Conference terri::cars_uk

    From the distant past ......
    
    Don't worry about where you are on the grid. Keep it on the track, and
    avoid aggressive traffic. Concentrate on getting the lineright and
    gradually getting faster throughthe corners. Overtaking will come
    naturally as you get faster, and you could be surprised at how well you
    do (well I was!).
    
    And if you really want to win, choose your race/class carefully, and
    drive determindly. Don't choose too long a race to start, you'll be
    surprised at how tiredyou get.
    
    Keep you concentration and your cool!
    
    (All sounds like common sense. Sorry!)

    Sounds silly I know but it's based on a friends experience in the
    old Formula Ford.
    
    He spent a fortune buying and preparing the car, had a couple of
    test sessions, then on the day got so hyped up about being in a
    'proper' race he piled the car into the first bend.
    
    Relax, enjoy the race.
    
    
    T

    I'll second the last two notes - it is VERY easy to get carried away by
    the excitement (the adrenalin at the start of your first race will keep
    you going for WEEKS!) and do something silly. You'll feel a lot better
    about things if you keep it on the island and finish (even last) than
    if you pile it into something/somebody.
    
    Practice deep breathing/relaxing on the grid. Don't try too hard too
    soon, especially in the opening lap. Try and keep a good distance
    between you and the cars around you ; you'll probably have a few spin
    off right in front of you doing what you're trying hard not to do.
    
    As John says, start slowly and build up the speed and confidence. One
    of the main differences I found between practicing and racing was that
    you also need to know how to get around corners OFF line, either
    because you are trying to keep someone from coming up the inside of you
    or because you are trying to get past someone else who also wants the
    optimum line.
    
    Most of all, take time out to enjoy it! You probably won't until you're
    back in the paddock telling your girlfriend how you went through that
    corner at the back of the circuit ABSOLUTELY flat out backwards while
    you passed six cars only to have it cut out on you and let them all
    through again. I know - I've been there....!
    
    Colin

    
>>    back in the paddock telling your girlfriend how you went through that
>>    corner at the back of the circuit ABSOLUTELY flat out backwards while
    
    
      Which girlfriend is this then, Derek? :-)
    
      Elaine

    Many moons ago I undertook the Jim Russell racing Course at
    Silverstone. I must admit the first race I did vas very nerve racking
    and the adrenalin impared my memory for a couple of laps. However, once
    I had started to think clearly the message that the instructors had
    been emphasising came back to me. ... "Drive smoothly!" If you get a
    chance walk the circuit beforehand with an experienced driver to
    discuss turning in points, gearing, line etc. Watch others drive the
    circuit. The other two points that the instructors at JRDS emphasised
    were do all your braking in a straight line and enter the corner with a
    balanced throttle. i.e. neither accelerating nor braking the car with
    the engine. Only put the power on when you "unwind" the steering.
    
    Good luck, enjoy and, I found, once I started driving smoothly, I
    lapped far quicker. I hope that the same works for you.
    
    Jim

	There's only 1 noting day left before Derek Mitchell departs
	for his practice session/first race.

	Since the race takes place in one of the remotest parts of
	the British Isles (was it planned?) it's unlikely that
	there'll be much DECcie support on site, so perhaps some good 
	luck wishes are in order.

	-John

	Is the great event going to be videod?

       Good luck Derek (or is it bad luck to say that?)

       I'm sure you've mentioned this, but where is this momentous event?
       (If it's Goodwood tommorrow afternoon, I may get down there with
       the video).

       Ian.

    
      We're going to Goodwood on Friday morning for the practice, (anyone
    have any advice on what time to leave Reading to get there for 9.00,
    we'll be towing with the Landy, so top speed of only about 55-60)
    
    The race on Sunday is at Pembrey, west of Swansea, which is quite a
    way! Mark Saxby is probably going to be there. And no, it won't be
    videod, - not by us anyway, we don't have a camera!
    
    Elaine 

Have fun!
Scott.

Re .93
>    The race on Sunday is at Pembrey, west of Swansea, which is quite a
>    way! Mark Saxby is probably going to be there. And no, it won't be
>    videod, - not by us anyway, we don't have a camera!
>    
>    Elaine 

I lend you ours if you promise not to break it. I'll even put a copy of 
want you take onto VHS for no extra charge.

Regards
Dave

    Good luck - and don't forget to enjoy it, too! 
    
    Colin

Our ex-neighbour used to race a capri (no, he didn't crash, he's ex- 'cos he
moved) and from what I remember of his escapades, the most important thing is
being able to walk to the bar after the race for nerve-calming medication.

As long as you don't win the race, you can usually get their before the crowd.

Moral: take it easy, have fun, better just to finish than have to dig the car
out of a grassy bank.  Let someone else win the first few, then when you've got
the hang of it you could try third and fourth gear as well...

Scott.

PS I hope you'll have Roadcraft with you, for reference ;-)

    
    RE .96, thanks Dave, but I think I'm going to have my hands full with
    the pit board, stop watch, clip-board and pen, spanners, spare oil
    pump, bottle of whisky................
    

    Re time from Reading to Goodwood.....
    
    You should do it in 1.5 hours assuming no bad traffic. What route
    will you take? Reading/Alton/Petersfield/Harting..?
    
    Ray.

    
    re -1, the route to Goodwood,  I've not been there before, so we're
    open to suggestions as to route, especially as we'll be travelling at
    morning rush-hour time, and won't be able to do much in the way of
    overtaking! 
    
    Elaine

Re: .101
>    RE .96, thanks Dave, but I think I'm going to have my hands full with
>    the pit board, stop watch, clip-board and pen, spanners, spare oil
>    pump, bottle of whisky...............

Only one bottle of whisky? ...Shame we can't come.

Dave (Who_thinks_Derek_does'nt_want_any_reminders_of_the_racing_event_
of_the_week)

    
    Just to let everyone know that we're back - and in one piece - and with
    the first completion signiture on the back of Derek's racing licence!
    
    After a completely exausting three days, including numerous last minute
    panics, - oil pump replacement, engine mounting removal and welding,
    electrical problems..... 
    
    Anyway, Derek is going to write a full 'report' - but at the moment
    he's actually got to do a bit of work. Thanks to everyone for advice,
    and Mick for the trailer, and Mark (Saxby) and Mandy for turning up at 
    Pembrey!
    
    Now, we've got to get eveything sorted out for next weekend, and
    Snetterton!   

    
    .......here we go again..... Snetterton on Sunday, with a bit of luck!
    
    Then a whole 4 weekends before we have to do it all again!
    
    Elaine

    Can we have the schedule for all of the races you have planned for this
    summer ??. I'd definitely like to get to see one.
    
    Rich
    

    [note - this reply is from the USA and all dealings with CN have been
    by mail and telephone.  A friend (Phil Creighton of Essex Racing) who
    is in the racecar/parts import business (to the US, he is the Tiga
    distributor and race shop) has visited them, for me, and brought back
    parts - he describes them as "enthusiasts, not businessmen".]
    
    I have dealt with CN to buy parts.  Mail/phone order it is a little
    like Xmas - when the package arrives you don't get everything you
    ordered and usually something you didn't order.  Most of their parts
    are good or adequate.  Some of their repro pieces - like crash pads -
    are bad.  Prices are pretty good on 'standard' items and they have a
    lot of the trim bits that are hard to locate elsewhere. [my favorite
    'hard' (engine and suspension) bit supplier is QED]
    
    The info I have seen on their Sprint is that it is a rebuilt Elan with
    refurbished_used or new parts.
    
    You may be better off totally rebuilding your car yourself or having
    someone (CN also does restorations/rebuilds) do it.
    
    Maybe you should move this to the Lotus note?
    
    	-Barry_with_a_1969_S4_Elan_still_sitting_waiting_for_a_nose_
    	 _until_the_house_gets_restored_and_I_have_some_money_(DEC_
    	 _stock_gets_back_to_180_maybe)-
    

    RE .109 and .111
    
    If if really is a Lotus Elan, then it is a kit (sorry Derek). Apart
    from 11 demonstrators that were built by the factory over the years,
    all other Elans on the road were built from kits. And since Lotus
    couldn't sell the demonstrators, they were eventually dismantled and
    put back into kit form.
    
    Dick

>    If if really is a Lotus Elan, then it is a kit (sorry Derek). Apart

>    Dick

	Sorry Dick but you've exaggerated a bit there. Elans were sold
	as kits originally as a purchase tax avoidance measure, though
	you could in theory buy a ready made example.

	However when tax rules changed the advantage disappeared and 
	then they were all ready assembled. This change occurred around
	1967/68. Since production ran from late 62 to late 73 and increased
	in the later years most were not kits.

	Incidentally the kit was a good degree artificial. Body, chassis
	Engine and a few odd bits that could be screwed together in a
	weekend - a far cry from today's kits.

	-John

       re notes .110 and .111
    I have moved my original note to 71.32 as suggested. Again thanks
    for the pointer to the proper location.
    
                                    Gary

    
    Advice needed as to where I put an ignition cut out switch (no rude
    replies thank you!!).. the type I have is the cheaper one (no
    alternator protection diode) and is basically just a big meaty switch..
    
    The switch is for a Sylva Striker kit car (chassis/engine acting
    as earth return).. and basically I want to know where within the
    electrical circuit the switch should be positioned.. 
                                        
    Guy
    
    
    

Electrically, it should be connected directly to the battery.  Which terminal is
up to you, I can think of people who would advocate each.

Assuming you connect it to +, you'd run a wire (big meaty sort of wire, like
the one connecting the battery to the starter) from the battery to one side of
the switch, then from the other side of the switch to the starter / soleniod and
other electrical connections.  Note you should have nothing else connected to
the + terminal, as this defeats the object of having a cut-out switch.

If you connect it to -, then run a wire from the battery to the switch, then
to the chassis / engine block.

Simple really.

Scott

    The safety cut out switch will not be effective unless there is also a
    pair of contacts that switch off the ignition circuit as well.  Without
    these, if the engine is still running when the switch is operated, 
    the alternator can still power the ignition circuit via the sense
    wire, even though the main battery cable is open circuit. Thus the
    engine continues to run, causing a major fire risk; and the alternator
    tries to work into an almost open circuit, which destroys the alternator.
    Very dangerous, very expensive.  Spend a couple of quid extra and buy
    an Autolec switch.   
    
    Your next task is to decide where to put the switch, and whether you
    want internal operation as well as external operation to be possible. 
    Ideally the switch body should be within the driver's (and/or
    co-driver's )reach, and a cable release taken to the area of the bottom 
    left hand corner of the windscreen, for use by whoever is dealing with
    the accident.  Read the RAC MSA blue book to make sure you are
    complying with all the regulations and recommendations for your car and
    sport.
    
    hope this helps
    
    Mick
    corner of the windscreen 

A bit of clarification, which may help......
    
