on
    Nova GTE as its not a car that interests me). These figures are approx
    as I got them from various magazines/brochures.
    
                            bhp     max     0-60    30-70
                            ---     ---     ---     -----
    Sapphire Cosworth       204     142     5.8     5.9
    200SX                   171     140     7.2     7.1
    Astra GTE 16v           156     132     7.6     6.7
    Celica 2.0 GT 16v       147     131     8.2     8.4
    R19 16v                 137     130     8.5
    Fiesta RS Turbo         133     129     7.9     7.2
    Escort RS Turbo         132     124     9.2     8.4
    Volvo 480 Turbo         129     123     8.6     8.5
    Astra GTE               124     123     8.4     7.8
    Renault 5 GT Turbo      120     120     7.3     7.2
    Volvo 360               115     111     9.5     10.0
    Astra SRi               112     119     8.4     8.3
    XR2i                    110     118     8.1
    XR3i                    105     116     9.6     9.2
    Volvo 480 ES            103     110     10.3    10.7
    
    Roy

    
    Where's the Calibra then?
    
    Mark

    Thanks for the info.

    Well Jane, 
    
    Comparing the XR2i (which is a rather luke-warm hatch) to the GTE, the 
    XR2i wins!
    
    So, I'll give ya a burn up (and then we can both watch Roy go zooming
    past the pair of us, in his RS Turbo).
    
    8^)
    
    -Tony

    Re: Mark, maybe you could post the figures for the 8v and 16v Calibra
              and I'll add them to my list.
    
    Re: Tony, The 8.1 0-60 is the best figure I've seen for the XR2i,
        one test report I read gave a poor 9.5 seconds.
    
    Roy

    
    re: Roy,
    
    Interesting that the figure can be so inconsistant. I wnder if thats
    a slight difference in the production (model) or whether the guy who 
    got a time of 9.5 seconds knew that it had a 1st gear.
    
    -Tony 

    
    No sooner said than done! :^)
    
                            bhp     max     0-60    30-70
                            ---     ---     ---     -----
    Calibra 8v		    115     129     9.2      ???
    Calibra 16v		    150     139     8.1      ???
    
    Mark
    

    Are all these 0-60 or 0-62, I notice a fair number of manufactures seem
    to be quoting 0-62. I'm fairly sure the figure for the Astra GTE is the
    0-62 one.
    
    Greg

    Well spotted Greg. Please note that .110 is a little list I compiled a
    year or so ago when I was changing my car. The figures are approx,
    hence some 0-60 times may of been 0-62 (I didn't consider the
    difference to be very significant).
    
    This may explain Tony's observation about the 0-60 times in 
    different road tests. This figure will vary of course depending on
    road and weather conditions and also depends on how many
    people are in the car and if it has a full tank of petrol.
    
    Roy

Re: .109


The GSi is the new label for the GTE  same car.


The GTEi no longer exists.

Re: .113


The Nova GTEi is also a luke-warm hatch...I've never said otherwise !


anyway I've already taken on an XR2i and it was no problem to get infront of 
and stay infront of....

Must have been the drivers :-)

    8^)

    
    And of course the figures depend on what you read...
    
    8.1 is Autocar & Motor's figure 0-60 for the 16 valve Calibra,
    Performance Car claim 7.6 (their test) for the same car.
    
    Both sound ok to me, but there's a noticeable difference in half a 
    second.
    
    Mark

    I had some fun with a shiny black Fiesta RS Turbo last night, in my
    chipped Escort RS. I gave him three chances and everytime I just blew
    him away in second gear. It was so easy that at first I thought he must
    be just running it in :-) In the end he flashed me to pull over and
    asked if I had a Cosworth engine under the bonnet, and couldn't believe
    how quick my car was when compared with his.
    
    I gave him the phone number of BBR and he's going to chip his too.
    Should be more of an even match then.
    
    BTW the quoted figure for the Escort RS in one of the previous notes
    was 9.2, but Ford quote 8.2, and the reviews I have read have matched
    this.
    
    I'm not exactly sure what the 0-60 of MY Escort is, but it seems to be
    somewhat better than that of a Fiesta RS ;-)
    
    Gary.

    
    Pity it wasn't a police car that "pulled" you over.
    
    Further than that your actions are not worth comment.
    
    Chris.

    Well Gary, I enjoyed reading your note :-)
    
    I agree that 9.2 figure does sound rather slow. I've just rechecked
    Autocar&Motor and that is the figure they quote in their Road test
    results section.
    
    Roy (I'm afraid my RS Fiesta is far from shiny at the mo)

     
    I always thought you were a boy-racer Gary, you've got to feel pity on
    the poor Fiesta owner though havn't you, he was probably given it as a
    Chrimbo present.
    
    Matt.
    
    P.S. Don't Irish police cars have riot shields 'n stuff around them,
    making them rather easy to spot?

