T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
1150.1 | Petrol always goes up | VOGON::COLE | Mike, TPAG Product management, 830-6571 | Thu Jul 26 1990 16:36 | 3 |
| Almost - they went up (ESSO at 2.04 pounds). Are you surprised?
Mike
|
1150.2 | Up, up and away | DOOZER::JENKINS | | Thu Jul 26 1990 17:10 | 12 |
|
I believe the MMC report (wether preliminary or final) was published
some weeks ago.
They agreed that there was no evidence of the oil companies operating
a cartel. Maybe its the retailers like Heron who fix the prices?
In the meantime the prices only go up and the oil price fluctuates
wildly.
|
1150.3 | Up, up and up again :-( | FERNEY::SMITH | Next chapter of life coming soon. | Thu Jul 26 1990 19:21 | 6 |
1150.4 | Correction - $21 | ARIANE::SMITH | Next chapter of life coming soon. | Fri Jul 27 1990 18:23 | 1 |
|
|
1150.5 | OUCH! | PEKING::GERRYT | | Mon Aug 06 1990 17:35 | 7 |
| And what are they now ?
Such a topical subject in the light of the Kuwait invasion.......
September Brent crude trading at over $26 this morning...
Watch Out all drivers!
timbo
|
1150.6 | | NEARLY::GOODENOUGH | | Mon Aug 06 1990 18:25 | 9 |
| The price went up by over a dollar a barrel in the half hour between
two business slots on BBC Breakfast News this morning. Should be about
$50 by this evening at that rate ...
My solution: don't boycott Iraqi oil - just don't pay them.
Jeff.
|
1150.7 | Why don't they quote in litres? | FERNEY::SMITH | Ex FYO, now WLO | Mon Aug 06 1990 20:05 | 5 |
| Just heard on the radio that a number of petrol companies are
increasing the price of petrol from midnight tonight by up to 10p per
gallon.
Martin.
|
1150.8 | | TASTY::JEFFERY | Tears of disbelief spilling out of my eyes | Tue Aug 07 1990 00:08 | 5 |
| >> My solution: don't boycott Iraqi oil - just don't pay them.
I was thinking that. Why not?
Mark.
|
1150.9 | Don't Understand | VOGON::MORGAN | Madman Across The Water | Tue Aug 07 1990 12:00 | 12 |
| Re. 7.
Why, when we have, acccording to 'informed sources', three months stock
of petrol in the U.K., do prices have to go up NOW ??. Surely the
petrol being bought now at the higher price will be sold after the
current batch that is currently in store so in theory the price should
go up in three months time ?.
Are the oil companies simply being greedy ??, again !!.
Rich
|
1150.10 | "Their" story | OVAL::GROOMN | BOY - it's HOT | Tue Aug 07 1990 12:47 | 6 |
|
Prices have gone up now to enable the oil companies to replenish
stocks. As the cost of replenishment has increased, they need to raise
additional funds (So they say).
Nev.
|
1150.11 | Greedy | IOSG::MARSHALL | Harry Palmer | Tue Aug 07 1990 13:24 | 5 |
| But I bet when the price of crude comes down they won't put the price at the
pump down as quickly! Then they'll probably say they've got three months
expensive oil to sell off first...
Scott
|
1150.12 | Not a lot of people know this....... | COMICS::COOMBER | It works better if you plug it in | Tue Aug 07 1990 14:36 | 24 |
| I used to work for BP so I have some idea how the price of petrol is
made up. Tax is the biggest part of the price and cost ,transportation
,refining,marketing come way behind in 2nd place. The profit margin is
, some time ago, is fairly small. Don't get me wrong I'm not sticking
up for this price rise, this price rise in my view is just plain money
grabbing. Something they don't own up to is, when a field like forties
starts full production they pay full Petroleum revenue tax, until then
they get away with paying a very much reduced rate of tax. They don't
complain about that or when there's spare oil about, they go and buy it
cheap on the Rotterdam spot market and still sell it as if they had
bought it from somewhere like saudi.
What about the oil thats in bunkers at refineries or oil that is in
transit in a tanker , thats all bought, maybe not paid for , but the
price has been aggreed. Normally oil ,avaiation fuel etc are paid for
something like 30 days after delivery.
The whole thing stinks!!!!!! The problem is that you and me are
powerless do anything about it short of stop buying the real money
grabbers petrol. I don't buy esso petrol normally and I sure as hell
won't now...
