Conference terri::cars_uk

    I moved this note from 576 to this space as the responces that I
    received thought it would be more appropreate as a reply to this
    note. I would like to thank those that responded with infomation
    on chris neil and other replies on where this note belongs. 
    
            <<< MARVIN::DISK$ROBIN:[NOTES$LIBRARY]CARS_UK.NOTE;1 >>>
                            -< CARS_UK conference >-
================================================================================
Note 576.109                Driving & Racing kitcars                  109 of 114
FXNBS::ANDERSON                                      18 lines  27-APR-1990 20:21
                     -< Info on Chris Neil Sprint wanted? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm in need of information on "Chris Neil Sprint". I have a poor
    example of a Lotus Elan S2 that has seen more than its fair share
    of problems. I bought the Elan after it had a carberator fire and 
    had burned a fair amount of the fire wall and right front fender.
    Since that time, the fiberglass had been repaired and a few road 
    miles later(very few) more problems came its way in the form
    of a 7 Ft. tidal surge that totally submerged the Elan for several
    hours. At this point the body has been off the frame since 1978 and
    is in need of considerable work (some rot and slightly bent).
      Most of the rubber bushings and gaskets are cracked and beyond 
    being reused. What I am left with is a basket case that needs 
    substantial investment in time,parts, and money.
      If any of you know or are familiar with what Chris neil has to offer
    in his CN Sprint kit I would appreciate all information that's
    available. 
    
                                Thanks
                                 Gary  

    You may also want to check Spyder for frames - they also carry some
    nice replacement suspension pieces and bushings.  My last address for
    them (this is old) is:
    
    	Spyder Limited
    	Station Road Industrial Estate
    	Whittlesey
    	Peterborough, Cambridgeshire
    	PE72EY
    	Peterborough (0733) 203986
    
    Their frame is supposed to be an improvement on the original Lotus
    frame.  Some friends here in the US have them and they look pretty
    good.  Lotus has new, galvanized frames available, but I don't know the
    delivery and pricing.
    
    Suspension bushings and other rubber pieces are available from a number
    of places.  CN, Paul Matty, QED, etc.  see the ads in Thoroughbred and
    Classic Cars.  They are certainly easier to find in England then the
    US.
    
    	-Barry-
    

	Dropped in on the annual Lotus meet at Castle Combe circuit
	last saturday. Not a lot different from when I used to go with
	my own car apart from the fact that the majority of cars looked
	in impeccable condition whereas it always used to be the reverse.

	A few points.

	* Had a good look at the new Elan. Still don't like it. I hope
	it proves to be reliable because I've rarely seen so much poked
	into such a small space as at the front of this one. I was
	impressed by how smooth and quiet it was. This was just an
	observation I didn't get to drive one.

	* On the circuit it performed much as expected. However even
	driven very enthusiastically it was no match for a powerful
	7. There's surprisingly little difference in performance between
	the various models. The only really noticeable factors being that
	Turbo Esprits have got a lot more acceleration at higher speeds
	than the other true road cars, but can't match good 7s until
	very high speeds are achieved.

	* Also there was Lotus No 2, the Austin 7 special recently
	rediscovered. It was running too - just.

	* It was very sunny

	-John

	What bodywork did the Lotus 2 have.

	I used to own one back in '55. Austin 7 engine with Cambridge head,
double valve springs,etc. Had a bad habit of breaking half-shafts.

	As for the brakes!!! I used to look for a gap when I put them on!!
they were cable front and rear. The front end was Ford . I'll have
to do some real concentrating to remember much more.

	ken

>>                      <<< Note 71.35 by UKCSSE::PARKER >>>

>>	What bodywork did the Lotus 2 have.

	Well all I can distinctly remember was that it was very roughly
	hewn aluminium (quite thick), mainly just simple semi-circles. 
	There were no seats as such, just framed from the alloy as on
	a Lotus 7.

	There was a board with lots of detail on it's known history,
	but I can't remember it with sufficient accuracy to record here.
	