    
                                +--------------+
             +------------------+              |
             |       +----------+Alternator    +------------------ Earth
             |       |          +--------------+
             |       |
             |       |     +--------+           +----------+
             |       +-----+Cut out +-----------+Battery   +------ Earth
             |       |    ++Switch  +-----+     |          |
             |       |    |+--------+     |     +----------+
             |       |    +-----------+   |
             |       |                |   |
             |       |  +-------+     |   |   +-----------+
   +---------+--+    +--+Ign. Sw+---+-+   +---+Ignition   |
   |Ign.warning |       +-------+   |         +-----------+
   +---------+--+                   |
             |                      |
             | Sense wire           |
             +----------------------+
    
    With this arrangement, operation of the cutout disconnects the main 
    battery cable, but leaves the alternator still connected to the 
    ignition switch, and the sense wire connected into the ignition.  So 
    when the ignition switch is on, and the engine is running, UNLESS you 
    have the extra switch contacts, the ignition continues to work...until 
    the alternator blows up, or another disaster stops it.
    
    The circuit above shows how it should be connected.
    
    Mick
    
                                           

Plastic petrol cans are not illegal, provided they are made of the right sort
of plastic, have the correct approval mark and are clearly labelled petrol.

Similarly, metal cans have to be clearly marked "petrol"; it is illegal, for
example, to put petrol in a metal oil can.

Ordinary polythene is not "petrol proof", so a polythene valve is not a good
idea in a fuel line.


A far simpler solution would be to seal the breather pipe and use a ventilated
filler cap, or am I missing something obvious?

Scott

    Cheers,
    
      Thanks for all the speedy replies on the electric cut out switch
    item. I'll try and get an Autolec switch this weekend and fit it
    when I get my car back from Cheesman Products (they're making a
    4-into-1 exhaust in stainless steel for me, loads-a-dosh !)
    
    Cheers again..
    
    Guy
    
    

    
    Just to show what can be done - the Davrian parked next to us in the
    paddock was found (at about 1.30pm) to need a new inner wheel bearing.
    It was in the collecting area at 2.45 ready to race!
    
    The Sutol which wrote itself off had already undergone major surgery
    to the bodywork during lunch, having had an arguement during proctice. 
    Not content with bodywork damage, the driver went on to have a go at
    the chassis during the race. It's very sad to see a car hauled onto
    it's trailer in such a sorry state, knowing that it could be yours....
    
    

	Well, whilst I was off on hols, I have the confirmation that I have
	5 laps around the Castle Coombe circuit in September - it's a chance
	for people with kit cars to take them around the track.

	vrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

	Heather 

    Re. a couple back.
    
    	Mitchells
    
    	Ah but have you recovered enough to say whether you finished
    	or not, and if so in what position. Or is this to remain a secret.
    
    	-John

    
    Note to anyone thinking of racing Kit cars - 
    
    Derek's description of events in note .130 highlights one of the problems of
    'getting into' Kit car racing. The circuits are well spread around the
    country, which is good in some respects, but does mean that the chances
    to 'learn' a circuit is minimal. 10-15 mins practice on race day,
    in which you could hope to complete, at most, 8 laps, even with no
    mechanical/electrical problems, is nothing. Very few tracks have (or are 
    allowed to have) practice days on the day before a race.Taking time off 
    work to drive to a practice day adds considerably to the cost in time and
    money, especially when you might end up going back to the same place
    two  or three days later! Added to the fact that circuits seem to 
    advertise some practice days, but others just seem to be organised (and
    cancelled) on an ad-hoc basis, it can take many seasons to become
    familiar enough with a track to even start to 'race' the other cars! 
    
    With a bit of luck, by the end of the season, we might have managed to 
    do 10 races, but on 5 or 6 different circuits, not much time for
    learning where the bends are! 
    

	Well, the bloke who built my kit, raced his in the sprints in 
	Southampton, he hasn't raced for 3 years, and he had road tyres on,
	as he had to drive it down.

	He came second in his class (of 12), beeten by a Cosworth RS Turbo,
	by 0.6 sec. He was a bit dissapointed, 'cause he recons in his race
	tyres he would have won.  (He's going to buy himself a trailer for 
	future use).

	And yup, only ONE practise lap.

	The guy in the Cosworth was very impressed, as he's been racing many
	years.

	Our other friends dutton was slower by 4+ seconds (but in another class)


	Look out Castle Coombe, 'cuse I'll be there in September!

	Heather   learner-racer

>	Try racing against guys who have been racing almost every weekend
>for the last 5 years ....

	The guy who beat him had been, he was also sponsored by a garage.
	
>	If thats Ocean village, I seem to remember its a very narrow
>nastly kerbed bit of back street.

	Yup, 5 left-hand bends, and three right, very windy indeed, and very
	high curbs...................quite an introduction for him.

	
	AND, decision made (for the time) we'll be at Sandown on Sunday.....

	.............. cucumber sandwichws and tea anyone?

	Heather

	Opps I forgot to say,

	TVS showed excerpts from the race last night, they showed about 6 cars,
	Alan and the red NG were one of them.

	Heather

	He raced go-karts, and took my white one for sprints/hill climbs
	in the first year he built it.	

	I don't know if he did any other racing, I do know he's got a racing
	licence.

	The red NG was built to race, and he's only completed it recently.
	(it is road-worthy, but uncomfortable over any distance)

	It has a racing clutch, it's got very hard suspension, and is 4" lower
	than ours - the exhaust pipe is on the side rather than underneath.
	It's a five speed (ours is 4), it has two racing seats and two harnesses
	(ours has one harness, and ordinary seats) It also has a permanent
	roll bar.
	The windscreens are little half-moon shapes and can fold down.
	He has Holleys, and we have something else.
	Ours is based on a MGC back axle, and his isn't.

	Err, after re-reading this, I think I've a long way to go before
	understanding anything about cars!

	Heather

The red one also _looks_ stunning, but compared with the noise, the looks are 
nothing, he started it up for me when I was taken out in Heather's one, and
it sounded _evil_  ... Give me a ring about Sandown will you H?

    Also with NGK plugs , what I tend to do is in hot conditions use a
    BP9EV (paladium gold) and use something like a BP8EV when things cool
    down or its peeing with rain. I've used Nippon Denso too , I do much
    the same with them but I'm not sure of the numbers.
    
    
    Garry

    
    Obviously all is not rosy in the Group K garden.
    
    The trouble with allowing Ultimas and the like to run in a kit car
    championship is that they are basically purpose built racing cars which
    CAN be run on the road (the same could also be said of the Noble 23!
    :^)).
    
    Having purpose built race cars competing against Cobras, Duttons,
    Marcos (not that I've ever seen any there!) and the like was going
    to lead to a lot of disenchanted drivers. The no Hewland rule
    effectively bans anyone turning up with a Mallock and wiping the floor
    with the opposition.
    
    An obvious solution would be to split the 'rich-dudes' from the others
    , and an easy (and successful in HSCC classic car racing) method would
    be to force drivers to drive their cars to the circuit. Anyone who 
    trailers their car to a mile or so away from the circuit would soon be
    caught out (again as has happened in HSCC racing).
    
    Has anyone ever suggested this in the 750 MC?
    
    Mark
    

    
    The club was originally formed by Austin 7 (?) owners, with cars of
    engine size 750cc
    
    There is still a 750 formula race - but these cars look nothing like
    Austin 7s! :-)

	The problem is that the rich types sponser the races; however, it
	seems to me that they should run in seperate races, the power/handling
	differential is too much.

    
    I certainly agree that the Ultimas should not really be in the same
    race as the 23, (and other group K's) they are so much faster than the
    opposition. The only problem is that no-one is going to run a race
    which has only two cars in it! 

What are entry and exit angles?

    If it's any consolation, chaps ... flying and racing kit airplanes
    and formula air-racing is EXACTLY the same ... only the rules are
    even more closely enforced.
    
    The only person to win more than once in the Air-race curcuit in one
    season was the son of the Chairman, the Handicappers Son and someone
    who shall remain nameless, but has oodles of dosh, and has put 
    sponsorship money into air-racing.
    
    Something smells a little off ... but we all enjoy being legalised
    (just) hooligans anyway!
    Paul

...but *why* are they called entry and exit angles?  Surely squat and dive
angles would be more approriate.  Or is it something to do with braking before
entering bends and accelerating out of them?

Scott

    
    Well done Derek, sounds like you're beginning to drive on the track
    like you do on the road.
    
    Maybe we could organize a mass outing to watch you at Brands?
    
    Mark

    
    I'm slowly working my way through the Fairthope chassis before it goes
    of to be grit blasted and zinc sprayed. I need to put mounting plates
    in for the roll cage. 
    
    Are there any guidelines available on how big the plates need to be ?  
    
    They are all triangular plates going between the outriggers and side rail.
    Do cages normally have three bolts on each corner of the mounting plate or
    one through the middle ?
    
    The car doesn't have anything like a fire proof front or rear bulkhead.
    Whilst the car is in bits should I be thinking of alloy plating ? 
    
    The car has front suspension a bit like a Triumph Herald but instead of
    using rubber bushes on the inner and out wishbone bushes it uses 
    bronze !! The threads that these bronze trunions screw into have
    stripped. Does anyone know a light engineering company who would run
    some weld into the wishbones and re tap the threads. I can't do it
    myself because the threaded hole is too large. The trunnions being 1.5"
    diameter.
    
      We're hoping to do the Circuit of Ireland Rally in a years time in
    two cars, my Fairthorpe with an 1100cc Triumph engine and also a
    Fairthorpe Rockette with a unique three headlamp bonnet which has a
    modified Triumph Vitesse engine with triple SUs.
    
      We've already had one chassis grit blasted, zinc sprayed and etch
    primed. The results are very good.
    
    
      Chris.

    
    Oh well, Derek, even Ayrton Senna spins of sometimes (a lot in his FF
    days!) and you must be pleased to be going so well after your first
    couple of races. You could be challenging for the class championship
    next year at this rate.
    
    Mark

Just make sure you put on a good show at Pembrey.

We'll be watching.

Dick

	We've got the NG in a suitable condition to take it around the track 
	at Castle Coombe Saturday.


	Vroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom

	Heather

    
    Re .170
    
    What's the idea of not having the brake lights working? Is it to
    prevent the opposition from knowing when you're braking?
    
    Mark

  	Derek, are there BMRMC ( I think, British motor racing marshalls club )
	members there doing the marshalling ? If there are, they should have 
	'observers' at a number of points around the course. The "disabled
	brake light trick" is just the kind of thing they are *supposed* to
	notice and report.

	While not advocating a policy of running to the Clerk of the Course
	every race and complaining of minor indiscretions, the practice of
	disabling brake lights is matter of safety and SHOULD be reported.