Garry
|
1150.13 | | OVAL::ALFORDJ | Ice a speciality | Tue Aug 07 1990 17:36 | 6 |
1150.14 | Where? | IOSG::BURTON | Thank God it's Fri.. Oh **** it's not | Tue Aug 07 1990 17:48 | 3 |
1150.15 | | OVAL::ALFORDJ | Ice a speciality | Tue Aug 07 1990 17:50 | 4 |
|
silly....
seems I was beaten to it....new topic already started :-)
|
1150.16 | | KERNEL::MOUNTFORD | | Thu Aug 09 1990 21:14 | 5 |
| Baring in mind OPEC have agreed to make up for the lost production
from Kuwait & Iraq,prices should not be changing at all. Considering
we pay around about 1.50 in tax for each gallon we buy, perhaps
we should write to our MP's & demand (re beg) that they reduce the
tax! Just a thought.
|
1150.17 | | NSDC::SIMPSON | Fist of fire | Thu Aug 09 1990 21:24 | 4 |
1150.18 | may have some effect here? | IOSG::MITCHELL | Elaine | Fri Aug 10 1990 12:17 | 8 |
|
On the radio this morning they were discussing petrol prices is the
USA, and saying that the President has been dropping hints about doing
something to the oil companies because of what is seen as taking
excessive profits - this has resulted in BP dropping it's price by a
few cents (because crude price is dropping again, so they said) and
some other companies putting a price freeze on for a week. The oil
companies have become the American Public's 'local bad guys'.
|
1150.19 | Current prices will seem cheap soon. | VULCAN::BOPS_RICH | his dusty boots are his cadillac | Fri Aug 10 1990 15:37 | 13 |
| On the telly recently, senior economist laying large part of the
blame for the current crisis on USA. ie because the USA public pay
such a low price for "gas", consumption is still far too high. He
then also said that all countries were paying too low a price
considering its all going to run out soon.
What is needed is to keep prices high so that demand decreases or
alternatives become economic. Then we wont care what tinpot dictators
do in the sand.
Sounds good to me.
Rich.(R5GTT to shank's pony soon)
|
1150.20 | | BOOKIE::DAVEY | | Fri Aug 10 1990 21:35 | 18 |
1150.21 | | CHEST::WRIGHTP | Tel: (0836) 299508, DTN 7782 2756 | Fri Aug 10 1990 21:37 | 2 |
| Avgas at Southampton goes up by 2p/lt from midnight
Paul
|
1150.22 | | PEKING::TAYLORG | Bodybuilders do it till it hurts | Wed Aug 15 1990 21:26 | 6 |
| On Jersey the pricec of 4* is 97p a gallon and Derv is around 60-70p
a gallon !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And income tax is 20%
Grant
|
1150.23 | Who's conning Who???? | COMICS::COOMBER | It works better if you plug it in | Tue Aug 28 1990 16:56 | 43 |
| With all the petrol price increases and cuts all atributed to this
nonsense in the gulf it occured to me today , how is the price of
Diesel effected in relation to petrol. I must confess I never look at
the price of diesel , mainly because I never use the stuff. Has the
price of diesel gone up in simular leaps and bounds. You always hear
that the petrol price has gone up but never a mention of diesel.
Now I may have grabbed the wrong end of the stick here but, if the
price of crude is going up in leaps and bounds , unless you get 3
buckets of diesel to 1 bucket of petrol per barrel, me thinks the price
should go up the same amount. Does it????????
I heard on the radio some bod from shell or someone saying that the
price on the rotterdam spot market had gone up. Now my understanding of
what happens in rotterdam is that the oil giants sell off surplus
stocks there, and people like Heron and non oil companies can buy the
stuff and sell it. If that wern't the case where does the oil and
petrol come from. In my dealings with oil sale and purchase , most of
the stuff is bought direct from Kuwait,Saudi, Oman and so on then
shipped to which ever refinery it was bound for. That stuff got paid
for on presentation of the bills of lading and if my memory serves me
correct payment would be 30 days after that.
Now a quick puzzle. If I'm paying for a shipment of oil today, ie: bang
on 30 days after loading, do I pay the price that crude is selling at
today or do I pay the price that was aggreed at the time sale. Most
smart cookies would pay an aggreed price and not some floating price.
So the final bit , how long has this gulf buissness going on??? How
long has the price of oil been going up???? Would the oil I paid for
today have been bought during this period?????
WHo's conning who?????
Garry
|
1150.24 | Difficult to judge. | CHEST::SAXBY | Is this personal or what? | Tue Aug 28 1990 17:05 | 9 |
| The oil companies argument is "Yes the current oil was bought before
the prices went up, BUT we have to buy now at the high price, so to
cover our costs we must charge higher prices for the existing stuff".
This is ok in principal PROVIDED that when the price drops they drop
the price on the expensive oil they bought. There have been drops in
prices recently, but never as much as the increase.
Mark
|
1150.25 | Monopolistic supply | PEKING::GERRYT | | Tue Aug 28 1990 17:35 | 20 |
|
Onto my soap-box!
I understand that some countries are putting limitations on the oil
companies....whilest the Gulf crisis is upon us.
1. How is it that the French and Spanish Governments (?)put a max. price
on petrol at the pumps and the UK Gov't say that they "don't want to
introduce draconian measures"?
I believe it just goes to show our lot are cap in hand with the large
multinationals and big business...and are soft when it comes to dealing
with monopolistic supply.
2. Of course, the large oil companies will cover-up their profits windfall
before they declare their profits every 6 months.
3. I've never seen so many oil tankers on the roads.
4. Even if the Gulf crisis comes to nothing, the oil companies will not
reduce their prices to fair levels...they'll explain it away with some
garbage about increased distribution/labour costs.