	Please tell us about this one you had. I know the man who now
	has No 2, and I'm sure the Lotus people are very keen on any
	more info on early models. Was this car a Lotus?, the very early 
	ones don't have any identification plates as such, but there 
	were many specials based on Austin 7s

	-John

    Todays L'Equipe has a couple of photos of Esprit prototypes. Biggest
    difference is in the engine compartment, with the ZR1 V8 slotted in
    place - a 32v 5.7. The new car is rumoured to be raedy for the next
    Birmingham show when an Elan 2+2 and hardtop will also be displayed.

    
    Does anyone have Paul Matty's telephone number handy (Fax would be
    better) also has anyone had any dealings with them, Good or bad ?
    What if any alternatives are there to PM's, I'm interested in a
    Europa and/or Elan DH's (not 2+2 ) 
    Do the Lotus centre in Norwich only have newer cars ?
    
    Thanks 
    Garry.
    

    
    Heard last night that Lotus are going to do a Managment buyout from GM,
    Could this mean the reintroduction of the Elan ? Anyone more info on
    this.
    
    
    

>    Could this mean the reintroduction of the Elan ? Anyone more info on
>    this.
    
    
Ooooh, dreaming :-)    

I heard on TV last weekend that Lotus have been bought by Bugatti - 
does anyone have any more details?

Cheers,

Graham.

    Yes, I read that in the times the other day. Apparently they have
    bought the company but the name will stay, but I can remember much
    more.
    
    

I saw a spectacular 1992 model Lotus over the weekend - in original green, with
gold writing.

It was the push-bike that Chris Boardman rode to the Gold medal at Barcelona
last year, and can be seen at the new Olympic Museum at Lausanne. 

The museum itself is pretty kitsch - a flame burning outside, major display of
the different torches from all of the Olympiads, lots of high-gloss videos etc. 

-Steve

    On Beyond 2000 (Discovery channel) a few nights back they had a segment
    on Lotus. Basically they have hooked up a test car (Citroen AX) with
    microphones and speakers and these are used to eliminate the engine/car
    sounds (in the case of an AX this includes a number of frustrating
    rattles). The mikes pick up the various noises in the car (including
    the engine rev noise) and with a bit of electonics they cancel out
    these sounds to make the car really quiet. Then they had a device which
    simulated the engine noise eg. F1 and high powered street cars and then
    you "thought" (sound wise) that you were driving one of these cars. It
    was even linked into the accelerator and so when you floored it or
    pulled away gently the engine rev noise was correct.
    
    Anyone else see it?

    The inventor was on the big breakfast a few months ago. Marketing it as
    a boy racer gadget.
    
    They made the citroen sound like various exotic sports cars.
    
    Very useful
    
    NOT!!

    
    Lotus have been developing this for a long time now, I've seen several
    articles on it. I think it's a brilliant idea, it basically cancels
    out noise it detects by playing the 'opposite' noise. So, you can travel
    in simulated silence - even in a Citroen AX, probably more likely to
    be fitted as standard to Jags, BMWs and the like though.
    I don't really see the point of the simulated race car sound, but it 
    sounds like fun anyway.  
    
    Al.

    I wondered just how many times a driver ended up putting their foot
    down and ended up going too fast just to "hear" the power of the
    engine! 
    
    I think the "simulated race car sound" was just to show you what could
    be done.

    
    Make Diesels sound like real cars? Can they do the same with the smoke
    out of the back end?

    BMW had a "noise-canceller" some time ago, but drivers who tested it
    didn't like it as they couldn't hear the engine at all.

    Bugatti has bought Lotus Cars last week. There seems to be some
    suggestions, they might build some metal bodied Lotus cars. Lotus are
    now free of motor giant GM. Hope Bugatti can work some magic on Lotus.
    
    Gabriel 

    This is probably sacrilege, but perhaps Bugatti might consider putting
    a 6 cylinder engine in the Lotus. The Lotus has always seemed poorly
    served by it's pathetic engine choices. There are no "real" sports cars
    with less the 6 pots IMHO (I don't like the 944 either).
    
    Rupert

    
    Re.-1 
    
    Obviously from someone who has never driven one (944).
    
    99,600 kms on mine at the mo, will hit the big one this weekend on the
    way back to Switzerland (530 kms)

    Correct, I've never driven a 944, but I've never wanted to after owning a
    911 Carrera (6 very sexy sounding cylinders).
    