	Gordon

    
    Pembrey is a BARC circuit and there would have been observers on the
    posts. Trouble is, they may not have been experienced as Pembrey has a 
    lot of trouble finding sufficient officials for a meeting - I can see
    why too! Even Thruxton has trouble getting enough marshalls together
    for lesser meetings and that isn't in the middle of nowhere!(suprisingly 
    there's a surplus for Grand Prixs and officials are chosen by lottery!).
    
    Mark

    
>>    there's a surplus for Grand Prixs and officials are chosen by lottery!).
    
    I would have thought a better way would be on the basis of how many
    times each person has marshalled at lesser events. 
    
    Maybe non-working brake lights is one of the things they should be
    looking for, but it can be quite difficult to see sometimes, because of
    the positions of the posts - 

    
>one of which included the race sponsor.
    
    I think that's your answer!
    
    Mark

	We were told it would be 5 laps, but there weren't that many people ...

	Well, I drove around Castle Coombe, I was the 4th car out, and my first
	time on a race track.

	It was very slippery, so I concentrated on getting the right line, and 
	driving for a race-track rather than road. I did 9 laps, before being
	flagged in.

	Very enjoyable, I hope to go next year, when I feel more comfortable
	with my driving - and hopefully it will be dry.


	Dave went out at lunch-time. The track was dry by then, and there were 
	very few people out. He did 26 laps. I think if he could pass the 
	medical then he'd apply for his race licence.

	Do they do an ECG for race licence medical?


	It managed to stay dry all day, considering the black clouds that were 
	around, it was a mirical

	Heather.

	PS I bought a brown leather sheepskin hat - it kept my ears lovely and 
	warm on the way home.

	Thanks, he may be able to do a couple of years...........

    I think they now use the XR2 for Brands Hatch 'racing school', as that
    is what was parked on display there this weekend...

Brands Hatch racing school quite often have strange machinery on display outside
their offices. On the two ocassions that I've been down there for lessons 
recently, they were only using XR3i's and Ffirst's for the training sessions

Dick

   They also own and run the same school at Oulton Park. I had a go in the
   XR3i and F-first ... really good fun, despite the fact the track was wet
   and I had to keep the revs down and not use all the gears ...

   The most exciting bit was being taken round the track by an experienced
   race driver in the XR3i ... real brown trouser stuff.

  Mark

    When I did the "Super Trial" at Brands about three months ago they were
    using XR2i's - I hope they haven't written them all off by now!
    
    Rob

    
    A busy day.
    
    Where are our tickets?!?!
    
    Mark

    
    So, ahem, which bits are you racing in ?
    
    
    Nigel

Well, it had to happen sooner or later ..... I've been given permission by the
"house management committee" to apply for a competition licence.

Unlike Derek though, I'm not going for circuit racing, although I must admit it 
does have its attractions. Instead I'm going to try my hand at sprints and
hillclimbs in the Westfield. This is a 'lower cost option', well that's the 
argument I used anyway!

First outing should be South Cerney sometime in the spring, giving me 'plenty'
of time to 

build and install new engine
fit oil cooler and bigger rad
change ignition system
fit new roll bar
change tyres
replace front mudguards
modify electrics 
etc, etc......

And this is the low cost option?

Dick

	Read in the paper last week that the celebrities will include
	a couple of F1 drivers at least. Can't recall which but think they
	were British. It didn't occur to me that it was the same meeting
	else I'd have read it more avidly.

	Well I'm still planning an appearance, sounds like a good bit of
	entertainment to me and Brands is the best spectaor circuit after
	all.

	Do you want us to assemble at druids Derek?, you know so we could 
	push you back on after the spin.

	-John
	

	Dick,

	If you're at the sprints and hill climbs next year, I'll see you there,
	as we go and support Alan.

	And talking of Alan,  I appologise for not letting him know you would be
	at the pub the other Friday, my mum and dad came up early Thursday 
	morning, instead of late Thursday evening, and everything got delayed.

	Friday was a really busy day, and Alan was needed to help in the 
	kitchens!

	He pulled my leg for days after that - something about not being able
	to organise a piss-up in a brewery, or pub, or something!
		
	Dave was also a bit miffed, as our NG was actually in the garage at the
	pub, and he had a half day, and would have come along too instead of
	going fishing (any excuse to avoid my mum and dad!!!!!!)

	I shall now go and hide in a corner somewhere with my dunce hat on.

	Heather

Well Derek, if you hadn't got more than the 78% I got after all the race
experience you've had, then I would have recommended that you give up now and
take up tiddley winks!

Yes, at the initial trial, or whatever they call it now, the idea is to give the
man in the street (or on the road) the chance to say "I've driven round Brands".
Hence the pretty certificate that you get to hang on the wall of the loo. 
However, when you go onto the more advanced stuff, ie. you're "really 
interested", then it gets a lot better.

Anyway, now that you know where the lines are, we will expect to see you on pole
for Sunday.

Dick

ps. weather forecast is now much improved as the cold front turned north early,
and is pulling warm air up from the south. Should be >20C for the next couple
of days. Should keep the rain away.

    
    I can understand you getting & missing the yellow flags - I missed all
    but one of my four on the last timed laps!
    
    I didn't think the standard that they expected was very good as I
    thoght I was pretty useless on the first lapt, but still got an OK
    score (82ish I think) - my brother was p****d off as they added his up
    completely wrong!
    
    My brother is doing a longer course (to get a license) - if you want I
    can find out what he thinks of it.
    
    Rob

    
    Just watch out for the yellow flags on Sunday Derek!
    
    Mark
    
    PS Did you get my mail I sent you this morning?
    
    

>    I'm definitely going to get some more tution but BH really is a Punter
>    factory.

    Derek:-
    

    I have just completed the two day "pro" course at Cadwell with BHL. I would 
agree with you as far as Brands is concerned, even the instructors admitted
that the Brands school is set up for quantity rather than quality of tuition. 

    I can (very) highly recommend the course, I will post a report on the
course here when I get time. 
    
    Dick:-
    
    I found that the advanced courses at Brands really did suffer from
the number of pupils they have there, for advanced lapping you are
restricted to a brief period (8:00-9:00) on school mornings and even
then if there are a lot of people there you can end up running on into
the general school classes, this really is'nt to good when your out trying
for lap times and there are people pottering round 20-25 secs per lap
slower. The last time I was there was for a session of 30 laps I tryed
three different cars one for each of the ten lap sessions all were in
a bad state of repair, on the last but one of my laps I lost the entire
rear bodywork at the end of the backstraight just as well these dont
generate downforce on the firsts elsewise things could got decidely
nasty.
    
    I am going to BHL at Oulton Park next, this school has the highest 
rate of return for advanced students, my instructor was from there and he 
thought that it was the best of the four circuits BHL use. 

As far as the "punters" are concerned, from the instructors stories,
clueless really is the right word. Notable stories were of the regular (if 
infrequent) pupils who manage to get their open face helmet on back to front 
(apparently it can be done). And the real macho suicidal types who just go 
**** BERSERK **** when let loose on a circuit, the tales go on and on, all the 
instructors had countless anecdotes my favourites were all of the 
"Instructors  Revenge" gendre typically dealt out to 
zero-talent-zero-brain-nutter-bastard, who after seriously risking injuring 
both himself and the instructor pulls into the pit and says "and I bet you 
can't drive that fast", apparently few of these pupils manage to 
escape the following instructors demonstration without loss of control 
over some bodily function.


    

    
    Went to see Derek racing at Brands Hatch yesterday.
    
    I hadn't seen him race since his first race at Pembrey, and the
    difference was very noticable. His confidence level is much higher
    now (although the black and white flag didn't encourage him in
    his Senna-esque progress!) and he pulled off a very professional
    move to outbrake another car into Druids. Brilliant stuff!
    
    I'd almost forgotten what a lovely circuit Brands Hatch is (although
    it seemed odd not see and hear Group C cars - Will FISA EVER see sense
    and let real circuits hold major races?).
    
    We saw John Lincoln, but did anyone else make it to the circuit?
    
    Mark (Who_correctly_forecast_Jonathan_Palmer_as_the_pro_race_winner).
    
    

The Westfield had one of its bad days on Friday. Firstly on the way into work,
one of the alternator mounting bolts fell off. This resulted in a nice musical 
pinging as the alternator banged against the bracket. Fortunately there was no
damage and a quick dash to B&Q at lunchtime gave me a bolt that would hold 
things together until I got home.

If that wasn't enough though, I left the office a bit late and half way home it
was time to turn the lights on. Five seconds later there's pvc fumes pouring
from under the dash as part of the wiring loom goes into self destruct mode.
A lunge to the light switch restored order, and the remainder of the journey was
made on night sights.

Removing the dash, revealed that three of the plastic lamp holders on the 
instruments had been wired up round the wrong way. One of these had worked loose
from the oil pressure gauge, and the lamp base had touched the metal work. This
had resulted in the battery being shorted through 6 inches of 5 amp cable!

Ouch!!

So it was cut the damaged cable out of the loom and replace. Then I noticed that
the speedo was reading 42mph. Not easy when the car was in the garage with all 
the electrics disconnected. Somehow the amps had got into the hair spring of
the speedo and heated it up. Dismantle speedo and reset pointer on spindle, but
didn't quite get it right - it's 20 mph high this morning.

Ho hum - ain't kit cars fun. 

Dick

	Well, I thought Derek drove consistently and conservatively. He
	seemed from where I viewed the race to be losing ground into/
	around the bends and catching up again on the straights. Maybe
	it's time to give some thought to the handling?.

	There was a very good crowd at Brands and the weather was quite
	brilliant for the middle of October. Some entertaining racing
	too. Perhaps for nostalgic reasons I enjoyed the Mini Challenge
	most. These slick shod minis certainly shift, particularly around
	nasty bends like paddock and the field of nearly 30 provided lots
	of scraps, best of all being that for second place. And no bumping
	and boring either.

	Those who have been around Brands for lessons might like to compare
	times with some reference points. In the "celebrity drivers' race
	the fastest lap, by Paul Warwick, was 1.00.06 secs in an XR2i.
	Palmer won but Heather ?, who races trucks was only a couple of
	seconds behind over the full race in third and might have bettered
	that but for the difficulty of passing the second placed car. She
	was good.

	In the 'celebrities' race a 'TV AM weather girl', can't remember
	the name , also came third and exhibited some impressive car 
	control, tending to wander off the circuit but not lose it. In
	view of the fact that these people hadn't had much chance to 
	practice I was impressed. The best time in this race was 1.02.
	something I think, or was it 1.01.9.

	-John

    
    Heh Derek,
    
    This note is called 'DRIVING AND RACING kitcars' not just racing!
    
    Now I was driving along in the Marcos and suddenly...
    
    
    

        
    If you're not careful, I'll enter the whole story here!!!! :^)
    
    Mark

Derek,

The title of the topic is "DRIVING and racing kitcars".  Believe it or not, some
people do drive the things on roads as well as race tracks ;-)

Dick,

Sorry to hear about the smoke.  Must have been quite worrying!  Might be worth
checking the rest of the electrics...