5. It's a good way of getting us all used to a #2 per gallon price.
Ouch!
|
1150.26 | The real con merchants! | CHEST::SAXBY | Is this personal or what? | Tue Aug 28 1990 17:40 | 12 |
1150.27 | Ah but.... | IJSAPL::CAMERON | Tempus fugit | Tue Aug 28 1990 18:09 | 22 |
|
Well according to the Sunday Times ( so it's got a far chance of being
half right ) the Office Of Far Trading will be investigating the
price hikes of petrol currently being done by the oil company cartel.
Sorry, I musn't use that word, cartel, as they officially aren't one.
The oil companies say they welcome it, as it will "clear the air", and
let consumers they aren't the baddies everyone thinks they are.
Their main argument is that they have an obligation to hold, "x" days,
or "x" million gallons of the stuff in reserve BY LAW . So even though
the stuff sold at the forecourts might have bought at the "pre-crises"
price, they still have to keep their reserve stocks up to the legal
limit. They then go on to say that in all probability the expensive
stuff will be sold at more or less the "normal" price, so things should
even themselves out
Well that was their argument, perhaps the OFT can shed a more official
light on the whole matter.
Gordon ( paying FL 1.87 for a litre of Euro 95 )
|
1150.28 | another day, another $ | HEAD::BOPS_RICH | his dusty boots are his cadillac | Tue Aug 28 1990 18:41 | 16 |
| An old friend of mine used to work for Mobil, up in the city. I
cant remember exactly how he said that petrol prices were calculated,
but I can assure you that it is MUCH MORE COMPLICATED than you would
believe. Its not a simple matter of buying some crude from country
A, putting it on a ship to country B, then refining it.
Its more like strike a deal with country A to buy some at x$, try
and then sell this deal to anyone for +x$, if not or the prices
change, fill the refinery or sell at Roterdam, make another deal
to sell the refined petrol, or in the least profitable case put
it into your petrol station network.
ie. Petrol companies try to make money from every stage AND via
ANY method.
Rich.
|
1150.29 | also..... | COMICS::COOMBER | It works better if you plug it in | Tue Aug 28 1990 18:49 | 18 |
| The fact that law dictates they keep so much petrol in storage seems a
bit cop out to me. Do they really expect us beleive that they refine
it on a when required basis. Even if they didn't keep the supply they
are required to keep surely they would have gallons of the stuff in
store anyway. As for the office of fair trading investigating them,
what are they going to find??? I suggest exactly what the oil companies
want them to find and nothing else. Figures say exactly what they want
them to say. They would be far better stamping on them now and then let
the oil companies prove them wrong. That way at least they would tell
the truth. If oil was such a looser ,why do the oil companies always
show profit ,and a healthy one at that.
The only thing I will say in thier favour is that if the tax on petrol
were not so bloody steep the price would not be anywhere near the price
it was before the gulf excuse.
Garry
|
1150.30 | Oil is going to be cheaper in FRANCE | TENERE::RAVIX | Don't worry ! be happy ! :-) | Wed Aug 29 1990 13:07 | 20 |
| HHi
Today the TV said that the petrol company will decrease the price of oil.
It's a good thing. The first company doing that is SHELL, but the others will
do the same. To avoid an important increase of the prices, the french government
freezed the prices two weeks ago, and the petrol company could not over passed
the maximum fixed by the government. Now the company decide not to go to the
upper limit of the oil price.
Good thing !
Oil prices in FRANCE:
Before Gulf problem : 5,05 Fr/liter
Three days ago : 5,88 Fr/liter --- A price for each day ---
Two days ago : 5,97 Fr/liter
Yesterday : 6,03 Fr/liter
Today : 5,90 Fr/liter
Philippe
|
1150.31 | Should this be in the Silly/stupid questions topic? | WELSWS::SMITHM | Ex FYO, now WLO [853 4352]. | Wed Aug 29 1990 16:15 | 4 |
| Why do we have to have x-days supply stored (in tanks?) when we have
years supply underground?
Martin.
|
1150.32 | 2.2p cheaper | COMICS::COOMBER | It works better if you plug it in | Wed Aug 29 1990 17:17 | 11 |
| Why is it that Sainsbury's can sell petrol 2.2p per litre cheaper
than the so called oil companies. Surley those in the business can
produce it cheaper and sell it cheaper??????
Maybe its because sainsbury's buy it throught the Rotterdam spot market
and therefore only have the transportation costs.
Its a funny old game.
|
1150.33 | | HAMPS::LINCOLN_J | John, Hampshire House, Basingstoke | Wed Aug 29 1990 17:26 | 7 |
| The 'markets' for oil are in the crude not refined variety.
The big supermarkets just buy from whatever petrol company
is selling cheapest and have smaller margins. They see it
as a way to attract people to their stores.
-John
|
1150.34 | Name dropping... | IOSG::MARSHALL | Harry Palmer | Wed Aug 29 1990 17:28 | 14 |
| I was speaking to one of the Independent's financial writers at the weekend.
He's been covering the petrol price increases, and when I asked him if the
price increases were necesary or profiteering, he said:
"To use the technical jargon, they're coining it in..." The big oil companies
are putting the price up solely to increase their profits; the Gulf dispute
just provides them with a convenient excuse.
