Conference terri::cars_uk

	One of the earlier notes suggested that wheel balancing 'on the car'
	was a possible cure. Anyone know of somewhere near Reading that 
	will do this?

	Set mode /whinge=on
	I have tried wheel balancing (at several different tyre shops), 
	swapping wheels front to back, new tyres, new tyres by a different
	manufacturer, and have now been recommended by ATS to replace the
	wheels themselves (the pressed steel bits in the middle). I don't fancy
	this since a) I'd have to pay Volvo prices (PHH won't cough up) and 
	b)claim it back on Digital's insurance (thereby losing my entitlement
	to a no claims bonus letter). Furthermore it doesn't seem right to me
	that I must claim (falsely) that accident damage to all	five wheels has 
	occurred in an effort to cure a known susceptibilty of Volvo 340's.
	i.e. known susceptibility = fitting new wheels has a chance of failing
	too!
	
	Set mode /whingeless

	Ho hum. I knew I should have kept my 1965 Saab 96 after all.
	

re.20:

National Tyres at Basingstoke do 'on the car balancing', so maybe National at
Reading do as well? It cured a long standing problem I had with an Astra 
GTE.

/Dave.

    RE:<<< Note 399.20 by KALISE::THOMPSON "Jerry Thompson @IME 7769-8045" >>>
                 -< Wanted - anti wheel wobbler machine shop. >-
    
    I think I have experienced this problem (some years ago now) on a 340.
    
    Firstly, from personal experience, balancing the wheels on the car will
    probably not improve matters much. I was told at the time that the
    problem is something to do with the interaction between the cars
    steering/suspension geometry and *some* brands of tyre. I eventually
    got the problem resolved by getting all four tyres replaced, I am not
    sure if Volvo or the dealer paid for this - sorry I cannot remember
    what make of tyres I got either.
    
    Secondly, if you do get the wheels balanced on the car get someone who
    really knows what he is doing. The reason is that when the rear wheels
    (i.e. the ones connected to the differential) are balanced it must be
    done quickly before the diff overheats and is damaged. The heat/damage
    is caused by rotating one halfshaft while the other is stationary, this
    makes the pinions spin at high speed, for which they are not designed.
    I belived that if you have a limited slip diff you should not have this
    on-car balancing done at all! Anyway if your car is under warranty
    don't tell Volvo you have done this!
    
    - John.

    
    In the beginning of January I had two new front tyres put on my
    Vauxhall Calibra 16v. I also had the wheels balanced as usual and
    new weights put on. Within a week, the weights had come off !
    Since that time I have had 3 more sets of weights put on and
    each set have come off after a matter of a few days!
    
    Today I went to another garage who informed me that Calibras
    have "funny" wheels and should only have stick on weights
    not the usual clip on type !
    
    Has anyone else come across this ?
    
    Graham.

    
    
    Graham, Calibra wheels are best balanced with copious amounts of mud
    onthe inside of the rim, this adds to driving pleasure emensely.
    (doesn't it) 8*))
    
    Richard

re .23

My 16v has the 'standard' clip on weights. I've lost 1 in 112,000 miles
of motoring.

Clive

    I had the same problem on the Astra GTE, in fact on one tyre change I
    went back 3 or 4 time to get them to put the weights on properly!!
    Both the stick on and clip on ones fell off!!
    
    In fact, one set had fallen off with a big clonk in the wheel arch
    within half a mile of the depot I had just been in!!!!
    
    Eventually...... I got a set that stayed on.. for a while! and I heard
    all the excuses about Vauxhall wheels!!
    
    Dave.

    
    Help anybody??
    
    I've just purchased a '92 Volvo 440 (don't laugh - I love the ads
    and they're a good deal generally here in Holland!). I've had it
    just over two weeks now and did my Xmas trip back to the UK in it
    no problems.
    
    Anyway, its started to develop a steering wheel judder at around
    70-75 mph. Its much worse when there are people in the back and/or
    I've got stuff in the boot. The smoother the road, the worse it is.
    
    What's more, the car drifts to the right and generally feels very 
    lightweight and feathery when cruising on the motorway, so much so 
    that my wife does just not feel safe in it!!!
    
    I've had the wheels balanced which has not had much effect. Now,
    when the car is started from cold, the front brakes make a god aweful
    grunging noise. This goes once the car/brakes warm up. Of course, I keep 
    going back to the dealer (Nissan which dosn't help!) but he seems to be 
    fobbing me off with stories like - Oh, its probably salt on the discs 
    etc....)
    
    My question really from other 440 drivers is what should it feel like
    to drive around 70-75 mph in 5th. Doing this speed in 4th dosn't seem
    to be so bad. Is the handling fairly lightweight and feathery or
    is it solid and relaxing, as you would expect of a car in this class?
    Also, any suggestions as to what maybe causing the problems. One thing
    is that the two rear tyres are not identical makes although both radials.
    Could this cause wheel judder???
    
    Thanks in advance for any suitable advice.
    
    Dave
                                                    
                                 

    Presuming it's the back to blame....
    
    I doubt the two different tyres are to blame. Technically it is
    preferable to have the same tyres on one 'axle' (ie. identical pairs at
    each end) but I don't think NOT doing this would cause such a drastic
    wobble as you describe.
    
    A knackered wheel bearing sounds most likely. Do you get a deep,
    groaning, whining noise, particularly when going round a corner, but
    only one way (ie. right hand bends cause a whine, but left hander's
    don't particularly - or vice versa). This would point to a dodgy
    bearing. Remedy - replace it (in fact, you might as well replace both).
    Otherwise we could be looking at damaged suspension - you haven't hit
    any curbs particularly hard recently, have you?! Bushes may be to
    blame, but I'd go more with the bearings myself...
    