Scott

Well.....now that the smoke's cleared (pun intended) on my last reply, let me 
just say that I will be fitting a 2.5kg mechanical fire extinguisher next year
before the first sprint, but after the engine/clutch/ignition/roll bar/tyre work
has been completed. After all, my salary can only support so much credit at one
time.

Here's to driving AND racing kit cars.

Dick

and now to recalibrate the speedo....again

Why you have to go to the Medical centre with your helmet and while you're still
wearing your racing togs.

Scott

Derek,

Too bad about the spin.

Is Silverstone that bad a place? I watched the F1 race there a couple 
of years ago and a couple of races at Brands. I agree the scenery at 
Brands is much nicer but how many places can you spin off at Brands
without doing more damage than you did? I thought Silverstone looked
like a real fun track. Of course they did show a Carting exhibition
before the F1 race and they were running 4 and 5 abreast through a
bunch of the turns without sliding. You obviously didn't have that 
problem.

I don't remember names of corners. Which one is Copse?

Better luck with the next one.

Glenn

    
    It's not surprising they charge so much as an entry fee when the
    competitors take so much of the track surroundings home with them! 
    
    (Keep it up Derek, and we'll soon have enough gravel for the garden
    path! :-) :-)  )

    Some fairly heavy stuff in that bulletin. Did you notice that they are
    now recomending that drivers wear a neck support . From the bit after
    it it seems that its a recomemdation of the chief medical officer and
    reading between the lines it may not stop there. I'm pleased to see
    they have also now published the new helmet regulations.
    
    I'm not sure about the way they intend to implement driver training,
    but would be in favour of it.
    
    Garry

>>    they have also now published the new helmet regulations.


what are these?
i'd have thought any 'kite-marked' helmet would have been ok

...curious

    There had been talk of some kite marks getting dropped and also
    FIA/FISA helmet requlation changes. There now is just 1 kite mark that
    is accepted BS6658 Type A ( with or without fire retardant). I think it
    basicly does away with Injection molded and thermoplastic helmets that
    conformed to a lower standard. The Bulletin list all the acceptable
    helmets ( far too long to mention ) , which includes what must be all
    the currently popular helmets. It also goes on to say that modification
    ,ie: adding communication equipment ( presumably includes water pipe
    holes and air pipes ) that have not been aggreed, allowing  the
    helmet to retain its BS number or decoration that does not conform to
    the manufactuer's recomendations will loose its homolagation. There was
    some mention either in the blue book or the last bulletin of BS6658

    
    No-one likes being called a cheat.
    
    The real problem lies with lax organizers. YOU shouldn't have to
    complain about cars which are breaking the rules, THEY should be
    pointing out any discrepancies in scrutineering, and any car which
    is modified between scrutineering and the race should be discovered
    in random post race scrutineering (presuming the 750 MC do this?)
    and disqualified.
    
    Mark

Well I am definitley behind you Derek.  Motor racing is supposed to be about
good sportsmanship and all that (x-ref F1 topic ;-), so people who flout the
rules to get an unfair advantage ought to be jumped on.  People who ignore
safety rules ought to get their racing licences taken away.  Someone has to
have a go at the organisers; very few would be brave enough to do it however.
One of my favourite (mis-)quotations is from G. Orwell's 1984:

"Just because you are in a minority, even if it is a minority of one, does
not mean you are wrong."

Don't worry about being two seconds slower; tarmac probably expands in the wet,
making the circuit longer ;-)

Scott

    
    Re .230
    
    But in '1984' it was ulitimately conformation which won!
    
    Let's hope your warning shots will be enough Derek. They've got 
    a few months to think it over before the next race anyway.
    
    Mark

    
    One of the major problems in this race series is that it _was_ a race
    for 'home-made' cars, and then some people started building cars which
    cannot really be described as road cars, and using them as kit cars, 
    then the 'real' kit cars started being transformed into racing cars.
    This has been allowed to continue in the faster classes, and because
    most of the people doing it have long since given up any pretence to
    have road cars, they have been bending the rules to suit what they want
    to do. This would be fine, provided that there was no pretence to
    adhere to the 'kit-car' rules, and that they voted in the changes, such
    that anyone entering knew what they were racing against. As it is, you
    have any new people doing there best to keep to the rules, and getting
    cross when they have spent time and effort (and money) when they see
    that no-one else is 'playing fair'

    
    I had my first drive of the 23 on Saturday. - we eventually got around
    to making my seat insert so I could touch the pedals! 
    
    We had booked a testing morning at Goodwood, and despite Derek
    suffering from 'flu, we were down there by 8.30am, in time to check
    everything over before taking to the track. Derek did a couple of laps
    to warm it up, but by that time he was feeling quite bad, so decided
    he'd had enough. I went out for about 10 laps, just to get the feel of
    it, and got a time of 2.40! (The car is capable of doing more than a
    min faster!) Anyway after a rest and a coffee, I took it out again,
    and started to bring the times down, and managed a 2.13, before visting
    the scenery! (Sorry Derek!) Luckily the damage is minor - a small crack
    in the gel coat, so I was able to do another couple of laps before our
    time was up! 
    The spin was caused by my missing a gear as I approached the chicane
    just before the pits (yes I had to do it in front of an audience!), by
    the time I'd found second gear, and lifted the clutch, I'd already
    started to turn the wheel, so......... 90 degree spin, and broadside
    into a tower of 4 tyres marking the entrance to the chicane. 
    
    Derek and Mick came running to see what damage I'd done to the car, and
    once they'd cleared the tyres, Derek let me continue! :-)
    
    I really enjoyed it, and know that I could get my times down even
    further, I was breaking far too soon for all the bends, and was no
    where near the limits of the car. When's the next testing session at
    Goodwood?................

>> Derek and Mick came running to see what damage I'd done to the car

Weren't they worried about any damgage you might have sustained?

Scott ;-)

    Hi,
    
    I thought that this was probably the best topic to ask about...
    
    How much should one pay for a really good set of HT leads and an
    ignition coil?  (for my VW Golf)
    
    I have heard about silicone HT leads.  The ones I have seen are
    suppressed, I think I read somwhere that these might be bad for the 
    Electronic ignition.  What does the panel think?
    
    Any what about a coil as well?
    
    Cheers,
    Rob.

    
    He must really be keen on getting you to agree to this racing school
    course Elaine! :^)
    
    Mark
    
    (Yes. I'm back)

That didn't last long, did it Mark ???

;-)

    Might not this be the time to try a different formula, or all they all
    just as bad?
    
    Weren't you thinking of single seaters at some time?
    
    I know that this may sound like the coward's way out, but there comes a
    time when, with the odds so heavily stacked against you, that the best
    option may be to retreat.
    
    Dick_who's_stuck_in_an_office_in_Paris_with_an_azerty_keyboard
    

    And I suppose that one characteristic of this keyboard is that it
    inserts _'s between words ....... Tee Hee...... ;^)

>     The club has recieved a letter from Brands Hatch saying that group K
>    is a disgrace since in their opinion most of Group K are ineligible
>    with regards to Group K rules and are potentially unsafe with regard to
>    rollover cages and one incident of an empty fire extinguisher.

Was this an official warning? First written warning before stopping
you all race on safety grounds? Who told the race track, RAC/BARC 
scrutineers? If so why did they allow the cars infringing rules race?
Why did Brands write and not RAC/BARC?

Dave

    
    The reaction of the committee to the Brands Hatch warning shows the
    lack of commitment to solving the eligibility problems. This was an
    excellent opertunity to tell all racers to get their cars 'sorted' or
    risk being banned from the Brands Hatch circuits, instead the committee
    mentioned it to the competitors almost as an incidental item, hardly
    worthy of comment. 
    It is unfortunate that a race series which was
    started for people who wished to race road-going cars has been 'taken
    over' by people who want to spend money on producing a 'racing car'.
    The reasons for them not going and racing in real race car series can
    only be guessed at - maybe they can win the kit car series by money
    poured into the car, but are not good enough drivers to win the 'real'
    races. This might sound rather like sour grapes, but if they want to
    run racing cars, why aren't they in the other formulae?
    

    You would think that if competitors (sponsors?) wanted to put
    more and more money into building of cars, they could at least
    spend a bit of it on the safety-related parts of the car.
    
    I agree with your general feelings, if a 'formula' is created
    to allow 'club competitors' to race home-built cars, then there
    should be some effort in keeping costs at a reasonable level.
    
    Are there any other classes which you could enter the Noble in,
    with some chance of doing well ?
    
    J.R.

1) What's a bowden cable?
2) What does the rule about isolation switch wiring say exactly?  What's wrong
   with the Autolec switches?

Scott

    You mentioned new switch location being 'drivers side rollcage'.
    
    How would you mount it to the rollcage - no drilling/welding to the
    cage - would you clamp it on ?
    
    J.R.

    
    
    Hi Derek,
    
               You probably know this but Knockhill is in Fife between
    Dumfermline and Kinross and not beside Dumfries as your earlier note
    says. I only put this in because it makes your journey north longer by 
    approx 150 miles. Are you planning to come up to Knockhill, if you are
    then I'm sure some of the Scottish noters will attempt to get up to see
    you and your Noble 23 in action. I will be there if you do venture up
    to Scotland.
    
                Alan.
       

See you there, with a bit of luck.

Any free tickets??

    
    We havn't even received the 'inviations' to race yet, never mind
    tickets or timetable!
    
    Derek phoned them up about it, and they havn't even sent them out yet!
    
    Bodes well for the rest of the season doesnt it.... :-(

        <<< Note 576.267 by VANTEN::MITCHELLD "............<42`-`o>" >>>


    Perhaps it should read "............<38`-`o>" then ?

    	Rik

Why have they changed your number?  Does this mean you're now 38th best in the
class instead of 42nd?  Or is that too obvious...

Have fun with the razor blades scraping the old number off....

Scott

 For the Kart, I have just bought an FM Galactica helmet. This was neccesitated 
by the fact that my old helmet was out of date according to the British Standard
that it met. I can't remember the whole of the BS, but it has the suffix 85, not
the old one of 77, which my old helmet had. 
 As to why I bought that helmet, simple : 1) It was on special offer at a Kart
show; 2) I had only just bought a new visor for my last helmet (also an FM), and
I didn't want to have to think of that as a waste. 3) I liked the colour.
 Probably the first decision you should make is whether to go for an open face,
or full face helmet, then choose an amount that you are willing to spend, as in
theory if it meets the BS, then it should be good enough !!!!, then just choose
one that you like the look of and is comfortable. 
 As far as advantages/disadvantages go :
	Full face : Will give better facial protection, but it restricts your
view to a degree. 
	Open face : No facial protection, improved field of vision.

 I had to go for full face due to the fact that open face is not legal for 
Karting.

 Hope this helps.