The Government won't regulate the price (and I think they ought to) because in
the current economic situation in Britain, anything which reduces people's
spending power will curb inflation (or so they would have us believe). Interest
rates alone aren't working, so I think the Government are probably quite
pleased with the (temporary?) price increase.
Scott
|
1150.35 | Up again! - Boycott Esso! | HAMPS::NICHOLLS | I'm now SWISS too! | Wed Aug 29 1990 18:59 | 5 |
| Heard on the 2pm news - Esso are putting up their prices at midnight
tonight by 8.2pence, even though the barrel cost is half a dollar less
today than on Monday this week!
They are absoulute b@st@*ds!
|
1150.36 | Is this called the yo-yo syndrome ?! | IJSAPL::CAMERON | Tempus fugit | Wed Aug 29 1990 19:04 | 6 |
|
Esso putting their prices up ! Prices, over here, went down today by
a few cents litre.
Gordon
|
1150.37 | Says it all | COMICS::COOMBER | It works better if you plug it in | Wed Aug 29 1990 19:59 | 10 |
| I know what the man from the idependant said is ture, you try and get
the oil companies to own up to it.
I think the fact that supermarkets can sell at a smaller profit margin
says it all.
Garry
|
1150.38 | Going down.. | VOGON::MORGAN | Physically Phffftt | Wed Oct 24 1990 19:50 | 7 |
| Today - unleaded 1.85 a gallon in any Tesco garage, 4 star about
1.96/97
And long queues !!
Rich
|
1150.39 | | FORTY2::QUICK | Can you see him yet, Brad? | Wed Oct 24 1990 19:54 | 5 |
1150.40 | Big players still chage more... | COMICS::COOMBER | We come in peace, shoot to kill | Wed Oct 24 1990 19:57 | 5 |
| It seems that the big players are still keeping prices higher, Mobil
have dropped the price 2p per litre, but they were charging more
anyway.
Garry
|
1150.41 | Yawn..... | MACNAS::BMULQUEEN | | Thu Oct 25 1990 11:41 | 6 |
1150.42 | We called it the half-tank Rule | ZPOVC::MICHAELLEE | | Sat Nov 03 1990 21:42 | 12 |
|
Petrol costs about $1.50 a litre just about 2 weeks ago. The price has
dropped to $1.20 a litre. 60% of that goes to the Govt as tax. The way
to beat that is to drive about 60 km into Malaysia. They are selling it
at 70cts per litre.
The catch is, Govt made a ruling that all Singapore registered cars
going to Malaysia must have 1/2 a tank of petrol. The excuse is to
control the car usage but the obvious reason is to prevent too much
revenue from getting out of the country.
|
1150.43 | Going Down... | VOGON::MORGAN | Physically Phffftt | Fri Dec 14 1990 11:39 | 9 |
1150.44 | from vogon news... | VOGON::ATWAL | Dreams, they complicate my life | Thu Dec 20 1990 14:15 | 21 |
| digital NEWS HEADLINES LIVE WIRE
E.C. CARBON TAX PROPOSED
PROPOSALS to impose a new duty on fuel after the Gulf crisis - equivalent to
around 20p on a gallon of petrol - are advocated in Brussels as part of an E.C.
strategy to combat global warming and encourage energy conservation. The E.C.
minister for the environment, Carlo Ripa di Meana, said that the revenue
produced would fund research on energy efficiency, the development of renewable
energy sources and 'clean' energy technology, and environment-friendly modes of
transport.
Independent. London. 20 December 1990
More news follows...
|
1150.45 | | NSDC::SIMPSON | Two faced commit | Thu Dec 20 1990 15:16 | 7 |
| RE: -.1 Switzerland is going to do exactly the same - I think that the figure
quoted was higher than this (18 centimes/litre?? = 32p/gallon).
I'm in favour - provided that the money is spent properly on what it was
intended for, and not syphoned off somewhere else - which is what can happen.
Steve
|
1150.46 | | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | | Thu Dec 20 1990 15:26 | 11 |
| How on earth can you be in favour of paying more for a gallon of
petrol ??????????????????????????????????????????????????
I hate to sound selfish, but not having a sensible alternative,
I HAVE to use a car to work and any increase on petrl seriously
affects my monthly outgoings on transport.
Isn't there enough tax on petrol as it is ? In the states they still
pay less than a dollar for a gallon.
- Roy (who is very pleased he's only paying 1.76 a gallon at present)
|
1150.47 | me too....... | COMICS::COOMBER | We come in peace, shoot to kill | Thu Dec 20 1990 16:43 | 15 |
| I have to agree with the previous reply. I use large amounts of petrol
per month , something like 2.5k miles per month. If 20p of the masif
amount of the 1 pound odd the sting you for per gallon were converted
to help fight against global warming that would be better. It really
gets up my nose when the poor motorist is stung yet again. Figures have
proved that cars fumes only account for 5% of the harmfull gases , why
don't they get to the root of the cause and sort out industry who
really get away scott free .
