Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    This is a pointless exercise. Trim levels differ dramatically between
    countries even for GSi, Ghia badges etc, therefore such a comparison
    cannot be made.
    
    Chris
    

    Surely not so...
    
    Just taking 'my' car (ZX Volcane) shows it to be over 2K pounds more
    expensive in the UK -v- Switzerland... and I bet the Swiss one has to
    have a cat (which Citroen don't even offer as an option in the UK
    model). About the only thing a Swiss ZX 1.9i might have different is
    perhaps electric and heated mirrors both sides, rather than just
    unheated mirrors with electric only on the passenger side...
    
    Anyone in Switzerland know the full ZX Volcane spec.???
    
    Also, just take a shifty at the price of an Audi 2.0E in the UK -v-
    Switzerland... there's around a 40% difference (if not more) there: I
    suppose that's explained by the fact that a Swiss Audi doesn't have
    electric mirrors whereas a UK one does, or some such cosmetic
    difference? Cobblers. It's because Audi market their cars as "upmarket,
    BMW-like" in the UK, and we fall for it.... In Europe (particularly the
    Germanic countries), it seems to me that there is no snobbery attached
    to Mercs, Audis, BMs, etc. People there assume they will get a quality
    car, not have to have one marketed to them.
    
                                               
    
    |SD

    I think the small matter of local taxes might have some bearing....
    
    Are those prices base, or tax inclusive?
    
    Laurie.

    I'm not sure if this is the right note, but it is to do with car prices
    in the USA....
    
    I read in the February edition of the Robb Report (American mag), an
    article on how someone in the market for, say a BMW, could save upto 12% 
    on the US list price by popping over to jolly old Europe to collect the
    car, personally.
    
    The article listed out a number of European manufacturers who catered
    for the personal import/export market... Jaguar and Aston Martin were
    among them. (Rover was not listed, but I would be surprised if an
    American wanting to buy a Range Rover could not do the same as the guy
    wanting to buy a Jaguar... I suspect that Range Rover were not listed
    as the vehicle is classed as a truck in the States, and the article was
    aimed strictly at the (well-off) car buyer.)
    
    Anyway, sticking to the BMW example, BMW assumes that if you've gone to
    all the trouble of coming from America to Germany to collect your new
    Beamer, then you'll probably want to make a bit of a holiday of your
    trip. So they fit a European-spec radio/cassette to your car
    (different, wider band widths on Euro radios compared with US
    equivalents)... when your car finally arrives in the States it gets
    fitted with the US spec radio/cassette. If you choose to buy your car
    during the ski season, then BMW oblige with a weekend ski-pass for a
    (nearby) ski resort.
    
    Some of the manufacturers offer stuff like tours round their
    factories/museums. Hotel arrangements can be made as well.
    
    All the manufacturers listed  ensure that all customs/shipping 
    paperwork/details are organised. 
    
    The buyer litteraly only has to turn up to collect and drive/accompany 
    his/her new car. And remember all of this is to save upto 12% on (the
    already cheaper than the UK) US list price.
    
    Re: a few back which queried the relevance of comparing UK prices with
    car prices in other countries because of the different spec levels of
    the same vehicle in different countries.... (deep breath)... Last time
    I looked in the US of A there was a choice of at least 100 cars under
    the $10,000 mark, and included in this list was the Mazda MX-3.
    
    Now if you use the "spec" argument, then that would seem to infer that 
    it's very doubtful as to whether, in the USA,  the MX-3 comes with an 
    engine or not (comparing the UK price of the car)... or am I rambling
    again.
    
    Regudgitation
    
    Stephen  
    
    

...and I would still like to see lists if other people are prepared to help
out!

   If anyone wants to know the price of their car in Switzerland/France then
let me - I have complete price listings (except that Porsche seem to be missing
from my French magazine)...

    
    Will Swiss and French dealers come down on the asking price as much as
    dealers in the UK?
    
    I got 15.3% off my present car. Probably not a record but still a
    substantial amount.
    
    Chris
    

    Here in Belgium, prices are always quoted ex-tax.
    
    Laurie.

    Swiss dealers will come down 5-12% not much more to my knowledge.
    
    We (Digital) have deals with many garages to go the around 12%
    discount.
    
    Paul

     
    Jyri , 
    
    Mercedes 190 E 2.5-16                     502,300 	62,397
    
    I don't doubt you info but is this correct ? !!!!
    

    I am sorry to tell, but - yes it is correct...
    
    The cheapest Mercedes here is 190 E 1.8 which cost app. 200,000 FIM =>
    app. 25,000 Pounds.
    