		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    This sounds like fun.  I wish they would have let me use my Caterham
    when I did a "racing try-out" at Brands - but they would have only
    yellow flagged me every lap for exceeding my lap times (spoil sports).
    
    A few tips not (normally) used on the road -
    
    Don't move your hands on the wheel - cross arms where necessary.
    Use the whole width - especially on the exit from corners.
    Find the turn in and clipping points and get used to them slowly.
    Do all your braking whilst straight before changing down (where possible).
    Enjoy it. :-)
    
    Rob

>>
    Do all your braking whilst straight before changing down (where possible).
    Enjoy it. :-)
>>
    
    And complete your changing down _before_ turning the wheels!     
    

    Is that the bitter voice of experience speaking?  :_[  :-)

    
    re -1 ,
     Yes, I didn't get it quite into 2nd - and was left in neutral, and
     by the time I had got it right, I'd started to turn the wheels, and as
     lifted the clutch I did a spin into a pile of tyres marking the
     chicane......
    
     (why do these things always happen in front of the spectators?...)

    Any news on preparation for the Brands meeting ?
    
    Also, any details on the programme for that day ?
    
    If you are racing in the afternoon, I think I can make it.
    (I'm at a party the night before, expected to be a good one)
    
    J.R.

    
    Derek is working hard on the 23, which will be ready for the 3rd March,
    but the towing vehicle may not! - It's been so cold that I've not been
    able to get on as fast as I'd hoped. Anyway, we've been offered the
    loan of an Espace for the day, so we'll be there! 
    
    We are also buying a trailer, which we should be able to collect next
    week, which will make loading and unloading _much_ easier.
    
    We havn't received the program yet, but the normal routine
    is scrutineering from 8ish, 1st practice about 9am, then racing starts
    about 1pm. We'll post the timetable when we get it.

    Thanks for all the tips. The track day is not until Easter. I'll let
    you know how I get on.
    
    John

	Well, I did one of these track days.

	We were told we could do 5 laps.

	10 laps later they hadn't called me in, so I went in anyway.

	Dave did 25 laps, 'till his neck was aching so much he needed a break.

	Alan did 5 and they called him in - they said although his exhaust was
	quiet enough for a race day, it wasn't quiet enough for a track day.

	It was good fun, one rule was that if anyone else was gaining and 
	needed to overtake you, you were to indicate and pull in to the right 
	(yup the centre). Some people who were overtaking me were obviously 
	used to racing, and had not read these rules. I had a very close shave 
	at one point, when I indicated and pulled to the right to let them 
	pass, as they went to overtake on the right. 

	I was 2 laps around before I realised that the approaching bends were 
	mapped on posts, so you knew what the bend was like!

	Do they all have this?

	Anyway, a great day out.

	Heather 

    Thanks for the advice, Heather, I'll watch out for overtakers !!
    
    John

    
    When racing, and I believe at Goodwood on test days, it is up to the
    overtaker to be 'safe' and the person being overtaken to behave in a
    predictable manner - ie, if you've got the line into a corner - keep
    it, don't panic and try to get out of the way, you may upset the
    balance of your car, and come off, and maybe take other people with
    you. (This was apparently the cause of the big 'pile up' in the kit car
    race at Silverstone at the end of last season. A novice driver
    approaching the bend suddenly realised that he had got an Ultima
    breathing down his exhaust pipe, and tried to get out of the way, in
    the bend - the resulting accident involved serious damage to 4 or 5
    cars, his included, - no personal injury though)  
    On a straight, keep to one side of the track, don't weave about, just 
    check behind before moving into position for the next corner.
                        

    
    Oh dear,
    
    Are the panels you mentioned damaged beyond repair?
    
    Mark
    
    PS Sorry we didn't make it to Brands, Mandy was still jet lagged!
    

    Unfortunate start to the season.
    
    I was spectating at Paddock, and saw your car travelling on top of
    another when I looked up at Druids.  It looked nasty.
    
    Glad to see no physical injury, though.
    
    I notice the other car was 'driveable' afterwards, do you know what
    sort of damage occurred to that car ?  I think the driver must have
    been bloody lucky not to have go hurt.
    
    How long to the next event, and how likely is the car to be ready ?
    
    
    I did stay to watch the re-started race.  The Ultima sure 'looks the
    business' - and sounds mean too.  The driver didn't really have to
    race at all, no competition in that event.  Do you know much about the
    Lancia-engined 23 ?  His car was certainly sick, but must go extremely
    quickly when working (if commentator was correct in saying that it was
    running something like a 'Group A rally engine - with turbo').
    
    J.R.

    What's a SOP? Or are we now into converting car racing into TLA-speak?
    

>    When racing, and I believe at Goodwood on test days, it is up to the
>    overtaker to be 'safe' and the person being overtaken to behave in a
>    predictable manner - ie, if you've got the line into a corner - keep
>    it, 

	Is predictable:
	- always move to the right if someome is approacing and wanting to
	overtake, as per the rules
	or
	- know the racing lines and sticking to them.

	I believe it is the first. After 10 laps, I couldn't have told you the
	racing line of any bend or straight, let alone actually take it!
	I also watched the others for quite a while before I went out, and I 
	can say that the majority on this test day couldn't either.
	
	These test days are done for people who want to test their kit 
	off-the-road, many of them have never raced, or been on a racetrack
	before. (like me).

	Assuming novices understand racing lines, and trying to predict what 
	they will do is Russian roulette......most novices will read the rules 
	and stick to them, more experienced drivers should also read the rules,
	and also be prepared for anything!

	Heather (who did overtake a few cars - on the straight with acres of
	         space).

	Have fun

As a guess:

		Standard Operating Procedures.

And I know nothing about racing.


Simon

    
    Quote from MN...
    
    "The red flag came out after a 3 car off at Druids in which one of the
    victims parked itself neatly atop another"
    
    Fame at last, eh Derek, and credit for your neat parking too! :^)
    
    Mark 

    
    I'd be interested in seeing your pictures, - since as the 'pit crew',
    and especially at Brands, I don't get to see any of the racing, (or
    incidents). I just have to wait on the pit wall with the stop-watch,
    thinking that it's taken him a b*^%@^ long time to get round!

    
    Thanks very much, Mr Vulture :-)

If you can find a scanner, how about scanning the pics in so use vultures
on the network can see them as well??  I have some scanned in pics of
my rally car I'll trade you!

Dave

    If anyone's offering, can they scan a pic of my Frogeye in?
    
    Laurie.

    Derek,
    	I hope all goes well with the 23's repair - I thought this might
    help.
    
    	Rik
    
         <<< HYDRA::DISK$USERPACK02:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DAVE_BARRY.NOTE;1 >>>
                       -<  Dave Barry - Noted humorist  >-
================================================================================
Note 50.0                          Car Repair                         No replies
JANUS::WALTON                                       120 lines  18-MAY-1984 00:07
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
				CAR REPAIR

    (from "The Taming of the Screw", ISBN 0-87857-484-0, by Dave Barry)


Most  comon  car  problems  are  caused by pets (see chart). The best way to
aviod  these  problems  is  preventive maintenenance, by which I mean always
checking  your car for pets before you start it. You should also change your
oil  all  the  time.  This  is what your top race car drivers recommend.  Of
course,  your  top race car driver also routinely drive into walls at speeds
upwards  of  180  miles an hour, so I don't know that we should accept their
opinions as gospel.

			Handy Troubleshooting Chart

		Problem		     Cause		    Solution

	Car emits foul odor	Cat sleeping on
	when    engine   is	engine			      None
	running

	Car makes horrible	Dog tied to rear	Turm radio on
	noise when moving	bumper

	Car will not start	Something wrong		Change oil
				with car
    
    

Handy car maintenance checklist
-------------------------------

ENGINE

   The  engine  is the large, filthy object under your hood, unless you live
   in  a  really  bad neighbourhood.  To understand the importance of proper
   maintenance,  let's  take  a look at what goes on inside your engine when
   you  turn the ignition key.  This will require you to cut open the engine
   with a blowtorch, but I think you'll be glad you did.

   When  you  turn  the  key, gasoline comes rushing out of the gas tank and
   electricity comes rushing out of the battery, and they meet in the engine
   where  they  explode  with a force that could easily reduce the engine to
   hunderds  of  pieces  of  red-hot  shrapnel  traveling at high speeds and
   capable  of  destroying  every living thing within 50 feet. But this will
   probably  not  occur  if  every  one of the 63,000 parts that make up the
   engine  is  working  perfectly,  which  is  why  you should maintain your
   engine.  Every six or seven thousand meters, open up the hood and inspect
   the  engine  closely.  It should have many random tubes and wires running
   off  toward  other  areas  of  the  car.  Newer  engines should also have
   oriental writing.
    
    

How to Change Your Oil

   1.  Start your car and allow it to warm up. 

   2.  Lie  on  your  back  and  inch along under the car until you locate a
   little boltlike object that you cannot remove without a wrench, then inch
   back out and locate a wrench.

   3.  Inch back under and rotate the boltlike object counterclock until oil
   starts  gushing  out,  just like in those old movies where John Wayne and
   his  side-kick  discover  oil  and  dance around, except whereas they are
   dancing  vertically  in  glee,  you will be dancing horizontally in pain,
   inasmuch  as  the  oil  has  been  heated to roughly 6,000 degrees by the
   engine.

   4.  Speaking  of  the  engine,  I forgot to tell you to turn it off. That
   should have been Step 2. I'll try to remember to correct that before this
   article  goes  to the printer, so as to avoid a lot of unnecessary engine
   damage and death.

   5.  Get  some oil and pour it into an orifice in the engine until you see
   little  rivulets of oil running across the driveway because you forgot to
   put  the  little bolt back into the engine, which I suppose I should have
   told  you  to  do  back  in  Step 3, which will be Step 4 once I move the
   current  Step  4  to  Step 2, where it belongs, but frankly, I'm tired of
   having to think of every little detail for you.
    
    

TRANSMISSION.

   The truth is, there is nothing you can do about your transmission. Nobody
   knows  how  transmissions  work,  or even where they come from. They just
   arrive at car factories in unmarked crates, and the workers put them into
   the  cars.  Many  people believe transmissions are created by beings from
   other  solar  systems.  There  is evidence to support this theory, namely
   transmission  manuals,  which contain bizarre diagrams and deranged alien
   commands  such  as: "Using a 6.57 reduction-ended canister wrench, rotate
   the debenture nut 6 degrees centigrade, taking care not to disenfranchise
   the gesticulation valve."

   So  if  something  goes wrong with your transmission, your best bet is to
   just give your car to the poor and claim a tax deduction.
    
    

TYRES

   Tyres  are extremely important, for without them the tyre industry, as we
   now  know  it,  would  cease  to  exist.  You  should  inspect your tyres
   frequently  for  signs of tread and obscure little letters and numbers on
   the  sides,  which  represent significant events in the lives of the tyre
   factory  employees.  For example, A78-13 means "All 78 of us tyre factory
   employees  went  out  and got really drunk last night, so maybe 13 of the
   tyres we make today will be any good."
    