Garry
|
1150.48 | Who squeals least? Ah, the motorists! | OVAL::SAXBYM | Teenage Mutant Ninja Teutons | Thu Dec 20 1990 16:48 | 15 |
|
I totally agree with the last two notes.
The motorists subsidises too many other projects already, without
having to bear further pressure on sorting out a problem which is
only in a small way their problem.
Just look at all the current 'Don't drink and drive' advertising.
If we did NEITHER the NHS and Social Services would cease to exist!
Another 20p on EACH and EVERY gallon of petrol would do wonders for
inflation too!
Mark
|
1150.49 | Do MEPs get free petrol? | BRUMMY::BELL | Martin Bell, EIS Birmingham, UK | Thu Dec 20 1990 17:48 | 19 |
|
20p++ per gallon would bring in ZILLIONS of pounds of revenue, far more
than that required for investigating global warming (despite the fact
that the Earth is actually getting colder).
Now if that money was invested into improving the road network so that
we spend less time stuck in jams - pumping pollution into the air for
hours and hours, wasting valuable time that could be used elsewhere -
then maybe i would approve!
If the 20ppg was to replace road tax, then again i would approve, but
just to let airy-fairy pseudo-scientists play with their computer models
of doom - time to buy a milk float!
mb
p.s.
Why not put the tax on DIESEL and sting the lorries as well?
|
1150.50 | I'm awaiting the flak !! :-) | UFHIS::GVIPOND | Caution of Puddles | Thu Dec 20 1990 18:12 | 33 |
1150.51 | You asked for it. | OVAL::SAXBYM | Teenage Mutant Ninja Teutons | Thu Dec 20 1990 18:30 | 18 |
|
The arguments around global warming are very debatable (and easy to
tear holes in), so I won't dispute that area, but I'd suggest that if
you drive a car in London that you deserve an extra 2 pounds per gallon
put on your petrol! For those people (and businesses) for whom public
transport is a joke (it would at least DOUBLE my journey times and I
have a relatively simple journey), an extra 20p in Government funding
would be littler short of criminal!
If, as was mentioned, some of the current road fund and petrol duty was
ploughed into public transport then it would be a considerably more
attractive solution, but what are those people for whom no public
transport exists supposed to do? Just put up with the price hikes as
usual, I suppose.
Mark
PS From your title I presume you were simply 'playing the straightman'.
|
1150.52 | As long as I can do what I like, so can you | CRATE::RUTTER | Rut The Nut | Thu Dec 20 1990 18:44 | 55 |
| I agree with the sentiments shown in a few of the previous replies.
City areas (thinking particularly of London) are VERY overcrowded.
When I worked in London, I used BR/LRT to get to work, because it was
easier. The cost difference was not considered. This also had the
advantage (for me) of allowing me to get drunk, then make my way home.
This was often inconvenient as regard timetables etc, but far, far
better than considering driving or taxi'ing home...
If more of the people who lived in and around the city used the
Public Transport network, it would alleviate _some_ of the problems
of traffic congestion. Of course, there is much more to this argument,
beginning with the woefully inadequate state of Public Transport.
I think that of the money taken as tax on petrol/diesel/road tax/whatever,
it would be more than reasonable to spend some of this on the Public
Transport system. I think it is accepted that this is the only *real*
solution to _some_ of the traffic problems we have.
As far as the 'green' issue is concerned, I would not mind _too much_
if I was charged an extra 20p per gallon IF this extra were used for
*worthwhile* efforts against the 'environmental issue of the week'.
It does P me off somewhat that most of the tax charged from the use of
vehicles does not go toward improving the 'drivers lot', or even toward
correcting some of the 'evils' that drivers contribue towards.
As has been commented on, car drivers are only a percentage of the
problem of 'global warming' (if that is truly occurring). The amount
of effort directed against cars/fuel consumption is TOTALLY out of
order when compared with the potential gains to be had from changes.
If the Elec. Industry had not been privatised, then maybe the Govt.
could have put some money into cutting down some of the effect that
burning fossil fuels for power would have (reminder :- electric
vehicles are not the 'solution' that some peoply believe, the power
to recharge these vehicles is not 'green').
Well, that's enough of my 'soap box spiel' on that subject, apart
from a concise description of my 'point of view'...
As this is a 'free country', I would like to be able to indulge
myself in activities that I enjoy. If these activities are proved
to harm others, I feel that it is acceptable if I am penalised in
some way - by increasing the cost of my anti-social activity.
I also feel that to be 'just', any other person who commits the
same sort of 'crime' against humanity is also penalised likewise.
If it happens that this 'other person' is a company which would
have to 'pass on' the cost, then I would also not mind if I were
then charged extra as a result of buying the product of this company.
J.R. (also, consider smoking [cigarettes] as that is harmful to others,
is taxed heavily, is not 'liked' by many others, but is still
permitted almost world-wide as an 'anti-social behaviour')
|
1150.53 | It really depends where you are travelling | UKCSSE::RDAVIES | I can't trype for nits! | Thu Dec 20 1990 18:59 | 16 |
1150.54 | US gas prices | OASS::BURDEN_D | He's no fun, he fell right over | Thu Dec 20 1990 21:24 | 8 |
1150.55 | green diesel!! | KERNEL::PETTET | Norm Pettet CSC Basingstoke | Fri Dec 21 1990 04:40 | 17 |
| ref 1150.49
Martin,
>>> Why not put the tax on DIESEL and sting the lorries as well?
