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Conference terri::cars_uk

Title:Cars in the UK
Notice:Please read new conference charter 1.70
Moderator:COMICS::SHELLEYELD
Created:Sun Mar 06 1994
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2584
Total number of notes:63384

870.0. ""Jag Servo No work No fun"" by KERNEL::BARTHUR () Fri Nov 24 1989 19:50

    I have a problem with the brakes on my series 1 xj6.
    It is fitted with a series 2 servo and master cylinder. 
    	
    	The problem is simply this. There appears to be a lack of servo
    ie, the brake pedal goes hard after the second time the pedal is
    pressed. This happens whether the vehicle is being driven or simply	
    on tickover. Removing the vaccuum pipe from the inlet manifold reveals
    plenty suction at tickover. A replacement servo has been fitted
    with the same result. This problem only began after i had a fluid
    leak from one of the brake pipes on the master cylinder.
    The pipe was replaced and the brakes bled. In fact the front circuit
    has been bled twice.
    	The problem has got gradually worse over some distance.
    Setting out from Basingstoke to Edinburgh, the servo appeared to
    work well until the I had reason to pump the pedal near the Lake
    District. After which i had no servo whatsoever. I swopped the servo
    in Scotland and had the same trouble. Its not funny driving 400
    miles home with no servo!!!!!!
    	Any ideas anyone. Could it be air in the system???
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870.5Servo or master cylinder?JANUS::EDWARDSBrian Edwards, Reading, UKWed Jan 10 1990 18:4141
    Unfortunately, I don't know the XJ6 SII braking system too well, but
    here goes.
    
    Assuming that the vacuum connection and non-return valve are OK, and
    the servo unit is fine since it was replaced, there are a couple of
    points you can check.
    
    1. Is the pedal to servo operating rod clearance correct? If not then
       the servo may not be resetting properly between pedal applications.
    
    2. Is AIR getting in to the opposite side of the servo diaphragm. This
       is mostly applicable to older servos (such as my 3.8S) which has an
       air filter on the air intake side of the servo. If this is blocked
       then the servo will not operate very reliably.
    
    If vacuum, air and mechanical adjustement is fine, then is the problem
    in the master cylinder? It may be that the master cylinder is not
    operating correctly.  Given the original problem you had, it may well
    be that the master cylinder is the cause of the problem. 
    
    A quick crude check can be made by disconnecting the servo vacuum hose
    and trying the brakes with the pipe disconnected.
    
    **** CAUTION **** I don't advise doing this any anything more than 2
    mph, as, even if you are a 20 stone gorilla, it will be hard to stop
    1.5 tons of XJ6 with a faulty master cylinder and no servo!. But at
    least you should be able to isolate, or eliminate, the servo as the
    problem, if the brakes are worse or non-existant with the servo
    disconnected.
    
    Assuming that the SI XJ6 had the same set-up as the 420, (it certainly
    used the same 3-pot calipers) it would have had single circuit
    hydraulics. Many dual circuit master cylinders require the pistons
    resetting manually, in the case of a single circuit hydaulic failure,
    before the system will bleed properly and operate correctly. This is
    normally obvious if there is a hydraulic circuit warning light, but may
    be less obvious if you have not wired one in.
    
    I hope this helps. 
    
    Brian 
870.6cat-astrophic servoKERNEL::BARTHURFri Mar 16 1990 19:5910
    
    	The saga continues. Now that the weather has improved and the
    cat is stirring in the garage, I decided to get the auxilliary starting
    carburretor fixed. I stripped it cleaned it and renewed the rubber
    hoses to the inlet manifold. It works now. But guess what, so does
    the brake servo and I can't get it to go wrong now. The rubber hoses
    to the inlet manifold were in bad condition. Does anyone think that
    I was losing enough vaccuum to affect the servo but not performance?
    
    				Cheers Bill
870.7Sometimes the most simple cure fixes the problemRUTILE::SMITH_A2 down and 1 to goMon Mar 19 1990 13:1112
        
    I've heard of similar problems to this - it was because the rubber
    hose was two ply (inner hose, cord reinforcing, outer sleeve) and
    the inner hose had partly come away from the re-inforcing, so that
    the vacuum inside the hose closed the pipe. From the outside the
    hose looked old, but ok, but the servo was nigh-on useless.
    
    Also occurs on water pipes but the opposite effect. Water gets through
    inner hose to the re-inforcing and then goes between the plys. This
    is visible though as a blister on the pipe.
    
    Tony
870.8brakes first, power second.BONNET::HARDYMon Mar 19 1990 20:0810
    re -2,
    
    i've had lots of trouble with perishing vacuum hoses on my old renault.
    The first sign of a hose going is a sound of air escaping while
    touching the brakes and the second is a slight loss of servo asistance.
    The third is rough(er) running. 
    I'm sure that you can loose brake assistance befoe you notice loss of
    power (and you've probably got four times the power that I have ;-{)
    
    Peter