    

EXTERIOR

   Your  car's  exterior  takes a real beating especially during the summer.
   Hour  after hour, day after day, month after month, the sun beats down on
   your  car  with  harmful rays that can fade the paint and kill you if you
   spend  any  time outside trying to do anything about it.  So to hell with
   the exterior.
    
    

EXHAUST SYSTEM

   This is located under the car, smeared with road kills. From time to time
   you should hose it down or drive briskly through a wading pool.

    
    Any offers for several litres of slightly used (30ish miles?) of 
    Mobil 1!   :-) 
    
     I supose I could change the oil in the bike.....

    Mobil 1 is too thin for bikes...... 
    
    	Better of selling or swapping for castrol syntron x 
    
    
    
    	By the way No thanks.....
    
    
    	Garry

    Never mind, Derek, think of all the money you'll be saving by not
    racing. Give you a chance to catch up on all the DIY jobs that have
    been queueing up while you get the race car ready for this season's
    crashes........;-)

    Derek,
    
    
    	Must be fame this time ......
    
    
    	The hallowed pages of Autosport.
    
    
    
    	I can't believe that the picture on the inside back page of
    	autosport this week is not you......   A white noble 23 No. 38
    	with the driver side wheels up on the driver side of a yellow
    	caterham . The driver in the noble is wearing red overalls.....
    
    
    	Sound familiar????????????
    	
    	Garry
    
    
    

    
    I was told last night that the incident was also shown on SKY TV. We're
    hoping that this 'friend of a friend' has it on video! I'd like to see
    what happened - since as 'pit crew' my view of the track is very
    limited at Brands!

	If we all saw the video we could have a good, old fashioned,
	F1 type "whose fault it was debate".

	Incidentally Swindon is not on the far edge of the earths crust,
	but a little over 20 miles of Mway from Newbury, so perhaps this
	won't be so bad after all.

	-John

           <<< Note 576.326 by HAMPS::LINCOLN_J "Where sheep dare" >>>
                    -< Wanna be famous? - Have an accident >-

>	Incidentally Swindon is not on the far edge of the earths crust,
>	but a little over 20 miles of Mway from Newbury, so perhaps this
>	won't be so bad after all.

24 miles, door-to-door in 35 mins (off peak traffic)

    <<< Note 576.328 by VANTEN::MITCHELLD "I dont brake for Westfields!" >>>
                                     -< y >-

>    1.5 hours Door to door in the peak!
    
>    Since getting on and off the M-way are the problem!


Eh?, perhaps we have a different idea of peak times... I never have
a problem with joining/leaving the motorway, and even on Fridays
at peak times an hour is the most I would expect

    
    Carry on like this, Derek, and we'll be retitling this topic!
    
    I hope there's nothing crucial damaged in the engine. When's the next
    race?
    
    Mark

    
    After Lydden is Pembrey on 9th/10th June..........
    
    Elaine (exhausted pit crew) 

    Derek - If you know where you went wrong at Sears and the Bomb Hole -
    does that mean you sussed out braking into the Esses and full
    acceleration out of it without hitting the bridge ???
    
    ...... you must be very, very, very brave
    
    going through there a couple of years ago with Chris Goodwin in the
    School XR finally convinced me that I don't have what it takes ....
    
    Mark II
    

	How Alan and the NG TC V8 - 3.9 is getting on................


	We went to Ocean Village to see the sprint, and Alan came first in
	his class. The curbs are VERY high, and caught a few people out.
	The bumps on the corner, caught Alan out in his practice lap - he 
	managed to go off, turn 180%, and contnue on his way!

	Girston Down, another outing on Sunday, where Alan managed 2nd in class.
	He's been invited to Ringwood in September on these two performances.

	Both nice days out, with some crazy people driving, I'm sure they must 
	pay them extra for "added entertainment".


	Heather

    
    What's happening in Ringwood then?
    
    Mark

    
    Bad luck with the damage, Derek, you seem to be pretty unlucky at the
    moment.
    
    Still, 10th out of 19th on the grid sounds ok to me.
    
    Mark

    Lydden next Saturday eh? Give a wave to the timekeepers - we'll be
    there! Of course, for a consideration..............
    
    
    What was that about pole position? :-)
    
    Paul

    Was it a trip on the grass again or did you finish????
    
    
    		Garry
    

	You didn't happen to notice a blue sylva clubman (aka Phoenix)
	anywhere did you?

    
    Out of interest, Derek, what speed were you seeing through Corum,
    and at the end of the Cabbage patch straight (before the Esses).
    Do you lift/brake for the bomb hole, and do you treat the long
    right hander after the pits as a single or double apex?
    
    William.

	Can't remember the number, but the name's Steve Hampshire (dark
	curly hair, mustach, around 5'9" tall, slight podge, blue 
	overalls).

	Dave

	PS his tow barge is a Citroen (large white estate)

	Ah ha! I'll give him a call and find out what his plans are...

	What are the remaining race locations and dates for the rest of
	the year?

	Dave

  >>
	What are the remaining race locations and dates for the rest of
	the year?
  >>
    
        Pembrey -     21st and 22nd Sept
        Cadwell       5th October (Sat)
        Snetterton -  12th October (6 hour relay race)
        Oulton Park - 19th October (Sat)
        Mallory     - 27th October
    
    
        A busy next few weeks!!!!!!!!!  

	Hi Elaine,

	When you and Derek go to meetings are the Ratrace Monoposto and 
	Monoposto Group A boys always there also?

	I ask as I have started to help a guy who works in Winnersh (WLC)
	who runs in the Ratrace mono series, and I was there at Snetterton
	a couple of weekends back.

	You may of recocnised there car ... it was the blue and yellow Agent
	running on three cylinders 8^(  ... flipping lead dropped off!

	Steve

    >>
    
	When you and Derek go to meetings are the Ratrace Monoposto and 
	Monoposto Group A boys always there also?
    >>
    
        The 'program' varies, there are quite often Monoposto races on 
        the same days. I'm not sure if they are on this coming weekend...
    
    >>
	You may of recocnised there car ... it was the blue and yellow Agent
	running on three cylinders 8^(  ... flipping lead dropped off!
    >>
        I'm afraid we don't usually get much time to watch the other races,
        although we did see the Farraris this time! 
        
        I sympahthise with the 'lead dropping off' problem........
        where's your next race?
    
     
     

 Hope to fix mysterious oil leak by then.

 Doesn't lose any oil fom the tank, but the back of the car is
 dripping with oil!

Steve

    
    Nope not gear box.
    
    Yup it is a Kent with a side dry sump pump, and the Catch tank was
    pretty full though not to the max mark.
    
    Steve

    
    Hi All,
    
      Went to see the hilclimbing just south of Alton including the pre 65
    class and have decided to run the Fairthorpe in it next year. I think I
    could probably give an A40 and a Frogeye a run for their money.
    
     I've sent off for my license and the blue book. I'm slightly concerned
    that the car has to have a fireproof bulkhead. My car has a completely
    fibreglass bulkhead with all sorts of holes for the speedo, steering,
    accelerator, wiring through into the interior. Do I just seal all the
    holes or should I start thinking about an alloy bulkhead ??
    
     Any clues on how to find out about the different hillclimbing classes.
    Do I join BARC or the Hillclimb and Sprint Association ?? 
    
     Is there anywhere I can test the car as it isn't road legal ??
    
     As an aside there was a purple NG there which even "her indoors"
    admired !!
    
                       Chris.
     

    
    Was that this weekend? Too late for me to visit now if it was. :^(
    
    The hillclimb I saw at Rotherfield park was run by the Farnborough &
    District MC, so joining them sounds like a good way to find out a lot
    more about hillclimbing.
    
    Mark

    
    Yup, Rotherfield Park was the venue the weekend before last. It was a
    proper event with a good selection of cars. 
    
    Proper timing gear, marshalls, list of classses and tannoy time
    announcement. I was quite impressed. However the top end cars like the
    ex F3000 type cars wern't present.
    
    The only reason I found out about it was I drove past it on the way to
    the ferry at Portsmouth a few weeks before.
    
    I guess I could join the Farnborough club, but I wanted to avoid
    joining all sorts of clubs just to go hillclimbing.
    
    Guess I ought to stop pipe dreaming and get back to wiring the car ...
    
    Chris.
    
    p.s. I'm moving to DECpark in November so might get a chance to trailer
    it in one day. 

    
    Can you get that fixed before Saturday?
    
    Mark

    Sounds familiar...
    
    I'm still waiting for a new head from Caterham as mine has three
    visible cracks in it (hence pressurinsing the water jacket).
    
    Good luck with the fix
    Rob
    
    PS - do you use new head gaskets, or re-con the old ones?

    no

    
    Derek,
    
    I guess this weekend is off though?
    
    Mark

>     As an aside there was a purple NG there which even "her indoors"
>    admired !!
  
	Was it purple, or deep maroon???????????? 'cause Alan was their that 
	day in his.


	Heather

    re. .384
    
     Heather,
    
    Yup purply, maroony, burgundy, throbbly, dobbly. It's not often 
    'er indoors passes comment.
    
    Could Alan give me a few clues about the historic regs in return for
    beer ??
    
    Chris.

    
>    Could Alan give me a few clues about the historic regs in return for
>    beer ??
    
    Chris,
	Alan runs the Red Lion in Theale, so I'm not sure of the worth of
	a pint of beer to him!!!!!! He's always prepared to chat about
	cars though (as long as it's not to busy in the pub - Friday 
	lunchtimes is a no-no!)

	Heather

>>
	Saturday	CADWELL
	SATURDAY	SNETTERTON
	SATURDAY	OULTON PARK
	SUNDAY		Mallory

Isnt October busy?
>>
    
        Yes! I don't remember the mechanic contracting to do FOUR races in
        a month!

    
    Ah, isn't club racing great.
    
    "Don't protest, he's difficult to deal with"!!!!!
    
    Next you know, they'll impose a rule that only he's allowed to win
    for fear of upsetting him!!!
    
    Mark

Are your ribs feeling less painful now, Derek ?

	Obviously a more civilised affair than kit car racing...

	Dave

    
    It was a very different atmosphere from the usual races we do, and
    although 6 hours sounds a long time to be watching cars going round and
    round, it didn't seem a long time, since the time between Derek's two 
    'stints' was taken up removing and trying to repair the alternator,
    (then having to replace it - still broken!)  Also the last half hour
    was spent nervously watching for our 'last man' in case he decided that
    he had got to come in - or in case he just didn't appear! It was a very
    close finish - since the 2nd and third in class did the same number of
    laps, and it was decided on who crossed the finish line first!
    
    Elaine   

    
    Derek forgot to mention the alternator re-build between practice and
    race! Alternators just don't seem able to survive the high revs and
    vibrations. Our repair should be much stronger than the original - so
    hopefully will hold together for a few more races.
    