1) Diesel cars are getting more popular in the UK.
2) Putting extra tax on diesel would cause consumer goods to cost
more and aid inflation further.
ref various,
As regards polution DIESEL fuel was "green" before green issues
were even thought of!!!
Cheers....Norm Pettet
|
1150.56 | | ANNECY::MATTHEWS | M+M Enterprises. Thats the CATCH | Fri Dec 21 1990 11:12 | 9 |
| re: .55
Try not to confuse green issues and polution. DIESEL, or more
correctly, badly tuned diesel engines, do polute the environment.
Admitedly, they don't produce the amount of CO that a petrol engine
does, so don't affect the ozone layer as much. They just produce
carcinogenic(sp) substances instead ...
Mark
|
1150.57 | They will put a green tax on beer next! | BRUMMY::BELL | Martin Bell, EIS Birmingham, UK | Fri Dec 21 1990 12:23 | 35 |
1150.58 | | UFHIS::GVIPOND | Caution of Puddles | Fri Dec 21 1990 12:43 | 34 |
1150.59 | Pay for lunch..... | COMICS::COOMBER | We come in peace, shoot to kill | Fri Dec 21 1990 13:08 | 23 |
1150.60 | | OVAL::SAXBYM | Teenage Mutant Ninja Teutons | Fri Dec 21 1990 13:11 | 30 |
|
>> Have you ever tried to park in Schwabing ?
Well, funnily enough, I have, and had no problem at all! However, I'm
prepared to believe that it can be bad at times.
Suggesting that everybody moves into towns to be near their work is
a rather backward thinking idea though. You'd be hard pressed to find
many people who would support such a plan (workers, managers or
sociologists). It also rather naive to suggest that by increasing
tax on petrol that public transport would quickly become vastly
improved (certainly in the UK, where the current government would decry
supporting public transport as 'Governmental interference). All a large
increase in tax on petrol would achieve would be to push up costs and
wage demands.
The REAL answer is to make it less neccesary for people to have to
travel at all. More home working would reduce the number of cars on
the road at any one time (and lets be honest, cars locked in the garage
do no harm to the environment) and also reduce the effective working
hours of millions of people. The trouble is that most employers assume
that their staff can't be trusted to work without big brother watching
them and there are perceived problems with people working alone in
social terms. This kind of thing could be implemented by employers
(hence circumventing governments and bypassing the inflationary tax
increases).
Simple isn't it! :^)
Mark
|
1150.62 | | UFHIS::GVIPOND | Caution of Puddles | Fri Dec 21 1990 13:43 | 29 |
1150.63 | Bl**dy VAXStation! | OVAL::SAXBYM | Teenage Mutant Ninja Teutons | Fri Dec 21 1990 14:00 | 26 |
|
>> It cant be or Maggie would have fixed it :-)
She didn't fix anything else, so why this? :^)
Anyway, you may not have actually said that increasing tax would
improve the public transport system, but it would need to do so to
be a beneficial tax, or it would simply have the negative effects
I mentioned and no positive effect (except allowing MPs another 25%
pay increase, voted by themselves of course!).
I agree entirely about Munich's public transport system and also that
the British government needs to take a serious look at providing
subsidised services, but it won't happen under the remnants of the
Thatcher regime (regardless of your political leanings it must be
admitted that the Tories under Mrs T built their reputation on reducing
Governemnt support in the public sector to the bone). Maybe after the next
election, but I'm not hopeful.
Interestingly, though, despite its excellent public transport system,
Munich still suffers from severe traffic congestion.
Home working would be boring if you never met other people, but if
all office workers only worked in the office 2 days a week you would
reduce the number of cars on the road dramatically.
Mark
|
1150.64 | Chicken/egg syndrome | VOGON::MITCHELLE | Beware of the green meanie | Fri Dec 21 1990 14:04 | 10 |
|
As has been said before - public transport will only be used if it is
seen to be the 'best' option for the traveller - in terms of
frequency/cost/advantages/disadvantages. When we lived in Munich we
used our car to get to work - since we worked about half hours drive
outside of the city, but trips within the city we always used
trams/u-bahn/s-bahn - because it was more convienient. No problems
parking, drink as much as you like :-), so many routes/options you
could get near where you wanted to go, inexpensive....
BUT it is (I believe) subsidised, and also very well used.
|
1150.65 | HO HO HO | UFHIS::GVIPOND | Caution of Puddles | Fri Dec 21 1990 14:14 | 20 |
1150.66 | Disaster = research funding = jobs | DOOZER::JENKINS | Quote......unquotE | Fri Dec 21 1990 15:33 | 17 |
|
The EEC idea of putting up the price of petrol was to fund further
research into Global Warming.
I might be persuaded to agree that the 20p a gallon could be well
spent on improving public transport, but this was not the EEC wish.