    The cheapest 'car' here is Lada which costs app. 35,000 FIM => 4,300
    Pounds...
    
    - Jyri -

    I would be interested to see our Noters completing the exercise in the
    spirit in which it was offered. I expect the price to be the amount of
    money I would have to give to the Seller to enable me to drive away my
    new car. ( In the UK this figure should include Car tax, VA Tax, Number
    Plates, Delivery charge, Road tax & any other unavoidable expense, less
    any discount I could REASONABLY expect to receive). Hopefully we should
    quote nearest possible equivalent.
    
    I just do not believe that we in the UK pay a similar price to that of 
    our friends in Belgium, Holland etc.
    
    TJ.

    The prices quoted from Finland are almost exactly the same as the Irish
    Republic prices, give or take(mostly take) fifty quid or so.
    You dont have to travel that far to be ripped off. 
     ;'>

Re .21

Well, the Chevrolet Cavalier isn't considered to be a sporty-handling car by
many Americans. Like most GM products in the US, it's targeted at a broad
market, trying to meet the needs of many car buyers, most of whom use the car
to take the kids to school, pick up some groceries, drive to-and-from work,
and drive to Grandma's on the weekend. 

The power door locks and seat-belt on the door thingies are the result of our
wonderful government trying to protect us from ourselves. The car manufacturers
can get around the seat-belt-on-the-door by installing an airbag, but that
costs extra money. 

The brake-required-to-get-the-car-out-of-park is a direct result of the Audi
"Unintended Acceleration" problem from a few years ago. Though it was 
sufficiently proven to most people that the problem was with the driver's
in question not knowing which pedal they were pressing, many car manufacturers
have taken this step to protect themselves from the all-American lawsuit.

The door-open gongs have been in American cars since the ealy 70's, if not
sooner. I remember my '73 Ford Pinto had the sealt-belt buzzer and the door-ajar
buzzer. Again, it's the big brothers in the Federal Government protecting us.
8^)....

Why do the American auto manfacturer's build this type of car???  Why is the 
American auto business in such trouble???  Could it be that the questions are
related???

Bob.

    Coming from another yank with a Cavalier:
    	Mine is a 1983.  It has gone 260,000 miles at around 32MPG.  Until
    last summer 230K the original engine and transmission hadn't been
    worked on in any significant way.  At that time the original engine
    needed new piston rings and valve lapping, etc.  Since I had a spare
    engine handy I installed it.  Besides that other than routine
    maintenance the car has only needed a couple of sets of alternator
    brushes and a couple of wheel bearings.  This has all been with the
    previously mentioned pounding on potholed and dirt roads, etc.
    	The american manufacturers may not make the most appealing car, but
    when they get it right they build something that will outlast a
    japanese car by a factor of two or more.
    						John
    

Re: .21

    The power door locks lock automatically when you move the gear lever
    out of park. It doesn't open all the locks when you unlock the drivers
    door. 

This is an excellent security feature.  I have always thought that the
common system here where all doors unlock at once is really stupid.  An
ill-intentioned person can easily (especially after dark) hide at the 
other side of the car and open the door to get in and attack the driver
when it unlocks remotely.

	A gong sounds if you insert the ignition key with the drivers'
    door open. It sounds again if you start the engine without the seat
    belt. The seat belts are attached to the door(!). Oh, and you can't
    move the gear lever out of park unless you press the footbrake.

These are all safety features.  The gong can easily be avoided by closing
the doors and fastening the seat belts before you put in the keys and
start the engine.  The need to operate the brake is not confined to the
US.  I parked next to a large Merc at the supermarket last week and took
a look inside.  It has exactly this feature fitted.

jb

    re .21 and so on;
    
    I was in the office over the weekend, and used the empty car
    park to test the ABS on my hired Chevrolet Cavalier....
    
    I'm pleased I haven't needed them, as they are pretty useless!
    
    The ABS on this car allows the wheels to lock up, and then releases the
    rear wheels, leaving the front end still locked! I guess it's a cheap
    mechanical system, but the performance of it is not too useful.
    
    It was the same in both the dry and the wet.
    
    Peter.
    

>>    park to test the ABS on my hired Chevrolet Cavalier....
    
    Obviously none too effective in preventing wheel lock-up (even if
    that is what it is for !), but maybe it has some benefit if you
    brake hard with left/right wheels on different (wet/dry ?) surfaces.
    
    J.R.

    Which cars do better than average?
    
    Better still, is there a table around somewhere? 
    
    Malcolm