    Elaine

    
    For the car to handle properly, the total weight of the car should be
    evenly distributed between each corner - so, by 'weighing' each corner,
    and adjusting the springs you can even it out. This requires either:- 
    
     1) a corner weight guage - expensive, and requires a large amount of flat
    space to use it
    
     2) eight sets of bathroom scales - also not cheap - but can be done in
    the confines of your own single garage!
    
     An accomplice is also required - as the 'driver' weight!
    
     Elaine

    Re .last few
    
    I dont think I understand this. I would not dispute that adjusting the
    spring rate or the axis of the springs would have a beneficial effect
    on the suspension, but can you adjust the amount of weight carried by
    the wheels without moving the wheels relative to the C of G ? Can you
    change the balance from say 55% on the front wheels to 50% ?
    
    Andrew

    Re. corner weights et al
    
    
    If interested in this sort of information, you may wish to read :-
    
    	The Race and Rally Car Source Book
    
    It explains how one might manufacture a race car, of either monocoque
    or spaceframe construction.  Includes technical data on a large variety
    of competition cars, from Escort rally cars to F1 cars (of years gone by).
    
    I've got it at home, I think it's written by Allan Stanniforth.
    
    J.R.

  Can you alter the pulley sizes for the alternator so it doesn't keep
  getting fried by the sustained high revs you're using on the circuits?
  
  Dave

    If loctite is not good enough, how about bearing lock. That maybe a bit
    over the top for some screws/bolts but at least they won't come undone 
    in a hurry.
    
    
    Garry

	The friend that is racing a Sylva Clubman (1600 FIAT TC) and
	he's just got the latest rule set (I can't remember which set of
	rules that is, but he races in the same races as Derek).  The
	rules have just changed.  For one, slicks are now allowed and the
	minimum ride hight is down to 4cm, any comments Derek?

	Dave

    
    Derek is home ill at the moment, but we have received our proposed
    rule changes for '93 - and are not amused! The 'race' series is
    basically going to get very expensive, and will end any pretence to be
    for _road_ kit cars, (although the base car must be a recognised kit car)
    the restricted will stay as it is. 
    
    We are going to the formula meeting on 1st December - to protest, on
    grounds of safety if nothing else! Road-going kit cars do not have
    chassis designed to take the incredible increse in force which would be
    put on them using wide (12"?) slicks!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Also, for most of the current racers in this series would not have the
    money to produce the type of car necessary to be competitive under
    these rules, and wouldn't be eligible for the restricted race. The
    meeting next month should be quite interesting.....
    
    

    
    Elaine better ask for a raise then! :^)
    
    No, seriously, this seems like a crazy move (especially in the current
    financial climate - why not allow sponsorship, but LIMIT mods?). I'd
    agree with Derek and Elaine's comments. The 23 may be a great road
    car, but it's not a Group C car and with these new rules there won't be 
    MUCH difference between one of these cars and a Group 6 car (the
    predecessor of Group C).
    
    Who is behind the new rules? Obviously the organising body has
    introduced them, but who put them forward in the first place?
    
    Mark

>>    MUCH difference between one of these cars and a Group 6 car (the
>>    predecessor of Group C).
    
    With the demise of Group C, perhaps this is the championship into
    which these manufacturers will now move ?     ;-)
    
    
    Seriously though, this does seem to be a set of rules in which money
    is an absolute necessity to do well.  Is there any other championship,
    or race series, in which kit cars can compete successfully ?
    
    J.R.

Having raced on both, slicks are MUCH more fun! It takes quite a bit
of weight and/or horsepower to warm up a tire that size though. Your
car is pretty light isn't it? I think you'd have a hard time heating
up a 12" front tire. 

I've seen a bunch of 914's in the Porsche Club tear their chassis with
slicks (my brother included). Usually the chassis are rusty and the
slicks are too much for them. The chassis tears where the rear
trailing arms mount. Most of them only use about 6" slicks too. 

But yes, all of those rules add up to real money.

    
    We are going to the fornula discussion on Sunday (Dave, is your friend
    going to be there?) Derek has also been in touch with Lee Noble,
    (designer of the 23, and the Ultimas, amoungst other things) and he
    is going to go along to protest some of the proposals.  
    
    What we can't understand, is why the 750 club have accepted these
    proposals - as we don't know many people who are currently racing who
    will be able to afford to go with the new rules. To me it seems like
    the 750 club is getting way out of it's depth! If they're not careful
    they are going to end up with only the restricted cars (which will turn
    into almost a one-make series - the Sylva Phoenix) - or maybe that is
    thier real intention........
     

Maybe a silly question but if they go ahead, how about a break away kit car
series?

/Dave.

    
    re a breakaway series ... the problem with this is you need some sort
    of backing from major company/ club, because to race, you need track
    time, and to get track time you need influence! I would think it would
    be near impossible for a group of drivers to be able to run anything,
    due to insurance, marshals etc

re.427:

Is that all you need? Better get cracking!

/Dave.

    
    Not sure if -1 was serious - but , no - that is not all you need!
    Organising/running 'a race' requires a bit more than my reply suggested,
    and the 750mc (who run the kit car races) employs several full time
    staff to achieve what it does. First of all they have to negotiate with
    all the circuits to get a race days - for which they have to pay....
    they then have to organise a race program - which involves bartering
    with other race organising clubs/organisations (such as BARC) ie you
    can race some of your cars on this circuit on 'our' day, if we can have
    some races on another date, on 'your' day. From what I've heard about
    these negotiations, the politics involved in this process is horendous!
    Multiply this by the number of different clubs/circuits/types of
    race/number of events for each type of car per year etc, and you can
    see that this takes time... :-) 
    
    
    The organising club will
    have to get an RACMSA permit for the race - RAC officials will have to
    be approached, and all other oficials, such as Clark of the Course,
    Time Keepers, Scrutineers etc will have to be found, and the club will
    have to have a band of people it can call on who will be the marshalls
    for any event. A race cannot be held if there are insufficient
    marshalls, oh, and I forgot, the club must also be able to call upon
    the required medical/rescue personel (St John's Ambulance, and
    specially equiped fire/rescue vehicles)  + 'ordinary' recovery
    vehicles, such as break-down wagons, and Landys.
    
    I think I'll stop there......

...approach another club?

/Dave.

	My friend (Steve Hampshire), is going along on Sunday to complain.
	By the way, his car is a Sylva Clubman (now known as Phoenix), so a 
	one make series would suit him!

	Dave

    
    MN have a best and worst list this year, and I'm sorry to recount 
    that Group K Open has the dubious honour of being classed as joint
    dullest racing with Formula Forward (I think).
    
    Obviously they were watching the front of the race and not Derek!
    
    Mark

>>COs I wont be doing it!
    
    Have you found any other class where you could compete ?
    
    Will you give up on competition altogether (I should hope not) ?
    
    What about sprints and hillclimbs, a possible alternative ?
    
    
    Don't know if you get CCC, but the latest issue has a write-up on
    Bob Light's Ultima.  A few things that I picked out, based on the
    sort of comments that you've made about the race class :-
    
    	The bodywork has a built-in rear spoiler, since the regs don't
    	allow for separate spoilers.
    
    Does the Ultima kit normally have this spoiler, or is it an addition
    to this version ?  If the former, it goes to show that the kit was built
    for the race series.  Not really the idea of the series is it ?
    
    	The gearbox (transaxle) is a ZF unit from a Pantera.
    
    I wouldn't expect this to be cheap (but that isn't a requirement).
    
    	It has trouble putting the power down on the road tyres used.
    
    So, get the regs changed to allow for slicks...
    
    
    I am impressed with the vehicle, but I can see how this particular
    car doesn't really fit in with what I would expect to find in a
    race series for 'kit cars'.  When you consider that the Ultima is
    so much faster than the other competitors, then that shows up
    the 'irregularity' of the regulations.
    
    Perhaps you might want to write to CCC with your comments on the
    race series, they supposedly are in favour of people 'racing their
    road cars'.  In that case, they should see the difference between
    your endeavours in the championship as against those of Mr Light.
    
    They may at least feature your vehicle in the mag, especially if you
    can give them a few stories from your racing year...
    
    J.R.

    I have recently heard of a case of a stolen Caterham BDA. The owner had
    it stolen while parked in a hotel car park.
    
    He had previously used the car in sprint events and it had won several.
    
    While being interviewed by the Insurance company he proudly showed them
    his cups and photographs.
    
    The upshot is that they are not going to pay him out , because on his
    proposal form he did not declare that he would be using the vehicle for
    that purpose.
    
    Even though he had cover seperatly for third party risk while
    sprinting, he invalidated his normal road insurance!
    
    Anyone got any comments on this?

    Another example of insurance companies trying to do anything to avoid
    paying out on a  claim.  B'stards, the lot of 'em.
    
    Next, I can imagine them refusing to pay out on a stolen car because
    the owner had taken it to spectate at some event or another, and had
    not let them know about it beforehand...
    
    I guess that this is when the insurance ombudsman (who ?) should
    be contacted.  If the owner of the vehicle can claim that using the
    car in competition does not inscrease the risk to his insurers, then
    they should pay up.  Of course, with the driver being successful,
    they may well argue that this made the car more of a target for theft.
    
    J.R.

>>ascertain.  It has no relavence to theft risk. 
    
    I can see how an insurance company would claim that a vehicle is more
    likely to be targeted for theft if it has been seen to be 'a winner'.
    
    I don't agree that this would be a cause for increased premiums,
    nor that it can be a valid reason to refuse to pay out, especially
    when you consider how much they are likely to have loaded the
    premiums on this sort of vehicle anyway...
    
    Of course, they are all b'stards in motor insurance, since they
    have got a pretty good captive market.
    
    J.R.

Isn't this just a case of giving a false answer to a question on the
proposal form.

From memory, all insurance proposal forms ask if the vehicle is going
to be raced or rallied. If you answer NO, and then do so, the insurance
is invalid ... illegal declaration. 

Simple. Insurance companies are "b*stards", but they are so by sticking
to the letter of the contract you have with them. The spirit of the
contract is meaningless ...

    
    The proposal form for the 23 did not ask anything about use - (except
    the normal business use question) And since the only insurance we were
    asking for was for when it was being used/parked on the road, we just
    ticked the 'social/domestic/pleasure' box! (But we did have to go into
    full detail of engine mods etc... :-)   )

    This was done through a broker that specialises in 'abnormal' vehicles,
    so maybe they only deal with insurance companies that 'play fair' with
    these sort of things.....
    
    Elaine

    
    Although most insurance specifically EXCLUDES racing, etc I've never 
    known an insurance policy to be voided if you do indulge in such activities.
    
    Sounds like a con to me.
    
    Mark

The 'play fair' aspect is quite interesting. Have you ever tried to get
a copy of the exact insurance details before you take the policy ??? I
have a few times, and have always been told that they don't have one
available at the time etc etc.