    Rupert

    
    Ah the old 911 ploy huh? Had one of those back when for 60,000 kms.
    Great for country lanes, but no good as a long distance car ....
    sexy? Sounds like a washing machine, and they're not too sexy!

    Strange that Porche can only sell 911's - no one seems to want
    944s/958s. Must be the detergent they use in the washing machine
    engine!

    
    So you had a new one huh?
    
    Are you sure we're talking about the same marque? PorSche!

    Well...my wife wrote it off 3 years ago last month (tends to stick in
    my mind), she escaped without injury. And it was three years old when I
    bought it. It was the '87 model with the hydraulic clutch etc. At the
    time prices were dropping through the floor and I felt reluctant to
    "re-invest". However I promised myself I'd get another one someday.
    
    Obviously time has dulled my memory of how to spell the manufacturers
    name - but I still remember the engine!!                           

    Bugatti have announced that at least another 800 Lotus Elan's are to
    built and it is possible future Lotus cars will be styled in Italy. 
    
    Gabriel

 Just read of the passing of Innes Ireland, one of Lotus early F1 drivers.
    Hewon Lotus' 1st F! race at Watkins Glen in 1961. Had the pleasure of
    seeing him drive at Laguna Seca in the early '60's, and the esteemed
    pleasure of watching him at the US into of the BMC Mini  in the early
    60's. BMC staged a demo race on grass at a large California ranch;
    Innes was nudged (I think by Brabham, at least a driver of his
    standing; BMC spared NO expense at this function) and poor Innes rolled
    the Mini about 10 times; it looked more like a Polo Chukka than a race!
    Anyway, I enjoyed his contributions to Road & track and to motor racing
    in general.  

Hi,

Does anyone have the address and phone number of a Lotus dealer in
either Kent or Sussex?

Thanks in advance,

Graham.

    Whilst in Australia on holiday I recently saw a phograph of the new 'Elan 
    S3' being tested for it's new air conditioning unit. 
    
    This is the new Kia which is a re-badged Elan after Lotus sold Kia the 
    production line.
    
    As Isuzu don't make road car engines anymore, this will have a Kia
    unit in it. I hope that they don't export it and spoil the reputaion
    of a great sports car.
    
    Simon Hird
        

re las few


Do Kia actually make engines?  Considering their "heritage" I'd half expect a 
Mazda unit to turn up in the "Elan".

    If they do sell the thing for ~13k I wouldn't have thought it would do
    the value of second Elans much good. Granted, the older ones could
    be considered 'pucker' Lotii, but still, 13k for a new one when some
    poor shmucks have just shelled out 25k+ is bit of a bummer.

    
                           
    
    I am considering opting out of the company car scheme within the next
    few months and purchasing my own car. One of the cars I have considered is
    a Lotus Esprit Turbo.
    
    Has anyone got any thoughts on this car, what are they like to drive,
    are they reliable (I have heard various nightmare stories concerning
    reliability of older Lotus' in general)? In fact any buying advice 
    would be appreciated as I know relatively little about the cars.
    
    Does anyone know the differences between the various models in the Esprit
    line up, i.e. Esprit S3, Esprit HC, Esprit Turbo SE etc (I've heard the
    later the car the better)....
    
    I would probably be looking at an F or G plate Esprit, prefably the
    Turbo, spending around 13,000. Am I being too optimistic?
    
    
    Many Thanks,
    
    Graham
    
    

    
    I too considered buying a lotus and then found out that the body panels
    are part of the chassis and need re-tightening every 1500 miles, the
    water pump ( a push in fitment ) has to be replaced every 20000 miles -
    this entails removing the whole engine. 
    
    Clive Brooker in the CSC is the man to talk to, he looked into it in
    some depth, and it was on his advise I decided to look for a different
    car.
    
    \_spike_/

    Spike,
    
    
    Thanks for the warning, I kind of expected the service costs to be high
    and the work required to be more than your average car. However water
    pump every 20000 miles....
    
    I think I'll see if I can find a Lotus dealer that can give me an offical
    list of costs and service work required on the Esprit.
    