I certainly don't want the 20p a gallon investigating a problem that
the only hard evidence available suggests that problem is a figment
of the over-active minds of some scientists.
It's worth remembering that Steve Schneider, who has been one of
the noisiest and active proponents of the Global Warming theory,
was, 14 years ago making similar dramatic statements about the
return of the ice age.
|
1150.67 | | COMICS::SHELLEYR | Can hearses under-take ? | Sun Dec 30 1990 17:25 | 7 |
| Current prices at the Mobil garage, Viables...
Unleaded - 39.9
4 star - 42.9
Diesel - 43.5
It's interesting that diesel is now more expensive than 4 star.
|
1150.68 | Diesel should come down soon... | HEWIE::RUSSELL | Meeeeerrrrry Christmas, Ho, Ho, Ho. | Wed Jan 02 1991 17:22 | 15 |
| re .67;
diesel should come down soon, when the bad weather season is over.
A large proportion of diesel is used as heating oil, and apparantly if the
U.S. has bad weather, the price goes up.
Also, there is a chance the chancellor will start to bring taxes in line
(harmonisation?) with Europe, where diesel is much cheaper, so watch
out at the next budget.
But it is annoying, just at the moment!!
Peter
|
1150.69 | Current 4-star prices? | SIEVAX::LAW | Mathew Law, SIE (Reading, UK) | Wed Apr 03 1991 14:24 | 14 |
| Does someone out there know how much 4-star petrol cost yesterday
(2-April) at BP garages? I'm trying to keep track of my fuel
consumption, but forgot to write down the number of litres I bought
yesterday. Since I know how much it cost, all I need is the price per
litre.
Of course, if anyone knows the price today, I assume it won't have
changed much! (Perhaps that's not a good assumption to make though...)
Thanks.
Mat.
*:o)
|
1150.70 | Not that it helps ... | GRANPA::63654::NAYLOR | Purring again. | Mon Apr 08 1991 23:44 | 2 |
|
$1.20 a (US) gallon :^) :^)
|
1150.71 | Usually they say in the news. | KERNEL::SHELLEYR | RS with the RS | Fri Apr 26 1991 16:53 | 6 |
| Petrol appears to have gone up in all garages by about 7p a gallon
(1.5p a litre) over the last few days.
Haven't heard anything about this. Anyone know why ?
Roy
|
1150.72 | Currency conversion | VOGON::COLE | Mike, TPAG Product management, 830-6571 | Tue Apr 30 1991 12:27 | 8 |
1150.73 | even more tax on fuel - a bit harsh on diesel unless it's incorrect... | VOGON::ATWAL | dream out loud | Thu May 14 1992 14:06 | 23 |
| from VTX...
digital 14-May-92 LIVE WIRE
NEWS HEADLINES
BRUSSELS APPROVES ENERGY TAX TO FIGHT GLOBAL WARMING
The European Commission yesterday approved its draft directive to tax
energy in order to combat global warming. EC figures indicate that the
tax would have most impact on industry and power station operators.
Petrol and diesel prices would rise by the year 2000 by 6 and 11
percent respectively.
Financial Times, London. 14 May 1992
Digital Internal Communication 1
|
1150.74 | If you can't fix it, tax it..... | SBPEXE::PREECE | That's MISTER Megalomaniac to you.... | Thu May 14 1992 14:25 | 9 |
| Oh, well, there go the chances of getting inflation down....
...does anybody know where the revenue from this new tax will go ?
Ian
|
1150.75 | | BERN02::BYRNE | | Thu May 14 1992 16:09 | 1 |
| Building nuclear power stations ???
|
1150.76 | | UPROAR::EVANSG | Gwyn Evans @ IME - Open DECtrade | Thu May 14 1992 16:23 | 4 |
| Well, the EC recommended that it be used to lower the other taxes
paid by the consumer on fuel, such that there was no net effect.
Fat chance (IMHO, of course)
|
1150.77 | | IEDUX::jon | Five more years? I need five more beers! | Thu May 14 1992 21:17 | 22 |
| Re .73,
> even more tax on fuel - a bit harsh on diesel unless it's incorrect...
This proposed tax is, at least in part, a carbon tax. Maybe diesel has
more carbon in than petrol? The fuel which will go up by the highest
%age is coal - although not many cars run on that :-)
Re .76,
> Well, the EC recommended that it be used to lower the other taxes
> paid by the consumer on fuel, such that there was no net effect.
As I understand it, governments are supposed to keep the overall tax
burden the same so they could offset it by a reduction in VAT, income
tax or whatever. Decreasing other fuel taxes would defeat the object really.
> Fat chance (IMHO, of course)
IMHO too...
Jon
|
1150.78 | | TLE::WINALSKI | Careful with that VAX, Eugene | Thu May 14 1992 22:03 | 5 |
| If they want to cut down on global warming, they ought to shorten the EC
parliamentary sessions. That will reduce the amount of hot air released into
the environment substantially.
--PSW
|
1150.79 | Pure hot air. | BIS1::BHD161::HARRISON | International Band Of Smugglers | Fri May 15 1992 11:49 | 7 |
|
re: .78
Let's cut out the US Democratic and Republican Party conventions too!