Most insurance brokers just enter the details, do a quick data base
search and come up with the best price. What they seem to imply is
that all policies are the same, and offer the same level of cover. 

I suepct that this just isn't the case, and it is probably worth trying
to get details of just exactly what you are covered for ASAP !!! In some
cases I've had to wait up to ten months to get to see the policy documents !!!

    
    I know that our brokers know that we race - and that when we had a
    claim (for a fire in the engine) there was no problem at all - we had
    the money within a month of putting in the full claim - (ie for parts,
    and an allowance for labour, since we did the work ourselves). The
    insurance assessor came to look at the car, and was asking about our
    racing, but since the fire was an 'on road' incident, and it was
    obvious that the car was well maintained, and to a high spec. he was
    happy to recommend payment of the claim.

    I believe that the "get out" for the insurance companies is that the
    proposal form didnt stipulate that the car would be used for
    competition.
    
    Other areas they are interested in are accident records and driving
    offences. If you havent declared them then that will be another "get
    out".
    
    
    The fact that the car was used in competition must be considered to
    make it a higher risk because :
           1. Damage occurring on the track might be claimed to have been
    done on the road.
    
           2. High profile attained amongst the car thieving fraternty.
    
           3. Racing drivers make poor road drivers.
    
    
    The moral of the story is tell your insurance company in writing what
    your use of the vehicle is.
    
    

    
    
    
    
    I think you are making a lot of assumtions here - the same as the
    insurance companies!
    
    >>
           1. Damage occurring on the track might be claimed to have been
    done on the road.
    >>
        Damage to a car usually involves a third party - either in the form
    of another vehicle, or damage to property. The insurance co. would need 
    evidence of this damage. It would take quite a lot of doing to get all 
    evidence to tie up with the damage to your vehicle if this had occurred
    on the race track!
    
   >>
           2. High profile attained amongst the car thieving fraternty.
   >>
     Many of the road/race cars would not have a ready market should they
     be stolen! They are too easily recognised. Caterhams/7's although
     numerous are still 'hand made' and so are recognisable. If the cars
     were stripped for parts - you  may be able to make some money, but 
     people who want to race are going to be wary of these sort of parts,
    just because they want to know the history, for the sake of
    reliability. 
    
    >>
           3. Racing drivers make poor road drivers.
    >>
       On what do you base this? Most people who race cars, very quickly
    learn the limits of their vehicles, and how to react to the unexpected!
    Yes, many of the techniques used on the race track are inappropriate
    for road use _BUT_ many things, such as car control/braking/anticipation
    and an appreciation of the 'mechanics' of driving will _improve_ road
    skills. 
    
    Our insurance policy is not 'loaded' because of an involvement in motor
    sport. 
    
    
    

    
    Sorry,
         Think I would have to agree with the generalisations.
    
         >> Claiming "race" damage as "road" damage. <<
    
            Pretty easy for quite a few accident types,M-Way ARMCO
            is quite similar to racetrack ARMCO and a front/rear 
            end shunt could easily be passed off as an "off" on 
            public roads with no other drivers involved.
    
         >> Race cars receiving higher esteem amongst burglars <<
    
            A car with a proven "fast" engine I think would be
            looked on as "rich pickings".
    
    
         >> Racing drivers being bad road drivers  <<
    
            An assumption based I think on ones own experiences.
            Take all the people you know personally who are involved 
            in Motorsport.How many are complete nutters on the road ??
            Quite a few I find....!!!
          

    
    >> 
            Pretty easy for quite a few accident types,M-Way ARMCO
            is quite similar to racetrack ARMCO and a front/rear 
            end shunt could easily be passed off as an "off" on 
            public roads with no other drivers involved.
    >>
            This is what claims assessors are for.... they are trained in 
            looking at accident damage - and weighing up if the damage is
            consistent with what you say happened, and are quite likely to 
            want to visit the scene of the 'accident' - to look for the
            dent in the red tree which left paint on your car! 
            I'm not saying that some people wouldn't try
            it on - but one of the things that racers have to accept is
            that the car _will_ get some damage sometime. If you don't
            accept that, then you can't race. No insurance company is going
            to accept three or four claims a year for accidents not
            involving any other road user/property and with no witnesses!   
    
                                                                                     A car with a proven "fast" engine I think would be
    >>        looked on as "rich pickings".
    
            An engine is only part of what makes a car 'fast'. Suspension
            set-up etc also have a lot to do with it, (as does the driver!)
            so a fast engine it's own is not as attractive as you make it
            sound, and any of these types of car complete is unique, and
            therefor recognisable.
    
         >> Racing drivers being bad road drivers  <<
    
            Yes, my statement is based on personal experience. Some of them
            drive faster and more aggressively than many other road users,
            but this (open rathole again) does not make them more
            dangerous in itself - since they know the limit of the car, and
            how to use the steering wheel and the brakes. I know more
            'nutters' who like to think they are racing drivers, just 'cos
           they have a 'fast' car.
    

    
    
    >>These noters are PAKORA::DMCGREGOR, SEDSWS::BOND are examples
      of RACists.<<
    
      I fail to connect anything that I said with your new word "RACist"
      I know you`re trying to use the word in as many topics as possible
      but don`t see it`s relevance here.
      PAKORA::DMCGREGOR held an RAC Motorsport licence for 4 years if
      that`s of any interest.
    
    
    
    >>They assume a car is valuable cos it`s raced<<
    
      Do I ??????  Putting words into peoples mouths here I think.
    
    >>Racing drivers are nutters on the road?Sorry you are confusing would
      be racing drivers with the real thing.<<
    
      What I said was that "in my experience" racing drivers were 
      ,in the most,complete nutters on the road.I realise you are a 
      "racing driver" and therefore know a lot more "racing drivers"
      than a mere mortal like myself but the ones I do know are as I 
      said "nutters on the road". Although I think thay would be a little
      put out at being called "would-be" racing drivers! 
    
    
     >> You might have been......perceptions not reality <<
    
     Words in mouths again here I think.
    
    
     >> You are confusing emotion with actual risk <<
    
     You`ve totally lost me here..........8*)
    
                                             Doogz

    Re .441 - insurance proposal forms
    
    I do not remember ever seeing a question on an insurance proposal
    form which asked if the vehicle was intended to be used in competition...
    
    
    >>They assume a car is valuable cos it`s raced<<
    
    In this case, I would view it that a car is not more valuable in
    monetary terms (for theft and subsequent resale), but of more interest
    to the 'joy-riding' fraternity.  I still don't think this would be of
    a noticeable difference in terms of insurance loading, since higher
    performance cars attract higher premiums for various reasons already.
    
    J.R.

    Anyone know if and when there is going to be a sprint this year along
    the seafront at Brighton.
    
    I remember seeing it on Top Gear a few years ago and it looked
    interesting.

    
    Come on Derek (or Elaine),
    
    Give us an update on the season so far...
    
    Mark

	I didn't think that it had started yet.  Isn't the first race in
	a couple of weeks time?

	Dave

	Girston Hillclimb over the weekend, I'll get some results tonight

	Heather

    
    I'm suprised that hillclimbing rules are that strict, many cars have
    no rollbars and the drivers have sleeveless shirts and shorts on!
    
    Mark
    
    PS Still interested in the GRP class!

    
    In reply to a few notes back - we've both been rather busy so haven't
    had time to write an update...
    
    We've already done two races this year, not very successfully, but
    hopefully all will be sorted out for Easter Sunday (I think) for the
    race at Snetterton. We've had to but a new silencer on to meet the
    noise regs, and Derek has been busy building spoilers for the front and
    rear - to improve road holding. The Mark I spoiler was dented by a
    Mallard last race (I know it was wet - but ducks on the circuit!......)
    Hopefully this weekend will be a bit dryer!
    
    re the sprinting. The regs are not as stringent as for racing - and
    quite a lot of the safety equipment is advised rather than compulsory,
    although some form of fire-proof clothing is now compulsory. If anyone
    is interested I've got a copy of the "Blue Book" with me if they want
    to come and have a look! 

	Alan was 3rd in his class, he was a bit dissapointed, and said he
	really wasn't concentrating.........

	Re: hillclimbs and rules.

	You do need a roll-bar - unless the car is a classic over a certain age,
	- can't remember what age.

	You do need a helmet

	You have to have a key to disconnect the battery from outside

	You have to wear flameproof (or flame-retardent) overalls

	There are loads more - but these are the ones that spring to mind from
	our orriginal look at it, when we were diciding whether to race our
	NG 3.5 V8.

	If anyone is interested, I could get a copy of the rules.

	Heather

    
    Well I finally made it to Gurtston on Sunday. The good news was we
    passed scrutineering. Fortunately the scrutineer raced a Morgan so
    accepted that some cars are a little more agricultural than others.
    
    My brother and I had dual entered it so we got the four practice runs
    in. Our times .... hovering around 60 seconds. Definately something
    amiss with the poor thing... It handled OK but had absolutely no
    power. It lost oil pressure fast and we had to withdraw it after
    we both put in one timed run.
    
    The winter will be taken up with building up a new gearbox with
    closer ratios as well a 1300cc engine.
    
    Chris.

	Welcome back Elaine. Any chance of a brief update on the last
	3 years?

	-John

    A fellow kit car owner here in Reading?
    
    Wow! And I leave next week, there's no justice!
    
    You didn't replace Toastie, did you, Elaine?
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    Re .463
    
    Been quiet then, eh?
    
    Mark

The car has been in bits for the last 18 months or so - awaiting a rebuild.

At the end of the season before last(?) at the last meeting at Silverstone,
Derek managed to spin at Copse - and then another Noble 23 T-boned him!  Derek
suffered a bit of concussion ( but the other brain cell was Ok :-)  ) but the
car had a bit more damage!  The outer chassis rail was pushed in to meet the
inner one - and obviously other things had to distort to accommodate this!

We stripped the car down (hence all the bits in the shed, and the engine in the
dining room, and the bodywork on a friends patio!)  and Derek fixed the chassis,
then a bit of a fire in the garage slowed things down. The garage was sorted out
but the enthusiasm seemed to wain a bit, especially as there are so few people
left racing in the Supersports series, it's not even certain that there will be
a series to return to.   

Anyway - work starts on it after our holiday next month so I am reliably
informed ...... :-) 

  

>> You didn't replace Toastie, did you, Elaine

 >>   Cheers,
 >>   Dan

    ?????? wot?  I'm confused.......

    S'okay, sorry. I got the impression you'd just arrived (back) at IOSG?
    Well, a friend of a friend (Chris Tostevin-Hall) has just left....
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    
    I understand now...
    
    PS Sorry about the empty notes - I was trying to use the windows
    interface - I think I'll stay a Ludite and use the 'old fashioned'
    notes! :-)

Windows is for wimps, anyway!

Chris.