    Whilst on the subject of Lotus dealers, does anyone know of any in the
    Southern area. There's one in Maidenhead (SGT I think) however they
    don't seem to have any older cars, and mainly deal with the newer Esprit
    S4's which are *way* out of my price league.
    
    
    Graham
                        
    

	As someone with vast experience of the older Lotus Cars ie. 
	original Elans etc I can assure you that their reliability
	is/was very poor in comparison with other cars of the period.

	However we enthusiasts managed, by doing the work ourselves,
	to run the cars at a fraction of the cost of cars of similar
	performance since the parts were cheap industry standard items.

	Early Esprits (S1, S2) were a mass of trouble without the 
	advantage of cheap parts but by the mid 80s they seemed to
	have got most of these things well sorted out, although
	I can't speak from personal experience.

	The water pump problem relates to the Lotus-Ford Twin Cam engine
	not the later engines and I have never ever heard of anybody 
	having trouble with the body to chassis mountings.

	It certainly wouldn't be cheap motoring but in terms of Price-
	Performance they're very competitive. One reason I didn't take
	to the Esprit was that it's extremely wide, great for grip
	but awkward at other times.

	-John

    
    	I went to the London motor show yesterday.  My chief interest
    	was the Lotus stand - I've been in love with the Esprit for
    	years and intend to buy one at some point in the next few
    	years.
    	I was chatting with one of the Lotus chaps about getting one
    	of the older Esprits (not being able to afford 60 grand for a
    	new S4s!) and he said the best bet would be to get in touch
    	with the Lotus Club on 01362-694459.
    
    	Just sitting in the S4s and comparing it to sitting in the
    	MR2 T-Bar and a Nissan 200sx it's gorgeous!  Course, it's
    	a good deal faster than those tanks too :-)
    

    I too have been lusting after an Esprit, and don't particularly
    want to pay top money for a newish one. Since selling my 300zx, I've
    missed it so much and need a replace Chariot soon. Ever since Bond drove one
    in the Spy Who Loved Me, I've always wanted an Esprit.
                                                 
    Soon I think.
    
    Paul. 

    My dream cars have always been a Jag sedan and a Lotus Esprit.  I have
    the Jag.....the Lotus?????  I think it's gonna be a while before I get
    into one of those.  Pity.
    
    Brian
    

    Are they showing the Elise ? Is the price fixed ?

I had an H reg Esprit SE Turbo, and it really is a fantastic car.  The handling
is excellent, the performance breathtaking, and, in the year I owned it, it
didn't have any major problems.  The models that you are talking about, Esprit,
Esprit Turbo and Esprit SE Turbo fall under the S3 type I think.  Anyway, the
Esprit is the standard 2.2 engine, the Turbo is (surprisingly enough)
turbocharged, and the SE is a chargecooled turbo.  The SE is the quicker of the
three, and also has a higher level of trim. 

The advice that you will always hear with Lotii is to buy the latest model you
can afford, which I would agree with.  I would recommend the SE, because if you
are going to get one, then get the best.  I also wouldn't touch anything without
a service history.

Servicing is expensive, as you will only want to trust it to a Lotus dealer if
you want to keep the service history intact.  However, the problems I had were
mainly niggly ones, such as both electric windows packing up, and no engine
rebuilds etc.  Still, mainly due to the location of the engine, even a simple
oil change takes time and therefore money.

As for dealers, there is Kent Sports Cars (Canterbury?) who deal in second-hand
Esprits.  However, the other ones I can think of offhand are Norfolk Motor Group
(Norwich) who have one of the largest selections second-hand, London Lotus
Centre (St Albans) and Nelmes of Romford.  There are more, but these are the
names that spring to mind.  It might be an idea to decide which model you want,
and how much you can afford, then get these dealers to get in contact with you
if they get something in that meets your requirements. 

If you have any specific questions, then feel free to either ask them here or
mail me, and I'll do my best to answer them.

Cheers,

Farrell.

P.S. Don't buy one if you anticipate carrying a lot of luggage - a toothbrush is
about the limit! :-) 

    
    	Are 'they' showing the Elise?
    	Do you mean as in at the London Motor Show?  If so, then the
    	answer's yep.  Can't remember about prices though.
    