    If it's the front, a lot more could be to blame due to the steering
    components, but the idea is the same.... bearings, or bushes, etc..
    does the steering wheel wobble/judder when the problem occurs? This
    would point more to the front suspension than the rear as the cause of
    the problem.
    
    As for the brake squeal... check the pads and/or replace them, and
    apply a little anti-squeal paste (CopperSlip is what I've always used)
    to the back of the pads. Ensure any anti-squeal plates are re-inserted
    back into the calipers. If all seems fine, it may be a stone, although
    I doubt it. Check thoroughly. If all else fails, it may be a warped
    disc or bent caliper assembly, which could point to the previous
    problem too....
    
    Good luck!
    
    Dan

    Silly suggestions wrt the wander and vibration....
    
    You have checked and corrected the tyre pressures, haven't you?
    
    Did you get all four wheels balanced?  And were they all spot on? 
    Sometimes a mvery inor imbalance plays havoc at a particular speed.

    Re: -1
    
    Yes, the pressures are fine and the garage assured me they balanced the
    wheels..... :-)
    
    Re: -2
    
    Yeah, I was thinking maybe wheel bearings or bushes. There is no
    noticable groan when cornering and I've yanked on the wheels and they
    are rock solid. I got the wife check the suspension this morning and
    its not spongy, pretty solid. One additional part to the story is that
    the reason the rear tyres are different makes is because 25 glorious
    miles into owning this car, I blew a rear tyre at about 80 mph in ice!
    Kwik Fit didn;t have the same make as was already on (Uniroyal) and so
    I took what was going, Vredenstein I believe. Could be I damaged
    something when I got the blow out. This will of course not be covered
    by the warranty..... Oh God.......
    
    Anyway, keeping it all coming folks, especially what a 440 should
    really feel like as I've never driven/owned one before this.
    
    Dave 
        

    Did this problem only occur after the blow-out?

    Mmmmm, not totally sure. As I said, I'd only done 25 miles and not
    fully loaded and not really at speed. I do remember test driving it
    and there was no wandering off the road as that is one of my little
    tests. Also, I don't think I would have bought the car with symptoms
    such as these so, yes, perhaps the blow out is the cause. This maybe
    is confusing however as after agreeing to buy the car, they did a full
    service and one thing that was on the report was that the wheels were
    balanced during the service.
    
    If it was the blow out, any ideas???? Wheel alignment perhaps?
    
    Dave
    
    

    It's not usual for there to be any 'wheel alignment' on the
    non-steering wheels, but I don't know about Volvo's so it could be a
    possibility. A damaged rim would surely show up on the balance machine
    so it's something 'hub-inwards'.... hmmmmm.... interesting!!
    
    Concentrate on the wheel that had the blow-out, I suppose. Maybe the
    juddering is coming from the front - how's the steering? Maybe the
    blow-out wheel is just a red herring......

    If its under warranty as you say, then take it back and demonstrate the
    problem to them. Regardless of the fact that you had a blow out, they
    should still check it out for you as there is so far nothing to prove
    that the puncture has caused the problem.
    
    It sounds suspicious that the blow out occured after such a short
    distance since you took over the car. It could suggest that the car had
    been standing for some time and the tyre(s) were in bad state.
    
    Best of luck and keep us posted.
    
    Royston

    
    Yeah, I reckon the blow out is a red herring.
    
    I reckon the juddering is coming from the front right wheel. The
    steering is fine below 70 mph, wobbly 70-80 mph and lightweight
    and not very reassuring after 80 mph. The brake grunging sounds
    like it is coming from the front right wheel as well.
    
    The garage are gonna at least tackle the pull to the right on Saturday
    so I'll keep you posted. I'm beginning to think warped disc or perhaps
    bearing. My neighbour has a 460 so I will ask him if I can have a
    spin up the motorway this evening to see what it should really
    feel like.
    
    Dave
     

Just a thought from a non-car-techie!

Why not try swapping the "blowout" wheel with the spare wheel, and see
if the juddering still happens.

At least that way you can tell whether or not it is the wheel itself
that is cauising the problem,

mb

    That's actually a very valid point - try it, just to eradicate the
    wheel possibility......

    On the newer cars they have litened the wheels. If the air gun used to
    tighten the wheel after they changed the tire was set up with too much
    torque. This may have bent the hub or wheel.
    
    On the newer cars the wheel nut torque is very precise.
    
    Just a guess
    Fred                         

    
    Re: -2 and -3
    
    Nice try but Volvo in their infinite wisdom supply spare wheels that
    look like they should be on my son's Go-Kart rather than on a car!
    All to save a few kilos - max 80 kph - get you home if you're lucky!
    
    The brake noise seems to have dissipated so perhaps it was dirt or
    salt or whatever. The latest balancing act does seem to have improved
    things slightly although I still do get a bit of a wobble at 120 kph
    - 130 kph and the steering seems to lighten up quite a bit at this
    speed - is this a feature????. Perhaps sorting out the righthand drift 
    will eliminate the problem altogether. Heres hoping!!!!
    
    Thanks for all your thoughts and advice so far......
    
    Dave
    
    
    

    I had a Cortina that had a very similar problem after being driven
    through a hedge. After much messing about and many visits to the garage
    it was decided the shocks needed replacing. Hertz/PHH wouldn't let them
    do it as the lease had only 8 weeks to go. It's worth checking them out.
    
    Guy