    
    Who and why has .126 been set hidden.
    
    I didn't find it offensive or thought it broke any rules, written or
    otherwise.
    
    Perhaps further comments should be continued in 1650 where an attitude
    can be mellowed.
    
    I thought insurance rates in Ireland were high because of the troubles
    but I am beginning to think it has something to do with the drivers.
    
    Chris
    

    
    Aren't the high rates of insurance in N.Ireland partly due to the high
    incidence of joy riding (rather than the odds of your car being blown
    up or riddled with bullets), recently made popular on the mainland by
    the news items?
    
    If this is a big factor, it's not suprising 'our' rates are increasing
    too.
    
    Mark
    
    PS I'll vote for any party that advocates hang, draw and quartering
    for joy riders! :^)
    
    

    Yeah Matt they have bullet proof glass and armour plating which tends
    to make them rather leathargic and easy to beat :-) When they are in
    the landrovers, they are even easier :-)    
    
    I don't make a habit of racing people, but this chap tried it on in
    his evidently coveted shiny black RS Fiesta. I wanted to see just what
    the performance difference would be. It was a completely safe affair on
    a long straight stretch of duel carriageway with no other cars late at
    night.
    
    After this little "back-to-back test" as any motoring magazine would
    call it, we headed back into the centre of town adhering to the speed
    limits and driving safely.  Heck when I overtook him on the carriageway
    I even signalled, and also on the two roundabouts we went round on two
    wheels ;-). So don't give me any of this irresponsible j**k crap.
    
    In converstion afterward, it turns out that he is a really decent
    bloke. I think that going out and beating Fiesta RS Turbos is a really
    great way of meeting friends :-)
    
    When this bloke gets his chip, I'll have to borrow my mates new phase
    III Escort me thinks... now theres a real performance machine !
    
    Gary.
    
    PS I am really quite a careful driver and have never been involved in
    any accidents and have a clean licence. Heck last night I even let some
    "J**k" belt pass me in a 30mph limit at about 70mph. I just sank back
    into my comfy Recaro and though those "mello thoughts"... well thoughts
    of slow shiny black Fiesta RS's at least :-)

    Mark you are indeed quite right about the insurance rates over here in
    Northern Ireland. It is the high incedence of joyriding that is to blame
    and not (like most other things) terrorist activity.
    
    It's not as bad up here as it is in Dublin for instance, where leaving
    an RS anywhere is sheer folly.
    
    Soory if anyone found my note offensive, but I thought is was rather tame,
    when compared to some of the bad parking notes I have read :-)
    
    Turbonutteringly yours,
    
    Gary.

    re 0-60MPH time of Escort RS Turbo
    
    The original RS Turbo's 0-60MPH time was 7.2 seconds.  The later model
    Turbo's were made civilised for high production.
    
    Grant

>>>   <<< Note 833.130 by BELFST::FLANAGAN "Zoiks a giant hedgehog from Zog!" >>>


>>>    a long straight stretch of duel carriageway with no other cars late at
    
    Says it all really! (Duel is a fight; Dual is two of)
    
    Richard

    Gary, you mentioned that the guy in the Fiesta flashed you to stop and
    you obviously did. Weren't you a bit worried that he might yank you out
    of the car and punch your lights out :-) 
    
    Roy

>    I agree that 9.2 figure does sound rather slow. I've just rechecked
>    Autocar&Motor and that is the figure they quote in their Road test
>    results section.
    
    I seem to remember this mag had trouble with the 2nd to 3rd shift with
    a resulting poor 0-60 time.  Ford on the 2nd generation TS Turbo also
    temded to ship new cars out at or beloow the bottom end of the tolerance 
    for boost pressure.  When I had one I reset the boost to the top end of
    the tolerance, this resulted in a significant difference - LEGALLY. 

    No Roy I wasn't worried at all that the bloke in the Fiesta would come
    over and punch my lights in. Us RS blokes aren't at all like that you
    see :-) Na the "race" was all in good fun. Once he glanced over and saw
    my smiling face as I blew past him in the outside lane he knew that at
    least I was having fun. As I said he was a really dead-on bloke and we
    spend about 40mins talking car talk. He offered me a drive in his
    Fiesta as I have never driven one, but I declined as it was rather
    late. I'm sure I'll see him in town again soon, and it'll be one more
    person I can exchange happy flashes of the headlights with. I might
    take him up on that test drive too, whenever he gits his chip.
    
    A mellow, fellow RS driver.

    I am looking to buy a second hand car, Sierra estate or similar, but
    since the last reply in this conference was more than a year ago, I
    must be looking in the wrong place.
    
    Can somebody point me to the right conference ?      

    There are more recent notes in #4.*
    
    If you are particularly after an ex-lease vehicle you might want to
    phone Hertz. Check out #4.606 for some example prices and the phone
    number.
    
    Roy