    	It's got a funny snout like the F50 - who'd want a car like
    	that...
    

    
    	The Elise didn't really interest me, so I didn't grab any flyers
    	etc. on it.
    	I can give you Lotus' phone number tomorrow if you like, and I'm
    	sure they'll be happy to send you some blurb when you tell them
    	you're thinking of giving Lotus Digital's car scheme contract ;-)
    

    Yes, thanks for the offer. I'll try and call them.
    
    Cheers,	Patrick		

    On the subject of locating car manufacturers, does anyone know of
    manufacturers on the web ?
    
    In the affirmative we could start a new note containing URLs.
    
    I've tried 
    			http://www.lotus.com
    
    It works !

    Very clever Patrick, I fell for it.
    
    	Rik

    
    	Lotus 'phone number appears to be 01953 608000, with a fax on
    	01953 608300.  UK numbers of course.  I guess they'd be able
    	to get you some info on the Elise or give the right number.
    
    	Pete
    

    
    Below is the contents of a mail from Patrick Peal of Lotus Cars.  He's
    given a taster of the new V8 Esprit.  Over 500bhp - the F50 only has
    around 520!  
    
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    *This* year's car - the all-new GT1 car, Lotus type 114,
    will run for the first time today or tomorrow.
    It has a race version of the new V8 engine, with a big
    single turbo and well over 500 horsepower.
    Customer cars on sale at 150,000 pounds sterling.
    
    The road car has twin turbos, with an all-new engine
    management system designed and developed by us working 
    with the hardware manufacturer. The system includes OBDII 
    which is now mandatory in the USA. The car will come in as 
    a '97 MY car, meeting all the standards for '97.
    
    Kind regards,
    
    Patrick Peal
    Lotus Cars
    

    Seriously looking at an Esprit now. Test drove a Griffith 500 the
    other day, incredible if a bit intimidating, going to test an Esprit
    soon to compare.
    
    
    What I'm worried about, and it might seem a daft question, but as it
    would be my only car is.... does the front spoiler clear multistorey
    car park ramps. I know it depends on the Ramp, but my 300zx barely
    cleared most NCP ramps.
    
    thanks
    
    Paul.

    
    	Find a car park when you test drive it ;-)
    	Pete$jealous

Re .88

As you said yourself, it depends on the ramp.  Had an Esprit for a year, and
ground the front slightly once or twice in car parks.  However, I also got
it on and off cross channel ferries and the Channel Tunnel without any
problems!  Just be careful first time in a new car park.

HTH,

Farrell.

    Well, I've got the car now. A bit nervous driving it as it does shout a
    bit being in Calypso Red (like a bright red Ferrari).
    
    Very very pleased so far.
    
    A trick for minimizing damage whilst driving over a sleeping policman
    is to approach it diagonally. 
    
    I didn't realise the car had two fuel tanks though. Two fuel fillers as
    well. The handbook mentions nothing of this, can I assume it's ok to
    put the fuel nozzle in either ?
    
    
    paul
    

    
    	You swine!
    	Two fuel tanks means you've got your Esprit, yes?
    	What one?
    
    	Can I have a go?
    	Pete$veryjealous.

    It's a 94 model S4. Calypso Red, 4,400 miles on the clock. I was lucky
    as the previous owner had several Jags and Astons so I recon the Esprit
    must have been his Sunday pose car. The condition is as new, not a
    single mark on it, not even any dirt in the nooks and crannies where
    you can't normally clean. Infact I made more scuff marks learning how
    to get in and out of it!
    
    I believe the tanks are connected but wasn't sure. Any other Esprit
    owners shed any light ?
    
    
    paul$chuffed

    Seen on the A11 on Saturday afternoon.....
    
    A bright red Elise - absolutely gorgeous!
    
    Paul

    
    	Yeah, I'm certain the tanks are connected, don't worry.
    	Not that I own an Esprit, but I'm in love with them.  I
    	still maintain that my first car will be an Esprit - it's
    	probably the only reason I haven't bought a car yet.
    