Mike H.
|
1150.80 | Sometime never? | TIMMII::RDAVIES | An expert Amateur | Fri May 15 1992 19:43 | 5 |
| What you didn't report is that they'd only implement it if other major
countries like US and Japan also implemented it!.
When do you reckon that'll be???
Richard
|
1150.81 | gimme more!! | DCC::HAGARTY | Essen, Trinken und Shaggen... | Mon May 18 1992 20:55 | 4 |
| Ahhh Gi'day...
Wouldn't be anything to do with the current EC budget crunch to pay for
the absolutely SKYROCKETING cost of the bloody Common Agriculture crap?
|
1150.84 | and this is when it is cheap on the spot market! | COMICS::CORNEJ | What's an Architect? | Mon Aug 12 1996 13:25 | 13 |
| The cost of fuel is getting silly around the Newbury area.
I can buy Diesel for 62.9 (yes!) in Marlborough (ESSO - some
pricewatch!), 51.9 in Andover (Tesco) and 54.9 in Newbury (Tesco).
Even the A34 (Sutton Scotney, Shell) and M27 service stations (ESSO)
are 52.9!
Thats a range of 50p per gallon! Same suppliers (ESSO) , same retailers
(Tesco), same day...
Jc (who doesn't buy it in Tescos any more)
|
1150.85 | | COMICS::SHELLEY | Don't get mad, get even. | Tue Aug 20 1996 17:44 | 14 |
| Its rather worrying to see how prices (at least in my area) have
risen from 50.9p/litre to 55.9p in the space of just a few weeks.
Thats a 10% increase !
The way I see it is that tesco/sainsbury no longer have any reason to
sell at rock bottom prices because they know that its trendy for most
garages to have a 'price watch' and match whatever price they have so
they can't win the competition.
This is bad news as it takes away price war competition.
Royston
|
1150.86 | | COMICS::CORNEJ | What's an Architect? | Tue Aug 20 1996 18:01 | 9 |
| re my .84,
The cheapest (Tescos, Andover), went up from 51.9 to 53.9 over the
weekend...
Has anyone gor a URL for the spot markn in Rotterdam?
Jc
|
1150.87 | | COMICS::CORNEJ | What's an Architect? | Tue Aug 20 1996 18:34 | 13 |
| Found the spot prices in the US - look at
http://146.63.192.199/iea/oil/796.htm (July)
896.htm (August)
No significant changes....and the price of the crude is only a small
percentage of the pump price!
Cartel? Of course not.
Jc
|
1150.88 | Call me cynical..... | PGREEN::RICHARDS | | Wed Aug 21 1996 20:09 | 11 |
| Tesco in Basingstoke has risen from 52.9p/litre three weeks ago to
57.9p/litre - that's 25 pence per gallon - disgusting.
Of course the government's rubbing their hands together because any
sort of increase means increased tax revenue...............hang on a
minute - increased tax revenue, forthcoming election, Conservatives
desperate to buy some votes therefore need to cut taxes - no, they couldn't
be linked..........
Paul
|
1150.89 | | FORTY2::PALKA | | Wed Aug 21 1996 21:37 | 5 |
| re .88
I think most of the tax on petrol is a fixed rate. So the increase goes
to the petrol station and the fuel companies, not the government.
Andrew
|
1150.90 | | MUGGER::GRAHAM | Graham Smith, Solution Support Group | Thu Aug 22 1996 12:28 | 3 |
| That's true, but don't forget VAT.
|
1150.91 | UNLEADED: 14p per litre (plus tax) | TGRAPH::WEGG | Some hard boiled eggs and some nuts. | Thu Aug 22 1996 12:56 | 5 |
| I once saw a petrol station in Australia that advertised its
prices without the tax. I'm not sure if it helped sell the fuel,
but it was certainly an eye opener.
Ian.
|
1150.92 | Yeh but....... | PGREEN::RICHARDS | | Thu Aug 22 1996 16:24 | 11 |
| Reference .89..........I think that you're right, but what does
increased company profits mean? - more corporation tax paid by those
companies.
Another thing that I've noticed is that around budget time, petrol
companies tend to raise the price prior to the inevitable (`environmental')
petrol tax increase. Anybody got any theories about why they tend to do
this (apart from greed).
Paul
|
1150.93 | | WOTVAX::DODD | | Thu Aug 22 1996 17:08 | 13 |
| I'm sure prices go up before the budget simply so that the oil
companies can make the magnanomous gesture of absorbing the tax
increase.
Isn't duty on petrol "ad valoren" or somesuch which means that while
the duty is a fixed amount it also has to be at least a certain
percntage. The effect of this is that duty does go up as price
increase, as does VAT.
Fuel is being increasingly taxed to bring alleged environmental
benefits.
Andrew
|
1150.94 | Scottish price war | CHEFS::SURPLICEK | | Fri Sep 06 1996 19:23 | 6 |
| 43.5 in Scotland the other week, at a private garage. Theory is that
the owner changes the price every now and again to give admin headaches
to the local Esso garage. The Esso garage does indeed watch and
respond.
Ken
|