Conference terri::cars_uk

Does "metalled" mean the ordinary tarmac / asphalt / concrete sort of road
surface.

I don't think it would be a good idea to remove this.  Some people need access
via these roads, and they could easily become impassable in winter if they
didn't have a proper surface.  There are lots of people who don't own (or don't
want to own) 4wd off-road buggies, but un-metalling some roads would either
force them to move or acquire such transport.

They are also popular for cyclists, due to the lack of traffic, and cyclists
souldn't use them if they were unmetalled.  And what about pedestrians?  Not
everyone wants to walk around in wellington boots...

No, not a good idea.  Sounds like a way for the Highways Dept
(or whatever they call themselves) to save money at the expense of the
Community Charge (non-) payers...

Scott

    I don't know about "Green Lanes" but how about "Lorry Lanes" ?
    
    On Friday evening ( on the M25 ) the front of my friend's car was
    almost ripped off by a lorry that indicated, and having indicated 
    that he was going to move out, just moved out ! 
    
    There were two lorries, from the same 'Company', and they seemed
    to be playing 'Cat and Mouse'. If lorry #2 indicated to move out,
    lorry #1 ( who was in front ) would move out as well ! 
    
    When lorry #1 indicated to move out -- this strategically timed at
    the point where lorry #2 could not/should not pull out -- lorry #2 
    would indicate and pull straight out, Kamakazi style ! and without 
    checking whether the car behind/alongside had any room to slow down 
    or move into another lane ! 

    Both lorries were apparantly trying to "stick together".
        
    I had observed this happening until Junction 9 of the M1, where we
    decided to "get out" ( onto the A5 ). If only my friend had a phone
    installed in his car I would have bothered to phone the Police ! 
    
    Add to this last night's ITV programme ( Consumer Watch ? ), which was 
    even more horrific !, then you really *DO* start wondering :
    
    *  Why can't *ALL* lorries be allocated a 'Lorries Only' lane(s) ? 
    
    *  Why aren't lorries 'tagged' ( as Police vehicles are ) with some 
       sort of *LARGE* reference/sequence number. At least this would be
       visible in high speeds/reduced lighting, and the offenders may be 
       easily identified ?
    

Lorries, and all other vehicles, are tagged.  They have a yellow plate at the
back, and a white one at the front.  The same number is on both in large
black letters, usually in the form X 999 XXX or XXX 999 X.  What other tagging
do you need ;-)

Scott

    
    Very good, mate, but what if these lorries "cut you up", dash into 
    the far-left lane and speed away ? and the lighting is poor ?
    
    These were the conditions I came across and trying to make a note 
    of the registration is pretty difficult. The 'tags' I was thinking
    about are, say, 2-3ft high and easy to read ( e.g. WD40 ;-)
    
    Similar to Police vehicle 'tags' -- which, incidently. also have a
    X999 XXX or XXX 999X marking ;-)
        

If lorries can speed away from you, I suggest you get a new car...

;-)
;-)
;-)
;-)

But realistically, I can see your point.  Most lorries have their number plates
obscured by years of grime anyway...  A similar thing happened to me some time
ago; they think just because they're big they can force their way through...

Fit a missile launcher to the front of your car to get revenge!

Scott

re the subject...

I live on one of these roads. If someone suggests removing the surface, thats
fine by me, but I expect a reduction in my costs as well. Lest see, poll
tax went up 100% from my rates, how about a 50% reduction?

Jc

In the US these days, a large number of trucks have a sign on the back that 
says something like  "What do you think of my driving ?", then gives the company's
phone number and invites you to call up and report instances of bad _or_ good
driving, often quoting a large reference number.


Whether the companies act on the calls, I don't know, but you could
always do the same thing here.  Stop at the next phone, call the marketing 
or sales department of the company involved, and tell them what you think 
(good and bad) of the driver of truck no. XYZ. .... and point out the effect 
this could have on their public image.   

If we all did it, they'd pay attention !


.... but then, somebody might start doing it to DEC drivers........;-))

IanP

    
    Re .1 (I think) in North_East USA the winters are *far* worse than
    ours, and yet unsurfaced roads are much more common than here, and much
    more frequented (not exactly city centre traffic jams, but a few cars).
    
    They are left that way because they don't get anything like as frost
    damaged as thinly blacktopped roads. They are easier and much cheaper
    to repair in the spring.
    
    They are driveable in normal cars - you don't need a four-by-four.
    Believe I regularly negotiated a dirt road in up to 6" of snow in a 15
    year old rear wheel drive Buick... only time I ever got stuck in
    America was on sheet ice in a supermarket parking lot - driving a Jeep
    CJ7 in four-wheel-drive!
    
    Also pot-holes in dirt roads tend to be much gentler than potholes in
    thin tarmac - no sharp edges or vertical drops to the substrate.
    
    /. Ian .\
    

>    There are a lot of roads classified as "narrow single track with
>    passing places" and "metalled minor roads less than 4 metres wide". By
>    definition these are very minor, infrequently used roads and have very

It depends on waht you call "very monor" and "infrequently used".  I once
lived on a road of this type.  As far as I was concerned it was anything
but infrequently used - I used it every time I went anywhere.

I think the idea postulated in .0 is in general a non-starter.

jb

Whilst I agree that a minor road with houses on it is probably immune, I can 
think of far more of these roads that either have no houses on them, or only 
perhaps one farm.

The state of repair on these roads is not just deplorable it is downright 
awful. On one stretch I know of the potholes have joined up: no surface remains
over a few yards. Along about 500 metres of road the sides of the carriageway
have broken up leaving a decent surface narrower than the track of a normal
car.

I have given up using this stretch since I nearly ripped the exhaust off my 
vehicle (I had to have a suspension strap replaced). It had previously 
ripped a tyre to shreds.

I honestly don't think this stretch would be worse if unsurfaced.

Sad fact is that road repairs are funded out of a smallish pot of money and it
usually runs out before these single track lanes get repaired.

So no, as a blanket suggestion it is undoubtedly a non-starter, but now the
idea is in the minds of the highway engineers I would not be surprised to see
some of these minor roads reclassified as unsurfaced, for want of maintainance 
cash, just as some BOATs have been reclassified as RUPPs or bridleways for
similar reasons.

/. Ian .\
(who also lives at the end of a short section of "road less than 4 m wide")

    
    I live in South Stoke (Oxfordshire) at the end of a single track lane
    that is very slightly wider than my Espace...
    
    On the original question I had a word with my friendly highways
    engineer last night and he tells me that what they are actually looking
    at is: when a narrow road (not really the 4m roads, but those less than
    3m wide which are classed as "single track" because two cars going in
    opposite directions cannot pass and both remain on the carriageway)
    falls into disrepair, and funds are not avaiable, and the road isn't a
    priority case (eg somebody lives on it that is dependant on a car that
    might be unable to traverse an unsurfaced road), then they will
    consider reclassifying it as a BOAT. It will continue to be maintained,
    but at the lower requirements applicable to a BOAT. They do not intend
    removing the surfacing, but damaged sections will be removed and
    repaired as if the road were unsurfaced.
    
    So they don't intend a global reclassification, and they won't do any
    reclassifying unless funds run out...
    
    /. Ian .\

    
    << A narrow road (not really the 4m roads, but those less than 3m wide
    << which is classed as "single track"
    
    As a man who lives in South Devon (between Torquay and Plymouth) this
    description covers about 60 per cent of the roads in my area. If they
    stop maintaining these, I'll never get back from the Pub. (Nothing
    stops me getting there)