    	Have you ever seen the lotus-cars mailing list?  You could
    	ask all your questions there - those guys know just about
    	all there is to know, but you also get a lot of extra stuff
    	that kinda clogs up your mailbox.
    
    	So does it "corner like it's on rails" as Julia Roberts says
    	in Pretty Woman?  And do you feel like James Bond when you
    	drive it? ;-)
    
    	Pete$needsapayrisetobuyhiscar

There are really two tanks, with a pipe between the two to keep
the fuel load balanced across the width of the car.  If I remember
correctly, you will get more fuel in the tank if you fill it via the
drivers side fuel filler.

Hope this helps,

Farrell.

    that seems to be the case. I've been filling the near side tank and
    it's taking about 45 litres into a 70 litre tank (mind, the fuel low
    light had only just come on so there's a generous margin).
    
    The psycology behind other peoples behaviour towards the car when it's
    out and about is interesting. A topic in it own right.
    
    So far - very pleased, lovely car to drive. Gearbox is a bitch though.
    Heal and toe changes are out as well ;-( 
    
    
    paul

    I'm not really qualified to enter a note in this topic yet but
    (hopefully) in late August I will be.
    
    I have a Lotus Elise on order. I've had the order placed since last
    September! Looks like a real little flyer....should be able to test
    drive the yellow one at SGT this weekend.
    
    Cheers,
    Barry.

Laurie,

Please re-read the 'rules' of this conference. 
Snarfing has been banned, due to excessive
snarfing and the arguments it caused.

Simon

    Paul,
    
    Thanks for the info.
    
    I am buying this from SGT but as it is a new car and no finance
    involved I hope things will be straight forward.
    
    Having said this I don't really trust them....but then I don't trust
    any car dealers. I will look for other places to get the servicing done
    but it seems to be my most local Lotus dealer. (perhaps someone knows
    of another closer to Wokingham?).
    
    When it eventually arrives we must meet up to compare notes :-)
    
    Cheers,
    Barry.
    
    PS. What was the psychology of driver reaction to your Esprit?

    
    	You should get an HPI check done - that way you don't need to
    	worry about outstanding finance on the car.
    
    	Pete$statingtheobvious

    They had done this infact. They were well aware that my 39k buying
    price would not settle the 43k he owed on it. The Managing Director for
    SGT told me later that they sales chap (Guy Monday) didn't tell me this
    fact as he didn't wan't to put me off.
    
    Basically it wasn't theirs to sell. The owner was waiting for his new
    V8 Esprit and left his current one with them to sell.
    
    Your right about the HPI check though. I mistakenly assumed it was
    theirs to sell, I didn't expect a dealer to pull that kind of stunt.
    
    I (personally) would avoid SGT at all costs.
    
    In contrast, the one I did buy I bought from an Aston Martin & Jaguar
    delaer in Wellyn (sp?) Garden City. The service was impeccable. So
    professional it was actually a pleasant experience buying from them.
    They were Grange Jaguar btw. They deserve a mention i think.
    
    
    re the psycology of others towards the car, I'm putting it into
    words, slowly...
    
    
   paul

    This sunday on the Discovery channel there is something on concerning
    the Elise - they were talking about "from concept to showcase/showroom".
    
    I didn't get much in the way of info as I had just changed to the
    channel and got only the last few seconds of the advert.
    
    I had a look in the Sky sat guide and it had the program listed for
    20:00, 21:00 and 22:00 - me thinks this is not quite right!
    
    Dave

    The program on Discovery is a series as best as I can make out -
    they're just showing three of them in one evening. Each program is
    different though. They often do this on Discovery ( did it about the
    Oriana when that was launched remember - a full evening on it )
    
    So looks like its going to be a good sunday night !!
    
    Rick
    

    Ah Hethel - takes me back to my uni days in Norwich around the time of
    the Lotus glory days. 
    
    After watching the program [I saw the last of the three "episodes"] I
    wouldn't buy one for a year or two - not until the teething problems
    are ironed out! Or are all cars tested like this, for example, drive
    over to the French and Italian Alps and up/down a mountain pass or two! 
    
    Mind you I'll give them one thing they were very frank with the ups and
    downs of the whole thing.
    
    Dave